Disc Wheel Vs Deep Section | Which Wheel Should You Race With?

How much faster are disc wheels compared to deep sections? Are aerodynamics always more important than weight? Can disc wheels keep up on a climb? In this video, we answer all this and much more!
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In association with Enve.
Back in the 1980’s, Francesco Moser broke the cycling world hour record on the track whilst riding front and rear disc wheels. This was more or less the first major use of disc wheels - and in some style. As a result, disc wheels then began to become very popular. Triathletes were quick to use them, but probably still not quite as much as with our fully dedicated time trial friends.
With the release of the new Enve disc wheel, we wanted to check out what all the fuss was about and find out how much faster a disc wheel really is!
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[@gtn]

Have you ever ridden a disc wheel? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below 👇

[@motosportadv8177]

Global Triathlon Network nope I haven’t ridden a disc wheel , But Enve is made in my hometown Yes! Right yes can we get a big shout out to enve for sponsoring this great KZbin channel!!!👍🤟😊

[@brettzimmerman9326]

What goes up must come down.... what are the aerodynamic advantages of a disc vs deep section wheel on the descent? Will that time lost going uphill be made up going downhill?

[@Bluesman2509]

Use 404s for TT work...decently quick!

[@kakarot2430]

I am using disc cover, is that counted? I'll never put that off again... It looks fast and most importantly, it looks cool...

[@omardgardiner2225]

@@kakarot2430 why not?

[@jreder25]

Easy decision... Cant afford either!

[@alejocastellazzi9053]

Great Video. You find out that disc is faster in flat courses for 200 W and 300 W but then at the end you say that it is only faster when you ride over 43 km/h, but neither 200 or 300 w will get an average of 43 km/h. I am confused.

[@matejburian3191]

If your CdA is reasonably low then 300w give you avg speed over 45km/h easily

[@timvanmonero2720]

Frodo and lionel do 310/320W avg and bang 44/45kmh avg

[@conecrazy]

I used a HED disc at Galveston, TX 70.3 where there is a constant crosswind coming from the gulf. I found it to be stable. I raced with both a 30mm front and a 60mm front. It was the front end of the bike that you have to be mindful of but the back felt stable.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I honestly wish HED made their new 180 as a front wheel. I've used a front disc on a fairly windy day on a velodrome and managed pretty well. It was for short races but for a TT with a bit less wind, I think I'd be pretty happy with it. I just wouldn't wanna focus on stability with one for a long event when my eyes are popping out of my head for ~50min

[@z4k1_zaki65]

Those glasses......😂

[@jamesdacus7367]

i like em

[@cricket12ish]

Looking like riff Raff and Theo von at the same time...

[@borrisjung8049]

I ride all the time a disc wheel and I can't understand why people say it's difficult to control in crosswinds. A 80mm front wheel can be difficult to control. That is what I feel, never had a problem with my disc wheel, not even in ZA Port Elisabeth, it was the front wheel stopping me going faster or forced me to break...

[@kakarot2430]

I've never used a high profile front file, but I am using disc cover on my only Roadbike. It really feels okay...

[@nestummutsen5251]

Do ypu own airpods?

[@pascal.mueller]

100% agree on both, disc and front wheel. I ride the disc literally in all conditions...no problem. I'd change the front to a shallower option way before changing the disc. The more sidewind, the more you profit!

[@kajet666]

I'm glad that sponsors are covering (at least some of) the costs of running this awesome channel for us. For the comments section, forgive me for mentioning the option to purchase a $100 aerojacket you can put on and take off your deep section rim, if compatible...

[@TheBlablubb1989]

I understand, you’re Roka-Sponsored, but please take those glasses of when you’re not on the bikes 🙈

[@drewquarrie2116]

Lol, looks like Roka took their idea from the old Oakley eyshades from the '80s, lol

[@smb06]

The sun doesn't stop shining just because they're off their bike???

[@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess]

They look like the stereotypical douchebag cyclist

[@funkyfinnegan]

Glasses are hideous

[@bryansehl1887]

Excellent and informative video. Thank you!!

[@veloriderkm]

Without knowing what the hub internals are on the Disc rear, this may or may not be an accurate comparison and in response to the 43km/h threshold, Heather would have been travelling below that speed at 200W yet shaved time on the flat 5k which translates to a much greater time saved over a longer course. To anyone considering this as an upgrade I would say this: If you can manage a w/kg greater than 3 for the duration of a bike leg, and it's relatively flat, go for it.

