Discharge Defense in Factorio is Overpowered!

[@AVADIIStrategy]

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[@EricJohnsonGuru]

Only time I have ever used discharge defense was when I played factorio story missions and they made you use it.

[@deron5290]

Wait they added story missions? Not just few tutorial maps like before?

[@BARTR815]

​@@deron5290 its a mod

[@peterschmidt1900]

@@deron5290 It is a mod. That adds singleplayer missions, and mods nothing else. And the steam store page actually uses a video from that mod! So amazing!

[@1qazxsw23edcish]

What makes discharge defence good is it can hit an unlimited number of enemies with each shot, as opposed to laser defence that can only focus one target at a time. So even if discharge ends up being inefficient on a single target basis, dealing damage to 3 or so nests at once gives it a very high net DPS.

[@AVADIIStrategy]

Exactly. Personal lasers have so much trouble killing spawners now. And if they hit them they can't defend you from spitters at the same time. It's really only viable in the late game now with A LOT of laser upgrades.

[@demonx3779]

Too bad discharge defence is manual and I can't throw any other capsules or whatever if I am to use it. So nah, lasers it is

[@AVADIIStrategy]

@@demonx3779 You can. Just have to switch weapons on button press. Yeah it's more effort but nothing Dota or League of Legends players do all the time ;)

[@johndoe-fy6jz]

@@demonx3779 There's a mod for discharge defense that makes it activate automatically Automatic Discharge Defense by asher_sky

[@mnm8818]

Rant add, though a basic boring tank can clear 100biter nests if you want to spend 30mins shooting and circling... you "could" have 1000 biters on you and just clean them up (though it has very low health)... So what's the point of other stuff??? Just asking, as everything else seems way to complicated... Putting down laser, swapping solar panels etc

[@zeferoth225224]

Again people sleeping on defender robots. Seriously those things are insanely strong

[@Fighter_Blue]

so true

[@makeandbreakgames1791]

I know i never automated them before but now i spam 20 or so distractors and leave the nest to die

[@panzervpl9406]

at the point you have a tank it's usually enough and drones can make it even stronger together with poison

[@suhodryshev]

I think it's OP, so I don't use it

[@Laci11280]

They look bad tho, they would need a sprite update for me to consider ever using them

[@meedrowh1809]

Lately, there was a post on the Factorio subreddit of a person killing a demolisher with Discharge Defense. This made me realize that it's a perfect weapon for them due to demolishers' very low innate electric resistance (20/20% or smth)

[@goofyahhchickenofficial7602]

oh yeah, I used discharge with destroyers and it melts

[@heyhoe168]

Definitely would be helpful but I doubt it is op against demolishers. Too much of a dps/regen gap.

[@thomac]

the 20 flat defense pretty much disqualifies destroyer capsules, otherwise they would also be an interesting option to try. Realistically though, tesla turrets seem the best option in the electric damage department.

[@jvaler5]

@@thomac any level of electric damage bonus lets them surpass the flat defence, on top of if you use a >normal quality capsule

[@Garagantua]

@@heyhoe168 I think the discharge defense hits *all* segments within reach with every discharge. So it's not only doing ((100-20)*0.8=) 64 dmg to the head, it can deal that damage to several segments at once. (Haven't yet tried it though. I had a Q3 tank & uranium shells with me, and the small demolishers were... not a problem.)

[@KeithOlson]

...and now add a 'defender morningstar' to the mix. By rotating in small circles, you can force them to rotate in large ones. They aren't very expensive and a cloud of a couple of dozen goes through a biter nest like a buzzsaw of murder hornets. I actually circle in the car or tank for more armour.

[@teorloges315]

personal lasers were too op but the nerf was insane but being able to put it on a tank offsets it tank goes brrr, no ammo needed

[@AVADIIStrategy]

Laser damage will still be bad. But you can use discharge in a tank also. 100 damage on all enemies around you per shot.

