did tiktok ruin publishing?

First video of the year let's go! Today we are talking about booktok on TikTok and it's affect on traditional publishing, self publishing, and overall book marketing and quality.
William's book podcast- / @unresolvedtextualtension
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[@Kokoamaya935]

Publishing ruined itself. Requiring authors to promote on TikTok is like lighting a cigarette at a gas station. Disaster was inevitable

[@kgal1298]

The music industry did the same thing, tiktok is just popular now, but using social media for self promotions hasn't changed.

[@alexyssaubrie1606]

Publishing ruined itself. YUP. But it’s much easier to blame teens on tiktok and indie writers.

[@celestialmajesty2053]

Why's there a bunch of the same comment

[@crazyowlgirlcncowner]

​@@celestialmajesty2053 Bots

[@mrandisg]

@@celestialmajesty2053 Bots? That's my guess.

[@mrbork7218]

I think the problem is that books are becoming webnovels. Like when you look at a new tv adaptation and it feels like a fanfiction even though it's original. Everything is a fist draft.

[@zedlaftzegarld]

"Everything is a first draft" Feels like back when Divergent etc came out and none of the series panned out well bc they were all rushed out

[@sapaulgoogdmen9542]

The first draft where it 1. There’s an argument 2. They fall in love 3. Good guys win…or did they? Which turns into lazy and clumsily written reasons for group conflicts, clearly choreographed romance subplots that are so obvious it’s not fun when they get together, and rushed endings that aren’t endings so they can have a sequel and maybe trilogy. Cause everything has to be a freaking trilogy and nothing can be a standalone story.

[@34wetstoats]

I feel like booktok is literally fanfics for people who didn't have a fanfic phase or are too normie for fanfic. Nothing wrong with wanting easy to read self indulgent romance, but like how is that all you read.

[@EricKay_Scifi]

"Everything is a fist draft." I see what you did there. Slow clap Mr. Bork. 👏

[@asea1203]

Webnovel is going down in quality as well ( which is hard to believe since it was low quality to begin with)

[@MiniKitty27]

poor quality fanfiction writing is a lot more forgivable than poor quality writing in actually published books _because_ everyone reading fanfiction knows that it was made for free and out of love of whatever the fandom they're writing for is

[@jemm113]

On that same note, I’ve read fanfiction that’s far more COMPETENT and COMPELLING than actual published works 😂

[@MiniKitty27]

@@jemm113 oh 10000000%

[@jemm113]

@@MiniKitty27 like I’ve read a LOT of Worm crossover fics and holy moly the quality that community can pump out is insane!

[@saga685]

I worked in publishing; it was well on the way to being “fast fashion” before TikTok, but the platform sped up the process. There are so many books being published specifically to cater to a trend, and everyone in the room knows it’ll stop selling in under a year. The people running these companies don’t care about books, they only care about money - and THAT’s what’s ruining publishing.

[@LynnHermione]

learn what fast fashion is

[@dismurrart6648]

​@@LynnHermioneI worked in fashion. The metaphor is apt

[@Not_Always]

@@LynnHermione fast fashion is just what it sounds like. Cheap crap made to be produced quickly to profit off trends that don't last.

[@KawaiiCat2]

**insert vampire werwolf erotic romance novels** 😬

[@deirenne]

Teen fantasy romance craze from the00s, followed by dystopian YA craze from the 10s be like O__O

[@hart0526]

I do wish people would stop using “fanfiction” when they really just mean “bad.” A lot of fanfiction is really well written and a lot of it is not, just like published works

[@kimikaami8498]

THIS. I feel like people say “fanfiction” as a catch-all for things like, I don’t know, shallow characters or worldbuilding or stories that fall into popular tropes when that’s… not what fanfiction is? Like the point of fanfic is that it’s an expansion upon the original story. When you write a fic, you don’t reestablish character personalities or re explain the world bc that would be redundant. And then the tropes that may be employed are layered upon that preexisting knowledge. The depth that can be found in fanfic comes from this. An “only one bed” trope fanfic can be really meaningful when you know one of your characters has a hard time letting themselves become close to another person, and that fic may even go on to detangle and examine that trauma beyond just the fluff. I think “bad” original fiction commits sins that work fine in fic because original fiction is built from the ground up and readers don’t have previous knowledge like we do for fic. Like, to use my last example, a romance book that uses the only one bed trope isn’t gonna work for me if the author doesn’t do a good job establishing the character’s trauma and how it impacts their life beforehand. Unfortunately, as booktok establishes new trends, I think authors will keep leaning on these cookie cutter tropes, which can and often are used effectively, but require proper setup beforehand which some authors may not have the time to do as well as they might want to :/ Sorry for the paragraph. Thanks for reading though lol.

[@FigmentForever]

My intro to fanfic, as someone who’s been on the internet since 1994, was finding out 50 Shades starting out as a Twilight fanfic. I’ve never been someone that actively sought out that community. Another one I stumbled upon was the train wreck that was My Immortal. However, I find value in most art & know those are not good examples of fanfic - as it would be equating TV Shows to only being represented by Soap Operas & cringy Nickelodeon tv shows with both of their “over-acting”. The authors I follow do not actively engage in social media beyond their blogs & don’t let any “influencer” dictate the direction of urgency of their turnout/plots. I honestly feel like TikTok highlights the worst of societal issues (I.E. - instant gratification). I Genuinely lost a good friend because I refused to download the TikTok app & help boost their channel. This is a self-referential tangent but I avoid the app & it’s associated content like it’s C-VID

[@Vickynger]

i actually feel that fanfic is often way more inventive and creative than published fiction bc authors can take risks or be as self indulgent as they want and dont have to worry about selling anything. in that way its actually BETTER than a lot of trivial, trite, derivative published fiction that only got published BECAUSE its similar to something else. (side note but i love how fanfic authors always find new and unique ways to make characters fuck, theyre uniquely creative when it comes to that lmao)

[@chuuyas_hat]

i know!! this misconception really bothers me too!! do people just not read enough fanfiction?!?! like some of them are cry-worthy i'm sorry

[@thejenmath]

I’ve read so much fanfic that’s as good if not better than the original fiction I’ve read.

[@kristavaillancourt6313]

I worked as a bookseller from 2011 to 2022. In that time I saw publishing change significantly. It got smarter about turning books into franchises. Books would release with information about the movie deal that was made at the same time as the book deal. People could read the book and knew it was going to be a movie soon from page one. Colleen Hoover wrote most of her books before 2011. Tiktok hype is what brought her books into the mainstream. Before that we carried her books in a dusty corner of the romance section and no one asked about them. Before tiktok, youtube brought interest to books. I knew about The Iron Widow from the author before the book landed in stores.

[@saranaila5905]

I see Colleen hoover books even here in book stores in north Africa, I don't know anyone who's actually reading them though it's a little weird. There isn't a big population of English readers here but you can always find a few books in English in the past it was iconic authors like Agatha Christie (me and my friend used to buy them in middle school) but now all I see is "art of war " and Colleen hoover books or motivational books. Not interesting to me whatsoever.

[@LostAndSortaHighVibes]

KZbin only does Colleen Hate Reviews now. Which doesn't make sense because if you hate every book of hers you read, why keep reading and reviewing them. 😅 I would love if someone would actually review books they liked from small authors. (And not just celebrities trending books, then back to the infinite hate train.) I could use some good book recommendations.

[@EllieCarina]

Incidentally they tell us hopeful screenwriters to get a book published first of the movie we really want to make 😅

[@cailinanne]

@@EllieCarinaand that drives me insane as an avid movie goer. We want original screen plays!!! Studios have no understanding of the audience and are so incredibly risk adverse 🙄

[@EllieCarina]

@@cailinanne it’s crazy-making. Especially since they act like one could just breeze into a publishing house like there you go, would you be a darling and make this a bestseller for me real quick since you’ve obviously been waiting for me and I‘d like to make this into a movie? Like… how?! It’s like wanting to build a car but being told like in order to do that, you need to build a boat first.

[@thisisabookchannel]

the anti-haul was also extra weird because their followers bought those books off that influencer's amazon wishlist, so she was wasting her *_followers'_* money

[@shannonceleste5557]

I mean :/ unfortunately lots of influencers act in bad faith and are more than happy to have their followers waste their own hard earned money on absolute garbage

[@Not_Always]

can we leave the term influencer in 2023?

