F1 23 - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S vs PC - Is Ray Tracing on Console Viable?

[@headred76]

I can’t believe Sony aren’t doing something to encourage the developers to introduce a VR mode for PS5. Sales of both the PSVR2 and this game would definitely increase significantly.

[@zeus1117]

It is already shown how much lower you must go on quality for the VR experience. Needs a PS6 for an actually good experience. Also, it is not just a mode. They have to invest several months of dev time to achieve a VR version!

[@wltdo6930]

@@zeus1117es the quality is lower but the immersion is amazing. GT7 shows how good it can be, well worth the effort

[@Orlandjim]

Speaking of Sony, is it me or does Super Formula in GT7 look much better than F1 23?

[@santhoshsridhar5887]

​@@zeus1117Nope. GT-7 runs fine on the PS5 at 4K with foveated rendering. Pretty sure F1 can too, though it would require a lot of dev time regardless.

[@not1fgivn58]

My rtx 3070 can hardly run it at low on all settings in vr it's a muddy mess the ps5 would have no hope in its current state.

[@asdfjklo234]

No matter the rendering technique, these racing games keep having an unnaturally clean look that makes them look artificial.

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

Got to agree. Maybe it's my 1080p Laptop and KZbin making things look crap but looking at the tyres on the F1 cars makes the whole car look flat and not 3D. It's really weird.

[@wiegraf9009]

It's the materials and the lack of simulation of light scattering in the atmosphere. The materials in GT7 are extremely high quality and crafted with the utmost care but they still look a bit fake because the light is reflected too cleanly. It seems impossible that we'll ever get a real time simulation of that though.

[@alondite215]

@@wiegraf9009 AI-assisted path tracing seems like a viable option in the not-too-distant future that may get us that last bit of realism.

[@asdfjklo234]

@@wiegraf9009 Frostbite has this in spades, the render pipeline is spectacular in terms of lighting and PBR.

[@10secondsrule]

Same goes for almost all games. Personally I really dislike this trend as I do some architectural visuals and find most games far, far from real feel. Especially the ones they call photorealistic.

[@KoeiNL]

The framerate performance during the racing itself is absolutely fantastic. Not often you see flawless performance at 60 and 120 fps.

[@spenny2cents]

720 P

[@HaloinfiniteEternal]

@@spenny2centsyou’re a clown as the game runs 1440p 120fps or 4k 60fps on PlayStation 5 / Xbox Series X

[@phased3941]

It's a racing game, racing games aren't really cpu bound like most next gen games are, they can push further without doing much, bcs the cpu is doing next to nothing in comparison I'm exaggerating a bit but think about it, all the CPU has to do, is essentially tell you where you're going and where the other cars are going, meanwhile most other next gen games especially, simply walking on the grass is using your CPU to move those blades of grass, or whenever you kill an enemy or knock a vase out of place, those things all have to go through your cpu

[@roundearthshill248]

@@HaloinfiniteEternal you obviously didn't pay attention to the video....some parts of the image are running at 720p in those modes in order to maintain 60/120fps.

[@zues287]

@@roundearthshill248 you obviously didn't pay attention, because they were talking about the Series S. Obviously the Series S is going to run at a much lower resolution, as it has a far inferior GPU. It's GPU is weaker than the one in the Xbox One X. Both the PS5 and Series X run at 60/120fps at 4K/1440p with DRS that stays at native resolution the majority of the time.

[@toasterdogg]

Very impressive work. They truly make most of the engine.

[@ncard00]

TIMESTAMPS!!!

[@vinyfiny]

Hopefully one day we won't need to decide if ray-tracing is worth enabling. It'll just be the defecto standard way lighting is done in games and hardware will be capable enough (at all price points) to handle it.

[@user-np5es9hc8p]

It’s inevitable, its the absolute replacement for raster rendering.

[@xtr.7662]

You mean full rt path tracing only reflections or shadows isnt that impressive

[@vinyfiny]

@@xtr.7662 It'd be pretty impressive if we could use those features and not lose 50%+ performance is my point.

[@mutz6248]

hopefully that’ll be the case when the next consoles come out, raster is really just becoming a waste of time with how easy rt is to implement

[@-redacted_by_youtube]

Give it more time. Everyone likes to think we've hit the peak due to how much we can do. Technology is there. Shit needs to catch up. Like Einstein with time travel. It's mathematically possible. We just haven't reached a point where we can actually do it. Although the time travel thing is a different subject as r.t. is a much more within our reach.

[@Compusemble]

Good breakdown video. I did a comparison between RT on vs off on PC and the difference is much more significant than last year. Very good RT implementation on PC when using maxed out settings.

