Did Wayne Rooney REALLY Fulfil His Potential?! 👀😱 | Simon & Souness | Episode Eight

Join Simon Jordan & Graeme Souness each week in 'Simon & Souness'! This week, the pair discuss if Wayne Rooney's career really lived up to his potential, if Celtic & Rangers enter the English pyramid, and why they both wrote top-selling books!
00:00 - Intro
01:11 - Did Wayne Rooney fulfil his potential?
12:01 - Should Celtic & Rangers play in the Premier League?
16:31 - Why did Simon & Graeme write books?
20:25 - Does the media get managers sacked?
23:37 - Is Michael Beale all that?
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#talkSPORT
#premierleague
#waynerooney
#simonjordan
#GraemeSouness
#football
#manchesterunited

[@TomsToys95]

Absolute monster from the age of 16, yes he got burnt out later on in his career and he didn't like keeping fit and he's clearly let himself go a bit since retirement, IF he wanted to he could have been better and could have scored more goals if he was hungrier, but he was so selfless, all he wanted to do was win, individual awards didn't seem to be his focus and would rather the team win no matter what. The fact he dropped in to Midfield at United then into DM at Derby, and was played on the wing for England at times just shows his versatility. I loved his tenacity and power. Sorely, sorely missed at United 😢 Never seen another player like him, one of a kind player and an absolute legend.

[@Motownisyourtown]

To be honest I don't know how much better he could've been. He was probably in the top 5-10 players in the world at his peak. He wasn't going to out perform Ronaldo or Messi.

[@TomsToys95]

@@Motownisyourtown True. He couldn't have got much better, he was already world class but he could have been more clinical and potentially stayed world class longer. Either way, legend!😁

[@PALWE]

Rooney’s goal scoring record would have been even better but for sacrificing for Ronaldo. The same goes for benzema. That’s why they were both seen as better after Ronaldo left .

[@jeffd3473]

He was 2nd best to messi up till 2010, that world cup sadly ruined him, and then Ronaldo got better. Ronaldo wasnt even in the frame as the best until after 2011. People have short memories.

[@RoadTripperrr]

@@Motownisyourtowna lot better lol. Maybe scored 50% more goals than he did if he’d been fitter

[@BisChrisamson]

You can tell that these two are starting to develop a strong friendship

[@flankspeed]

Well, if only because you get 20 minutes in, and Simon Jordan is still breathing 😂

[@mortonheadhunter5695]

The ONLY player to have scored 200+ and have 100+ assists in the premier leauge Add to that he’s the Manchester Utd record goalscorer and was the first man to break Charltons England record Anyone who pours scorn on Wayne Rooney doesn’t understand football

[@colinmcmenamin4114]

Simon And Graeme are brilliant. Love to listen to them.

[@darrenmasters638]

Love the banter between the two

[@cc8530]

Do you? That’s nice sweetheart, I hope you find your own banter to enjoy sweetheart

[@mattgaskell945]

I’ve never seen any player work as hard for his team in his pomp than Rooney. Unbelievable work rate. Then you add all the goals, assists, tracking, passing, tackling, pressing etc etc. Incredible.

[@littleCarmine]

That's because most of the time he's the one who gave it away with his bad passing and poor dribbling attempts. Was great 04-06 and then started declining. I promise if you go back and keep an eye on him over 90 mins in games and you'll be surprised how bad he often was. usually a tap in or maybe a nice shot would mask 89 mins of mistakes

[@lfcspectre4335]

Simon & Graeme = Top LADS Proper Clobbers 💯 Facts

[@ranenekubia5351]

The look like extras on Only Fools and Horses 😂

[@rich7372]

Are you joking?

[@shanehughes9938]

Was record goal scorer for England and still is for United. CL winner and 3 time finalist. How people question his career baffles me

[@Ivar-the_Boneless]

These 2 are the only thing that’s good about Talksport these days. Excellent show chaps

[@Tom-ws2zx]

And Danny Murphy, Martin O’Neill. Jim’s just a prick lol

[@robzombie5928]

At 26 there was a massive drop off in Rooneys physical ability but he was a beast from 16 to 26. He didn't look after himself enough, or he would still probably be playing now.

[@ameypv]

starting his career full-fledged at 16, when you are still developing physically and playing at the top level for a decade - eventually does take a toll. His workrate and playing style contributed to it. Simply can't keep up that intensity for so long.

[@roathripper]

'you look like you borrowed your scarf from dale vince' 🤣

[@horseracinghq]

Great chemistry between these 2. Always a fantastic watch.

