Did Tim Keller's LGBT Response Backfire? | Pastor Reacts

[@marcosmccoy3734]

Jackie Hill says the exact same thing. Her being lesbian was a leaf on the tree full of other sins, the root cause was her choice not to submit to God

[@Toadzx]

My problem with Kellers response is he said 'sin doesn't send you to hell, not knowing you need a savior sends you to hell', and I'm like then why do I need a savior? It's just circular reasoning.

[@patrickc3419]

He would intentionally muddy the waters by his talking in riddles with any questions posed to him. Fellow false teacher CS Lewis would often do the same thing.

[@Toadzx]

@@patrickc3419 You lost me at calling C.S. Lewis a false teacher.

[@patrickc3419]

@@Toadzx That’s fine. But yes, correct; a false teacher. Just food for thought, Lewis: -Believed in evolution (like Keller). -Believed Adam & Eve were allegorical. -Believed salvation could be lost. -Believed in purgatory. He was a writer & a literary critic. He was not a pastor or a theologian.

[@azophi]

Well .. yeah. “You need to be saved from what I’m about to do to you if you don’t follow all my rules! “

[@patrickc3419]

@@azophi You can’t be saved from “following all my rules”. See Galatians 2:21.

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

"An unwillingness to submit to the authority of God" 👏👏👏👏

[@pamelajewell2879]

Sin separates us from God.

[@kencress3665]

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, the human heart is deceptively Wicked, thank you Lord for your mercy and Grace all praise to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

[@patrickc3419]

@@kencress3665 Amen and 5 Solas from Buffalo.

[@jawdroppingbeautybyjulie61]

Amen. When I am tied up in social media, focusing on material things, idolizing the world instead of Him, I can’t bring myself to read my Bible or pray. I am ashamed and know my focus is not on Him. God will not draw near if our hearts are somewhere else. Spending time in His word and in prayer daily; leaning on the Holy Spirit will help us grow in our relationship to Christ. Living a lifestyle of perpetual sin and denying the sin, causes God’s spirit to flee.

[@jamiejay7633]

Homosexuality is a mortal sin and is perverting our whole society and children. It's from hell.

[@robb6059]

And so long one will be sinful, he will not be able to understand what is God. Śrīla Prabhupāda

[@blindfaith1239]

My answer to a lesbian couple was that any sexual act outside a marriage between one man and one woman for one lifetime was a sin, regardless of whether it was straight, queer, or fantasy

[@jackiewheeler9202]

What a great point to make. This video definitely got me thinking how to approach this topic differently. Thank you.

[@UNKLEnic]

Hey Nate! Unkle Nic here. I love this response and have used it myself. Greed today is way more rampant than homosexuality here in the states. Hollywood and Beverly Hills only 10 miles away from skid row is a great example of our greed. Or knowing that it is a fact that we rather buy useless junk on amazon instead of buying someone who is starving a meal. I only find it ironic that we point out homosexuality and not greed when greed is brought up much more in the bible. Its because we here in the states are all guilty of it and love to point the finger. Now, I address the homosexuality issue like this. Is homosexuality love or lust? Mike Winger did a 4 part 3 hours each long video each on this topic and funny enough, the good stuff is at the very end of the 4th video. He simply states scientific studies and statistics from the CDC.GOV that shows the diseases and the much higher rate of STD, AIDs, mokeypox, literally 100s of different types. Not only that, but anal cancer that shows this is just not a healthy act. Without going into detail well know what 2 body types needed for these acts one of which is extremely sensitive and one that is far from sanitary

[@conceptualclarity]

Greed is spoken of in the Bible more often not because the Bible regards greed as being as reprehensible as homosexuality. Rather the reason is because greed is a vastly more common sin than homosexuality. The number of people who need to be rebuked for greed greatly outnumbered those who need to be rebuked for homosexuality. Skid Row is not caused by the spending habits of people who have jobs. It is caused by the proliferation of drug culture which has been something that the progressive elite has been promoting rather than opposing. I am a person in poverty and I am able to eat because instead of descending into a pit of substance abuse I eschew drugs and alcohol and work for a living.

[@discerningx3375]

So glad I found you. You phrase things so clearly and cleanly. It resonates nearly perfectly with my understanding. You're giving me words to describe how I think and believe.

[@jsmithartwork89]

Very well thought out. I really like how you expand on his narrative. Too many times we assume we know what the person is asking. It could really make a difference if we listen first.

[@loum.2864]

I think that the problem that we encounter as Christians is that we tend to evangelize those in the LGBTQ community differently than we evangelize others who are in a sinful lifestyle. When I engage in these types of conversations with a member of the LGBTQ community, I try to point them to the 10 Commandments and away from their lifestyle choices. I do this because whether heterosexual, homosexual, queer, transgender, etc, the 10 Commandments of God points us all, heterosexual and homosexual, to our sinfulness and need for a Savior. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are not the standard. God’s 10 Commandments are the standard. The 10 Commandments are the common ground all humans fall short of fulfilling. We have all lied, coveted, stolen, not honored our parents, and have not loved God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength. When I ask anyone if they have met the standard of the 10 Commandments perfectly, everyone admits that they don't. Then I mention that Jesus not only died for us, but Jesus also lived a sinless life for us. Jesus fulfilled the law of God, and now his perfect righteousness can be imputed/credited to all who place their faith in his sinless righteousness alone for access to a holy God. Again, we must remember that the 10 Commandments reveal where we fall short and why we desperately need God's grace and mercy. Keeping the focus on God's moral law can help us avoid the trap questions that many living sinful lifestyles frame their questions with and helps us keep the focus on declaring the gospel. I was once one of those who threw out these types of questions to make Christians feel guilty and unloving. I am truly saved by grace alone, through Christ alone.

[@imm311]

Excellent point!

