Shelly Gen3 Mini Smart Relays & Power Monitoring - ESP32-C3

[@anthonycalia1317]

I have to say that of all the youtube providers specializing in Home Automation, your channel is consistently the most informative. I always learn something. Keep up the good work!

[@digiblurDIY]

Thanks! I always try to teach something in various videos when I can with various products.

[@matejfoltyn]

I already have the 1-mini installed behind a light switch and it works like a charm! Really happy with the smaller size and even the price is so reasonable!!!

[@FrankGraffagnino]

great review. I like that shelly makes those header pins accessible on some of their units but we need it on all of them! We need more hardware we can control locally!

[@digiblurDIY]

Yes, I was sad to see the little header gone. I'll be sticking to the plus 1 lines myself as they are more amps anyways.

[@MarkEichin]

You're right, if they could make a compact plug with the power monitor unit, I would scatter them about the house, and keep a few extras around for friends to dip their toe in to power monitoring - or just to help them get real numbers on parasitic power without having to leave a (functional-but-)ugly kill-a-watt around. The low-current units might be suitable for lighting-only runs, there was apparently a recent update to the US NEC for lines with 10A breakers [and no outlets, only direct connections.] That's pretty niche and I'm not sure anyone's started doing it in the wild yet :-)

[@digiblurDIY]

Yup, I saw that update. Too bad these are 10A. I heard the update still requires 14 AWG though and the 10A breakers are expensive.

[@ronm6585]

Pretty cool. Thanks Travis.

[@digiblurDIY]

You bet

[@ecoheliguy]

Not only behind a receptacle, you could install these inside the appliance.

[@digiblurDIY]

Kind of like we did with the CT clamps on dryers.

[@ecoheliguy]

@@digiblurDIY and were the 8amp limitations of the relays can be really useful in North American markets. Like range hoods and other fans.

[@oscargraveland]

@@ecoheliguy You read my mind. Mine is inside a floor fan. It let's HA control ON/OFF and fanspeed setting over IR remote ( Shelly works as the feedback)

[@justmeEnglandUK]

How about a update on the breaker board energy monitoring any new products available for multiple breaker feeds

[@terryuland6502]

I built a ESP32 based device to monitor current to my aerobic septic system using current transformers, and this certainly would have been handy to have, but I am very concerned about the lack of accuracy. The hz output is just broken, even a cheap kill-a-watt clone can get that down to 0.01 accuracy. It would be nice to compare those voltage and amp readings against a couple of Fluke meters and see how close they are, and see how much it differs across different devices of the same model. TP-Link Kasa has a current monitoring smart plug which easily integrates into HA, but it too has accuracy issues -- I can have two plugs right next to each other and one reports 118v and the other 121v. Finally, how stable are these devices on dirty power? Imagine you have a decade old generator hooked up chugging along with it's massive voltage sags when things kick on. Will it "freak out" the readings like you observed with over current?

[@MarkEichin]

Maybe look at that UPS output with a scope? I've seen a lot of weird signals even from "true sine wave" UPSes, let alone the bad-old-trapezoid-days...

[@WilliamCasolare]

Excited for when they get the new ones UL listed. Until then will be sticking with the not UL, not inside my walls approach.

[@digiblurDIY]

I don't think they would pass with the 8A rating.

[@YKSGuy]

According to the Shelly reddit there is no work or plans to get the minis UL certified at this time.

[@WilliamCasolare]

@@YKSGuy oof - that is a huge L for me. It is one thing to put non-UL devices in play outside the wall but putting them in-chain with code regulated wiring is a nonstarter for me. Insurance companies get nice and iffy when these rules get broken.

[@digiblurDIY]

@WilliamCasolare what area are you in? US here and I spoke with local insurance agents before and they said they don't even look at UL stuff anymore on the residential side. It is hard enough for them to prove in court on other intentional fires as it is.

[@WilliamCasolare]

@@digiblurDIY Northeast US - all national homeowners insurance companies still have the requirement listed and if an inspector decides to point at an unlisted device as the cause they can choose to deny the claim. Regardless of what an agent or customer service rep or whatnot might say, it's still on their terms and conditions and that increases the risk profile too high for my liking. If they're going to ignore it in practice, which they very well might be doing, they should officially remove it from their T&C's.

