Did MSR Copy Soto? | MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe vs Soto Windmaster

What backpacking canister stove is the best backpacking stove? I'd argue in many ways that these two stoves are the front runners among a select few others like the Soto Amicus and BRS 2000 in the backpacking world.
The MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe is a brand new stove from MSR that is like the now adult and matured Pocket Rocket 2. When I first heard about this stove and it's features, I quickly compared it to the Soto Outdoors Windmaster. With a concave/cone shaped burner, a micro regulator valve and internal piezo igniter, these two stoves share a lot in common. Which is the better backpacking stove though?
- MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe from REI: bit.ly/2UG5qRT
- Soto Windmaster from Amazon: amzn.to/2Y642dE
Check out the comparison of these stoves from Spiguyver Backpacking: • MSR Pocket Rocket Delu...
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[@BackcountryExposure]

Which stove would you choose and why? The Soto Windmaster or the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe? Very similar stoves...

[@MrDanAng1]

I choose the Soto Windmaster for a few reasons: 1. It's the original, I usually don't like when a company steal an idea, regardless if it's patented or not. 2. It's half an ounce lighter, that's not much, but small weight savings accumulate to big weight savings if the lighter option is consistently choosen. 3. I think it perform better in wind, I usually try to shield it from the worst of winds, but I don't use a designated wind sheild when the stove is designed to work ok in high winds. 4. I already own one, so I dont have to buy a new stove. 5. It pack down a bit smaller with the removable pot stand. It's interesting they cook at the same speed, the one second difference is certainly within the margin of error. However, I think it's more interesting to see the fuel economy, how much gas is used. I often use a home made alcohol stove, I have one that usually cook 2 cups of water in just under 8 minutes, I also have one with a few more burn holes that cook the same amount of water under the same conditions in just over 5 minutes. The difference is that the slower one uses half an ounce of fuel while the faster one uses a full ounce of fuel to reach a boil. For a longer hike, a week or two, that add up to some ounces of both weight and volume in the backpack. It would be interesting to see how many grams of gas each use to reach the point of boiling in the 2.5ish minutes it took them both.

[@amitls]

Does the 4 flex of the soto fit the PR Deluxe? Thanks

[@sharkusZ]

Soto for sure. Not only is the MSR clearly a copy, it's heavier, slower, noisier and uses more fuel than the Soto (and tried to come to pieces during your test!). My personal favourite is the Soto Amicus, as I mostly use smaller pots and the pot stand is able to support everything down to a 300ml cup really securely. The Amicus has almost identical performance to the Windmaster in terms of speed, fuel usage and wind resistance, and it's a little smaller, lighter and cheaper. What's not to like? Thanks for a great vid.

[@bruin4937]

I'd go with Soto. Why? See Daniel H's post. :-)

[@BOOSTEDLASER]

Any update?

[@azclaimjumper]

When I visited REI's website & looked at the comparative EFFICIENCY specs that is what helped me decide. The Soto takes 90 MINUTES to completely use up an 8 oz canister of fuel when the fuel flow valve is wide open The MSR takes only 60 MINUTES to completely use up an 8 oz canister of fuel when the fuel flow valve is wide open. As I said, these comparative times are taken from REI's website. I'll be buying the Soto from REI in late May during their Anniversary Sale when I can buy it at a 30% discounted price. I've vacillated between Soto & MSR. I like the packability of the MSR. However, I much prefer the EFFICIENCY of the Soto.

[@flashmanv3260]

Great review, a lot of people have been waiting to see them both next to each other running head to head. Thanks!

[@BackcountryExposure]

flashman V glad it could be of help!

[@TheWasatchGearReview]

I'm going to be picking up the Soto just to have in the arsenal! Thanks Dev, great info.

[@BackcountryExposure]

The Wasatch Gear Review do it! You’d love it!

[@SpiguyverBackpacking1]

I think our videos compliment one another very well! Great video! Thanks for the idea to do this!

[@BackcountryExposure]

Thanks Mark, I totally agree. You've got the boil testing down to a science.

[@normarinker3245]

Thanks! I've been looking at the Soto. Great video!!

