Did Luffy Reach Yonko Level TOO FAST?

[@dee-wreck]

When Luffy gives his sandals to a child and 10 years later we have the Flipflop Pirates.

[@lester3032]

XD

[@a_jerry808]

La Chankla Pirates☠

[@BETC0DE]

😂😂😂😂

[@dannymaurice5543]

And I mean this sincerely. I would read this unironically

[@weedincoconut177]

LMFOA

[@rhuanv]

Luffy spent 10 years training his body before the start of the series, then tempered his will at the grand line, then trained haki for two years, and now finished tempering his will by losing multiple times and getting more and more serious about his goals. Haki is willpower, and luffy is the goat in that.

[@mista2738]

Ong we on the same page. I think luffy might actually almost kill kaido when he wins.

[@Vraii25]

Yeah, I think learning haki is a x^2 curve... after a user passes a barrier then it just goes up really fast.

[@fd1320]

Exactly my thoughts. Throughout the story it was always stated that haki corresponds to willpower and especially conquerors haki which dominates other wills has a strong relation to the mind state of the user. So when the chapter came out where ruffy "learned the trick" to coat his attacks with conquerors haki I told my friends it's over now who can beat him now cuz his attacks would literally be as strong as his will and that's something ruffy stands on top with his ambition to be the pirate king.

[@EarlobeJuice]

Finally someone who breaks it down. Harp literally trained the fuck out of Luffy prior to him sailing the seas combining that to what he learned on his journey during the grand line and the two year time-skip training with Rayleigh, his power ups don’t seem forced at all!

[@JayB-hz8rh]

@@EarlobeJuice I’m okay with luffys power up you guys are reaching hard ash, Garp training has nothing to do with current luffys strength obviously he started out a beast from the jump But garp training didn’t teach Luffy anything to push him to this level. Luffy got to this lvl Via plot and Haki bloom

[@HungTruongHudson]

I can see Oda, in the final war, putting Buggy in a situation where he supposedly “split the sky” and on-lookers labeling him as a yonko 😂

[@erickramirez65]

bara bara awakening :o

[@marocat4749]

Oda if he reads that comment, you know too much

[@nikcantsnipe]

That would be hilarious and I can almost see it.

[@bulletproofman323]

I agree😂

[@sadaqat1851]

I am sorry but Buggy vs Usupp will definitely not just split the skys but will split the seas

[@RandomPerson-bc6td]

People are forgetting that simply having Conqueror's Haki is already an op thing. It's not something you have to train for; you just have it naturally and you have to unlock it. When you think of it that way, you realize how much of a power-up learning the advanced version is. Another commenter noted that Luffy has always been pretty excellent at observing his enemies and then finding either a counter or way to duplicate their abilities. Battling two Yonkos upfront gave him the opportunity to figure out their ability making him unlock advanced. It's also important to keep in mind that advanced Conqueror's Haki and advanced Armament had the same concept. Luffy spent weeks training his armament which made it easier for him to learn Conqueror's Haki. I think so many people were fixated on the idea that Luffy would learn it in Elbaf that Luffy unlocking it in Wano definitely caught them off guard.

[@mrwick_1948]

You bring up some good points

[@RADAHN01]

beautiful explanation i can relate to most of the points made

[@DhirC35]

Thank you

[@sakura5sango6]

Exactly to everything, but I just want to focus on your excellent point about how Luffy learsn during difficult battles. His way of adaptation is his own kind of intelligence, actually. Very important matter for the MC of this series since the start!

[@Shark-hn4mv]

Terrible argument and very naive comment responses. The fact of the matter is: Forget Haki for a sec. Physically, Luffy was shown to be NOWHERE near the raw strengths of Big Mom and Kaido. And not only do they completely outclass Luffy in raw physical strength, they too have the very Haki that everyone says makes sense to put Luffy on "Yonko level." Therefore, Big Mom and Kaido's usage of that very same Haki should put them far beyond someone they should still already be outclassing physically. Luffy previously got swatted away by a nerfed Big Mom in Udon, despite him using Haki while she wasn't. There were no explanations given or even implied for how this magically became a non-factor. And there's no rational defense for this. It remains a continuity issue/plot hole.

[@suspiciousdoge9yand104]

When Luffy first clashed with Ulti and Page One he stated himself that he was “downplaying them”. So the gap between Luffy and Kaido isn’t much about physical strength powerscale. It’s the technique used. Conqueror’s coating in this case, is implied to be one of the requirements to fight properly with Yonkos. Kaido has both technique and experience wielding it.

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Yeah a unique technique he just figured out and started using

[@brunoherrera2574]

When he first clashed Ulti only. Not Page One. Then he proceeds to fight them both and still had to be saved by Yamato otherwise he would need G4 and would run out of haki and die

[@sakura5sango6]

Yeah, I wanted Morj to also clear up that he was probably not going at full against Ulti, preparing himself for the real fight against Kaido (I say "probably" because I don't remember if this was especifically the case, but I agree!).

[@sakura5sango6]

@@brunoherrera2574 That's because she took him with the guard down and was on a rampage for his "dear Pay-tan", even stronger characters can be defeated like that just because a mistake or a "emotional boost" from the enemy, so to say xD

[@royalfun1031]

@@sakura5sango6 Waste of energy

[@larsdragerl]

For me: Strength (in other Haki, physical strength and devil fruit proficiency) is mostly training. I think Conquerors Haki is a manifestation of Will and Ambition, both are things Luffy has proven since chapter 1. Within that logic it makes sense to me that Luffy doesnt need as much training in the traditional sense, but only a base training to understand the concept and mostly an extremely determined mind.

[@AdityaPalange]

Good one..... Zoro is same too.....

[@bigt100]

Plus hes been learning the flow of haki all he got do is substitute arnament with conquerors

[@bigt100]

@@AdityaPalange u think he might get the gist of it while fighting queen

[@AdityaPalange]

@@bigt100 it's king..... But he will get it.... And i wanna know zoros reaction after hearing about ushimaru too.....

[@ajdoku865]

The thing is, by overcome his challenges, he indirectly trains/grows his conquerors spirit, like Rayleigh said. The whole story he's basically been putting himself in the most difficult 'spirit' building situations, even more so post-TS. You can see the growth by looking at the scale/impact of his conquerors haki, from Don Chinjao til now.

[@Goku-pt3oe]

Every yonko is weaker or stronger depending upon who he or she is but the thing that make you a certified yonko is not that you are equally stronger to the other yonkos but it is that if you clash with other yonko even if you lose you will put them in a compromised position that the other parties will take over both of them. That was the main reason why no yonko clashed with one another in the past.

[@damianaliu7597]

out of all the languages in the world you chose to speak facts

[@theta682pl]

And that means that Luffy was Yonko level on wholecake because at that point, after he was defeated, if someone like blackbeard or shanks came through, they would've mopped the floor with Big Mom. Her best commanders were all injured, her fleets damaged, her infrastructure was destroyed and she lost Zeus to Nami.

[@BillKapri7]

you worded this beautifully my man

[@HusamTheone]

Oh my god someone actually speaking facts and not stupid headcanons love to see it

[@gundar95]

mate this made no fucking sense

[@himbodavidbowie]

I feel as though people are acting like Luffy is going to casually beat Kaido. He’s lost twice now, passed out both times, probably from Kaido’s overwhelming strength and haki more than anything. Haki here seems to be the key. I think this fight will last for hours, likely until the sun rises in Wano. The night is still young, the fight has just begun and I can guarantee it won’t be easy for Luffy. Splitting the skies feels like an early step, not the first, but he’s going to have to keep fighting the WORLD’S STRONGEST CREATURE for a long time to drop him. It’s going to be close no matter what and even if Luffy loses again, he’s going to be standing much much longer than last time.

[@MomentaiKing]

Agreed. I often see people putting too much stock into single actions. Landing one great blow. Guarding against a powerful attack. Clashing as equals. These are absolutely impressive feats, but in One Piece, holding your own against an opponent is not the same as winning a fight against them.

[@shadeseed]

Well at this point it is stretching just how much he can pass out and still be in fighting shape a moment later on I personally can take before it becomes ridiculous.

[@NoOne-fo9ll]

But that automatically means the raid fails tho. They don't have hours, oniganshima is already visible from the flower capital

[@cecirapalini]

I agree. I think Luffy will lose one more time, or if this's the final fight it will take really long. I think sometimes people forget how long were the fights with Doflamingo and Katakuri

[@LJ9233]

@@NoOne-fo9ll luffy doesnt need to win against kaido before onigashima reaches the flower capital. the only thing that needs to happen before then is momo preventing the island from dropping on wano

[@zj989]

i think the biggest reason for pushback is that we dont want to admit that we are starting to see the end of such a great story. Luffy reaching yonko levels could mean Oda is starting the final stretch😢

[@ShatteredGlass916]

It is. We are getting close to One Piece ending. After this, there's BM, Shanks and Elbaf (which i hoped rolled into one arc) and then BlackBeard and then WG See you in 10 years

[@jd9542]

I dont think thats the case.. there is a lot more to cover even after luffy finds one piece These are the mystries that need to be unwailed 1. Revolutionaries war 2. The ancient weapons and vegapunk stuff 3. All human races and where do they came from 4. What happened during void century 5. Shanks vs blackbeard clash or luffy vs blackbeard 6. End of the story arc (strawhats travelling back, brook and laboons meetup) And many more...

[@monkeyboy275bobo8]

@@jd9542 Sure there has a lot more to be covered storywise but in terms of power luffy pretty much reaches the finishline by surpassing kaido. It makes him the strongest pirat out there and thats what it takes to be the pirat king. So yeah luffy beating kaido feels like hes damn close to reaching his final goal which marks the end of the series. Im sure we have plenty of years left but i also see how it can feel like its about to end soon.

[@FlightG9]

@@jd9542 You just proved Zach’s point honestly...most of your points are going to get off-screened or explained in a single chapter, it’s over. One Piece is ending soon after Wano is over there’s no more than 5 years left.

[@jd9542]

@@Dragonblazeromega I'm excited for what's upcoming😁

[@user-up1op3kz9q]

I’d like to remind people that Luffy has always been pretty excellent at observing his enemies and then finding either a counter or way to duplicate their abilities. He’s been doing this as early as Arlong Park with the “now I have shark teeth too” gag, and while that was obviously just a joke moment the fact still stands that against Crocodile, CP9, Cracker, and Katakuri he went on to demonstrate this sort of approach that makes his ability to grasp conqueror’s coating just by seeing it done make way more sense when viewed in-context

[@TheXXBLahBLahBLahxX]

Exactly!

[@I_am_mario009]

Perfect analysis 👌

[@zsmith4853]

Very well said.

