Did Oz break out of the library jail? 🌕 🐺 Buffy the Vampire Slayer s3e4 Reaction & Commentary

Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 3 reaction
Buffy Beauty and the Beasts reaction
Xander gets some important sleep, Oz deals with his monthlies and, somehow, Cordy misses everything
Our movie channel, Sam & Maria:
/ @samandmariachannel
Our Patreon:
/ thebuffsummer

[@PrettyNPremirePro]

Oh an adult at school is nice to Buffy! INSTANTLY DIES

[@TheBuffSummer]

Tragic parts of Buffy - Maria

[@spamfilter32]

Whoever wrote the scene where Pete put his head in Debbies lap and had her comfort him, has had intimate experience with abusive relationships.

[@krose6451]

Agreed. That its then mirrored by Angel at the end makes me grt twisted up between how it makes me feel and wo dering what they were aiming for. If they were actually aiming for anything. Maybe thye just did it knowing some would pick up on it and react as they would.

[@spamfilter32]

@@krose6451 yes. The parallels are important.

[@roxirock5455]

I think it reases the question really well on how much you can actually help someone with those kinds of issues, without becoming a victim yourself when you're in this kind of relationship.

[@alicequinn505]

@krose6451 They were aiming for tackling serious issues in an episode of the week format while progressing storylines and using the characters they have. The writers are not gods, not every metaphor is perfect. That being said, we can decide for ourselves if we thinkAngel makes Buffy feel inadequate and guilty for the crimes that he does, and hurts her in an unfair way. My opinion is he doesn't, it's a different relationship than the main couple of this episode has, but maybe somebody else has more intimate understanding of the type of relationship Buffy/Angel have, and think differently. Either way, I try not to read too much into it.

[@alex.9398]

Buffy's therapist was so cool and would have been great for her to have. So of course he can't last.

[@TheBuffSummer]

I know!! ahhh so wanted him to stay 😔 - Maria

[@alex.9398]

@@TheBuffSummer But then it would be harder to have a show. Oh well.

[@shaynestewart9297]

That's how it goes sometimes.

[@spamfilter32]

Buffy taught me teachers that are good at their job get murdered. So, if you want to be a teacher... suck at your job.

[@krose6451]

Same with the science teacher in season 1. 😢 anytime Buffys shown support from a character we've never seen before its time to worry.

[@bugwaterbuffy]

never wonder what the parents of sunnydale are doing instead of BEING PARENTS, youll drive yourself mad

[@spamfilter32]

That scene in the library where Buffy surprised Faith and Faith hit her. SMG missed her blocking and Eliza actually hit her. SMG holding her chin was real.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Nice! - Maria

[@bugwaterbuffy]

loving the completely heterosexual way faith is like 'tell me everything abt the way you hook up with scott give me details explicitly'

[@RB-vo4gi]

I just love the idea of Oz breaking out of the library through the tiny cracked open window and then… breaking back INTO the library through that same window. I know they had to think of every possible outcome, but it seems impossible.

[@roxirock5455]

Not really actually. Oz as a wear wolf is basically an animal, a violent animal, but an animal nonetheless. And an animal usually retreats to wherever his hiding out is after hunting. Considering it's all basic instincts, it's actually the likely outcome. It actually makes a lot of sense to think he'd return to the place he's been in for a lot of nights instead of venturing into the unknown. The smell is familiar, it's warm and it's safe, his stuff is there and he knows the route. And considering how much care Willow put into this, he probably has toys and food and water.

[@RB-vo4gi]

@@roxirock5455 I just meant that the opening they assume he crawled out of seems rather small for a werewolf as big as he is.

[@HuntingViolets]

@@RB-vo4gi Yes, and even if he could get out of it, being able to get back in and get the window to the same state of being open as previously is really dicey.

[@CreiwryJay]

Not gona lie, the "don't get hit" line makes me physically ill

[@TheBuffSummer]

Yeah, one of the tougher ones - Maria

[@shaynestewart9297]

This episode is a tough one. Abusive relationships can be spotted at times, but the emotional attachment can be hard to break.