[@ChrisOUTEC]

Glad to be a fellow Soto Windmaster owner! Thank you

[@specialhorse8062]

I have Soto Windmaster 4 flex. The 4 flex being loose is a concern. The stove is also taller than most. Something you missed in the review is how the 4 flex (and 3 flex) hugs the burner and extends above it. This acts as a wind break (4 being better than 3 (have both)) The 4 flex is superior to 3 when using wide pots and frying pan. The MSR igniter has another moving part to fail. I no longer carry a wind screen and suspect MSR version would enable same. The Soto is quiet. The regulator valves have a different feel than needle valves. Suggest you delve further into why's of regulator valves. Maybe talk about how heat transfer to canister effects stove height. I think the Soto is better and will continue to use it.

[@chrisladouceur4093]

I’ve got the deluxe and only taken it on 1 trip so far but it performed great. Super fast boil times, sturdy, good control, easy to pack. I only had light winds so can’t talk about wind resistance but seems like it would be solid

[@mhammann57]

Does the ignition wire disconnect by design when unscrewing the burner head? It still worked but I wonder if that might be a problem down the road.

[@flyingtigers5954]

i chose the soto windmaster bc is just a work of art.

[@jantomaszrogala4230]

thank you, good review! Can I boil on the MSR 2l of water(all together with a pot 2.2kg) will it be sturdy enough and stable enough?

[@BentbrooksRambles]

I’ve been waiting for someone to make this comparison! Thank you! Can’t wait to hear your thoughts about the PRD after field use.

[@BackcountryExposure]

Bentbrook's Rambles it’s headed out this week for a few nights in the PNW! Looking forward to long term use and sharing with everyone.

[@JoshHerodOutdoorAdventures]

Both nice stoves. Before I went to no cook I used the MSR pocket rocket for quite a while

[@BackcountryExposure]

Josh Herod Outdoor Adventures that Pocket Rocket is a killer reliable stove.

[@zhaoyunzulong]

Thank you for helping me to choose MSR stove.

[@0verfiend]

hahahahahaaaaaaa too funny.

[@veteran_iraq796]

Great video and great comparison. There's no doubt that MSR is a highly regarded company that makes some really great products. But IMHO, the Soto Windmaster was the first (and still the best) stove like this. So MSR gave themselves a "black eye" by simply copying the Soto Windmaster like they did. That's the kind of behavior that you would expect from China....not a reputable company like MSR.

[@BackcountryExposure]

Veteran_Iraq hence the reason for me being so specific in measurements between the two. It’s boggling how similar the specs are.

[@veteran_iraq796]

@@BackcountryExposure - Most folks call it 'copy'. LOL. Great video!!

[@oldunion]

Theres a good chance they both use an OEM from Korea called Kovea, many of MSR's stoves have come from Kovea. But Soto is a consumer brand branch of a Japanese industrial brand called Shinfuji Burner so could just be MSR used Shinfuji rather than Kovea for this stove. We could order a few thousand from either factory, make a few changes and call it the BCE Prime Stove if you want.

[@christophmichel3380]

@@oldunion Soto manufacture in there own factory in Japan

[@michaelbrohl1625]

I don't understand why people get bent out of shape over copying a design that works. When you get in your car every day do you think to yourself "This is just a copy of the original internal combustion engine ". Almost everything you use in your daily life is a copy of somebody else's original idea.

[@LegionTacticoolCutlery]

I like the stove that works.... so either one will do fine with the tests you conducted... i like the way the MSR breaks down rather then the Soto and the two pot holders it comes with.

[@live4wild968]

Great review , Thanks Devin

[@BackcountryExposure]

Thanks John! Hope you're doing well!

[@JonathanRobsonPhoto]

Do they come with any kind of case similar to the older pocket rocket?

[@fotosoldier]

Which has better control with simmer control for cooking regular food?

[@JRoss707]

I assume that the Soto window master is a different model than the regular Soto on the market?

[@johnrunyan5634]

Really enjoy your vids you do a great job. My question with the Soto Winemaster what are you using with it as your cook system and packability of it. It has great reviews but seems a challenge to pack. Are you packing it separately or in a pot and if so which pot, Toakes 750mm or other. Thank you look forward to your feedback.

[@johnnyappleseed6960]

Both stoves fit well into the Toaks 750ml pot with a 110 gram canister and mini bic lighter...(small sponge & small handkerchief also)

[@TheEffortlessMan]

@@johnnyappleseed6960 That's great to know. Thank you!

[@alanwilliams5836]

I saw my subscription inbox had two videos on these.. yours and Spiguyver's... did you guys plan this? Wow!!!