[@Blaxellinho]

love it. great dynamic between the two and a bit of rinsing back and forth

[@Steve-ps4fx]

I've watched football for 25 years and I've still yet to see a better more viscously passionate and talented player than Rooney! (Messi, Ronaldo not included) He was unbelievable! Honestly people always seem to forget how good he was!

[@judgingfootball]

Rooney was just the last of an old school breed who were amazing but done it from 16 to 30 and couldn’t anymore. One of the best ever, trophies and records to back it up. Can’t blame him for England, I’m a Liverpool fan but always rated Rooney so high it’s undeniable what he was

[@BlackBeltNob]

Those unlucky enough to not see Rooney play, look up him trying to win back a drop ball, and his volley after arguing with the ref. That sums him up, ABSOLUTE MONSTER, we're sorely missing players like that in this day and age

[@Motownisyourtown]

He was one of a kind but there are plenty of players today who are just as good.

[@mrc8985]

@@Motownisyourtown Like who?

[@Motownisyourtown]

@@mrc8985 Haaland for one is a much better goalscorer and has more goals than him in the Champions League at a much younger age, he has had a much higher goal scoring season already. I wouldn't say that Rooney was much better than Salah. Kane scored more goals in less games than Rooney in a much weaker club. I'm not saying they're better as such, but there are players just as capable.

[@truthoverlies1820]

😂😂😂​@@Motownisyourtown

[@ruddock7]

@@Motownisyourtown Name some please, especially English players!!

[@GIBBO4182]

Not for England he didn’t. His best tournament was his first one, never got close to that level again

[@vantheman1238]

Absolutely bang on. In that first tournament I thought we had one of the best footballers in the world he was that good and exciting. Unfortunately it petered out.

[@SteveAustin-zv1nn]

Which 1st team England player DID fulfil their potential during that era?

[@kieranj1332]

Forgetting about 3 tournaments he was injured and rushed back

[@GIBBO4182]

@@SteveAustin-zv1nn true, but it looked like we’d got a player who was finally going to win us a tournament…then he never showed up again. He was terrible for us in every other tournament he played!

[@GIBBO4182]

@@kieranj1332 yeah, let’s rewrite history

[@nathanliepner689]

Phenomenal show gentlemen 🙌👏

[@billyfarmer3967]

Always great chat

[@joeexotic5831]

The old girl who ran the brothel on everton valley missed wayne when he moved on, always lovely to the elderly was wayne 😂

[@dnb_brett_breezy]

😂😂😂

[@listianocrowe]

Starting to flow a lot better now between them. Good episode of Simon and Graemefunkel.

[@waldopepper1572]

Good natter by two of my favorite talkers. Marvelous

[@elainekerslake6865]

Wayne was a team man. To accommodate CR he moved to a left midfield position so CR could star in a great team. Not many players would have got on with that. When Man City came calling for Wayne in 2011, Jose was asked if he would take Wayne to Real. Jose said ...In an instant..you don't turn down Wayne. He could have changed his lifestyle to stay at the top longer but had no real motivation.

[@flyoverfredusa]

great series

[@craigelderRFC]

Rooney is England’s best ever, a complete footballer, you could have played him anywhere and he would be a 8/10 every week

[@thesmithsnerd]

No he wasn’t. Bobby Charlton was, Bryan Robson was arguably better. Rooney is right up there tho.

[@stevethedweeb3846]

Not even close. Rooney eclipses them both easily

[@thesmithsnerd]

@@stevethedweeb3846 clearly never seen any of them play. Go watch the 1968 European Cup Final. Bobby Charlton runs that game, on a field full of George Best’s and Eusebio’s, it’s Charlton that looks the big man, the man completely assured, the man that’s playing like he’s already got a World Cup winners medal tucked in his back pocket. You’re talking about a man that won world cups, European cups, ballon dor’s, was two footed, great in the air, could beat people within ease, seldom lost the ball, Bobby Charlton was absolutely incredible! Robson likewise, tho I can make a less compelling case for him cos he was injured a lot, but he carried United in the 80s, and was the most natural born leader England has ever produced.

[@stevethedweeb3846]

@@thesmithsnerd football was garbage back then if Rooney played then he would’ve scored a billion goals

[@lennon1482]

@@thesmithsnerd george best yea alright, half the team stood off him, he wouldn't survive in the modern game

[@ELNinoLuke]

Lads, don't use a beep sound, it's too loud. Just silence the curse words

[@Moracha]

Great watch 👍

[@garethmorgan7474]

Great episode

[@StephenCarrIsBald]

Alright mate, neither of them will go down on you

[@mrc8985]

@@StephenCarrIsBald Why bring your mums favourite activity into this? 🤔

[@StephenCarrIsBald]

@@mrc8985 we have the same mom just different dads so this is awkward

[@paulbutler4580]

Don't let the silk scarf fool ja, souness was a beast, a beast,

[@jacobfield4848]

Wayne Rooney and Bobby Charlton were the best 2 English players there has ever been, my view. Due to poor diet Wayne Rooney was finished at 30, many other greats played till 35 and more.

