Did Oda Nobunaga Really Influence Samurai Warfare at Nagashino? - A Discussion

[@Shin_Lona]

Well stated argument, and I would definitely agree. The only thing I can really add is to stress the reputation of the Takeda cavalry prior to Nagashino. Until Nobubaga effectively countered their charge, they were widely considered to be more or less unstoppable. To shut down such a formidable force was truly a remarkable feat.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

Well tbf Uesugi Kenshin had devised tactics to counter Takeda's cavalry, rotating his spearmen to match Takeda's Furinkazan wave attacks. But yes it's the manner in which Nobunaga countered the Takeda strategy which is so impressive. Not just weathering the storm of assaults but neutralizing its effectiveness altogether.

[@jeffreygao3956]

Couldn't people just use pike hedges to stop the cavalry charges?

[@FinnishDragon]

The monks were important pioneers using matchlock muskets in siege warfare but Nobunaga did learn from them and developed the concept of using matchlock muskets further implementing them on the battlefield. I also agree that Hideyoshi and Ieyasu and many other samurai commanders learned that skill from Nobunaga either witnessing the effectiviness of that skill on the battlefield or studying the battle of Nagashino.

[@OneWingedAngelsBand]

Here's another analogy for The Shogunate. It's like the Triangle Offense in basketball. The Bulls of the 90s and the Lakers of the 2000s didn't invent the tactic, but they perfected them. The same can be said of Nobunaga and the use of matchlock firearms.

[@SrChr778]

No matter how you look at it, Nobunaga's three-volley tactic was genius at the time. It revolutionized the modern warfare as we know it now.

[@Knoloaify]

The claim that the siege of Ishiyama Honganji is what changed the use of firearms in Japan is as silly as claiming that the siege of Sainte-Suzanne in 1085 is what inspired the Welsh to combine fortifications with the use of longbows, because the French used bows from behind fortifications. Everyone used ranged weapons from behind fortifications during sieges since the dawn of time. The innovation was using fortifications designed to maximize the potential of matchlocks during a field battle, and that was all Nobunaga.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

Agreed, but it's also the way he divided up his troops to get the maximum use out of his ranks. The best shooters are on the front firing while those behind can focus on reloading as quickly as possible. That's something that Western strategists didn't come up with for quite some time later.

[@simaoantunes3000]

@@Naraku-no-Hana-WE Did nobunaga keep the best shooters infront?

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

@@simaoantunes3000 yeah it wasn't a revolving formation, the shooters stayed in front and the men behind them handed them loaded guns, reloaded spent ones, and stepped forward to replace them when they fell. Technically it's superior way to handle it as it keeps the shooters honed in on their targets and let's each man focus on what they're best at, though it also means the front rank are getting the worst effects of the noise and other unpleasant effects. Either way it was very effective.

[@james-97209]

Yeah everyone was using artillery but it was Napoleon who perfected its use

[@rnp497]

I would say you have nailed it. the monks displayed just how to use firearms. He then realised that it is was possible to re-create those circumstances and use the tactics offensively. Thus the leaders and armies got to witness how powerful the firearm was when used correctly

[@GaijinGoombah]

I thought this would be coming.

[@TheShogunate]

Definitely a hot topic

[@Eduardo_Ventura]

I think the answer is quite clear. This is a weapon with clear use on a fortress defense. As any other projectiles. But to use on a field battle as it was used on Nagashino, that was very innovative. It was a bold strategy which required someone who thinks ahead. Few can boost that halted the Takeda war machine, even without Shingen, the top generals were there, the demon horseman were there on open field. It's very different the obvious use on fortress defense to a field battle against a famous cavalry unit. Nick, don't let us without the sengoku jidai series. Many of my friends are getting restless as am I. We love it.

[@raijinryu47]

Earlier clans specially the western Japan have early access to muskets, but it was Nobunaga who created the strategy on how to properly used it. Most clans were able to used muskets but was not able to come up with a battle formation that is solely focus on muskets.

