Dielectric bias system

How important and effective are the battery-powered dielectric sources on high-end cables?

[@funny0000000]

"Bill doesn't do anything that doesn't make sense" is true. The battery idea makes perfect sense to me as well. More SKU's means more money.

[@digggerrjones7345]

I read an interview with Bill Low a few years back. At that time, he was using an Ayre source and preamp, Pass power amps, and Vandersteen speakers!

[@ThinkingBetter]

It's called snake oil margin. Your profit can be insane if you add some pseudo science snake oil nonsense. The audio cable industry is good at this. It's sort of funny that audio is so low frequency and rather easy to conduct through a few feet of cable in a home and ignorant consumers spend 1000s of Dollars on cables playing music that went through industry standard much longer cables in the studios around this planet. I wonder what power cables and other cables are used at Octave Records.

[@richardsoffice9176]

What does SKU stand for, please?

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@richardsoffice9176 It means "Stock Keeping Unit" and here it simply means a unique product type. You can cover more market by having more SKUs both by cable types (e.g. power cables, RCA cables etc.), by tier types (e.g. essential, mid, high-end) and length. AudioQuest have chosen to make the maximum revenue out of audio cables by targeting those gullible audiophiles who will pay whatever for the highest tier cables. PS Audio does the same thing. PAUL'S REFERENCE AudioQuest Dragon ZERO Speaker Cable cost $84,200.00 USD for 10 feet of it. Can it win in a blind-test against a US$30 10 feet cable from Amazon? Honestly speaking, it can't and that includes using the most resolving system. I've had a role as professional listen tester (part time of my job) for several years.

[@funny0000000]

@@richardsoffice9176 By SKU's I mean just more products to sell. The more options you offer the better chance you have at offering something the customer wants. Some want a battery and some don't want a battery. Some want copper, gold, silver, oxygen free cable, and on and on and on and on and on. If some authority says cables work better painted red everyone will buy red cables.

[@finscreenname]

The interconnect cables you all were talking about in a video or 2 ago cost $650 each, to start and go up from there. You all are in deep man.

[@tomw7043]

I agree-save your money! I considered these cables a while ago and opted for the Audioquest Rocket 33s Bi-wire cables. While the Rocket 33s were not cheap, at $780.00 for a 10' pair, it was still a $700.00 savings over the 88s. They sound amazing, and I noticed no difference between the two cables during my audition.

[@gioponti6359]

.. though rocket 33 and 88 differ in more than just the DBS

[@Evil_Peter]

I saw a test of a pair of AudioQuest battery bias speaker cables (I don't remember the exact model) and it was clearly shown by measurements that the bias acted like an antenna and introduced noise from the environment. Definitely something that you don't want a cable to do.

[@gioponti6359]

thats a coax topology that is only connected to the battery - difficult to explain how this would add an antenna that isn’t there before.

[@richardsoffice9176]

Radio frequency signals, there is quite a spectrum, can be induced into any metallic object. Usually, but not always, they will not produce a problem. These are well above human hearing, almost always, and are therefore inaudible. Heterodyning MAY have an effect, at times.

[@user-ks5bx6qy5z]

It's true -- the added electrostatic-field wire that's makes the DBS system possible is an antenna that capacitively couples RF into the system. For many years this weakness meant that while DBS was clearly effective and reduced cable dielectric involvement and distortion, the overall effect was 2 or 3 steps forward, and 1 step backwards. However, almost 10 years ago, Niagara designer Garth Powell developed a simple 'noise-trap' circuit that's included in the external DBS pack. When one plugs and unplugs the DBS pack, the obvious immediate improvement with the pack is only due to this effective wire termination -- one hears the reduction in RF. To hear the effect of the dielectric-biasing itself, one must have 2 cables, one with DBS attached for 2 weeks, and one without DBS for at least 2 weeks (no different than electronics and speaker crossovers requiring a bias voltage for 2 weeks in order to approach optimum). That comparison will make it obvious that yes, 'forming' the cable's dielectric is effective and meaningful. Sincerely, Bill Low

[@mr.george7687]

A battery powered speaker cable... Now I've heard it all !!!