[@drewrayg]

“Quite a muffin” a la Stud muffin

[@la_beatrice]

Re: Buffy not telling anyone. It may not be the right thing, considering the potential danger he poses to everyone but I understand her. It's... a lot. She killed him a second after he got his soul back, now he's back, maybe after centuries of torment. Some people deal with things better when they talk about it, but some need time to process on their own before they take that step. I personally need some time when dealing with a tough situation, to be able to to talk about it. It's not always about hiding or avoiding, it's just the first stage of processing. For some people, that first stage needs to be done alone.

[@roxirock5455]

When I watched this the first time I really believed not telling her friends was a mistake, but on the second re-watch the decision got a lot more understandable to me

[@mikaneonbowiegirl]

«She has to slay him again» 😂

[@Nexusofgeek]

The TV did that snowy thing means programming stopped. In some local stations there wasn’t 24 hour programming, after a period of time usually late at night some stations went off the air and resumed programming the following day. The screen went pixelated and resembled digital snow. Willow means she didn’t sleep all night

[@TheBuffSummer]

Thanks for the info! Hilarious thing is that I know what tv static is, but I’ve never thought of it as snowy thing 😄 - Maria

[@paulhammond6978]

@@TheBuffSummer They used to actually call that static "snow" too - but TV has been 24 hour for so long, and is now digital where I live that I have forgotten about that now. Just looked it up too - there's a whole wikipedia article on it called "Noise (video)" which begins "Noise, commonly known as static, white noise, static noise, or snow" and goes through what they called it in various other languages in the body of the article.

[@TheBuffSummer]

@paulhammond6978 as I’m thinking about it, totally makes sense 😄 - Maria

[@galpeleg143]

1 small remark , the inspiration to this episode was from a book classic called "Dr Jackil and Mr Hide"

[@TheBuffSummer]

True true. It's been ages since I studied it in uni, might be time to revisit Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Maria

[@Alexandra_Indina]

The first Winchester in Hell was Dean 😃

[@TheBuffSummer]

True. Sam was thinking specifically about, well, about Sam's experience in Hell. Whoever was the first one didn't matter, he was remembering the story itself, so we just didn't say it right 😄 - Maria

[@la_beatrice]

Spoilers for Supernatural ​@@PrettyNPremirePro Both had serious PTSD, and I thought of Dean first, but then I remembered that Sam needed a wall inside his mind to block the torture memories when he got his soul back, and when that got torn down he had trouble identifying what was real and what wasn't.

[@TheBuffSummer]

@la_beatrice exactly! Partly because of the person he shared the cage with, of course - Maria

[@lyndsycarson8302]

Love Sam and Maria’s t-shirt, choker, glasses looks… so awesome. castiel” i’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition” 😂 so good! i’m christian but it was still some of my favorite episodes.

[@maggiemm8867]

I appreciate how sensitive y'all were to the whole episode/characters. ❤

[@TheBuffSummer]

Thank you 🙏 - Maria

[@ragabashmoon1551]

Yea ,they make a good point in this episode. Drugs but especially alcohol don't change your behavior. They just remove your inhibitions. So a happy silly drunk is just being themselves once the alcohol has made them stop caring about being proper, but an abusive drunk is the same. They do not think "I should not physically abuse my loved ones that make me angry." and so they do..

[@ObserverAmanda]

I said something similar on their Patreon. That _thing_ was already present in the person even if they might not consciously recognize it or want to act on it under "normal" circumstances.

[@Buffy8Fan]

I never considered this one as dark as I've been doing so within the last couple years. I always knew the gravity of the material, but I reread the novel a few years ago and something triggered how I view the darker aspects of it.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Oh yeah. I think, same for me. A bold story to tell - Maria

[@sharonsimmons6427]

The actor playing the therapist, is that Mr. Moseby, from ‘The Suite Life of Zach and Cody’? I swear, he sounds, and looks like him!