[@npbarnhill]

It's one thing to come up with an idea. But to effectively implement it under the fog of war, when success is never a given, is quite an impressive feat. I think we should give due credit to Nobunaga. In the same way Phillip of Macedon didn't invent the pike phalanx or the sarrisa: he implemented their use in an offensive infantry formation, which revolutionized warfare for centuries.

[@hanchiman]

His daring and ballsy attack in Okehazama basically made him daring but on the same time a bit reckless, dunno if he was just plain lucky that he managed to get info where Yoshimoto was camping not to mention it was raining heavy to cover Nobunaga movement and making the guns slightly useless. I think his three volley tactic was used during the Imjin war against Goryo and Ming as the Samurai didn't have heavy cannons like the Chinese had.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

At Okehazama Yoshimoto didn't do anything particular to disguise his movements, it would be fairly easy to guess where he was camping. Nobunaga was however lucky with how the Imagawa deployed their forces, he couldn't have known they would leave such a significant gap at their vanguard and could only guess at the lax patrols around the camp. There was also some impact by weather, though it's worth noting that Nobunaga did have contacts who were likely skilled at predicting weather patterns, it's possible he received better weather forecasts than his rivals (this applies to some of his later battles as well).

[@hanchiman]

@@Naraku-no-Hana-WE I guess Yoshimoto was a bit arrogant that he thought his 30000 army would easily crush Nobunaga (which technically he could), I am rather impressed Nobunaga at the meeting with his officer where he basically called those who want to surrender as "Pussies". Although it might been fabricated later after his lucky victory though. I always thought he was lucky with the weather, didn't know he had weather predictioner to guess the weather. Still he was kinda lucky that Okehazama raid just happened during a heavy rain

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

@@hanchiman well keep in mind Nobunaga was very unlikely to be spared by the Imagawa whereas many of his officers had previously defected other clans to serve the Oda, were former peasants raised up to officers or were known opportunists. So yeah Nobunaga had all the motivation in the world to ride out while many of his officers did not. He still had to make the call to March and convince them to follow him so still impressive in its own right. As for the weather, we have no way of knowing but we know he consulted with unnamed individuals that fit the description of ninja. And one of Ninjutsu's disciplines is meteorology and predicting celestial phenomenon. Its just my guess that this played a role in several key campaigns for Oda.

[@hanchiman]

@@Naraku-no-Hana-WE so basically Nobunaga originally planned to "Go gunsblazing before going down"? Oh yeah, he did use alot of Ninjas maybe this is why he later on feared other Ninja clans due to their ability to change the battlefield so he tried to kill the Iga ninjas.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

@@hanchiman oh Iga was more of an accident than anything. Nobunaga's heir wanted to impress his father (under the advice of Takigawa Kazumasa) and thought lowly Iga province an easy target. It was not, Nobunaga was furious and almost ordered Takigawa's execution. But in the end he accepted what was done was done, that there was no chance to repair the relation with Iga and he had to finish what his son started. Nobunaga rightfully feared Iga and so he did not hold back. This may have drove the survivors into Nobunaga's rivals camps (including Tokugawa).

[@SeanHiruki]

Perfect timing I was about to play the Nagashino battle in Samurai Warriors 5

[@TheShogunate]

Just about there myself!

[@masterofmagic99]

Is it worth picking up? I backed off warriors games for awhile

[@tntaclegrape]

Samurai Warriors 5 is out already?!?

[@masterofmagic99]

@@tntaclegrape it is

[@SeanHiruki]

@@masterofmagic99 it’s great

[@stevendefender4904]

It should also be noted that historians still debate to what extent firearms actually played a significant role in the battle of Nagashino. Some historians argue that the impact of matchlock at the battle is greatly over-exaggerated-which is supported by some sources. The Historian's Craft has a really great video going over some of the primary and secondary sources on the battle and, through doing so, attempts to draw a conclusion regarding their impact at the battle and establish a consensus regarding the usage of matchlocks during the period as a whole. The video is titled "Nagashino and the Tēppo: Myths and Realities".

[@mitch7235]

It’s good to see someone mention his channel😁.

[@jasontakahashi6374]

Thank you for an interesting video! Can't wait for your review of samurai warriors 5!