[@36karpatoruski]

I hear they’re working on cold fusion powered speaker cables. Reportedly have a spectacular Smedley-Cogswell index.

[@jC-kc4si]

I prefer Spacely Sprocket.

[@stimpy1226]

One of the most important things that I’ve learned about any listening session is not only to warm up your entire system for at least an hour and THEN exercise your system for at least another half hour to allow all of the active components, capacitors, etc. to reach its optimal state so that the music will bloom. I doubt I will ever buy cables with a battery attached but I’m not going to poo poo them unless I actually listen to them for quite some time before I make a final judgment. I would like to hear Bill’s Lowes’ response as to why most of today’s comments and Paul’s response are so negative.

[@richardsoffice9176]

People have different ideas, reach different conclusions. Then: Ego is involved. "My ideas are different, must be better, in fact, the best!" Colors the hearing, perception, conclusions?

[@stimpy1226]

@@richardsoffice9176 totally agree

[@maxhirsch7035]

Paul's response is only negative in terms of his hearing a difference between dbs and non-dbs function! He largely praises AQ's cables here, calls himself a huge fan of them, even by implication the more expensive ones, and makes it quite clear that PSA respects them enough to use them in everything they do. As someone who largely uses expensive (but not the top end) AQ cable with all of my gear, I'm not sure I'd hear the difference dbs is supposed to make, but nevertheless highly value the cables' sound overall.

[@user-ks5bx6qy5z]

Thanks for the invitation :-) Please see my reply above to @Evil_Peter about why quickly connecting and disconnecting a DBS pack is not a valid way to evaluate biasing a dielectric -- as with your electronics and speaker crossovers, it takes weeks to properly 'form' a dielectric. As for negative comments, nothing in this thread is as no-difference as was once commonly claimed about amplifiers. Len Feldman's amp reviews always concluded with basically saying that all competent amps sounded the same. Cable controversy made it safe for the world to acknowledge that all amps do not sound the same -- maybe someday a new 'frontier' or 'edge' will make the world safe for cables to be more universally acknowledged. All I ever ask is that people please listen -- to not do the equivalent of protesting a movie they haven't seen. Paul testified to his experience, I fully accept that he reported his truth.

[@scottborenstein8291]

I have a pair of Audioquest CV8 speaker cables with the DBS on them, they listed for $800 and I bought them on clearance for $330. The DBS is only on their premium cables so the cable is already of very high quality to begin with. I was using Audioquest GBC which were fine. All I can say with the A/B comparison the improvement with the CV8 is very noticeable., mainly the noise floor, more dynamics and clarity of the sound. It does sound like snake oil, but to my ears the cables are wonderful and I’m happy I bought them. To each his own, people can use lamp cord if they want and be happy, but I believe cables are vitally important in the system and you should get the best you can afford. And no I don’t work for Audioquest.

[@amrw8447]

I also have CV8.. I upgraded from Blue Jeans speaker cables and definitely a difference specifically in the mids and highs!

[@scottborenstein8291]

@@amrw8447Yes, they are also well built cables. It does depend on the quality of the rest of the system, you can’t put lipstick on a pig. I can see the doubt about the DBS, but whatever, my ears tell me they are great.

[@davidt8438]

Thank you for being honest about the cable inquiry.

[@gtrguyinaz]

There was a speaker cable that addressed this issue… Magnan speaker cables..They were considered best in class in the 1990s.. I still use them and have never heard anything better..

[@RichTeer]

As someone who (unfortunately*) hears differences between audio cables, but is also skeptical of claims made by cable manufacturers, I appreciate your candour, Paul! * I say unfortunately because it means that I can't just use cheap crappy cable and get on with it; I have to spend $$ on cables to get the most out of my system.