[@Chey60]

The issue is no one is homosexual. No one is an adulterer etc the sin is what makes you such.. No reason to make a distinction between homosexual people and hetero when God created us to be with the opposite sex unless we don’t desire anyone at all.

[@boicejr8380]

I am a little confused because it seemed like Keller said we don't go to hell for rejecting Christ but for our sin, but then when asked will an individual go to hell for Homosexuality (SIN) it seems that he says no we will go to hell for rejecting Christ.

[@yndsu]

Top me it is pretty clear that TK says exactly that, that you go to hell because you reject Jesus. He says that it is not your sin that sends you in hell, but your self-reliance, which is rejection of Jesus, and the salvation he offers freely to all.

[@FIRE0KING]

Well, there is an unforgivable sin. The rejection of Christ. The rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit. It's a wash really. It's the other side of the same coin. Rejection of Christ IS turning to sin. Choosing Christ IS turning from sin.

[@terirodriguez1363]

1cor 6: 9-20…. pretty straight forward. if youre really born again, a new creation……. you dont enjoy your sin and want to change… sin no longer is delicious. your miserable in it

[@TorqueBow]

I have to admit, my understandings of some of these ideas was rocked a little bit with this video. I have to pray and meditate on this ideas and look a bit inward on this. Thank you, God Bless.

[@spiritandtruth4716]

The problem the Christian church has with homosexuality is not with the individuals, it is with the movement that is seeking to redefine sin in order to be accepted in the church. If the scripture cannot define sin on something as clear and obvious as this, then it cannot define any of the essential Christian truths we hold to. This issue is an outright attack on the authority of scripture and the tradition of the Christian church throughout 2000 years. If there was movement which sought to do what the homosexual movement seeks to do with the sin of murder, theft, or drunkenness, then the Christian church would make a clear and hard stand against those things in the same exact way.

[@rocsaltjohn]

Homosexuality is adultery. Plain and simple. Approach it that way and there is no wiggle room.

[@Chey60]

I have said this for years now!!! 🎉!!!!! Applause and amen!! Well said!!!

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

I love the tie in to Andy Stanley 😂😂😂

[@lefebre27]

Hey, Nate. Many more blessings on your channel brother

[@edcroteau3237]

Nate, I totally agree with the contextualization of Christianity and the gospel way before ever starting a discussion with a person who identifies as gay... and you are 100% correct that the most important thing you can do is seek to understand by asking questions. Love it

[@davebella298]

I think it was a good answer. Your right that we need to frame this whole conversation better.

[@davidrobinson5180]

I think authority, as you said, is what was not clearly emphasized by Keller. He and his interlocutor seemed to be trying harder to position themselves without getting embarrassed. I really think fear of shame was very powerful in this argument. I love Paul because He was not afraid of the social shame of proclaiming the gospel.

[@janetdavis6473]

I think Keller went a little too soft, not clear on what Scripture says.

[@RicardoakaApostle]

These videos are always very helpful, Nate, especially when you provide practical conversational tips and strategies to certain common questions. Please keep these types of videos coming! 😊

[@johnnjax9095]

I'm a new subscriber & fan.. Good job. I love apologetics and enjoy hearing around the table discussions and views. Particular ones that have biblical resources to their faith.

[@johnray8623]

Thanks for drilling down to the root of answering tough questions. Paul reminds us in 2 Cor. 5 that we are ambassadors of reconciliation. Winsome, wise and knowledgeable in all our engagements.

[@mnjackson5772]

Nate, love the channel. I would point out that the "I will speak to my church first, and then I will try to answer for all of Christianity" was a go to line for Keller in his weekly "Open Forums". His point is not to be sarcastic, but to humorously make the point that the questioner was demanding a unreasonable amount by tasking him with defending the whole of Christendom. And every time I have heard him use that line, including at Google, it worked well.

[@lisamaries5677]

The worshiping of self leads nowhere healthy therefore the presence of the spirit cannot remain. I felt that exactly when I was lost. It's been a journey finding my way back to a healthy state of mind where I can begin to seek Christ and move towards the right value system that puts my faith in him and not my own understanding or justification. Thank you for this video... it finally helped me articulate where I was wrong. ❤

[@NyaNyaJP]

Well, I shared my thoughts with a friend who is struggling with homosexuality last night and shared this video. He is a new Christian but got sick of hearing "you are going to hell because you are gay" when, what lead him to homosexuality wasnt his own sin, he was abused. He was sexually abused by men and physically and emotionally tormented by women his whole life. He is now a very confused and hurting man. Part if me has great compassion for him. He loves Jesus and In time, slowly breaking away from the temptations he once had, but its taking time.

[@teravega]

Arrogance blinds us from the truth. We must realize that we are called to evangelism, not blind condemnation.

[@paulhand2104]

love your channel Nate... Keep'm coming

[@christianlemus44]

Keller’s ability to connect nearly any issue back to the basic gospel message as the prime solution is beyond brilliant. It was a good, balance response for a skeptical audience.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Tim Keller had a way of obscuring the Gospel. Towards the end, he even preached the anti-Gospel.

[@patrickc3419]

Tim Keller, unfortunately, was a false teacher. He was not a Christian. Along with refusing to condemn sodomites as sinners, he believed in evolution, intentionally would not preach on prenatal homicide, sympathized with Marxism, congratulated an “atheist friend” who was tapped to be the chaplain of Harvard, and supported the false teaching that a sodomite could be a Christian if they stayed celibate (even though the Bible says that sin comes from the heart). Most concerning, watch his disastrous interview with Martin Bhasir regarding the exclusivity of Christianity. He was a wolf, and unfortunately allowed NYC to influence him, rather than influencing NYC with the sovereign grace of God via the Gospel. Mark and avoid. 5 Solas from Buffalo.