[@RandomPerson-bc6td]

Exactly, and him training advanced armament for 3 weeks made it easier for him to grasp the concept of advanced coc because they’re quite similar.

[@ofimportance5458]

Ulti...

[@redx589]

Also didn't we already establish that Haki blooms in real battle? Thus doesn't it logically follow that(depending on the person) the harsher the struggle the more the growth? I think Conqueror's Haki just adds to this as these people are most likely to experience the highest growth rates.

[@remus4283]

There have to be limits to that, otherwise everyone with haki would be forever gaining zenkai boosts rather than dying.

[@NoOne-fo9ll]

But by that logic luffy should have reached a much higher in wci, because the fight with katakuri has been much harsher than it has been against kaido. Just look at luffy, he's damaged, yes, but nowhere close to when katakuri was bodying him the majority of the fight

[@redx589]

@@remus4283 Didn't I just say that? Thats why I clarified that *depending on the person* they will experience growth.

[@redx589]

@@NoOne-fo9ll No because Kaido is much stronger than Katakuri. Rayleigh said the stronger the *opponent* the stronger his Haki will grow. I think Conqueror's Haki aids in this growth. Thats why it's so feared. The people who have it have limitless potential and experience rapid growth when faced with powerful foes. Which is why Doflamingo immediately assumed that Luffy was stronger than Law just based on the fact that Luffy had Conqueror's Haki.

[@loopygordo]

@@redx589 I agree. The thing with CoC aswell is its potency is very closely tied to how strong the wielders will is. Katakuri was stronger than luffy when they fought in almost ever aspect but by the end as we saw luffy had the superior will over katakuri by leaps and bounds. The more luffy gets knocked down but not finished the stronger his drive becomes. Luffy and many other people have the physical strength to technically hurt kaido but none of their attacks actually stick because of how insane kaidos haki is. A visual I like using is imagine a perfect copy of kaido attacking himself but without CoC coating, the clone would do little to no damage. Luffy already has the physical ability to fight kaido, but lacked sufficient strength and control over his CoC haki until now.

[@sizun14]

I think people also forget something: Haki affinity. Luffy's specialty has always been Conquerors, and his weakest Observation. Taking this into account makes more sense in-universe as to why it took so long during Katakuri's fight for Luffy's OH to evolve, while he only needed few moments to grasp Advanced Conquerors. Edit: People, just because I said Luffy's affinity for Observation is the weakest of the three, i didn't meant to say he is bad with it; he wouldn't be able to use Future Sight if that were the case. I meant that he would have a harder time to improve it; it's even shown in the manga. It took a gruelling battle/beatdown with Katakuri for him to start to get Future sight; Advanced Armaments only took a week of training, and Advanced Conquerors just a glance and a recover after mere minutes of understanding how it works.

[@WhiteBeard640]

Oda has never said that Luffy’s weakest haki is observation. Just said that Luffy specialty is Conquerors, Zoro is Armament and Sanji is observation.

[@2whomami243]

Out of all the languages in the world you spoke Facts 👍

[@OmerAlazawy]

Facts 🤘🏻thanks

[@udonnauchegbu2018]

I also think that the growth during the fight was there before 1010. Like in chapter 1001 he was barely able to dodge the thunder bagua with his future sight. But chapter 1009 shows Luffy dodging an onslaught of hits from hybrid Kaido. This growth in a way culminated to what we are seeing now.

[@lukerne9260]

It was never stated or implied that Luffy struggled with observation.

[@jarondratman]

I don't find this development too jarring. Luffy always had an affinity for Conquerors Haki, and the foundation for Advanced CH was already there from his training in Udon where he practiced Advanced Armament nonstop. It's pretty much just the application of that practice to a form of Haki he's naturally better at.

[@Lethalbanter]

Haki is basically just willpower, and no one has more willpower than the future pirate king

[@qduck7696]

And Kaido, at this point was already tired from his fight with Yamato

[@Swolsuke]

@@qduck7696 is he though? It’s kinda obvious that Yamato wasn’t even a challenge for Kaido and could only stall him.

[@heroricspiritfreinen38]

That's like saying "Naruto has an affinity for wind so it makes sense for him to develop a forbidden justu wind technique" Like no Affinity just means what you're naturally best at

[@jbogle531]

Exactly. He was working on haki flow skills for days before he set out for Onigishima. He's extremely proficient with his Conquer's Haki, so I would think it would be understandable, especially after experiencing blows from Kaido, that it would have been fairly easy for him Luffy by the time he reached the roof, to catch onto how to improve his attacks with CH.

[@onepiecefancentral9698]

You’re missing one major detail, homie. “Pirate King” “World’s Strongest Man” “World’s Strongest Creature” Who gave them these titles? Making Gods out of mortal men. Morgans.

[@nishanpakhrin7392]

Morgans D. Big News

[@tobig.1765]

When? Those titles were given by oda via textbar. Nothing to do with morgans

[@freakplayer82]

@@tobig.1765 Pirate King was a name that got Roger from the World Government

[@AlanGaxGG]

@@tobig.1765 chapter 903

[@tobig.1765]

@@AlanGaxGG u didnt get my comment at all but nice to insult me of being dumb. lol

[@DawnofIsai]

Luffy went from being fodderized by blueno in W7 to going toe to toe with hybrid Lucci with absolutely NO explanation other than him saying he watched them use their techniques and presumably trained on his way to save Robin yet Enies lobby is a 10/10 with little complaints as to how he beat Lucci🤷‍♂️ Luffy trained his CoO vs Katakuri and that tested his will time and time again. His conquerers just passively improved. Next when he trained his CoA he had 2 pieces of the puzzle. All he needed was to see the application of advanced CoC for it to click. But, like kaido said, he's still new to advanced CoC. Now once again after getting defeated multiple times and coming back with no hesitation his will continues to grow, he's gotten more practical training fighting a fucking yonko 1v1 and has improved. Also like other times, just because of one instance of a clash it doesn't mean they're equal. Luffy was running circles around kaido one second and the next he's calling off onigashima. Just because rn he's able to hold kaido to a stalemate it doesn't mean they're actually on equal footing. This is undoubtedly a yonko level feat it doesn't mean he's as strong as the other yonko. He's simply passed the first test now he needs to not get destroyed. Another thing, people keep bringing up base Luffy and how it's unrealistic that he's able to do this stuff in base but has no one stopped to think that maybe he can't use all 3 advanced forms of haki while in gear 4 which already used a lot of haki? It's just much more practical to be in base. He's improved his proficiency in G4 for sure but it's like once you start lifting your standard weight for reps too easily you move up and guess what? You're back to square one. So Luffy probably got passed the time limit he had and is now more easily able to go into G4, but with the added strain of using 3 advanced forms of haki he will probably once again have a strict time limit. It happened during roof piece while he was only using 2 forms of advanced haki imagine all 3.

[@jilmasaddler2128]

Thank you bro i do think hes low yonko level admiral level he will probaly yonko level

[@theenjeneer2792]

I can see where your coming from but the boost in power is more significant in wano because of the fact that kaido is supposedly the strongest character currently alive in the whole one piece world it’s definitely understandable how people are mad at luffy being one shot by kaido to going toe to toe with him in like half an arc

[@Champ_7298]

@@theenjeneer2792 its been clearly set up though. Conquerors would be the least useful haki(unless youre getting jumped) if ot werent for advanced.

[@BobtheX]

@@theenjeneer2792 I know it's kinda weird, but I've always felt like One Piece follows DBZ logic, where all the Strawhats get Zenkai boosts after difficult battles. The Luffy that beat Crocodile was much stronger than the Luffy that beat Arlong. And that Luffy was much stronger than the Luffy that beat Buggy. His growth is pretty consistent and pretty significant. But yeah it would still be weird if this 19 year old kid beat the strongest living creature in the world. Which is why as much as it's a meme, I am pretty convinced the raid's gonna fail. I think I'd be a lot more willing to buy Luffy beating Kaido after one more round of growth.

[@theenjeneer2792]

@@BobtheX actually theres no evidence that luffy was stronger when he beat crocodile. Luffy only beat him because crocodiles logia wasn’t working and luffy fought him twice so he knew what to expected. But if your talking about the destruction luffy caused then east blue luffy could have done that too i mean luffy was 1 shotting sea kings and destroying buildings with one punch from the beginning

[@TylerAngelle]

I’m only nine minutes and 25 seconds into the video, but it is possible that Luffy, while fighting Ulti, Didn’t think he would need as much of his strength, and didn’t want to exhaust anymore than he had to. He may have just underestimated her.

[@CyberWolf3858]

pretty sure he outright states he was being careless and forgot he was dealing with an emperors crew when he got knocked down by Ulti

[@afropirate6470]

A thunder bagua from Yamato was enough to incapacitate her for a bit. A gear 4th punch definitely would've done close to the same

[@itzbabat]

even zoro said to safe his energy for the TRUE fight

[@dorianbroadnax9401]

Luffy already fought against some tanky zoans, so he probably figured that I'm just gonna take her down immediately instead have having a drawn out battle

[@tiktokasylum5186]

@@afropirate6470 head canon

[@ermacbigmac]

Luffy trained specifically to damage kaido for weeks, adding conquerors to his ryuo seems very natural to me. It’s like if a sharpshooter that already had great aim got new attachments and better bullets.

[@Cipher_Paul]

Especially since Conqueror's Haki is his specialty.

[@Joe-vz1ck]

Or that sharpshooter getting observation haki *cough cough* god usopp

[@phillach5181]

was it really weeks?

[@Ax1oM11oo]

Also people forgot that after timeskip, when asked what each straw hat specialized in, Oda specifically said Luffy specialized in Conqueror’s Haki. I don’t understand why people are being difficult about it. It’s like they’re paying zero attention to the series. The tree r better off going back to Naruto at this point.

[@zac606]

Thas a damn good analogy icl

[@AwesomecowsGaming]

I feel like everyone has been forgetting that this is nowhere near a 1v1. Kaido has been getting jumped for like 30 straight chapters by some of the strongest pirates out side of the yonko. And also Kaido couldn’t beat Luffy’s conquerors back when they clashed the first time so it makes perfect sense to me. I just don’t think oda has spelled it out how this makes sense so people are having problems with it

[@remus4283]

But realistically, how much damage did everyone other than Luffy, Zoro and Yamato do? It was only those 3 that left permanent injuries. It's implied that the attacks of the scabbards barely broke his skin

[@NoOne-fo9ll]

@@remus4283 kaido clearly said everyone on the rooftop was capable of hurting him. The scabbards, law and killer all gave noticeable damage to kaido

[@Perroden]

Exactly if you take Luffy at the end of this fight and then put him against a fresh kaido Luffy would undoubtedly lose. But this kaido has fought the 8 scabbards 4 supernovas 2 Luffys and one daughter (Lol)

[@usif91101]

Kaido said he wasn’t holding back and most of them were kinda useless the only useful ones IMO were Yamato and luffy and zoro they did damage to kaido

[@adoniscreed4031]

He has spelled it out though, Morj even says so... its just whether its a realistic power up within in the parameters of the story... I believe it is

[@Julian-pl4kp]

One Piece runs for 24 years Community: Did Luffy became too strong too fast?