[@blobtheblob7975]

@@Not_Always literally why? it's a job description not an offensive word

[@BryanLu0]

​@@Not_AlwaysEven if you aren't personally influenced by influencers, other people are

[@Not_Always]

@ville__ it's not a job. Having a social media account where you upload pictures of yourself is not a job

[@foxxxyg]

My step mom wrote a book and was ignored by publishers. She decided to self publish and her book made it to some lists and tiktok and all of a sudden she was reached out to by publishers. She decided she may publish her next series with a big house but is feeling annoyed that publishers are supposed to see potential and take/prpmote your book but now it's flipped. They only take books from authors that have proved themselves independently through self publishing or by being a person of note. It makes sense cuz capitalism but it's still stupid and tiktok is a big part of it

[@fulcafcoffee]

Im sorry this happened to your mom! Publishing is frustrating and complicated. To be honest most publishers don’t read unagented submissions unless the author has big attention, even then they will probably ask her to get an agent before signing anything. A big house will cover all their bases, including making sure an author has an agent, who can go between them

[@mollyapteros]

congrats to your step mom though! What's her book? :)

[@nerdoftheatre]

I graduated with my bachelor's in English in 2020. From what I've seen from the people I graduated with - publishers don't care about you or your work unless you already have an established social media presence. Which is not only confusing, but infuriating. Like, how are you supposed to HAVE a big social media presence unless you have a book published already?

[@foxxxyg]

@@fulcafcoffee I think she has an agent now. If I remember even getting an agent can be a whole complicated mess.

[@fulcafcoffee]

@@foxxxyg yes it can be! Ive been bouncing around the industry, everyone is overworked, understaffed, exhausted, and underpaid. Agents are receiving unprecedented submissions, and editors are being more difficult than ever. The industry is thriving and messy all at once haha, i feel like im living ugly betty. But! Your moms in + thats a really great step, so i really wish her the best of luck

[@samuelline9573]

I dont want to blame the AO3 tag system, but it really feels like BookTok is trying to apply the AO3 tag system to the broader genre if literature and that's why we see such a reliance in tropes as a books marketing

[@dawnelle]

I think Ao3 and other sites definitely could have been part of the influence, and I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. I mean, the tagging system is really helpful, it’s so nice being able to see a whole list of what you can expect out of a story. I do think the over-reliance on the tropes is a little annoying, mostly because it often times comes off as “this enemies-to-lovers book with this plot” rather than “this book with this plot that happens to have enemies-to-lovers,” and it feels like it downplays the book’s own merit. It’s even more annoying when they’re completely mis-marketed and wiggled into a category of tropes they don’t necessarily belong to. Colleen Hoover’s “It Ends With Us” being marketed and recommended as primarily a romance, sometimes with no mention at all of the abuse that happens in that book, is a good example. I can’t think of a good way to fix the issue, though. People will always use what they can to market things, and with how fast TikTok seems to move, I can’t blame them for promoting using buzzing tropes. Who knows if it will ever slow down.

[@shebreathesingold8043]

Because tropes sell. And yes, the idea is derived from fanfiction, because fanfic writers know what readers want.

[@justwonder1404]

The difference people who do that don't seem to understand is that on AO3 people want to see certain tropes happening to the characters they already know and love, something they didn't get from the story itself. Using the same tag system with original books can give hints on the content but says nothing about the quality of the story.

[@00avacado00]

@@justwonder1404 this is what I always bring up when people talk about ao3 tagging and booktok tropes. The fact that fanfiction is inherently derivative (not saying this in a negative way, but in the technical sense of it is derived from/based on a pre-existing work) means that fic readers already have knowledge of the setting, tone, genre, characters, etc. of the work they're reading, and so tagging tropes is a way to give further details of the story you're writing within that established world. It really doesn't work for original works because all of the real structural components of your story are unknown to the reader, particularly things like genre and tone. There can be very dark horror novels that have the enemies to lovers (or what have you) trope but if it's only advertised using those, readers who don't like horror will be in for a (potentially unwelcome) surprise when they pick it up. It's all about the context and what is previously known about the work

[@FearlessFighterAkida]

I think it is less about AO3s tagging method, and more so publishers trying to just capitalize off of certain tropes, cliches, dynamics, etc. being popular and people being starved for content of that nature. An actual tagging system for books, especially if the authors can tag their works, would be great for finding specific content that you want to read about while also giving you a synopsis of what the story is about.

[@princessjellyfish98]

You hit the nail on the head with the fanfiction thing. Not to say that fanfiction is all bad, a lot of it is really good! But it's free and it's a labor of love, and it's from a community of people who love a preexisting story and characters, so categorizing it by tropes makes sense! I already know what Star Trek is, so a fanfiction that just says "Kirk, Spock, enemies to lovers" makes sense because I already have the context. Asking someone to pay for an original story by listing a bunch of tropes just doesn't translate. I want to fall in love with the world and the characters and the prose, and if those are done well then having a storytelling device I already like is an added bonus. Not to mention I'm much more likely to enjoy a free fanfiction made for the love of it, regardless of "quality" than a published story that didn't seem to have an editor

[@shebreathesingold8043]

Right, but if tropes-reviews don't work for you, then literally go read reviews in a million other places. it's pretentious to expect tiktok readers who do enjoy trope-reviews to just change to cater to your preferences. And, also, fyi "tropes" work for many genres. Because most genre of books have a set conventions. So, if you're a romance reader, you know the approximate beat breakdown AND happily ever ending part of the book, which is a lot. What's left are characters and tropes. So if reviews tell you you'll get a "bully romance" and that's your thing, that will sell a book faster than giving you a long boring blurb that doesn't even hint at the trope. Again, maybe NOT work for you, but tropes work for millions outside the fanfict context.

[@fortunamajor7239]

​@@shebreathesingold8043 please get offline more, my lord. it is not pretentious to want a normal ass blurb on the back of a book

[@stardoogalaxie9314]

THIS! Fanfic is COMMUNITY, the stories aren't just stories they are creative synthesis and discussion amongst fans that are in the know! Dan Olson mentioned it best in "Lukewarm Defense of 50 shades of Grey" where fanfiction is the ultimate form of playtime, an almost instinctual act of creative synthesis.

[@losermillie]

yes! i don’t go to fanfic because i care about the plot of my favourite tv show (it’s supernatural so i think that’s obvious), i go because i love the characters and/or setting. the biggest fanfic crime to me is unrecognisable characters. but half these romances i read don’t even have characters, they’re all so bland and the same! some are great don’t get me wrong but when i open up your KU author page and see 65 books published in the last 7 years, all with supposedly different characters? i don’t believe you. 😬

[@matejkaaaa]

As a 34yo voracious reader I'm of the opinion that the whole are books turning into fast fashion debate is reinventing sliced bread by a younger generation on the "newest" book platform. We did the same when we lived on blogspot, then on Booktube, we moved to Instagram and now TikTok. Collecting books, binge reading and overbuying books is nothing new. We read one book and drove that genre or trope into the ground, from vampires, to dystopian, from "inventing" new adult to YA high fantasy. This has been going on for over a decade, with peaks and lulls in publishing following the demand. I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying it's nothing new. We just now have insight into what happens on the authors side as social media gives access to authors and pub houses.

[@QueenXKnit]

Exactly 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@chikzdigmohawkz]

I'd say it's been going on for centuries, since the time of the penny dreadfuls. And then there are authors like Charles Dickens - his stories were released in installments, paid by the word, and then rereleased as volumes once complete. It's the whole 'everything old is new again' cycle.

[@inlalaland4]

Agreed!!!

[@kaemincha]

​@@chikzdigmohawkzwas gonna say this same thing! even across cultures like in Japan with the rise of ukiyozoshi and the "pop" novel in the Edo period. there is always some form of media that is considered to be of lower quality.

[@amyward8861]

Fast fashion is destroying our planet with oil use, shipping, and slave labor. I don't think the publishing industry is doing the same thing.

[@cicadathegod8277]

Xiran is the only author on tiktok I trust. They’re transparent, they had an existing following, they’ve been open about how they’ve been treated. I’m so glad I ditched tiktok soon after I came across the book (not related) tiktok is a cesspool of hate, fast fashion, predators, and all around terrible place.

[@vvitch-mist20]

They seem to really enjoy writing.

[@lesaubergines]

Predators?

[@adk7165]

Too bad her book is absolutely shite. The most non-feminist "feminist" book with the worst "polyamory" representation. It reads like it was written by an edgy 14 year old and I genuinely don't get she gets so much credit. She's genuinely obnoxious as a person as well, but oh well.

[@fortunamajor7239]

​@ville__ yes, people preying on children

[@ads605]

For anyone confused some people on tiktok recently thirsted over a 16 yr old boy after he shared the books he likes, and I think that's the predators being referred to Edit: Just realized this was already mentioned in the video lol

[@jessip8654]

I just saw an indie author claim that asking indie writers to use editors for their books was racist, actually, and hundreds of people were vehemently agreeing with her. It's so bizarre.

