The Cetacean Alternative: What if Plesiosaurs Never Went Extinct?

[@colonelhammerhead3025]

I, for one, wanna do a spec evo project of island dwarf dinosaurs who were adaptable enough to survive the extinction event where after the island becomes bigger over time, allowing them to grow to 75% of their former size. Several islands are fromed, creating a larger archipelago. Evenially over millions of years it culminates in humans exploring and catalouging its species. But also expanding it by have plesiosurs and mosasaurs remaining as the dominant largest sea life and pterosaurs rule the skies as some of them travel across the distance between the continents. Where the largest resides on the island and in Africa. There's also one large pterosaur who mimics the current california condor struggle as they would scavenge the bison but due to humanity they have severely reduced in numbers

[@derekng7803]

You should do that

[@frilliflove2424]

Hell yeah

[@TheRagingRenegade]

Isn’t your idea just Skull Island just without Kong? Either way I would love to see it

[@colonelhammerhead3025]

@TheRagingRenegade I already have a King Kong project called Legend of Kong;King of Skull Island. This is for a realistic take on the Lost World concept

[@derekng7803]

@@colonelhammerhead3025 can we see it?

[@A113-p9e]

What a way to introduce your friend. “Frilli is a massive nerd.”

[@DinoDiego16]

I only speak the truth on this channel XD

[@baneofbanes]

If you’re subscribed to this channel that description is just a given.

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

Hey, at least it's nerd. Not geek 😂

[@frilliflove2424]

He is right tho. I am indeed a massive nerd. Diego has to put up with all my nerdy hyperfixations more than your average internet fella

[@DinoDiego16]

The amount of "Hey Diego, what are your thoughts on ________?" I get in my discord server from this nerd is astounding

[@extraordinarytv5451]

That one part with the woman doing weird stuff with the plesiosaur came out of nowhere and was oddly detailed💀 caught me off guard ngl

[@DinoDiego16]

It's weird, but there are real life accounts of people doing weird things with dolphins in our world that are unfortunately burned into history

[@extraordinarytv5451]

@@DinoDiego16 that it is smh

[@origami_dream]

@@DinoDiego16 This is something of an urban legend, amplified with misinformation published in Hustler (not exactly a reputable journal) assuming you're referring to Margaret Lovatt and the John C. Lilly speech experiment. What was done there was equivalent to what people do with/to (either word seems somewhat wrong, but still) all kinds of animals, clinically, generally for artificial insemination purposes. Our meat and dairy industry kinda relies on it. If... not so often actually *manually* any longer. I wouldn't call it terribly "weird." Especially in the context of the experiment, which was far weirder than clinically assisting a dolphin in ejaculating so it would stop being distracted and aggressive and... amorous. The living in a flooded house and trying to teach a dolphin to make English sounds are far weirder than that bit, which just seems like a logistical necessity. Because yeah, that experiment was weird as hell, and Lilly was a total quack and a loon, but it's unfortunate Lovatt gets so linked to this narrative when she seemed to be about as professional as she could be, and way more than NASA or the supposed "scientist" leading the absurd experiment.

[@frilliflove2424]

It was a reference to Peter the dolphin lol

[@Devin_Stromgren]

@@DinoDiego16 There are also accounts of dolphins attempting to do weird things to humans.

[@t.a.c7292]

I swear to GOD if Chris Pratt voices Hemot Tebbo I am going to riot.

[@DinoDiego16]

This gave me a good chuckle😆. Thanks for that!

[@frilliflove2424]

Ahhh!!!! Thank you so much, Diego!!! I love you, buddy!! You're an amazing friend!!! I wanna thank you and everyone else for taking the time and chance to view my project! It's one of my best creativity babies and I've worked so hard and put so much love into it that it's so refreshing to see it get love, attention, and care!!! For everyone who wants to ask me questions or just talk to me, my email is on the footer of every page on the site!! I'll also put it here: [e-mail] And you can find the site of my project here!!! sites.google.com/view/thecetaceanalternative/the-cetacean-alternative?authuser=2 And join my discord as well!!! discord.gg/58kcUfbAwH Again, thank you guys so much!! And a huge thanks to Diego!!!!

[@DinoDiego16]

Always happy to help!

