Dirthamen {Lore - Spoilers All}

[@amandasmith593]

I suspect the relationship was, as the University of Orlais suggested, something without a modern equivalent. Immortal beings likely recognized a distinction between many of the complex relationships we view as single type. The more time you spend with someone, the more the specifics of your relationship are magnified. When you spend thousands of years with them, details we think of as minor can mean a world of difference.

[@wolfancap6897]

You know what would be interesting, if everyone was reading too much into it, and twin souls just means that they were inseparable, like Hawke and Varric. More than just friends but not lovers.

[@josephmoore5422]

It will be very interesting if the elven gods are released they need new bodies and they look for the people most like them and we see them attempt to take Hawke and Varricks body. If they go with Hawke survived the fade if you left him.

[@Ashen.Elixer]

"Twin Souls" could also mean something like what Elder Scrolls has for the god of madness? He's essentially split into two beings, that are sides to himself. A boy and his dog, the base impulses vs the rational thought. It could be that twin soul means that they started as one person, and split into the "good" and "bad" aspects, a la Jekyll and Hyde, at some point

[@abraxis260482]

The idea that one of them could be a spirit in elven form seems to have some merit. Basically imagine Cole, if the human Cole survived. That would certainly result in a...complicated kinship. On a more general note; combining a keeper of secrets with guide for the dead strikes me as more than a little sinister. Secrets and death after all are the hallmarks of spies and assassins, so perhaps that was their role in the time before they started posing as gods? That would raise the question of exactly who the ancient Evanuris were really at war with since one doubts spycraft and assassination are effective tools against literal walking mountains. Side note: a spymaster associated with ravens. Am I crazy or does that sound like Leliana in DAI? No, I'm not saying she *is* one of them, just that it's interesting mirroring of the imagery.

[@majjavonperivian]

There's also the "mystery" of his statue being stabbed and bleeding in the fade (The part of the fade in which the lovely family reunion with OGB Kieran, Flemeth and Morrigan takes place). Another interesting fact is that there are two ravens (you know the Free Marches statues) near the stairs that leads into the Nightmare's lair (Fear demon). But it could be just a coincidence and devs were reusing the same models. No hidden meaning or anything. Still, I always found that interesting.

[@locan9937]

Am i the only one, who sees some kind of higher morality in the gods of death and secrets being best bros? Something like keeping secrets leads to death

[@toffeecrisp2146]

And the best kept secrets are those that are taken to the grave.

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

I was thinking more that what happens after death is an eternal secret

[@Aracknia]

On the twin souls thing I have two ideas that came to mind. First is that they were a single spirit at some point that was split into two new spirits, either on purpose or by accident/trauma of some kind. The other is more simple but not uncommon in the real world, that they were born as twins and shared a soul between them, explaining their nigh-inseparable nature.

[@Aidan_Brink]

"Twin Souls" may simply refer to the two being like-minded individuals. "Of the same mind", as it were. From that, I can kinda' see how people would get that they were more than just what they were.

[@Doc_Aspy]

Culturally, in rl, twin souls are referred to as twin flames-if I remember right-are kind of like a soulmate, but it doesn't have to be romantic. It's mostly just someone who understands you at an almost spiritual level. You're in sync with one another in a way that no one else is. Again, doesn't have to be romantic, doesn't even have to be a friendship. It's just someone who just gets it. So, it could be read as soulmates. Romantic or platonic, but if entries refer to them as brothers, then it's likely platonic soulmates, in a way.

[@cheeseman2681]

I need more elven gods, mmmooorrreee

[@th3stainedrose]

So we're back, how was everyone's *insert time frame here*? (yes I'm looking at you people years in the future with DA4)

[@wolfancap6897]

To quote Sarah Ryder: "Wait what?"

[@th3stainedrose]

@@wolfancap6897 Yes.

[@BelieveIt1051]

They are kind of like Myaja and Lucjan, except Falon'Din and Dirthamen are identical twins. So they probably consider themselves to be part of the same being, even though they are separate entities. My theory is that their connection is how they managed to kill Mythal. The story Solas tells about Mythal bloodying Falon'Din in his own temple was just what Mythal thought happened. Perhaps the one she actually defeated was Dirthamen posing as Falon'Din, and afterward she thought she had defeated Falon'Din. Then at some later point, Falon'Din, posing as Dirthamen managed to kill Mythal by stabbing her in the back. If you have OGB Kieran, the Fade world Flemeth uses to extract Urthemiel displays a Dirthamen statue (or one representing him) with a sword in its back and blood running from it. There is also a Falon'Din representation pointing toward the place where Flemeth and Kieran are (I think). This might symbolize Dirthamen's treachery, as well as Falon'Din's betrayal.

[@Nickz666]

Whispered to trees for some reason. Creation of the original awakened trees?

[@22ribbs]

I think the two are the same person. The qunari change their names based on their job. And the elves have been shown to change their name based on their calling in life. What if this is an ancient example of this practice. This would explain the line that there is some context of ancient Elven life that we do not know of yet. We meaning the rest of thedas but since we had Solace with us at the Temple of mythal we have now that context

[@sonicbolto7]

I wonder if that high dragon was mythal 🤔

[@akislef1706]

It would be very interesting if Dirthamen and Falondin were different personalities of the same person, thus making coexistence unavoidable and even influencing one another!