[@adamskyj69]

Yeah RT in F1 2022 maxed out is pretty underwhelming. Might get 2023 now lol.

[@tulegaming415]

Gran Turismo 7 in VR is still the best racer for me.

[@kraenk12]

They really need to add a VR mode for this!

[@BertVisser-es5ev]

Same 💪🏼💪🏼😎😎

[@GageHeibeck]

@@kraenk12 They have it on PC, they just will not put it on PS5.

[@Tylern7]

Ya would be better if they just let you pick any car and drive it instead of jumping thru a million fkin hoops

[@emilk.4643]

I'm pretty sure you were mistaken by the reflections with RT off. They seem to be made using cube maps and planar reflections, not screen space reflections.

[@KAIJUCHOMPS]

at least in F1 21 it was a combination of both so I'd imagine it's still the case. cubemaps/planar reflections layered beneath the SSR to provide coverage when the screen space effect is occluded, you can see it happen in photo mode when an object begins to disapppear from the screen and its reflection simply starts getting a bit blurrier depending on how much has been concealed.

[@Gucc111]

Really pleased with the granularity of the graphics settings in this game. Codemasters does a great job of letting PC users balance quality and performance.

[@videogameobsession]

Where is playStation VR2 mode? That would definitely be a great addition to this game. It's already running at 120 Hz. Codemasters says worked with VR on the PS4 in the past with great results.

[@AP-hn8wd]

Not being able to play this game in VR, especially in the new Las Vegas Strip Circuit this year is a bummer. Hope they add a patch in the near future.

[@eucri]

didnt the previous game have VR? at least on PC, iirc

[@Vynzent]

It has a VR Mode. On PC.

[@existentialselkath1264]

They've done a great job of iterating on creating a better image every time. I think the next step should be to drastically improve the antialiasing. TAA just doesn't work well with the fast motion of racing games. If you're sensitive to aliasing, it's great, but TAA is always going to be far too soft in any racing game.

[@arthurb5194]

Agreed, GT7 has motion blur + TAA and I think it looks amazing but definitely not as clean as it could be for visibility. I hope they can find a good AA method that minimizes trailing and shimmering without being as heavy as MSAA. I know Forza Horizon 5 used MSAA and it looked great, except for foliage. Since most F1 tracks usually have a lot of clean surfaces and safety fences it might be good for that.

[@balaam_7087]

I agree this series gets better with each iteration, but personally I’m hoping full rate reflections on the car models is the next big feature. Particularly on consoles, I find it extremely distracting to have such a gorgeous game zipping by at buttery smooth framerates, only to be taken out of the experience with choppy slideshow reflections on the body of the car. I’d even be willing to sacrifice fidelity or other features to boost them from half to full rate, ray tracing be darned.

[@e2rqey]

The post-processing and TAA also don't work well with VR on PC. They don't work the same and negatively impact overall visual quality/clarity significantly.

[@Tyler-sl6vg]

@@arthurb5194 Does F1 2023 force TAA on PC? I agree so bad. I find FXAA with image sharpening is usually the best option. Or sometimes just AA off.

[@username4699]

I would generally disagree that the series looks better with each release. Codemaster's heavily updated their game engine back with the release of F1 2015 after F1 2011 - 2014 generally all had the same look (and targeted PS3/360). To this day - even while using older rendering technologies - I still think 2015 achieves a more realistic look in many circumstances, particularly in the color palette and materials department and especially at night. In future releases it seems like they tweaked how their physically based rendering implementation worked and it resulted in that dry, bland, washed-out look for many materials that plagued various games for awhile (and still does in some cases). For a good example, I suggest searching for "F1 2015 Singapore PC" or "F1 2015 Bahrain PC".

[@designer.346]

Ps5 is a beast Sony made a better work with the devkits in my opinion, I’m an Xbox user but it’s the truth PS5 outperforms XSX on a lot of games

[@cj8489]

Awesome work by Codemasters and Thom.

[@carlomorischi3435]

Hope next year they add a 40FPS RT mode!

[@zakixbox]

I think it doesnt work for a racing game.

[@richardharrison1300]

Considering the ultimate goal is lap time, and to achieve this having a high FPS is advantageous, what is the point in ray tracing when it’s so taxing on a competitive racing game? I am always always going to choose performance

[@mrbrookeyoung]

It's only taxing because the hardware just isn't there yet

[@frederikgoogel5611]

Because a 4090 can do it. It is great to have options. Do whatever you like. Some just play this single player for fun. This is essential for a pc game and this game is a great showing!

