Did Martin Harris Physically See the Gold Plates?

Did Martin Harris really actually see the gold plates or did he just hallucinate?
When John H. Gilbert was typesetting the text of the Book of Mormon for printing, he asked Martin Harris, “Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?” Martin responded, “No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.”
Lots of critics of the Church use this and similar accounts to claim that Martin must not have really seen the plates, and so the Gold Plates can’t actually have been real, physical artifacts.
There are multiple problems with all of these accounts, but EVEN IF these accounts are 100% accurate, if we want to really understand if Martin actually saw the plates or not, we need to understand what “spiritual sight” would have meant to 1800s America in general and to Martin Harris specifically, because it’s not what you think!
.
#lds #prolds #churchofjesuschrist #ldschurchhistory #josephsmith #goldplates #martinharris

[@saspen3]

I think the idea of spiritual vs physical eyes is interesting, since our physical eyes only see other physical objects, depending upon light refraction. Our physical eyes can play tricks on us, depending on how much light there is, and the shadow play on objects. Our eyes are only 1 means of detecting reality. A blind person doesn’t have to see that someone is nearby, to know/sense that they are there. We can "see" with our other senses too.

[@JSandLDS]

If they were physically there , why did Martin Harris say that it was his presence preventing the plates being seen and have to go off, leaving the other two to see, them, and then only see them later after a ( no-doubt stern) talking-to from Joseph? If the plates are there, you just look at them. No need for Angels and visions and faith. Plus, if they had seen them for real, Joseph would have capitalised on it and made that fact perfectly clear in the Book, not say wooly things like , it being revealed by the power of God.

[@sdfotodude]

Martin also walked with a deer for several miles conversing with it as if it were Jesus. He also testified that James Strang translated Gold Plates

[@henochparks]

sure pal hahaha

[@sdfotodude]

@@henochparks You might want to learn your own church's history. Google either claim.

[@henochparks]

@@sdfotodude `First of all I have 2 x 2year university degrees in LDS history and doctrine. And You? Second what I have learned is anti Mormons will make up stories or leave out facts, or twist LDS history. Martin Harris was asked if he saw the plates in just his "minds eye" He said he held and turned the pages. Anti Mormons ignore Harris's clarification.. Then they make up lies or twist history. Today inspite of the well known clarification haters still try to deceive to attack Mormons....You might learn not to attempt to decieve people.

[@mysticcrh]

“Gentlemen, do you see that hand? Are you sure you see it? Are your eyes playing a trick or something? No. Well, as sure as you see my hand so sure did I see the angel and the plates.” - Martin Harris

[@kuriju88]

He saw the plates as one sees a city through a mountain

[@gregstewart7288]

MmmmHmmm. Still not convinced. That’s a lot of rationalizing gibberish to try to get me to believe in something with so many other troubling problems.

[@albertofernandez6814]

Your post are always informative and testimony building! Keep it up!!

[@scriptureplus]

Thank you! I appreciate that! ❤️

[@Sirwalter2008]

If JS his holding the plates in his physical hands, how the one beside has to see it through spiritual eyes... I mean, come on God, let him see with his physical eyes, you can do anything. Too many explanations for trying to explain that spiritual eyes is as good as physical eyes.

[@wow561]

Your analysis strains credulity! We do not need “divine authorization” to view a physical object. Either Martin saw the plates, or he didn’t. It’s clear from his own statement that he did not physically see them!

[@raullimon6582]

It is your opinion that you don't need divine authorization to view physical objects, cool. There are others that also believe they can put words in God's mouth, things he would and wouldn't say, even do! Ok? I know what would be logical for ME for Him to do, not do, say, not say, allow, not allow, but gotten to the point that I just "Let it be"! That's just me though.

[@michaelmichaelc1748]

There will always be doubters and critics. Some people just don't want to believe snd without a measure or desire to believe you just can't come to know the things of God. The Saviour stood there right in front of people s eyes yet they did not believe. They killed him like they did to Joseph and Hyrum. The reality of the truthfulness of the the Book of Mormon is spiritually known through the power of the Holy Ghost. Faithfully keeping the Lord's commandments, study and prayer. The Lord has witnessed to me many times it is his work and his word . Such lovely feelings of peace and warmth that brings joy to my soul, illuminating my mind. While they who reject this glad message shall never such happiness know. Many thanks for your work and for scripture central. May The Lord bless you all ❤🙏😊

[@raullimon6582]

WOWZERS!!! Breathe while you talk! You go SOOOO fast that there were times I had to stop and rewind to hear what you were saying! Otherwise, always love your video shorts.