[@gaerekxenos]

They're pushing it, no doubt. But it isn't 100% without basis. Indie writers don't necessarily have money, so they can't really afford it. They *do* need to have their books proof-read at a minimum though -- but they could always do that themselves after giving it a few days after they've finished writing everything to give it a good read-through to check for comprehensiveness and grammar. It isn't actually racist at all, but due to earning/opportunity differences between races... you can kind of see where they skipped numerous steps and went down the slippery slope for that conclusion. I agree that it is still bizarre and a fairly nonsensical arguement, but I'm... not the least bit surprised that it happens due to how people are =/

[@Zectifin]

@@gaerekxenos gotta cancel everything by oversimplifying everything.

[@AmyMarieJackson]

@@gaerekxenos we gotta put the word 'classism' back into general vocab. not that it would make sense completely if they said classist instead of racist but i feel like some people just say shit so they have a minority to stick up for, and a lot of the time it makes better sense to go to a class narrative rather than race -> class trajectory

[@GaiusGear]

I read Fourth Wing without knowing it was a tiktok book, and I hated that book so much. It was frustrating how little thought was put into the world structure and the " ' BiG tWiSt ' " of the book was transparent and obvious. You could tell that every character was a board of tropes tacked on them with little to make them interesting or nuanced, and there was little carry through and the plot arrived fifteen minutes late with starbucks. There was a whole scene where the MC and her friends stole a map of current troop placements from the MC's mom's office (who is a high ranking genetal) and not only was it never brought up again, it was a gaping hole of an opportunity for the supposedly smart MC to figure out they were being lied to. The romance was also so subpar, but hits Tropes. There's nothing wrong with tropes in stories. But I feel like booktok uses tropes as a bingo card for what makes a 'good' book. But these same people have never actually taken to heart their english class lessons about literary analysis or the construction of a story or, god forbid, learned about consistent character motivations.

[@mollyapteros]

Fourth Wing was the book that finally made me lose any faith I had in 'booktok'. It was so poorly executed and unoriginal, and the way it casually ripped off the iconic Dragonriders of Pern was a crime.

[@QueenErrr]

I just have to point out that "high ranking genetal" is a very funny typo.

[@lostinspace2998]

Are you me? I have been off reading for a bit and wanted to get back into it. I don't use tiktok so I have any experience with that community either. I was interested in Fourth Wing since both the first and second were published and I had some extra time over the holidays. It was on the top of people's lists (including NPRs and B&N). I received Fourth Wing as a gift and I ordered 4 more books to push me to read more in the new year (2 published in 2023 and the other 2 are 2000 and 1982). Here we are, just finished it a day ago and the story beats were (for me) obvious with a romance that was meh. It's frustrating to read the book seeing opportunities missed and characters that lack luster. Just from my experience with Fourth Wing, it has me worried that the newer books will leave me with that same feeling as they got lower reviews. I just have to wait till they get here and see for myself.

[@mec__2121]

yes! i feel like people don’t know good story structure or characterization and refuse to be critical of works that they enjoy. i 100% believe that you can enjoy something that is lower quality (like something made up of tropes) but you should still be able to recognize the faults of the work. social media in general has forced a lot of book advertising to boil it all down to tropes and cool cover art.

[@MochiA24]

@@mec__2121 Agreed! I often give recommendations with the caveat of basically " I enjoyed it, and it was fun. Was it great? No. Good, even..objectively and comparatively no." Lol People can like junk food but that doesn't mean it's good or quality. I think that's what's so frustrating about BookTok is a work is enjoyed by so many but it's not good. And that's okay to an extent but it feels like quality isn't about the classic standards writing has, now it's more is it *insert trope*, is it smutty, etc etc etc.

[@bittersweetsorrows]

Abby Cox has a great video on this topic that goes into the history of 19th century publishing. Cheap, fast, and not always well made books are not a new thing. Since the widespread use of moveable type/the printing press in the western world, literate folks have had access to cheap reading materials such as ballads, broadsides, chapbooks, and (later) penny dreadfuls. Obviously this kind of print history doesn’t address the social media component, but hawkers, ballad singers, and chapmen did act as ye olde influencers try to sell their wares.

[@mandabee8721]

I remember getting really into the Nancy Drew books as a kid in the 90s/early 2000s, and I read all the 1960s series and thought that was it. My mom found a 1980s spin off series of Nancy Drew on eBay that had 124 books in it - when they were originally released by Simon and Schuster, a new book was published every month in this series. They were definitely the 80s equivalent of fast fashion reading and were kind of awful.

[@alexandrahill9176]

I was going to reccomend her video, too!

[@jenn-k-h]

Yes! Came here to say the same thing about Abby's video 🙂

[@bumblewyn]

As a longtime reader the main thing I've noticed is that there are so many books that sound exciting but are terribly written and overall just disappoint. I've started reading samples of everything before I buy it now, because so much trash is being pushed through via TikTok (which I don't use, but it still dominates what books get published) :/

[@foxxxyg]

I do this same thing and probably read 5 samples before I commit to one and finish a book anymore. I also find myself gravitating to Victorian and Gothic novels that I read in college to try and remind myself of what made me like reading in the first place.

[@rumblebees]

Ooooh this, I've seen book recommendations on tiktok that are super hyped and described in a way that I'm interested only to be incredibly disappointed. It only took me twice to be let down before I opted to just get the books on kindle so I'm not wasting money on bad books. Don't even get me started on "stuff your kindle day" trying to find the diamond book in piles of trash.

[@bumblewyn]

@@foxxxyg I almost exclusively get book recommendations from friends and less well-known youtubers now (who aren't on tiktok). I definitely have been having a better time with those books than the "TikTok Made Me Buy It" table at every bookstore nowadays.

[@liz_violet]

there's this website i got bookmarked called recommendmeabook that i use sometimes

[@threemoonscottage1526]

I feel your pain as a fellow long time reader and have had the same experience. I've tried for over 6 years now to find books in genres I love looking for a new author to discover and....it's not there. I usually read the first 5 pages and noticed that the first five would be well written and then the quality would sharply drop, so I wouldn't buy it. But a few years ago I noticed that marketing caught on to my wily ways and now the first 10 are good before the quality drops markedly. And these are books I desperately wanted to like after being recommended them by friends. In full disclosure I'm an author. I've seen both sides of the fence (author side and agent side) and it's a hard job for everyone but the people making the most money. I don't use tiktok--and never will--and it's SO frustrating seeing what gets pushed through because of that social media site.

[@sahie]

Ugh. I’m going to out myself but I am a self-published author. There is a constant pressure to pump out books due to Amazon’s “cliff”. You get a boost in the algorithm for 30 days after a new release. It decreases again at 60 days and you drop off “the cliff” at 90 days. That means you have to release every three months to benefit. You also need a preorder up to promote. I continued writing when my brother died so I could meet these deadlines. I hit 50k words the day he died and it took 18 weeks to write the rest of the book, that meant I was behind on the next book and had to write that faster. Eventually, I inevitably burned out and I lost my last preorder because I just couldn’t write anymore. I have friends making hundreds of thousands of dollars amount pumping out a book every 1-2 months. There’s so much I could say, but I’m tired. 😂

[@srgriffithauthor]

My book fell off the cliff a few months ago and it was sooooo obvious when it happened too

[@vvitch-mist20]

I self-published on Kobo and have made no money lol so far from it. I don't have time to promote it and I'm not spending my time on TikTok when I fucking hate the app. I'll just publish my work and hopefully make something from it. I do have social media and use word of mouth whenever possible, but needing social media is high key the worst.

[@_caramel_8515]

What kind of books do you write? I have so many questions about this process and whether I should go through it

[@vvitch-mist20]

@@_caramel_8515 I write queer adult sci-fi and fantasy. I would say do it. Like you're not going to make money for a while. I published two books by June and I sold only one of them once lol. But publishing with a publisher gets less and less glamours and I would rather die broke then work with people who only care about money.

[@mollyapteros]

I can't see how decent writing of any length could be produced and go through editing and revisions (as well as sensitivity readers if necessary) in a month or two. Not without additional AI/ghost writing at least. This turnaround might explain why so many new books are just objectively awful.

[@Kaeldra3]

I’ve written and read fanfics that take actual years… you can tell when it’s genuinely a passion project out of love… idk the lack of money incentive and the fact that people still write just out of genuine passion says something about the hobby… I don’t know what my point is, I just have so much respect for people who do it just for the love of the content and wish for a few people to scream along with them

[@neonradius]

On the topic of tropeification, I’ve seen a lot of people defend it by saying that it works on ao3 (one of the biggest fanfiction sites). And aside from the obvious argument that we don’t look at fanfiction and original fiction the same way (and I say this as an avid fanfic and original fiction reader), even ao3 has a synopsis! Very few fics have just tags, and the ones that do get way less hits because, surprise surprise, even fanfiction readers who already know what characters they’re reading want more than a few tropes before committing to something. And that’s with free, usually shorter works.

[@swimmyswim417]

Not to mention, on AO3 even with just tags and a minimal summary, usually you’re working with pre-existing characters and general dynamics. In an original work that pre-established foundation isn’t there, so the audience has even less context than for a fanfiction.