[@wiegraf9009]

Thanks for these comparisons. It convinced me to turn off RT for everything except shadows on PC. RT is nice for replays and photo mode but absolutely not worth the huge performance penalty on this game. I don't really care if the Monaco tunnel walls have accurate reflections when I'm driving by at well over 100kph. It's very silly. I would like to see them try to use RT for their audio simulation as that could be much more interesting than burning so much compute to fix up minute details. I will say the RT shadows look much better than the default ones but everything else I don't think would be noticeable in a race.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

If it is hard to justify ray tracing in a typical action game like Tomb Raider for example, were you can actually stop and look around… imagine frenetic paced games like racing in general, Spider-Man, etc.. A friend of mine is waiting to play Spider-Man with ray tracing enabled, he is saving money for a upgrade and Spider-Man is one of his targets… and that’s so foolish smh some random reflections on buildings justify a $400+ upgrade, c’mon now. I finished Spider-Man ages ago on my GTX 1060 and I don't fell like a missed a thing

[@pliat]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 maybe he's just interested. i have spent hours fiddling with settings in games, i find it interesting, hours spent in cyberpunk and Portal RTX just messing with settings. some people buy expensive cars, some people buy expensive instruments, and others buy graphics cards.

[@thomasnishantha4941]

They should add a 1440p at 40fps with RT enabled mode to the consoles 🙂

[@ag2023en]

Giving players the option of how they want to use the console's power is great. That said, wouldn't it be easier to simply have a framerate target slider along with a ray tracing slider? That way, the player could specify what framerate and graphics they want while the resolution is adjusted automatically?

[@joshchristenson8286]

It seems like they should be able to enable a few of the raytracing settings on consoles and still keep 60fps.

[@HappyHubris]

Small request: is it possible to throw an AMD 7900 card into these comparisons, even if for only 30 seconds of the video? I get that the marker share is small, but it would help calibrate. Same for the recommended settings deep-dives.

[@as101345207]

3:46 shout-out to my guy ArseGambler

[@maldosogamer]

They created a DLSS Ultra Quality mode? This is great, I hope to see this in all games going forward

[@AnalogFoundry]

It's there since the beginning of DLSS 2, but very few devs are implementing it.

[@ttwinsturbo]

DLSS quality looks the same and even better than nativ 4k so DLSS ultra quality is no reason to exist.

[@Vynzent]

I can't imagine you're saving much performance if your render resolution is barely smaller than your target resolution.

[@maldosogamer]

@@Vynzent I just tested it myself and there's still a good performance boost

[@GraveUypo]

@@ttwinsturbo it absolutely does not look the same, let alone better than native, EVER (unless devs fucks the TAA implementation so hard that even the compromised dlss image ends up less worse). that is copium.

[@aaronsmith7143]

My giggest wish is for racing games to only use rt reflections for the car mirrors. I literally don't care for detailed reflections in any other instance. Getting a driveclub remake on ps5 with the rt mirror reflections intact would be amazing.

[@VariantAEC]

Driveclub was getting realtime RT substitutes that far exceed the visuals shown here. Thing is Driveclub was 30FPS... problem for the people that see this as some kind of proof that consoles were weak is thar Driveclub still rivals this game running at 4K with RT at 90FPS on the best PC GPUs built nearly 10 years after a console exclusive. Driveclub needs a PS5 remaster with the Bikes DLC included and it should be able to run in VR looking every bit as good as the original PS4 release (if not slightly better) at 60FPS in VR. For 2D we should see some implementation of realtime RT in-game. Tall order in concept? Maybe? Will an enhanced PS5 native re-release of Driveclub ever happen, I sincerely doubt it.

[@SoloWingX108]

Do you think RT reflections would be cheaper than a PiP render they use now? Good examples for how it should be done today are iRacing and Assetto Corsa with MirrorFX. Racing games using TAA usually have bad quality mirrors...

[@MattyFreedom]

I’m throughly underwhelmed by ray tracing so far. More of a nice touch than anything revolutionary so far.

[@b1thearchitect401]

Yup. There's all this chat about how stuff like RT GI /Lighting is so game changing but I still often find games that carefully pre bake their lighting like AC Unity & Last Of Us Part 1 & 2 look just as good as top end RT GI with like 1/10th of the performance cost. I think RT GI, Reflections & Shadows can all look great, and I've seen them at their best in Cyberpunk but it's still a good few years before it's remotely worth the performance trade off IMO

[@khs511]

Because it's not GI and dumb shadows and basic reflections.

[@BurritoKingdom]

Cyberpunk Overdrive Mode is where it's at. But you'll need a $3000 rig to run that.