[@DaleEarnhardt4ever]

@@patrickc3419just wanted to clarify your comment. Are you saying a gay man must also not lust, or must they not be gay anymore? Truly just wondering what exactly you meant by it.

[@patrickc3419]

@@DaleEarnhardt4ever No that’s okay… Both/And. What I mean by that is that both lusting (regardless of gendered attraction) as well as homosexuality are sins. Sin comes from the heart (see Matthew 15:17-19, Jeremiah 17:9). Christ even said that LOOKING at another woman with lust is akin to committing adultery.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

@rmac7519 There is no such thing as a "homosexual." There is such a thing as a person who struggles (or yields) to the sin of homosexuality. Someone who says "I'm gay but I don't act upon it" has acted upon it by insisting that his desire for homosexual sex is his identity. Desiring sin is sin.

[@vivekray2276]

Keller gave a very matured and balanaced answer. Those who understand the Bible and heart of God will understand this response. Others won't. It is a very clear answer.

[@user-ll6qw3it6g]

It was a circular answer. Although everyone is not going get it when given answers about what is Right and all in the Bible, he made it seem like a seesaw yes-no-yes answer. It could’ve been straightened out a bit more. We have to realize that we are not all on the same level with our understanding and all of the Bible and our journey to understanding God.

[@krimsonhulk7488]

11:49 I like when he said "no, being gay won't send you to hell. Sin will send you to hell". I think had he kept on that track his answer would have been better.

[@user-ll6qw3it6g]

I agree. Because he then turned around and said no. Sin won’t send you to hell and tried to circle back to yes but no but yes. He got himself stuck for a moment.

[@HappyHolyHealthyLife]

Excellent explanation! 👏🏾😊

[@jeffsilkwood9878]

Keller has a few ideas I take issue with, but on this point he is spot on. Nate, thanks for putting this video up! This is the fundamental issue that must be understood by the Church… and the world around us for that matter.

[@leluyaa]

I appreciate these videos Nate, always send the links to people the Lord has lead me to Disciple and minister to 🙏🏼❤️

[@darthkitty6883]

I don't like Keller's response because he equates homosexuality with heterosexuality. Heterosexuality is not a sin in itself however expressions of it can be sinful such as sex outside of marriage. Homosexuality however is always sin because it is a perversion of God's design. A better response is concisely found in "Yes, homosexuality is a sin, it will send you to hell, however we have a savior that died for sinners like homosexuals that if they repented of their sin and believed in Him they would be saved"

[@AfricanSheep]

Excellent video, food for thought. Found it very helpful!

[@brando3342]

I agree, I wouldn’t have worded it the way Tim did, but it was generally fine. Except for where he said “sin doesn’t send us to Hell”… well, actually, sin is exactly what sends us to Hell. So, I don’t quite understand what he meant by that.

[@charliecampbell6851]

What he meant is that everyone who's gone to heaven has been a non-stop sinner. Period.

[@brando3342]

@@charliecampbell6851 That's actually false though, according to the Christian worldview. We are called to sanctification, and even though we might not succeed entirely, that doesn't mean we aren't called to stop sinning. If you are a "non-stop sinner" and you aren't bothered by this, you better be questioning how saved you really are. Not only that, but that doesn't require one to suggest sin doesn't send us to hell. Sin absolutely sends us to Hell, sin which is not cleansed by belief in Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

[@charliecampbell6851]

@@brando3342 didn't say you should be okay with sinning all the time. Also, you said there that sin which is cleansed by Jesus' sacrifice doesn't send us to hell. So..... "sin" in the largest category of the term, does not automatically send us to hell. Unforgiven, unrepented sin does, sure. Keller has spoken plenty on condemnation and salvation, I'm sure you can find the language you're looking for in his material.

[@brando3342]

@@charliecampbell6851 Well, I’m just saying that I don’t think it is worded well here. Sin IS what sends us to Hell, in the broadest sense. If Christ didn’t come, we would be dead… in our sins. Sin without Christ, results in Hell. Without sin, there wouldn’t even be a need for Jesus to die. Think about it. Our sin is the lynch pin for the purpose of the gospel. No sin, no gospel. So yes, sin IS what sends us to Hell.

[@charliecampbell6851]

@@brando3342 if it's the necessary component for the gospel, then it also is the thing that doesn't send us to hell, because by its existence we needed Christ to redeem us. Let's just not pick on Keller for a short clip when he's pretty clear about condemnation, all things considered.

[@wessbess]

Andy Stanley is Apostate.

[@patrickc3419]

Yes, he is biblically unqualified to lead a church and needs to resign.

[@destroso]

This is so wrong, respecting homosexuality like it’s not a sin that Jesus who is God gave the death penalty for has led to the trans kids movement. God is not weak and we should come just as hard against fornication.

[@elmerfudd2402]

Would Keller be so charitable to a rapist or child molester? It's a soft answer to appease the audience/questioner. He seems to keep trying to be God's PR agent by working against the Holy Spirit's convicting us of guilt for our sin.

[@patrickc3419]

Tim Keller was not a Christian. This video pales in comparison to the disastrous interview he did with Martin Bhasir when asked regarding the exclusivity of Christianity. Watch it.

[@marukchozt6744]

Really? You think by you softening the answer you can work against the Holy Spirit's conviction? You have such a high view of yourself and a low view of the Spirit. Tim Keller said it was sinful, and he provided the context that the audience, unlike certain westerners, may not have been grown up in. People really believe that whacking people on the head with their sin is somehow the Holy Spirit convicting.