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

If they did exist doesnt mean there would not be whales!

[@frilliflove2424]

@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 It does in this reality!!

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

@@frilliflove2424 This reality which doesnt have the claim? 🤦‍♂🤣

[@frilliflove2424]

​@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 ?

[@TheEbrithil2]

I love the treesnake dolo's tree camouflage because it has precedent in folklore, where dragons and other big serpents are often mistaken for fallen trees

[@achicken5422]

Thanks Diego for making this! I’m still so shocked this even exists tbh, this all started as a one off offer bcs I was bored lol. The kind words mean a lot and I’m glad so many people enjoy frilli’s work!

[@dirofs]

Peak videos as always, Diego. Frilli's Cetacean Alternative project is a very interesting one, and I specifically love the fact that she took the time to explore how the culture of this alternate world is impacted by these new plesiosaurs and their fascinating characteristics (I'm definitely not saying this because I'm the one who drew the Swirlies)

[@DinoDiego16]

You made a great piece!

[@dirofs]

Ty!

[@extraordinarytv5451]

I LOVE YOU PLESIOSAURS!!!

[@xandan1668]

Plesiosaurs: and we love you random mammal.

[@frilliflove2424]

YAYYY

[@balenfalotico2283]

Such a unique take on spec. evo.!!! Such dedication and love put into it!! I’m already a massive fan!!

[@frilliflove2424]

Thanks!!!! ❤

[@balenfalotico2283]

@@frilliflove2424 of course!!

[@MemesToa]

Okay, I can’t be the only one who wants to watch The Crown of the Sea now. That sounds like it would be an awesome movie.

[@DinoDiego16]

Hell yee!

[@frilliflove2424]

I'm glad you like the concept!! I tried to capture the feel of a classic Disney Renaissance movie

[@MemesToa]

@@frilliflove2424 Y’know, as a bit of a movie nerd, it’s kinda funny that you decided to have this release in 1987, since that puts it right between _The Black Cauldron_ (1985) and _The Little Mermaid_ (1989). That, plus the vibe I got from your plot summary, made _The Crown of the Sea_ feel like a transitional stepping stone between the two polar opposite Disney animated films, and maybe an alternate beginning to the Disney Renaissance. I have no idea if any of that was planned, especially since I’m one of about three people on Earth who still fondly remember _The Black Cauldron,_ but I shall choose to follow the Oogway Doctrine in this particular case anyway.

[@frilliflove2424]

@MemesToa YO FINALLY SOMEBODY CAUGHT THAT Legit that is the EXACT reason I made that decision!!! The Crown of the Sea was Disney's push for the more popular musical related numbers with cheerful adventure. But it was also tonally darker and more serious. Like it had that same "darker" and more rustic looking world like the Black Cauldron as well as the more serious themes. And as it's stated on the site, the success of The Crown of The Sea kick-started the Disney Renaissance and a shift from story focused serious films to fun feeling musical cheers

[@invisiblejaguar1]

I'm blown away by the sheer level of imagination and creativity gone into Frilli's work. As a fellow natural history nerd and fiction writer myself, I really feel the connection. I literally pondered the idea of a very small plesiosaur surviving the extinction event before her idea of it was mentioned 😁

[@frilliflove2424]

Thank you!! Much appreciated!😁😁

[@mixtheory1412]

the Peter incident is a cannon event

[@octaviohenrique6079]

Omg ALL timelines

[@chequerschequeres7691]

In an alternate timeline, a dolphin scientist got freaky with her pet Homo Sapien.

[@raptorhunter18]

I love spec evo. I also love this full breakdown. I’d love to see you do this with my book.

[@Hack_Man_VII]

Recently rewatched the bizarre live action Super Mario Bros movie. I can't help laughing at the idea that the movie's version of Goombas were supposed to be creatures from the cretatious period. I wonder if anyone would actually attempt to make a fake speculative project to try and make more realistic versions of the creatures from the movie. Lol

[@DinoDiego16]

Honestly, I liked that they tried incorporating that element into the film. It's weird, definitely, but it's the funny, enjoyable kind of weird XD

[@Hack_Man_VII]

@@DinoDiego16 don't get me wrong. I liked the attempt to do so. I just find it hilarious that Mushroom creatures were somehow adapted into THAT. I've heard some people compare the goombas in that movie to the TMNT designs from the Michael Bay movies. It's hard not to laugh. All the same, the movie is a guilty pleasure for me. Dinosaurs and Cyberpunk elements combined seem like such a cool combo, and I wish others would explore it.

