Discovering where A Link to the Past REALLY fits in the Zelda Timeline

[@SambergerTheories]

Another nice video! I will say it’s very unlikely the medallions were made for the master sword specifically given their later reappearance in FSA, although given the context of just the first 3 games that is a reasonable assumption to make. I also personally believe since we never see any other Dwarves in the series, that these “Dwarves” are just Hylians with dwarfism. Looking forward to Link's Awakening!

[@heartnahalf]

I honestly didn't remember the medallions were in FSA, so that's good to know to keep an eye out for!

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Though 2 of them can be only obtained with the Master Sword and are reusable unlike the ones in FSA which are like a Nuke to be used for 1 time only

[@bentaylor176]

Just joined great Zelda series btw. @ about 19:59 there is one extremely long mountain range that could cover the know world to a mid evil lvl society, the Andes. I mean they stretch from Columbia in the north to Chili in the south. So it is possible to have large mountain ranges in the world.

[@marshallballa6911]

Love where you're going with this series!! I'm getting caught up now! For things to look out for: FSA (the GameCube one) appears to have geographical traits that allude to it being a direct prequel to this game. For the next gang game, I really, REALLY want someone to look at the draconic architecture in the water temple and the pillar structure and tell me if I'm crazy for thinking it looks Zonai. As for the split theory, I believe that this game's backstory confirms something I'm going to comment on your next video. Lining up to seeing it!

[@heartnahalf]

Thank you! You are NOT crazy lol, Ive thought the same thing since BOTW came out

[@nivaldowesley666]

i've been playing this game for 15 years, and only this year i discovered that it's possible to get the golden sword! great game, great video! ❤

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Hopefully you didnt go insane in the Final Boss Fight, because as far as I know you cannot beat Ganon without the Golden Sword unless you do spin attacks with the Regular Master Sword, meaning you cannot use the Byrna wand to protect yourself

[@nivaldowesley666]

@@Chris-gx1ei yes, exactly! i aways beat hin with the spin attack and four blue potions! 😅

[@BR1CK_Lawliet]

Once again an incredible video!!!! The "Blood of Hylia" misstranslation is a really good point, loss and missinterpretation of information are all deeply intertwined within the Zelda franchise, if we consider what Fi says in Skyward Sword. The cartography is also really inaccurate in all games except BotW and TotK, where it is scan data, as they are all drawn (just look at old maps from britain etc.). So your spekulation has an really good basis. The Adventure of Link introduces the "Law that every princess must be named Zelda", but there could also just be a tradition to name princesses Zelda, like within real world monarchies. The prince in TAoL's backstory just forced the monarchs after him to do so. But I have to say, I would have loved if you included the Temple of the Four Sword within the Dark World in this video (if you even consider it as canon). Because personally I consider the re-release of a game as the (currently) definitive version of that game, and therefore the canon of it. But I can see why you didn't. Regarding the Ganon portion of this video, placing the Oracle duology after A Link to the Past but before The Legend of Zelda provides a great explanation for several details. Firstly, Ganon’s inability to speak could be a result of the botched resurrection in the Oracle games. This aligns with suggestions from Hyrule Historia and the Hyrule Encyclopedia that he likely lost much of his strength because of that event. Spoiler for Echoes of Wisdom: Secondly, this placement has also implications for the eventual Echoes of Wisdom video. In that game, Ganon can speak-something that conflicts with his state if the game is set after the Oracle games and, by extension, ALttP (as I believe they share the same Link). One could argue that Ganon in EoW is an Echo, yet the explanation becomes inconsistent when considering Link’s situation: Prior to the events of EoW, Link loses his ability to speak. After the game's introduction, Null creates echoes by copying Link and other entities. However, neither Link's Echo nor any other creature lacking the ability to speak gains this trait after being consumed by Null. This reveals that Null's echoes inherit only the capabilities of their source at the moment of copying, without any "enhancements" or changes beyond what existed in the original state. Therefore this game can't be after the Oracle games, yet Ganon is also unknown and Hyrule is prosperous, making it very difficult to pin point where it fits. Personally I therefore believe that its in the Child Timeline of Nintendo's timeline interpretation, as it has the least contradictions. But I know that FSA fits really well as the pre-story of ALttP, which is why I am extremly excited to see what you come up with in the end :)

[@darkdagger5237]

"Therefore this game can't be after the Oracle games" Counter point Ganon speaks in Oracle so the ritual did not make him mute.