[@aidanfitzgerald4372]

I get so excited when I see your post notifications!!

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

To stay with music examples: Wagner was not the first to use what we call leitmotif, but he developed it into something incredibly complex that influences music - even film music - to this day.

[@OneWingedAngelsBand]

This is one of the many reasons why Nobunaga is no doubt my favorite character in the Sengoku Jidai. I love it when military strategists learn from their own failures and utilizes their enemies' tactics against them.

[@andrewfirestone8049]

What's always crazy to me is that even after the introduction of firearms, you still had guys running around the battlefield with spears, swords and axes acting like the old-style warriors. Absolutely wild times, obviously.

[@Za_Lup]

I'm a simple man, I see Nobunaga, I click

[@rodneylove8027]

I agree that it was Nobunaga who truly brought modern firearm employment to samurai warfare. Had another Daimyo battled the Ikko Ikki he may not have seen their tactics in the same way considering them to be beneath the Samurai. Oda saw the effectiveness of the monk’s tactic and used it. The Daimyo who saw Oda use it such great effect in turn used it. They saw how the Takeda dismissed the massed gunners and charged to their own annihilation. They saw the future of combat that Oda Nobunaga displayed to devastating effect.

[@manjitahzan9577]

100% agree with you. Nobunaga did influenced by the monk of Ishiyama Honganji to invent his famous Triple Formation for his musket troops. Ikko-ikki leader, Kennyo Honganji encouraging his troops to muster the use of musket due to lack of professional warrior i.e Samurai in his army. Most of his troops only consist of peasant footsoldier that's not have regorous training as the samurai. We can easily see why he prefers musket than any other weaponry. It's also interesting to note that Saika Ikki of Kii province were the professional mercenary that wield musket with great potent. Nobunaga saw through Ikko-ikki what musket can do even you only have inferior warrior with battle field skills.

[@Perceval777]

I've heard another debate regarding Nagashino - whether Nobunaga actually had three thousand matchlock gunners. Some argue that he deployed only a thousand ashigaru with matchlocks, so his spearmen actually did most of the fighting against the Takeda cavalry.

[@RobTheAnimeGuy]

From a tactical perspective they both absolutely deserve credit! The monks showed how brutally effective the tactic could be used to defend a castle. Nobunaga took that knowledge and showed everyone how it could also be applied to battles in the field. If its one or the other, then i'd say Nobunaga. The ikko Ikki did it first, but their actions really only effected the Oda. Nobunaga and eventually Hideyoshi after Nobunaga's death, either fought alongside or against EVERYONE! Like...EVERY SAMURAI IN JAPAN EVERYONE! I think the reason most people always talk about Nagashino instead of the seige of Ishiyama-Honganji, is time. Nobunaga needing roughly a decade to beat the Ikko-Ikki can be attributed to many things. The daimyo of the time would likely have probably assumed either that Ishiyama-Honganji was truly an impregnable fortress or that maybe Nobunaga and the Oda weren't was impressive as they've been told. Yes the Ikko-Ikki evetually lost, but it took a decade to do it. On the flip side we have the Takeda, a clan that for the past quarter of a century had been kicking ass under the leader ship of 'The Tiger of Kai' Takeda Shingen. Someone so good at his job that the words "Takeda cavalry" would have people quaking in they're boots! The only reason he didn't conquer more of Japan is because he was next door to two of the baddest daimyo on the block, 'The Lion of Sagami' Hojo Ujiyasu and 'The Dragon of Echigo' Uesugi Kenshin, who just also happened to be known as THE GOD OF WAR. Shingen and his clan were known by every daimyo in the country as someone you DO NOT want to mess with. Nobunaga and Ieyasu found that out the hard way just two years earlier at the battle of Mikatagahara. Yes, Shingen was dead by the time of Nagashino, but his clan was not! The Takeda were still had a mighty army with exceptional commander like Yamagata, Baba, Naito, and many others. In hindsight, yes we all know there were many reasons why Nobunaga won, but we have to put ourselves back in 1575 before the battle. Ask yourself, how many daimyo, who don't have hindsight like us, do think would have expected the Takeda to have almost the entirety of their military might get DESTROYED in ONE DAY by someone who they had soundly defeated just two years ago in the open field!? No one. In my mind that is why the battle of Nagashino had the impact it did. Tl;DR - Nobunaga utterly destroying the infamous Takeda Cavalry in a single battle was much more impressive than the Ikko-Ikki holding a mighty castle with lots of help for ten years.

