Did Medieval People Wear Black?

[@jennieeveleighlamond]

Any thrifty elder goth can tell you that even with modern dyes and mordants it is nearly impossible to get non-black clothing really black. So. Many. Failed dye experiments. So, so many.

[@lazarusmorgenstern2536]

Ahh, the joys of getting dressed and forgetting that your older clothes aren't black-black anymore; realising once you're outside that your pants are reddish-black, your shirt is greenish-black and your jacket is blueish-black. Like a walking chromatic aberration.

[@Bildgesmythe]

What about undressing and finding your skin is purple black?

[@endelosecosplay1302]

Discussions that happen between my husband and me regularly. "Does this black match this black still or do you think the shades are too far?" Also "Can you turn on that light too I can't figure out which black 'insert garment name' is mine in the laundry you brought up yesterday."

[@Amy_the_Lizard]

@@endelosecosplay1302 I've done that... ^_^'

[@chris-lk4ml]

After dying my washed-black jeans blue, i thought i should burn them. So Im happily found a solution. 😊

[@KateKanenator]

Fun fact about ninjas: most actual ninjas didn't wear black. Or rather. . . They wore all different colors. The black clothes stereotype comes from Japanese theater. Stagehands would wear black and stay onstage as part of the sets. Sometimes actors playing ninjas would dress in black and act like stagehands until they made their surprise entrances onstage.

[@valkyrie1066]

I have used the japanese stagehands as the very reason many food places require all black clothing. We are to function, not to "be seen".

[@logansmith2703]

Also they were basically just normal samurai that happened to also be spies

[@samuelmelcher]

God, imagine being in the audience the first time a background stagehand stepped into the show and killed someone. That would have been nuts

[@isabelledescarries5593]

So masquarade ninja are the original black ninja!...😂

[@GiantBeardedFace1]

My favorite fan-theory that I ever read on Tumblr was about The Witcher. Geralt in the Netflix series is always seen wearing black leathers and black clothing, but this is a fantasy analogue of the Medieval period, so how can he wear that much black without going broke? Well, it's quite simple: the ichor that monsters bleed is *also* black, and Geralt is constantly killing monsters! So, his gear isn't necessarily dyed, it's bloodstained. The post concluded with stating that he could have bottled the ichor and sold it to dyers to make a fortune.

[@annasstorybox7906]

Yes! I guess all fantasy can get away with stuff like that as soon as it plays in a different world than ours. Who sais that Middle earth, Narnia or whatever fictional world can't have different recourses? There is stuff like mythril and other fictional materials so accepting different pigments available as a unquestionable given thing. It becomes tricky with fantasy stories set in an actual time period. Depending on the level of fantastical stuff it can make sense, a god come to the real world can easily have stuff rarely seen and done by normal people, but everyone just having special stuff doesn't make sense. In Harry Potter the Muggles still behave normally and the wizards (the fantasy element of the universe) stand out. So in a movie telling the story of a norse saga I still imagine the regular people wearing regular clothing. Looking at something like the legend of Siegfried I still imagined the items to look like what people of the time it's supposed to be set in were used to but with fantastical properties or especially mentioned charakteristics. Looking at ancient myths it's assumed that the regular warrior fighting alongside Achilles and all the heroes are wearing standard armor. Especially when heroes are described to have something special. That mention suggests that the described specialty would be something not normal to the people of the time. Aka a myth, legend or saga describing a golden sword wielded by the heroe doesn't mean that people at that time had golden swords. The hero cleaving through his enemy and his horse including their armor so just the medieval equivalent of a modern day action hero jumping through a window onto the roof of a car while shooting bad guys and surviving it without a scratch...

[@audpicc]

I just saw an awesome video by Great Big Story about a small island off of Japan that has been dyeing truly black black silk for hundreds of years. After googling around it was hard to pinpoint an actual date (1300 is the earliest I saw), and most of the stories seem to be mostly legend rather than extant historical documentation. BUT the island of Amami Oshima is famous for making a truly black dye out of completely unprocessed natural materials. They start out by dyeing the white silk yarns a rich red with yeddo hawthorne, a local tree species. Then they bury and wash the threads in mud several times over. The mud there has superfine grains and a high iron content so it's probably very chemically similar to what happens in iron gall ink. But it comes out BLACK black. Gorgeous. The dye is called dorosome and the silk cloth made with this technique is typically woven with small intricate patterns and is used almost exclusively in kimono.

[@shelahhorvitz3838]

Fascinating. The way to make a rich black in painting is to mix compliments. So if you overdye red with a deep low chroma green, you will get not just a black but a rich, lively black.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Amami Oshima is famous for their silks in general, but they really nailed the dying processes! Their blacks and yellows are particularly prized, as both are difficult to make lightfast - yellow dyes are notorious for fading easily too, but they figured out some methods for brilliant yellows that can stand the test of time far better than most other natural dyes. They're also famous for a kind of silk called "tsumigi", which has a slightly rougher texture, looking a bit like dupioni, which is made from the leftover bits and pieces of cocoon from the process of making their "top quality" silk. It's now prized as an artisanal product to the point that any silk labeled "Oshima Tsumugi" is almost automatically higher priced than the originally more prized smooth silk! It's got a lovely, soft texture to touch, and holds dyes beautifully.

[@rickshaw1971]

Indigo over dark brown wool is a nice deep black-adjacent colour.

[@reneeadams6684]

My medieval studies course on movies really hit the nail on the head. Media set in past periods says more about the time period they were made in than it does the time period it's supposed to be about.