[@RiccardoAzzolino]

Have the grey (in my breaker Line) and red one (as switch and power meter) in my home Assistant system 👍 Zend back the blue one cause NO power metering 😢 Auto update via HA love it.

[@realitydog8640]

Makes me wonder about sizing shelly devices when connecting them to motorized appliances. There is a difference between running amps and locked rotor amps. Will frequent starts break down the shelly relay?

[@Saturn2888]

It says 8A at 240V which is more than enough power for a standard 15A 120V outlet. The 30V is different because it's DC, not AC.

[@Saturn2888]

The one that's 16A with no relay is insane. Close to 4000W of power you can push through it? That's more than my 20A outlets!

[@oscargraveland]

Don't think it works that way. 8A limit is still an 8A limit on 120V outlet.

[@ivlis32]

I played around with the stock firmware for a bit, spent 30 minutes trying to figure out which ports I need to open in order for HA integration to work, but still couldn't. Gave up and flashed Tasmota on it. The process is super easy. Unfortunately it's not possible to OTA esphome because they use different boot mechanisms. Another drawback of the stock firmware is that it sends updates every 15 seconds and it's impossible to send an update when consumption suddenly changes.

[@anlpereira]

There is a way to calibrate the current and frequency through YAML. Look in the ESPHome documentations. I'm developing a board like this for me. Great video

[@digiblurDIY]

I mentioned yes with open source you can change the calibrations, I was showing the stock firmware.

[@anlpereira]

@@digiblurDIY great video. Thank you very much

[@jefffrilot9667]

I've been wanting this for a while, a simple power monitor. I've gone through several plugs where the relay eventually died. Most were killed by summer brownouts. A simple plug where I don't have to remove the receptacle would be nice though.

[@digiblurDIY]

They could have done a NC relay instead of NO but the simplicity of it is nice. Hopefully we see more from others as well.

[@stufq]

So if relay is dead why not remove relay, "Hardwire" it remove relay from firmware and use it as power monitor only?

[@jefffrilot9667]

@@stufq these were cheap not easily disassembled plugs flashed with tasmota using tuyacutter.

[@chrislambe400]

Shelly relays beats everything on size every time. In Europe we don't have those giant wallboxes like in North America. Compactness really plays a role here. Sonoff ZBMINI or Aqara T1 or Moes are all so huge compared to Shelly. So big that I am having a little trouble extending a Zigbee mesh across three floors of my home. I really have to think where can the two Zigbee relays I want per floor actually fit. Might just install some of them with no switch or load connected in the ceiling. One of my Shelly Mini Gen3 handles 15 BLE thermometer/humidity (LYWSD03MMC Xiaomi) without breaking a sweat.

[@digiblurDIY]

And here I am thinking our boxes are small. I have been swapping several of mine to deeper boxes and/or jumping up a gang to help with the fill ratios and ease of things.

[@djvincon]

How do you use it with the BLE meters?

[@dream4magi]

The power differs between shelly and the plug type meter maybe due to power factor calculation. The plug type power meter has ability to calculate the power factor therefore showing the real power. The Shelly shows the apparent power only.

[@digiblurDIY]

It wasn't a big difference, no massive faults there. The only thing odd was the Hz. It wouldn't show up as 60hz on the inverter or even mains AC.

[@dream4magi]

@@digiblurDIY There will be big difference measuring different kind of loads. I once measure a notebook adapter and got a power factor of 0.5 .

[@RiggerBrew]

I agree, 16a switching is what I'd feel good about. Think I will get the PowerMonitor and add it to a few plugs as I need to start tracking power usage for my small farm business.

[@digiblurDIY]

Yup... the weak link issue there.

[@joshbean39]

3:55 if thats the case, if you're running 20A circuits to everywhere then I guess no smart plugs or regular shelly's? Or normal single pole 15A switches, I don't see it as an issue tbh considering I'm only switching low current loads with them.

[@digiblurDIY]

Most of mine are 15A circuits so 16A is perfect. Keeps the weakest link at the breaker.

[@chrislambe400]

In the case of socket power outlets you have to consider what maximun loud could somebody cause by plugging in something else. I don't have any such sockets. Conisder marking the sockets with the Max load.Maybe your eletrical code allows installing lower Ampere breakers. I do have plenty of lights where the load is always going to be rather tiny and have no worries installing 8A Shelly Minis for that.