[@BR1CK_Lawliet]

@@darkdagger5237 You’re right-it didn’t make him mute, but it did affect his ability to speak. By the time of Zelda I, we no longer hear him speak at all, which might suggest that this condition worsened over time. This deterioration could be tied to his botched resurrection and other incomplete attempts at bringing him back. That’s why I believe Ganon’s army, after the failed resurrection in OoX, is unable to fully restore his now-damaged mind. If subsequent resurrections are also imperfect, which they probably are, his mental state likely deteriorates even further. It’s like copying a copy-each iteration loses more details, gradually eroding the original. Edit: I also don’t believe Ganon lost his ability to speak during EoW, as Link did, because Link regained his speech after the defeat of Null. This suggests that Ganon would also have regained his ability to speak at that point, and therefore too at the time of the original Zelda. Leaving pretty much only the reasoning from Hyrule Historia as a good reason, for Ganon‘s loss of speech.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@BR1CK_Lawliet "Ganon's loss of speech" You assume that Ganon can't speak just because he doesn't speak to Link.

[@BR1CK_Lawliet]

That’s a valid point. Though I don’t see why this bit of Hyrule Historia Lore couldn’t be cannon.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@BR1CK_Lawliet The answer to that is in Zelda 1. According to the backstory of Zelda 1 Ganon's intellect is still intact which directly contradicts Hyrule historia.

[@dmerkaGU10]

I personally like to line up the maps with spectical rocm and the grave yard matching

[@heartnahalf]

I really though t hard about that. Maybe if this map doesn't end up working out in the future, I'll reorganize a bit more

[@TomMooreT2S]

14:46 Those statues resemble Hyness (Kirby: Star Allies), one of the many Ancients of that series’ lore, who was banished to the edge of the galaxy along with his 3 disciples, the Three Mage Sisters, supposedly due to their corrupted hearts tainted by Void Termina, but in truth, they were sealed by other Ancients out of fear of the powers they wield. Speaking of the Sisters… Once you discuss the Era of the Wilds… I have A LOT of discoveries that correspond to each sister and their tragic backstories… Believe me, the findings I made will blow everyone’s minds…

[@heartnahalf]

I'm not sure I see the resemblance personally, but I would look forward to hearing what you've got to say about it!

[@TomMooreT2S]

@heartnahalf For now, I’ll give you a handful of hints… The Leviathans… their tragedies… The Dark Skeletons… The weapons of the Phantom Ganons… A rock circle that seemed like a Korok puzzle… but it’s not… (along the Eldin Fossil’s vertebrae…) The Biron Snowshelf… (The sleeping Guardian Stalker and sky island pieces guarded by a Frost Gleeok…) The Mural’s Myth (Lightning Temple)… The elements that correspond to each region… They always point me directly to the Mage Sisters’ respective backstories…

[@Ahouro]

In the Japanese version the Master sword isn´t said to be made to combat the power of the Tri-force. Aghanim is called Ganon´s bunshin in the Japanese version. The prince from Aol made it a law that doesn't mean that there wasn´t princesses before that was named Zelda. The box that Snes Alttp came in said that Alttp Link and Zelda was the predecessor to the Link and Zelda from the Nes games.

[@heartnahalf]

Thanks for the info! I didn't learn about the word bunshin until right now, but that seems to have a few possible meanings (parturition; delivery; one's child; branch; offshoot; one's other self) I think a possession, or heavy influence would fall into that meaning. I did NOT know about the ALTTP box info saying that though so thank you for the tip! so much info gets lost without the original media and packaging

[@Chris-gx1ei]

The Japanese Manual says the Master Sword is an Exorcism Sword designed to destroy any evil - *any* evil, thus even if Evil posesses the Full Triforce, it is even capable of harming them. Also funfact: The Master Sword is said to be forged long before Ganon came to be in Japanese while in English it's said it was made after Ganon got the Triforce, this means That this is not a retcon but a Translation Error because Nintendo of America is fucked up - and it even fucks up more Translation stuff regarding lore

[@TomMooreT2S]

You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness? *En Garde!”* Sorry, but that was way too corny and cheesy! XD

[@Luigifan305]