[@cecileroy557]

Yup - same with hair styles!!! 😄

[@Veerlejf]

Sheep have an amazing array of shades, I feel like not enough people are taking advantage of that. Also Iron tannin dye is terrible for natural fibres on the long term, it breaks them down. I've worked with museum textiles, and sometimes the dark stripes have almost entirely disappeared while the main fabric is still in perfect condition.

[@TheWelshViking]

It makes leather super brittle as well. I meant to include the issues with it degrading fibres but managed to forget!

[@counter10r]

@@TheWelshViking Not to mention that it can literally burn out parchment over time as well.

[@TheWelshViking]

@@counter10r Holy moly! I didn't know that!

[@varde42]

Any chance You could recommend where to buy wool from black (and other non white) sheep? I only know of daughterofashepherd for now.

[@counter10r]

@@varde42 Your question got me googling--and it's hard to find! I came across a Czech site that seems to do small batches of undyed, brown wool and seems to do historical costuming supply. You should inquire first--I haven't dealt with them. handwovenwool.com

[@armedvsokord]

Blue can be the new Goth. I'm ok with this

[@TheWelshViking]

Ooh, like a midnight blue velvet? Yum.

[@rachelboersma-plug9482]

Evil Eyeliner Jimmy gave me quite a turn.

[@TheWelshViking]

He’s pretty harmless, but he certainly startled me when he first appeared!

[@cassandragibson1398]

I can't provide a historical source, but what my local natural dye expert does for an optical black is a first dye bath of indigo (either from the indigo plant or woad) and then a second dye bath of walnut hulls that were harvested green, and left to soak in water until water goes dark and the hulls break down.

[@Maellen]

That's similar to what was done in Iberia.

[@morgansmith8178]

I've done it the other way - walnut hulls underdye and indigo overdye. It works either way, I think.

[@Gilleban]

Just be careful with that walnut dye...it takes its job seriously...

[@snazzypazzy]

@@Gilleban I experimented with a dye with just a few hulls. Had yellowy fingers for a week.

[@seanhampson4126]

I was wondering if walnuts would make a good substitute. glad I saw this comment.

[@Martyntd5]

Deep, jet-black leather is easy. You can make it yourself. Take some wire wool (or any scraps of iron but wire wool is quickest because it's fine) and fill a jam jar with it. Then fill the jar with vinegar (any will do but I use white vinegar). Put a lid on it and leave it for about 2 weeks. The wire wool should rust out. The reaction will produce gas as the vinegar disolves the steel wool, so be sure to open the lid daily to let the gas escape. Coarsely filter the vinegar/iron solution to take out the sludge and whatever is left of the wire wool and you'll end up with a straw coloured liquid. This reacts rapidly and deeply with anything that contains tannin. Dip a piece of veg-tan leather into it and the leather will turn jet-black in a matter of seconds. You can dip dye, paint it on, whatever. After dyeing, the leather needs to be washed, preferably with a baking soda solution to neutralise it, but it's permanent and it is very black indeed. As it's a reaction rather than a dye, it doesnt rub off. I've used it often in leatherwork projects because it makes a better black than modern dyes IMO. It's an absolutely ancient recipe.

[@TheWelshViking]

Vinegaroon. Jet black might be a touch overstating it! We also have to remember a complete lack of evidence for it in many periods. I love the stuff, I use it for all sorts of dyeing projects

[@Martyntd5]

@@TheWelshViking I dont know about the history of it, I'm a leather worker not a reenactor. But Iron and vinegar have been around for a very long time. Also vinegar is used by blacksmiths to pickle steel. I think it might be a case of the solution being so common it doesnt merit mentioning. I cant imagine any society with a blacksmith, a brewery and a tannery, not knowing of it. If you're not getting a deep black, then use more steel wool and/or leave if for longer. It's as black as any modern dye I've ever seen. Just be sure to neutralise it if you're using it on leather that is going to end up anywhere near a steel blade.

[@TheWelshViking]

Good to know about the nautralising, thanks for that!

[@Martyntd5]

@@TheWelshViking No problem. I'm surprised there is not historical evidence of it's use though. Like I said, blacksmiths use vinegar to pickle steel and leather to protect themselves and pretty much always have. The three would have come together by accident, probably with irritating frequency. The whole thing could be done at 'village' level without the need for any imported specialist ingredients (except iron). It's inconceivable to me that it wasn't known about as long as man has been tanning leather, brewing alcohol and forging steel. The Vikings were pretty good at all three werent they? Furthermore, vinegaroon is a through dye, not a surface dye, which is perfect for heavy use leather that will get scratched, cut and dinged up, such as on footwear, belts, armour, scabbards etc. It's also a great colour for hiding stains, dirt, oils etc and will not look shabby as quickly as brown or other shades. IMO, I wouldnt be surprised if vinegaroon was extensively used. The question is, is the absence of a written record a good reason not to use it? As they say, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[@thekarategirl5787]

Stereotypical Viking Jimmy is really funny. This style of video is amazing

[@999Giustina]

I thought that was his KISS impression but didn't have white on hand.

[@eazy8579]

@@999Giustina can’t wait for 300 years from now when people are reenacting the 2000s and 2010s and they start showing people in crazy black and white face paint based on KISS and ICP

[@catzkeet4860]

Even today black dye is rarely black. It's usually very dark either green or blue that " reads" black. As well as the issues with ferrous dyes causing deterioration to textiles, it also doesn't do anything for the "hand" of fabric or thread/yarns, causing the fibre to be rough and harsh wool in particular. In areas that have volcanic activity, iron rich muds were, and are still used to dye. Again it's a ferrous dye tho, that fades and isn't really true black.