[@DinoDiego16]

I totally get that. It's very strange how they decided to go about the goombas. I'll admit, the movie is also very much a guilty pleasure for myself too. I love me a drunk Bob Hoskins XD

[@stubonk6346]

Yet another peak video on the Cetacean Alternative

[@DinoDiego16]

Thanks Stu! Can't wait to see your video on it!

[@NathanTarantlawriter]

It would certianly affect how seaside communities were constructed, large and small.

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

I like the more original cultural examples of the plesiosaurs here

[@DinoDiego16]

Definitely a unique take on them!

[@BigBossMan538]

This project does make me wonder how the rest of life on Earth evolved. Just from a curious perspective. Would the ancestors of whales take to a different niche or go extinct entirely? How were the Plesiosaurs impacted by Megalodon or a similar shark species? Are hippos still extant being a relative to whales?

[@glarnboudin4462]

I asked about that - got yelled at.

[@frilliflove2424]

@@BigBossMan538 This is actually something I've been toying with!! I was thinking about some descendants becoming very otter-like or perhaps even filling a crocodile niche or some kind of semi-terrestrial lifestyle!!!

[@Gfan2015-o5g]

Great video and a truly awesome project. Absolutely love the idea of plesiosaurs making it to the modern day as they are, in my opinion, the grandest of marine reptiles. Sure, ichthyosaurs got much bigger and lasted longer and the mosasaurs overtook them, but they were a presence in some way from the Triassic until the very end of the Mesozoic. That's special to me.

[@logan_rox210]

God, I hope she does the anurognathids!!! I love those little guys so much. Easily my favorite pterosaur

[@frilliflove2424]

Definitely considering it!!!

[@ShadeMeadows]

We need a movie like that... Like... the What If dinosaurs never went extinct, or not fully.

[@mr.x2567]

That’s what Pixar’s The Good Dinosaur was, and most people hated that.

[@Alejandroigarabide]

​@@mr.x2567The Good Dinosaur was supposed to be exactly that, but it ended up being just "what if dinosaurs were smart, and lived along cavemen and cows".

[@Carlos-bz5oo]

Kinda cliché at this point. Luckily I made a variation: Enantiornithean Earth, where opposite birds survived

[@ShadeMeadows]

@@Alejandroigarabide THIS

[@ShadeMeadows]

@@Carlos-bz5oo I don't see the concept often honestly

[@bacleedon5670]

40:50 😮Memory unlock: “Flipper and Lopaka “

[@lucanigro7316]

We balling Fucking love the CA

[@frilliflove2424]

The CA loves you too

[@lucanigro7316]

@@frilliflove2424 yay!

[@takenname8053]

SUPER NICE Another great Spec-evo project to add to the list!

[@canonbehenna612]

Go see kaimere to see these marine reptiles in a future world

[@DinoDiego16]

Maybe one of these days, I will!

[@canonbehenna612]

@@DinoDiego16 good, and speaking of kaimere you should should do a top 10 dinosaur books that deserve a film or series adaptation

[@Triple_Colors]

"There's no law against the Skipper Dolo, Batman" 💀

[@TacidIacon645]

Very interesting concept and, very peak one would say! Really enjoyed watching this!

[@VictorianTimeTraveler]

Very Cool! She reminds me of my cousin

[@carlsjoberg7110]

Have had thought about what they would have come to of they had time. My favorite animal group after sauropods💯

[@Bunlengthdachshunds]

Day 1 of asking for a breakdown or review of keenan taylors tales of kimere

[@tm43977]

The alternative Mesozoic era

[@primrosevale1995]

I've read this on Frili's site before, but it does make me wonder what happened to whale ancestors in this history. Are they more like otters? Did they return to the land? Who knows?

