Discovery Wings Clash of Wings 06of13 Germany's Third and Last Chance XviD AC3 MVGroup Forum

[@johntripp5159]

I worked in weapons electronics in the navy. Asdic was the first Sonar prototype which employed a sonar sender which worked on a stack of vibrating magnets sending a high pitched 'ping' The receiver was a hydrophone which could be rotated and elevated or depressed to follow the best ping. the senior rating had ears like a cat and could tell from the echo what a submarine was doing. Outputs from the two parts were dialed into an analog computer giving the submarine's position in three dimensions allowing for setting the depth charges' fuses.

[@jasons44]

This whole series is one of the best true documentary

[@DataWaveTaGo]

My father was RCAF, his two brothers served in the RCN. The youngest (16!) was an AA gunner on destroyers. The older was an officer on a cruiser. Their recounting of the Battle of the Atlantic, Mediterranean Sea & the Murmansk route is terrifying. My family has much of it recorded & digitized for our grandchildren. The most frightening port was Murmansk. They witnessed Stalin's thugs murdering Russia sailors for reasons not explained.

[@jonesaderhold3513]

NKVD agents maybe?

[@DataWaveTaGo]

jones aderhold - That would often be the case.

[@stephenanderle5422]

Probably for not getting close enough to the enemy to get sunk!

[@tedenderpalmer6550]

B24 aka LB-30 in RAF service. Coastal Command were the first to see combat in the B24, these were pre D model aircraft without supercharged engines.

[@nightlightabcd]

I am surprised that there are no comments here. Anyway, I am glad that Admiral Donets didn't get the number of submarines he wanted. Germany may have won the battle of Britain before America got into the war. Even when America got into the war, it took them over a year to learn how to fight the submarines.

[@zdzichus.3264]

it took them time just to adjust to some existing radio tech at that time... /shortening waves length///

[@billthomas635]

@@zdzichus.3264 The Brits gave, gratis, a prototype cavity magnetron to the Yanks. That was the secret of the H2S 10cm radar, the technology that amazed the Germans. It was then developed and fitted to many nightfighters. When I went to radio/radar school 60 years ago I thought it was MAGIC. It was at the time.

[@stephenarling1667]

@@billthomas635 The Proximity Fuze was another British invention, perfected and mass-produced in the USA.

[@stephenarling1667]

Saving the USSR ultimately led to the new Cold War threat we face today.

[@JazzWithJakeInSF]

Come to think of it, so did the fall of the Roman Empire.

[@stephenarling1667]

@Big Bill O'Reilly Saving the USSR -> spreading to China -> to N Korea and other Communist malefactors worldwide, leading to this new Cold War by novel means. You idiot.

[@stephenarling1667]

@@JazzWithJakeInSF So did the fall of Adam, now that you mention it, but drollery was not my aim.

[@wekapeka3493]

“We” saved each other!

[@stephenarling1667]

@@wekapeka3493 Without America and Britain, the war would have been lost, no question about it.

[@markrowland1366]

The most aggressive tactics of a determined captain of the Royal Navy changed the attitude to destroying U-boats and again sinkings increased dramatically. The introduction of groups of forward projecting, Heg Hog, contact mines changed everything, in every ocean.

[@wrqnine7675]

This is a wonderful doc., thanks for putting it up. There is so much information here you don't get anywhere else, and really excellent video too. If Hitler had driven strait into England with anything they could, I don't know if the US would've even gotten involved. We owe what we've saved from the Nazis almost entirely to Winston Churchill. The powers of oppression and tyranny are always at the doorstep of "mankind", and marshaling "normal folk" against them seems always to be the greatest challenge. The thing we must know is; "what constitutes unreasonable power of one individual over another?" And; "when is it necessary to take it anyway?". It is the murky, churlish viscosity of these waters that gives the free hand of fascism such a vast advantage.

[@AaronDrake22]

Simple God gave free will ...

[@robertbates6057]

It's fun to what if but way too easy after the fact. Roosevelt was a sneaky Pete in supporting the UK way earlier than most knew. Churchill deserves TONS of credit for his tough outlook and for keeping constant pressure on Roosevelt to enter the war. I agree that it was fortunate that Hitler decided to not invade after Dunkirk. Perhaps he wasn't aware of how thin the RAF actually was. Hitler's maniacal ambition and stubbornness may have been the overall saving grace to stopping them. Time and again he ignored his staff and proceeded with disastrous decisions.