[@skyedestiny]

It totally is! He was on a number of 90s shows. He actually played recurring characters on Friends too - different ones all the time lol

[@TheBuffSummer]

@skyedestiny I only see one credit for Friends. Who else did he play? I remember him on so many other shows, but not this one - Maria

[@skyedestiny]

Hmm!! It's hard because I don't remember all the Friends episode names. I thought I had remembered seeing him in multiple roles on the show but it's possible that Im just remembering him from multiple 90s shows??? xD;

[@TheBuffSummer]

@skyedestiny I’d say both options are possible 😄 - Maria

[@sharonsimmons6427]

@@TheBuffSummer He was a friend of Monica’s that worked in advertising, and gave Chandler a job, when he thought he wanted to do advertising as his new career. I can remember him in a scene with Chandler, in the coffee shop. Lol

[@timriehl1500]

I think another reason she didn't want to tell Giles, was because of what Angel did to Jenny; how would Giles react to Angel being back?

[@TheBuffSummer]

I wonder if she thought of that, and then it was Angelus, not Angel. As hard as it would be for Giles to accept that, still a fact - Maria

[@ms_scribbles]

Giles is probably the last person she feels she can tell, considering what Angelus did to Jenny.

[@roxirock5455]

Yes! I felt so bad for Buffy because she's right. Her friends would freak if she tried talking to them.

[@roxirock5455]

I'd say the best one to tell might be Willow. Her, usually being supportive and also understanding about Angel. Always wanting to help them out and her being the one to get his soul back. Plus she and Oz go though something relatively similar. Giles wouldn't be the best option because of what you said. Cordelia wouldn't understand and wouldn't probably keep the secret. Also terrible help. Xander. Omg do NOT tell him first. Oz? Maybe. But Buffy is closer to Willow.

[@spangelicious837]

Good question about Oz's family and what they know or don't know. I think it's simply a matter of the writers didn't think about it.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Yeah, I'd say so - Maria

[@Itsjandz105]

muffin = stud muffin

[@TheBuffSummer]

Gotcha! - Maria

[@henninggirl261]

It’s because of the horror genre that I took a self defense class where I learned how to turn a trip (forwards, backwards and sideways) into a roll back onto my feet.

[@spamfilter32]

The window being open wasn't Xanders fault. They should have checked that before locking Oz in the cage. By the time Xander got there, he would not have been able to do anything to stop Oz from escaping out that window.

[@krose6451]

I think the implication was Oz got it open and because Xander was sleeping he didnt notice to knock Oz out with the tranquilizer before he could succeed in getting it open.

[@roxirock5455]

It was still his fault for not keeping an eye on him. If he saw him not be in the cage anymore he could have called Buffy or went to get her to bring him back.

[@airawynsummers]

But they would have known Oz wasn't the killer if Xander had stayed awake.

[@spamfilter32]

@@airawynsummers that is true.

[@HuntingViolets]

Whedon was going for the metaphor of "having sex with a guy and his turning into a monster" in writing that arc with Angel, so it was pretty easy to switch it in the dialogue. The monsters are pretty much metaphors for the high school experience at this point. (I realize you know this.)

[@sharonsimmons6427]

Great reaction guys, thank you! A disturbing story to watch, but with so many important points to acknowledge. These are a few, common scenarios of abusive relationships, I noticed them touch on. How few people are aware that abuse is even going on. The abused being part of the problem, by not seeking or accepting help, denying the abuse, and defending their abuser. The victim being manipulated by the perpetrator, into thinking that they are the problem. The abuser being so jealous, that innocent outsiders are targeted, when seen as a threat. And finally, abuse always escalates.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Thank you so much! Absolutely, an important one - Maria

[@bugwaterbuffy]

the angel shaped burn is so camp

[@Intellectual-Warrior9]

Yeah a therapist isn't personally involved. I wish would have been part of the rest of the show.

[@krose6451]

The therapist, the original principal, and the nice science teacher from season 1 are all folks I wish had been around longer both for our viewing but also for Buffy and the other students. The the janitor and the female teacher from the ghost possession episode are the ones I feel most bad for though. Something about that situation makes me feel for them the most.

[@roxirock5455]

We are presented with 3 "monstrous" couples in this episode, all representing different things and different ways to deal with what I'd call anger issues. 1 Willow and Oz. They've got it all figured out. They have a system, they talk to each other and eventhough its not all smooth sailing, they're doing fine. 2 Buffy and Angel. They're both disoriented and confused. They both have good intentions, but are struggling and dont know what to do, don't know if it's already too late. 3 do i even need to say it? Abuser and abuse victim. It ends in tragedy.