[@hhhfdsfs]

2 and a half years in one piece time tho.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

This one is the best comment lmaoo

[@dcarnegie1992]

Yes he did in roughly 2.5 years I honestly expected it to go on until he reached about 21 to 25 would make sense it would take him from being 17 to 25 to become Yonko that is still rather fast for someone to be on top of the world

[@zsmith4853]

@@hhhfdsfs Exactly.

[@TheSnake2339]

It running for 20 years has nothing to do with anything, its about how strong Luffy was when entering Wano and how Strong he is now. He went from being Commander level to basically top 10 in the series in a couple weeks

[@mediaocrity4]

"Luffy has had more growth in this arc than any other arc" I wonder if this has anything to do with Wano being the first time Luffy has actually had a full blown training arc. From the timeskip to the start of Wano the ONLY thing Luffy added to his repetoire was future sight. Pirate King is a level beyond Yonko and so it always made sense that Luffy would reach the second highest level possible in the second to last saga. We have no basis to make any assumptions on how long it takes people to reach their prime. Roger was apparently a relative newcomer when he fought Rocks. Kaido had only recently fought Moria before clashing with Oden and taking over Wano. Mihawk isn't exactly old and he's been the strongest swordsman for at least 10 years.

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Nice all It takes is luffy training arch to beat a pirate at the level of kiado.. Man someone should tell all those admirals and other yonko.. lol all you need is a training arch lol...

[@mediaocrity4]

@@tiktokasylum5186 Do.....do you not remember how Akainu blew multiple holes in Whitebeard or how the other Admirals were able to counter his attacks? People peak early in One Piece. Kaido has only gotten slightly stronger over 20 years meanwhile Mihawk has been the strongest swordsman for at least 10 years. Every frame od reference we can use to measure Luffy's growth just further highlights that this isn't up for debate. Luffy got stronger enough because that was his capacity. I mean just look at how strong he got just within the Water 7 saga with zero training.

[@DamnZodiak]

It gets real boring real fast when people can solely point to in-universe explanations for something that is an explicitly out-of-universe narrative issue. This isn't about the internal logic of the One Piece world but rather the lack of context we as readers have when it comes to the relative power level of the strongest characters in the story.

[@Ragnay977]

I feel like people are forgetting that Kaido has been fighting non stop since we hit the island pretty much. He's taken hits, gotten wounds, and used his DF a ton so far. All in all I don't think this means Luffy is going to be considered 'Strongest in the world' at the end of this. It was a huge team effort and like Whitebeard said no one can be the strongest forever.

[@Harmonii2756]

Facts, kaido has been worn down a ton while luffy keeps getting chances, he even just returned from regaining his strength. Base fluffy can clash with a weakened kaido, not equals

[@imurpapa8120]

Zoans are supposed to have insane durability so kaido has to be the most durable in the verse and luffy just got knocked out hes prolly a little hurt too

[@shaquandavis4292]

I think we have to consider Kaido holding back not that he doesn't attack them with intent to kill but in the sense of allowing himself to be attacked by everyone on purpose

[@shaquandavis4292]

His goal is to die and allowed Luffy I. Their first fight to attack him with all his attacks

[@urekmazino6800]

@@Harmonii2756 kaido fault for not killing him lol

[@GenGaara]

I love how after 20+ years and 1000+ chapters One Piece can still be accused of doing things too fast. Just goes to show the depth and love this series has.

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Another person comparing real world time with actual fictional time... I swear you have zero brain cells if you think this is a actual argument... it’s been only couple of years in actual story time Einstein

[@Tom-dn6zy]

@@tiktokasylum5186 even in the fictional time, luffy trained for 10 years even before starting his journey. Went through all those trial upto the marineford arc. And then was trained for 2 years by the pirate kings right hand man. And then faced even more powerful trials upto the wano arc. I'd say thats around 14 years of training.

[@marcofaquim]

@@Tom-dn6zy my man just destroyed him 💀

[@jonathanfrancesco3305]

I mean by Yoni's logic, the story would need to have a significant time skip in order for Luffy to "believably" become Yonko level? Real world time is actually a fair thing to indicate. One Piece is going on 25 years of telling a consistent serialized story with the same author and same lead cast. Thats an incredible feat. To imply that NARRATIVELY, Luffy is somehow being rushed to Yonko level, THAT is an argument I don't think anyone can logically make. It's taken Luffy 100 volumes of storytelling to reach this point. Yeah, it's only been a few years within the story world. But at the same time, this has always been a part of OP's storytelling. Luffy went from unknown pirate to top bounty in the East Blue in what amounted to, what, a month or two at most? And then a few months later he's taking down a warlord. And then not much later he's taking down an elite government agent. Why is it all of THAT wasn't happening too fast but after a 2 year timeskip in which Luffy trained constantly, and then several arcs worth of fighting in which Luffy arguably got stronger, is it NOW too fast for Luffy to be Yonko level?

[@joeycash9739]

@@Tom-dn6zy Lol 10yrs, Oden was doing things that Luffy could never do at that age. What you’re saying dumb, and technically means that Luffy shouldn’t have lost to crocodile like 3 times then since he trained for like 10yrs right? You make no sense, these years of training didn’t stop Ace from getting murked by Akainu right? It didn’t stop Luffy from needing help or plot stepping in way too much to help him with Katakuri, Doffy, and Kaido.

[@BillyVena]

It’s interesting because my entire life in terms of learning new things there was always this small simplistic piece That was missing from my overall elevation to the next level. When it came to music production, it was time quantization, before my instrumentals were awful and when my friend showed me how to do it, it hyper jumped me into the next level! I was finally able to make music and this one simple thing was stopping me from doing it. Thats how I see luffy, he was always capable, but he could not injure A yonko, that one missing piece being advanced conquerers Haki!

[@jamarroberson9775]

I think luffys progression in this arc while admittedly fast still makes sense. We've seen evidence of luffy using a conqueror's haki infused attack back in dressrosa I believe when doffy went to step on law and luffy blocked it. You see the exact same black lightning effect you see with flashing conqueror's haki. Now luffy took something he did unconsciously and learned the basics behind it. Ryou training and basic armament also helped him get the general idea on how to use Haki to coat attacks so he just switched/combined the Haki he used. Luffy has one of (if not) the strongest wills in OP. By default he has to have one of the strongest conqueror's haki since it is directly correlated with willpower. I don't know if luffy will beat kaido this fight since I think kaido still has a lot up his sleeve (mostly awakening) but in terms of luffys growth I believe this has been foreshadowed and lead up to rather this just being random powerups this arc.

[@tistakere5055]

That was just a clash of normal kings haki

[@WillOfBleach]

I think Luffy’s growth is more like a Gohan and Elder Kai type growth (substituting Elder Kai with Hyogoro). I believe Luffy’s newfound power has been latent all along. We never really got a full grasp of how strong Luffy’s Conqueror’s Haki actually was and him learning to infuse that into his attacks via Ryuo method, learned from Hyogoro, gave him the huge boost we weren’t ready for.

[@WillOfBleach]

My main argument is that people have forgotten that Haki was literal willpower..

[@tiktokasylum5186]

@@WillOfBleach dragon ball is asspull,. I like one piece because it’s not like Dragon ball except recently

[@Champ_7298]

@@tiktokasylum5186 how is it even an asspull recently if luffy learning advanced conquerors has been logically set up throughout the series?

[@chief_tenkaichi]

Except hyogoro isn’t a god/witch so using dbz to justify How luffy gotten stronger in a short amount of time isn’t valid

[@ianpralle2239]

I always think back to Luffy vs Lucci in water 7 and how Lucci basically one-shots Luffy but in their rematch at Enies Lobby, Luffy develops 2 gears basically out of nowhere and ends up winning after a long drawn out fight. So after Kaido one-shots Luffy, Luffy spends weeks training advanced armament which also seems to be the basis for Advanced Conquerors, and seems to be ready for another drawn out fight, so I find it no more believable that Luffy could beat Lucci than Luffy beating Kaido.

[@usif91101]

I am pretty sure he said “I trained this technique for a long time” when he was bout to use gear 2 and luffy fighting is practicing his haki and depends on how strong opponents is and so far he is fighting a yonko and fought katakuri

[@Shark-hn4mv]

Except Luffy was around the same raw physical strength as Lucci even in base, just that Lucci had the edge. Whereas Kaido's raw physical strength is literally tiers above Luffy's. There's no reason Luffy's advanced King's Haki should put him on par with Kaido as if *only* Luffy gets a relatively massive boost by using it. And Oda showed us this is the case by having them clash evenly in the second round, only to show Luffy lost anyway a few chapters later. Luffy is not on the same level as Kaido, simply because Luffy does not have to be on par to clash with a main villain, nor does he have to be on par to beat one. Luffy earns wins because his appeal is gaining victories by attracting others to his side.