[@emperorjoker9240]

Also I can’t remember which Samurai Warriors game it was but, Toshiie remarked on the dangers of guns. He said that they pretty much made warriors obsolete and that you could put one in the hands of a child and they could become the most dangerous person on a battlefield. No real reason I added this I just thought it was something interesting that the developers put in as a commentary on guns.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

Well this was definitely the commentary of the time. There were prominent examples of samurai engaging in duels and the winner being gunned down by the loser's men. Iirc Mori Yoshinari (a Saito/Oda officer, not related to the Mori of Aki province) suffered this fate in a battle that Maeda Toshiie was present at.

[@jaojmnhzhzm]

Nobunaga was something of an anomaly. Let's not forget his early adoption of European culture along with Christianity. Had he survived, I think he would have unified the country and set it on a course very different from that of the Tokugawa - a more open outlook on the world, rather than a closed off one. That said, the hard lessons he learned exterminating the Ikko-Ikki would influence samurai warfare because of his cult of personality. He was a legend in some circles and an infamous tyrant in others but he commanded respect regardless of one's opinion of his character as a man and, whether you wanted to join him or defeat him, one had to take his tactics seriously.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

Yeah it's a good point, but just to be clear it's Toyotomi that set the country on the path to closed door policy. Toyotomi became deeply fearful of the influence of Jesuits upon Western Daimyo. Tokugawa just embraced a number of Toyotomi's domestic policies towards maintaining control over the daimyo. While Oda Nobunaga did embrace alot of Western ideology it is also apparent he was using them to further his goals. Whether he would have remained open to them at the end of the era is hard to predict, ambitious and powerful figures like Kuroda Kanbei and Otomo Sorin may have convinced Oda to close the door as well. But it is certainly worth exploring the idea of an open Japan under Oda Shogunate (or Oda proxy rule), and how different Japan may have emerged into the industrial era.

[@jaojmnhzhzm]

@@Naraku-no-Hana-WE Yes. I think Hideyoshi was heavily influenced by his lord's struggles and the horrible lengths he had to go to deal with the Ikko-Ikki, ultimately. Hence the requirement of all Christian daimyo to re-establish their loyalty every year by spitting or stepping on an image of the Madonna and his crucifixion of the missionaries. The point I wanted to make was that, ultimately, Ieyasu's ill-advised closing off of the country due to religious and cultural contamination fears led to a centuries-long decline of Japanese innovation and the downfall of the bakufu.

[@promnightdumpsterbaby9553]

Guy was a legend. Did some fucked up shit,but still a legend.

[@andrewbatist6355]

8:00 this head adress the character is wearing at the bottom. masatsuma yanada...6:51 this ienari ishikawa also. i only saw this in okinawan ryukyu kingdom warriors. i didnt know the japanese have this. how can i find images, paitings of this ?

[@emperorjoker9240]

If what I have seen in the media is to be believed the answer is undoubtedly yes. Not only did he manage to shut down an unstoppable calvary but, he claimed a lot of generals in the process. I don’t think anybody else Sengoku era pulled off anything that great even after he died.

[@marioof_the_meadow7269]

I didn't think that song could get better but after watching this it just did.

[@joshuajwars4271]

You're correct nevertheless.

[@sengokusanada2690]

Awesome Video! I was wondering if you will make a video about samurai battleships someday?

[@tanusreebhattacharjee9757]

Your videos are wonderful , keep making these videos , Btw I have a question that why no samurai Warlords didn't conquer the hokido region?

[@TheShogunate]

Thank you!

[@TheShogunate]

There were several reason but the big take away was that it just really was not necessary and that Samurai clans actually traded with Ainu people there. Things would of course turn more hostile later.