[@saschap3419]

Totally enjoyable lesson about black clothing. When I want to dye something black (mostly wool), I use Phéllodon melaléucus or Phéllodon tomentósus, both mushrooms. Yes I also need alum, potassium bitartrate and a pH about 8-9. It gets really dark, almost bluish black. And yes, the colour fades, but not much and quite slowly. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@TheWelshViking]

Oh that’s fabulous! I must try mushroom dyeing, thank you for the idea and the advice on their use

[@morgansmith8178]

I am SO glad you made this video. I've tried for years to explain what the difference was between early medieval black and it's sources, and modern blacks. I understood this very early, because I went to art college, and was taught that there is a "visual black" as opposed to a modern chemical "black", and that it had as much to do with what the black was in contrast to (and what people expect to see. I've dyed things "visual black" using walnut dye overdyed with indigo, and I *think* it would work with woad of sufficient strength and intensity, but woad is hard to come by in western Canada. (It's considered a noxious weed and we aren't supposed to grow our own.) I haven't tried using red + indigo. Fun fact: you know how in older books, they describe someone's clothes as "rusty black"? That's the underdye brown showing through the overdye on the cloth, because places where there is constant friction (wrists, elbows, etc) and it wears away the overdye.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Hey, a fellow Canadian textile artist! Yes, that difference between "visual" and "chemical" black is truly a thing that modern eyes aren't accustomed to. And just fyi, I haven't had an entirely easy time coming by woad in Ontario either, so you're not alone there. I might be able to grow it if I had room for a garden, but alas, apartment gardens just don't allow for enough volume for making dyestuffs. Otherwise I'd have the most interesting balcony garden in my building! Also very familiar with the "rusty black" phenomenon! I collect antique clothing pieces when I can afford to, and I've got a few rusty blacks around. My favourite is a late-Victorian priest's cassock where the black has faded to nearly red in places! The construction, fabric, stitching, and all that are beautiful and in lovely condition, and I think the fading only adds to its charm.

[@GaraksApprentice]

It's a good thing I wasn't drinking coffee when your goth/Viking friend showed up. My keyboard would have been toast. Nice eyeliner! ;-)

[@richardcuttswoof]

Ironically these days getting hold of undyed natural "black wool" in order to make Benedictine kit is harder than getting brightly dyed and goth Black stuff.

[@TheWelshViking]

Right!? I'm looking to get some nice Manx Loghtan wool. Lovely and dark and full of lanolin.

[@richardcuttswoof]

@@TheWelshViking tried barry gaynor?

[@RianeBane]

To be fair, the Rule of St. Benedict, which the Benedictine order was founded on, says this about clothing: "Monks must not complain about the color or coarseness of all these articles [of clothing], but use what is available in the vicinity at a reasonable cost." (Ch. 55, line 7) So in a sense, using regular modern black cloth would actually be in keeping with the guidelines of medieval monks, if that's what is available :)

[@ayishas4385]

This is why you get such English phrases as "pitch black," "inky black," "jet black," and "sloe black", to describe things that are extraordinarily black -- because most "black" prior to modern chemical dyes were what we would call brown or dark grey. It goes for other colours too: "red fox" "robin redbreast" and "red hair" are all what we would hardly even consider saturated enough to call "orange", let alone red. These changes in the names of colours is mostly in the last 100 years. It's curious for me, having grown up in the 90s, to realise that colour chemistry has changed even since then. For instance, most purple was not lightfast when I was a kid, enough that I heard it remarked on a lot -- it's one of my early memories of gaining knowledge about colour. Yet it's not a topic of conversation any more -- you might get cheap purple clothes that fade, but it's not a given in the same way. Btw, love that last "you really should give him a couple of quid" bit. Ha ha! If I had any quid or dollars to spare, I would.

[@LisaJedi]

The darkest wool I've ever spun was a black Welsh Mountain lamb's fleece- still have some of it. I think there was some Corrieadale in the miz as well. Nearly black & absolutely gorgeous! I will rummage around to see what I have left, if you'd like some?

[@HosCreates]

😍 how much?

[@michaelcarnelian]

One thing I always find fascinating is the way that colour changes. The blue of the early medieval period is not the same as the blue of the modern age. Certain colours couldn't be created in dye form before the 1856 discovery of synthetic aniline dyes (which are very bright indeed). A very interesting area and an excellent video!

[@cactusc9519]

" i would love it if the vikings were the gothiest things on earth " " everything fades in the.... " - pastel goth

[@kaciescorner]

Sorry time: I decided, about a week ago, that I needed a more era appropriate look for the Texas Viking festival that I will be attending this weekend. I decided that I should hand sew myself a whole new outfit because my usual garb is from the wrong era and is black. Everything in my nerdy head told me I couldn’t wear black to a Viking festival cause my black was too black. I had to use whatever fabric I already had in the house because no time to try and get to a fabric store. I figured I didn’t have time to dye the white fabric I had, but I had a dark grey bolt of something I figured I might be able to pass off as wool. I had no pattern and decided to research while I work and just went off whatever residual knowledge my nerdy self had acquired. All of this to say: when you revealed that the darkest black you could get was a dark grey I threw up my stitching and did a happy dance! I was going to be so mad if I had made the wrong choice but seeing that my mad dash to hand stitch a new outfit was worth it because the color would be right made it all worth it. I will be living off that high for weeks. Thank you so much! Also: thanks for the company as I stitched this monstrosity together! I’ve pretty much binged the whole channel as I worked on this project. 💗

[@samanthajovanovic5312]

I was wondering if there was a bit of a disconnect between the black represented in literature/illuminations and what was actually done IRL, and you did talk about how iron gall looks different on parchment/paper/etc. than wool. I am an objects conservator and during grad school, we covered iron gall a little bit. A lot of ink has been spilled talking about iron gall ink (haha). Mostly it was to tell us that it was pretty terrible stuff aging-wise and it just destroys anything it touches. Literature written with iron gall (esp. paper) was SUPER fragile. Thank you for this highly informative video! I enjoy how well researched your videos are. It is obvious that you put a lot of time and energy to make them as accurate and informative as possible. It is appreciated.