[@Lukas_101]

@@marukchozt6744 One of the reasons for his controversy is that traditionalists see him as too radical, and progressives see him as too conservative. But the thing is, Keller meets people where they are. People are all over the place in life, and he does his best to bring Jesus to whoever he is talking to in a Gospel-centric manner. If he wants to speak kindly and patiently, then he will. And if he needs to be stern and to the point, he will. He is imperfect, like us. So, when we seek perfection in teachings, wisdom, etc., we should focus on the Holy Bible, let the pastors of this world be supporters of our faith, and make Jesus Christ the foundation.

[@julianh9980]

Tim Keller was a believer, a Christian, he confessed Christ as Lord and believed that Christ was raised from the dead (Romans 10:9-10). He just got soft and sadly did not stand firm on this issue and perhaps there is not quite as much gold and silver as he hoped to be credited with, but hay and stubble--unbelief is the unforgivable sin, not going soft And that is the real problem with homosexuality: unbelief that causes one to think he or she does not need to be conformed to the image of Christ, but into the image of a god of their own making.

[@markpoppas8058]

My opinion is this was a pathetic answer from Keller and Nate. I need to remove myself and unsubscribe.

[@UnderTheFloor79]

Yeah. Can't believe the comments either.

[@The_New_Disciple]

Totally! I’m going to subscribe a second time! 🫵🏽🤦🏾

[@anastasiaburr3959]

There is nothing that needs balance about this!

[@wingedpanther73]

My first response: What makes you think we have something against homosexuals? Because the reality is, while we have something against their lifestyle, it is because we love them as people that we do.

[@Chey60]

And love others their movement is affecting

[@Saratogan]

I wrote the following before I heard all that Nate says. He has gotten to the core of the issue. What do Christians have against homosexuality? Wrong question. What does God have against homosexuality? Right question. God says that is wrong. Therefore it is wrong (along with all other sins). What is sin? Well the Greek word that we translate into English as sin literally means to miss the mark as in missing the bullseye in archery. But what are the implications of missing the mark? Do we just get a lower score? Well yes, except the fine print says that missing God's bullseye yields a score of zero. "All have sinned (missed the mark)and fallen short of God's glory." And, the consequence of missing the missing the mark is death -- "the wages (consequence) of sin is death". This includes homosexuality. Another way to think about sin is to exercise one's will in independence of God's will. This translates to not doing those things which He requires us to do as well as doing those things that he commands us not to do. That is the first principle. Now, we can get into an explanation about why God condemns homosexuality and His why is very simple. Homosexuality is outside of His creation order of things. It violates His order and He finds it offensive. You do it and you miss His bullseye. Your score is zero. You have exercised your will in independence of God's will. BTW, this applies to all of us -- homosexual or otherwise. "There is none righteous, no not one." Christ is the answer to the sin problem: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." You can be like the woman who was condemned by the Pharisees for adultery. Jesus says to her: "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way and sin no more."

[@user-ll6qw3it6g]

I thank you for being another person that is able to elaborate it all and into simplest terms. I have been commenting about the definition of sin lately on loads of videos because everyone speaks about sin but only a small percentage of people actually know what sin is. Thanks again for this and I hope that more people see your comment as well.❤️🎉💯🙏🏽

[@staceyforehand9513]

Keller certainly brought a deeper understanding of the gospel to the superficial question

[@KenBailey6721]

Yes, because sin doesn’t send you to hell. Rejection of the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ will make you a volunteer to be separated from God and not be a partaker of heaven or any of the gifts Jesus offers! If and when you accept Jesus Christ; although we do not become sinless we should therefore sin less.

[@ashlyn925]

Only 5 minutes into your video. So I can’t speak for the whole thing, but I did want to respond your comment about “reading the room” and how Tim making a cheeky comment about representing the Church at large. By this point in the interview, Tim has built rapport with both the moderator and the crowd. This is not the first question… this is much deeper within the interview. So his response was absolutely appropriate. Had he done this right off the bat, then I can understand your concerns. CONTEXT is very important… which I assume you know as a ministry leader.

[@ashlyn925]

Okay, I watched the rest of the video. Excellent commentary! Loved what you shared aside from the first few minutes! Extremely helpful video!

[@MrDabbles]

Great video Nate!! 🙂👍🏼

[@anthonypipkin]

My take is usually the position of “sin is sin”. I then shift to using a different sin that many believe exists in all/most people such as greed or lying (which often stem from self preservation, or greed). Then the conversation becomes about recognizing who God is and how we must respond to someone (or even some “thing”) in that magnitude. That me must yield and submit and trust.

[@chrisreal5367]

Dr. Mark Farnham's book, "Every Believer Confident, Apologetics for the Ordinary Christian" does a good job of doing what you are talking about.

[@mikejurney9102]

We don't have to address homosexual acts specifically. We can simply denounce anal and oral sex as unsanitary for any couples, gay or straight. That actually seems quite obvious, especially back in ancient times when there was no soap or toilet paper. The question becomes why should anyone want to do that anyway? It seems like an exploitation of every orifice in the body for fleeting moments of pleasure; it's a disrepect of the body. The problem is that some people may insist that these are acts of "love". However, as everyone should know, sex is not love. Just ask any prostitute, sex slave, or rape victim. Love is not using someone else's body for pleasure. Love is setting aside your own pleasure for the benefit of others.

[@brando3342]

Sex is a part of a specific kind of love, a very good and important part. In it’s proper place, sex is an extremely powerful expression of love. There are different forms of love, romantic love is not the same as brotherly love, for example. Also, you might want to study up on Song of Solomon 🤭

[@mikejurney9102]

@@brando3342 "an extremely powerful expression of love" ... that Jesus had nothing to do with. I think you are deceiving yourself.

[@brando3342]

@@mikejurney9102 What do you mean "that Jesus had nothing to do with"? What does that have to do with sex being good in it's proper place? Jesus said be fruitful and multiply, and affirmed that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you think he was advocating some sort of platonic relationship?