[@zeusros]

It's funny when back in time, authors say "I don't think I wrote a suspense novel", but the industry put them in that category. And now you see books be writing to be in a specific category.

[@TwoGems96]

This honestly just feels like how in the anime industry there is a whole slew companies keep adapting the same rpg lightnovels where instead of characters and arcs they have tropes stapled onto character cutouts. And it honestly tracks since most lightnovels are just fan fics of like one of three original light novels

[@Sarah-gz4no]

So its the continued issue of people no longer being able to handle delayed gratification. Waiting for books or movies to come out, was the fun part. You anticipated it, made silly little fanfics to fill the wait time for fellow follwers, and then it was a big deal when the item was finally available.

[@pigeontime751]

As someone who wants to publish a book one day, booktok really makes me reconsider it. My stories are really near and dear to me, and I don’t want people to rush through them just to demand another without savoring the story. Really enjoyed this vid!!!

[@JillyHope91]

Same here! But I also think because my books can be rather long and detailed that booktok might not even like them LOL since they want fast and easy reads. Though it is tragic how books are reduced to tropes these days. Any work, as long as the author puts their heart into it, deserves way more than that.

[@pigeontime751]

@@JillyHope91 exactly!!! I’m so glad I’m not alone in feeling this way. If I put effort into a story, I want readers to care about and savor it for what it is

[@paynehaynes5418]

Don't let it discourage you. Booktok is one small segment of things, while it is having an impact its not the whole industry. As someone who has been self publishing for years, there is always an audience and every author goes at their own speed. The important thing is to write the stories you love, give it the care and attention it deserves with editing and art. People appreciate stories from authors who love what they do.

[@inventedcool1076]

You can’t control how people consume your art. It is something every artist has to accept if they want to do it for a living. People would do that with or without TikTok.

[@blandface9957]

I feel this, I don't want my stories to just be boiled down to their troupes and not even looked at for the actual plot

[@spacegirlfriend42069]

I worked in public libraries for a long time and tbh i think the first whisperings of this issue i noticed were the "trump books" of 2016-2019. They mirrored the 24 hour news cycle in both release schedule and length of time they were relevant. We would order dozens upon dozens of them to fulfil patrons demands, only to have them collecting dust in 3 months. And the push for those books was so intense that some were outed as being heavily fabricated. Those were the bane of my existence at the time

[@alisoncastaldo136]

#1 reason to utilize the library, if you're disappointed with a book, you can return it 😂. Of course, that doesn’t play into the 'need it now' mentality.

[@emcaco]

Maybe it's the privilege of my local library systems being well-funded, but I'm only going off of library (and libby) collections right now and I can hardly keep up!

[@TheOneTheyCallTim]

The amount of crap quality content people consume in general has destroyed the audience's understanding of what quality art/entertainment is. The amount of shows and movies I see everyone enjoy, only to be horrified by the quality of writing, is saddening. All art forms are suffering from the nature of social media, especially TikTok.

[@_weasel]

This. The result of intentionally appealing to the lowest common denominator is, well, slop.

[@PerlaGuastiSoprano]

THIS, I have said this for ages but people always accuse me of being stupid because "if it wasn't good it wouldn't have sold so much". I am a classical musician and, in my free time, I like to write and I have noticed an incredible decrease in quality in both fields. I read and listen a lot in my life due to my profession and let me tell you, the last time I was positively suprised by a novel or a piece of music was at least three years ago.

[@kaiseayaandruis1597]

unrestrained capitalism kills art, any art made with money being a priority will be low quality, bc the only thing that matters is if they can sell it to enough people

[@lilianagonzalez506]

Not only have they been writing grammatically bad, they’re also making their books extremely traumatizing, they add unnecessarily traumatic back stories for SEX books, there are just so many lines being crossed and I’m glad they’re talking about it

[@vvitch-mist20]

They don't realize that more drama doesn't mean better book. This is coming from someone who is all about drama in novels lol. There is a way to do it and not a way to do it.

[@Ultravenom1]

​@@vvitch-mist20 "My Wife's son is my (adoptive) Mother's (hot) father's killer (jk, he's him!) ????"

[@vvitch-mist20]

@@Ultravenom1 And funnily enough there is a market for that book. The problem is this will be labeled a romance and not psychological horror like it's supposed to. Hell I'm sure you can find a horror novel where everyone is very related lol. Like disturbing books have an audience.

[@snipingway]

Haven't books & writers been doing that for forever though?

[@vvitch-mist20]

@@snipingway It's not. Bad, and/or Inexperienced writers do this thing, and I don't know the proper name, where the characters are almost unrealistic in their story. It's easier, for them, to artificially inflate the stakes to keep people invested. Forgetting a payoff has to be given. Cliff hanger endings is common in these books for the same reason, though not to knock the practice since they can be incredibly effective at keeping readers attention when used properly.

[@Rosa-ch2rs]

The ‘selling books on tropes’ thing is probably a thing that came from the fanfiction community. Most fanfic platforms sort by trope and that’s really useful when the reader already has a base knowledge of the characters and universe, so you can go into more specific details. But that just doesn’t work for most books.

[@KelseyHoover]

The seeming ever decreasing quality of self published books has pushed me to specifically seek out traditionally published books when I’m shopping now. And it sucks because as a queer woman, I know people like me tend to not get book deals, and it’s even worse for BIPOC writers. But the self published garbage that was being recommended to me has turned me off for the time being. I think part of the problem too is the monetization of hobbies. Not everything you write needs to be published for profit, but we live in an economy that encourages you to do just that.

[@Elirum]

I’d suggest to go to local bookstores or small publishing companies! They tend to focus on more queer/BIPOC/non traditional authors. And the different publishing companies have different focuses etc, Verso Books is big on philosophy/art/discourse and tend to have a huge selection of things written by queer/BIPOC folks and stuff that genuinely makes you think!!

[@brookgentry1187]

Another huge part of this, that I think you could make a whole video on, is people SELF publishing non fiction books. ANYONE can go to amazon and upload their writing and start selling it. This is incredibly unethical because many of these books contain medical/psychiatric advice. I was gifted one of these books and I am thankful I have a good understanding of how the internet works and how publishing works because the information contained in it could have been extremely harmful if I had not realized it was just a random persons google doc. (It had "sources" but anyone can put anything as a source, doesn't mean any of the information is accurate)

[@ChatterboxFM]

“Did TikTok ruin..” The answer is ALWAYS a resounding YES.

[@robertoXCX]

TikTok is actually pretty great once the app gets a feel for you and you intentionally skip all ads, sponsored, and shop content.

[@msjkramey]

Okay boomer

[@ChatterboxFM]

@@msjkramey 2020 called, THEY WANT THEIR MEME BACK

[@kstrofii]

@@msjkramey There's no way you're still using "Okay boomer" in 2024

[@msjkramey]

@@kstrofii okay boomer

[@letranger4461]

I think Iron Widow is a good study in contrast with the current trope heavy marketing push and why it feels like fast fashion. Xiran did highlight tropes in Iron Widow when promoting it and so did Tik tok. Idk which came first. However, Xiran also had a story to tell and the tropes were just a tool in their writing. More often they promoted the plot and the ways it differs from existing stories and what inspired them to write it. I remember wanting to check it out because Xiran said part of why they wanted to write a story about mechas that require male and female pilots was because it was an interesting idea in Darling in Franxx that they didn’t think was used to its full potential. I also despised the ending of that anime and was annoyed with its female characters by the end so a version where the protagonist is a woman and is fighting to retake control sounded great. The tropes and references add to an existing story and help with the vibe. It’s a fun wink and nod to the audience. But it’s not all there is.

[@swimmyswim417]

Absolutely. I’d been interested in Iron Widow but the thing that pushed me to actually spend my time reading it was Reads With Rachel’s glowing review, specifically her discussing a female main character who’s angry at the world and embodies feminist rage. That kind of catharsis really resonated with me, and I was not disappointed when I actually sat down to read it.

[@louschwick7301]

xiran is also very clearly ... interested, in like, stuff. she doesnt just wanna make content that fits a certain mold of thing that already exists, she has interesting ideas that she wants to bring into reality

[@AlleyDreamer]

No PLEASE talk about repackaging fanfiction 😭 it's insane

[@teenielimz]

Like After 💀

[@Neophoia]

Abby Cox did a great video about this a few months back, as a person who has both written multiple books and had them published via a publishing company and is a fashion historian that has made a lot of videos about fast fashion.

[@angelabarba4367]

I totally agree, Abby's video was very informative.

[@theboringkaren]

Yes! It's a must watch.