[@en3525]

Luffy was totally caught by surprise by Lucci, he was developing gear second since his fight with Aokiji, and he still lost a lot of times untill he weared Lucci down. Gear second is just doping so it doesnt require that much training

[@Freezaboi]

@@en3525 but couldn’t you also say when Kaido one shot Luffy, Luffy wasn’t in the greatest state of mind here. I’m just saying this because I’m your statement your saying they where caught off guard so their mental state of mind would make a difference

[@bobbob-zc1nx]

@@Freezaboi it doesn't count because luffy was on offense the whole time, kiado waited, then ran STRAIGHT to him and hit him with a club bigger than his body. There's no mental state issue, its kiado is way to strong and fast and his haki is just that high level. Which makes luffys fight here even more cap

[@ajdoku865]

It only takes a moment to become a yonko. E.g. Blackbeard at Marineford. Even for Kaido, clearly he had the potential while with Rocks, but once he got his df, that's when his legend began. And for Luffy, his specialty is conquerors, 1010 was his moment. Edit: I'm talking in terms of strength alone. We all know the moment BB got the 2nd df he enter the yonko realm of power. Compared to the years he spent waiting on WBs ship, it only took a matter of months to eat both dfs. Also, If we're going off when the world recognised BB as a yonko, then luffy was a yonko after WCI (an example, I know every disagrees over this but I hope you get my point)

[@AkiMinorikoOfficial]

Blackbeard became a yonko after he and his crew defeated the Whitebeard pirates in the Payback War

[@ghosthand9109]

No BB didnt become Yonko after Marineford. He had to do a lot of things to become one

[@AkiMinorikoOfficial]

@@ghosthand9109 He just had to beat Marco

[@ghosthand9109]

@@AkiMinorikoOfficial And also seize all the territories of WB

[@monke7566]

@@ghosthand9109 most* Fishman island, for example(WB territory) became big mom's

[@pemathamcho4123]

I mean my head canon is that since Luffy naturally gravitates towards conquerers haki, I feel like the sudden power boost of adv conquerers was natural since Luffy watched kaido do it before he used it for the first time

[@Andre_Jackson]

Finally 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾oda specifically said Luffy specialises on conquers haki compared to observation or armament haki. Wano focused on conquers and whole cake focused on observations. Obviously Luffy would have a massive upgrade in wano rather than whole cake

[@lukas-kevynmuller6697]

@@Andre_Jackson he had a massive upgrade after/during whole cake as well

[@demetav3507]

@@lukas-kevynmuller6697 I also believe that since he already practice flowing his armament haki which is ryo. Basically have that mastered. He could use conqueror at will. Flowing his king haki would be natural,

[@oj6187]

@@Andre_Jackson tbh act 1-2 specialized on armament and 3+ is on conquerors. Gives enough space for awakening gomu gomu no mi on the next arc and possibly gear 5 on his last fight after becoming the king of the pirates. Even dying upon using it

[@Perroden]

Yes luffy is a genius and picks up on stuff like that. And after seeing it and experiencing so many time of course he's going to learn it too.

[@stolenmemes4432]

It makes sense that the transition went quickly when Luffy learned it. You can’t really train up conquerors haki to be stronger. You can train to use it in different ways, just like advanced conquerors, but it’s not stronger by itself. Of course, the stronger the attack from the user plus the advanced conquerors coating, that itself will make the move more powerful. Controlling it is another thing that’s up in that skill. Like Morj said, Luffy kinda already went through the training of the “flow of Haki”, then he learned (with kaidos attack) that you can coat with conquerors instead of armament. Oda also said that Luffy has a better mastery of Conquerors than the other types, which means control of it. Someone that doesn’t have control of it is Zoro but we know he has it.

[@chrissolace]

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I remember someone saying that “Haki grows best against stronger/similar strength Haki”, so it makes sense that Luffy would have the most significant growths against his strongest threat. It also makes sense how Yamato can even stand a chance against Kaido (aside from learning his move set); Yamato trained her Haki against a YONKO (and implied frequently). If you heard someone fought a Yonko, lived, and kept trying again, you would also believe they would last this long in a fight, since they basically did it before.

[@Martin-yh7vi]

Rayleigh said that.

[@retrogamermax8287]

Mr. Morj: No arc villain has ever been able to causally one shot Luffy with their first attack. Me: A, Lucci in his hybrid form performing one Finger Pistol on Luffy at Gallery-La Company.

[@obnoxiouslakerfan]

Crocodile too

[@DIMOHA25]

I thought of that too, but while it could be considered a one shot, it didn't do nearly as much to Luffy as Kaido did and Luffy wasn't at his strongest at that point.

[@TheSukari]

I think he meant just flat out incapacitated his opponent. Luffy got launched afterward between those two buildings where he got stuck but he was very much conscious. Kaido straight up knocked Luffy out and ended the exchange in one blow. In that regard, yeah would be the first

[@TheR3dSmile]

yep, one piece fans seem to forget all past chapters, its so weird.

[@blazecable9]

Wasn't a "one shot." He gave Luffy quite a few hits prior.

[@jonathanvincy]

There's two reasons that I didn't freak out when I saw that panel. 1) Didn't Oda confirm Conqueror's haki to be Luffy's speciality way back when? And more importantly, this clash was a clash of conqueror's haki. I don't think that this signifies that Luffy is equal to Kaido in terms of physical strength, but moreso strength of will. Luffy's will has almost always been one of his most notable strengths, even against people who far outclassed him. So him being able to weaponize his specialty would naturally give him a huge boost.

[@chubbyalonso3687]

Thank you my brother! I don't know why some people don't get that sky splitting is a conqueror's haki feat. Obviously this signifies that Luffy's conqueror's haki is now equal or comparable to Kaido. But that doesn't mean his durability is suddenly like Kaido or Big Mom.

[@tanmoypal11]

Here luffy reminds me of naruto and kaido might guy.

[@scribalma_h]

Good point. What we're seeing is a clash of wills, one of the main themes of Wano, not something that necessarily signals Luffy's strength, durability and skills as equal to Kaido's, at least yet. Oda might be saying that Luffy's will to become King of the Pirates has reached the big leagues but it's not as if he can now wipe the floor with Kaido, Shanks, Blackbeard and so on and so forth.

[@TheR3dSmile]

@@chubbyalonso3687 yes, but exactly this conqueror's haki of his strong will, will be one of his strongest weapons now.

[@emperorluffy6001]

Add that to the fact that Rayleigh already told us that Haki blooms in battle and that Luffy's Haki would get stronger as he faced stronger foes.

[@rickflairdrip4074]

Difference between Wano and Whole Cake is that Luffy literally had a whole training arc

[@KaiserReb]

Fr he trained for 3 weeks in wano

[@remus4283]

Wow a whole 3 weeks to go from barely keeping up with a nerfed 1st commander in his strongest gear, to splitting the sky with the strongest creature (in his hybrid form) while in base.

[@owenyoung9645]

@Remus 42 THANK YOU.

[@henryviiifake8244]

@@remus4283 This 100% People are really out here thinking that the One Piece timeline runs at the same speed as real life! Just because a few hundred episodes takes a year doesn't mean Luffy's been training for a year

[@iamnotinvolved1309]

@@KaiserReb One week* lol.

[@TheXXBLahBLahBLahxX]

Come on! Its perfectly understandable why Luffy is able to learn new techniques very quickly . Take a polyglot (a person who knows many language )as an example, a polyglot is able to learn a new language very quickly, because they already have a lot of practice and know the shortcuts of learning a language. Or look at a dancer who has been dancing for many years, they can look at a new choreography and end up mastering it in an hour, some within a few minutes. Luffy is the same, he is a master fighter, he is able to learn new techniques with ease. He has been fighting/training since 7 years old, Fighting is all Luffy knows, his growth is understandable, he grew up in a jungle ffs he is able to overcome and adapt very quickly.

[@MrFuly7]

This is what I've been trying to say..👍🏼

[@genx2078]

Yeah i mean he himself said that he cant navigate like nami, cant be a sniper like usopp he cant be a cook like sanji but he can fight better and fighting is what he is best at

[@davidguilmero3361]

This! This!! Thank you. I like how when Wano first started ppl would easily say Zoro will slash Kaido like Oden, or he will kill Kaido. And when Zoro did hurt Kaido ppl were happy no one questioned it. But when Luffy hurts him, everyone goes nuts and says luffy progression is to fast, like wtf.

[@blahblahmaster22]

Yoo I never thought of it like this. This makes a lot of sense.

[@ashlinthomas4500]

Your logic is flawed. If that was the case, wouldn't there be many other great pirates just as strong, smart, and quick to learn as Luffy? You seem to forget that there are plenty of polyglots and dancers in the world with the same skills, so why is Luffy the only one getting so powerful at such a short amount of time at the young age of 19 (young because every other strong pirate is 30+).

[@luckas8]

Thanks morj, I thought basically the same you did about luffy using conquerors, it was never about a new ability, but just a new application of an ability he already had.

[@LeNawid]

This video you seemed a lot more calm and collected while discussing a heated topic. I like this kind of style. It doesn't add unnecessary emotional drama to controversial topics like power levels.

[@LOLMASTERPRO]

I think what people don't like about Luffy finally reaching the top tier is that he can no longer be the underdog in fights. From the start we knew he was strong but the story always had him punch upwards at seemingly stronger and more accomplished enemies. Now he's at yonko level we must accept that there shouldn't be anyone left in the world who can beat him 1v1. And that ultimately means we are getting close to the end of one piece.

[@joaodelgado6696]

meh the story has always been iffy on that point. Luffy has always been considered the underdog but the first time he was truly outmatched and the actual udnerdog was against Crocodile. After the timeskip a similar situation happened again where the only time where luffy was actually the udnerdog and had to learn during the fight was against katakuri. Luffy already arrived in the battle against Doflamingo capable of defeating him, he was just keeping Gear Fourth close to his chest

[@Cheesehead302]

Honestly, that's my problem here. At the beggining of this arc, it's set up to be the antithesis of the One Piece underdog story by literally having Luffy get obliterated by Kaido. It wasn't even a fight, he just got demolished. So then I'm wondering how the hell are they going to beat Kaido? And then, later on, the stakes are raised further when it's revealed that they have to go up against Big Mom AND Kaido. So then I'm thinking, what is going to happen that allows them to win? And now we're at the current spot in the story and it still feels like the alliance is just casually coasting along without any struggle whatsoever. If the story takes a turn and the alliance suffers significant set backs, I won't mind about Luffy's jump. I just want the victory to feel earned on the part of everyone. If Luffy slides passed the finish line like it's going currently, then I will have an issue.

[@simon9902]

In all East Blue: luffy was the top Dog^^ (he's goofing almost all the fight against Arlong^^, Crieck manage to push him cause of his vicious tactic and Luffy's own proud to surpass all he's gat), there's only Croco, Lucci, Katakuri and now Kaido who were almost for sure originally stronger. Fight in one piece are usually more for fun, storytelling and character development (it takes a lot to make luffy go serious) than raw and suspensfull fight between fair opponents or aggainst all odds. Even Zoro and Sanji usually get a lot of handicaps in all there fights, or just detroy their opponents in matter of seconds^^.

[@heyarnold7256]

Well yeah I mean he's gonna be a King at the end of this arc. He's objectively NOT an underdog anymore. He's no longer a rookie. That time has LONG past and people need to get over that.

[@vincentdeluca4485]

Idk I don’t think Luffy will beat Kaido 1v1 quite yet, Yamato will likely still help out, he’s def bot someone for Kaido to look down on anymore though he is a genuine threat now.