[@DinoDiego16]

There's definitely a lot more to this world worth exploring. Right now, a lot of what we have is a skeleton of more ideas to come, so who knows? Maybe Frilli will explore more of this area one of these days

[@kinglyzard]

Love the imagination and the fancy names. Well done

[@theacro9108]

For my comic series I also have some speculative biology but I will reveal it later on for one of the characters home world Krighten

[@lorcanmcloughlin3686]

Give me bat wyverns or I hit the pentagon (also she sounds really cool

[@frilliflove2424]

Mayhaps I do share them 👀

[@gojitsar7505]

@@frilliflove2424please do

[@lorcanmcloughlin3686]

@@frilliflove2424 I will mail you a dodo bird if you do (also I might do a pangolin seed world any tips?)

[@robwalsh9843]

It would be interesting if there was a plesiosaur species that actually evolved the Loch Ness Monster/sea serpent neck function.

[@XenoRaptor-98765]

Also how and why the plesiosaurs didn’t go extinct? Did a common ancestor survive the K-T mass extinction or something else?

[@XenoRaptor-98765]

Would these plesiosaurs also nearly hunted to extinction due to industrialization aka the same episode of the whaling industry in our world? During the 1800’s-1900’s.

[@DinoDiego16]

Possibly! Frilli did say that she wanted to explore more historical aspects of the project eventually, so maybe she'll go more in depth with that period in time one of these days

[@Purple3355]

oh no selective breeding is a whole other intelligence bro

[@frilliflove2424]

Yet some people in this reality are still like "Nah, man. It was an accident"

[@UnwantedGhost1-anz25]

I wonder what if the Chicxulub asteroid impact never happened?

[@FeeshUnofficial]

Regarding the end of the video: I'm definitely not against it, I think there could be a world where this happens. However: I would love to know if there's an explanation how plesiosaurs survived the K-Pg extinction and what kind of species would be the survivor

[@frilliflove2424]

My email is open for discussion if you have any questions! 😁

[@battledummie5656]

Hey man, I just wanted to tell you about a book called backwash of the Milky Way by O'Neil De noux. It's about people discovering a planet that still has dinosaurs

[@DinoDiego16]

One of my favorite concepts for dinosaurs! Definitely gotta check it out now

[@MarshalMarrs-eu9yh]

@@DinoDiego16I personally want to see a project that is set in an alternate earth where the Permian extinction never occurs!

[@malekahmed7960]

This peoject is so intriguing

[@Morrison-saber-tooth]

Speaking of paleo content, who waits for paleomedia iceberg part 2?

[@frilliflove2424]

When the Cetacean Alternative gets popular enough for Curious Archive to cover it /j

[@DinoDiego16]

I'll probs get to it within the next decade or so, idk

[@enzoarayamorales7220]

The ocean would become scarier than it actually already is

[@samanthabronder9861]

the idea of a spec evo project where aprehsotirc aniaml swuamps somthing in human medeia is somhting i didint think about and now making me cruiso of how other speucltive species replaces somthign of mediea

[@rileymanders2167]

stay safe

[@rileymanders2167]

so good

[@idiotgoddess2114]

Oh shit, the trout population!

[@brandonlrushman2870]

I mean! Plesiosaurs would be the logical answer to sea serpents all over our world. And they all pretty much match the same look! 🥂

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

(Me thinking about water saurians surviving to bronze age) Pleiosaur = MAGNIFICENT, WAR STEED!! I WILL LEASH THEM TO MY PHARAONIC OCTAREME WARSHIPS! CRY HAVOC AND LET SIP THE SAURIANS OF WAR!

[@remuslazar2033]

You would pull a House of the Plesiosaur, instead of the dragon

[@kelleyohora637]

No whale but yes short necked plesiosaur

[@aidananandanabdullah8886]

Who tf keeps changing the timeline😭😭😭 ain't no way somemone stopped the cretaceous mass extinction from happening. Humans and whales are absolutely cooked🗣🔥🔥🔥💀💀💀

[@nicodemusedwards6931]

Imagine a world where non-avian dinosaurs survived but kept evolving to be more bird like to the point most cultures just look at them and say: “Oh yeah, the land birds. Some big birds on two legs, some on four.” Like all dinosaurs are land birds in the same way bats are flying rats.

[@keenanmcconnel2451]

Why does the plesiosaur in the thumbnail look like its about to smack the crap outta that bird looking thing?