[@BackcountryExposure]

BIG AL MI we sure did! We wanted to provide two different perspectives right up front at the same time.

[@aaronforeman1696]

I have both the Soto Windmaster and MSR Pocket Rocket 2 (not the deluxe). I found the Pocket Rocket to be noticeably noisier than the Soto. I would be interested to know if MSR's Pocket Rocket Deluxe version has been engineered to be quieter than the Pocket Rocket 2?

[@azclaimjumper]

In my mind, the amount of noise a stove makes is infinitesimally. inconsequential

[@scottshellenberger4721]

What cook pot were you using in the boiling video?

[@thenaturemanadventures]

Looks like it comes down to brand choice. They both perform well under the conditions you tested them and price point is the same. Curious how the MSR performs in the back country for you. 😃🍅

[@0verfiend]

no. it’s not brand choice you numskull. who the fuck gets inferior products just for a name? jesus christ...

[@LGSkywalker82]

Lol you and Spygiver submitted the same video at the same time. Awesome lol

[@BackcountryExposure]

Was planned that way! ha ha. Thanks for watching!

[@tomhickman1006]

Have you ever used the original GAZ butane stoves.?

[@trakyboy5128]

Hey amigo,!! I carry the Soto. I also carry their Thermostack combo and helix coil coffee maker. But here's the kicker.....I also carry a Optimus " Crux Lite " stove. Y u r probably asking. Becuz, I carry a small 8" alum fry pan that is right off the store shelf. I cut the handle off and ground smooth the point of attachment. It weighs 8.3 oz. This is only a few oz more than the most ceramic pan w/ talon removable handle BUT the MUCH thicker ' store ' panworks WAY, WAY better. But hi power stove's like windmaster & Pocket deluxe r not great for fry pan use. Thats where the Crux light comes into play. It's super light. Has a wider burn pattern. And lower BTUs. Much more controllable and suited for frying pan use. It comes in at 2.7 Oz w/o sack. No I don't carry these all the time. Unless my menu consists of things that require frying. Or like I have fun going backpacking and plan to do some fishing or whatever. Maybe I'll do a stir Fry and do fajitas. But u get the idea . the main point I'm making is that having the hottest, fastest stove may not always be the best thing for you. Just a little friendly FYI for you to consider. 🤔🤗😃

[@trakyboy5128]

Sorry guys ! I didn't catch the type-o It's supposed to be " MSR " ceramic pan !!!

[@jeffhallman676]

So the Soto “arms” don’t break down like the Pocket Rocket? That seems like a nice feature for packing it up.

[@mattschirle]

The Windmaster's pot support is removable and folds up flat. You can also get a wider 4 arm pot support for the Soto with a slight weight penalty.

[@Doofyy11]

I don’t know which on to choose from??? Help?

[@jinsjewelry]

I have MSR but Soto looks great! Did u know that Diaso round cookie cutter makes perfect wind blocker for Soto? :)

[@BackcountryExposure]

Hike with Jina ha! Right on!

[@Cs-vo2vk]

What's his lame response Nerd

[@bigheadmarkie]

Which pot were you using in this video?

[@GordLamb]

I've had the Soto Microregulator for the past 10 years and absolutely love it. I was looking at the Windmaster because my Primus Eta 1.0L pot's flux ring is just a little too far out, and it only balances on ~3mm of pot stand. The tri-flex might fit inside the ring, and the 4-flex would cover the whole ring. Now I'm curious about the MSR, though. Would you be able to measure the diameter of the pot stand? I can't seem to find it anywhere!

[@backcountryadventure9628]

I think at this point I would go with the Soto wind master, primarily because it is just a few grams lighter. But I would use either one!

[@BackcountryExposure]

Montana Backcountry Adventure *Backcountryschlott* that’s where I am at too. But wanna really put the MSR to the test.

[@backcountryadventure9628]

@@BackcountryExposure do you have the XTS Pot with a heat exchanger, or any Pot with a heat exchanger?. I'm curious how much of difference it would make on those two stoves. Great job on the video, I was eager to watch this one.

[@benwilkinson45]

I have both stoves and when used/tested with the Optimus heat exchanger pot there was no difference. Both stoves boiled 2 cups of water insanely fast (indoors).