[@_wael]

Luffy grows every arc, meanwhile this is the only arc where he actually had a timeskip to train. 2 WHOLE WEEKS! And this was before the rooftop fight where he discovered the yonko's secret power - conquerors coating. It's been funny seeing the people who never powercsaled correctly freak out lmao. Easy to spot those who can't actually notice any detail when they don't recognize the repetition in the Oden flashback of Kaido speedblitzing a character on their head when they weren't defending. Meanwhile Law and Zoro take a thunder bagua with conquerors coating straight on the body without being knocked out and even being full of energy right after when they get off the roof. Lastly, the point of the conquerors coating reveal in 1010 is this kind of unmasking of the yonko and other top tier powerful characters. Removing the curtain in a large way as to a significant part of what makes them so powerful. To Luffy and to the reader conquerors coating is a secret, a huge advantage over others they have had that allowed them to be where they are today. Now when Luffy gets rid of 1 of their advantages by learning that he can apply his conquerors haki which he already had under control, in a different fashion, he does it simply. While at first his technique is said to not be on par with Kaido, with a bit of time and firsthand experience now he's able to have it at the level where he can split the sky. So it's only obvious that he's closer to them than before.

[@kenan-b]

I'm not sure if being full of energy is what I'd use to describe zoro after the rooftop battle lol unless you're accounting for the shot chopper gave him

[@sujanaryal833]

@@kenan-b Zoro wasn't put in that condition by just the thunder bagua. It was the combined attack that injured him not the thunder bagua

[@MagetoLp]

@@sujanaryal833 you didnt understand his argument he means that it doesnt make sense for characters like law to tank a thunder bagua

[@sujanaryal833]

@@MagetoLp dude reread my comment. Where did I argue with that? Infact I am agreeing with him and backing his claim .

[@MagetoLp]

yes people should have realized that luffy was already above yc1 after whole cake island and the next step is entering the yonko/admiral realm.

[@thewanderersrespite8074]

I'm also kinda of the mind that the reason a lot of people don't wanna view Luffy as an "Emperor" yet is... I think it's the start of the end? Like, Luffy would basically have reached the pinnacle at the point. The next logical step is for him to finish his journey. So, admitting Luffy is an emperor kinda translates to admitting we're in the final stretch 🙃

[@tiktokasylum5186]

It’s not about the end it’s about how the end is coming which is trash

[@Allen-qs2xr]

Next chapter: Kaido reveals that he clapped his hands and split the sky himself. Luffy did nothing of that sort.

[@robilala2135]

Lol Bleach.

[@torontorapontop4656]

It’s about damn time only took 1k chapters 😭 but now luffy can finally back up his talk

[@gletzroll2466]

This is how I think of it, luffy never lacked strength, he was actually as powerful enough to damage kaido, but he did not have anything to penetrate the tough skin and scales of big mom and kaido. We saw luffy pushing kaido around in the first battle. He did actually move him, but it didn’t do any damage at all because he didn’t have a certain penetration technique. Once he achieved that technique, he can now go on par with Kai do in power, but kaido is still superior in speed and power. Luffy just exceed in coc.

[@fzen788]

yes. he is literally garp´s grandson and as far we know garps physical strenght is absurdly high.

[@gletzroll2466]

@@fzen788 yeah his destructive power is insane

[@KIABOSS-vh7bn]

I completely agree, because the destructive ability of gear 4th is incredible, oda said so himself. But even those attacks could not damage big mom or kaido. I have no problem with luffy instatly using advanced conquers because unlike the other two COC is a manifestation of your will and how strong that is will be reflected in your attacks so it is completely fine he got this power up

[@gletzroll2466]

@@KIABOSS-vh7bn yeah and also he already learned how to let haki flow out of him through different body parts, so all he had to do was let coc flow out and cost like ryou.

[@KIABOSS-vh7bn]

@@gletzroll2466 yessssir👊🏼🙂

[@bayekofsiwa5847]

Kaido needs to have a backstory before he gets defeated so that splitting the sky is no more than a spectacle sight but the fight is far from over.

[@Chiefteeth1]

Kaidou backstory could be one ore two chapters

[@uchibito11]

Yea, if we start getting Kaido's backstory, then that's the sign the fight is almost over

[@j3nki541]

Luffy has made significant jumps in the story just from thinking of the concept of a new skill. Water 7 he was nowhere near CP9(that the right name xD?) and just from thinking of a way to imitate their techniques he was able to beat their leader. This time he klicked with the ultimate yonko technique, coating oneself in conquerors haki, after having like 7 days to train the fundamentals. I'd say the leap is totally justified, he was already 1st commander level...

[@tiktokasylum5186]

The water 7 crap was a total asspull and you know it.. this however is even worse.. a guy who’s struggled with Kat couple of weeks ago is now going toe to toe with kiado lol

[@Champ_7298]

@@tiktokasylum5186 water 7 is more of an asspull logically. Basically 0 prior mention of the technique and he was able to become significantly stronger. We acrually have a basis as to why luffy is so powerful right now. The people who think wano luffy is an asspull started watching one piece just for wano.

[@halfbloodprince9235]

@@tiktokasylum5186 but no one will ever put up this topic and admit it lol... Basically naruto gets all the hate for all the asspulls but atleast in some way it feels more justified than one piece.

[@joeycash9739]

@@halfbloodprince9235 Because they like Luffy better and the fandom will find a way to justify it because they want to see Luffy beat Kaido now. When it’s not realistic and if he does it’s all down hill from here, meaning you’re going’s to see plot hole fights. Dude came back like a damn Saiyan who died and is now stronger lol

[@Evbot2]

Another thing to note is that it seems that some of Kaido's energy right now has been spent floating the whole island of onigashima - i imagine whenever he decides to drop it it will be a massive power up as well

[@Newworld-gk6us]

After chapter 1026: the raid won't fail.

[@prime7042]

Luffy will lose at least once more if it won’t fail

[@prafulsai8020]

We are in the end game of the raid. I'm guessing Kaido will fall in January 2022.

[@rasin9391]

@@prime7042 I assume luffy *has* to loose once more for tensions sake is what you're saying right?

[@raviathreya5357]

Well duh of course it won’t. At this point i feel like Morj is just going down with his ship. I don’t think he REALLY believes it anymore

[@Suriosty]

Morj be clowning....

[@artenis444]

The only issue I see is Luffy not having enough experience. The yonko all have spent their life times on the sea fighting and ruling, so it's difficult for people to just accept Luffy automatically up there. I think its fine though since he is the main character after all, and theres just too much riding on the stories progression for him to fail in this battle

[@MagetoLp]

you can say the same about every straw hat, at the end its odas decision what time length he wants.

[@thanveerahamed660]

can extend another 20 years to manga 😂

[@Brunothegoat]

Smh black beard dont even have that much fighting experience lmao

[@heyarnold7256]

It's more than him just "being the main character" though. We were literally already told that "Haki blooms in battle". It's more likely that people with Conquerors Haki experience the MOST "bloom" when faced with harsh conflict.

[@artenis444]

@@Brunothegoat he was on Whitebeards ship for a really long time, you can honestly say he has as much experience as Shanks

[@Hans-dm1vr]

It’s pretty obvious that what separates the yonko and all the other top tiers i from everyone else is their ability to coat conquerors, and that all Luffy needs to be on the same level and even surpass the yonko is to fully comprehend and master conquerors conquerors coating. So if Luffy wants to beat Kaido any other top tier he needs to master conquerors coating. It doesn’t even matter if he’s using gears or not as long as he keeps coating conquerors he’ll be at that level.

[@narukami597]

lol he's not beating even a first mate without the gears.

[@thespicyone1211]

@@narukami597 ehhhh I mean he IS using Coc in base rn

[@JohneeBlaize]

@@narukami597 so in that case, no Emperor is allowed to use they DF in a fight against a 1st mate. In which case, Blaccbeard gets no diff, curb stomped by Katakuri.

[@geogeo3733]

CoC is op

[@wwe12153]

Lol , physical power and armament are 95% of the one’s power

[@xdian1358]

"yonko level" is a dangerous way of thinking, one piece fights arnt really like that. It's not "if A beats B and B beats C, then A will beat C" they are more situational then people think. Kaido has fought the Scabbards, Yamato, Law, Kid, Zoro, Killer and Luffy, dude isn't invincible so ofc he is going to weaken

[@krishyt7963]

SO U WANNA SAY LUFFY DID NOT FIGHT ANYONE BEFORE FIGHTING KAIDO?

[@xdian1358]

@@krishyt7963 I never said Luffy didn't fight anyone before Kaido, but Kaido is out basis of comparison since he is the strongest character as of now, so I'm just saying that if it was a 1v1 and both were at full stamina then Luffy would have no chance

[@dmitrychirkov4206]

Oda put so much effort to show Luffy's growth during Wano and set Kaido in the most unfavorable position in a fight. Even with this, Luffy utterly lost a few rounds against him. He just keeps getting up, like a proper protagonist should, until he reaches his goal. Still, people try to pull "too soon" card again and again. Guys, admit it: you just don't want One Piece to ever end. I feel ya.

[@faceagain5703]

2 hours ago he was almost forced into gear 4 by ulti xd , now he is splitting the sky ... u see the problem ? He just keeps getting up bcs he has plot armor and literally kaido regrets not killing him , when he could of

[@dmitrychirkov4206]

@@faceagain5703 Ulti is crazy strong among other charcters of her level. This dynamic actually corresponds with reality better than with shoenen tropes. Imagine a middle-weight boxer challenging a super-heavy weight champion, but on the way encountering a feather-weight thai-boxer. If you know how strong and persistent these guys are, you may understand why you suppose to take them seriously. With other things being equal, you are almost guaranteed to win agains him, just by a sheer weight advantage. But believe me, you will still struggle. Thats why Mugiwaras tried to save their strength for the main fights during the raid. Thats why Whitebeard suffered so much damage before he made his way to Akainu. Thats why Shanks lost his arm to a mere Sea King. They are just mortal beings after all. Even Luffy says something similliar to encourage others to fight. And ofcourse without plot armor the story would end around Logtown, but it's ok with me)

[@jilmasaddler2128]

@@faceagain5703 bro he was playing around with ulti he went straight to gear 4th this has nothing to do with plot armour

[@jilmasaddler2128]

@@dmitrychirkov4206 so you think this is plot armour ok

[@jilmasaddler2128]

@@faceagain5703 i get what you saying but i disagree with the plot armour thing but we know luffy to ahve the skillset to learn things fast

[@abhishekdas3320]

Luffy won't get bodied by any Yonko or Admiral unless he goons around like what he did against Apoo. He is still weaker than the other Yonko but still in that tier of Admirals. If anything Luffy can beat some of the admirals right now with high difficulty. If he can fight comfortably in base mode against Kaido that means he is not as reliant on Gear 4 as he was previously which also in a way reduces his gear 4 stamina issues.

[@Drizzly0]

Who say a name? Let’s hear it

[@Thead2Raw]

Gear 4 doesn't affect his stamina just haki.

[@abhishekdas3320]

@@Thead2Raw yes the Haki that he uses continuously in gear 4. One of the reasons why he keeps switching in and out of g4 now because the longer he remains in g4 the more haki is being drained. or at least that's how it is being implied lately.