[@claudiapinto3669]

Another great reaction, guys. And you're right, this is a tough watch but necessary to have these stories. I'm always torn on Buffy's decision not to tell anyone but I do understand it. Without spoiling anything, let's just say she learns from this in later seasons.

[@menachemsalomon]

Regarding Pete: If he went full Hyde and then unknow.ingly hurt people, I could see the argument for confinement and rehabilitation. But (a) he knows he's hurt and killed in the past, (b) does not regret it, and (c) seeks out victims (Oz, for example) before going full Hyde. That's not just an abuser, that's a serial killer, on the prowl. Which, in my book, is worthy of a death sentence if he can be caught, and killing him to keep him from killing anyone else while he's an active danger. It's not sad that he was killed, though it might be sad that he needed to be killed. (The news this weekend contained a real-life story from Down Under, to which I am comparing it to, and feel the same way regarding the assailant/murderer, at least as far as initial reports go.)

[@Skye_Writer]

This was an important as bf/gf "domestic violence" had become something of an epidemic at the time. And when someone becomes abusive early enough in your life, it gets REALLY hard to break the cycle.

[@piarateking8094]

there needs to be some kind of supernatural rehab/treatment facility

[@TheBuffSummer]

Absolutely! - Maria

[@noahrobin1941]

Not the first time the set has been decorated to the theme of the episode/scene: Spot The Sign™ over Buffy’s shoulder @30:24

[@roxirock5455]

I love the way Buffy adapted book stories. I always saw this as their take on The strange case of Jeckle and Hide. Full disclosure, i have not read the book, so im going off vibes and popculture knowledge only, so if im wrong please correct me. Frankenstein focuses on familiar love and the relationship between the creator and its "monster", blurring the lines of humanity. Buffy does the same thing, only with brothers. The invisible man, yes, while isolation might have helped drive him mad, he was always a bit of a bad person who wanted to achieve something so badly that he didnt realize he was cursing himself. The same happens in Buffy, while we do feel bad for the girl, she still tried to kill a bunch of inocent people for popularity and revenge.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Totally makes sense - Maria

[@carlypowell_7]

I always laugh at the sign behind Buffy when she and Willow are talking to Debbie about Pete and it says " Most Women aren't attracted to Dead Guys"

[@TheBuffSummer]

oh my god! I'll check that out - Maria

[@chimaxx]

Interested to see what you think. Gotta admit, this is one I skip on rewatches of the show.

[@TheBuffSummer]

I can understand that - Maria

[@randycrawford1132]

In another episode before Oz got news from his aunt about her son biting Oz

[@bugwaterbuffy]

yall tryna figure out who mr moseby (the counselor) is and im like mr moseby !!!! bwhahahha

[@HuntingViolets]

_Supernatural_ is also influenced by _Good Omens_ (the book).

[@aliciasavage6801]

The whole shows a metaphor - because its not real.

[@spamfilter32]

I heard that the Doors were pretty heavy on improv too.

[@becca1189]

For your own viewing. YT channel Cinema Therapy (with Jon, licensed therapist, & Alan, filmmaker), Psychology of a Hero: HULK and Anger Management (29min). It's an amazing channel. Informative with humor (when appropriate). Jon is what one would want in a therapist. He's so compassionate. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜

[@TheBuffSummer]

I haven't checked up on them in a while, but I'm really happy that such a channel exists😊🙏 - Maria

[@HuntingViolets]

I very much recommend _The Call of the Wild._

[@Brenson91]

You guys should watch ginger snaps ❤

[@TheBuffSummer]

Do you mean just for ourselves or on Sam & Maria? - Maria

[@Brenson91]

@@TheBuffSummerI mean I would love to see you guys watch it it’s a cult classic and I don’t think everyone would enjoy it’s a bit weird 🧡 but I love it

[@TheBuffSummer]

@Brenson91 gotcha 😄 Sam did a reaction video for it on the movie budz channel around 3 years ago. We both enjoyed the movie a lot. I’d love to watch it again 🖤 It got demonetised last time though, so we might have to cut some things out for KZbin or do it for Patreon exclusively - Maria

[@risanne88]

This episode is always really hard to watch, I think when supernatural shows insert the humanity into the evil doing it hits on a different level, I think Supernatural did something similar in "The Benders" from Season 1.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Oh yeah, I'm with you on that - Maria

[@user-dx2dm8oq8g]

That's sad that Scott stayed friends with that guy for that long, he treated him and his girlfriend like trash. The girl with some therapy could be decent and change for the better, that's probably why the therapist was killed. Scott definitely has self-esteem issues. This is clear with the number of times he makes a pass at Buffy after she turns him down or leaves abruptly.

