Discussing Fantasy Archetypes with A.P. Canavan: Part 9, The Chosen One

[@RalphNC09]

I love the chosen one. The grand scale that usually accompanies the trope/archetype; the idea of being divinely touched and destined for greatness, destined to destroy evil is just magnificent.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

It does seem to call for grandeur and vastness of scale, which works well in fantasy!

[@Johanna_reads]

This was very interesting! I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I have never before thought about the Judeo-Christian influence on the chosen one, and it seems so clear considering astrology, prophecy, super powers, followers, etc. I understand the archetype spans beyond Christianity as well, and either way, I find that fascinating. Before discovering BookTube, I honestly never thought about tropes or archetypes when reading fantasy or science fiction. It does bring interesting context to the way we interpret literature, and there is such a wide range on how each of these tropes or archetypes can be utilized and analyzed. Thank you both for this illuminating discussion!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks, Johanna! I’m happy these discussions are helpful in pointing out another way to derive meaning from the stories we love to talk about. There’s no shortage of archetypes in fantasy, but these archetypes derive much of their resonance in the first place from myth and religion, and perhaps from our psychological needs. Cheers!

[@rorilee9791]

I guess I never realized that this is one of my favorite types of stories until this video. This series is EXCELLENT. Thank you both!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thank you, Rori, for your kind and encouraging words - the sort that keep us going!

[@CatastrophicDisease]

I loved Philip’s line about these archetypes serving a “psychological function.” That really struck a chord with me. I think all good stories serve some psychological function, and these hero stories adopt a particularly visceral one that hits at our aspirations at life. I would say that the Chosen One narrative goes far beyond Judeo-Christian tradition. It is a big part of Indian, Islamic, East Asian stories as well.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

Superman is part of this trope big time.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

You're definitely right about the universality of the Chosen One. There are variations of it in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, or in the various stories of the Buddha, for example. That universality strongly suggests an important psychological function.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd And note that he has a cape!

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy 🙄

[@jasonep2]

I always enjoy watching the two of you, but I've especially enjoyed watching the videos in this series. Great stuff. Wish I had either of you as teachers when I was in school.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thank you, Jason! I consider that a high compliment. One of the best things about teaching is that I’m always learning, and I feel exactly the same way about BookTube.

[@theskyisteal8346]

My favourite use/inversion of the Chosen One trope is Thomas Covenant. He is the only one in the series who does not (better, can not) beleive he is special. Covenant keeps rejecting his destiny because he thinks his mind made it up and accepting it would mean descending into true madness and, for a leper, that means death.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

That is an excellent example of how a talented author can play with this trope. I wish we had thought to mention Donaldson’s books, but that’s why we rely on you awesome viewers in the comments!

[@eddiec2711]

Philips tweed jacket is like Frodo’s chainmail, it protects him even on a desert planet 🏜 🌵 🐪

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Exactly! Perhaps my tweed is woven from mithril!

[@eddiec2711]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Tell A.P. It will also protect you from his dragon fire 🔥🤪

[@eddiec2711]

Yes… to the Mithril!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@eddiec2711 I’ll remind him! 😁

[@charlesgabriel5569]

😂

[@luvBB4lyf]

Wow, you guys helped me realize why I like and connect with the chosen one trope so much... I came for the fantasy chat and banter, wasn't expecting it to come with this psychological analysis of my life as well 😂 great discussion as always

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

If we just keep blabbing, once in a while we’ll stumble onto something profound. Works every time! 😁

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Well, not every time. 😂

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Well, sometimes . . . Once in a while? Every now and again? Okay! It happened just the once, and it was sort of an accident.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy 😂

[@nickcarlson2708]

Such a huge archetype to explore. The basis of the greatest story ever told (so they say) In some ways because of the slight ambiguity of who is the chosen one at the start of The Wheel of Time, each of those 3 boys are a chosen one in a way. Ta'veren, each with their own prophecies to fulfil. It's interesting the way they deal with Prophecy in their own way. Rand, who goes through the whole range of emotions because it affects him the most. Perrin has a grim acceptance, Mat outright disbelief and refusal to go along with it.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Great point about the Ta’veren, Nick. I’d agree that you have at least three Chosen Ones in WoT, with Rand being the super special Chosen One. I guess that’s why he gets extra Chosen One markings!