[@tylerbuckner3750]

Anyone who has a truly regenerate heart will want to please and obey God in every area of life. Twisting Scripture, whether gay or straight, to justify or excuse sin is not the sign of someone who truly loves God. It’s the twisting of God’s Word that has become the hallmark of the woke church. They’re living in opposition to Romans 6:1-2.

[@patrickc3419]

Amen. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

[@user-ll6qw3it6g]

Romans 6:1-13.💯💯💯🙏🏽❤️👍🏽

[@brianshroyer8473]

Great video!

[@ogmakefirefiregood]

First! I very much enjoy your content. Gives me stuff to listen to at work. AND I learn stuff.

[@larrylafferty3836]

what do you do when a family member pastors a affirming church ?

[@juzeus9]

depends what they're affirming. gay marriage is right. mutilation and hrt is wrong.

[@wesleydickens9283]

I suspect Keller would see homosexuals in his church bedding with one another, pursuing to bed with younger boys, and never say do or do anything to denounce the practice. All because he says the act of sin is not what sends you to hell. And his gospel was all you need is a "connection with Christ."

[@wesleydickens9283]

One has to remember, our churches are not the place to do "outreach evangelism" and a pastor who is so ignorant to allow sin into his church and give it opportunity to harm his flock has no business being a pastor. Yes the church is to tell people that is not a place that will tolerate homosexuality, abuse, adultery, gluttony, theft, etc.

[@maleanewborn9073]

We need to define what the Bible means by “love” because live your neighbor does NOT mean to accept vile behavior! It means to love them enough to tell them the truth. And if you do not go to hell for homosexuality, why would you go to hell for being self righteous or any other sin? Isn’t HE the one cherry picking? And how is greed a much bigger sin when Gid destroyed twin cities for homosexuality/sexual immorality? Not for greed or self righteousness

[@ManuelAlfredo-np7ou]

The sin under all sins. Thanks for your wise clarification.

[@gregx2966]

"The sin under the sin". This is the first time I heard this phrase. I agree with Keller on what really sends people to hell. Thank you for this video.

[@agiksf.8998]

This is so good and helpful! You are absolutely right - all Christians need to know how to tackle this in a response that will not be antagonistic. If you start your conversation - 'Because the Bible says so and you will burn in hell!' - you will never get the other person to listen to you.

[@Unique_Monk]

Another excellent video

[@SuperDpoole]

Keller was brilliant!!!!!!!

[@Paul-zf8ob]

Let’s play devils advocate! If a man well known in the church who is married brings his lover to church and wants to praise God!! What should the church do? You tell me! I would throw him out till he returns to his wife!

[@ArmandoMartinez-k7h]

Sin is a sin God see it all the same. Lies murder greed. The Lord see it all the same.

[@user-ll6qw3it6g]

Also Sin is anything we think, say or do that does not please God. I like how you put it but I’m just giving you another way to say that as well. ❤️💯🙏🏽🎉

[@codywhitaker8620]

Mr Nate, if you happen to havr the time 8n your schedule, would you PLEASE analyze the debate between James White and Bart Ehrmann? I'm only aware of it being on Ehrmans KZbin channel, so perhaps it has some biased edits to he video, but I would love to watch someone more able to discern the arguments being formed and articulated. Especially on a subject so intimate to both men in the video like textural criticism. Please and thank you. God Bless

[@johnjosephmanimtim2853]

Hey Nate, would like to know your deeper take is on ecclessiocentric churches and how the Christian life should generally revolve around the church.

[@lauramikow2381]

Keller did a masterful job. He was communicating with a fairly hostile opponent and he showed him the truth in love.

[@kevinhenry5749]

I agree mostly with you, Nate. Especially when it comes to defining sin. I see it time and time again when I share the gospel that people don't understand what sin is. So it must be clearly defined.

[@Persuadedapologetics]

“You’re going to hell because you think you can be your own savior.” Well in that statement baked in the assumption that you have a condemning sin issue. You can’t go to hell because you were already going to hell and thought you could steer clear yourself.

[@LaurenSheehan]

It would be great to have a list of better questions to have better converations with gay indentifying people

[@swoosh1mil]

11:00 What does that saying mean...'the frog in the kettle?'

[@pamelajewell2879]

I think he is referring to a story about putting a frog in hot water he jumps out but if you put him in cold water and slowly turn it up the frog will boil to death.

[@zcarver25]

Awesome video Nate

[@Darthrocker06]

I've always understood this perable to be about salvation.

[@MrRawnerves]

1 Samuel 16:7 "For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart." LGBTQ people ( like all of the US ) will be judged in the end for what is inside our hearts. Many of us Christians may hear the dreaded words from our lord, “Depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you”.

[@crossbros30]

Be ready in season and out of season now is the day for the gospel of Jesus Christ

[@booglywoogly566]

I dont think you can sidestep the issue. All sins lead to death, we are called to love our neighbor and a part of that is to help them identify sin that needs to be repented of. With homosexuality its something culture has taken and made into an identiy which makes it harder for people to repent of because its "who they are". When someone comes to jesus and genuinely is brought into the fold of god they are not who they were before anymore. They are now God's children with a new identity so they should work to cast off the old dead sinful identity. This is hard work and we are all equally called to work at this. Its just in this case we need to be firm on calling sin out for being sin

[@gundelmuller3458]

Any sex outside of marriage is a sin. Love the person but hate the sin

[@andrewstambaugh240]