[@MagetoLp]

That bothered me so much. oda shows how luffy can take hits from katakuris and stronger opponents without losing consciousness for hours, but a small explosion from apoo is too much? makes no sense to me. Maybe its the "gooning" around, like u said.

[@usif91101]

We r entering act 4 and there will most likely be a new gear or something up luffy sleeve cause he trained it and fights and that how he gets stronger

[@jaleelmenifee4506]

Well since we’re forcing the power scaling discussion, I think we’re mischaracterizing the nature of the power leaps for One Piece in general. The initial difference between luffy and kaido is comparable to the difference of a character without haki v a logia user or even a character with haki v a character without haki. These are huge gaps, in practice, but the leap in growth is as simple as learning a new technique. Many characters don’t even have the necessary components to achieve what luffy and the other greats can do, such as conqueror’s haki, and a competent use of either armament or observation haki. Without these advance level components, most characters don’t even come close to the top tier, so luffy clearly was as ready as he could be lol

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Luffy literally achieved what only small group of people can do by saying ooh i know what you did lol... totally asspull and you are cap 🧢 hard

[@jaleelmenifee4506]

@@tiktokasylum5186 cry to Jesus not me

[@ShogunV]

The growth is only jarring for those obsessed with power scaling. Luffy already had the tools in place, he just needed to put them to proper use and had the right mentor. I mean sure he has less endurance than Kaido but that doesn’t mean he can’t dish out equal amounts of firepower. If he revealed all his cards from the start he would’ve one-shotted his way through every arc after time skip. The moment Luffy was announced as fifth emperor was the signal that Oda will have him playing at this stage now because this is the point of the story where they need to take down a yonko. There is no time for a “raid will fail” or another time skip. The events in One Piece world are escalating fast. So it’s gonna be a roller coaster ride from now on. If people are still confused on where to place Luffy right now then maybe they ought to reconsider their preconceived notions of “power levels”.

[@Alpha-bz6ke]

This is why I hate the power scaling bullsh*t. Can’t they at least accept his already on par with the yonkou/s? Although his experience isn’t as much as the yonkous, his experience is already rich in fighting with the ability to integrate haki and df. Easily make more movesets in his devil fruit, when to evade and counterattack. I can already see how his standing toe to toe with Kaido without losing ground in terms of basic fighting, firepower, and reaction. What I mean is, his experience is enough to be counted as a yonko and his body stats is considered as well since he has all requirements. Close to awakening in devil fruit, mastery in all advanced haki, and rich experience. Luffy has been through a lot unlike how those yonkous like big mom has special physiques in the beginning. He worked his way hard from weak-to-strong.

[@ShogunV]

@@Alpha-bz6ke What matters more than power levels is the power dynamics and how the different abilities and move-sets match up against each other.

[@DuinDuin31]

I also think we shouldn't really judge that one shot scene from kaido vs luffy too much. Luffy was super pissed since he thought he lost his crewmates, therefore could not proprely use advanced observation haki as what was said during the katakuri fight. Without any idea of the what you are about to take from a yonko, most character would take a pretty big L

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Hmm wow thoughtful

[@NN-yy9gb]

Morj: Kaido and BM are not compared concretely against other major world figures BM: Grabs Marco by the neck

[@wisdommanari6701]

Yeah but not an admiral or another yonko. It's been stated in the story The Emperor's are above their own Commanders

[@sapiense-science-cerveau]

Luffy did not have any massive powerup since the timeskip. He has unlocked rare abilities and mastered them in hours, but they involve skills, not power. I mean it's not like there is an order of magnitude of brute force between slowing the fall & breaking apart Noah, and smashing a dragon to the ground. Same about the amount of CoC needed to knock out 50000 fishman in an instant and stopping a yonkō strike, though it's not something you can quantify.

[@Sinlinara]

Something else I think people keep forgetting about the first match with Kaido is that Luffy was literally at his lowest. He lost all of his cool after seeing Kaido 'kill' all his friends. We know from Katakuri that when you're enraged like that that it's harder for you to focus, and seemingly impossible to look into the future. And not being able to see into the future, Luffy seemingly took a hit that he shouldn't have taken. The second fight on the rooftop isn't just Luffy having gotten stronger with another advanced Haki, it's Luffy when he's in the zone. When he's not berserk and making mistakes he wouldn't have otherwise (though he does still mess around). And it's also Luffy with advanced observation Haki that I don't think he could have been using in the first fight. The power difference between the First and Second fights isn't just a matter of static and linear power scaling. The Luffy that went against Kaido the first time was arguably weaker than the Luffy that fought Holdem. Which I think is part of the reason why there's such a stark difference between the first and second showings - Luffy has not only gotten stronger thanks to his training in Udon, he's also not metaphorically shackled by his rage.

[@donrog5035]

GREAT !! I didn’t think about that this way. You actually have a point.

[@JayB-hz8rh]

Luffy would have gotten 1 shot by Kaido regardless if he was in a calm state of mind or not. He barely dodged Kaido the second time after he already seen the attack and knew how Kaido fights

[@Sinlinara]

@@JayB-hz8rh Probably, yeah. Having the extra experience fighting Kaido definitely helped the second time around.

[@donrog5035]

@@JayB-hz8rh He barely avoids the second time but he still avoided. Of course he would have lose regardless but he wouldn’t have been one shot

[@inzamaanabdool3147]

Luffy went from being not being able to damage Kaido to competing with him splitting the sky and damaging him

[@MagetoLp]

it was just a small step called CoC coating, after all he is specialized in conquerors haki.

[@Perroden]

It does make sense if you have been paying attention lolz

[@loopygordo]

If there was a perfect copy of kaido that hit himself but without CoC coating then the copy wouldn't do any damage. Haki matters a lot and it makes sense since luffys will has only grown stronger with each obstacle that trys to force him down and break his will.

[@NoOne-fo9ll]

@@Perroden paying attention to what mate? Sure it's not the biggest case of plot armour in anime history, but it's still a case of classic shounen protagonist plot armour

[@rehansyed7310]

@@NoOne-fo9ll 🤡

[@urpotato5005]

I've waited almost a decade for luffy to become one of the strongest I don't think it's too fast, everything was building up for this moment

[@tiktokasylum5186]

How on earth are you comparing real word time with actual story time? The amount of goofy comments like this are baffling

[@deweyhefner3580]

@@tiktokasylum5186 I get what you mean, but One Piece actually in story time passed is just so slow that real life time has too matters. I don't think it's even been three full years in the story , but it started serialization in 1997 that has to come into play.

[@idkagoodusername6538]

@@tiktokasylum5186 how much longer do we have to wait for luffy to become yonko ? Oda can’t keep writing one piece forever

[@bonez2597]

i think one thing to remember during luffy's fight with ulti is he says himself that he was underestimating the strength of kaido's subordinates. He also never used to ryou even once during that fight

[@MinutelyHipster]

I think it's fair to say to say Luffy is "Yonko level," but also that he would lose one-on-one with Kaido. Both times he's fought Kaido during the raid he's had help, either from the other supernovas, or from Momonosuke in dragon form. Kaido also hasn't had time to relax during the raid, fighting Yamato as Luffy rests and eats. So yes you can say he's at Yonko Level for splitting the sky, but you can also argue he has a long way to go if he wanted to ever beat Kaido in a fair fight, even if he does emerge victorious here. He's only reached the baseline power of a Yonko

[@SolitaryLark]

Well put!

[@llucvicente9888]

Exactly, what I thought. He's in yonkou level but he is the weakest of all them by far.

[@phillach5181]

i think hes about admiral level, in my mind just a bit weaker than yonkos

[@sobversion3]

@@phillach5181 Admirals aren't weaker than Yonko heads (inherently speaking). They're basically on par

[@phillach5181]

@@sobversion3 @Rebellious Q I can remember in Dressrosa Doffy knew he would get killed by kaido if he cant provided him with smiles and he also said he would get rid of Fujitora. So he knew he didnt stand a chance against Kaido but he thought that he could maybe beat Fujitora.

[@LanUltra]

I see Luffy's haki and his actual strenght as two things.

[@nickjohnson02]

indeed, because it is

[@shridharbiju7370]

Haki is less of a power system and more of a tool that the characters can use.

[@jestersage8700]

@@shridharbiju7370 you could say that about every power system ever

[@Encyclopedia_Brown97]

Kaido’s got to be getting a bit tired at this point - he’s had to take on the Vassals, a bunch of the Worst Generation members, and Yamato with NO breaks. When Luffy wins, he’ll still probably be at the bottom in terms of individual Yonko power, but in terms of endurance and ability to take a beating, Luffy outlasts almost everyone. I think that’s the difference here

[@oguzer7]

Luffy doesnt outlast anyone. He was beaten, Kaido literally threw him of the island lol. He got saved and then he got as much meat as he needed to be fully powered up again. That is not "outlasting" anyone lol

[@sashimisusumi7139]

Yes, unlike other villain arc, Kaido also fight non-stop since the war start

[@Encyclopedia_Brown97]

@@oguzer7 You're right Luffy hasn't outlasted Kaido yet (we'll have to see how this battle plays out) but his absurd endurance and ability to take a punch have been a key advantage against other opponents, including Crocodile, Lucci, and Katakuri. Logically, it makes sense: Luffy is pretty used to these long, drawn out fights by now, but Kaido hasn't had to exert himself for this long in years.

[@DownWithMajority]

That's how Luffy wins all of his fights, outlasting his opponents through sheer stamina and willpower, and I bet it will happen again here. It's a staple cliche of shonen jump protagonists after all, and I don't have much issue with this in general, but context kind of matters here. Kaido is a (presuably) awaken mythical zoan user, he should have the most physical prowess and durability of them all, maybe even some sort of regeneration ability, so the thought of Luffy outlasting him irks me somehow to be honest, I wish he would be defeated in some other more creative way.

[@S113Productions]

Kaido is also still standing and fighting after having his insides being fucked up by Law’s gamma knife.

[@weathermangohanssj4]

People forget that growth is exponential not linier.