[@Jainaivyalice]

I have a friend who published a romance trilogy thru a small traditional press. They didn't do anything to help her promote it. She did a short book tour that she organized and paid for herself then the publishing house that published the books went under and the rights were in limbo for a while. I have other friends who are working on self publishing to have control of the rights and the quality of their own product(cover design etc) and having seen what can go wrong, I understand that. I'm working on a couple shorter things myself that I will probably self publish. There are a lot of factors.

[@shebreathesingold8043]

Right, but trad-published wants to blame this on titkok: " They didn't do anything to help her promote it." No wonder they are a dying industry. Gaslighting people to the extreme to make up for their own lack of faith in the authors they exploit.

[@CASH10K]

Sounds like she may have done it through vanity press and not a traditional publisher. The whole point of a traditional publisher is to market your book. You’re not supposed to spend a dime out of your own pocket. Vanity press makes you pay them to publish/market your novel.

[@cocojamonica]

@@CASH10K this was likely a small traditional press--such presses won't ask you to pay them to publish/market your book, but on the other hand because they're so small, they don't have the budget and staff for marketing. So most small press authors have to do the marketing themselves. Hell, even authors published by the big conglomerates have to do their own marketing these days because publicity departments are increasingly understaffed.

[@PancakeLottie]

I wonder if theres a connection to AO3 as well? These tropes that are carrying these books seem just like theyre AO3 filters. Its like authors are trying to sell books based on meme tags on AO3. "Inappropriate Use of Mage Hand" is a tag not a trope, but "They Were Roommates!" suddenly is a trope, not a tag.

[@34wetstoats]

I think its a combo of a good chunk of fanfic authors just eventually "growing up" and moving onto original fiction and fanfic authors rebranding their work to copyright free ala 50 shades or Love hypothesis.

[@Ari-kp7ut]

Amanda, I’ve been super interested in the whole conversation happening on makeup/skincare TikTok about 10-12 year old girls who purchase very expensive products (ie Drunk Elephant, Dior) that are not meant for such young people to be using. I think you’d make a great vid on this topic! It’s definitely interesting how influencer hype has effected outside of their target demographic.

[@nahtbh]

True !! I'd love to see her talk about this loll

[@bookishlybouv]

Oh boy - I’m one of the voracious 150+ books/year girlies, and I can for sure agree that publishing has made a mess of itself in the past few years. It’s wild to think about how many amazing debuts are out there not getting any marketing dollars, while CoHo’s latest trauma fest hits bestseller lists. At the same time, influencer book lists have just replaced celebrity versions for a lot of people, especially when you relate to the creator. I’m a micro book influencer, and it’s easy to see who gets the marketing dollars from traditional publishing these days, and it’s generally not debuts - even if they’re incredible.

[@localabsurdist6661]

I dislike Tiktok but I have to say no. Why? The publishing industry has always relied on trends. Books like Twilight and Hunger Games made genres like YA paranormal romance and YA dystopian very popular. The publishing industry did its job and published other books like them. The only difference: these books had to come out fast and often lacked proper editing. Therefore these books had much worse quality (especially the YA dystopians). This is something we see today because of the Internet. Most of us were not old enough to think about these publishing trends when those books came out. The only thing that Tiktok changed is that instead of genres becoming big it’s very small subgenres (cozy fantasy, Hockey Romance, etc.) and tropes. Edit: one thing I want to add is that publishers really cut back on editing simply bc they don’t want to pay the people doing it. They don’t edit big name authors like Stephen King or small debut authors anymore. They realized they could make more profit and they did. They don’t have to pay as many editors as they used to. Edit 2: hi! Abby Cox just released a new video about Tiktok and book publishing. She goes into the history of publishing. I highly recommend it!!

[@localabsurdist6661]

Also we literally have a term for “fast fashion books” it’s pulp fiction. Western, crime, romance books that were meant to be cheap and a fast read

[@thejudgingtrash]

⁠@@localabsurdist6661THIS! Pulp fiction is an important term because it’s been a thing for decades and I don’t know why people are upset about it NOW. The huge difference between pulp fiction 20 years ago and now is pulp fiction (romances) are extremely popular on booktok and are being pushed by readers preferring easy to read or niche genres. Huge booktok books would’ve ended up in some sort of bargain bin at the dollar tree 20 years ago and likely wouldn’t have been as successful as they are now. It reeks of misogyny as well. I’m just glad people are reading at all again.

[@denisse454]

Thank you for putting into words how I’ve always felt about spoilers! The spoiler might motivate me into watching/reading something even more. So many people out here channeling River Song

[@danielleoliver1734]

Lack of editing by publishers has been the biggest problem (in my opinion) in publishing in the last 5ish years, now we can add forcing signed authors to self-promote

[@rose846]

Hearing about the issue with Gaelic is wild. For a moment I thought you meant Irish Gaelic due to me mishearing (pronounced differently from Irish Gaelic(“gay-lic”), Scottish Gaelic is pronounced “gah-lick” in English). It’s an easy language to learn and is the only second language I’m even slightly confident in. My great something grandparents were poor Scottish immigrants who only spoke Gaelic when moving to America. I picked it up after I learned the language was dying due to the English committing cultural genocide against the Scot Gaels. So it’s definitely something you have to approach with some amount of empathy for the last few native speakers. You know like the basic amount of empathy it takes to learn the basics of the language. Addendum for anyone who wants to learn some Gaelic: Take Duolingo. Duolingo partnered with the last few native speakers and mono speakers (as in the only language they knew was Gaelic) in order to record their voices to save and revitalize the language.

[@kinrateia]

Do you happen to know whats the scope of it in relation to the series? I never heard anyone even mention it before

[@ofthewilderwoods]

@@kinrateiasome of the fantasy words in the fourth wing series are based on Gaelic words, but some Gaelic speakers were displeased that the words were not accurately spelled or pronounced in the books, warping them to be almost unrecognizable.

[@badbettybooks4001]

Re: people reading a lot of books. I'm in my late 20s with a corporate day job and I read between 150-250 books a year (and have for my entire life except college). No speed reading. Never force myself to read to hit a goal. The ONLY thing I do is not allow screens for myself in the 2 hours before bed. Since I need to find something else to do, I usually end up reading for an hour or so most nights. That's the whole secret - consistency. And it's not a competition- I've never liked the competition aspect to reading numbers. I am not better than someone who read 2 books last year, because I read 270+. Reading is one aspect of my life, and I really enjoy it, but I don't want to suck the fun out of it by making it into a numbers game or turning it into a measure of my worth.

[@mrandisg]

Well said!

[@JoleneBinkley]

As someone who's been reading a lot of "booktok" novels lately, a thing I've noticed is that a lot of them have a similar writing style or "voice" and it's really obvious. I see these books as a kind of fast food in the sense that I know I'm consuming garbage that all kind of tastes the same ... but it's fun garbage lol. They're fun little breaks in between the better written, more "nutritious" books. Am I saying that's a good thing? IDK. I think just like fast food, they have a place in your diet as long as that's not all you're consuming.

[@shebreathesingold8043]

IDK, it says a lot that the "good books" you don't feel are "fun little breaks". Books shouldn't be chores or work. If the "fun books" that make you forget life are the "bad books" then good books have royally fucked up.

[@JoleneBinkley]

@@shebreathesingold8043 Oh, I definitely don't think good books are chores. Sticking with the food analogy, good books are like fine dinning luxury meals. But sometimes you just wanna consume trash, ya know?

[@NotSmartPeppa]

Several months late but I think a better analogy is fast food vs. homecooked. If you know how to cook, homecooked meals always taste better than fast food, but sometimes you don't have the energy or motivation to wait 30 minutes to multiple hours for food to cook, so you just order fast food to satisfy your hunger. In the same way, most good authors take a lot longer to write and publish books. If you are anxious to read, you would probably go read oversaturated booktok books to pass the time until your favorite author finally releases another book

[@Nico_sno]

This is a really big issues right now especially in fantasy & with kindle unlimited. I’ve noticed a trend in self published kindle books of people starting patreons, pushing out 1 or 2 chapters a week, advertising it as a “early-access perk” for being a patreon when in reality these authors are using their patrons as amature crowdsourced editors, and then pushing out a “final product” that’s a rough draft at best being sold on the kindle store. And these authors are pushing out 600-1000 page books at least once a year

[@Starburst514]

I think (also just started the video now sure if Amanda says this) marketing books like fanfiction tags isn't a "bad" thing on its own...like "Enemies to lovers" "hurt/comfort" "grumpy-sunshine" etc. To me that is just more of a type of marketing. It can work to someone's advantage like anything else; but what happens is what Amanda said, where the book is pitchedbon something that is barely an actual element of it. SO MANY Books from booktok have been advertised as "enemies to lovers" but that translates to "they're mean to each other for thirty pages then start boning" And some tropes lose it if they are announced. Like Maria from the Unresolved Textual Tension podcast mentioned how if you go into a book knowing its slow burn, then the tension from the slow burn is already gone. Part od the anticipation of slow burn is seeing it unfold, so when you start a book expecting it to be a slow burn romance between two characters some of the "how will the relationship develop" is taken out, and the chemistry isn't as organic That's not a hard rule, of course, but for me it's true, the best slow burn has happened over time where I didn't know it was slow burn until it was burning

[@SS-xr7jf]

The tropes aren’t bad… the books being bad are bad. Also some tags are useful. I have a friend who HATES love triangles. A tag is good for avoiding it without spoiling.