I understand that Tim needed to reframe the discussion, and it's hard to do in the pressure of the moment. *But he crossed the line of saying things that are blatantly not true several times.* When i watched his video a while ago, it definitely left me questioning how solid Tim is on the validity of the Bible. The Spirit of Truth... from whom no lie flows Vs The father of lies... Jesus never had to lie - to defend the truth. From a wisdom standpoint, it is good to develop a sense of compassion and understanding. But I've does not have to compromise values and truth to do that. He was wise/right to remove the question from the hyper focus on one sin. Why do thieves go to hell? Liars? Murderers? I see the overall framework in 2 levels: 1. God is a gentleman. He does not force us into an eternal relationship we refuse to accept. 2. The sheepdog 3. The banquet/feast Sheepdog explained (emotional appeal): You have a farm with animals you care for and want to protect. You get a farm dog to protect the animals. It's been for that purpose and you try to train it, but despite every effort, it instead keeps attacking the farm animal instead of protecting them. If you love the other animals, how long can you allow it to keep killing them? Let's make it more real, you look out the kitchen window and see it stalking your children! (Ask the audience) How long would _you_ let that dog continue if it was your previous children? .... (Give time for emotional weight) God has way more patience that i would extend. He created us for good purposes. Yet people choose not only to love destructive sinfulness instead - they aren't content to destroy just their selves. They take down others with them. They complain when God mercifully gives them chance after chance. But if God forced them, they'd equally complain that He's just a dictator. So He let's them have what they want - absence from Him. He holds everything together. Refusing Him is ultimately choosing rejection of their identity and oblivion. The feast: If you decided to do a nice thing for everyone and their a great feast. Everyone here is invited. Then that guy over there refuses to eat. Should we be upset with you when he's hungry? God did tremendous sacrifice to offer us redemption. Instead of gratitude, people are angry when they refuse to partake. If good took the opportunities away, they'd be angry for that. In fact, they'd almost have a legitimate complaint that it wasn't fair. But God is just and loving. So He gives exceedingly lovingly abundant opportunities. And people use that as an excuse to keep rejecting Him and acting against their purpose. They keep devouring. God eventually ends that empty misery of a life.

[@juzeus9]

Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. When the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. the famine of 2.8 million homeless children in america, is for family. 1/4 million children in america have parents, for no other reason than gays exist. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

[@MattyD315apologetics]

Question to u nate? Is there a point in any Christians life where they have fully repented? Aka Any point in their life where they were without sin?

[@sm112103]

We are absolutely living in a post Christian society. Treat them as an unbeliever, preach to them the gospel, from the scriptures! This is where I would differ. It does not matter if they recognize the scriptures as the authoritative Word, we cannot give ground there, if we do then we relinquish our belief in it's authority.

[@bradchurdar2839]

Keller’s word salad of riddles and ambiguities was a good example of cowardice masquerading as nuance.

[@davidkinkaide1467]

Tim Keller was doing a lot of tap dancing on the issue of sin and what is sin. I’ve read Tim Keller and he is wrong on a lot of scripture and this interview is no different. Don’t listen to Tim Keller. Read the Bible for yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to understanding.

[@patrickc3419]

Correct. Not sure if you’re familiar, but this actually pales in comparison to the disastrous interview he did with Martin Bhasir when he would not directly answer whether Christianity was exclusive. Watch it here. He was a wolf, for sure.

[@patrickc3419]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHi7Ypl-jLpkiqM

[@edcroteau3237]

Oh man, Nate, I just love how you wrapped up Keller's discourse on what sends people to hell.... here's how Jeremiah puts it in chapter 17, verse 5: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man, who makes flesh his strength... whose heart departs from the Lord." This verse actually says WE - our inner heart - departs from God, not Him from us!

[@LaurenSheehan]

I have a question I would love an answer to. #1) I've been reading 1 Samuel and I can't help but read into Jonathan and David's relationship and how pro gay theology people would use it as evidence for supporting homeosexuality. It even says David loved Johnathan more than his wives. #2) how do we love our neighbors who identify as gay, while not condoning their lifestyle and sin? How do we love our gay neighbors for example while not believing gay marriage should be legal etc? If we believe gay marriage is no marriage, should we politically still allow gay marriage?

[@christinepeterson8097]

As far as David and Jonathan, relationships can be very deep and meaningful without being sexual. I would stop “reading into” it. Would you look past your neighbor, friend, family member who is sinning, not hurting anyone but themselves, but knowingly going against Gods will to their own demise? Their demise not in this life but for their salvation. I have realized that I can’t change anyone but only Jesus can. This is not hate but love.

[@corbinyoung925]

I agree with Nate about the point that I think Keller is trying to make, but I also think that Keller didn't answer it in the best way. Nate is 100% correct that the "sin under the sin" is, ultimately, the rejection of God as the one who deserves the glory. "For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks." (Rom 1) However, I take great issue with Keller saying that sin doesn't send people to hell, the self-righteous idea that you can save yourself is what sends you to hell (paraphrasing). This is fundamentally incorrect. We go to hell because we have broken God's law (the first of which is to have no other gods, which goes back to what Nate said about humanity rejecting God as God and setting ourselves up to be God, the same thing that Adam and Eve tried to do in the garden). If sin doesn't send us to hell, then what do we need saving from? Why would we self-righteously think that we could save ourselves, when we wouldn't even know that we needed to be saved from anything at all. It makes no sense. Also, rejecting Christ, rejecting the Gospel, does NOT send you to hell. You were already on your way there. To say that rejecting Christ sends you to hell is to say that you weren't going to hell until you rejected Christ, and that is simply not true. If Christ never came and accomplished His work, we would still be going to hell because of our sin. Christ saves us from sin and death (hell), and believing in Him gives us eternal life. He is the way of escape. Escape from what? From hell, the place to which you and I were going. Again, I get the point that I think Keller is trying to make, and I do agree with Nate about seeing the overall picture of sin and not just focusing on the one case of the LGBT stuff, but we really need to be careful with how we word things. Sometimes we can end up confusing people more than clarifying. And that's my issue with what Keller said. I think ultimately he ended up confusing people more than clarifying, because what he said raises a number of questions, a few of which I've mentioned here. I would respond to the initial question by saying that God is our Creator. He has designed us first and foremost to bring glory to Himself. That is the role of all of His creation. One aspect that He has given us, or one way in which we bring Him glory, is through the union that He set up between Adam and Eve. God said that it was not good for Adam to be alone, so He created Eve and gave her to him. Scripture says that "for this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This is the picture of marriage that Scripture gives us. Scripture also makes very clear that any sexual relationship outside of marriage is sinful. The Law details many of these ways, one of which being homosexuality. I would also bring in what Nate mentioned about Romans 1 (that was spot on). Ultimately, homosexuality, at its core, is a rejection of God's design. It's a rejection of God's design in marriage, of sexuality, and ultimately of His design for us as individuals. Is homosexuality the end all be all sin that sends you to hell? No, it isn't. But it is still sinful. And unless you repent of your sins and believe the Gospel, you are going to hell. "For the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23a)