[@tanusreebhattacharjee9757]

@@TheShogunate ok sir , thank you

[@mikotagayuna8494]

Nobunaga certainly did not invent battle tactics that use firearms to great effect but his competence lies in his willingness to not rely on yesterday's tactics in using tomorrow's weapons.

[@blackpowderkun]

Not just tactics but it affected the social order of his clan by training, arming and rewarding greatly his peasants while other clans prefer to have their samurai to win battles while pheasant soldiers are just extension of their masters.

[@X50lions]

Maybe it can be seen as history is written by the victor. In the sense that the monks couldn't really be like hey we did that first when not many survived and Nobunaga made them more of a footnote and his legacy tied with that of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu overshadowed them.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

For the record Nobunaga burned the entire fortress and surrounded areas to the ground, he left no survivors in the end (though I'm sure there were some survivors that had left the area after previous sieges, but given that they were part of radical religious group viewed as insurgents there weren't many opportunities for them to leave). Tbf though Tokugawa had all the motivation in the world to rewrite history and downplay Nobunaga's role in everything and Nobunaga didn't exactly hide the fact that he readily borrowed ideas from foreigners and rivals so I don't really know how much history being written by the victor would play in Nobunaga's favor.

[@a84c1]

Shooting in volleys of 3 creating massive casualties so yeah.

[@travishunt2083]

Love your vids 😁👍

[@TheShogunate]

Thank you!

[@michaelbandada9887]

If Takeda Shingen managed to hang on all the way to the Battle of Nagashino, will the inevitable collapse of the Takeda Cavalry be prevented with Shingen as the one in charge instead of Takeda Katsuyori or will the Takeda Cavalry perish, only this time, Shingen will die along with his precious cavalry?

[@guardiadecivil6777]

depends if shingen would even make a "battle of nagashino" happen, shingen isn't just as careless as katsuyori was and even when he was caught offguard for example during kawanakajima, he was still able to turn the battle around

[@-RONNIE]

Personally I don't know enough about the history to waiver an opinion on the matter but it was an interesting video keep up the good work

[@Tareltonlives]

Bit of a question: I don't hear much about the use of hand cannons in Japan.Will you ever do a video on their use in Japan before the introduction of Portuguese firearms?

[@Tareltonlives]

My other question is the use of field fortifications. While these were increasingly common on the mainland and we see them used by the Turks, Chinese, French, etc, were they used to the same scale as Nagashino: I'm fairly certainly it wasn't just the musketeers behind the walls but also archers and spearmen.

[@ImmaGhostWarrior]

"Is that so?"

[@Erinxh]

Nobunaga prepared the cake, Hideyoshi baked it and Ieyasu ate it. Without Nobunaga there wouldn't have been any cake.

[@eedwardgrey2]

The Ikko Ikki monks inventing the threekrank volley system before Nobunaga was completely new to me. Either way what I always found impressive is that the Japanese may have developed this system before the Europeans who invented the matchlock.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

oh no they ddin't use a three rank volley system. Neither did Oda exactly, he came up with a near equivalent to it. But the monks of Ishiyama simply were using a multi-tiered fortress defense where each tier would fire as a separate unit. The result is a more sustained rate of fire, but it's not a revolving or multirank firing strategy.

[@skull2470]

Well one could also argue that the monks were in a castle which gave the monks who used matchlocks time to reload some would probably have only seen it as a use in defending a castle. Nobunaga was just the man to say this can be used on the battlefield.

[@Theemptythroneistaken]

It was heavily raining at the Battle of Nagashino which would of absolutely soaked the matchlock firearm gunpowder making it virtually useless! Yes some of them would of went off but the majority of them that did wouldn't of had the same effect as if they were fired during a dry day.

[@pictusfish]

It rained overnight not during the battle. Takeda assumed Oda's gunpowder was wet from the previous nights heavy rainfall thus ordering the charge, as the Takeda calvary would soon find out the Oda did infact manage to keep their powder dry. Matchlock guns will NOT be able to operate with wet gunpowder

[@tntaclegrape]

I didn't even notice SW5 is already out. Huh. Also, what do you mean the Otomo didn't mass employ Portuguese firearms and convert the entire Japan to Christianity in 1545?