[@khkpck]

shields for the tank grid and lasers for ur armor grid

[@hellsonfireheart1086]

@@khkpck you dont need shields if you have exoskeletons in the tank and dodging everything (how does this even work)

[@noelka8134]

​@@hellsonfireheart1086 tank with legs tank with legs

[@nishtanishto2809]

Does what ever tank with legs does

[@dlearn863]

I would like the developers to make the electric discharge protection automatically trigger when the shields are lost, without consuming energy (it stores energy for 1 such discharge). Such a function would make this thing much more useful. When the shields are running out, I grab the fish so as not to die, I don't have enough time to switch to protection and then to the fish.

[@jimmyiscool1239]

Shortkey?

[@mestevesx]

With the upgraded nests, and nerfs in the laser defence and vehicle ramming (tank killing nests will be destroyed in 2 nests or so) I have found new justification to use the rest of factorio's arsenal, had to go on a crusade for oil very early in a dangerous map, and my setup was bringing in 4 discharge defences, 3 shields, rest in batteries, plus I used Defender capsules for sustained dps and distractor capsules to pull worm attacks before going in on big nests. Also the shotgun is very nice to use, it deals a ton of damage when you can afford to shoot with its recent buffs.

[@coldhardwick]

The destroyer bots + explosive rockets are my go to for nest clearing

[@SomeThingOrMaybeAnother]

Tank drive-bys for me

[@game_miner]

I’ve been doing defenders and explosive rockets personally. (The rare quality rocket launcher having a larger range than every worm other than Behemoth definitely helps)

[@makeandbreakgames1791]

Its basically the new midgame meta, the destroyers melt them and last for multiple nests

[@MintRobin]

This explains a lot. I used to play deathworld and just stomp the enemies with PLD. Then I did PY for a LONG time, and I come back to 2.0 and I'm wondering "was PLD always this weak or do I need more?" 2.0 had so many updated I didn't read everything, so this went past me

[@benoitranque7791]

Discharge defense is fantastic for swarms on gleba

[@gamerflix1218]

Absolutely love the concise information. Keep up the great work.

[@blockchaaain]

I always forget about most weapons the instant I go to a nest. The existence of grenades, drones, capsules, and discharge all disappear from my mind. I just end up shooting tons of SMG ammo.

[@awellner3285]

Combat shotgun is my go to weapon, its also good at clearing rocks!

[@thomac]

@@awellner3285 shotgun is great early game against nests, otherwise the good old SMG is easier to use. honestly I rediscovered the flamethrower in this expansion, especially on the tank, which I always thought was kind of useless.

[@DrBusiness9]

@@thomacnaw the combat shotgun fucks compared tot be normal one.

[@luckylmj]

Defender capsules are even more overpowered. They get buffed by physical damage and weapon shooting speed, which you need to research anyway for spaceships, and each one is worth about a third of a turret full of red ammo. If you get, say, 50 of them (which is possible with just space science, IIRC), it's like you have a group of almost 20 red ammo turrets following you. It's insanely strong. (Also, quality works great on them, as it increases both their range and damage.)

[@Zeerock28]

I've never crafted on of these. Now adding them to my military mall!!

[@oggilein1]

I remember back in the days of factorio 0.16, the discharge defense was terrible and the only cool part was the discharge defense remote being a square jpeg of some lightningbolts, programmer art at its finest

[@spr_]

your mic in previous videos was so bad but now it sounds amazing! great vid

[@vasianduban9995]

it's actually really good against worm on vulcanus lmao

[@not_anton]

Bots all the way. Learned to love them in Industrial Revolution 3 mod where devs removed all favourite toys like personal lasers (made them same tier as spidertron) and even poison capsules. Bots cost resources, but 50 bots following you will erase everything from existence in their attack radius instantly.