[@12zaf1]

5km at 40kmh takes 7min30sec. The girl rode 38.3kmh deep section, yet she gained over a sec per km. The boy rode @ 42.6 without disc and gained 2.5 sec per km. Still this test is unlikely to be quantitatively reliable given the cars creating inconsistent draft.

[@kajet666]

Give me a break. If it's relatively flat, what's the significance of watts per kilo?

[@veloriderkm]

I prefer to use w/kg as 200W translates differently for short, tall, thin, clyde, etc but you're right in assuming it doesn't matter as much on a flat course so I suppose I should have said W/CdA.

[@jhands1988]

Not really. The best hubs compared to entry level hubs may save .5 watts at most.

[@jason200912]

The hub? Generally the ratchet doesn't do anything except assist with a stop to start takeoff for a fraction of a second

[@phxrsx]

Should have threw in a $100 plastic disk wheel cover test for good measure.

[@gtn]

That would have been an interesting comparison, maybe one for a future video.

[@phxrsx]

opwan the results might surprise you.

[@satpalmodinagar7172]

It's really work I ride many times.

[@bobbysilver272]

I do TT's and I learn more from your videos than I do from the GCN team. Thank you both.

[@markthrelfall3577]

Thank you Bobby

[@craigboggon636]

great video! full of information and funny faces! :) Would love to have a disc wheel!

[@retroonhisbikes]

Only had three rides with my deep section wheels (Zipp 808) maybe it’s just me, but I feel that when a gust of wind first hits the wheel, the wheels tend to get sucked into wind rather than being pushed with the wind. I’m no way near being a fast rider but my average speed has increased by 0.5mph since fitting the deep section wheels.

[@StefaanDefever]

In a race, you generally descend back which would probably cancel out any negative effect you get from going uphill. I'm not anywhere near the top of my age group but I find a disc to be faster on almost all courses. On the safety issue I feel a deep section front will cause you more problems than a disc.

[@markthrelfall3577]

I have to agree with both of your points. Some people do find them hard to ride in strong winds, but I'm definitely with you

[@msiviter]

Of course you are correct. This was a really unscientific test-a hill climb! No descent! Every triathlon I've ever done (not Leeds or staffs) had t1 near t2 so what went up came down. Disc wheels always faster.

[@andy-the-gardener]

rule of thumb is aero always trumps weight. thus, always ride a recumbent. aero disk wheels on a lowracer is what you want

[@DoomNerd67200]

I mean only if the descend isn't narrow and full of corners!

[@Karan02256]

I use disc wheels for common training and thats superb even in windy day😊

[@srbmckenzie]

Interesting that pretty much every other disc wheel manufacturer reckon 23 mph is the crossover point... and it’s not as if that disc looks any different to Zipp, Reynolds etc... they all weigh pretty much the same too! The advice is pretty solid though but consider the overall course terrain, 56 or 112 miles... you’re still likely to benefit overall unless it is Wales!

[@LewisRawlinson30]

Shout out for custom made disc covers. I'm getting most of the disc wheel benefit for only 265g extra weight. Only cost me £11 to make too.

[@kajet666]

Wow, Heather cut her time on the flat by 1.5% at ~38 km/h, whereas Mark, travelling about 43 km/h, reduced his time by 3%. Double the gain. I'm not at all surprised at the difference. But Heather's gain is significant, too - translates to about a minute in an Olympic tri on a similar course if you can hold 38 km/h. By the way, it was not a flat course if she needed 250 watts to achieve this speed. I ride a similar speed at 250 w on inferior equipment and obviously I'm quite a bit larger (larger bike frame, too).

[@borismarkus2520]

I ride both a disk and deep section wheels. I am lucky to be able to ride a disk wheel that is only 780g. I find for the same power over 56 miles I ride about 1-1.5 miles per hour faster then with just the deep section wheel. The only issue I have is in very strong cross winds, but even with that it’s more of an issue when I ride 80mm in the front. I’m a bigger rider so maybe that’s a major contributor to my situation.

[@torbis75]

That was a lot. Have got just Zipp 404`s, so with a disc I should be significantly faster. 1miles per hour is 1,6km/h . Thats tremendous amount og free speed. Takes 30w to gain the same extra speed for me.

[@thepatternforms859]

808s for me front and back!

[@jlems56]

So, if I have a chance to use a disk vs. regular deep dish on a 16 mile course, with mild rollers would you use a disk. Plan on holding 285 watts for the race.