[@anthonyrizzo9043]

That's because until games are entirely path traced, it's not going to be a huge difference and we're still quite a ways off.

[@pliat]

because they have not committed to it yet. these little crumbs of ray tracing are nothing compared to the full package (PT)

[@darrenm01]

They did really well. How about adding an additional option for PS5 and XSX - Ray Tracing enabled, target 1440p, and locked 40 fps. If it can’t hold 40 fps, it could reduce the resolution down to 720p if necessary. I think a stable 40 fps for people who want RT in-game would be a good trade off.

[@wile123456]

Hope they cap the cutsscenes and cockpit to 30 vsync in quality mode and in the 120 hz mode they should cap it to 40 fps. Perfectly balanced as all things should be

[@mistermcking8445]

RT isnt worth in this case. You have to search for it.

[@andyward8430]

I wonder if the upcoming forza Motorsport might have been better off without raytracing. I realize as a first party title it has to push the console features but perhaps it could have been a more impressive game without that one feature.

[@kraenk12]

You and me both know it won’t have RT in races.

[@Chocapic_13]

Unfortunately on PC you cannot adjust the quality of each effect separately for some reason

[@DavidHunter]

Honestly impressive to have rock solid 60fps in gameplay even in rain behind a full pack on console. Enter than GT7 which I’ve found to have worse performance in such conditions than DF stated in their review of that game.

[@Xtraordinarygamerz534]

they should put 1080p 60fps Performance RT mode

[@Revenant_Knight]

I wish they had a 1080P Ray Traced mode.

[@nick13b]

at 1:51 the rt is super choppy on the ps5 compared to the series x

[@bobbobert5506]

ps has less rt cores than xbox

[@91KevinJohn]

I can still well remember the review from I think Spiderman Miles Morales, where the raytracing performance mode was praised and one wondered what else was possible. The ray tracing was then improved again in Ratchet and Clank Rift apart. Well, unfortunately it stayed that way, we have to wait for the next Insomniac Games

[@Decenium]

there have been past racing games where at some screenshots you really did not know if it was real or not....but it seems we barely moved on, its still so clearly a game.

[@detonator620]

15:14 nice shadow effect up there in the right corner!

[@danielweiss4498]

time and time again I am amazed by how similar the Playstation 5 and XboxSX and the high end PC version look

[@TheRedRaven_]

PC version looks better, will always look better.

[@12coco100]

​@@TheRedRaven_k

[@danielweiss4498]

@@TheRedRaven_ I can hardly see any difference in the graphics in this case. apart from that it also depends on what kind of pc you have only high end pc's look barley better , all other pcs usually don't

[@TheRedRaven_]

@@danielweiss4498 You have to see the raw footage, KZbins bit rate is low as hell to make out any differences.

[@danielweiss4498]

@@TheRedRaven_ maybe, but when a 4k 60 FPS KZbin Video can Not Show the difference, IT doesnt really Matter to me.

[@brandontalbort]

Great comparisons. Wondering what about all of that screen tearing? You can really see on the light poles at Monaco comparisons starting at 14:40.

[@dukenukeman]

RT doesn't seem worth it with the performance loss

[@madson-web]

My only problem about modern games is that they tend to simulate what a camera can see and not what eyes actually perceive

[@DrJones20]

Interesting point.

[@wiegraf9009]

Well you can only see through your eyes at the moment so simulating your eyes (probably impossible due to the complex physiology) to feed into your real eyes seems a bit silly.

[@Rationalific]

How so? I'm not disagreeing. I just don't understand.

[@madson-web]

@@Rationalific It is in a way that feels we are watching a recording of a game (using a camera, not direct capture), not the game directly.

[@Rationalific]

@@madson-web Okay, I kind of understand a bit better...

[@adamuser8246]

Very nice, clear examples of Ray/non ray.

[@DrJones20]

They could add a 30fps mode with RT if people really want it, or lower the resolution to 1080p or less

[@toddsimone7182]

No one wants to play a racing game at 30fps

[@DrJones20]

@@toddsimone7182 Driveclub on PS4 says hi

[@VariantAEC]

​@@toddsimone7182 And I really enjoy Driveclub still sing it's praises and play it from time to time... and it still arguably looks better (read better as more realistic instead of sharper or having more FPS which Driveclub doesn't have) than this game does with RT enabled on PC. Driveclub (still a base model PS4 exclusive) looks better than GT7 in some ways. Driveclub also has a stand alone VR version and motorcycling DLC (none of which you can find digitally and I don't think there was ever a complete version with everything on disc though Driveclub was physically very small and the original gane all it's DLC and the VR release could fit on a single BD-ROM... for how real the game still looks, it's ultrafast loading might be partly down to how small the game actually is. I could imagine a PS5 re-release without the club aspects (think of it like when Nintendo released the 2DS or Switch Lite) it's Driveclub without the game's social aspects. Seems counterintuitive, but if DC ever gets a PS5 native version this is how I see it coming about.