Sahasrahla's "three or four generations ago" remark is a mistranslation, and what he's *supposed* to be saying is more along the lines of "once upon a time" or even just "a long time ago". This is further backed up by the manual explicitly stating that the Imprisoning War was "many centuries" ago, as well as another official book from around that time claiming 600 years to be the exact number, so that's what I stick with, 600 years. In regard to what else comes before ALttP, not only do the Medallions appear in Four Sword Adventures, we literally meet the person who originally created them. This, along with a ton of other evidence (such as the very existence of the Palace of the Four Sword inside the Pyramid of Power of all places), points towards FSA *actually* taking place before ALttP, in spite of what the "official" timeline claims. Of course, Four Swords should then be placed directly before that, because once again the official timeline screwed up and ignored the fact that FSA's intro narration OUTRIGHT CONFIRMS that it's a direct sequel to Four Swords featuring the same Link and Zelda. Also, as a side tangent, Tri Force Heroes is *clearly* a sequel to Spirit Tracks and not ALBW, so I don't know what they were on when they placed it there. Not only do those two Links look nothing alike (TFH's Link literally even looks younger), but TFH Link is also using the exact same sword from ST with the blue gem in its pommel. It even matches narratively because one of ST's endings involves Link leaving New Hyrule to forge a new path in life, lining up with the start of TFH perfectly.

[@heartnahalf]

That's really interesting! I'll have to keep an eye out for that when I get to the FS Games. Thank you!

[@Chris-gx1ei]

The Silver Arrows seem way weaker, in the Original Zelda they deal as much damage as the Level 3 Sword, in A Link to the Past they deal 50 times as much as the Regular Master Sword - or 12,5 times as much as the Golden Master Sword. Also Ganon was the Owner of the full Triforce, despite him not carrying it, the Triforce did only obey him. And this made him completely invulnerable even to the Master Sword without a Spin Attack or if you Upgrade it into the Golden Sword, otherwise any other attack would be useless - this is Ganon at his peak. Funfact: Despite Ganon having a weakness to Silver Arrows, he is still slightly resistant to them, instead of having a damage value of 100, they have a damage value of 24. A Link to the Past has an odd way with how each weapon damages an enemy or if they damage them at all, only like half of the Bosses and against the Amos they are dealing 4 times the damage of the starter Sword while just being twice as strong against other enemies

[@andrewteifke422]

Pretty cool a lot seem the check out so far. Are ya gonna mention the Four Sword Dungeon when ya get to Four sword or do ya think that inclusion is non-conon? Also if this one is this long, might be good idea to split some of the later one. Can't say I'm the sort to sit through a 2 hour video.

[@heartnahalf]

I was saving that for my FS playthrough yes. The plan is to play through the GBA version of screen and do the FS dungeon as a final part

[@andrewteifke422]

@@heartnahalf Ah! Well looking forward to when ya get to that point, quite a few game are between Alttp and FS so bet of luck on the project.

[@TomMooreT2S]

A Link to the Past’s iteration of Princess Zelda, while never amongst the most recognizable incarnations, also served as the basis (alongside A Link Between Worlds Zelda) for the development of my overall favorite iteration of Hyrule’s Princess, Smash Ultimate Zelda. Now some would argue that Ultimate Zelda is one of those two incarnations, but their appearances with each other don’t match. Both in their own respective games are just the stereotypical damsel in distress… The one featured in Ultimate… let the trolling montages speak for themselves… (check out the Zelda montage by Sophist for example…) She’s THE ultimate troll! The combat prowess, the expressions, the personality, how can you say “no”? She’s my favorite Zelda. This is the Zelda I want to have for a future Zelda spinoff title. Just Ultimate Zelda kicking @$$ in all her finery! (No offense, but Echoes of Wisdom Zelda was nowhere close to matching this one…)

[@heartnahalf]

I definitely think the SSB Ultimate version of Zelda was one of the most thoughtful adaptations. Elements of so many incarnations it pays ohmage to, including ALTTP Zelda. Especially that they dropped the Sheik Transformation in favor of the phantom summon... Chefs kiss

[@TomMooreT2S]

@heartnahalf If you’re in the mood for more Ultimate Zelda and her Smashing glory, check out my Lv. 9 Gauntlet run! (Still in progress)

[@TomMooreT2S]