[@PNN_ParodyNewsNetwork]

Nearly 3000 subscribers, bro you got 60k plus now, well done!

[@FriidaK]

Crow berries are supposed to colour black 🖤 I’ve been wanting to try it, and now that I’m up in the mountains I have a chance to harvest some and try🤓 I’ll update you with the results👌🏻 (I’ll also cut a bit of wool off my mums really dark brown fleece, so I can colour over that as well, 🤫shhh don’t tell her🤫 )

[@latronqui]

Hi, can you tell me what happened?

[@witchmojo13]

This was so informative and a lot of fun. More Grumpy Eyeliner Jimmy please 😁

[@merindymorgenson3184]

According to the Fleece and Fiber Sourcebook, Black Welsh Mountain sheep have a true black wool. She also stated that they have been bred for many years for the color, so I don’t know if they would have been as black back in medieval times. The other true black wool (per the book) is from Karakul lambs, though the color may dim as they get older, apparently. If you have not seen/read the book and if you have any interest in spinning/weaving wool, it is an excellent book that I have turned to many times over the years. There is a shorter “Field Guide” too, if you’d rather have the cliff’s notes version, or if you need a more portable version to take with you. It’s one of my favorite non-fiction books. One of the authors, Deb Robson, is also an extremely nice and personable person. I’m sure the other author is as well, I just haven’t met her. This is a very interesting and informative video! Thanks for sharing. When we were in Bangladesh, black thread had a reputation for breaking more easily than other threads. I’m wondering if it has something to do with the caustic-ness of the dye process weakening the fibers. I didn’t really notice any difference in the couple garments I made with the black thread, but then again, that was polyester thread, so perhaps the fibers would break down less.

[@TheWelshViking]

They are very dark indeed, but not jet black. Most of them are brown, but some are really, really dark (and I’ve seen a couple, the breed is from a few minutes from my hometown!). But I agree with you totally, it’s likely there would have been more variation prior to their selective breeding for their colouring.

[@merindymorgenson3184]

The Welsh Viking I am jealous of your proximity to Welsh Black Mountain sheep! I would love to purchase and get to spin some! You’ll have to watch out for a wool stalker if I ever get overseas to find some. You’ll know me by the dark jacket and glasses and sneaking along the field to surprise unsuspecting sheep. ( But I just want to feel the fiber, hold still!) 😂

[@nuttemcnutt2508]

I have a theory that you can get a pretty good idea of the range of color of early medieval clothing in the "too poor to dye"-segment by image googling two terms: villsau (=vikingsau=gammelnorsk sau), which is the oldest known "breed" of sheep in norway, and spælsau (=gammelnorsk spælsau) which is a decendant of the villsau but from pretty far back, my impression is that both would be available in the viking age but i'm not a sheep expert. They come in all kinds of colors on the black-white-brown-range, but i guess it depends what you consider black-black. But also, why limit yourself to sheep? If you know people who make their own yarn you'll notice that those guys will try to spin anything, and dog fur is relatively common. It is usually recommended to mix it 50/50 with sheep wool but your darkest sheep mixed with your black dog should make a pretty black yarn i think? Not sure what dogs would be available, but i think norsk buhund and norsk elghund sort could be good contenders here, perhaps some sort of lapphund... Or any other animal you could think of, human hair included. I mean, if your viking persona is goth enough i think they could do it.

[@kahn04]

Between my living history gig and working in the medieval section of a museum I end up talking about this a lot! Great video

[@agypsycircle]

Weird face painted Jimmy is hilarious! Love the video and One day I’ll be able to play with natural dyes lol!

[@annemariesijm1091]

I dont know in wich time period they started waxing lether but it’s fairly easy to get your lether realy dark using a mixture of animal fat and bees wax with some fine pounded charcol in it. You do need to aply it hot

[@SirFrederick]

I know someone that made a "modern" black with Barberry (Berberis). Don't know if that grows over there. Also I've just used Vinegaroon (liquid ferus sulfate) to dye leather black. Aparently that was around in Roman Times. P.S. I'm making Gaul Ink now. Ran out of Gum Arabic, so got to wait to finish.

[@thebratqueen]

Dang it! You missed the chance to ask if he puts his eyeliner on before he gets on the ship or just before the raid happens! Now we'll never know!

[@TwoMikesProductions]

Shirtless black eyeliner Jimmy via Danhausen is perfect and now your new wrestling persona. Its written. I've booked it. You cannot change this.

[@SolisScriptorivm]

Firstly, what a kickass thumbnail! Secondly, thank you so much for the shout-out ❤️ Thirdly, your alter ego is my new favorite thing. And finally, thank you for all this information! I haven't looked much into medieval fabric dyeing techniques and this just opened up a whole new rabbit hole.

[@paperclipfantasy5961]

Would love to see an episode all about natural dyeing, maybe a several part series to see your progress/experiments.