[@Starburst514]

@@SS-xr7jf full agree

[@waywardbookworm]

Author here. I’m in a lot of author groups online, so I see a lot of discussions around how books are written and marketed from the inside. Basically, profitable writing nowadays revolves around grinding out 3-4 shorter books at a time and releasing the whole series within 6 months because a lot of authors think that’s the only way to hold readers’ attention. I’m releasing book#2 in my new series about a year after book#1 came out, and almost everyone in the community views that as impossibly slow.

[@kazu9445]

I think it's easy to look deep into something that really can be a lot simpler. I saw a video of someone with ROOMS of shelves of NEW books - a lot of them hardback - like I'm talking at least five hundred; that is what we mean when we say booktok is becoming like fast fashion. I can't speak for the publishing side, but prominently the consumer side, it is getting to the point where people are buying and keeping books in the hundreds all over their house - likely that they will never read. It's harmful to your financial situation and mentality. I have a strategy of keeping any book I really like/have written in, but otherwise, if I've read it and know i'm not going to read it again anytime soon, I give it away. But the main point I want to make here is: don't get stressed out by reading goals and buying physical copies and all of that shit. New books are expensive! If you can, go on World of Books as they do really cheap, second hand novels! Don't be picky and snobby about the quality of the book, they're never absolutely unreadable from my experience, and a broken spine just means it's well loved! Stop this over materialism.

[@JamesLawner]

Sometimes ebooks are cheaper than physical ones too, esp when there’s a sale.

[@Helen-mi8pb]

Also libraries! I tend to buy books that I first read a borrowed copy of when I know I adore them and want to keep forever in order to display and reread

[@emcaco]

Getting back into the library has for sure saved my personal finances from kickstarter and comic shops. I like supporting those things, but that kind of shopping was really unsustainable for me

[@ahmadjcharles]

Here in my garage, just got these 7 new bookshelves installed to hold 2,000 new books that I bought.

[@kazu9445]

@@ahmadjcharles materialism but you do you 🫶

[@mdsagould]

I hate in when book bloggers reduce a book to its tropes. And I’m sick of being spoiled. I don’t want to know it’s an “enemies to lovers”- let me experience it!

[@katgreer6113]

Right

[@Morrigan_le_fey]

I think a lot of people would be happier and the system would work better if people stopped trying to file off serial numbers and sell physical books, and they just wrote the damn fanfiction they clearly wanted to write or read in the first place. Edit: this has been interesting, but I’d love to see an interview between Amanda and someone actually involved in the traditional publishing industry, like an agent maybe. The publishing industry is massive and opaque, so I think there is a lot that someone with in depth knowledge would be able to contribute here. It would be interesting to know what effect booktok has had in the non-booktok market, and to what extent this effect has been building for a while (ex: James Patterson)

[@TheSlick447]

Thanks for this video Swell! As a librarian who doesn't do TikTok, its nice to know what's happening in BookTok. As a general rule of thumb, I put almost zero self-published books on my shelves. Occasionally there will be one where the quality is there, but more often than not, self-publishing is such a mixed bag of mostly sub-par books.

[@erincantdrum]

As someone who used to read a lot, but only really reads now when I get the chance, I find the reading experience far more peaceful when I pick up a book without interacting with any book related content online. I can have a solitary or small group (with friends) experience, no pressure, no expectations

[@wolfwatch9731]

on reading goals, there are some people who will give “advice” on how to reach your reading goal, and some of it is just like “read more graphic novels / manga” or “read more middle grade” but then some of it is like “start skimming or skipping long paragraphs in order to finish faster”. that, combined with the people who have 100+ unread books and yet still keep buying more… certain corners of booktok / booktube have created this culture where it’s more about being perceived as a voracious reader than it’s about actually reading / actually enjoying reading

[@redred7702]

Look at any piece of “traditional” media, such as books, TV, and films, and 80% of them feel like they’ve been churned out by 58 year old corporate business people. Fantasy and sci-fi especially have been hit with the same copy and paste storylines with the same protagonists, the same plot progression, and the same resolution. It’s as if creative storytelling has been thrown out the window in favour of tropes and ONLY tropes.

[@kaiseayaandruis1597]

bc it's all for profit, any risk, any change to what was proven to already work is something the people producing the media do now want to do, why take any risks when the same recycled slop keeps paying?

[@Zectifin]

booktok is gross

[@FTZPLTC]

I think the best point here is that there's this real trend towards publishers of media - not just books - trying to hide the poor quality of their output through excessive social media marketing - the cynical intent likely being to get as many sales in early on before the first wave of word-of-mouth responses... because they assume that those responses are going to be bad and that sales will drop off as a result. Saturation hype feels like a very intentional tactic, because I think most people know that, if you have a really *good* product, you probably won't want to pester people until they're sick of hearing about it.

[@AprilsMoon92]

I wanted to traditionally publish my books but now that publishing companies want you to do all the marketing yourself I might as well self publish.

[@aqua0622]

I’ve never been so early! I was waiting for a booktok/publishing vid

[@justletmesleep_]

The KZbinr Abby Cox did a really good video about how publishing has always been fast paced, from a historical standpoint, and I think it's a great and important video to watch among the current 'is it fast fashion' opinion pieces floating around

[@catnumber6967]

Every day I am more glad that I never downloaded TikTok. Anyway for book recs in the spirit of things, my favorite read of 2023 was The Recognitions by William Gaddis, which is the opposite of tiktokified literature. It did not do well upon its release in the 1950s but slowly gained a following & *recognition* as one of the great American novels. It is nearly 1000 pages long, chock full of subtle (and not so subtle) literary references, & infamously difficult to read. Plus one of the (many) themes is the commoditization of art & religion which makes it incredibly relevant both to our modern world & this particular discussion

[@The__Creeper]

I noticed this before Tiktok was a thing. People have been writing books now expecting it to be a franchise right out of the gate and it's weird to see a new book with a 1 at the end of the title. It really turns me off from wanting to read it knowing that these people write it expecting it to be a never ending series.

[@gaerekxenos]

I think it can work, but only if it's been planned out carefully already. In a number of cases... it generally won't. The cases that can work would have had specific reasons as to why the book needed to be divided into separate parts from the get-go instead of being one complete volume. And they'd only know that since they've already planned out the entire series from the get-go and know how many volumes they would need from the start rather than decide to wing it over several volumes and arbitrarily come to a close There's actually a book that I've been wanting to read for years that started off as a Trilogy, and when I started reading... they only had the first book published. I haven't read the final book yet since I hadn't visited the library since, so it's going to be a pain for me to find again since I don't even remember the book title from back then =-=l| I do remember the general synopsis of the two volumes though

[@The__Creeper]

@@gaerekxenos I'm not saying it doesn't work, I love many books part of long running series, I'm just saying that if I see a 1 at the end of a title, I sigh and my eyes glaze over. At least use a different title for each book, it's all I'm asking for. Don't treat books like episodes of a TV show.

[@LPSRosyYT]

And this is why I read fanfiction. I mean some of the fics I have read are literally masterpieces.

[@icymaya217]

Great video. I recently got kindle unlimited and have been so disappointed at the selection of books and the books I’m recommended. They’re all the same trope-y romance novels and I can’t stand it

[@piagebot2943]

I’m trying to get through fourth wing cuz it was a Christmas present from my mom even though i don’t really read these kinds of books and it is such a drag omg. The only enjoyable thing is laughing at the fanfic-esque language used throughout the book. I’m gonna donate it to my library after I’m done

[@mrandisg]

I would just go ahead and donate it, then if your mom asks about it, claim that you "lost" it lol. Or just tell her the truth, that's really the better option. There are too many good books in the world to waste your time on the bad ones. I don't remember where I got that thought, but it's become my opinion.

[@piagebot2943]

@@mrandisg I wanted to give it a chance cuz I heard it was so popular, but I’m just not a fan of smut in my books. I dont mind some romance or eluding to explicit scenes, but like this is just too much for me. The second a man was being written about all of a sudden its a godlike statuesque man like stfu r u kidding me

[@ViolaVines]

The fast fashion conversations in my circles was the cheap quality/ misprinting of iron flame. I didn’t hear it mentioned in relationship to self pub but that’s interesting. I just feel like traditional publishing wanted to convert the loyal fandoms of fanfic & rapid release schedules of indie books into dollars for themselves. I think there have always been bad books, but now bad books get more publicity thanks to social media. I don’t want to fully trash self-pub books because the reality is minority authors are hugely underrepresented/can’t get their foot in the door even when they’re great. Most minority groups make up less than 10% of all published books. All that said I don’t think it’s booktok but publishing wanting to exploit it and booktok readers falling for it due to the hype. It feels like a symbiotic relationship versus one side fully to blame.