[@ravenbellebooks5665]

A long time ago I got really burnt out on fantasy because I felt like even I was reading was using The Chosen One trope. I took a break and started reading thrillers and general fiction (until I burnt myself out on those because they're not my favorite genre, haha), but now I make sure I choose fantasy that doesn't use that trope so when I do inevitably read another Chosen One it is still enjoyable. I feel like modern fantasy authors are doing much better about expanding past this trope, and I think we're getting a lot more variety than I was finding when I was younger. It's very exciting!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I agree - modern spins on the Chosen One trope tend to add some wrinkles or even some subversion, and that’s a good thing. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@AnilKumar-mp9hk]

These discussions are gold...and professor, you are amazing

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thank you, Anil! We’re having a lot of fun with the chats, and I’m happy people are enjoying them.

[@shmuelshtessman4906]

A great one once again my dear gentlemen. I probably can go on different topic from you conversation and add or explore them some more but I wanted to add that a with Eddings Malorian series he play with the chosen one trope a little more then the first series (Balgriad) with the whole Erand storyline. And to mention that atleast Sanderson with his books of WoT did add some dark prophecy aspects and even with Jordan we see different prophecy (or atleast different enough) in a different area of the world (the Seanchan empire)

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Excellent points, Shmuel! Yes, the Seanchan show how prophecies take various forms - definitely a curve ball in the WoT storyline. I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion!

[@sriharshamodukuri8844]

Great discussion again. I dont remember the exact joke, but my old English professor used to say that if your Protagonist is an orphan, or a child with a single (abusive) parent, or someone who discovers his true parentage later, then you're writing the same book that was written thousand times before.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Those are definitely tried and true tropes! That said, I do think it’s possible to do something original with them. Thanks so much for watching and commenting, Sriharsha!

[@claudiaiovanovici7569]

It looks like I am slowly catching up with these. I really liked AP's description of the trope and the clichee. And your point that the archetypes serve a psychological function. They aren't so much tricks that an author uses, but rather a direct line into the psyche of us all, the one thing that unites us where details differentiate us. And I got hung on the comment with Anakin bringing balance to the Force. He did, in more than one way. To begin with, he was the one that killed the Emperor, the Lord Sith. True, he needed the motivation to do it, and watching his son, all that was left of the woman he loved, all that was left of the humanity he had left behind while running away from his pain, was about to be destroyed under his very eyes. And he gave birth to Luke, who, in turn, had a role to play in this prophecy of bringing balance to the Force. So yes, he did fulfill his role, but not in the way people expected him to. And if balance is defined by one thing, it's that it keeps leaning one way and the other. Everything that requires balance is in a constant state of shifting and adjusting. Nothing ever stays the same and the state of perfect equilibrium is always only temporary.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

You are indeed catching up, Claudia! I love the way you put it: an archetype is “a direct line into the psyche of us all.” Also, I like your take on Anakin ultimately bringing balance to the Force. Thanks for sharing your excellent thoughts!

[@claudiaiovanovici7569]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh, and based on what I saw in this video, you should be the one calling AP Nemesis, not the other way around :)))

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@claudiaiovanovici7569 True! I do believe Professor Fireballs is aware of that irony, though. 😁

[@angiethebookaholic]

My least favourite trope.. Interested to listen to your views on this. :) Love this series, Philip and AP. :)

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thank you! It's certainly a popular trope, but even so it can be interesting when it's handled well or in some new or possibly subversive way. I doubt it will go away soon!

[@ACriticalDragon]

I am very glad that you are enjoying them. Thank you very much.

[@jeroenadmiraal8714]

I know you're all waiting for examples given by the viewers, so here it is: in the classic movie Kung Pow: Enter the Fist, the chosen one character is literally named "Chosen One" and that is what he is called throughout the film.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Ha ha! The perfect example, then!

[@ACriticalDragon]

And Neo from the Matrix, an anagram of One.