[@Corgitronics]

The PM Mini Gen3 doesn't appear to have any safety certifications at all. Maybe I'll wait for that.

[@vegatube3818]

Nice Travis, what is the benefit of Tasmota? And how do you go from Tasmota to esphome?

[@digiblurDIY]

Being able to adjust an necessary calibrations, using matter if you want that, and several other things that open source firmware brings. I haven't used this one but I know some that have on other ESP32 conversions - github.com/esphome/esphome/pull/5535

[@jmr]

I'd be interested in a version of the power monitoring plug I could use on a dryer.

[@digiblurDIY]

Exactly! I know not everyone wants to do CT clamps, etc, 240v split phase stuff freaks people out which it should. Give them something they just plug in between the wall and dryer with the open Shelly firmware? Boom! Sold

[@looper6120]

I also experience the issue, wattage is not accurate at all... same issue with Shelly plug plus

[@TomNouri]

I ordered the blue one and was going to use it with my RV AC. I had not payed attention to the amps and looks like that’s not going to work. Will have to send it back. I do have the AC temporarily open and connected to a smart plug and that’s been working great. Was hoping for something I can also control via Bluetooth when no wifi is available. And suggestions?

[@digiblurDIY]

I don't know of any bluetooth ones.

[@kingskawn]

When those things use the wifi, is it better to create a separated wifi SSID and IP range only for the smart devices/relays ?

[@digiblurDIY]

That's what I do as it makes things easier to cut then from internet access, make plain Jane 2.4ghz ssids etc.

[@Morgon]

This may be a stupid question, as I'm not much of an electrician, but I have never seen this explicitly discussed anywhere -- is there a way to get individual outlet monitoring on each plug of a two-outlet receptacle..?

[@digiblurDIY]

US market?

[@Morgon]

@@digiblurDIY Yes, apologies for not specifying.

[@digiblurDIY]

@Morgon use a Shelly 2 and split that little pop off between the two screws.

[@Morgon]

@@digiblurDIY Thanks! On both sides, or just the hot? I haven’t seen any YT videos on installing a Shelly 2 with an outlet in this way… don’t suppose you have one that I just couldn’t find via search?

[@digiblurDIY]

@Morgon just the hot side. Neutral is fine as is. I did one like this but didn't video it.

[@oakfig]

Bruh, this is exactly what I been wanting! Is there a limit to how many of these we can set up?

[@digiblurDIY]

Probably not unless you wifi is just overwhelmed but there are ways to fix that.

[@t0mz3n75]

I am using a Shelly plus 1 AS a Garage door Opener with tasmota based on one of your old Videos. I would be nice to See a Video based on esphome.

[@digiblurDIY]

Yeah.. Those are a little easier to do with Esphome now for sure. These minis are difficult for some to swap over from stock though. Let me see what I can come up with.

[@ggeimer]

can this monitor voltage since it can’t handle the 50 A that I need for my air conditioner condenser? I would like to monitor the voltage of my air conditioning unit I have two issues. The power company can cycle it and the second one is I have GFCI and sometimes that trips the issue with this is when either condition occurs my air conditioner fan runs constantly circulating ambient air. I would like to automate my Nest to shut off the AC fan when power is off on my condenser. I don’t know why HVAC doesn’t monitor that because I would argue that running the fan at high-speed 24 seven uses a lot more power than cycling, the air conditioner in a normal operation. I would also like to be alerted when my GFCI breaker is open so that I know to reset it so that the air conditioner can function normally. I have automation using Google and Alexa to shut off my pool pump when the air conditioner unit is on and turn it back on again when the air conditioner cycles off, but I would also like to make sure that I just save power in general and not just run my fan pointlessly.

[@digiblurDIY]

It can but if voltage drops then of course it is offline. You could read it the status of it being offline to determine this.

[@gregpadberg1402]

Electric clothes dryer is on 30A circuit at 240V so no bueno there, oh well. Would be OK to monitor the clothes washing machine on a regular 15A circuit at 120V though.

[@digiblurDIY]

Same here. 240V30A is used for electric dryers here. I wasn't sure what was used in non split phase markets.

[@AtracBreezy]

Can skip all of this and flash an Emporia Vue 2 and just CT clamp everything at the breaker. That’s probably best for appliances.

[@digiblurDIY]

I know a guy who showed it once or twice 😎 awesome setup. Love mine.