[@oneemotiva4975]

Hi, I do have the AQ K2's which are incredible cables, I tested with our the DBS connected and sounded really good, but then I re connected the cable to the DBS and I believe I did hear a slightly brighter and richer sound coming out of them. I am not sure if it is my imagination or really sounded better, but I just left it connected. I also use AQ on all my cables, that is Speakers, ToS Link, RCA's, XLR''s. I did tested the Gobel, Kimber cables and the Crystal cables, which as well sound incredible.

[@lexicon612]

I can attest to the recommended USB cable for the MKII DAC is Audioquest Coffee & for the MKII to the amp Andioquest Water XLR. Both with the dielectric. A Truely magical combination and 100% my reference cables. Combined with GR Research 12TC speaker cable and a pair of AR Classic 30's. My reference system for the rest of my life. Possible a TEKTON speaker upgrade down the road at some point. Keep in mind that Paul's level is stratosphere so his experience is going to be different than yours or mine.

[@royhanks1695]

I worked for the government for 35 years as an electrical engineer, on a wide range of exotic projects ranging from DC to 20GHz+ (impulse radar, 100pS X-ray framing cameras). Every imaginable configuration of coax, twisted pair, strip line, high voltage charge lines, etc. The only time dialectic non linearities was an issue was in magnetically loaded shock lines, that is specifically used to sharpen the leading edge of a sub nanosecond edge. So I would call bullshit on the concept of biasing the dielectric.

[@hanssipkes8179]

I,ve got a simiular product from a german company called Inakustik. There is no battery, they use a special powered cable driver with the weight and size of a mid priced amp. When used you can hear a little effect if it has a musical advantage I still have my doubts

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

Great answer. People should buy whatever cables they like as long it is done with disposable income. If there is even a hint of can I afford this, then don't.

[@flex-cx9bi]

The technology is easy. By polarizing a slightly conductive dielectric, free electrons (electrostatic charge) are attracted to the positive node of the dielectric (not the positive connector). If it helps the sound? I do not know. But there is a solid technical thought behind polarized dielectric layers.

[@richardsoffice9176]

AudioQuest espouses an, `air dielectric.'

[@flex-cx9bi]

@@richardsoffice9176 Yes. Conductivity of air is 10^9 to 10^15 Ω·m depending on humidity. I assume you have got a spark into your finger when touching something? The reason is that air as anything else have some level of conductivity. Only vacuum have zero conductivity. Plasma tweeters are using air as a conductor.

[@gioponti6359]

I have troubles to follow - „no difference noticed“ could have many reasons. „small difference noticed“, and a description of wherein small to negligible differences lie is another story to me. And there’s a number of things that make small but valuable differences, perhaps not to a cost that everyone accepts. And it is interesting to see how everyone cracks up since 20yrs on “powered” speaker cables, but literally none here in the comments section has actually tried to A/B battery on/off. (Have done that on an AQ USB cable: quite audible. I have old non-DBS AQ speaker cables, so I cannot report about differences heared).

[@Alan-im1ez]

1:16 (Wink) Message received Paul 😂 Jk. Thanks for the great vids

[@ptg01]

Wow.... honest response !

[@BradfordWarner]

The new AQ analog interconnected are amazing in the mythical creatures family. Never have I heard such impact from a single cable change as from DAC to preamp with these.

[@banginghats2]

I love Kimber cables. Just glad I bought them when you could still get bargains on ebay, because they are too expensive for me now.

[@davewin1792]

Their Hero line is very good and offers excellent value and performance for the price.

[@nobelstone9714]

Just a guess but I suspect the claim is it takes time for the bias to take affect. If so then the AB test is from biased to unbiased. But the charge may stay there for a while after the bias is turned off meaning making an AB test difficult given how poor our sonic memory is, especially if it takes hours. This, of course assumes the bias matters. The only way you might make the test if my assumptions are correct is two identical cables, one with bias on and another with it off a long time and then quickly switching cables. That might work all though it can't be an instantaneous AB test.