[@wekapeka3493]

Robert Bates It’s more accurate to say Roosevelt never “entered” the war. It was more like the war came to him and his country first with the Japanese attack on Pearl harbour followed by Germany’s declaration of war on the USA. If Germany had never declared war on the USA would Roosevelt only have fought Japan?

[@robertbates6057]

@@wekapeka3493 Logistically, that would be the wise decision but a lot of the ships, most of the tonnage sunk and a lot of the sailors killed by the U boats were American. Roosevelt was all primed for Hitler to declare war. Like I said above, Roosevelt was a sneaky guy, doing everything he could to prepare for war and to supply the UK that the People and Congress would allow.

[@arnepietruszewski9255]

Please answer the quetstion with what the germans should have driven everything over the admittedly small stretch of water called the english channel? No landing craft, not enough transports, not enough ships to block the channel for the British, no air superiority..... . How in hell will you get german soldiers to england, by swimming? That's a 40 Kilometer stretch of water we are talking about... . No that war better never would have started, at least from a german point of view.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

If anyone doubts the effect of the focke-wulf Condor, think of the cam equipped merchant ships. Risking Pilots and admittedly war-weary Hawker hurricane on one-way interception trips to attack Condors is hardly something to be taken lightly.

[@markrowland1366]

Captain Winkle Brown, famous British piolet, who flew Martlets and shot down several kondors, saying he had to approach them from dead ahead as they had many protecting guns. I believe his knowledge is superior.

[@DataWaveTaGo]

It has been correctly stated by one "expert" that U-boats sank only 1% of Allied ships and thus it was a total failure. Not quite. During the 'Happy Times' U-boats sank enough ships to put GB close to starvation. You have to look at the monthly statistics.

[@stephenhowlett6345]

DataWaveTaGo just that evil saying of ‘happy time’ makes me glad we drowned as many of the bastards as possible.

[@RemoteViewr1]

If Germany was in the process of building 300+ U Boats, the Allies would damn well have noticed and gotten the drift. Not a defensive weapon. No appeasement policy. Sheer fantasy in speculating it would have gone unchallenged.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

I am at 49 minutes into this video and the claim is made that very long range aircraft pretty much won the Battle of the Atlantic. This immense the contribution of the hunter killer groups. These four groups of escorts, typically Corvettes and frigates build a smattering of Destroyer escorts and destroyers and most importantly escort carriers. These groups could go to a hotspot and not having the responsibility of the Convoy in question, they could sit on a contact until that contact was dead. Escort carriers did as much to close the Atlantic Gap as the Liberators did. And once again they could sit on a contact until it was dead. Add to that we had cracked the German submarine Enigma code and were able to track down and destroy their supply submarines known as milch cows. The Advent of the Hedgehog, the squid and the acoustic homing torpedo sealed the fate of the German U-boat War.

[@stephenarling1667]

A good example, perhaps, was Operation Monstrous, the 72-hour pursuit and sinking of U-616.

[@elrjames7799]

@Real Thailand Well written.

[@736693]

The British captured a U-Boat in the Eastern Mediterranean in October 1942 with the Enigma machines & codebooks intact. That was how the Allies maximized the usefulness of radar, sonar, directional finding, & long range aircraft to find & destroy the U-Boats. I Googled the article “What If The Allies Had Not Broken The German Naval Code”. If the German Naval Code was not broken; the Mediterranean offensives would have been delayed by three months, the Normandy invasion would have been pushed back into 1945, Pacific & Southeast Asian offensives would have been delayed, & lend lease to the USSR would have reduced over more time thereby delaying Soviet offensives on the Eastern Front as well. Breaking the Enigma code saved millions of lives.

[@bassmith448bassist5]

No mention of the capture of German enigma???

[@gary4250]

bassmith448 bassist Enigma wasn’t air power. Enigma did help counter attacks greatly. The shocking fact was 59 Nazi subs almost defeated England. If 300 submarines had been built, England and USA cargo and naval ships would have been decimated.

[@johnallen2771]

If the Allies had lost all or even most of their convoys this would have just accelerated the development of aircraft to fight the problem. This flies in the face of those who have said that if the Germans had only had more submarines they would have starved the British into submission. The British withstood the Blitz and the Battle of England, they would have withstood even more if the convoys had been stopped temporarily. We were still getting more than 50% of the convoys to Britain even at the height of the convoy war.