[@thechameleons7868]

Goms

[@이동연-c6d]

6:20 Where can I found this website?

[@DinoDiego16]

I have it linked in the description

[@viniciusjose8763]

Would be cool if there were some species with a big head and a small neck.

[@Spideysuperiorfoe]

Yo dude! I was banned from your discord ages ago and the mods never got back to me on why

[@samanthabronder9861]

the choncptof a aniaml repalce somthign that has alot of pop culture stuff is somthign i never thought of

[@ddino5050]

Even if the KT extinction never happened, I still believe that Plesiosauria would still go extinct. This is because Plesiosauria were losing diversity during the Cretaceous. Around 92-89mya all Pliosauroids and most Plesiosauroids died out. Only 2 lineages survived to the KT (Elasmosaurids & Polycotylids). I think it's more realistic that the last Plesiosaurs would die out during the PETM or at the latest Eocene-Oligocene Transition..... Remember they were very diverse during the Aptian but declined until only 2 families (with a small number of genera) exist by 66mya.

[@DinoDiego16]

Assuming extinction may be realistic, but that's a boring type of realistic. I'll gladly take the direction this spec evo project took instead

[@frilliflove2424]

Genuine question, did you hear the "thought experiment" part of this project? It seems as though that's a part a lot of people seem to misunderstand

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

Why would plesiosaurs not go extinct but the Mosasaurs and ammonites would? great idea and concept though.

[@frilliflove2424]

Because this is a thought experiment about if plesiosaurs survived. Not mosasaurs and ammonites. But who knows? Maybe I'll include other survivors at a later date

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

@@frilliflove2424 Ah ok makes sense I just wonder how the end Cretacious extinction event would spare such large megafauna in one case then push other groups to extinction

[@frilliflove2424]

@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Well I have been asked that actually. I imagine it was a much smaller plesiosaur ancestor that was able to thrive in the recovering ecosystem of the post-extinction event

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

@@frilliflove2424 Ah ok makes sense, though I would offer some mild criticism I do love your idea and hope you don't get upset at what I said, I just think if Plesiosaur survived, at the least Ammonites would still be around.

[@frilliflove2424]

@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Don't worry! Not upset, just explaining further!! And as Diego and I have said, the project is barebones rn and I have already considered mentioning other organisms that are still kicking!! Just a matter of how to fit them on the site!! 😄😄

[@soudino2723]

What's your opinion on tales of kaimere?

[@DinoDiego16]

Aside from maybe a few pieces of art, I haven't experienced enough of Tales of Kaimere to have a real opinion on it

[@spamletspamley672]

Looks more like they became penguins to me.

[@kinglyzard]

FREE PADDLES!😊

[@SusanHorowitz-ru4yt]

Neat

[@xandan1668]

The Free Frilli trilogy were pretty good but the fourth one was terrible.

[@DinoDiego16]

Based opinion😎

[@adriannegrete9586]

Why not Mosasaurs? No one seems to talk about them that much. The fun fact is Marine Mammals took the place of Marine Reptiles of the past as Whales like Mosasaurs and Pinnipeds like Plesiosaurs. Of course you think only Mosasaurs gone extinct and not Plesiosaurs but wasn't that feasible because they are closest relatives of Komondo Dragons and Anacondas? I rather imagine Squamates become once again marine predators to the living Plesiosaurs.

[@SpartanTrigger]

Hype

[@superiorcybergodzilla5670]

A whale with a long neck 🐋🦕

[@raquelceballos3202]

Can you do cowboys vs dinosaur

[@channelcatfish7862]

Catfish would've taken over their nice, whales only got as far as they did because they are chill and we let them

[@frilliflove2424]

Catfish are epic ngl

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

I think icthyosaurs were the closest analogies for whales for the longest time, no? With the wide variety of roles and positions in their respective food chains.

[@The_Alt_Vault]

hang on what did she do to Peter

[@Delphink]

Certainly nothing like what happened to the IRL dolphin Peter in the Dolphinarium, right??

[@The_Alt_Vault]

@@Delphink im sure it was worse and or more interesting considering these creatures.

[@Ziyaggy]

Wouldn't pliosaurus such as Liopleurodon also exist in this world...