[@Tom6-t8c]

I always used DD before 2.0 and it was extremely usefull inside of a tank as a "unstuck button" And even before the update aslong as theres 2 or more enemies or essentially always it deals more dps

[@sawyermccall2370]

2.0 also buffed the tank which also changed mid game combat. I wish poison capsules worked like they did in rampant though where they damage nests.

[@kimkickout]

Before atomic bomb and spidertron, i just use a lot of follower defender robots and use a car to kill biters. This can help me with the early game 😁

[@adon155]

ive been using tank with the explosive cells and that alone has been plenty to clear out nests at 0.89 evo (just before behemoths) with maxed speed and 8-9 damage upgrades, although it also did pretty good before yellow science too iirc. Ofc you could also combine the discharge with tanks

[@michaelcarter3149]

I knew you sounded familiar when i first came across your channel. Also explained why you are so good at factorio. You fancy German science man! As soon as i came across ur science channel I knew immediately lol. Bothered me since ur first factorio video because I knew i heard you somewhere b4.

[@AVADIIStrategy]

Hello sir! I have no idea what you're talking about. But i'm curious now, what science channel?

[@michaelcarter3149]

@AVADIIStrategy well damn! Lol. I swear it sounds just like you. I'll try to find it again and link it in reply. Between it sounding just like you and how intelligent you seem i swore it was you lol.

[@Mernom]

Pro tip: you can blueprint gun turrets with a built in ammo request for your bots to satisfy.

[@maximvoronin1569]

This. Lasers... discharges... *stamp stamp stamp* the nest is dead

[@DimitriWagner]

Devs nerfing and adjusting skills freak me a bit. You can stuff 20 huge drills in one rocket for transport but only 50 red magazines.... Mhmmmmmm :)

[@AVADIIStrategy]

Doesn't make sense but it has to be that way. Otherwise no one would produce ammo on the platform itself. You could just ship red ammo and call it a day.

[@leshiq4214]

I run with 8 DDs and easily clear big stompers along with nests and other one shot staff on Gleba. I take almost no damage from stompers because they are stunned (requires some maneuvering). Tryed on biters - they get pushed to far taking more time to kill - inconvinient. Though I don't care about biters anymore. Nauvis's now only for Uranium.

[@t-ter483]

when playing factorio with my friend I stunlock large enemies with discharge defences while he melts whem with PLDs, it can help in dealling with stompers while clearing out gleba

[@niwoh]

I've tried the discharge defense a couple of days ago when I read the stats, wasn't horrible but not great either, for what it does you have to get too close imho, it works very early on but as soon as there's more spitters and stronger worms it becomes pretty unusable. I fell in love with the flamethrower though, for some reason I never realized the non-turret flamethrower also arcs like the turret version so I always thought it sucks but I was just shooting over the biters, now that I'm using it properly it absolutely destroys biters all the way up to behemoths (the tank flamethrower still sucks though, either that or I'm misunderstanding that one too), so in the early/mid game I'm just using flamethrower and the single target rockets, rockets for nests and big worms, flamethrower for everything else.

[@sillymonkey725]

It's not a bad weapon, especially with the damage bonus research. If it were not for the manual trigger with a remote, I'd use it. It could/should be automatic. "n or more targets nearby = auto trigger", something like that.

[@peterschmidt1900]

They buffed all the weapons that were useless before. I really like it.

[@C0kePlaza]

i noticed destroyer robots are OP aswell. Don't forgot about making legendary rarity suit and weapons!

[@acanadianderg4035]

I found myself using it against the magma worms as they’re not as resistant to electricity as they are lasers

[@ComplexConcept]

Tank with Uranium rounds and any enemy base is gone in less than 10 seconds, sometimes much less.

[@surr3ald3sign]

Love the devs doing everything in their power to try and force us to abuse turret creep and artillary 💀

[@crazypaulshowto7700]

I still prefer a good ol flame thrower and the red rockets, personal lasers are just extra protection.