[@giacomomontanari4985]

What I didn't expect clicking on this video was to be jumpscared by an half naked Jimmy ahahahah Also, iron (II) sulphate gives me Vietnam flashbacks from my bachelor thesis

[@hazeluzzell]

Yes, you can die black on wool and silk. Linen is a bit harder...but it has a yellow ‘base’ and fades. (Yes it does). However, if you dye with madder first and then over-dye with woad, you get a lovely black that doesn’t fade. It would have been expensive to do. It was a colour worn at court particularly in France. You don’t have to use indigo and kermes unless you really are a big show off. ‘Black’ sheep wool, as you said, fades like heck. It even fades on the sheep. A quicker, cheaper way to make black is to use a ‘black’ sheep fleece and over-dye that with woad. It doesn’t fade. I put my skein out in whatever sun was around at every show for a year, and it didn’t fade at all. All that said, black would have been a pain in the butt to do and, black dye that faded would have to be re dyed every year, as was done with the clothes of the poor up to fairly modern times, each time with a darker colour.. we’re talking aniline dyes now.

[@binaryglitch64]

Okay crazy face paint Jimmy is officially my favorite right now... had me rolling.

[@azteclady]

"Black sheep are not black, black sheep are BROWN!" Also: cochineal red (to help achieve true/modern black) was not available in Europe for a few centuries (edit: after the Twelfth Century) and until the colonization of what is now Mexico.

[@samanthajovanovic5312]

The cochineal caught me for a second as well.

[@TheWelshViking]

@@samanthajovanovic5312 Yeah, it was just an example of something that can be used, should have clarified.

[@thelimelightcollective8431]

There are also breeds of European lice or aphids that can also be used for red pigment.

[@azteclady]

@@TheWelshViking My apologies, I latched into that because (see handle) and didn't consider sources of red dies available in Europe.

[@TheWelshViking]

@@azteclady Apologies returned in a nicely wrapped parcel. I don't need 'em and you're totally fine by me! :-D

[@DAYBROK3]

i have some black welsh mountain fleece from sheep, except for some tips its black, black black. i am taking university arts fibres, just went through a natural dying module. i got some great colours with garden plant material. i found a decorative corn pollen produces this pretty sky blue. way different than indigo.

[@TheWelshViking]

They are very black indeed, but I’ve shorn a couple of hundred in my time and never met one that’s totally and fully jet black yet! Some are close though, definitely, especially after spinning and plying into a tighter yarn.

[@SLorraineE]

I just made Viking Halloween costumes for me and my husband. Mine is pinkish reds and my husband's is mostly brown. I had several people seem surprised that my costume specifically was so colorful

[@canucknancy4257]

Thanks for making history so much fun. I have two bags full of sheep wool downstairs that I got from a local farmer. I have to seriously get on with washing, spinning, and trying out all the different colours that natural ingredients can produce. (I don't know if I'll be as adventurous as to try to get black). I just about spit out my tea when you started singing Joseph. Thanks for being you and doing what you do. Take care

[@oliviahamilton8654]

Love this. I dye yarn for my friends shop and even taking natural dyes out of consideration, a really juicy black is a time intensive and touchy thing to dye in fiber. Bonus points for the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dream Coat reference.

[@CrisSelene]

As someone interested in fashion history (as a part of cultural history, in general) this was very interesting. Especially your forays into DIY dyes. Michel Pastoureau's book Black: The History of a Colour mentions the way they produced black in the early Middle Ages and how it looked.

[@ladygray6522]

As usual, you’ve taught me so much! Getting ready to make a little girls Viking dress. Good to know blue is a “fashion color.”

[@carlajohnson8959]

I don't know if it was available in Europe during Viking times or not but I just saw an article that stated manganese oxide (dioxide) was used to create a less light sensitive black dye that was also a richer dark color

[@TheWelshViking]

I don’t think it was discovered until much later, and certainly wasn’t known in Europe unfortunately

[@laulutar]

Historically Inaccurate Jimmy is hilarious and gave me a much needed giggle this Monday morning 😄 As a knitter (and somewhat obsessive collector of yarn) though, I can say that the variety of naturally "black" wool runs from dark brown to a dark grey, at least today. Also, there are some sheep breeds, particularly in Northern Europe (like the Kainuu Grey or the Gute from Gotland) which are "primitive" breeds which have been around for a long time and come in dark greyish shades too. I don't know how long these breeds have been around, though. I just know that these days, I can get pretty undyed yarn in dark greys, which is more flattering on me than brown 😅

[@karltriebel4262]

There are several native breeds to Western Europe which are black (or have black patches), although unsure how far the breeds date back.

[@darnokthemage170]

Black wool was a thing back then, and it was quite cheap "Monk black" as it was undyed dark gray/brown wool.

[@karowolkenschaufler7659]

how soft is the wool from those breeds? and where can I order some?

[@laulutar]

@@karowolkenschaufler7659 the Kainuu Grey can produce really soft wool, but it won't be quite as soft as something like a merino wool is likely to be.

[@karowolkenschaufler7659]

@@laulutar hm. I had suspected something like that.

[@counter10r]

We raised Cheviot sheep when I was young, and had a ram with some black genes, so always had one or two black lambs--which, as you say, were brown. Also loved the brief appearance of musical theater Jimmy with the Joseph quote!

[@Lunishta]

I work at a woollen mill and we do get jet black wool sometimes, the ends bleach red/brown in the sun, though most of our black is just Very Dark Grey. There isn't a lot of brown actually, at least not here in Canada.