[@abbysnofun]

i also think another thing that’s adding that’s adding to it is that so many people essentially refuse to read any book that came out more than 10 years ago. obviously there are some older books that people are recommending but not on the scale that people are recommending new releases

[@FigmentForever]

This to me is absolutely absurd. The best books I’ve ever read all seem to be from pre 2010, while the newer stuff falls so flat or is almost cookie-cutter level bland

[@madisonb5171]

Amanda, I love all of your videos, but more than anything I'm currently thrilled on all the book vids. Considering reading and books are a special interest of mine, and I'm deeply invested in the booktok drama I'm just always happy to hear your thoughts on books, publishing, the industry as a whole and especially on booktok and book group on social media! It's so fun! Thank you! 💖

[@CC-qx7hk]

Normalize shit talking people buying from Shein and Temu 👏

[@unproductivebestie]

This actually reminds me of Kpop albums. Where fans preorder copies of a k-pop groups album (and sometimes multiple versions and copies of the album) without knowing what the cover looks like or even hearing a sound bite. But because its coming from their favorite group they just purchase. They might also buy different versions because the albums come with photocards of different members of the group and they might want different photocards so they buy multiple albums. I always looked at situations like this from a far though because I don't collect photocards or buy physical albums.

[@SS-xr7jf]

Wait an example of the harm being caused…. Is someone not actually being able to pronounce Gaelic words that were used in the book? Are you kidding me?? Do people honestly think that sort of stuff didn’t happen before TikTok???

[@katgreer6113]

ikr....

[@opheliapurple]

Yeah comparing this to fast fashion is dramatic imo. The books are being read and enjoyed and collected and worst case scenario- a book is sloppy. So don’t buy it. There isn’t a landfill of books made by enslaved children, this isn’t SHEIN.

[@SS-xr7jf]

@@opheliapurple also books aren’t made of polyester and nylon . So even when they are over produced they don’t sit in a land fill for 100 years.

[@aboutrainbow8614]

I love that you talk about stuff in the publishing market. It's my dream to get traditionally published- I'm on the 4th draft of my novel now- and witnessing the market I'll have to master to be successful is daunting as hell...and, also, as of late, upsetting. I don't know how to describe it, but seeing books go above and beyond in popularity only to buy them and find their plot is about as durable as pasta is deeply discouraging. I read these books and i recognize the patterns- they are almost all first drafts. first drafts are never good. Never ever. The second one is ALWAYS better, and it hurts that authors aren't getting the chance to refine their work like that anymore. All you need is a few good taglines to hook people in, even if the substance doesn't back up the hype in the slightest. It worries me because my stories don't have those taglines. It's super difficult to balance the marketing half of publishing and it feels like I'm already failing even though I've barely started. Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I've yet to fully contextualize my emotions into words, haha.

[@FTZPLTC]

Gotta say, it's totally feasible to get through 100 books in a year, especially if you're allowing audiobooks. Most of my "reading" involves listening to audiobooks while I'm working, and I could get through a book every couple of days on that alone. I don't, but I could.

[@FigmentForever]

Thanks to a certain audiobook bay, I’ve been able to get through at least 300 audiobooks since 2020. However, most of them are of the older variety that I never got around to. I just simply don’t have time to sit & read a book, especially with severe astigmatism/far-sightedness/etc. Friends of mine are so into books that it’s become toxic if you don’t read the series they adore.

[@deanofthequeer]

When I was in the 5th grade, there was a chart on the wall that the teacher used to track the books we read. The chart had something like 15 slots to fill. I filled it (and more) by Christmas (all novels of some kind). I tell this story bc just like folks say "how can you possibly read that many books" to tiktokers, so did my classmates. People cannot fathom the free time sad people have, regardless of age.

[@littlejourneyseverywhere]

As someone who's had four books self published now, one a single and the rest a trilogy, I feel like there's always been the sort of open disdain for self publishing as if the works are lesser. I chose self-publishing because at the time I started writing things other than fanfiction, I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and during the start of my trilogy, I was in the middle of a very difficult pregnancy that I had to be on bed rest for. Basically I didn't want the extra stress. XD my books still went through a ghost reader and editor though and for the last two of the trilogy I used a program which, while I know isn't perfect I read and reread over my manuscript to make sure that it was as error-free as possible. Not making sure your book is properly edited before you hit the big publish button is just lazy authoring. I still write fanfiction today and I still write originals too. I don't look at one as being any better or worse than the other just because I can make money off of one. I just want people to read and enjoy my work. ❤

[@KawaiiCat2]

I totally agree and I m so happy you pointed this out! I started reading a book, that when I read the synopsis, looked so good! Then I started reading the book and I couldn’t get past the prologue. The story starts out where the character has to rescue this girl who is dying in a village that has been attacked by war. Every horrifying detail or strong emotion was described by the f word. Like he felt so f ing this or that…. I cringed so much I don’t think I can finish this book and I always finish a book everytime I start it! The story is so good and so is the idea but the writing is just not there and descriptive enough. So much cringe. Thanks for shining a light on this!

[@XenonTetrafluoride]

I have to admit that after the video you made on Ice Planet Barbarians (Thank you for that video btw - I found my niche weird kink books and oh my god, there’s *how* many sequels? I’m going to be reading this for years 🎉), I bought the first book, because it was my thing. And it’s well-written, despite being self-published. THAT is where books should be if people want to self publish. …they can leave out the blue aliens if they must, but yeah, good god guys, find a beta reader. Find 12 beta readers, even, you want this baby polished before you put it out there. ------ Regarding how many books a person can read , it’s a dumb metric. As I’m hyperlexic, I’ve read many, many, many books in my childhood. However, since childhood, I’ve had to deal with a multitude of things that slow me down, bookwise: 1. I’m blind in my left eye, and have been since age 6. So, between learning to read at 2, and 6, I had 2 eyes to help me speed through my bunches and bunches of books, and then had to learn how to read without trying to use my left eye - there was a lot of patching of the left, so that my smooth childhood brain could pull a neuroplasticity. 2. No one really gives a flying piggle about making their books/games/mobile OSes not have itty bitty print. Like, I love holding a real book and reading it that way. But if we’re just going to make it unreadable… And not everything is on Audible, sadly. You try to find medical textbooks that someone wants to read to me, and I’ll listen. 3. Eye. Strain. Is a real problem.

[@bellarivea]

Hey Amanda! I absolutely love your videos and watch pretty much all of them (At least up until 1-2 years ago). I cannot tell you how much I was waiting for you to do this video. I am an aspiring author currently editing my debut novel and so I can also see all the problems with Booktok. My choice for going self-publishing is because I have heard a lot of horror stories from other authors about the tradpub world (Authors getting signed because their book is similar to a current popular one and the publisher doesn't want competition, people being signed just to sit there and not make any moves towards publishing for whatever reason, or they get signed and assigned to a project by the publisher that isn't their own idea.) The only reason I would have gone tradpub was if they would market for me, but they only put money into marketing for the books that have already been selling (most of the time). I honestly didn't see any benefits with tradpub especially since I wouldn't get to choose my book's title, cover, and even editing style (because 90% of the time they make all those choices for you). And to end my speech, I agree that TikTok and social media in general has turned the publishing industry into fast fashion.

[@irkalla100]

Never thought I'd say this, but my am I happy I stopped pursuing being an author before TikTok was a thing.

[@soogymoogi]

Same. I'll stick to writing fanfic, at least that takes the publisher out of it

[@cathygraham8164]

I am one of the people who has read 200 books and have recieved hate online due to it. The reasons ive read that much is because its escapism for me, I have a job that has a lot of downtime so i can read at work (12 hour shifts), i started listening to audiobooks as well this year and that made up about 35 books, i read novellas that i count towards my target that are under 100 words and that made up about 40 books. But im proud of myself to have reached that goal and me talking about that does not mean im boasting or that im lying. Im just proud of nyself. Thank you for talking about this xx

[@cayleybaker1308]

8 minutes in and I just wanted to share this quote by the great Ursula Le Guin “I think hard times are coming, when we will be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now, and can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies, to other ways of being. And even imagine some real grounds for hope. We will need writers who can remember freedom: poets, visionaries-the realists of a larger reality. Right now, I think we need writers who know the difference between production of a market commodity and the practice of an art. The profit motive is often in conflict with the aims of art. We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable; so did the divine right of kings. … Power can be resisted and changed by human beings; resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art-the art of words. I’ve had a long career and a good one, in good company, and here, at the end of it, I really don’t want to watch American literature get sold down the river. … The name of our beautiful reward is not profit. Its name is freedom.”