[@MrObsidiaan]

In Space Age for early offense I prefer rocket launchers and upgrade to rare quality asap for 45 range

[@aleverettes2789]

Had you heard of our lord and savior in 2.0: destroyer capsules?

[@ІгорЛисенко-ж9н]

Two words. Land mines. Set and forget.

[@SkilledOutdoorsman]

Is it good against pentapods?

[@21preend42]

I wonder how quality will affect all of this, more grid space and better damage ?

[@Volvary]

Discharge Defense only gains range with Quality. Your armor gains more space and batteries more capacity, yeah.

[@Xiteri]

Better batteries, shields, equipment grid mainly.

[@alexlc2566]

Step 1 go make explosive Step 2 make Minea Step 3 make an armor have 2 baterys 1 shield and as many exosksleton as yo can Step 4 run in a nest and place mine yo have enought Speedy Step 5 enjoy

[@gafoneo3727]

But why are you not using usual turret power creep? It's insanely op

[@earthvitalutube]

Ok but with your modular armor setup how do the personal batteries get charged?

[@StrangePan]

Did people finally discover the huge damage buff they received like a year ago??

[@hanswurst-h3e]

no, i finally discovered that you can stack multiple lol

[@aleksszukovskis2074]

shouda shown the damage with the upgraded damage

[@bakyra4683]

If oyu want to grab something that got also suprisingly good, try the TANK! It's amaaaaaaaazing now.

[@BinarySecond]

It also seems to be ok(?) against the demolishers

[@alexengineering3754]

i think tankshells are a good mid game weapon in spaceage

[@Exarvi]

even for demolishers (medium too) they are good as long as you have road to run away

[@Hlebuw3k]

They nerfed the already kind of bad strat, but didn't touch the most OP strat in the game. Spam GUN turrets and give them ammo, right on top of the enemy base. Why would I do either of these expensive strats if I can just plop down 10 turrets with 10 mags each and kill the bugs in half the time!

[@niwoh]

It's buffed even, you can put ghost ammo items in the turrets and then copy/blueprint them, so when you place them the bots will automatically put some ammo in

[@necpmf]

who the hell turret creeps with laser turrets

[@netspidercz]

so you can kill up to 1-2 biter nests. How is this overpowered again?

[@CruelViper88]

Time to RNG quality on that

[@rayyf69]

Where do you get this "Deathworld" mod?

[@AVADIIStrategy]

Serious question? It's a preset you can choose when creating a new game. It's not a mod.

[@rayyf69]

@@AVADIIStrategy do you just dial all the settings on biters to max?

[@Masstaran]

I might be stupid but where the hell is the remote for that? I got a discharge defense but i can't use it.

[@angeldude101]

It's no longer crafted and is instead free. You can add a shortcut for creating one to the toolbar or use a key binding. (I don't know the key binding though since I've never used it.)

[@earthvitalutube]

@@angeldude101How about charging the personal batteries, in this video his armor is all batteries and discharge defence. How do these charge? Thanks for any insight.

[@angeldude101]

@@earthvitalutube I'm pretty sure he manually swapped the discharge defence with portable reactors between fights to recharge.

[@earthvitalutube]

@@angeldude101​​⁠ah! Ok I think i'm close to being able to craft those.. i've been bootstrapping my way to asap get better offense and clear biters. Thanks.

[@Daanikduul]

Lasers took 40s to clear out the nest. Discharge took 20s. After all that you saved less than half a minute by using the discharge defense instead of lasers. You then have to switch out your upgrades entirely for solar panels and wait longer than that to recharge fully. This doesn't really save any time because of that and requires more input (clicking the remote).

[@AVADIIStrategy]

The laser setup also had 0 solar panels. Same problem. The laser setup requires you to research 8 speed and damage upgrades (its actually 1550 science total) before having the performance shown in the video. Discharge is a 100 science research, its all about the timing - being able to clear nests quickly as early as possible.