[@unclerojelio6320]

I guess you could put one on each phase and then have HA add them together. Still, I’d rather have a plug version and I’d like to see them certified.

[@BillyJoeBob3691]

Just use a 2 pole contactor rated for more than what the dryer is, wire the relay up to the coil in series, and boom you’re done.

[@alexsinbb]

What will fail are the capacitors, like every Shelly 2.5 I have owned.

[@digiblurDIY]

I have a 2.5 outdoors in box right now. Still kicking along luckily but I have seen the pictures on their FB group of the failures.

[@alexsinbb]

@@digiblurDIYprobably a bad batch with the ChongX capacitors.

[@chrislambe400]

@@alexsinbb Thanks for the tip. I have 12 Shelly 2.5 I bought several years ago. 11 of them are sitting on my desk now. Edit: The ChongX Cap is the single horizontal 16v 100u might have to bend it up to see the ChongX branding on it. I might just replace them all with panasonics EEUFR1C101.

[@K-politic]

100% agree here. I do not know why they make in wall units under 15 amp. There are other uses but not in wall

[@digiblurDIY]

There are new NEC rules that will allow for 10A Lighting breakers but that's still short 2A.

[@digiblurDIY]

That's not how that works. You don't get 32 amps going on. You could take 4 15amp switches on a 15amp rated wires, 15amp breaker, etc, you'd still only have a 15 amp circuit and not 60 amps. Just like how you can have well over 200 amps of breakers in a 200A panel.

[@K-politic]

@@digiblurDIY I am aware of the NEC rules but I still do not like the fact that you have to be aware that a plug can not draw the full 15 amps because of a unit in a wall that could get overloaded. you may know because you installed it but could forget or someone come behind you and use the plug for a high draw item and fire.

[@tstrenuous10]

Just to dig up an old argument……@digiblurdiy you’re saying I shouldn’t use an 8 amp relay to control 6 amps of electricity because the breaker is rated for 15 amps, and I might forget I have an 8 amp relay in the wall which could result in me putting more powerful appliances in line and overloading the 8 amp relay, correct? I’m pretty sure the 8 amp mini relay is for folks who can add up the amperage of the lights they’re controlling and not confuse the outlet for their deep freezer or dryer for they light switch for the porch lights.

[@digiblurDIY]

@tstrenuous10 that's not how it works at least in US electrical code. Not an argument at all. I can't just say oh I will never put more than a couple LED lights on this wire and use 18 awg wire and throw a 20 amp breaker on it.

[@djashjones]

5% accuracy by my calc's. Whether that's acceptable, that's a different story.

[@e74av]

Everything is amazing but wi-fi signal. It's miserable for minis and gen3.

[@kanehysop2591]

shelly pro 3em

[@digiblurDIY]

No dinrail setup here.

[@CraigMullins1]

3:30 - hmm if it takes 8 amps at 240 volts it would take 16 amps at 120 volts. Unless my math is wrong? :)

[@dream4magi]

What really matter is current.

[@digiblurDIY]

You are thinking watts there. Amps X Volts = Watts

[@terryuland6502]

I used to think that as well, but the limiting factors of amperage are the size of the conductors and how hot parts next to them can get (insulation on wire, connectors, plastic housing, etc). The limitation of voltage is the amount and type of insulation between conductors (including air). So you think of each rating as a maximum, and in this case, you can have 0-8 amps and 0-240 volts. Going over on either amps or volts puts you out of spec. This is why, generally speaking, you want to always use the highest voltage possible. In this example, 8 amps at 240 volts is 1,920 watts of power, whereas, if you dial the voltage down to 120, it can only handle 960 watts of power.

[@CamiloSperberg]

I'm thinking the same, it also explicitly states 8A @ 240v or 2000W, which would double the amount of what you get with 120v... but on the other side, the US is the only weird country in the world to use an unconventional electricity voltage, so maybe they should just switch over to 240v like the rest of the world and get over it. I do know that it allowed me to finally automate my kitchens' lights (now that it is small enough to fit) which uses 24W of power in total :)

[@digiblurDIY]

@CamiloSperberg lol.. We can't even get rid of DST to this day.

[@tomferrin1148]

Dude, just wire up the 16A PMG3 in the middle of a short 3-wire extension cord instead of complaining about the product.

[@digiblurDIY]

Huh? The 16A gray mini product is great. Such an awesome idea.