[@DinoDiego16]

Maybe! Who knows? Frilli might explore more marine animals in future updates

[@edwardsarhuda2595]

Too many dolos😂

[@anindohowlader8377]

Can you make whale that's bigger than blue whale in future ❤

[@frilliflove2424]

You mean a hemot? Because the Leviathan is bigger than the blue whale

[@anindohowlader8377]

Future evaluation a whale not reptile like this

[@PteranodonLongicepsGen1]

Hey diego what if you Made your own seed world

[@DinoDiego16]

It would be nothing but Spinofaaruses

[@PteranodonLongicepsGen1]

@@DinoDiego16 Ah ok

[@jacobobrien40]

15th

[@Ziyaggy]

I know it's speculitive biology, but icthyosaurs were better adapted to and probably filled these roles...

[@DinoDiego16]

Yeah, but we've seen elements of that before. Thought experiments are about creating something that might happen that we haven't seen before

[@frilliflove2424]

A thought experiment is a thought experiment!! And as the video said already, I like plesiosaurs. So I centred the project around them!!

[@Ninjaman176]

make the big funny video

[@magnolia1253]

I dislike the idea that if something is scientifically accurate then it's not fun. I think the fun is figuring out how your art can exist in reality and thus become scientifically accurate. And then I can read about that process instead of just the result. I've seen it too often in my life and it's a real problem. Science isn't fun, history is boring, accuracy stifles creativity... These ideas are inherently false and actually do real harm to society.

[@DinoDiego16]

Her notion isn't that scientific accuracy isn't fun. It's that a project that *solely* focuses on scientific accuracy isn't fun. There are certain elements of these kinds of projects that sound cool to explore but may be blocked by the walls that realism puts in place. Sometimes the way to get over those walls is to be creative about it, which doesn't always translate to scientific accuracy. And that's okay.

[@gustavokloss3645]

For the love of god, stop spelling that hard "R" everytime you end a sentence, it is annoying and it make it obvious that you are reading a short-phrased infested script. Otherwise great video keep it up

[@DinoDiego16]

No, cry about it

[@gustavokloss3645]

@@DinoDiego16 But Izzat El-Reshiq, a member of the political office of Hamas, accused Israel of trying to derail efforts by Arab mediators and the United States to reach a ceasefire deal by stepping up its attacks in the enclave. Saturday's strike in the Khan Younis area of Gaza, in which at least 90 Palestinians were killed, according to local health authorities, has put the ceasefire talks in doubt.

[@glarnboudin4462]

Oh hey, didn't know that you were friends with the author of this project. Some of the choices they made were a bit odd, but it's overall quite a nice little project. I'm eager to see more of it in the future.

[@GambitVampyr]

She's a close friend of mine and Diego's actually and is a big help to the channel. Of course she would have a place here too. Calling this project little is a massive understatement I'd say

[@glarnboudin4462]

@@GambitVampyr I suppose so, yeah. Fair enough.

[@frilliflove2424]

Appreciate the attention. But spec evo in general is very welcoming to "odd" ideas. Be open, be free, and have fun. There's no wrong choices in spec evo. Hope that's something everyone can acknowledge

[@glarnboudin4462]

@@frilliflove2424 I was more referring to the penguins.

[@frilliflove2424]

@glarnboudin4462 That does not change my point, dude. They're included. And as I already shared with you on the forum, I like penguins and I wanted to add them. Hence the "creative liberties".

[@reesearmstrong912]

Bro, it took you over nine minutes to actually show anything it’s just boring science crap my short turn memory brain can’t handle

[@DinoDiego16]

Its a very text-based project for now, which is what it was originally intended as. The art was always secondary but since the project has gotten this far, Frilli is hoping to add more visual representation for her world in the near future

[@TroyTheCatFish]

Highly recommend checking out the Paleo Art of Andy Frazer

[@DinoDiego16]

I have! Dude's art is amazing! Love his stuff

[@TroyTheCatFish]

@@DinoDiego16 he’s one of my all time favorite Paleo Artists, I also love his Dragons of Wales & Novosaur projects

[@DinoDiego16]

​@@TroyTheCatFish Very talented dude. I'd love to take a look at his Project: Tepui artworks one of these days