[@ArchieBunker11]

Looks like a great experience for all ends of the spectrum

[@Saki-Legenda]

4 words: Driveclub. 2014. Still king. The res-way was the wrong way to go for all games in terms of realism, and squandered horsepower that could have gone to ray-tracing in-game, while making the games look too clean and sharp - which makes it harder to hide the lack of detail, thus making them less photo-real.

[@Acconda]

I keep looking for an excuse to build a new PC, not done so since 1080TI and moved to console and tbh I still can’t see a real reason to pay 3x the cost of the ps5 just yet. I will see what the next gen cards bring, hopefully better value! I also don’t want fake frames thanks nvidia!

[@samgao]

It’s like that one day, we decided to enable AA. Before, we didn’t want it to hit our perf

[@stprinz]

I too would appreciate a 1080p Ray-Tracing Mode (not only for this game), as I am still running a FHD TV. 60 FPS should be achievable at that res.

[@somegit7113]

The RBR car is a bit too glossy.

[@EpochFitness]

This is like comparing a 30mp camera and 50mp camera by zooming in on the photos. Who cares. Games look phenomenal, especially at 200miles per hour.

[@isolated147]

You forgot to try frame generation. It can be forced on by applying the recommended settings in geforce experience.

[@TehPwnographer]

Not a huge F1 fan, but those that are must be in heaven with this

[@Mourad_Hall]

Thank you very much DF for your video analysis. On the other hand, me personally being French, I manage to understand you, but I have trouble with the "figures". Like "the resolution goes down to one thousand seven hundred and twenty eight p". Is it possible for you to put it on the screen while you say it? Sometimes you do though. Congratulations again for the excellent work. Edit; I did not say anything, by activating the subtitles it is clearly indicated.

[@frederikgoogel5611]

No word on frame gen? Native 4k with frame gen could be ok. Dlss quality with frame gen would make the 75ish base 120hz while most likely looking better than 4k native. Also, no rt with frame gen would max out a 240 minitor. Optimised settings with frame gen on a 4060 or 4060ti would run fantastic aswell.

[@TheNerd]

Am I confused or did I see that right that you can enable HBAO+ and RTAO at the same time? Doesn't make sense to me, if RTAO is applied to the entire image that is.

[@ExG131]

Crazy how RT is still the most taxing feature above everything else. Even sampling on DLSS or FSR hardly gives out a difference in performance. This is where AI is gonna be essential to calculate shading in real-time.

[@zeus1117]

Or maybe use and implement proper HW units to do that. Like Nvidia 😂

[@FSAPOJake]

Ray tracing also increases CPU load, not just GPU load, so dropping resolution doesn't help entirely.

[@viet0ne]

Don't need AI, it's never going to be good enough compared to better hardware. nVidia and AMD just need to iterate and make improved RT pipelines.

[@ExG131]

Understand also what's more COST EFFECIENT, both for the company and its consumer price. Both Nvidia and AMD can make amazing hardware, but at what price? AI will in theory have to "shortcut" the process for further iteration with RT.

[@pferreira1983]

Well done Codemasters. This is impressive work. 👍

[@yoyo-nf1ww]

SO a 40 FPS mode is feasable.. Why not implement it with RT?

[@anonony9081]

I always want to play the games from this series but then I look at the reviews and just see a flood of people with issues that the devs are never going to address. These games seem like they're only worth it if they are on a deep discount

[@ketle369]

Or just buy a Series S for 200 dollars.

[@mrbrookeyoung]

All of the F1 games get added to EA play eventually (And Game Pass Ultimate) so just wait it out

[@e2rqey]

Yeah there are a lot better racing game/sims out there. It's fun if you're just looking to play something on a controller though.

[@Evaquiel]

why not just make a "Performance RT" Mode at 1080p or less then? Or even a "Quality RT" at 30 cap.