[@Nessi-dances]

Lol, you had too much fun with this video! Thank you for the examples of dyeing! I know its hard to get fabric that is from dark sheep but you can definitely get yarn that is.

[@thecourtlyalchemist]

I just read a couple of article about myco-pigments. One mentioned a blue-green mushroom dye source native to and used traditionally in Norway. It also had photos of mushroom-dyed yarn including some that looked black or very close to it. Really hard to tell on a computer screen. Just offering it up as one more avenue to explore for anyone who is interested in natural sources of black.

[@teardrops2m]

I think for a closer to black dye they used a combination of black walnut dye (dark brown/black) and black ink dye in some cases. Iris root is also known to produce a black dye. I know these dyes were used during the medieval period just not how early. I suspect since these are natural dyes that they have been used for far longer than that.

[@rd6203]

That doesn't make sense for medieval period, as Juglans Nigra is a North American native species, and common walnuts dye more yellow than brown, to my understanding.

[@teardrops2m]

@@rd6203 there is a European walnut and brown/black uses old shells not new

[@elaynas4125]

I'm not sure if it would be available, but black walnut can get a very dark brown almost black dye, though it will fade like any other natural dye. Natural dye is definitely fun to experement with.

[@Alex-Sews]

And ruby and olive and violet and fawn... (I very much look forward to your future dyeing adventures!)

[@rachelboersma-plug9482]

Here's a video which gives an idea of the range of colours that could be achieved using woad, weld, madder, and various mordants: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4TWn4hjeqiMpNk

[@Alex-Sews]

@@rachelboersma-plug9482 Ooooh excellent! Thank you so much! My mom has done a lot of wool dyeing with early 19th century (American) methods but I'm not as familiar with the options available in medieval Europe.

[@YlvaTheRed]

Thank you! Myself and a fellow reenactor are doing some dye experiments with naturally dark wool, but not with oak galls yet. (We're testing some things for Irish Viking stuff, top secret 😉) This was a great demonstration of the dye, wonderful stuff! 💗

[@agypsycircle]

Oooh! I’ll be looking out for that video!!!

[@YlvaTheRed]

@@agypsycircle it might be a little while coming, we're already 6 months into this particular project and the end is not yet in sight 😅 But thank you for your enthusiasm! I'm keen to share it when it's ready

[@TheWelshViking]

Exciting stuff! This sounds so cool!

[@YlvaTheRed]

@@TheWelshViking I mean, I think it is, but I am also a textile nerd 😆 I'd definitely be interested to see if you manage to do these gall dyes on naturally dark wool, do you think you'll give it a try?

[@modernvintage3373]

As someone who loves learning and working with natural dyes, this was so fun and educational to watch! It's cool to learn beyond how to make a color from plants and to learn how people did it in history based on what was available to them in their region at their time!

[@madsrasmussen5536]

So glad i have found this channel! So interesting subjects!:D Greetings from Denmark:)

[@Eloraurora]

You sent me down a sheet rabbit hole. Not black, but there's a ginger! Look up Coburger fuchsschaf, there's a little cinnamon,-colored lamb!

[@Dissorganized_Craft]

Love metal head Jimmy! I've made it a point to go for colors when I do reenactment, even if my rock/metal heart would really rather have my black back place, and it is definitely something to get used to, I only have green currently, but I'm gonna make a orange apron dress for my friends wedding ^^ and at some point I'm gonna get yellow too, just all the non royal colors. Really weird to say but here we go. Another amazing video thank you

[@josie8581]

I started watching whilst getting around for the sleeps and I was not prepared for that 😂😂 On a less startling note, this is really neat to learn, I had no idea all of this science went into dyes. Thank you for sharing!

[@cheerful_something_something]

I am loving Dramatic Jimmy, Raaargh. But the dyeing is really cool and all the knowledge... om nom nom

[@TimothyCannock]

I have just purchased black leg-wraps (for Viking wear), so I am going to wash them a few times in the hope of fading towards grey or maybe tie-dye them!

[@knightsmarshall1]

Thank you! I wasn't aware of the requirement for the Benedictine robes using cheap (black) wool. I had hypothesised that they and the Hospitallers of the 12-13th Century wore black to show their status and wealth whilst also their humility due the lack of embellishments. I'm glad to be wrong in this!

[@deborahwilkins3786]

Just found your channel. Love your stuff. I'm a hand spinner and weaver. I mostly dye with modern dyes but have done some experimenting with natural dyes. You can get a reasonably black colour by dyeing your "black" wool with indigo, Or I guess if you are a medieval Englishwoman, with woad. And, as a spinner looking for natural black, I have hand picked the brown, sun-bleached tips off of a "black" fleece. The resulting yarn was the colour of unsweetened baking chocolate and, of course, completely light- and wash-fast. I wouldn't use too much iron sulphate because it is hard on wool. Oh, and since you need to scour the dirt and oil out of the wool, and some mordants and dyes help with cleaning or can be added to the rinse waters, why not dye. Especially since the plants are growing around you free, why not.

[@jacquelinepaddock7535]

I read in a book some time ago don't remember title, that elder was used as a dye sauce and that the back was used to moderate the brown in black sheep fleece. Never tried it. The black sheep fleece I spun in the grease to make a weather proof that for my dad.

[@forerealz]

oshima stumugi from japan is an all natural occuring dye that gets great deep dark blue-blacks, brown-blacks, and even blues and browns, its lightfast and done with mud that has iron content, it does not break down the natural protein fibers as badly as other iron based dyes does over time. i highly suggest looking into it. its something to do with the mud and mordant.