[@EvanUthus]

There wouldn’t be much pushback if there was more consistency in power-scaling, after Luffy defeated Kat, it shouldn’t have been too hard to write an improvement to Yonko level. 1st Commanders should have been written as relative to Admirals and able to fight against Yonko but a tier below them, and would ultimately lose. But because of how Marco vs Big Mom was written and how Luffy vs Kaido the first time was written then how Luffy vs Ulti and Yamato and Apoo, and then later how King and Queen were demolished by Greenbull, the gap between 1st Commanders and Yonko was widened significantly and Luffy’s strength relative to Headliners and Tobi Ropo was diminished. so at the same time he could get toasted by Apoo then fight Kaido evenly even though the gap in power between Apoo and Kaido was canonically more significant

[@velvet_Overkill]

No he can't beat a Yonko, but he's one of the few pirates who can contend with Emperors. ( This is just a comment on the title, I will edit my comment if the video has different information)

[@jimmyjammers9947]

i mean he is gonna beat kaido just that he won't do it by himself but he'll get all the credit. when kaido was introduced it said that in a 1v1 fight always bet on kaido no point in saying that if it wasn't true

[@benamv3943]

Unpopular opinion very very unpopular opinion Current luffy>old almost dead whitebeard Ofcourse prime whitebeard would destroy Luffy

[@bane3123]

That's not unpopular

[@Elitist]

In terms of physical stats maybe. Whitebeard's fruit can not be understated

[@walrico6337]

I'd say he beats Oldbeard Post Squard Stab. Not Uninjured Oldbeard though.

[@bane3123]

@@walrico6337 old wb even before stab has no basic observation haki .

[@walrico6337]

@@bane3123 That's because he took off the tubes stabilizing his sickness. If you go back and read that chapter. Marco says that he wasn't able to dodge because he took them off.

[@dresdenwinterknight9553]

Of course he can't beat a yonko right now, otherwise Kaido would already be down. But he will be able to do it soon, that is the point of this fight with Kaido, he is becoming someone who can beat these high level pirates, and this happens while he is fighting. "Haki blooms in the heat of battle"

[@marlitoworld3925]

Ppl are still forgetting that this is still not a 1 on 1 fight. Kaido is still handicapped in terms of numbers.

[@edwardkanu8328]

@@marlitoworld3925 for now

[@jimmyjammers9947]

i mean you got to remember that kaido is the strongest creature on earth and when he was introduced it said that in a 1v1 always bet on kaido. I think luffy can fight relatively even with a yonko but can't beat kaido 1v1. same thing with whitebeard it took 3 admirals the entrie force of the marine and blackbeard and his crew to take him down and shanks was till to sky split with him.

[@marlitoworld3925]

@@jimmyjammers9947 I don’t think Luffy can beat any Yonko 1 v 1 yet. His base form is still much weaker in comparison to theres. He has the capabilities they have but his powers aren’t as nurtured as much as there powers are. If the 3 admirals fought whitebeard at the same time there’s no doubt they would win. Whitebeard is very powerful but 3 top tier admirals with Such OP devil fruits is overkill.

[@jimmyjammers9947]

@@marlitoworld3925 I think he can beat BB and BM 1v1. luffy has strong enough haki to clash evenly with the strongest creature in the world plus I don't think luffy is getting stronger than he is right now. Big mom has to come from haki alone since her devil fruit is useless since luffy isn't scared of her and eventually hes gonna fight BB 1v1 so. the whitebeard example was more to show that luffy can clash evenly with a yonko

[@hallowakers3d2y]

People who think it’s too soon just don’t want the series to end but screw that, don’t drag it out or have an unnecessary sequel(you know what series I’m talking about) let it be a complete untarnished by greed series. They also forget their is a step more to go above yonko, pirate king level.

[@LordDTwigo]

The debate is done. Anyone who says Luffy isn't "Yonko level" at this point, needs to check out and never speak again.

[@tiktokasylum5186]

You like mediocre story telling just like power ups

[@sirdamos8253]

@@tiktokasylum5186 this is ironic coming from a narutard

[@aminetaganza5613]

@@tiktokasylum5186 if zoro was the one who split the sky the story will be perfect for you zorotard 👍 you don't like it because now luffy is a yonko level character , while zoro is weaker than a 1 commander 😂😂 LMAO

[@salvalikan6982]

Luffy casually took out 50 000 fishmen with his conqueror's haki. Of course channeling that much (and probably more) haki through his fists grants him an insane power up! And when adding Kaido's own haki to the mix it's no wonder that the sky would split. Luffy is powerful but the fight will still be a hard fought one. Especially if Kaido is an awakened zoan user 😲

[@tiktokasylum5186]

That’s foder you are talking about...

[@kuraldemurhlan8580]

Interesting to hear Morj say "in reality" when talking about one piece 🤔 😀

[@vladr8968]

You are forgetting 1 thing: Raid failing does not depend on Kaidou or beast pirate crew. There is nobody on this island capable of defeating Big Mom. You can handle only 1 Yonkou at once. Marineford showed it.

[@NoOne-fo9ll]

If luffy and Yamato can beat kaido, kidd and law beating big mom wouldn't be any bigger of an asspull.

[@kingmanga8575]

Marineford didnt prove that 2 yonko can’t be defeated. It just proved that the wg allows the yonko to exist for balance. But the pirate-mink-samurai etc alliance doesn’t care about balance at all. And considering law has durability negating abilities and kid has conq haki which could bloom into advanced conq they have a decent chance at beating bm.

[@dmitrychirkov4206]

My prediction on this: I belive that BM will reach an unequal stalemate against Kidd and Traffy with a fight slowly turning in her favor. But too slowly - her crew will arrive after Kaido will be defeated and she'll just quit. No reason to fight for a fallen ally, and her sons will probably tell her the news, that BB had invaded her territory to steal the poneglyph. She'll probably recklessly chase him and die in an unfair battle. And probably loose her fearsome DF to BB. That will prove the statement about pirate alliances and create a respectful distance between Luffy and other Supernovas, since Luffy would be the only one who took down a yonko. p.s also it would be a great endgame for her as a character. There is no need for Luffy to trample on every yonko he pissed, but BB should be shown again as a crazy strong future enemy that still mirrors Luffy's path to One Piece. You noticed that the level of sympathy to BM gradually raised since she was introduced? That's for a reason, I'm sure of it.

[@jimmyjammers9947]

law kidd doesn't have the strenght individually but it is a 2v1 at the end of the day. theyre not weak big mom is stronger for sure but at the end of the day is a 2v1

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@@kingmanga8575 incorrect they don’t allow them for balance. They exist and recruit warlords (formerly) JUST to BE balanced with the Yonko.

[@vojtechtesar7114]

To be honest, him being Yonko level makes a lot of sense now but I worry about future arcs. His Gear 5 is super broken. Him attacking the Marie Geoise doesn´t seem like a challenge and beating Blackbeard neither, unless there is a huge powercreep. I hope Oda will steer this well.

[@Mannythebeaner]

I think people just aren't willing to except this because it means we're just that much closer to the end game, and they aren't ready for it to end.

[@leehunts4327]

Before watching: It doesn’t feel off, seeing him progress like this. But you could argue that it is too fast. I mean, he’s not using his gears. That said, if the raid fails, then that will show he’s still got a ways to go.

[@biologydoesntlie4093]

I mean if Luffy can grow this much in around one or two months of entering the new world then why the hell are the yonko not a hundred times stronger? They've been here for decades training/battling yet Luffy can catch up to them within 2 months? He spent 2 years training yet barley best dolfamingo on his own now he's tussling with a yonko? The strongest pirates on the sea in such short amount of time? Come on man.

[@leehunts4327]

@@biologydoesntlie4093 I don’t think progression ought to be linear. And Don’t you think Kaido and Big Mom are past their prime? Its not like they re getting infinitely stronger. But yes, the more i think about it, the more i think the raid failing is necessary in order to justify this progression.

[@deathelf7809]

@@biologydoesntlie4093 you are dumb. Doffy was near Yonkou commander level, and no that's not how it works. Decades of training means nothing if you fought fodders most of the times. Big mom, Kaido were pretty strong from the start, their fruits didn't help at all since it made them more OP. Who did big mom or kaido fought again? Did they always fight people who are very strong every damn time? It seems like you are forgetting the fact that luffy always fought strong people in each islands, did even roger did that? Nope. It was mostly because of his personality who always chase problem. Also growth isn't linear, and why you didn't complain about Zoro bs power up?

[@deathelf7809]

@@biologydoesntlie4093 "they have been there decades of training/battling" lmao what? Did you forget the part where kaido stayed in wano for 20 years, did he really have time for battling/training? Nope, And i don't think Luffy would even improve his haki much if he trained for decades without battling. How about big mom? She was never really struggled and mostly lay around in her little wonderland, she would be way stronger if she Started to yolo the marines. Note the fact that haki is about willpower, the stronger your willpower the easier for you to improve your haki. Its funny how you didn't even complain about katakuri or cp9, crocodile, arlong they lived longer than luffy and he still defeated them.

[@biologydoesntlie4093]

@@deathelf7809 I do complain but right now we're at wano so there's no point. Here's a question, ace was 20 years old when he died. As a kid he was stronger than Luffy yet here's Luffy at 19 twice as strong as marirnford ace. do you get what I'm saying? Ace was a pirate longer than Luffy with the same potential yet Luffy has surpassed his brother in less time and by a significant margin? Explain that to me.

[@hikenb7808]

It is insane to me that people always get angry about the main protagonist reaching the next level, like what else do you want from the story? Yall want luffy to be pirate king or not? Isn't that why you've been reading this series for so long? I understand the point that it was maybe a bit too fast but at this point in the story who else is luffy supposed to go against in order to become stronger? There's no warlords left for him to take down or yonko commanders that can compete with him, oda made luffy struggle and have to run away from strong opponents since sabaody, all the way to marineford. The fact people still want to see luffy get defeated by the yonkos is insane! Let's say luffy does goes down and the straw hats, what's next for them? Yall want another timeskip? Yall want luffy to return to Rayleigh for more training? Like seriously enlighten me on what is luffy supposed to do in order to justify being a yonko level pirate. After everything he has been trough.

[@vaishakhvarma]

Idk who else could be opponents for sh but like morj said, luffy has not shoed this level of growth at all ever. Luffy has a crazy growth rate and his lineage is also a factor but how can one grow from top commander to yonko? It's like saying marco is yonko lvl when we clearly see bigmom capturing him with a single hand(mind you marco was fighting very seriously). As much as a love luffy I cannot deny kaidos exp. Plus even after all the other fights kaido is pretty clean. Top tiers can fight for days like aokiji vs akainu. Luffy cannot do that. So it is hard to put luffy up there😇

[@patrickbacher7881]

People are just sad the story is getting close to the end. They felt like they had a lot more and this shows we are getting towards the end of the story.

[@patrickbacher7881]

@@vaishakhvarma he has to get there though and there is no Jump other than first commander to yonko. There are no in between steps. Does he have to defeat all of the first commanders in a tournament one at a time with the final round being him fighting 4 top commanders at the same time?