[@AmbersDaintyThrowBlanket]

👏🏻

[@koncept_kiwi]

1000% this. It feels like reading has become 'tiktokified' in the sense that you finish one book and immediately move onto the next book, like how vids are consumed on tiktok.

[@kat_fay]

I actually just watched a video by Abby Cox about this exact topic. It was really fascinating and really showed that publishing has always been this way, we are just seeing it in a different perspective than usual.

[@kat_fay]

Sorry, one more thought that might not be…..the general opinion. If you are developing a fantasy book, in a fantasy realm and you use a spelling that is in our real world pronounced one way…but in your fantasy world means another. Is that wrong? Because you are not actually referencing the actual word.

[@tesscovello9820]

The amount of times I bought a book I thought I'd like because tik tok said it was good is so annoying. Now, if tik tok likes it, I avoid it at all costs.

[@nathane1839]

Right when this video started, I was waiting to see if you would mention Chelsea Fagan, and you did! I think a great future video would be an interview you conduct with her based on her thoughts of book tok and her experiences with traditional and self publishing, considering she self published physical copies of A Perfect Vintage

[@CDRachelsauthorofMMroman-ee4ci]

i'm also a self-published author who came from teh 2020 lockdown book binge times. it ain't easy and i ain't making money. in defense of tropes, we can't put the blurb on one instagram post. we're trying to look catchy and then hook you with the synopsis. hopefully people don't regret reading/buying my romances :(

[@workinprogress3329]

“Life sucks. This is all I have” I feel that so much 😂

[@TheQndi]

Since Unresolved Textual Tension IS my favorite podcast it has made me very happy to see their clips ❤❤❤

[@elizabuga4337]

I feel like the Iron Flame thing with her not being able to pronounce Gaelic isn’t that bad, honestly. Plenty of American-born Chinese (ABCs) don’t speak Chinese properly or pronounce things with the proper tones, but they can write great stories with Chinese tropes. There are plenty of historians who study Rome who can’t pronounce Latin properly, etc..

[@duckydae]

the issue is more she’s conflating two different languages with no links to it herself. the gaelic language isn’t an aesthetic you can just tack on and people who have read the book felt it was generally unimportant. also, unlike the chinese language, gaelic is a dying language and the last thing it needs is an american misinforming people on it. scotland unfortunately has outlander, could live without another non-native author treating scotland as a, farcical backdrop rooted in “history”. not to mention it’s also a language with a delicate history with the reason it is no longer spoken being rather unpleasant and the damage the english did to the scottish identity still exists today in our language.

[@aksez2u]

Not to mention people who are well-read, but whose vocabulary hasn't been tested much in the real world and who mispronounce words like 'Hyperbole' or 'Segue' because they've only heard them in their head. 😆

[@soogymoogi]

​@@duckydaei feel like it depends on if she was being tutored, like she sais she was, trying and still flubbed it, or if she didn't bother to look anything up. Languages w diff sounds can be hard to learn to wrap your... mouth around even if you know how they /should/ be said Imo i think it depends on if she got the tutor before her book blew up or after

[@elizabuga4337]

@@duckydae I see where you're coming from! People have different levels of emotional attachment to a language based on erasure. Native Irish comes to mind, as well as Taiwanese. Thanks for giving me your perspective. I do think it is possible for someone who is an adopter of a language or culture to become an expert eventually, but yes I see the problem with someone who is newly minted causing problems or spreading misinformation without "earning her stripes," as it were.

[@nicodoe6181]

you very clearly dont know what youre talking about lmao, referencing both "gaelic" and... "native irish"? gaelic is not a language, its a group of languages (which includes scottish gaelic and irish). "native irish" just... isnt a thing. that term has never been used by anyone to describe the irish language ever lmao. some (presumably) white american woman using random gaelic words without actually knowing what they mean or how to say them because she thinks they sound like some mystical fairy bs from a quaint little undeveloped bog or whatever is not at all comparable to someone who was likely brought up on chinese stories using those tropes in their own writing. i seriously cant even figure out how anyone would make such a nonsensical comparison

[@ellebee5113]

My biggest problem is the lack of understanding of the publishing industry, the impact social media has had in the industry, and the article using the argument of fast fashion in comparison to booktok but mainly talking about Rebecca’s fumbling of usage and pronunciation in her series. I think you hit good points on the social media front, another KZbinr Abby Cox made a video talking about this article, and how this isn’t a new trend within the publishing industry and goes over much needed context of publishers history, her experience with the industry, and the comparison of fast fashion in relation to books. While it still may be a problem about quantity over quality I don’t think Rebecca Yarrows or any other booktok authors or series is to blame.

[@roxymews8130]

I would love for you to talk to some of the self pub authors who have been doing fast production of romance for over a decade. One of the most well-spoken/successful people I have heard present on this, is Jayne Rylon. I met her through a small publisher we were both signed to. She is an incredible business woman. I heard her present on the publishing world a few times, and she has an incredible amount of insight. Not sure where she is on the circuit now. ( I dropped out of the scene to care for my parents. ) But she would be a fantastic person to talk to.

[@charlottesinclair9354]

I've worked in a bookstore for the past 7 years and it has been interesting seeing the shift. One factor though for me is that I live in New Zealand. It takes 4-5 weeks for books we order to arrive, so booktok hasn't quite taken over in the same way because by the time the books arrive the trend is over. We often get lots of requests though for books that haven't been released here though, since people don't understand that the way the publishing industry works means books can be released up to 12 months apart around the world.

[@neutrinobuddy]

Happy New Year Ms. Entertainment! Looking forward to another year of mildly unhinged content 🎉

[@thomasrdiehl]

Gotta be honest, I almost stopped shortly after the thing about Gaelic came up. Let me tell you as a non-American: Americans can't pronounce anything correctly. Sometimes to the point where I wonder if they at least can pronounce English correctly (according to the English, who invented the language, the can't). I mean, should we make a list of books and stories set at Loch Ness with nobody involved able to say "loch" correctly? This is nothing to have a fit about, being able to pronounce stuff is not at all important to anything unless it's poetry or a pun or otherwise actively involves how words sounds. As for the rest: This is not new to Tiktok/Instagram etc. Books have always been sold that way. What do you think why there is so much money put into cover art? This is a complaint that says to me: Somebody either has never experienced or forgotten how book marketing worked before that. All of this and most of the other stuff is how publishing has been operating for at least 50 years now.

[@kkuudandere]

The hype certainly hit my old job's book club hard lol. I read fourth wing after everyone already finished it and said I just HAD to read it (I haven't finished it. I find it really predictable but it's still fun). Then they already decided we just HAD to read iron wing immediately after, without even casting a vote. I just left that job so I'm not in the book club, but dang I hope they weren't too disappointed by iron wing. They were so excited to read it🙁

[@DLH112]

I had no idea about any of this but I didn't realize you were probably talking about 'booktok' and not some generic group 'book talk' until there was only like 3 or 4 minuites left in the video.

[@briteskin]

Number of my friends who are published authors have turned to Substack and other subscription routes. Publishing for years and years now have been leaning towards trends. Just about everyone was asked to try young adult, write at least 3 book epics rather than standalones, and on and on with whatever is popular in publishing at the time. It is kind of like the music route for many artists today. They are take on the expense with writing chapters or short stories rather than singles and once they have a full book/anthology/recorded album sell the rights to be published.

[@DracoTriste]

I figured you were writing when I watched your video in the GoodReads scandal. Your approach was clearly coming from the inside. I do want to clarify one point in this video. Vanity publishing is one method of self publishing, not a synonym for self publishing. Vanity publishing charges authors a hefty fee to essentially cosplay as an indie author. It’s often a scam that takes advantage of inexperienced authors who don’t yet know how to navigate legal contracts, copyright, and the industry in general.

[@mejirobird2175]

Tiktok made everyone forget that public libraries exist

[@TheArtfulBrittani]

The other problem to this discussion is the rise of "special editions" and FOMO of getting the "pretty" book with sprayed edges and fancy art but alot of the companies that sell these choose badly written books or debut authors that need a little more writing under their belt before they get a fancy style book.

[@nickoffury]

Tik Tok has completely fried people’s brains. It’s got people out here storming stores to get a cup, everyone self diagnoses themselves with adhd and autism after watching two Tik toks and it’s turned everyone into sheep. Not to mention how people are starting to say ‘unalive’ outside of Tik Tok comment sections and it’s driving me nuts 😂

[@CatHerderCam]

You know, you had me thinking I am part of the problem for the first 5 mins. But then you mentioned books should have Beta readers, and I felt better since I am a Beta Listener for an audiobook publisher. 😅