[@ArturKraft]

I love Tom’s videos the most

[@CAPS_Paranormal]

I've known since the days of N64 and PS1 that eventually we would reach a diminishing point where graphical qualities are nearly indistinguishable between consoles, if they continue to exist in the future. This video, however, makes me consider that we are still a ways off from that...I imagine the PS6 and Series Y will do real-time ray tracing, including shadows and reflections at 60fps with no issue, but at some point in the next few years a new feature will be introduced that will set the benchmark yet again higher, and yet again the new devices will struggle to fully run this feature at all levels. I wonder what it will be? If I had to guess, it will involve AI and possibly making game characters look more realistic, eliminating the uncanny valley. I would also like to see ground and water textures that do not perceptibly repeat, neither up close nor at a distance, as is still an issue now. Finally, real life is made up of nearly infinite detail and density of "stuff." Although much improved recently, there are literally millions, billions perhaps, units of solid, liquid and gaseous particles, textures, rays, mists and surfaces in every square foot of real life. We are still a long way off from reproducing, say, a dense, detailed forest, in a video game. There are some very impressive approximations, but if realism is the goal, we have a long way to go in that regard. Perhaps that will be the next big thing...what do you think it will be?

[@12max44]

Realistically in maybe 10-15 years, depending on hardware and AI advancements. PS7 maybe.

[@fafski1199]

It all depends on the amount detail and "realism" that is involved. Realism in games with accurate physics and extremely fine detail, is still a very, very long way off (way beyond any of our lifetimes). For example just imagine the amount of processing power that would be required in order to fairly accuratly recreate a simple backyard sandpit. Where every grain of sand within it (billions, if not trillions) is unique from each other, rendered in fine detail, colored, lit and shaded correctly, had realistic physics applied to it and it's position within the sandpit has been precisely plotted and mapped. Then think about the amount of processing that would then be required if you then had a kid, that simply started to play in that sandpit. To blow your mind even more, then think about it on a even larger scale where that sandpit has now become a windswept beach or even a desert.

[@lideresunidosmexico_]

What is the difference of price between the PC with that hardware vs the PS5?

[@DefinitelyNotSade]

Tom including PC coverage? Rare occurrence.

[@FortressArena]

Locked 60fps on all consoles, job well done.

[@Cafe--Racer]

Give me frame-rate over ray-tracing any day.

[@derekringer7143]

People have been asking Codemasters to update their game engine for years, but I say it's perfectly fine as it is if they're able to deliver on the 60/120fps targets. When they started making F1 games, in the 360/PS3 era, they weren't really focusing on framerate as a priority and those games felt terrible to play as a result. They didn't even look that impressive visually, neither. This game engine might not be up to the standards set by Unreal Engine 5 but who cares. In a racing game, framerate is what matters.

[@charleshodge6920]

No real-time weathering on the cars. The rain is falling on the car like it’s parked ideal in a driveway.

[@c120xy]

I assumed my SX was on performance mode it was that good, turns out it was in quality all along when I actually bothered to check

[@HadesTimer]

With a more than $1,000 card you can only just barely do ray tracing that is only sometimes visible and considering this is a racing game you probably won't see much anyway. Seems like a completely worthless addition to me. Perhaps getting better models for people would have been more worth the effort the devs spent on this. As the models to me, still seem like they are pulled from an XBOX ONE game.

[@ArchieBunker11]

Or, instead of playing 120 fps at 720p-1440, you can play at 160fps at native 4k? Or, you can use 4k DLSS, and play 80-90 fps maxed out. Why do console players do this?

[@wiegraf9009]

Yeah nearly worthless

[@deathtrooper2048]

@ArchieBunker11 DLSS is shit and looks worse than native. Manufacturers are advertising 4k and they should give us real 4K.

[@acardenasjr1340]

Basically, RT60FPS is virtually impossible on Consoles.

[@hrungnir00008psp]

And again another time we can see that RT is not worth the cost over SSR.

[@pipgoesthepossum]

I dunno what it is, but I find the Ego engine really underwhelming, these days, in its results. In theory it has tons of great features, but in practice I just don't find myself impressed.

[@pipgoesthepossum]

@TumTuned I'd disagree. They're going for realistic, but I don't feel they actually achieve it.

[@DoshindeReus]

Excellent performance bij Series S. Awesome machine for good price

[@fataldragon69]

So I'm guessing that all the Ray Tracing and other graphical options are all done automatically on console because there's no options in the menus for any of them on my Xbox Series-X.....Only Performance or Quality is available in the graphics options menu !?!?

[@techsamurai11]

Does it use FSR 2 on the XSX and PS5? It looks very crisp. Also are the ray tracing features able to perhaps imitate Insomniac's approach in R&C Rift Apart and Spiderman? Judging by the impact they have on a 4080 which requires DLSS to hit 60fps, I think they are using very high-quality ray tracing. If they limit bounces and use lower res reflections, perhaps that could potentially provide most of the benefits of ray tracing at a fraction of the cost.