[@onetimeoutdoorsdj1394]

Thank you for the great video and information God bless you and your family my friend

[@BackcountryExposure]

ONETIME OUTDOORS Dj 👊🏻

[@0verfiend]

which god?

[@MrBluoct]

Yes it is a copy 👎 My wind master has the four pot support option with all four supports having a collapsible section Fantastic stove Super quiet Fast boils How about decibels assigned while at full burn for each W M is fairly quiet And the pot supports really grip bottom of a pot Wind master for the win🤙

[@BackcountryExposure]

I've also got the 4 Flex option, just didn't show it here. I've been impressed with the Windmaster every time I've taken it out. Thanks for the comment!

[@LT4me]

I like MSR for the Non-removable pot stands. Less to lose. MSR has great support how does SOTO support this product?

[@BackcountryExposure]

Long Tran Soto definitely stands behind their product. Having the pot stand attached is nice, but I also like being able to switch between the tri flex and the 4 flex pot stands on the Soto.

[@bertman4]

Go with the Soto Amicus!

[@flashmanv3260]

What did you find as far as the noise difference between the two stoves?

[@BackcountryExposure]

flashman V the deluxe does seem to be a little louder.

[@carlosedwardos]

ummm, you were going to get back with us on whether the MSR pocket rocket deluxe ended up being as much of a favorite of yours as the Soto windmaster

[@80-80.]

Does the TriFlex pot support fit on the MSR burner head?

[@1Splat]

Yes, it does.

[@Rickstar270]

One thing from observation it looks like the MSR stove has a lot wider pot stand which may be useful for pots with a wider base. Is the pot stand much wider?

[@BackcountryExposure]

Rick Endres yes it is wider. It’s better for wider pots, but less stable for smaller cups like a 550ml toaks.

[@jonny9884]

Yes, I was thinking of getting the PRD for bigger pots, and/or fry pan. I only recently got into stoves for hiking and camping and at the moment have the Pocket Rocket 2 and MSR SuperFly; both at great prices. I've only learned about the Soto Windmaster today. They don't sell them in Helsinki, Finland where I live.

[@fischerkingston3967]

Someone else did a boil test, the soto is 4grams less fuel and 20 seconds shorter to boil.

[@jonny9884]

Does the Soto Windmaster also have a removable brass threaded insert piece used for attaching the stove to a fuel canister ? Hope that made sense.

[@MySwatchOrama]

Do you have an update on which on you would choose?

[@BackcountryExposure]

My SwatchOrama Soto Windmaster!

[@zeanmore]

i have both this two stoves i prefer the soto one because the 4 flex is more stable and the windproof the soto one is better. and also soto stove more meticulous.

[@jafo2502]

Did your PRD have the same squeal as Spiguyver's?

[@BackcountryExposure]

kmnidk mine hasn’t been doing that.

[@elderhiker7787]

Cost comparison?

[@MrYoliss]

Awesome video

[@earlelzy7243]

What about cost?

[@attempt3480]

Agreed both are great stove

[@jasongarcia7544]

Soto, double sealed to the canister saves gas ( and safety) if the inner seal ever fails.

[@markwillett6527]

I have both. I don't notice much of a difference in actual use. If I had to pick one, I would pick the MSR. The main reason for picking the MSR is because I occasionally do winter backpacking. Most quality canisters have a mixture of Isobutane and propane, but mostly Iso-butane. Iso-butane boils at about 10°F. Even at temperatures around 20-30°F the heat of vaporization can drop the internal temperature of the canister much lower than ambient, so even thought the ambient might be 20°F, the internal temperature can drop below the boiling point of the fuel. You can shake it and feel it's not empty, yet the liquid doesn't boil and the fuel is stuck in the can. Yes you sleep with the canister and try other methods, but I like the safety of bringing a cheap propane cylinder and using a propane adapter. Here lies the issue. My Soto would not fit on the propane adapter because of the secondary seal. The female threads on the soto has a seal as all iso-butane connections do, but soto put on a secondary seal that seems to fit into a isobutane cylinder, but not my propane adapter. Therefore, I picked up the pocket rocket deluxe specifically for this reason while still having the igniter, the windscreen, and the regulator, and now my MSR fits my propane adapter.

[@bybrent8034]

What I'd really like to see is a comparison with the 12. 99 clone on Amazon. But great job here.

[@BackcountryExposure]

What stove would that be? Send me the info and I'll take a look.