[@danielcain6671]

Very good watch

[@chrisbax760]

Man Utd highest goal scorer…. Look at the medals…. Is this seriously a question?

[@markflynn2669]

He didn’t reach his ceiling possibly.

[@leedsunitedoldschool2837]

I like Souness and Jordan aswell. Its always a good talk. Would like to hear Souness thougths and memories about Leeds United as a club. Souness is perhaps a bit young to have come up against fellow scot Billy Bremner and all them scots in that great Leeds United team.

[@ElectricSoulShow]

same with me

[@richard_1111]

Brilliant duo

[@Fenian91]

Fantastic player Legendary

[@apachesurvival5440]

Share a stadium. Aye very good Graham.

[@FivePastMidnight]

It's not even just the goals, he was a selfless player who assisted an insane amount. Look at the assist stats! He lived up to his potential but the body declined in his early 30s.

[@Woze899]

Declined at 26

[@user-sp5pi9pg6x]

Rooney in his prime was a absolute beast he had all pace power unbelievable workhorse and a lethal finisher

[@anthonyclarke8085]

He was an everton player when he went to US

[@alandrummond5290]

Graeme just completely bypassed the book plug 😂😂😂

[@iainmartin2350]

United talk again,always gets the most views

[@henrickemmerson4140]

I cannot remember which footballer said it recently in a podcast but a professional footballer that keeps injury free has a maximum of around 13-15 years in and around the first team of a premier league club. Rooney was 1st team by the age of 18 at Utd so by 31 he was of course going to be burnt out. It's also why Vardy is still going strong into his late 30's, his career didn't get going until his mid 20's. There will of course be anomalies to this but it's a decent yard stick for longevity and given the intensity that Rooney played with and his minutes per season his career was plenty long enough.

[@zinedinezidane4771]

The fact Rooney played at a high level from 16 with the English media on his back the whole time. Declining at 26 is something to be marvelled at not sniggered at. I don't know many that can cope that much that long. Player like Beckham etc started properly in their early 20s which tends to give them more longevity.

[@awbox1]

I actually feel so priviledged to have watched rooney and ronaldo play together in their prime years, one thing people dont realise unless youre in the stadium watching the games is how much rooney ran off the ball, he wouldnt just run to track back he was constantly jogging to find space even when the ball was nowhere near him, his career may not have lasted as long as fans would have liked but very few wonder kids careers do. I suppose theres an element of burnout and also the fact he won everything possible at club level which meant he didnt need to push himself into his late 30s and become a bit part player. Watching united go 2 down at OT against spurs and then come out 2nd Half and Rooney and Ronaldo both bag a brace and we win the game 5-2 was the best thing ive ever witnessed live. Wayne was unreal that season, i genuinly think at that time him and Ronaldo could have walked into any team in the world and would have been 2 of that teams best 3 players. Wayne was a street baller who was volatile at times bcus of how passionate he was and his will to win, but he could also produce pure magic out of nowhere and rsrrly had a bad game..maybe im bias because im a united fan, but for me hes the best all round footballer england has ever produced. You could play him in every position on the pitch including in goal and he'd do a job for you and not look out of place. Unreal talent

[@homeboy21390]

Rooney won everything he could have at club level and retired as Englands top goalscorer. The fact people debate whether he couldve done more is a testament to how good he was.

[@xbriskx]

The beeps are a bit loud

[@shinobis_shadow87]

At club level 100%, gave it and won it all. The GOAT workhorse player of all time. They don't make them like him now.

[@seanstrowger7716]

Finished as top scorer for England and Man U and still people wonder if he fulfilled his potential … that alone tells you how good he really was.

[@Andy-fb1db]

That's misleading, yeah at wembey playing georgia an San Marino was great, went missing at the world cups though, he took he scored 5 more goals than lineker but played 40 england matches more than him, his goals to games ratio was average at best.

[@user-sp5pi9pg6x]

If anyone would know about a world class player its souness as he was one himself

[@shanefoy3720]

I really like this, the two best talksport guys having a belting chinwag, priceless 😂😂😂

[@SimonGlobetrotter]

Waine's problem is that despite being a world-class player, there is not enough between the ears to be a manager.