[@chrisdusi]

it dont matter so much the wheels, these videos are great but they all paid for by the brands punting their product, I have zipps and cheap alloy rims and honestly I still scratch my head over any amazing benefit besides looks. a fast rider will still be fast on anything

[@rogerc23]

Let me guess you think the earth is flat too right ?

[@torbis75]

I had cheap alloys and zip 404`s, not disc though, but at 43km/h I recorded approximately 0,3km/h difference on the flats.......Not much. And they say a disc does 1-1,5miles per hour. Thats a lot..

[@vincentterrier3667]

Good video, but I have a question though: what was your speed on the flat at 200W and at 300W? Where you both faster than 43 km/h? Because at the end you say that it is only faster when you ride over 43 km/h of average so I'm confused about the 200W....

[@Bigjuergo]

gtn is shit

[@LarsRR]

Bigjuergo great comment 😂

[@BenjaminBriu]

The videos look better when y’all together!! Haha

[@gtn]

Thanks!

[@MrShoji5150]

How about tri spoke wheel vs deep rim wheel??

[@rogerc23]

Isn’t it already confusing enough lol?

[@iivv_nn]

Trispoke is fastest wheel ever tested

[@nickdudesville5154]

when I was a kid in the '80s I had a Huffy Sigma BMXish bike that had "racing disc" wheels , i thought they were cool until I realized it was just plastic covering a regular wheel.

[@sireevessireeves5072]

Those Enves are so good looking.

[@gtn]

They're so nice to ride too!

[@XavierBetoN]

You should've compared that with dual disc bicycle, since most of the aero forces are applied into front wheel.

[@blauwzakjecrack]

A deep wheel cannot create a sail effect, if it could ,the effect would be countered because the wheel is symetrical. I have deep disk wheels, and recently bought a full disk rear wheel, also used to own a couple of sail boats.

[@jonathanzappala]

Ok nobody can feel 200g up a hill. Empty your water bottle you’ll save more weight. You should have just used best bike split. Never mind enve’s junk numbers on disc wheels. Disc’s are always faster period. They provide more benefit for slower riders. And enve is the only company that says otherwise. Never mind the completely wrong fact about disc wheels being harder to use in crosswinds.

[@Flashback_Jack]

I've seen a lot of these videos and the conclusion I draw after watching them all is that after around 60mm you're not gaining a whole lot of aero advtantage. 60 seems to be the sweet spot.

[@terasing5574]

how about wind force from side you bike ?

[@ozan3076]

Maan I just came back from therapy to my addiction to carbon parts shieeeet

[@simedinson984]

well back in it i guess and you could gift me some carbon stuff instaed :)

[@gtn]

Sorry!

[@simedinson984]

@@gtn are you really thou who doesnt like new stuff

[@drewquarrie2116]

I have a disc Zipp 900 disc and Zipp 808, personally the disc is faster, not just because of the aero, but more efficient power transfer

[@iyan5869]

may i ask you guys, is a solid disc wheel compatible with brake pads?

[@pascal.mueller]

Yes. I use the same pads for my zipp 808 and super 9 disc. The disc is a bit wider though. One turn on the adjustement screw, done.

[@ggoneable]

This is all so wrong. A disc wheel is faster, the more crosswinds there are and it doesnt give u lot of advantage if theres none. Crosswinds generate the sail effect. The same goes for deep section wheels but at lower yaw angles. Of course, they're harder to control. And a disc wheel's faster on almost every course, as the uphill parts always take less time then the flat and downhill sections (we're not talking about hill races...).

[@markthrelfall3577]

I think that's what we say, no? We say that disc wheels are faster. We used the disc wheel on a gradient of over 6% as an extreme and show it is a disadvantage there. I would agree, any hilly course with gradients less than 6%, or even just short steep hills...a disc wheel will still be faster and outweigh any time lost on those short steep hills. I would choose a disc wheel for most races. We do get some extremely hilly races in Europe though, and for those I would not. In short, I'm agreeing with you, as we did in the video

[@ggoneable]

​@@markthrelfall3577 If I'm honest, I'm impressed by you giving an answer. Thank you! I have to admit that it isn't all so wrong. I should have addressed Enve instead of your video. They always stated disc wheels are slower than their deep section line up but as many (sponsored) pro and age group athletes are asking for disc wheels they had to react. They just don't want to admit that they were wrong. This is a bit ridiculous and it lead me to the criticism. In my opinion there is no reason to use a regular deep section rear wheel instead of a disc rear wheel in any triathlon race. If you're allowed to.