[@gary4250]

John Allen 300 subs would have cut 50% ship arrival to much less.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

At the height of the battle of the Atlantic England was down to approximately six weeks of critical supplies. This being raw materials and most importantly food. Mom used to tell me about some of the food that she ate when she was in London as a nurse during World War II. Aside from the fact that they were frequently hungry she found whale to be very chewy. Horsemeat she said was rather sweet. And the creative way she would come up with combinations of food to make dinner was always perplexing to me. I never saw stuff like that in my friends house. I think you're understating the devastating impact of the U-Boat War and overstating British resiliency which I have the utmost respect for.

[@danielmocsny5066]

It's true that more German submarines early in the war would have made things harder for the British. But the resources to build that fleet would have had to come from somewhere else. Germany was not fully mobilized for war until 1943-1944. Until that point Hitler was hoping to win easily thereby maintaining his political popularity at home. He couldn't build 300 fleet submarines along with the best air force and land army in the world in 1940. And if we play the hindsight game with Hitler, why not with the Allies? Hitler was not the only one making mistakes. The Allies could have been proactive and crushed Hitler in 1938 before things got out of hand. Or just invaded Germany from the west in 1939 when Germany had its forces stacked against Poland in the east. Or France could have extended its Maginot line to the North Sea instead of leaving the door open. Or France and Britain could have anticipated the need to build several thousand first-rate fighters to counter the Luftwaffe before the shooting started. Or the Allies could have figured out the need for escort carriers and built them in large numbers early and wiped out the U-boats straightaway. The USN and RN had all the carrier aircraft types to be effective against u-boats at the start, they just didn't have enough of them, nor did they understand that cheap escort carriers in large numbers could protect convoys. The point is that nobody knew all these things before the war started, so all the warring nations made mistakes. The Allies were able to recover from their mistakes because they had inherent geographic advantages - the invasion-proof United States with its huge economy, Britain with 22 miles of ocean to stop the unprepared Germans from invading, and the Soviet Union with its vast territory to swallow invading armies. France was caught out because she was geographically vulnerable.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Flying fuel to the UK would have been like peeing on a forest fire. Read up on the logistics to bomb Japan from China. They had to fly fuel and bombs over the Himalaya mountains to the bases the B29's used. Wasn't efficient at all. Then add the medling of Chiang Kai-shek, Chennault and Stillwell just to screw things up a little more.

[@jameshowell3515]

spam in a can--where does the spam animal live--what does the spam animal look like

[@jimwilson5093]

great question..my uncle had a spam farm that I used to visit when i was very young and I had to get up with my nephews to feed and milk the spams in the early mornings. They are about as big as a medium sized dog and have short hairs that are like bristles. They have fluffly tails and are very quick. Much like a cross between and goat and an ocelot. They are not very bright animals but are gentle and good with kids.They are mammals but yet they do hatch from eggs like chickens. They make the platypus seem like a well designed animal.I now look fondly back on the days at my uncles farm during the spring spam roundup hanging out with the spamboys riding the open range.

[@zdzichus.3264]

I am spam-animal, and I'm alive!!! Anarchey!!! Free the Chicks!!! Ban the Spam!!!

[@Ni999]

They look exactly like a pigs and live on pig farms.

[@thomasjr8360]

I put a can in a blender and it made a purple sludge.. My dogs loved it..

[@teds2004]

That's not a merchant aircraft carrier (MAC ) at 23:55: it's an escort carrier. Grain carrying MACs only had one elevator and tanker MACs none at all. They also had a much simpler island structure. MACs never carried monoplanes operationally. A Martlet II (piloted by Lt Eric 'Winkle' Brown) made a series of trial landings and take-offs onboard MAC Ship 'Amastra' in October 1943 but though successful, there was no operational requirement and the idea was abandoned. There are photos of MACs transporting monoplanes as deck cargo but these would have been craned on and off.

[@thosefabulouschartierboys6987]

At 2:00. " A withering barrage of anti-aircraft fire"?

[@X314-l8f]

Only 3 cannons aboard a lucky one

[@brianduff5361]

it was BRITAIN at war not just England.

[@wekapeka3493]

It was the allies at war, not just Britain!

[@brianduff5361]

@@wekapeka3493 i was just trying to highlight whenever you see these documentaries they always marginalize the other nations of the U.K. by Mentioning "England" i dont think thats fair hence my comment.

[@jaybee9269]

It’s still unfortunately common to hear “England” when someone really means “Britain”, particularly here in the U.S. But I hear it LESS than, say, 20 years ago, roughly when this program was made. So, yay?

[@stephenhowlett6345]

Brilliant series.