[@richardsoffice9176]

Yes, I called AudioQuest & was told that there was a relatively brief, "burn ~ in," not too long, a few days, or weeks? Not too long, as I recall. Not a conductor, rather a steady ~ state, perhaps small voltage. Makes some sense, perhaps, blocks RFI, EMI. Let's recall, that we, "exist," in a sea of radio, television, cell phone, etc., high frequency signals. Some, `natural radiation!' Giga Hertz! Usually don't affect us, adversely. There was a story, years ago, about a man who was always on his cell phone. He developed brain cancer, died. "Everything in moderation, I recommend!" 😁😄😜🤪🤗🤔🤭

[@user-ks5bx6qy5z]

Thank you -- you are dead right! Please see my replies above to @Evil_Peter, @oneemotiva4975, and @stimpy1226 about why quickly connecting and disconnecting a DBS pack is not a valid way to evaluate biasing a dielectric -- as with your electronics and speaker crossovers, it takes weeks to properly 'form' a dielectric. It's not that the "charge may stay there for a while" so much as it that biasing polarizes the dielectric, which then takes weeks to return to amorphous. While a DBS field is electrostatic, this fade-away effect is similar to after "demagnetizing" a phono cartridge -- which of course doesn't demagnetize the phono cartridge or it wouldn't work anymore. The "demagnetizing" process reorients the magnetization. After sometime, a new "demagnetizing" process is required to again reorient the magnetization. Sincerely, Bill Low

[@PSA78]

There was someone a while back that tested (measured) them, and they were worse than (I believe) everything else. I've tested different cables several times and they can be noticed even on rather basic system, but the point of diminishing returns start Way earlier than cable manufacturers would like.

[@ThinkingBetter]

The reason this is a poor idea is that the battery serves as the AC connector to ground the noise from the shielding and a simple short-circuit is a better AC noise conductor.

[@5starmaniac]

Go Furutech all way!! I've heard cables from all major manufactures, and Furutech is the best, slso measureing the best;

[@glenncurry3041]

After duck taping a car battery to each of my speaker cables, no difference heard. Though without the ability to start our cars, we sit home and listen more!

[@gioponti6359]

not sure whether this is some sort of a joke, but 1) the electric field required to provide a static dielectric displacement is proportional to the voltage (12v being low) 2) you would need to appropriately configure the cable with an additional central conductor and a coaxial 2nd one that wraps around it and the speaker wires, but none connected to the speaker wires..

[@edd2771]

Does Bill hear a difference with a Power Plant in and out?

[@richardsoffice9176]

Probably not; AudioQuest makes Power Conditioners, Niagara I think they're called. Some are expensive, cost about as much or more than Paul's Regenerators! Their engineer, Garth Powell, feels that his equipment is superior. I personally don't understand how; Paul's equipment, converting the wall sine wave to DC, then producing a pure AC sine wave, makes sense to me. Just as soon as I win the two billion dollar lottery, I'll build a large room, rather a Concert Hall, as Ken Fritz did, buy all of this stuff, & compare all of it! {I imagine that it will all sound great!} Some people, such as Jay, come close to doing this, today!

[@rudolfglaser9664]

With electronic music, noise is often part of the work. Will I hear less of it when using such cables (with dropouts)?

[@net_news]

this is a good one 🙌

[@BobGeogeo]

Paul, did you coat the battery contacts with snake oil? If not, you'd be missing out. 🙃

[@PanAmStyle]

I compared an AQ DBS cable (maybe Rocket 88 - can’t recall) to a Wire World cable that cost about $400 cheaper. The WW cable was clearly better in my system. I do like AQ power products.

[@mrronenza]

Great honesty here. When you talk about Battery "Thing" You don't look strait to the camera. Love your opinion. And I own AudioQuest cables myself.

[@geoff37s57]

Paul, you cannot hear any difference with or without battery connected, because there is no difference. The only requirement for speaker cable carrying audio frequencies is twin insulated copper cable of sensible gauge to minimise added impedance. As someone with qualifications in Radio Frequency Engineering I can tell you cable construction becomes important at frequencies way, way above audio frequencies. Anyone spending big on speaker cables will probably hear an improvement, but nobody else will. Whatever makes you happy.