[@charliecampbell6851]

He says sin doesn't send you to hell because every single believer on earth who will go to heaven has sinned an enormous amount of times.

[@edcroteau3237]

Nate, I love the way Keller lays this out on "Is homosexuality a sin?" I think Jeremiah 17:5 gives us the answer on "how to end up in hell".... its actually thinking you do not NEED Jesus because you are fine the way you are... i.e., you reject God's authority on what sin is to Him

[@robb6059]

And so long one will be sinful, he will not be able to understand what is God. Śrīla Prabhupāda

[@bgstop5260]

I would say that every single person deserves hell. Because if God really is a perfectly good being than he must punish wrongdoing. Keller answered with the need for a savior which is the main point but did not really say sin itself is that serious. I think it’s tricky answering a sin question that a questioner isn’t struggling with. It’s ultimately challenging the goodness of God which the objector usually doesn’t believe in anyways. So it seems necessary to go the well who gets to decide what’s good or evil if not God Himself route.

[@paulhand2104]

There is no quick response to these questions. If one starts off quoting Bible verses to a non believer, it's not really going to have any effect and will lead and continue to lead to animosity towards Christianity. And, that goes for anyone who is living a sinful life style, wether it be Heterosexual or Homosexual sexual immorality. And it doesn't stop there, you could quote Bible verses about stealing to a theif, Adultry to someone who's cheating on his wife, Gossiping to someone who loves to gossip, killing to someone who's a murder.... They are not going to like your repsonse to something they clearly do not want to stop doing. So, no matter what you say it's not going to be received well. But that doesn't mean, as Christian's we should not have a response, what do we do???? I've been in this situation many times and it has never been with me quoting Bible verses, " The Clobber Passages " as Andy Stanley put it right off the bat. It will definitely end with Bible verses, but not at the start. Also, It's only possible to have this kind of conversation with someone who is not a beliver is if they are willing to genuinely and honestly hear what you believe and why you believe what you believe on this subject. The problem with that is, there aren't many people who want or who are looking for that kind of conversation. The way I have approached these kinds of questions is by asking them questions... I have studied apologetics for years and it has helped me in many conversations defend my faith, but this area has alway been a problem for me, basically I didn't no how to use my apologetic, because I always came off to the Homosexuall, sounding like I'm right and your wrong and I never was able to defend my belief effectively. But, a few years ago a friend of mine recommended a book called " Tatics " by Greg Koukl and by reading and studing his book has helped me in the art of asking questions. Not just any questions, but the right kinds of questions that will lead the person asking the loaded question to unpack their world view. As you ask the right questions or leading questions, you can then use your knowlege of apologetics and God's word to help them see why you believe in what you believe and have the world view that you hold. It's basically helping them unpack their world view to see truth. So, when someone asks me, " Why do you Christians hate homosexuals and say that we're all going to hell? " I say... " What do you mean by Christians? " Then they would automatically say, " You know, Christians, Jesus followers or people who believe in the God of the Bible. Then I would say " What do you mean by God? Then they would say you know " The God of relgion " Then I would say " Do you believe in God? " Depending on their response to that queston will dictate what types of questons I would ask that would help them see why I or we as Christians believe in a real God And then help them see the facts not subjective opinions why the belief in God is true through many apologetic pathways like the Cosmological and Teleological arguements for the existence of God. And then from there, I would keep on asking questions that leads them to see that the God of the Bible is real and that Jesus is that God. If I get that far and the person has unpacked their world view to the point and is beginning to see that thier world view is in error, Then I can keep asking questions to help them see that God has a problem with sin, with Homosexuality being one of them among all the other sins that are listed in the Bible. I would help them see that they have a problem with God, not me. And that takes the target off your back and diffuses any hostility towards you as a person. And then, I would help them see that I'm in the same boat they are in and that I and everyone else needs their sin to be forgiven through scirpture, God's word so we all don't go to hell. That's how in the past I have been able to defend Christianity's positon on Homosexuality. I hope this helps. Again I totally recommend anyone who's interested, to get Greg Koukl's book " Tactics "

[@juzeus9]

the animosity came when parents kicked their gay children out of their house, or "correctively raped" them

[@Taterstiltskin]

very helpful! the issue I almost always see or run into isn't just the questioner's framing of the question, but that they won't let you reframe that question, or constantly reiterate the question in the original framing. I know there are those who can turn the conversation around with these types much better than I, but in all my experiences I think it's clear they aren't actually interested in the answer, rather they are barely hiding their hostility and seem absolutely determined to find an excuse to vilify. I think that is somewhat present in a lot of these type conversations to an extent, but some have this determination to not listen and these conversations have a bit of a different feel to them, so by default now I try not to even engage with anyone. I think this video has been helpful and maybe with this in mind I'll actually engage next time. thanks

[@airkami]

"Now more than ever, the gospel must be contextualized to a culture that is foreign to it." "The we communicate needs to shift to recognize this reality." Investigate why the person is asking the question. Yeah the man born blind said to people questioned him asked, "Do you intend to become his disciple?" So, if you want conversation, why not be biblical. Why do you want to open the conversation on man's terms instead of God's terms?