[@bybrent8034]

@@BackcountryExposure www.amazon.com/dp/B07BF7KZ95/?coliid=I1C9AH1R5I0MVN&colid=LUH4Q1WEUQKS&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it It's probably closer to the Amicus but I wouldn't mind seeing that one compared also

[@bybrent8034]

@@johnvidal70 thanks good to know. Does it have the micro regulator as well? I have also been looking at the Amicus but I was worried that it might not have the micro regulator. When I asked Soto about it this is what they told me: "Yes, the Amicus with igniter, OD-1NVE, comes with the Micro Regulator. The OD-1NV is the Amicus stove without the Micro Regulator. Warmly, Cindy Sekiguchi SOTO USA Shipping Department Lebanon, Oregon 503-314-5119 Japanese inspired"

[@Belbury101]

I have the Clone ( by APG) and the Soto. The clone is as fast to boil, and simmers. I bought it for a small mocha coffee pot at home. After a few months use of maybe 4 times a week, the head is very wobbly and unstable due to the way it is constructed (where screw is halfway up it has loosened ). I wouldn't take it on a long hike. Though I normally wouldn't take the soto either, as I primarily use an alcohol stove.

[@amitls]

Does the 4flex fit the msr delux, I had to go with the msr as it fits with the 1lb propane vs windmaster, i'm thinking of buying 4flex if it fits the msr delux. Thank you

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

None of the advertised stoves have the triflex stand

[@BackcountryExposure]

?? What do you mean?

[@SimoWill75]

Yes, Soto started shipping these with the 4flex only, the triflex is now an option, so extra $$. I got lucky with one of the last that came with both.

[@MidlifeCrisisTactical]

SOTO warranty: 90 days. Pocket Rocket warranty: 5 years

[@0verfiend]

i’ve have soto stove branded as a brunton raptor. for years. it’s never quit or let me down. my sea to summit mat was 160 dollars and has a lifetime warranty but they wouldn’t replace it because i can’t find my receipt even though i have proof of the charges. i also have msr elixir 3 that never let me down....but since they’ve jerked me around on the mat, i’m buying naturehike tents and hikenture mats. funk them. i gave them a chance. many actually. sometimes you win( elixir) sometimes you don’t ( air mattress). but for the amount of m9ney paid, 5hey should have made me happy. adios msr.

[@marloweheredy7945]

Wow. For how close to the same they are; least expensive wins for me. Thanks

[@BackcountryExposure]

Marlowe Heredy Soto for the win then! Thanks for watching and commenting as always!

[@trakyboy5128]

Fam right they did

[@159355478]

Fancee feast for boiling water...30 yr old svea for controlled cooking. Bam

[@tiberiu_nicolae]

The simplicity and reliability of an alcohol stove is pretty cool but these stoves are like a Hayabusa compared to a donkey. They will both get you there but one is quicker and louder ;)

[@TimWatsonOutdoors]

I like the look of both? 🤣 they look the same.

[@BackcountryExposure]

I am biased to the Soto right now, but maybe my mind will change after some proper field use with the Deluxe. :)

[@DanBecker]

I’m sticking with my Soto!

[@BackcountryExposure]

Dan Becker wooooo!

[@Susanne2000]

🙂👍

[@coldbore1444]

Soto for the win it's the original, lighter, better pot stand, cheaper, more efficient, quieter.

[@BackcountryExposure]

Cold Bore I’m excited to long term test the Deluxe though. But I am still favoring the Soto.

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

I have been a MSR stove, going back to the 80s. But I am not a fan of the PR pot supports. No hard value just such a mi ima amount of the stand touching the pot. If the Soto is better I wind it may be in part to the fact that the stand legs also act as a wind break. But tomorrow you are really going to have to do a boil test again and weight the canisters. The other important test is wut a canister that is almost empty and or cold to see how good the regulator works. Thank I have a couple of near empty canisters, lol.

[@BackcountryExposure]

Adventures with Frodo meh Ill pass on the boil testing. But I’d agree about the pot stands.

[@domc2909]

Soto is nearly half the price. Quite an important difference!

[@user-m11r49xy]

很神奇，中国的二合一产品2月上市。

[@oldunion]

Probably Kovea who makes a few of MSRs stoves. They might make SOTOs also.

[@Dambister]

MSR это корейская Kovea, а Soto это оригинальный продукт !)