[@markthrelfall3577]

ggoneable its all good, thanks for watching. I just wanted to make sure it was understood from our video. I agree with you, I would always ride a disc if I have the option to

[@duanevigue1603]

If the conditions arent IDENTICAL, ie., wind speed & direction, cadence, watts, etc., then the whole "test" is useless. But for the sake or argument, its pretty clear from multiple tests that discs really dont give you an edge as there are too many variables. If you are on an absolutely flat or downhill section with absolutely no wind, theyre faster. Anything else, theyre slower, so the whole thing is a wash. You wanna run them because they look cool, go for it. I run a DIY aero cover on my rear wheel simply because I like it.

[@jackharley8564]

For the record, 3 watts saving from the disc wheel is less than shaving the hair on your arms, which is 4 watts saving and free :)

[@conecrazy]

What about headwinds? Aren't you technically going 27 MPH if you're going into a strong headwind? ;)

[@gerjenvd7129]

Must be convenient to wear the same glasses in the water as on the bike. You forgot the snorkel though.

[@muserlz]

Soundtrack courtesy of Talbot Cox

[@BFinesilver2]

88mm rear wins. Even closer to a disc over the flat, better up hills, not as dangerous in crosswinds.

[@richturner7834]

Glasses look ridiculous

[@shikaotewarrior]

So I'm guessing you've never used them? I have some of those glasses and they are the best cycling glasses I've ever used. Plus, even if you aren't riding the wrap is amazing and especially the high front area which expands vision way more. They do look a bit big while just standing around, but they are amazing to wear.

[@pedalingadventures7122]

But cycling shorts, jerseys, socks and mushroomhead helmets don’t look ridiculous? Lol

[@thomassarda8207]

Envie wheels only suit you if you are rich lmao

[@marekczarnecki5388]

So upset with this !! I was all set to buy a disc - but then you go and tell me simply, 'won't make a difference below 42kph' Boo! I will never experience the fabled 'whoomp! whoomp!' 😢😢 I suppose I could try using some of the smaller cogs on my cassette.

[@ozan3076]

Does disc wheel more flimsy against pot holes than deep section wheels?

[@IanLoughead]

Usually they are more solid. Some dish wheels (like HED) are actually internally spoked with a fairing.

[@StefaanDefever]

I ride cobbled climbs on them without thinking about it. They are usually very strong!

[@pascal.mueller]

Nope, not at all. I have almost 10'000km on my Super 9 clincher and its literally like new. I use it not only for races, but almost always for training. About the only way it is flimsy is if you'd lay it sideways and put something pointy on it (eg in a car). Basically its different only in two ways: - the ride may be a tiny little bit harsher, since there are no spokes which damp a little - it has more flex when standing up and rocking side to side Wind is absolutely no problem, as long as its more or less steady. No matter the speed. Quite the opposite: the more wind from the side, the bigger the sail effect! If you have strong (and i mean STRONG!) gusts though, then you'll need the skills. And one thing they didn't mention in the video: no matter if it actually makes you faster...there is NOTHING like the sound of a disc wheel ;D! Even at the same speed you'll feel at least 10kph faster :D:D!!!

[@ozan3076]

@@pascal.mueller wow thanks for writing man I love the sound of deep wheels but you are right it is something better :) that road sound ush ush ush ush also the hub trktrktrktrk like symphony :D

[@leopers9225]

You can really tell whos bike was fitted professionally.

[@kamakiri307]

@Treez 93 look at their elbows

[@charlesroberts2166]

Oh come on guys ... those glasses ... are going cycling or skiing ?? Also, they aren't necessary when talking to camera. smh :-(

[@gtn]

Apologies, it was really bright out in Kona!

[@peterliljebladh]

What about the other way? What goes up must come down.

[@MrRoman7979]

Good ideal for cyclist tq awesome

[@cliffordromina3527]

Neglected one big variable, "placebo effect".. You guys may already expected the feeling and result before even starting the experiment, that can have a psycological effect..

[@zinsch5588]

But they had power meters to keep effort constant. Also, placebo effect still counts on race day.

[@phila9288]

Wait so we don't get to hear the sound of the disk?

[@RomainLussier]

When not riding, please remove your glasses. Great video!

[@smb06]

The sun is still shining... being on the bike doesn't change that.