[@omar-uu8qo]

I agree with her, but the feminist movement has definitely caused women to be more anxious,Fast talking and clapping hands

[@joshuaerickson8888]

Meh, I listened at 1.75x speed and didn’t find it difficult to follow.

[@whatsup3270]

The post was pulled as the wrong formula had been used, once corrected the post was irrelevant. So for a replacement using a standard sheet of paper (8 1/2" x 11") the total gold would stack less than 5/8". The unsealed section would be about 1/4" and that would allow 8 sheets (16 pages of writing) at 1/32" thickness, or possibly 16 sheets (32 pages of writing) at 1/64"

[@joshuaerickson8888]

Actually, it’s quite a bit larger than a golf ball. I saw your post and was curious if it was true. I did the calculations with a density of 19.3g/cm3 for gold (not that the plates were pure gold - they certainly weren’t). This will give us a lower bound. A 40 lb ball of gold will have a diameter of 12.15 cm. For comparison a softball has a diameter of only 9.7 cm, and a golf ball a diameter of merely 4.27 cm.

[@joshuaerickson8888]

@@whatsup3270 I’m going to annoyingly check the math again. If we are comparing two spheres: one with a diameter of 12.15 and the other with a diameter of 4.27 (the units are irrelevant here). The larger sphere will not contain 4 of the smaller ones. It will contain a little more than 23 of them. 23 golf balls worth of gold! You embarrass yourself by saying it was only 1, and embarrass yourself further by saying it was only 4. Your assertions are off by an order of magnitude.

[@whatsup3270]

@@joshuaerickson8888 The ball is listed at 1.68 inches tall so r= 0.84', and r squared = 0. 7056 (0.7056) times pi times 4 = 8.86 cubic inch 8.86 times 0.698 lb/in3= 6.19 pounds for a gold golf ball 40lbs = 6.46 golf balls That is 2 to 3.23 golf balls (maximum) of gold to turn into a 535 page book, are we okay 50%-67% of the gold is to be sealed and unused

[@whatsup3270]

@@joshuaerickson8888 well i laid out the math. utube rejected it

[@whatsup3270]

@@joshuaerickson8888 FYI a surface area formula had been accidentally substituted for a volume formula.

[@phav1832]

Most sources for most histories are from sources that are 2nd or 3rd hand and written down years, sometimes decades, after the fact. They have value, but most critics of the Church insist on a clarity that the data simply do not support.

[@sdnlawrence5640]

This is just sad. Pray for her. Read the Bible. Read the Church Fathers; read Maximus the Confessor; read Gregory Palamas. Orthodoxy has been teaching about spiritual sight and vision for 2,000 years. Read the Bible. Don't read fake "translations" of non-existant things.

[@tybaltmarr2158]

Did Stephen actually see Christ's physical body in Acts 7:56? If he only saw it with his "spiritual sight", how can we be sure Christ has retained his physical body in heaven? Christ has a physical body in heaven, so it's fair to say that you can see real, physical things in a vision, or with spiritual sight.

[@saspen3]

The Bible today isn't a credible witness on its own. It has undergone many translations and even today we still see more "modern" translations of it. By the mouths of two or three witnesses is the truth established. The Bible is 1 witness or (2 witnesses in 1) of Christ. The Book of Mormon is an additional witness of Christ. Surely Christ's declaration that He is the Only Begotten Son of the Father and Savior of mankind, becomes more credibile with more testimony, not less? More revelations are coming in the future. Lost records will be unearthed. The Jews were not the only witnesses that Christ would come. But their record which we now have, warrants our thanks to them for their perseverance to preserve and bring it to us by their sacrifice and persecution. Will you reject what's coming and remain in the dark?

[@Bluewater9]

❤A great spiritual divine office of the Gospel, structured, aligned , And in the fullness of Gods Grace and Will of Love. ❤ I’ve had several dreams while growing up, All by spiritual eye, Amen…❤

[@homesteading60]

You talk so fast...it would be ok to slow down a little bit.