[@krose6451]

6:11 moments like this make me not only like Scott but like the glimpse of who Buffy gets to be with him 7:48 this! Why would they trust Xander with Oz watch? Especially as if he's found in the school after hours there would be issues. Presumably Giles should be there as staff. Make it a multi person thing to assure wakefullness and backup if things go wrong. 34:05 this moment where Angel shifts back and falls to his knees holding one thats stuck with me as a stand out of the entire series. Its one of the few moments I really feel for and appreciate Angel as a character on this show.

[@TheBuffSummer]

Yeah, they could use a watcher there. Oh yeah, definitely a memorable moment - Maria

[@wembleyford]

You managed to completely ignore that Buffy does exactly what Xander did the previous night and instead of getting a balling out gets a fresh beveridge instead. Watchers pet.

[@feudist]

IKR?

[@Darkjade93]

My thoughts are that if Wolf Oz opened the gate or window to get out that Buff's Slayer sense would alert her in a way Xander wouldn't, so Giles doesn't mind as much

[@cajah88]

Buffy didn't do "exactly" what Xander did. Xander went to sleep right away. Buffy was up researching for who knows how long and probably went to sleep closer to morning where Oz would be much less of a possible threat.

[@RB-vo4gi]

Xander is asked to watch Oz in werewolf form. He lies saying that he’ll read, do other activities, etc to stay awake, but whenever they leave he immediately used a book as a pillow and fell asleep. (I imagine Giles found him laid out on the table exactly like that when he showed up in the morning.) Buffy, however, was very clearly researching, was trying to stay awake, and accidentally fell asleep, after who knows how many hows of researching. There’s a huge difference.

[@Raksha38]

It's like that Gordon Ramsay meme where it's the screenshot of him cuddling an upset little girl saying "Oh dear, oh dear, gorgeous" (Buffy) next to a screenshot of him screaming "You f****** donkey!" (Xander).

[@GAZMAN2002]

Everyone's family in this show are garbage the scoobies are their family

[@DaDunge]

It's too bad th werewolf costume is so bad, because Oz ahs soem real good lines. Especially in this episode "Times up, rules change"

[@bugwaterbuffy]

the talk buffy has with that girl has alway felt so personally hurtful n like my slayer was just spouting some writters opinion, i can never get over how hearing my saviour buffy summers say 'dont get hit then' it broke my heart i just cant believe thats how buffy really feels i know its uspposed to show her traum but it still feels so off

[@RB-vo4gi]

I think it’s just because Buffy is relating to Debbie in that moment (with the “anyone who loves you wouldn’t treat you this way”: she learned from when Angel lost his soul). She would never treat herself with kid gloves, never treat herself kindly over what she views as her mistakes, so why would she with Debbie?

[@TheBuffSummer]

She's a teenager with a lot on her plate, including tons of trauma. It's hard to hear, but I do not fault her for saying that - Maria

[@spamfilter32]

Buffy actually handled Debbie really badly. There is a reason for it though. Buffy identified with Debbie, for beingnin an abusive relationship. And just like how she couldn't forgive the Ghost Boy in I only Have Eyes For You because she identified with him, it is the same for Debbie. Buffy is overly harsh on Debbie, because she is unable to forgive herself for being in an abusive relationship. For still loving the person who abused her.

[@krose6451]

For an ignorant teenager in the 90s I think she did decently but yes, not how such a thing should be handled. Of course we have to keep in mind the goal wasnt helping the victum but finding the killer before more victums could be added to the count.

[@spamfilter32]

@@krose6451 the important point though is why did Buffy handle it poorly. She handled it poorly because she related to Becky and she can't forgive herself, so she can't forgive those she sees herself in.

[@crystalpistey-lyhne3406]

I❤This Show So!🫣🫨🐺🧛‍♀️🎛💗🖥