[@sblack48]

I read that Doenitz ordered his captains to report in every night and the allies used this to triangulate and locate the uboats. No mention of it here. Maybe it was an ruse to hide the fact that they were using radar. Depends on when this was made. So 3/4 of those crews died a horrible death. But they killed 1000s themselves. War sucks.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

What you're referring to as Huff Duff. High frequency Direction finding. That is correct he did order them to report in regularly. We could also read the messages that were being exchanged between Doenitz and his captains.

[@philperry4699]

@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer HF/DF (Huff Duff) was in part a cover story to keep the Germans unaware that radar and Ultra were in use (although it _did_ contribute). One of the things the Kriegsmarine did was to record messages (in Morse code) on the sub and play them for transmission greatly sped up, hoping that wouldn't give enough time to get the bearings on the sub.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

@@philperry4699 You're referring to squirt transmissions. HF/DF was used from shore and shipboard. You can triangulate a signal at greater range than radar can detect. You can also detect radar at greater range that it can detect you.

[@randypurtteman1183]

The absolute stupidity that was the British Admiralty concerning the artic convoy then in transit to the Soviet Union when they heard that Germany's pocket battleship might make an appearance is abhorrent on so many levels. Were they as they were during the First World War when the Lusitania was sunk within sight of land in the British Isles and should have had an escort. Instead, they chose to blame the Captain and ruin his career forever, fearful once again of their collective reputation. Or was it just Churchill's reputation they were worried about? Anyone with even an ounce of brains knows that you don't withdraw your naval support when you hear that the enemy may be coming in search of you. Especially one you've been trying so hard to terminate. No, you use that foreknowledge to lay a trap, using perhaps the convoy as potential bait, but protected bait just the same. You don't withdraw your protective force and then tell the convoy to abandon all hope by scattering to the wind when it's the protection of the convoy itself that gives them any chance at all. By themselves they're just "fish food" for whatever or whomever comes along. I thought it was just the Russians and the Japanese during the Second World War that did that with their frontal infantry assaults and so forth. I guess politicians and many generals and people high up in the ranks forget that the greatest asset, in any Army, is the well trained soldier, sailor, or airman. You throw them away foolishly and it takes years to train replacements to that level. Equipment can be replaced and improved upon a lot quicker than that soldier that lost his life because of some politician's or armchair general's stupidity or lack of forethought or competence in that situation can be. Their really is such a thing as being promoted beyond your abilities.

[@stephenarling1667]

Dudley Pound's death soon after, consequent to a brain tumor, may give a clue to the genesis of his lamentable decision.

[@andyrbush]

Interesting but all the if's are a little annoying because the outcomes are not down to if, but what actually happened.

[@kenc3288]

Excellent, excellent.

[@somethingelse4878]

13:37 what the f is that, an electronic sight? Also they used to admit the Germans knew the British codes, now they try to hide that and so do many KZbinrs

[@timphillips9954]

The biggest question is why are there so many feeble minded Brit Haters on here?

[@DavidHuber63]

Calling our Ocean that gives us life monotonous?

[@timjones1236]

Inaccurate comment on the Bismarck, it was scuttled in Montevideo harbour by its captain not sunk by Royal Navy.

[@grahamcowen2752]

I'm afraid you are misinformed; it was the Graf Spee that was scuttled in Montevideo harbour. The Bismarck was sunk in the North Atlantic.

[@timjones1236]

Oh thanks my bad

[@jamesunsworth6865]

Tim get your Historical Facts right, before you open your gob. You plank!!!!

[@dhss333]

1400 UBoats all types produced & active, NOT 100.

[@tonyromano6220]

Fire control systems could not target the slow British biplanes! I imagine the Italian ships had same problem.

[@stephenanderle5422]

Only 36 out of 59 were speaking ships. What were the other 13? Landgoing! HaHa! Maybe UnterLantGoing!

[@jackd1582]

Coastal

[@Peorhum]

The writer of this series likes the term Anglo-Saxons. he had both the Germans and Japanese use it. He likely doesn't know what Saxon is.

[@DataWaveTaGo]

Walter Boyne knows his "Anglo-Saxons". Check his credentials some time. I enjoy his books & insights. ps My father was RCAF, stationed at Croydon from around March 1940 (2 months before the Battle of France).

[@adamkuykendall]

I would rather it been Anglo American? After all, it was a combined effort after 1941

[@ShamanKish]

Or Great British ')

[@danielmocsny5066]

@@adamkuykendall - or Anglo-Slav-American, given that 70% of German casualties were on the eastern front.