[@wiegraf9009]

They really don't need to bother because the RT is most useful in replays and camera mode, where higher quality is preferable

[@brtcobra]

if only they would spend more time on tire model and physics and FFB

[@Tyler-sl6vg]

I am PC gamer with a 3080 and a 1440p 240hz monitor. For shooters and racing games I almost always prefer the higher frame rate, native resolution and no ray tracing. I do not think consoles are missing out here. It's cool the way they have added it to the menu and replays tho for that cinematic immersion factor - I hope PC has that as an option.

[@livibam]

No VR is a massive MISS

[@ghostblaze01]

It's not a Nvidia raytracing issue, the console is not capable of playing games in high quality , high resolution and high fps. Ray tracing is a separate issue

[@kostasbousbouras2654]

What exactly is the amazing, jncredible thing that RT brings on the PC version compared to the consoles and I can't see it?...or even where it exists on consoles. Still the game looks very beautiful without that fps destroyer.

[@JimBob1937]

Odd, the differences stick out to me quite strongly.

[@ArchieBunker11]

Ignorance is bliss.

[@villa_art]

Is raytraced ambient occlusion necessary if it has raytraced shadows? That's something I've always been curious about. Every time I see raytracing videos, it's always with every raytraced feature active. I would like to see what it's like with each one separately first and then with all active

[@eSKAone-]

Good question

[@Ramshir80]

In super simple terms, as I understand it, shadows are the result of direct lighting - AO is the result of indirect and ambient lighting. So while they are technically both shadows, they are different things, calculated in different ways in terms of game engines.

[@villa_art]

@Ramshir80 yeah, but how much of a difference visually will it make if ambient occlusion isn't active? In the comparison, when he showed the raytracing on and was talking about ambient occlusion, you can see the shadows appear on the balconies of the buildings in the background. Would that still happen with only raytraced shadows active, or is that the ray traced ambient occlusion? I've never seen a video ever where they test shadows separate from ambient occlusion.

[@Vynzent]

I was always confused about this too. "Raytraced shadows" should mean all shading is raytraced as a result of light simulation. I guess they're only split into 2 categories so that people can choose to use 1 or both, to save on performance.

[@GraveUypo]

they are. the raytraced shadows in these games are very low precision and can't handle subtle nuances, hence the need for AO. heck even offline renderers often use AO for that reason

[@3KPK3]

Wish they improved the environmental assets since some look bad.

[@MadViking82]

This would be another 4K120fps DLSS Quality RT + Everything else Maxed game with the 4090 if Frame Generation would be available. Hope they implement it!

[@zeus1117]

Nice video. Although the game itself is underwhelming. It also just shows how the devs becoming lazy doing proper lighting without RT. You can also bake or simulate lightings for similar effect they just don't care anymore.

[@cj8489]

They don’t care? It’s called a budget of time and money, and Codemasters delivers. Educate yourself about what it takes to make a game with even a fraction of the features in this game a**hole.

[@dannonyogurt98]

Are guys going to revisit the collisto protocol with the new DLC? It will be interesting to see the optimization and check in the barely functional raytracing on xbox.

[@mattspeer01]

Why bother? The DLC is getting even worse reviews than the main game which was already bad enough. It's a dead IP at this point.

[@iceburglettuce6940]

I’m still struggling to see the real point in RT at the moment. There is so little difference noticeable when playing. If you watch a a game or see a screen shot, there are subtle differences. I still think we are a couple of generations of GPU away from it really being worth it. (I see the benefit for developers but only after they don’t have to pre-render lighting, which is a long way off due to consoles and PC back compatibility.

[@danielweiss4498]

that's right. almost all games that have ray tracing don't really have it implemented, only partially or to a limited extent. to implement proper ray tracing with full illumination you need graphics cards that are more powerful than today's. With the Playstation 6 and the graphics cards in 3 to 4 years this will no longer be a problem. I think you need at least 150 teraflops in graphics cards. There are two games that stand out in particular Metro Exodus and cyberpunk 2077 raytracing overdrive.

[@whatkindofnameissoap4822]

Fantastic breakdown Tom! It's great to see Codemasters putting out such solid releases, year on year. I also appreciate that at least someone at DF has the interest and motivation to cover a yearly sports game, an area that is, understandably, lacking at DF. I realize sports games aren't as well appreciated in the more "core gamer-sphere" demographic that is more interested in this kind of content but stuff like NBA 2K pushes their engine in a similar manner to F1 and is an especially fantastic visual simulation of the real-life sport. MLB The Show is now available on, not only the Series, but the Switch as well. I'm honestly surprised you guys never covered the Switch release. It's a Sony first part dev, down-porting to a Nintendo console. That's practically DF bait!