A Link to the Past has always been deemed a prequel to the original Zelda. However, at some point later down the line, Shigeru Miyamoto, when asked about a chronology (the idea HE himself and one of his associates came up with) before Ocarina of Time was released, the order of Zelda titles went like this: Ocarina of Time, The Legend of Zelda, Zelda II, and A Link to the Past in this order… leaving Link’s Awakening unclear of its timeline placement… You’d be asking, “why wasn’t it called A Link to the *Future?”* (Yes, obvious AVGN reference. While predating the Hyrule Historia and the DS Zeldas, I do recommend checking it out.) Now ALTTP is obviously the first in the series to establish lore as the last two titles didn’t really have that much lore to be explaining. Of course, once we get into Ocarina of Time, everything that the previous games have been telling us… RETCONNED!… And for good reason… As I’ve been mentioning before, the series, like Super Mario, had just gotten started, and to make lore as relevant to the games to how we know it today, the developers needed to “start over” with the many mentions that came before and fleshing it out to solidify the overarching story. Hylia, the guardian goddess of the Triforce… While her name was mentioned at various points in the series, her status as the goddess who fought to eliminate Demon King Demise wasn’t known yet but heavily implied through the royal bloodline. So there was much of a buildup to what would soon be THE starting point of the chronology. Also, it should be worth noting that aside from pointy ears, Hylians aren’t distinguishable from humans. So biologically speaking, Hylians have similar lifespans as humans… unless they’re possibly of Sheikah lineage, which extends much further than the average Hylian/human. We also learned that Ganondorf Dragmire touched the Triforce and turned the Golden Land into the Dark World. In the series since OOT, we learned that the Triforce can only be wished upon the balance of the heart of the toucher. If unbalanced, it splits into Power, Wisdom, and Courage. One of the pieces corresponds to the belief of the unbalanced toucher while the other two are chosen to carry their respective pieces. The unbalanced one must seek out the other two pieces to make his wishes true. Here, Ganon got it without the Triforce splitting apart… I know some would say that the Hero of Time “failed”, but we never actually see it happen… I don’t need to further explain about “starting over”, but if it works to tell a convincing tale, it works. Also, Christianity is still the premier religion of Hyrule at this point. The series wouldn’t have its own religious beliefs until OOT, but it does have Christian allegories all the way throughout the Zelda universe.

[@ortherner]

comment for the algorithm

[@heartnahalf]

Your contributions is greatly appreciated!

[@ashtraydekay6624]

[@heartnahalf]

Thank you!

[@zackchaozmaster]

good vid keep going. scaling theory sucks Hyrule shroud be one kingdom that shrinks, and grows between games out side of Hyrule is a thing in more then just spinoff.

[@heartnahalf]

I agree! I think it'll be fun to play around with the kingdom sizes though, and get a real actual picture of what hyrule (and the kingdoms around it) really look like

[@GregoryB-jx3pc]

SS --> MC --> FS --> FSA --> LttP --> OoS/A --> LA --> LBW --> TFH --> EoW --> CoH --> LoZ --> AoL

[@heartnahalf]

Thanks! I'm enjoying playing them through in release order though. If that is indeed the order of events, I am sure I'll gather plenty of evidence for it!

[@GregoryB-jx3pc]

@@heartnahalf Awesome. I"m looking forward to following you through all these games. I think most all of what you've presented so far check out. Good video!

[@Chris-gx1ei]

I assume that this is a Timeline with the "Zelda Dies" Ending in Minish Cap? I basically made a Timeline where I put a Split at Minish Cap where Zelda dies before Link beats the last three Darknuts (That's for real a Game Over tied to a hidden timer) In this scenario Vaati would have been too powerful to be killed, thus he couldnt be destroyed and has been tied to the Four Sword to seal him away

[@GregoryB-jx3pc]

@@Chris-gx1ei I'd actually put the split back in Skyward Sword--Link travels to the past, seals Demise in the Master Sword, and creates a timeline where the events of Skyward Sword never happen. There are lots of time travel shenanigans in the Zelda series, but the fight with Demise is different because it looks like it happens in the same place as Ocarina of Time's scene where Zelda sends adult Link back to his childhood. Is this place the Sacred Realm? I don't know, but I'd suggest that when someone vanishes within this place, it can generate a new reality in ways that other time travel events can't. But that's speculation.

[@harts-other-half]

They're maidens not Sages

[@heartnahalf]

Damn... you got me there... honestly though, same difference essentially ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@JaidynReiman]

They are Sages, though. They're specifically stated to be descendants of the Seven Wise Men / Sages which historically speaking makes them new Sages. It is true that LTTP predated this concept (hence why they were localized as "Seven Wise Men" rather than "Seven Sages"), but it still fits into the lore established later that Sages are usually descendants of prior Sages. These Sages happened to be Maidens, but they're still the new Sages as well.

[@penguinkbear]

Please stop using AI!!

[@heartnahalf]

Honestly, I am with you. I told myself if one person commented they didn't like it I would stop doing AI Voice overs. I was on the fence about using any AI and only wanted to feel out how the technology works. And even then, I only actually put it in because it is VERY obviously a robotic AI voice. That said, if I ever start making money from videos, I want to commission a VA to voice all of Zelda's lines in every game.

[@vancodling4223]

Should we shut down the auto industry to save the stablehands' jobs too? As an artist myself, you need to accept its over. The AI will draw the furry smut and you will be out of a job. Make art that's meaningful, or else it's meaningless to make it.