[@readingreignbro5680]

AP's views on the Jedi are interesting. While reading some of the Star Wars Legends that take place earlier in the universes chronology, the Jedi DO seem self-righteous and self-appointed. I'm not gonna say they deserved what they got, but they're a bit harder to sympathize with for me. I may have just spent too much time with Dark Side povs. 😆. Great video,

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks! I obviously need to stop being lazy and start reading the Star Wars books. Just watching the films makes me a tepid fan.

[@readingreignbro5680]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasyWell, its not exactly "The Best of Fantasy" 😉

[@asjaosaline5987]

Any plans to read Demon cycle books close future? Wardedman/paintedman is first and it also is kind of intresting.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

No immediate plans for me, but I’ve heard about those books. They’re by Peter Brett, right? They are among the many series I’d love to try eventually.

[@asjaosaline5987]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes they are by Peter Brett and he is writing already new series abut 15 years later. First series is 5 books long but has also side novellas or short storys what will give some sense on series itself. Good you have atlest plan mean while enjoy other books.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@asjaosaline5987 Thank you for the recommendation and the information, Asja!

[@JessBritvec]

I love that you guys mentioned Anakin in Star Wars. I really do think it was written to mean he would bring balance to the force, to the detriment of the Jedi. There are a lot of points in Star Wars that challenge the idea that Jedi are infallible and know whats best for the galaxy. Among the perspectives of different characters, I think Ahsoka was especially meant to portray moving towards actual balance of the force and questioning the beliefs of the Jedi. They clearly didn’t take that route for the newer film trilogy, but its there, in novels and animated shows. I’m not a huge fan of the chosen one trope played straight, but I do enjoy subversions of it. Characters being unsure or wrong about who the chosen one is, being mistaken about what the chosen one is prophesied to do, realizing there is no chosen one, are all way more interesting to me.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

The subversions are definitely more interesting to me too, Jess. I've only seen the Star Wars feature films, so it sounds like there's a lot more to that Galaxy far, far away that you can glean from the various spin-offs and the literature too. Thanks!

[@marsrock316]

Extreme polarization is not an absolute good. Neither ultimate order nor ultimate chaos are desirable; neither ultimate light nor ultimate dark. Jedis taken to a self-righteous extreme aren't that far removed from the tyranny of the First Order. That's why I thought Luke's story in Last Jedi was an attempt to address these issues, though it didn't quite get there. And then of course, JJ Abrams rest everything in the next film. Failure of imagination? or succumbing to the fairytale simplicities of Star Wars?

[@JessBritvec]

@@marsrock316 Its apparent the two directors wanted to take the trilogy in two different directions, so that was definitely a factor. I think the whole project chose to focus on answering the question of “are some people destined to be evil,” with a firm no. Instead of questioning good and evil to explore that topic they further define what it means to be good and how evil can be redeemed through sacrifice. Kylo Ren is sort of an amalgamation of Ben Skywalker and Jacen Solo (from the novels), but I think they went for a very strong surface level connection to Darth Vader (a very popular character). With Rae it feels like they were trying to make another Luke (another very popular character) who would reach an audience that Luke didn’t quite capture. The Solo twins from the novels still have special and significant blood, so that might be a reason why they decided not to use those characters. They were trying to extend the chosen one trope to everyone, making Star Wars even more marketable, and I think that was the focus overall. I wouldn’t even say they chose to make the Jedi Order go away and not matter rather than criticizing it, because it didn’t really seem like they were continuing what the actual story of Star Wars is about (in my opinion).

[@marsrock316]

@@JessBritvec I've wondered why it was such a muddle. For something so high profile to basically wing it without a narrative Plan seemed like madness, or lazy writing/producing/directing. I also wondered how much Lucas divulged of his original plans. Some of his earliest musings about sequels, from as far back as the 70s, were realized (like the Clone Wars). Others, like a reference to Han becoming Emperor at some point, with Leia as his Empress, were abandoned. Instead we got a couple of retreads sandwiching an attempt at a new direction. At this point, I don't want Abrams ("I was never a Trek fan. I wanted to do Star Wars.") anywhere near any IP I like.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@marsrock316 KZbin ate your comment again, but I got a notification for it before it disappeared forever. (I looked for it in my “Held for Review” folder, and, alas, it’s not there). I couldn’t read your whole comment, but I saw that you mentioned The Matrix. Soon after we finished recording, I said to A.P. that we should have talked about The Matrix - perfect example of the Chosen One, of course!