[@horseenthusiast9903]

Neat! I wish modern textiles took more advantage of brown/black wool and naturally coloured cottons and such. They're a really wonderful way to be able to naturally dye those interesting dark colours!

[@tctbiz]

I do not have a source, except personal experience. Vinegarroon. vinegar with iron dissolved in it. Turns anything with TANNINS in it blackish. Veg tanned leather will turn coal black with a few applications or the addition of tannin from oak leaves.

[@lenabreijer1311]

For the real poor peasants I am not sure brown cloth, the cheapest would be cheap enough. I suspect second hand or older would be it it which would mean faded fabric, pinks, salmons, baby blues, washed out yellows. Somehow a crowd or angry peasants in pink and baby blue would not strike the right note in a modern film. Dressing your marauding viking in lemon yellow pantloons with a deep rose tunics would probably not strike immediate fear into the hearts of movie goers.

[@angelique_cs]

I thought of you while watching a film the other day. It was set in 1209 Ireland and yet the main character was wearing impossible (and very black) boots that were not produced untill 1500 at the earliest. Honestly the film was fine, but as a reenactor I couldn't stop lampooning it. Side note Mr. Hyde Jimmy is quite intense!

[@lordvash9]

I have a pair of charcoal gray diamond weave trousers that I'm gonna have to rethink now, thanks for the information.

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

Oak gall-iron is hard on the fabrics, too.

[@junglejarnies1695]

Yes, the fabrics will deteriorate a lot faster.

[@anteyewa2635]

I tried beet root to dye some linen lace that I had crocheted. I only used salt and white vinegar as a mordant, so most of the color leached out when I rinsed it. I want to try again and use alum instead to see if it will hold the color better. I have also made black ink, alas it was made with vinegar and some iron nails I got from the hardware store. As you noted it was a bit brown rather than a dark black. It it did dry a bit darker but was still a bit in the brown side.

[@TheWelshViking]

You see so many manuscripts where the ink is brown, rather than really black, so take heart in knowing that medieval scribes had the same issue! Let us know how the alum works with the beetroot!

[@ravenfrogsuperk]

Have you tried dyeing with the leaves of the black walnut tree. It's not light fast, but the fallen leaves in autumn gets my patio pretty black after a few rains. By the end of summer it's normal colored cement.

[@TheWelshViking]

Wow! That’s impressive. Sadly not, they’re not native here, but I’ve seen their effect on cloth and it is profoundly black, at least initially.

[@ravenfrogsuperk]

@@TheWelshViking Regular walnut leaves might get close.

[@thekaxmax]

back in the day I found and authenticated mediaeval fluoro pink. :P

[@vhaelen326]

if the dye reacts with tannins you could just add ... more tannins. i know when ebonizing wood (which also works with tannins, not sure of its the exact same substance that causes to wood to turn black etc but it works with tannins) some woods have more tannins then others so some woods turn really JETBLACK while other just turn a dark gray, what you can do is make some nice black tea and gently apply it to the wood before ebonizing it, the added tannins in the tea cause a darker black, now im decently sure medieval people didnt have black tea but they might have had other substances with a high tannin content that you could use to sort of 'pre dye' anything you want to dye

[@angelaplatts]

Warrior Ninja's wearing black (according to QI) is historically inaccurate too. They were actually the equivalent of modern day theatrical stage crew who wore/wear black during stage performances to move scenery around on stage whilst remaining as unobtrusive as possible in the background.

[@danjudex2475]

I thought the ninja outfit was actually traditionally blue, as a natural night sky is dark blue and as such dark blue blends better.

[@marthahawkinson-michau9611]

My experience working with modern synthetic chemical dyes is that to get a truly black color it takes three separate dye baths to get the fabric to absorb enough of the dyes. Too be fair, these were packet dyes that were available in a hobby shop, so it’s not necessarily the same process as industrial dyes. But my first dye baths always came out out to the same shade of grey as what Jimmy got from his experiment. The second dye bath will give a good black that will fade out to off-black but very dark gray. The third dye bath gives a saturated true black color that doesn’t fade. I think it might have something to do with the saturation limit of the fibers. I was using modern synthetic dyestuffs that are intended for at home hobby use. Industrial dyestuffs might be stronger, but it’s also possible that a true black just needs multiple dye baths?

[@aninocentangel]

Acorns can make a very dark dye, and I believe that the Vikings did bring walnuts home with them. Walnuts make a dark dye that doesn’t require a mordant on protein fibers. Salt, vinegar, and ammonia are all helpful in the mordanting/dyeing process as well as iron, and were probably all available to the Vikings. I am far from an expert dyer but I have achieved very dark results on dark grey Shetland wool with walnut shells. I am a spinner though, and have seen several “brown” Icelandic and Shetland fleeces that simply needed the weathered tips and the occasional off colored strand removed to become black to the naked eye. Especially on lambs fleeces. So, I do think that they could have figured a way to make black fabric with wool, and it likely wouldn’t be too expensive to produce although it would require a lot more work in processing the wool.

[@davefinster8697]

somewhere I saw that walnut hulls would work for black (that's the thing that surrounds the whole walnut, shells and all). Can't get them in stores, have to find a walnut tree. Can't vouch for the accuracy, or even remember where I saw it.

[@FayeSterling]

Haha! I love painted Jimmy, I hope that becomes a gag!

[@sunnyjim6505]

Was just watching a tutorial on dying leather black with vinegaroon - iron mixed with vinegar, which would certainly have been available. Might that be a possibility for the shoes?