[@TheShogunate]

Hahaha I see where you are going with this

[@戰國春秋]

The biggest problem with your reasoning is that there's little to no evidence to suggest that Nobunaga actually using the so-called "rotating fire tactic" during Battle of Nagashino from primary sources such as Shinchō Kōki. AFAIK, this myth largely came from Edo-period war tales and romances. To argue that Nobunaga influenced later samurai firearm tactics, one must first find evidence to support that he actually DID use some kind of novel tactic in the first place.

[@matthewct8167]

Do you know about the KZbin channel The Historians Craft? He goes into the specific sources regarding history. A large part of it is Japanese history.

[@johnlansing2902]

Thank you again …… just an idea , it’s not so much who comes up with the idea but who makes the idea work in the real world ?

[@Warmaker01]

Oda Nobunaga: I need guns. *Lots of guns.*

[@samuelperelgut1700]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is the monk's use of firearms in the siege was not a true implementation of rotating volleys and would be better described as a rotating fire at will. Firstly, it was far less organized and disciplined then Nobunaga's implementation at Nagashino. The monks partially developed the strategy out of necessity rather than raw creativity because they could not fit all the gunners on the wall at once such that everyone would have an effective line of sight with the enemy. Thus the monks would take turns firing from the walls and those not firing would back off and take the time to reload. lastly, those on the wall were not firing synchronized volleys but rather something more along the lines of a somewhat organized fire at will. Therefore I still think it is fair to give Nobunaga credit for the invention of the technique of rotating volleys in japan.

[@TheMercian13]

Oda Nobunaga is done dirty by modern depictions. The monks pioneered it, Nobunaga perfected it due to his (appropriate) fear of the Takeda cavalry. He did revolutionise it, as he made matchlock weapons a key part of samurai warfare, the monks gave him the inspiration and shouldn’t be forgotten. Very little in history goes from 0 to 100 overnight. Most changes are gradual, Oda took what the Monks did and vastly improved on the tactics. He would eventually have come up with this strategy, the Monks just made it happen faster.

[@jeffreysams3348]

Love the "All along the Watchtower" reference... The perfect sengoku jidai song. Agree very much with your conclusions... 2 minor points.. Nobunaga was actually shot in the f leg by Honganji troops at the Siege of Mitsuji (and Ban Naomasa was killed there). Also the palisades not only provided protection for the troops behind them (which is obvious) but part of the idea was to take away the mobility of the Takeda cavalry and take away the ability of sudden flank attacks.. It was absolutely brilliant to bring, in effect, mobile forts to the battlefield. Finally 2 "All along the watchtower" version as a gift to all...Including 1 from a vicious but fictional war kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJvOdXyVidV5a8k and kzbin.info/www/bejne/paO5pIpjgtB8epo

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

Although it's not explicitly mentioned I suspect the most important aspect of the palisades was to help provide rain cover for the gunpowder. Part of why Takeda Katsuyori was so overconfident in the battle of Nagashino is that it was briefly raining when he ordered the charge.

[@jimross7648]

Any new weapons system are always first effectively used by insurgent or rebel groups because they are trying to counter the numerically superior military of whomever they are rebelling or resisting, Nagashino led to others copying and adapting tactics, which changed how Japanese warfare was conducted. Therefore, Nobunaga had a greater influence in the overall

[@pezhvak7521]

داش خاطرات بچگیم زنده شد😍😍😍😍

[@topansunaryo8209]

Why did you pair oda with bow? Everyone know Odachi is the best

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

Well if we taken Bonapartes army as example then yes,

[@malinirdeep73]

The fool of Owari.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

I think it's unfair to even compare this to a musician song cover. Many people accidentally discover something out of necessity but neither had a methodology to it's creation nor a recognition of it's value. The monks of Ishiyama didn't devise a strategy and technique of gun use to specifically counter Nobunaga's generals and strategists. They simply employed the tools they had on hand in the way they understood them. Nobunaga witnessed it, analysed it, organized his forces to properly employ it and brought it out specifically to counter Takeda Katsuyori's strategy at Nagashino. In other words this is comparable to someone finding a rock on a beach, picking it up and throwing it at someone. Then the person that was struck by that rock taking it home, refining it into a new metal and forging it into weapons. There is no doubt who had the larger impact on samurai warfare during the Sengoku Jidai. This also wasn't the only area that Nobunaga proved himself innovative and willing to embrace new ideas.