[@callinicobo5991]

MAYBE SPOILERS. I think in the wheel if time there are many profecies, as in the mallorean. The main difference is that Rand is the object of these profecies spread in the world and truough his action the diferent Nations reconize him as the chosen one (or not like, in some very important exceptions). In the Mallorean, Belgarion, Belgarath etc. must extrapolate excerpts from the text to go on with their quest. But I could be wrong. As the Chosen One is interesting Tiglath Assur from the duology the Assyrian by Nicholas Guild, "The Blood Star" of the title in the first book is a mark in his hand and he have a priest stolker who follow him to tel him how much he is the Chosen One... but trough the story and in the end he exercise his free will. sorry if is confused, this is not my language.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Well said! I agree that Rand is set up as the Chosen One in multiple ways and for different cultures, reflecting the diversity of places in WoT. Thanks for the comment!

[@robpaul7544]

Harry Dresden is an interesting one I think. Trying to avoid spoilers here, but let's just say that what makes him special isn't spelled out or prophesied in the first book, but instead revealed more slowly. In anime there is a subgenre called Isekai ('other world') that revolves around people from our world that either get summoned or reincarnated into a new fantastical world, where more often than not they are very overpowered Chosen Ones. I'm fully on board with AP's interpretation of the Star Wars prophecy by the way - the annihilation of the Jedi Order is the most direct route for Anakin to bring balance. It has further been speculated that because Yoda foresaw this, he must have been the best hidden Sith in the franchise 😂 More fun facts, the concept of Grey Jedis, force users accepting both the light and dark side, has always been a thing. In the original trilogy Luke becomes a Jedi who does use Force Choke - but it's much more explicit in the Expanded Universe, both in the times before the Skywalker era and after. An interesting thing also is how predestination and prophecy had links to real world hierarchies with aristocracy and royal lines being seen as 'special' or divinely ordained. This idea has certainly been in decline in recent decades - and with it the idea of prophesied heroes. The way prophecy interacts with free will is very interesting - how special are you, really, when every choice you make just follows a script..

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Great points, Rob! Being a Chosen One does indeed imply a lack of free will, doesn't it? Even in the first three books of Dresden, I've started to pick up little hints about a possible Chosen One, so that's interesting to hear.

[@djsuth7727]

A.P reveals himself as a Sith Lord in this episode ....

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well, that explanation of bringing balance to the Force was a bit inSidious!

[@djsuth7727]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Ba Dum Tish ! Well played, Philip :)

[@marsrock316]

Darth Verisimilitudinous?

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@marsrock316 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@benjaminmolina3456]

"Old enough to be an adult" ........ Phil is a sophist it seems.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Got to be clever to hang with Professor Fireballs!

[@benjaminmolina3456]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy i guess his clever flame is contagious.

[@eddiec2711]

I haven’t listen to the full 41 minutes of this, But I would like to know how this topic of the chosen one …relates with Donaldson‘s Thomas Covenant series . Even though the land called him the chosen one … but covenant didn’t want any part of it. if you guys can shed light to this?

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Donaldson is definitely a trope subverter, so you could take Thomas Covenant as a subversion of the Chosen One. He is deeply flawed and anti-heroic in several respects, not to mention unwilling. An interesting take on the trope!

[@eddiec2711]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you kindly Professor…… I always call Mark from slowly red..Thomas covenant cause he’s always wearing that antihero hat! If you ever do a re-reading of Thomas Covenant let me know, I’m actually reading the gap cycle from Donaldson now got to the third book but I tell you it’s very disturbing topics in space. Thank you again have a great day.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@eddiec2711 You too, Eddie!