[@NoEgg4u]

"As someone with qualifications in Radio Frequency Engineering I can tell you cable construction becomes important at frequencies way, way above audio frequencies. Anyone spending big on speaker cables will probably hear an improvement, but nobody else will." You have qualifications? What are they? Why do they matter? Which interconnects have you used for listening tests? Please name every component in the stereo that you used for your listening tests. The stereo is the lab equipment. That is why you need to name every box in the stereo. How did you choose the songs that you used for your listening test? I am qualified in envy trolling. My qualifications tell me that you will either not provide the answers to my questions, or will make excuses for not answering my questions. My qualifications also tell me that you never did a proper listening test, or any listening test.

[@janinapalmer8368]

😂😂😂😂😂😂.... you're funny ..!

[@tobiaxelsson]

As someone also with qualifications in RF and EMI (although it was some time ago) I can tell you there is something called time domain that RF engineers tend to ignore all the time or how it correlate to frequency domain (or rather what doesn't correlate). And that just happens to be the domain you would need for calculating the effects of dialectric (Maxwell is timedomain stuff) or usually simulation since it's quite problematic to measure. The parameter that's of interest is the energy transfer or what's described by the poynting vector and outside the conductor that would be mostly B-field and a smaller E-field (S=my0 E x B). I don't like the solution since I would prefer a choice of a better dialectric, but in theory the E-field generated by the battery would saturate the dialectric and thus interfer less with the field from the conductor (dialectric can hold charge as in very evident in capacitors). So is there a difference? Absolutely. Is it audible? No idea. But modding my own 100$ cables based on improving the B-field interaction between the conductors was suprisingly noticeable.

[@geoff37s57]

@@tobiaxelsson Search for this interesting test Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference? | Sound & Vision

[@tobiaxelsson]

@@geoff37s57 Just did and I fail to see how it's related to what I was talking about. So they based their test on some random parameters based on impedance. What I'm talking about is closer to can you hear a difference with braiding/twisting the conductors, does the angle between them matter, does increasing the distance matter, different dialectrics etc. It's rather basic EMF/EMI, but I can understand it might sounds like magic for people outside the field. Personally I had good results for cheap (soundstage went from 2D to 3D), but your milage might vary.

[@hugobloemers4425]

I think it is safe (

[@FabriG-yd5ft]

When you start using a cable with the dbs system, you readily notice how noise floor has dropped significantly and dynamics increased. Made this experience years ago, after years having used King Cobra switching to Columbia. I remember my brother was also present and both of us were impressed.

[@NoEgg4u]

Paul, I believe that the batteries maintain some property within the cables, when the cables are not in use. Turn off the batteries, and do not play that stereo for a week or two (not sure of the time period). Then when you play that stereo, you might hear a difference. If not playing the stereo for a while is not an option, then replace the cables. For the ones you remove, turn off the batteries. Then swap the cables, again, in a couple of weeks. I was once told the answer to that by Audioquest personnel, when I was placing an order. The store conferenced in the Audioquest personnel (two of them) -- and they had no problems answering any questions. But it was at least a decade ago. Those brain cells have degraded. You are good friends with William E. Lowe. Please ask him. It will end the guessing.

[@janinapalmer8368]

As a qualified entity in audio engineering I can think of a case for " exciting" the dielectric at a very high frequency ( like in a tape machine ) but not polarising the dielectric

[@gioponti6359]

you might see that excitation in the audio signal, and you might hear some frequency difference products .. mind there are amps with feedback and not much of a frequency restriction..

[@slerched]

I would praise Audioquest too if I got their cables for free... wink wink. Might even start a KZbin channel to talk about them if they do. :D

[@tubefreeeasy]

I’ve heard it reduces the burn-in time. I don’t plan to buy expensive cables, just pure silver ones. I can easily wait 21 days.