[@TheWelshViking]

It’s almost exactly what I used, but without the galls. It works, but alas there’s not evidence it was used in the Viking period. It would have been possible if you had access to enough iron and vinegar, though. If I find a reference to it I’ll post it up!

[@karengerber8390]

(#55!) Sunday, 17:48 4 October 2020 Thank you for this video! The dye results were particularly interesting. Well done, Huzzah!

[@WarDogMadness]

are you gonna do any lichen purple dye?

[@TheWelshViking]

Ohoho! Watch this space! It requires finding an ethical source for enough to use, but don’t change that dial ;)

[@JB-pd7jw]

Ecotex.nl (use google translate) has undyed white and brown local wool and veg dyed thinner wool yardage if you need some to experiment on. They do samples if you just need a small bit. And I think I still have a chunk of ferrosulfate gathering dust somewhere if you can use it.

[@historiansrevolt4333]

Interesting as always. Thanks!

[@johnweber80]

Actually ninjas normally wore dark blue; because it didn't clash as much in moonlight as black does.

[@cachinnatio]

It took me about half way through this video to synch with your humour, but once I got it I found this post of yours very funny & informative. My medieval get up is now obviously a million shades of artificial (courtly formal) medieval black.

[@Maellen]

I don't have the sources present, have to search a bit, but the greatest alum deposits in Europe (with easy access with medieval techniques and tools) are in Iberia, and one the best black dies was made from walnut boughs and folium (a blue pigment whose recipe was lost in time, but recovered recently). Thing is, It was not exported before late medieval times (Reconquest wars / no commerce between christian north and muslin Iberia).

[@Maellen]

www.fct.unl.pt/en/news/2020/04/nova-school-science-and-technology-researchers-help-unravel-mystery-medieval-blue-dye

[@tammievawter9477]

know you will never see this...I found some linen cloth on a sale rack and made a simple tunic and pants for my son for a period reenactment LARP type of event...it was a very pale turquoise...but I never swayed-used a brown dye over it and it became a very muted mid brown/tan color...perfect for the event/character. Loved the use of linen as it was a 'real' period fabric and by the time I was done with the dying and distressing, I was quite happy with the result...but thank you so much for the color discussion. it was so much fun for me as well.. just found you and a new sbuscriber.

[@TheWelshViking]

Nice find! I love it when you get a bargain fabric that just works perfectly for an event! 🤘

[@MickeyCuervo36]

Yeah, as I've started learning more, I've started putting aside all of my black leather belts, boots, pouches, etc in favor of nice rich browns, which honestly fade and wear in more pleasing ways than modern black, which look like they were spraypainted sometimes. Moving towards more silver (in color, since I'm poor lol) bling as well, since I hear that was more of a thing in that era than gold. Dunno why. Maybe it was just a fashion trend. Been trying to track down a cheap wool blanket that isn't already dyed a garish color, or worse, that military olive drab that's just immediately recognizable as such to cut apart and make a tunic out of. Finding them in white, or even beige, is just a nightmare... Y'know the color I'm fond of? That dryer lint color that might be grey, or blue, or brown, depending on the lighting. It's just cozy to me. Don't judge XD

[@patricksewtastic9938]

I always find information on fabrics and dye interesting. This was excellent information and fun. I always wondered if the colors in shows/movies(especially black) is accurate. The samples are excellent. Thank you. Now to skim through your other videos. Cheers

[@MarySanche]

My brain feels pleasantly full now (and glad to have more reasons to just keep buying gray fabric, my guiltiest pleasure)

[@binaryglitch64]

11:34 Yes my Liege, I tend to the crop as you speak.

[@rosemarielee7775]

Re leather. With wear and repeated oiling, even brown horse tack ends up almost black. Your grey/black leather would darken well.

[@AnnoyedKitten]

Awww! Me and my lovely cats thank you for those words. 💖😊

[@Devin_Stromgren]

I don't know if it goes that far back, but one way to get black vegi-tanned leather is vinegaroon. You just soak rusty iron in vinegar and paint the resulting fluid on the leather and it turns the tannins in the leather black. Make sure you rinse well afterwards to neutralize the acid.

[@Shade_Dragon]

lamp black was a very high end black dye which wouldve been available to wealthier people (like those with the disposable income to make tapestries of themselves). acorns can also be used to make a deep brown, some would even say black if its saturated enough, and also produces tannins. stuff tended to be left in dye baths for days and agitated to prevent streaking. to get more of a blue black color, i guess one could supplement a black dye recipe with dyers woad? urine was the traditional mordant for fabric. though its easily accessible, its not something i would really want to use in my clothes on purpose. also... i though vitriol was derived from copper? you also want to be careful using urine as a mordant, especially if youre dying fabric black... if youre using iron to dye a black color with urine and leave it sitting for long periods, as would generally be required... you might *accidentally* make your clothing a *little bitty bit* explosive... this is why silk luggage, especially black silk, kept catching fire in the victorian era.

[@yensid4294]

The history of pigments & their use/availability /access is actually pretty interesting. I learned about it via art history courses & also as part of my training as a fine artist since we were required to understand the chemical makeup of our materials. But yeah, certain colors just weren't commercially available until synthetic dyes & acrylic paints were invented. The organic compounds in many pigments were very toxic( lead, cadmium, etc) & very expensive so vegtable/plant based dyes were the most used for clothing for a very long time. Your videos are very enjoyable & informative, I'm glad I followed the YT rec 👍

[@koitsenka]

my grandmother always said that only the germans could do a lightfast black, but then she came out of the swiss amish community before ww1. my son has been planning to do some experimentation with iron gall ink. we'll see how that goes.