[@ACriticalDragon]

Philip, a thousand apologies, I am late to thank you for the discussion. For the record, I am not a Sith sympathiser, but when there are hundreds of Jedi and a handful of Sith, one way to balance that is to create parity in numbers. Anakin took the easy way to do this instead of setting up the Sith School for Sith-olescents.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

You’re not late - the party starts when you arrive! Being an English professor, I am not on the friendliest of terms with math, but it would seem you’re right about the numbers. That said, it seems like a dodgy - possibly immoral - way to bring about “balance”. Honestly, I think Lucas thought a prophecy just sounded cool and did a poor job of following up on it, but prophecies, like horoscopes, are notorious for being wide open to interpretation.

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy regardless of the methodology, balance was achieved... If the Jedi had spent a bit more time learning about literary analysis and a bit less time robbing people of free will with their mind control, they might have seen it coming.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy The first 3 films were surprise hits, and the subsequent films then attempted, with varying degrees of success, to shoehorn newly created backstory into existing canon. Which is why the plot holes and internal inconsistencies increase from film to film. Sounds like a review worthy of the inimitable Professor Fireballs. 😁

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd as much as I view the first three with fond nostalgia, they had a few weird inconsistencies... But they were much more narratively cohesive than either the prequel or sequel trilogies.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@ACriticalDragon Wait until the inevitable reboot, lol. I have the de-specialized editions, those are the only ones I'll watch, not from a nostalgic pov, but the constant tinkering drives me up the wall.

[@alananimus9145]

Bloodline stuff and blood magic tropes always make my skin crawl. Ones blood grants specialness?

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

An excellent point -- Such concepts easily wander into the most unfortunate forms of hierarchy that humans have invented.

[@alananimus9145]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Kel Kade does some interesting work in both employing and undermining the trope. It's one of the few times I have seen it where I am okay with it.

[@urigatt6815]

HUGE spoilers for Attack on Titan: . . . So you know how the chosen one often turns bad? like, Anakin turns into Vader Rand (I think) is constantly being tempted by the dark one? idk I only read the first WoT Frodo is constantly being tempted (and in the end chooses to keep the ring) So, a thing to think about. In Attack on Titan, the chosen one turns bad by the end. But unlike the others, HE ACTUALLY SUCCEEDS. He destroys 80% of the world before the band of heroes (who used to be his sidekicks) manage to stop him. They need to figure out their differences and stuff like that to get there. It's kinda like the XMEN banding against Dark Pheonix, except in Attack on Titan, the evil chosen one actually succeeds in destroying the world. It's really cool. His thing is that he is the only one who is free, and so, he fights for freedom even if it means destroying the world. But in the end... being obliged by his will to free everyone, he's not really free at all. And he dies scared and alone, in the hands of his best friends.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Sounds like a cool spin on the Chosen One trope!

[@MrRorosuri]

tnx for a great 40 min , guys ^^

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@EricMcLuen]

Am I the only one who now has the scene from Toy Story in their head?Paul is an interesting example of a Chosen One who does fulfill a prophecy but not in the way it was apparently intended. Dune also deals a lot with predestination vs. freewill on multiple fronts. An a more general note, and perhaps someone with a doctorate in dragons might need tonchime in, is at what point did archetypes and tropes enter the vernacular when referring to literary works? I am curios at what point, and this might require some authorial necromancy, they consciously set out subverting tropes? Or they just wrote what they wanted and left it to thencritics to apply these labels to their work.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Excellent questions! I can see “trope subversion” going on in the Middle Ages, for example in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, so it’s been around for a long time. That said, I think it became far more common in the 20th century as society became more fractured. That’s my short answer, at least. And yes to Toy Story!

[@EricMcLuen]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Likely has been around for a while, we just decided to put a fancy name on it. And if you have some spare time, Tom Lehrer wrote a theme song for Oedipus Rex.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@EricMcLuen I’ll check it out!

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@EricMcLuen we also used to refer to stories with a twist in the tale/tail which was one way of describing subversion of a narrative pattern before we used that sort of phrasing.

[@EricMcLuen]

@@ACriticalDragon Academics love coming up with new words for things. But once you figure out the lexicon it does make discussing complex topic a lot easier.

[@thatsci-firogue]

I personally prefer deconstructions of The Chosen One trope than the trope itself: Azor Ahai, Kwisatz Haddrach etc.