[@iivv_nn]

Fyi; aero helmets, shoe covers, positioning, skin suits, deep section front wheel all save you more time than a disc. The disc is the least cost effective

[@husnainanwaar1992]

Lesson 12 - The Strange Behavior of Rolling Things - Demonstrations in Physics

[@XavierBetoN]

Why haven't you tried downhill, the real benefit of aero discs and make it double wheel?

[@TheKauaiboyz51]

those glasses tho 😂😂😂. especially on the chick. women have a lot smaller faces than men do and she looks hilarious!

[@sharkdom]

New glasses sponsor???

[@gtn]

We've had Roka glasses for a while, we just got some new ones out in Kona!

[@Bendersnatchling]

I'm sorry for getting into the habit of criticizing you guys, because I do like your channel. But riding so close to a car in order to film is not the best idea if you want to create data concerning drag.

[@davidovgoose3224]

Yeah, you're right. Maybe they just shouldn't bother. Not film it at all, thats the answer! Get a grip mate.

[@Bendersnatchling]

I'd expect them to have a good camera. Just drive 20m ahead, as you have to at Challenge Samorin, and zoom in.

[@ahmadbassem2077]

The just get clips Not necessarily the real run

[@Bendersnatchling]

@@ahmadbassem2077 Good point actually, but misleading.

[@graphics_dev5918]

@@ahmadbassem2077 Except they care about more views than science, so that very well could be the real run.

[@elliotfolke836]

disc both front and rear

[@LarsRR]

Elliot Folke basically not allowed anywhere and impossible to handle when windy.

[@elliotfolke836]

@@LarsRR ask laurent fignon But it did not work...

[@michaelkennedy9064]

Enve doing disc now?

[@gtn]

Yes!!

[@jackhammer40k_]

You look like Cylons

[@BasicTravel1]

Good info. But those glasses. Cannot take anything you say seriously if looking like that in from of the camera.

[@arisgemino]

Im not sure a few seconds early for work can warrant the price for someone poor like me lol

[@jamesd5241]

Great ad for those amazing wheels, not a good ad for those glasses

[@gtn]

The wheels are awesome, so nice to ride!

[@cyclingschannel]

You haven't used the same tires!This isn't correct results!And following cars ?? Not correct results!

[@satryadaffa2984]

Giveaway please

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

So is it the rider or the equipment? Only track cycling is the answer since they use the same equipment. Road cycling is a mess right now with 6.8 kg bikes that is just embarrassing. If UCI would move bike weights to 10 kg riders would have to adjust their body training and get bigger. Road cycling is like watching horse racing with the midgets on top lol.

[@jamesd5241]

Say whatever you want about wheels, ENVE are the fastest full stop. pro cyclists all want them if you ask them, but most cant say for sponsor contracts. in all wind tunnel tests they are best, on road they feel the best and online they cost the most!

[@raphaeltiziani7476]

I want them also. Sadly my bank account says no.

[@gtn]

They're certainly quick (and look great too)!

[@scpromark]

What nonsense about Disc wheels harder to control in wind. That’s a myth that has long been busted. Control comes from the front wheel not the back which is anchored to the road. Come on guys get up to date

[@paulrogers971]

Great video but what’s with doing all the commentary with your helmets and sunnies on even in the car??? Looks a bit ridiculous...

[@kenny347]

It suits u when u are rich or having a rich dad .

[@mc4952]

True , rich or rich dad can buy a roadbike easily decision 😭

[@aounjose]

Very unscientific test.

[@ItsMissMacintosh]

BS

[@Ditypo]

lol those stupid massive glasses

[@nicksmacro]

I spent time as a race car mechanic in a previous life. It's job 1 to reduce any rotating weight first, then you go looking for static weight. The disk not only offers more static weight, but more importantly, it adds rotating weight. (Eating up double the power).

[@ryanotte6737]

Isn't the trade-off though a small increase in rotating mass for a significant aero gain? Furthermore, in their style of cycling they tend to maintain a rather constant speed, hence the rotational mass isn't consuming much power in order to spin up to speed, right? Auto racing, yes, performance and handling is adversely affected by too much rotational or unsprung weight, but here they are often accelerating once up to a speed that they try to keep constant over the distance and not worrying too much about handling around tight curves.

[@u3962521]

They are the ugliest sunglasses I have EVER seen

[@Ton7o]

Glasses do not look cool Heather - way too big for your face.