[@laurentzduba1298]

To my ears, it works, but does it have to be really expensive?🤔

[@ThinkingBetter]

Thanks for being honest Paul, but perhaps you forgot you are selling "PAUL'S REFERENCE AudioQuest Dragon ZERO Speaker Cable" with this feature costing $84,200.00 USD for 10 feet of it (bi-wire version). And are batteries included for this bias system? I'm SURE there is no good scientific reason for this to be of any value. The battery taken out is effectively making the shielding AC disconnected and should theoretically cause more noise. But because it's so low impedance to begin with, Paul is right, you wont hear the difference. So it's dumb to spend $84,200.00 USD on a cable and leave the shielding floating. I hope PS Audio is making good business, but I also hope it's not by selling this cable with such inflated profit margin...to be honest.

[@spacemissing]

Keep DC away from speakers.

[@hugobloemers4425]

That's what the dielectric does. (Referring to your statement and not implying that I think DC Dielectric bias has benefits or not)

[@ThinkingBetter]

No, it’s pure snake oil. Period. Technically, the shielding that has a DC offset is simply using the battery as the "AC conductor" much like a DC charged capacitor would conduct AC through it. If you remove the battery you make the shielding disconnected and of course that will yield extra noise and might fool some people to think the DC offset is doing magic LOL. Rather, just short-circuit the battery terminals and your shielding is working fine. It's therefore a sophisticated case of snake oil even worse than when some other cable company claims that audio cables need burn-in. Paul was too ambiguous in this video in declaring it snake oil. You will always find someone who will say that whatever expensive snake oil sounds better because he is imagining it from his own listening experience. Snake oil audio product manufacturers selling at insane margins always stay away from blind-tests because they actually indeed are aware that what they are selling is not credible and will fail proper scrutiny.

[@sharkking5233]

It's designed to keep the speaker cables concentric. Paul actually did a video on this once. Basically like having your cables "warmed up" like they've been running for a couple hours all the time....I believe 😂

[@hugobloemers4425]

Ahhhh, what you say it prevents the electrons falling to the bottom? Something like what happens with fresh orange juice that you keep in the fridge ;)

[@sharkking5233]

Maybe.. I would refresh myself on the subject before I went any further. Something I haven't thought about in a couple years.

[@M-io1sb]

As per the usual snake oil comments, people rubbish other peoples observations because it doesn't fit their perceived reality. I have AQ Water xlr's and it is noticable if the battery is not connected. The sound is less focussed.

[@geoff37s57]

Let’s see if this comment also gets deleted. Look up null test by Ethan winer

[@JJ-no2ob]

More cable babble with unobtanium materials AND now with detachable battery ? Ha ha yes … “a fool and his money is easily parted”.

[@JimClark-rw2zw]

The more you spend the better it sounds. As if spending more alters the laws of physics. Audiophile science isn't science.

[@hoobsgroove]

it's foolery it's nonsense as long as they're made decent cables not using some cheap wire makes no difference, and it is at the right impedance of 50 ohms or lower. and 75 to 93 ohms for digital. nothing else makes any difference except maybe degrade the sound maybe that's what you're hearing😂

[@gioponti6359]

50 ohm impedance in a LF speaker cable? Are you sure what you are talking about?

[@laurentzduba1298]

To my ears, it works, but does it have to be really expensive?🤔

[@user-ks5bx6qy5z]

Good question. To enable DBS, there must be an additional conductor (or two) inside the cable, the custom DBS battery back with its 6 batteries, the 'stressed' premium capacitor that acts as an RF noise trap terminating the DBS wire, some extra labor in the cable preparation. So yes, it costs money, and as with all audio, retail distribution is THE major cost adder. I do not take this expense and cost lightly -- in order for a cable to be worth putting DBS on it, DBS must be a more cost-effective improvement than anything else we know how to do. This is why even though the newish Black Beauty interconnect costs a little more than the previous Water model, Black Beauty does not have DBS because Black Beauty's ZERO-Tech construction, graphene in the carbon-based mesh network, and the RF draining superiority of the copper-plated brass plug barrels cumulatively are more cost-effective -- though DBS does feature among the improvements in the next-up Pegasus model. Sincerely, Bill Low