[@kevobeney5308]

Simon and Graeme have admiration and respect for each other. Personally would love Daragh MacAnthony to join in

[@user-yu7ko6do4k]

Did Rooney live up to his potential is a ridiculous question. He was world class his medals and goals speak for themselves!

[@kirklewis8146]

Simone forgot Rooney start play at 16 in the EPL

[@NoahLookman9191]

A valid question given he basically retired at 31

[@kieranj1332]

@@NoahLookman9191not really when he was at the highest stage at 16, has had a longer career at top level than 99% stars you can think if😂😂😂

[@henryb160]

@@kieranj1332 Yeah, Rooney was setting the world on fire at an age other players are still cleaning the seniors boots after training.

[@user-yu7ko6do4k]

What has retirement age got to do with being world class????@@NoahLookman9191

[@markdavis8430]

Rooney is and was world class Simple as that ✌️

[@leemccord4451]

I'm a man utd fan and believe he's not a manager just like Frank but there's a place in football for him what a player wish we had 11 of him now

[@leemccord4451]

Brilliant these guys talk sense rooney was an animal that knew what it was to play for man utd he had his flaws but done the business on the pitch

[@morf-hq5if]

Graeme absolutely bang on in terms of what Celtic and Rangers would bring to the English league!

[@LilHazTV]

Simon and souness souness and Simon 😂😂

[@peter4363]

6 years? Try 10 years Graeme. 2003 when he joined Utd he could get in any side, 2013 he won the league with Van Persie, he was fecking brilliant.

[@richard_1111]

I love simon cos he's forthright

[@timovk]

he went to everton before america

[@shaka7594]

Saw Wayne play at OT live in his first 10 years, 100% committed player, even on a rare off day, he ran and ran for the cause..

[@terryomara9403]

Rooney was one of the best for england ever He was World class

[@philthatcher6111]

I'd argue there was a slight drop off when he turned 26/27. From a physical point he lost a yard of pace and bulked a little too.17 to 25, for that 9 year period he was the best striker in the world for me.

[@JRA73]

Rooney was a beast of a player, brilliant for England but did not reach his full potential. YNWA!!

[@sijones501]

People always mention the headline of “Birmingham were 6th when Wayne took over” - yes they were, but they were also 2 points ahead of 17th. So this “6th” was a bit of a false position. Not with standing, Wayne still didn’t do a good job there.

[@beejj6190]

Unbelievable all round as a teenager. Great for Man U (sacrificed his star potential to Ronaldo) and technically excellent. Never produced on that level for England after his first tourrnament.. and no, he wasn't injured for all of them.

[@paulstone3209]

Love Graeme, top footballer, hard as nails, but really a scarf!!!!!

[@mikebartlett723]

World class from 16-30. If he'd done it 20-34 people wouldn't talk about it. Man Utd and England and all time top scorer (in his time). Won everything at club level including x5 league titles. Was played all over the park because he had the ability and ethic to sacrifice himself for the good of the team. Mixed sublime skill with being hard as nails. Pointing out lack of success with England doesn't make a difference. England are useless they have won't anything in 58 YEARS despite have the richest clubs in the world to grow and develop their players in.

[@flankspeed]

On the topic of Michael Beale, as a Rangers fan, I would've preferred it if he'd been able to speak in complete sentences when he got interviewed.

[@scotta5098]

We need Wayne Rooney on up front

[@robertlee6338]

Even today if Celtic and/or Rangers paid 350m each to join Championship with 200m going to Championship clubs, 90m to League 1 and 60m to league 2 and 3. With higher proportional compensation for League 1 team missing out on Championship promotion. It would be voted in easily. If both joined at the same time, can anyone see EFL teams saying no to 600m (300mx2) Celtic/Rangers would make 350m within 5 years outside of normal PL/EFL earning from bigger shirt/stadium/other sponserships and extra commercial activities!

[@kanewingfield6441]

With the finances now and travel options it should be all British teams in leagues combined. Fairest way

[@hustler666100]

nonsense

[@dennispepperack2973]

My fave comedy team hehe

[@Psykotiks]

Wow what is this conversation he could of lasted a bit longer but thats it other than that he was one if the best strikers if not THEE best England have ever produced

[@brendanbishop3684]

Wayne mentioned his struggles with alcohol which he kept to himself for many years until he retired, worked his ass off for utd, Bale retired early and I presume he was a little fitter/faster than Wayne.

[@skippymillward]

He won everything and broke records along the way Enough said

[@elainekerslake6865]

Rangers and Celtic ground share....good idea. Massive crowds. Their reserves could play in the Scots prem . 22 clubs in our Prem is not a problem. 4 extra games.

[@UnitedForever1878.]