[@Chavez96PR]

Great breakdown video. Planning on getting the game later on this year.

[@christofos]

Thanks for taking a look at the PC version!

[@BertVisser-es5ev]

We need formule 1 and assetto corsa on the psvr2. Its real sh.t why in vr on pc and not on the psvr2 😭😭😭😭😭 SONY COME ON!!!!!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@toddsimone7182]

It seems there is a performance bug on pc you're encountering and hasnt been addressed in the first patch. I've noticed my FPS tank the second time I launched the game and is related to the video selection mode and switching to windowed and back to full screen fixes it. If you monitor FPS in the menu you can see an immediate change. For reference with my 13700k RTX 4080 I go from 72fps average to 95fps in the default benchmark at 3440x1440 all maxed settings. It looks like the RT performance you're getting reflects this.

[@fcukugimmeausername]

Just had a go of this on PS5 with a wheel. Very fun 👍👍

[@ChrisDaytrader]

As with most ray traced games, i so much prefer game without RT.

[@scoty3434]

After SEE THIS with f1 2023 now i SEE why gran turismo 7 have only raytracing in the repeating scenes on PS5 and for thats why i'm now worried about how the next forza motorsport is gonna came out for the Xbox series consolés , the PC is gonna be fine but the Xbox series consolés is gonna have the Same issues with FM than the PS5 is having with GT7 when is about of raytracing in game , the raytracing option is very demanding for the PS5 and XSX , no surprise than the people is asking for PS5 PRO in the future

[@VariantAEC]

No one is asking for PS5 Pro except morons and fanboys who think PS5 is too weak. I mean here is another example of a PC game not really running a game too well with PS5 or XSX-like settings at native 4K without using upscaling tricks and let's stop acting like the RTX 4080 (the GPU specifically used according to Tom in the video above) is some $30 GPU that every single PC gamer owns. It's $1,200 MSRP and still only provides visuals competitive with consoles at 4K. RT is a boon (personally), but many legitimate PC gamers seem to really loath RT. I don't understand that personally. Also everyone with any sense knew FM 2023 wouldn't feature RT during races (well I knew based on released games performance delta between the consoles). PS4 v XO had larger statistical differences than PS5 v XSX.

[@dereksteneman9657]

I’m just trying to determine as a novice if I should go console or PC. My left brain doesn’t see what you all see. Nor do I understand anything you’re saying. So why wouldn’t I go console? What am I missing?

[@Ultra-Niche-Gaming]

Why haven't anyone done a Alien dark descent console comparison yet? C'mon DF.

[@sambagogo777]

An already gimped targeted 120fps mode that had to be partially rendered in 720p. PS6 can't come soon enough.

[@Crimsongz]

The pro is coming out first tho 🤣

[@junde.]

@@Crimsongz if true games with a unlocked framerate will be very good on that console

[@coliander4180]

Unpopular opinion, maybe. But RT in competitive racing games is completely redundant. You spend so much time focused on such a small area of the screen that you'll never notice the visual benefits of RT unless you're specifically looking for them, which you wouldnt be doing if you were mid-race.

[@wiegraf9009]

Yeah I think only the shadows option has any value and even then it's no big loss. The exception I can think of is the strange lighting model in GT7 that often completely obscures the car dash in shadow so it's unusable. An RT solution would help deal with that

[@deathtrooper2048]

RT is irrelevant in most games, the only game where I can tell a massive difference is GTA V on series X on the 30 fps mode

[@wiegraf9009]

@@deathtrooper2048 Basically RT shadows look good in games with lots of terrain and character detail where the camera doesn't move that fast...which has nothing in common with an F1 racing game.

[@fabryfineart]

Excellent! Very interesting video that explains a lot of things! I wanted to ask you if on PS5 you can see the difference between 120 and 60 fps in terms of game fluidity or is it barely visible? In your opinion, on PS5 is it better to enjoy it in 4K 60 fps quality or performance at 120 fps? Having the PS5 and playing it in 4k in both modes, I honestly can't see the difference in fluidity between 60 and 120, you can clearly see that at 120 fps there is a bit of clipping for the objects on the edge of the track and it is noticeable on the background a lowering of the resolution.

[@ryanh.739]

💯 You definitely want to play at 4K 60fps. When the developers try to stretch it to 120fps, you lose a lot of pretty visuals effects, and on top of that you have a lower resolution, or an aggressive dynamic resolution that stays in the lower range. It’s not worth the visual sacrifice, especially if your playing on a bigger screen.

[@fritzneumann1714]

RT does so little