[@alfredneuman6488]

RAF shooting up ships bringing iron ore and other materials from "neutral" Sweden to make armaments in Germany... Nice people those Swedes!

[@robschumann9665]

Sweden only did what they had to do to prevent Hitler making them a target like Norway. Hitler never left neutral countries alone if they had something he viewed as necessary for his Reich. Which choice would you make if you were given the option of sending Hitler what he wanted or becoming a puppet state like Norway and Hitler just taking what he wanted?

[@arnepietruszewski9255]

The US carmakers sold their trucks to the germans and the allies. Nice People those americans....

[@wurlitzerlibertyinc.1612]

@@arnepietruszewski9255 al·ly1 noun plural noun: allies /ˈalī/ a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose. verb 3rd person present: allies /əˈlī/ combine or unite a resource or commodity with (another) for mutual benefit.

[@arnepietruszewski9255]

@@wurlitzerlibertyinc.1612 Yeah but I am not an english native soo.... I would like to see you cope with german.

[@arnepietruszewski9255]

@@wurlitzerlibertyinc.1612 No it is allies. I am speaking of the alliance between Britain, the USA and Russia, I believe that was called allies.

[@markrowland1366]

Admiral King and two generals might best have been shot down to the rank of cook.

[@peterclark4685]

Doenitz had to rely heavily on the lack of imagination of the RN brass. Eg: One (or more) dedicated mother ships per convoy could have supported small (30') patrol vessels armed with a handful of depth charges (2), twin-Vickers MGs (or better) or even a single barrel 20mm to maintain a wide patrol (with bite) screen around the convoy. Up to 10-12 of these could be housed/recovered in a single ex-freighter which puts quite a few Mk 1 eyeballs looking for signs of any submersibles. Add the Walrus, plus recovery and launch systems and U-boats would never had had an even chance. 100 such Mother ships would even make the Raiders a risky proposition. Which only proves that past 40 (and maybe 35) most men are no longer capable of providing anything more than their staff experience. The human brain must have the vigour and cheek of youth where there are guns and targets.

[@jcwiggens]

Germany never had a chance to really win.

[@thomasjr8360]

That was top secret when this was made

[@pedemeyer]

Døjnitz 😂😂

[@gaittr]

This whole series is 100% about German propaganda

[@peterclark4685]

The Atlantic War only lasted as long as it did because the restricted minds of the British admirals was all the Kriegsmarine had to defeat. a. In all sea conditions that U-boats could mount an attack a much smaller version of the Motor Gun Boat (MGB) could also operate. b. The same MGB's could be used to recover sling-launched Walrus' and return them to a Mother ship (MS). c. A MS may have been able to support up to 12 MGBs and 2 crews for each one. Hauling them out of the water for storms and post storm wave conditions. d. The Atlantic War Sept-Dec 1939. D-Day could have been launched in 1942. Do the maths. E. All senior officers at the start of a war must be immediately retired and have their pencil sharpeners removed. Marshall did. Stalin did but he didn't know it. Britain had to wait. MGB: 16', 1.2 tons(dry), 24hr cap, 1x20mm, 2x.5cal, 6 DC, crew 5, 6 hr rota. MS: 3 hold converted freighter, hold A, MGB+works, hold B accom+mess, hold C Aircraft+works.

[@sirsydneycamm1883]

@PC - I don't understand if you are saying the Brits or the Germans should have the MGB to attack Allied shipping or German U-boats. Can you explain a little clearer what you're writing and whether this was or wasn't available or untried at the time, please?

[@bartfoster1311]

@@sirsydneycamm1883 based on him saying they could haul walrus' back I am assuming he means the allies should have used motor gun boats to counter the uboats.

[@peterclark4685]

@@sirsydneycamm1883 Either side could have tried it but without a Navy to back up the freighters only the RN could have tried it in this war. BTW I forgot I had already made a comment and have added another.

[@williewaset]

If only Germany this, if only Germany that, etc...

[@carljohnson4842]

Me

[@michaelg8465]

U-boat cowards but I guess they had to do it.

[@tango6nf477]

Dont be so dismissive, you may not like what they did but they were certainly not cowards.

[@peterharwood1430]

British propaganda.

[@peterharwood1430]

@Michael Evans No I just hit the wrong keys. Thanks for pointing it out.

[@peterharwood1430]

@Michael Evans I have edited it.

[@peterharwood1430]

Yes you are right on that point. Events were recorded and this vid shows that but there are many points in history that remain undisclosed.