[@HTrap1996]

One word - struggle

[@hikenb7808]

@@vaishakhvarma here's how i see it(this is not directed towards you btw), Ace, luffy and sabo from a young age where fighting adults and monsters! Sabo went on to join the revolutionary army and excelled as a fighter above all the other kids training, was using advance haki at the age of 17! And became the 2nd in command, Ace went on to rose to fame and strength in little over a year, was fighting warlords and challenging yonkos, eventually becoming 2nd division commander! Hell even sengoku notes in the war that they should've noticed ace was the son of gol d roger because how fast he became so strong, alot of people even say that had ace lived he would've most definitely become pirate king, you got 2 of luffys brothers achieving such things in such a short time and people seem fine with it and don't question it! Thrn why is it such a problem that luffy is able to conquer the sea so quick? Luffy conquered east blue in a few months, took down 2 warlords, a world government top agent, a man with one of the strongest df in thr series(tho it was because of his immunity) all in a few months, no training! Somebody even points out how strong luffy is even without using haki. Then he meets a wall he can't break just yet and looses a love one because of that wall, he goes on and trains with a legendary pirate for 2 years! And comes back stronger than ever before and still growing. Now i ask this. What else do you want from luffy, i get you like the yonko and that it took them years to become this strong but isn't that what makes our luffy such an extraordinary man? That he can reach this level in such a little time. Even the pirate king himself said somebody will surpass him. People are also ok with teach becoming a yonko so quick trough what people call "cheating" but god forbids luffy becomes one too trough hard work and will power.

[@LocallyConstantDuck]

I think people misunderstand what a Yonko is. People have made it about individual power levels, but it’s really not. Being an Emperor is about the entire crew as well, with emphasis on the Captain of course. I just don’t like using terms to describe power levels when that isn’t how they are used in the story. Yes Yonko are strong, but not every strong pirate is a Yonko.

[@bulletproofman323]

Agreed, I feel the exact same way.

[@kenan-b]

"Not every strong pirate is a yonko" while this is true, you'd be hard pressed to find a pirate that's capable of taking down a yonko that isn't already a yonko themselves. Mihawk, Rayleigh are the only 2 that fit the description imo (Marco if he's lucky) and Rayleigh isn't even a pirate anymore. So it does seem to be true that you do have to reach a certain level of power to be a yonko regardless of how big your crew/empire is

[@kenan-b]

I guess kuzan as well if you now count him as a pirate

[@heyarnold7256]

Power is clearly a huge part of it though. We shouldn't pretend otherwise.

[@Perroden]

I mean luffy has already been declared the 5th emperor of the sea...

[@rafaelandrade7627]

Imagine how boring you have to be to not get extremelly overjoyed by the sight of luffy splitting the skies

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Imagine what child you have to be to get joy from mediocre story telling lol... get out of the basement buddy theirs more joy out there

[@rafaelandrade7627]

@@tiktokasylum5186 lol. Mr boooooooooring

[@aminetaganza5613]

@@tiktokasylum5186 i remember you 👀👀 you were everywhere praising zoro for doing nothing 👉 ( before rooftop ) and now you mad at luffy THE SKY SPLITTER YONKO 😂💪😎

[@Panch0_Villa]

i love how you explain your thoughts. i feel like a lot of the time i think in a similar way and hearing thoughts connect is so cool lol

[@ErnestoCifer]

Wow, last time I was this early Rocks was a rookie

[@rtk-ok1yp]

He's fighting a Yonko, he can't win if he's not on a yonko level. He wasn't yonko level until 1026, he was still learning how to use his power, now he finally figured it out, the rooftop fight was a practice for him. Things aren't as complicated as people want to make.

[@tobiramasenju6290]

Unless 50 other powerful mfs took on Kaido before Luffy got to him and after Luffy was bodied with time to rest.

[@rtk-ok1yp]

@@tobiramasenju6290 Luffy was bodied because as I said he was still trying to figure out how to use his power. And who were those 50 powerful mfs? There were only 3 ppl who looked decently against Kaido: Zoro, Yamato and Luffy. Like I said y'all love to complicate simple things.

[@wholelottaanime2408]

W

[@usif91101]

He doesn’t need to beat a yonko to be yonko lvl he did a yonko lvl feat and u r right luffy has been testing stuff and seeing how to fight against kaido even kaido himself noticed that

[@mariushager9983]

exactly what im saying. luffy just learned a skill that just boosts you up that much. first advanced armament and then conquerers. that alone propels him to that level imo

[@trickedouttech321]

Listen, Luffy has been using and understanding Haki for some time now in the story. It is completely normal and understandable in a real-world way, why Luffy is now starting to make much larger jumps in his ability quicker. Just to throw a real-world example in. It is very hard and very very time-consuming to learn guitar. However, once you get to advanced beginner or intermediate you start making a lot of progress very quickly in comparison to when you first started. As a boxer and cage fighter from back in the day. I can say the same thing for those skills as well. Once you start getting some real fights, wins & losses under your belt, you really get a boost in how quick your skill level increases. So again Luffy cannot stay a newbie forever, everyone is just going to have to accept the fact the one-piece story is on its final arcs, however many that are?

[@j_free]

Luffy trained base form and ryo in udon. Got one shot by Kaido because thunder bagua had CoC in it. After the roof top, he's figured out that you can add CoC to your attacks, and seems to have figured out how to add it.

[@komugemon8010]

Morj calling for no revisionist history is exactly why he's one of the best youtubers

[@RaffDGoat]

Thank you Morj for actually analysing the story instead of blindly 'powerscaling'👍

[@Oniguma]

Oda: takes 1026 chapters to bring Luffy to the big league Morj: is Oda rushing things?

[@ayzzart899]

*"Ok so there is one solution.."* _he is the main character_

[@jhayarcapule9328]

Remember that reyleigh stated..haki blooms in a fight especially fighting against stronger opponet..

[@sogxsway]

I would agree it is too fast cause kaido and big mom have been pirates for over 20 years while he's been a pirate for 2. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it cause he trains while his opponent could kill him he's risking his life for advanced haki just to get stronger

[@nikcantsnipe]

I haven't seen it yet but I'd say yes but actually know. It would really be more of a Katakuri fight with him adapting and getting stronger throughout the fight or maybe needing some help. I see him as just entering Yonko level and he's still at the very bottom. But one day, obviously, he will be able to.

[@Suriosty]

*beats kaido* Fandom: still not yonko level!

[@kenan-b]

@@Suriosty i mean. Kaido literally is 1 vs the raid right now. In the raid alone Luffy has had to come back several times, kaido has fought 5 supernovas (including luffy for what's about to be the 3rd time), yamato who appears to be 1st commander level at the VERY least, another literal dragon, all 9 scabbards (including strong ones like ashura doji and denjiro and inu/neko) and he has basically soloed them all, obviously fighting alongside big mom here and there. I think if luffy ends up dealing a finishing blow on kaido soon, anyone who says he still isn't yonko level is actually justified, considering that in a true 1v1 i think it's clear everyone on this island except for big mom is losing cleanly to kaido

[@kenan-b]

Well, let me correct myself. Like Brago says, luffy would be "yonko caliber" as in, able to fight a yonko without just getting bodied, but not being capable of beating one himself. He'd be in the "yonko tier" just at the bottom

[@miyamotomusashi692]

@@kenan-b exatly

[@rafiki4191]

@@Suriosty by your logic marineford blackbeard was yonko level because he killed whitebeard with help.

[@BautistaGresch]

For me, the most "problematic" thing about Luffy's growth is actually his age. Luffy is way younger than the other yonko when they reached their status. Big Mom, Kaido, Teach, Shiki, Roger, Garp, Xebec, Oden, all of these people had their prime during their middle age and after. And also, they all look way stronger than Luffy, who is just a teen with a slender physique. I'm not saying that Luffy can't be strong because he is a teen or because of his appearance, but it certainly bothers me when compared to his supposed peers. Katakuri is another example, he is nearing his 50s and Luffy was arguably as strong as him during their fight, let alone right now. I think the problem is with Oda making all these characters way older than the mcs.

[@ayzzart899]

Yeahhhhhhh even i have the same problem

[@ddl385]

Crocodile was also beating Luffy effortlessly in their first fight. Even in the second fight, he did better against Luffy than Kaido did in their second fight.

[@JulianCaesaro]

Yo idk, all things considered I think Kaido really wanted to lose. Like, his best motivation was “Yo this is fun and I can kill you at anytime… But I kinda like fighting against you like this a lot more.”, until Kaido legit lost

[@icriinside9305]

Man it has been stated a billion times that haki grows extremely fast in the heat of a battle after luffy learned an advance version of haki in the prison now in the first fight he has to use it and the more he used it the more got the hang of it and Luffy when he came back the second time he had a break from fighting so he regained his haki while kaido didn't stop fighting for a second cuz Yamato was there and didn't have time to regain his haki and Luffy when he's fighting kaido in base form isn't based on physical power it's based on power of haki

[@DJamz-xp7dc]

Against ulti and Paige one he was conserving energy as yamato said to him after their clash you were holding back in other Words him and zoro were saving energy for the real clash Vs kaido and BM

[@machina5]

Luffy's slow progress against Katakuri wasn't just him learning to upgrade his observation, he was also learning *how to learn* .

[@mohamedabdallah2565]

It's not like he improved physically he just learned how to use the conquers haki after seeing kaido doing it with his sharingan

[@mage8486]

Luffy wasn't ready when Morgans called him the "fifth emporor"....but he's ready now.

[@TengouX]

To be fair, I still think the growth Luffy showed in Wano is about on par with the growth he has shown between Water 7 and Enies Lobby. In those two arcs he went from being utterly outclassed and not being able to do a thing to CP9 to defending himself competently against the strongest of them in his base form. That took 24 hours and there was no training in between. The difference in strength between Water 7 and Enies Lobby was explained fully by 'conviction'. Essentially, I think his nascent haki/willpower had become stronger, even if no direct mention had been made of that at the time. In Wano, he also went from being essentially oneshot to standing toe to toe with the boss, but unlike Water 7/Enies Lobby, he actively trained to master his abilities for several weeks and even had a formal teacher to show him the fundamentals of Ryuo. If you consider Luffy's haki/willpower to be growing passively throughout the series, layering training on top of that will make his growth even quicker. Combining all this, I don't feel that Luffy's improvement was too fast. If anything, this feels like him 'blossoming' and realizing his true potential. As for the rooftop itself, I think that was simply the moment all the potential he had been building up released all at once.

[@bane3123]

He will for sure , oda writes all these rules or statements like no one should punch a celestial dragon or katakuri never been on his back etc.. just to be broken by luffy and kaido is no exception . kaido will loose 1vs 1 against luffy. Ppl may argue kaido fought So many characters but no one gave kaido a devastating blow like law(gamma knife) assisted luffy against doflamingo. Kaido isn't even concerned about loosing. Luffy will definitely give kaido a*s whooping of his life