[@alexlowe2054]

Most of the comments are from people who don't understand that this is "overpowered for early blue science". You make the point clear in your video, but some people only read the title before commenting. It might be worth changing the title of the video to better reflect your argument. I've got a good number of damage upgrades to personal laser defenses, and it's quite easy to nuke big biter nests and even behemoths with high quality lasers and a mech suit full of rare equipment. Part of the nerf to lasers is balanced out by how cheap the damage upgrades are, and how many more lasers you can stack together. That, and the new equipment grid for your tank balances out the loss of damage on early lasers. But yeah, that requires a ton of blue science upgrades. Early game, lasers are much weaker. So you need to rely on alternative methods to kill biter nests. The tank, discharge defenses, defender drones, and red ammo will help a ton. It's just a different way to clear biter nests.

[@Exarvi]

How does this perform against fully evolved (90%+) biters

[@MrAlbinocreeper]

Depends on how much you want to spend on reaserch, DD can still work, but you are going to want upgrades.

[@niwoh]

Not great, the range is very short so you're gonna get hit by spitters and the stacking slow is gonna get you killed

[@Exarvi]

so i guess its only use so far is in form of emergency button to push enemies away or for that wriggler spam on gleba (it oneshots them with electric damage 5 iirc)

[@R1po]

Nope. Not good enough. I didn't know about the nerf until today. I feels terrible. I play on max biter settings. The map is red. I skipped the early game pers. laser cleaning to Nukes. I am not at Napalm.

[@2MeterLP]

I still prefer laser + rocket launcher

[@MrGrannyStylez]

I was wondering if it got useful now, thanks for clarifying. great video ❤

[@RoyRope]

Personal laser is useless now...

[@ryaja8445]

I just use the tank.

[@TheGUARDIANOFFOR]

yea combat is totali scrued by the HP changes im rushed right into nukes cause otherwise its booring grind.

[@sakari_119]

Oh no he leaked it :(

[@krongegoire9580]

👍🏻

[@PolandDoge]

so thats why my mk2 laser setup sucked so hard

[@boklasarmarkus]

I just use the tank

[@Seedzification]

well now they gonna nerf it, thanks bye

[@Speed8reaker]

but you can upgrade laser dmg? no thx i take laser :)

[@SinaSoltani-tf8zo]

It's very weak comparing to Personal Laser

[@quercus3290]

rockets

[@yasielfranchi]

👍👍👍

[@StudleyDuderight]

Meh, I'll just stick to using arty. You don't have to worry about getting overwhelmed if you clear nests from the safety of an overpowered defense line.

[@humanbeans4498]

That is significantly later then you get this. He was showing how good this is for only blue sci

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Artillery is locked behind vulcanius and requires importing tungsten plates. Not a deal breaker by any means considering you'll have to export them before finishing the run but it still moves artillery from mid game to late mid game

[@StudleyDuderight]

@simonnachreiner8380 Well that sucks. I haven't had the time to check out Space Age yet, so I wasn't aware they made changes to arty progression. Guess I'll be using my other favorite technique for clearing biters, lots and lots of grenades.

[@niwoh]

@@StudleyDuderight On the other hand, now you get bots plus a couple upgrades for them immediately at blue science

[@alexmannen1991]

delete this video now before they nerf it

[@jbdbruybhdhcy]

Title: Discharge is overpowered Video: Discharge is marginally useful against the medium biters while you could just squish them with a tank. I almost pressed the dislike button, then noticed you only had 40 likes.

[@AVADIIStrategy]

You can actually build a tank and obliterate enemies with discharge from within.

[@jbdbruybhdhcy]

@@AVADIIStrategy That should actually be helpful when the tank gets stuck and surrownded

[@Derpsickle]

wont get any dmg with that equipment grid. no power generation.

[@awellner3285]

You charge them before battle. duh!

[@gcdani271]

First

[@WorldN-z2k]

Вот это проблемы у казуалов 10 ульев не победить