Finished his career as England and Manchester United’s top goalscorer. Can’t believe they are even having this conversation

[@Tomtomjameson]

If only the lad got scouted for Liverpool not Everton, Rooney and Gerrard would have been nuts

[@ancelottiseyebrow5206]

I know it’s happened before, but considering Rooney is a massive Everton fan I’d have been shocked if he played for them

[@Tomtomjameson]

@@ancelottiseyebrow5206 Yeah it's like Carra though! Everton fan but became a red!

[@jworpington]

Anyone who watched Euro 2004 will know that despite reaching world class level, Rooney still didn’t fulfil his potential. He was one of the best of his generation. He could have been one of the best of all time.

[@adesanyasnipple5338]

Graeme is a man’s man. Doesn’t want to sit there and gossip over another man. Simon is the English Arial Helwani

[@zepszip]

Simon and souness should buy a football club and get stuck in👌😂 would be a great !

[@mrpotato442]

For anyone doubting Rooneys Career and credentials please see below Manchester United Premier League: 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2010-11, 2012-13[443] FA Cup: 2015-16[444] EFL Cup: 2005-06,[84] 2009-10,[445] 2016-17[446] FA Community Shield: 2007,[447] 2010,[448] 2011,[449] 2016[450] UEFA Champions League: 2007-08[451] UEFA Europa League: 2016-17[452] FIFA Club World Cup: 2008[453] England U17 UEFA European Under-17 Championship Bronze: 2002 Individual UEFA European Under-17 Championship Golden Player: 2002[454] PFA Players' Player of the Year: 2009-10[132] PFA Young Player of the Year: 2004-05,[455] 2005-06[456] PFA Fans' Player of the Year: 2005-06,[457] 2009-10[458] PFA Team of the Year: 2005-06 Premier League,[456] 2009-10 Premier League,[132] 2011-12 Premier League[459] FWA Footballer of the Year: 2009-10[460] Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year: 2005-06, 2009-10[461] Manchester United Players' Player of the Year: 2009-10[462] Manchester Goal of the Season: 2009-10 (v Arsenal, 31 January 2010), 2010-11 (vs. Manchester City, 12 February 2011), 2013-14 (vs. West Ham, 22 March 2014 )[463]

[@Olympiamaniac]

Celtic and rangers should be added to enter the championship absolutely, improves the future of the game

[@jaileach693]

Celtic and rangers should have came to the prem in 92/93. When both was on even playing field with the then prem teams. It would be too hard to integrate them now. Agree how can Bournemouth be worth more than both rangers and celtic it's a sad state of affairs

[@MrBCAM]

Great for Utd, poor for England in tournements.

[@Dannye70]

If you had to choose 11x of the same player to make a team Rooney would be my player, he had everything and apparently was a decent keeper too

[@aaronking2369]

What i would do to have a player like wayne at united again these current player's couldn't lace his boots

[@PALWE]

Rooney’s goal scoring record would have been even better but for sacrificing for Ronaldo. The same goes for benzema. That’s why they were both seen as better after Ronaldo left .

[@beefybreaker]

The answer is yes he did.

[@DhirajSingh-tk1pl]

A has been and a never was - watching for the humour

[@omabdulgani]

Rooney should have had a better career. He was naturally better than Cristiano Ronaldo.

[@kevobeney5308]

Who does Graeme think should be Liverpool's new manager?

[@neilporter9983]

He used to smoke & drink during his playing years! He really didnt reach his potential, esp when you consider how good he was when he burst onto the scene (see 18 yr old rooney for england v france Euro 2004). His ex-team mate Ronaldo is older than him & still playing!

[@blacklotus5364]

Was United and England's top goalscorer and captained both. Won every trophy you can win in the top flight. If Rooney didn't reach his potential, then your man Gerrard definitely didn't. 😆 Also if he didn't, no other English player in the last 50 years has, either.

[@stew4240]

Lol still says Simon and sourness on KZbin

[@Biffoaussie85]

Rooney is a top10 players ever kinda guy!!

[@user-mk3mu2ws8x]

I’d prefer if we could kick the welsh teams into the SPL. Would make that league stronger and not interfere with ours.

[@Wrioncnkiye]

If Rooney left my team United after 2008 or 2009 and played for Barcelona with Messi, we won't even start debating if he was a world-class player.

[@chrisbax760]

Who’s debating if he was world class? He’s probably the best footballer to come out of England

[@Wrioncnkiye]

@@chrisbax760 In his generation, yes, though England also had Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard. Terry, Sol Campbell and Rio were excellent too. But that 18 yr old Rooney was a proper monster.

[@hustler666100]

Where would he play?