[@AslanRising]

I'm sorry, but Keller saying "will greed send you to hell? No....self righteousness will. This is highly misleading. Is greed a sin? Yes. What does sin deserve? Death. It's as if Keller is answering why one rejects Christ. But rejection of Christ, as we I said in a previous comment, is one sin among many. What people need to first understand that they're going to hell whether they hear of Christ or not. The one who never hears of Christ will go to hell because of their sin. People need to be told they are, as we speak, hell bound walking dead. Christ comes in as a Savior, to raise them from the dead, and make them heaven bound. Christ came as Savior, not Judge. Now in the final judgment, Christ will judge, but this will be simply to show whom remained dead in sin and who were born again. Said another, who will be judged by their works, and who will be judged by Christs works.

[@FuddlyDud]

@AslanRising Keller means that greed doesn’t send you to hell since we can repent and seek forgiveness through Jesus. :) This is why he references the sin under the sin, for believing you are righteous in your greed/judgment/sexuality is what damns you since you won’t think it’s sin. :/ In other words, the sin of greed can be forgiven when repented. Those who are self righteous don’t see they are being sinful, regardless of what the sin at issue is. :(

[@AslanRising]

@@FuddlyDud but greed can send one to hell because one its sin and two not everyone hears of Christ. Furthermore, we can repent (if the Lord wills) of pride.

[@FuddlyDud]

@@AslanRising All of what you said is true, but is not the topic at issue. Mainstream culture encourages the self righteous disposition of Pride, which encourages sins of sexuality. Two things can be true at once and shouldn’t be used to invent conflict where none exists. :)

[@seanelgin]

Something that also does not get addressed very much, is the cultural implications when talking about homosexuality. How the language is used reveals this. Such things as "I'm gay", "coming out of the closet", he's so courageous to proclaim his "true self", all betray this particular sin as being redefined from an act, forbidden by God, to the sum total of that person's identity. The norm for the LGBTQ community is to define their TOTAL IDENTITY by their sexual preference, rather than by their relationship with God or other more important qualities - their sense of morality, how loving they are, how smart they are, how spiritual they are, etc. Nothing matters to their identity other than the quality of "being gay". So when we as Christians try to communicate that a man lying with a man is one of many sins, instead of hearing "this particular action is wrong under God", they hear "my very identity, my very self, is wrong". While that may be true for the Calvinists - true for everyone in the Calvinist sense - that's not the message we're trying to communicate. We talk to them about Christianity out of love - at least, that should be our motivation - because that is the greatest commandment, AND a part of the Great Commission. You are right - this is an issue that is fraught with potential for misunderstanding, misunderstanding that could unnecessarily drive folks away from Christianity, rather than draw them towards it. Thank you so much for showing this video - it did add some clarity to my own thoughts on this matter. Glad I found you and this channel. Blessings to you, and keep up the good fight.

[@arnolddonaldson7129]

I have enjoyed your videos. You have inspired me to put my education, career experience, and faith to work and react to sermons online. But I'm not sure how to deal with copy right infringements. My understanding is that you have to make a piece of "art" transformative." But still on YT the one who created the content you are using can flag it- and YT usually favors the original content because they don't want to get sued. How do you get around that? Have you had issues using content from other creators? Do you have videos that get flagged and then you win appeals?

[@onbored9627]

But why then do you wear mixed fabrics?

[@patrickc3419]

Because the Mosaic Law/Levitical Law was specifically given to the specific Israel nation at that time (see Romans 9:4, Exodus 19, Leviticus 26). The Moral Law is written on each and every man’s heart. You know it’s wrong to lie because God is not a liar; you know it’s wrong to murder because the God who created you isn’t a murderer, etc. You try and live a “good life” from cradle to grave, and follow all the dietary and fabric laws you want, it’ll lead you to a just Hell. See Galatians 2:21.

[@onbored9627]

@@patrickc3419 But if you use Leviticus to say it's wrong, but don't follow the other rules, that makes no sense?

[@patrickc3419]

@@onbored9627 To clarify, you are saying to use Leviticus to say homosexuality is wrong?

[@onbored9627]

@@patrickc3419 Yes.

[@patrickc3419]

@@onbored9627 Alright. So, again, rather than reinvent the wheel; I would defer back to my previous answer; that really covers it. Additionally, I’d be remiss to not mention that much of the Mosaic/Levitical law was due to dietary, health reasons, much more important, was because of God’s covenant with His people; the Jewish people.

[@rocsaltjohn]

The answer to the question of homosexuality being a sin will show you a Chrisitan on the meat, or a Christian on the milk. Because as he points out here, a simple "yes" doesn't go far enough.

[@jameshughes2911]

Hate to sound like a broken record and user of worn cliché s... but you hit it out of the park. Great job!

[@brandonbecker4479]

Keller phrases this deceitfully. Those sins do send you to hell because they separate you from God. That could be expanded upon within a Christian framework, but to say homosexuality/greed don’t send you to hill is an untrue statement, since it is sin that sends you to hell, including those sins.

[@vincentwood7036]

Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ has eternal life: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" But there is also the doctrine of excommunication from the church for continued sin.

[@cryptocorey8582]

Tricky language to politician his way to neutrality

[@discerningx3375]

Repentance and Jesus as savior are the keys. Either you have those keys or you don't.

[@MattyD315apologetics]

I would simply make it. The argument is we are all centers. Once were some of you the distinguishing mark there is the fact that we repend. We recognize what is San according to God. And what is not the day community chooses to say? It is not a sin when God says it is.