[@GreenblackGBG]

Dirthamen is another name for the old god Dumat. Mark my words.

[@OMorningStar]

Theory: Elgar'nan is a hybrid. Dirthamen and Falon'din aren't the same species or (type). One elven like, the other spirit like. Twin souls: A boy and his dog, a boy and his robot,... etc. Solas: man and the Ai's : The point? Solas is preoccupied with spirits. Secrets can = pride : a link ? | (birds of a feather flock together) ? "Falon'din's appetite for adulation was so great" -Solas. "Mythal railled the gods, once the shadow of Falon'din hunger stretched across her own people" I know your doubt: the full quote: "Falon'din's appetite for adulation was so great, he began wars to amass more worshipers" Me: Who remembers the brick makers? As tradition we are told stories or prayers of the suppos-ed greats ; parables of the villains, the ambiguous,...etc. How easily a message changes through word of mouth from one ear to another. -- Then again it's just a lame theory, my lame theory -- O Morning Star (my lament)

[@sonofearthandsky7036]

two halves of the same whole. what lies beyond death is always a secret. a secret many try to guess, but few if any hold the answers.

[@brianeads5572]

I've been think along the lines of split personalities or like you said a type of Andres/justice type thing for a while especially if elves are connected to spirits like I think they are. Plus I also subscribe to the eleven pantheon and the old gods as the same, so I find the idea of one dragon being two separate gods interesting, just seeing a two headed dragon cause fade logic and if that's the case ooo looking to see a double arch deamon blight in the future.

[@haitai927]

What if it was like Peter Pan and his shadow but more complex, sort of how Cole took Cole’s form and memories, it sort of gives you the idea that every organic being has a copy of itself in the fade in the form of their personality, pride, compassion, desire etc hence the belief that when you die your soul is taken to the fade, it would also explain Justinias appearance as well

[@WinteringHeart]

I always looked at Dirthamen and Falon’Din like the elfy version of the Native American Two Spirit. In indigenous cultures, Two Spirits are said to have both a male and female spirit and thus may fulfill roles uncommon for their gender. A woman hunting, a man weaving, etc. It’s kind of evolved since the 80s, but I digress. Given how much history has been lost or changed in Thedas and how little we really know, some spin on this wouldn’t surprise me.

[@jakesmith5713]

Could the twinsouls be about cuessing growth and change in eachother like Falondin changed and became powerful among the dead Dirthamen gained his ravens

[@Caposaurus]

I don’t think this is true but while listening, I had a thought that maybe the ‘twin souls’ refers to twin souls in one body. Other is shadow and the other reflection, like in the codex entry. Which in turn reminds me of the stories you sometimes get of twin fetuses becoming only one during pregnancy, and stories of how children who were meant to have a twin at birth but didn’t, talk to someone the parents can not see. Now, I don’t really believe this is the case but it was a funny thought that came to mind while listening. Maybe twin souls refers to one soul broken in two. Two spirits? Who knows ~

[@gaigelarry]

The Relationship of Twin Souls.. During it's description my mind came to Leliana's relationship with Divine Justinia Leliana was "Devoted to her" .. But certainly not in a romantic way.. You could say *This* relationship "goes beyond friendship", mums the romance.

[@katate13]

I just realized something, and maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Veil created to lock the gods in the fade? And if so how did Falon’din go past the Veil into the fade?

[@jaimyvandijk1739]

Yes! I was wondering about exactly the same thing

[@genghis_conz]

Dirthamen is my favorite

[@Felsenkeks]

I dont quite understand why their relationship needs such complex explanations. they were two codependant spirits who did everything together, including manifesting into bodies and becoming gods. ok cool.

[@armyof2ninjas381]

Got a secret gotta keep it

[@windingroadelven]

If he was an elven god why wasn’t he allowed to take on a divine form reserved for gods if he was one himself

[@bgcvetan]

This is probably wrong, but considering that all elven gods have malicious intends towards one another, and in solas final meeting in the dlc, says that Mythal was the best of them, so i guess they weren't lovers, but rather RIVALS fulfilling the similar roles that one can fullfill without the other and there was a power struggle, closest thing that comes to mind is Baker and Cook, similar, can fullfil each other duties, but they are not exacly the same.

[@grandadmiral8173]

Random theory: the old gods are servents of the god of death seeking vengence on the world for solas usurping

[@sveipr]

They were not actually family or lovers, but they were twin souls with a bond that went beyond friendship. Could it be that they were both born from the same individual spirit? That way they are still twin souls, but they came from the same spirit (thus a bond beyond friendship that modern thedas doesn't understand). Would it be possible to say that a spirit, maybe wisdom, when becoming a physical body actually managed to split itself and become two physical beings? Since texts about them go so far back maybe they were the first elves to be born after Elgarnan and Mythal.

[@FlukasMcDoogle]

I always wanted to be one of the first to comment so I could say... I forgot. It's probably a secret. :P

[@deansheets]

I think leliana is dirthaman