[@vonright1229]

Triple volley, fire men!!!

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

No offense, but honestly all of the hokey special effects and "powerups" of that game only distract from your realistic content.

[@ihl0700677525]

I wonder why the Japanese did not copy (or at least did not do it on large scale) Chinese and Western *artillery.* IMO, while Japanese castle and fortification are impressive, it could be reduced by systematic bombardment. Even medieval trebuchet, a dozen of them, should be enough to whittle down these fortification. But perhaps they did deploy considerable artillery, and I just don't know because Japanese siege engines (of pre-Industrial era) is rarely depicted in the media.

[@robertbodell55]

While the Japanese did make use of cannon they tended to to be smaller, lighter pieces for several reasons. At the time they had only recently started to be able to produce matchlock tangashima in numbers and the technical skills required to make larger artillery pieces were only starting to develop. They did import some smaller pivot guns en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading_swivel_gun#/media/File:Oda_Nobunaga_swivel_breech_loading_gun.jpg which was produced in Goa India by the portages for warlord Otomo Sorin and used large two man massive matchlocks called . Oda Nobunaga had the first domestically produced canon 2x two pounder pieces. The main limitation was geography Japan is a mountainous island chain which made heavy siege guns impractical. The following blog has some good information including a variety of images gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2019/04/taiho-japanese-cannons-and-artillery.html

[@ihl0700677525]

@@robertbodell55 Alright, maybe heavy guns were impractical, but what about trebuchet? That kind of siege engines could be constructed on spot.

[@nicholasgutierrez9940]

@@ihl0700677525 Trebuchet no, catapults yes. The answer is that Japanese castles were built to be earthquake proof. Essentially there were no real weak points to exploit in a bombardment. The walls wouldn't crumble because they were made of earth not stone like other castles. Artillery would be very limited and not that useful. That's why you see a lot of people using water or fire to take down castles.

[@ihl0700677525]

@@nicholasgutierrez9940 Traditional "stone wall" were usually made from packed dirt with stone or brick edifices (probably to resist erosion), and trebuchet projectiles could weaken and eventually smash them no problem. In any case, packed dirt (of same volume) has much less strength compared to modern concrete (which is why modern fortification were/are made from concrete, not packed dirt), and enough kinetic impact from something like steel wrecking ball will eventually break any concrete wall. So I don't buy the idea that Japanese castles were/are impervious against trebuchet/canon projectiles. I agree with the other commenter, that the Japanese seldom use guns or trebuchet due to its mountainous geography.

[@dustinm8520]

Just trying to help.

[@Yusa_Beach]

I liked Samurai warriors 3 cos of the graphics. Seemed more samuraish

[@michaelbandada8330]

Samurai Warriors 1- the first game in the series Samurai Warriors 2- one of the best games in the series and it has storylines not Oda-centric like the Battle of Sekigahara Samurai Warriors 3- it focuses on other clans like the Hojo and the Mori and their adventures during the Sengoku Jidai Samurai Warriors 4- it is a complete retelling of the Sengoku Jidai in video game form Samurai Warriors 5- it is a soft reboot of the game focusing on Oda Nobunaga’s lifetime

[@malinirdeep73]

Inbred Katsuyori should never have become the Takeda Daimyo.

[@g17yt99]

Oda getting demon kong reputation after wipe out those corrupted monks who loves prostitute and brutalize peasant

[@MCorpReview]

If he can fight like the game, prob won’t need a flimsy gun

[@araso9859]

Washija

[@malinirdeep73]

Shoot the horses first. The Takeda army rely on cavalry.