[@angiethebookaholic]

Totally agree. And the Chosen one is my least favourite trope. It is too convenient unless there is some great "logical" sounding reason behind it.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Deconstructions and subversions are definitely more appealing to a modern audience, I would say. More than ever before, we seem to appreciate moral complexity, and I think it's a good trend overall because it makes it harder to pretend we're the good people while everyone different is bad.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

I couldn't help but think of Brian from the Monty Python film. "He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Perfect subversion of the Chosen One -- perhaps the greatest of all time!

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy holy music FOLLOWERS: ...Look! Ah! Oh! Oh! ARTHUR: He has given us a sign! FOLLOWER: Oh! SHOE FOLLOWER: He has given us... His shoe! ARTHUR: The shoe is the sign. Let us follow His example. SPIKE: What? ARTHUR: Let us, like Him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot, for this is His sign, that all who follow Him shall do likewise. EDDIE: Yes. SHOE FOLLOWER: No, no, no. The shoe is... YOUTH: No. SHOE FOLLOWER: ...a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance. GIRL: Cast off... SPIKE: Aye. What? GIRL: ...the shoes! Follow the Gourd! SHOE FOLLOWER: No! Let us gather shoes together! FRANK: Yes. SHOE FOLLOWER: Let me! ELSIE: Oh, get off! YOUTH: No, no! It is a sign that, like Him, we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head! SHOE FOLLOWER: Give me your shoe! YOUTH: Get off! GIRL: Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem! FOLLOWER: The Gourd! HARRY: Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us! ARTHUR: It is a shoe! It is a shoe! HARRY: It's a sandal! ARTHUR: No, it isn't! GIRL: Cast it away! ARTHUR: Put it on! YOUTH: And clear off! SHOE FOLLOWER: Take the shoes and follow Him! GIRL: Come,... FRANK: Yes! GIRL: ...all ye who call yourself Gourdenes! SPIKE: Stop! Stop! Stop, I say! Stop! Let us-- let us pray. Yea, He cometh to us, like the seed to the grain.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Pure poetry!

[@marsrock316]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd did you meld Arthur and Brian? Are they not all individuals?

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@marsrock316 The Gourdenes of the Moon?

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

Hmm, what about a self-chosen one, like Sam Lowry in Brazil, who, in his mind, is the hero that he isn't..

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

So many of those in the world, eh?

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy More so than the other methinks.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Meagrees!

[@MrRorosuri]

not a huge fan of the chosen one but i have liked some

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

There are so many to choose from, right?

[@xeroeddie]

Spoiler: Anakin eventually brought balance to the force in Return of the Jedi (episode 6). He kills the Sith. Well... The Rise of Skywalker undid that, sadly. PS: Awesome discussion as always. ;-)

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

That's how I usually read Anakin "fulfilling the prophecy" of bringing back balance to the force too -- by turning on the Palpatine at the very end of Return of the Jedi. As for the Rise of Skywalker and all that it did and undid . . . sigh.

[@xeroeddie]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes. It's interesting how Star Wars has a lot more in common with traditional fantasy than science fiction when it comes to themes and tropes. It's only science fiction superficially.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@xeroeddie I agree! Dune is a bit like that too, but less so than Star Wars, I think.

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy but that unbalances the force... No Sith and all Jedi make for a lopsided distribution. 😈😈😈

[@MrRorosuri]

i like the unwilling chosen one

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I agree! That definitely adds a welcome layer of complication to the story.

[@bryson2662]

I thought that interpretation of Star Wars Anakin was canon but your response is making me doubt myself

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I’ve honestly little idea of what is Star Wars canon. I always thought the “balance restoration” happened at the end of Return of the Jedi, when the Emperor took a tumble. But that’s not “balance” between the Jedi and the Sith.

[@thewhiskybowman]

It may not be spoiler for the WoT books about Rand, but it could well be for the show as they seem to be going down the route of obfuscating which of the 3 boys it is. How many people watching these videos that haven't already read the books but will watch the show is another matter right enough. Oh, and A.P. star wars rebels goes some way into what you were talking about with regards balancing the force.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for that heads up! I had no idea they were doing that in the WoT show. The Chosen One is something that Jordan hits early and hard in the books, but I can see where a show being made today would tone that down.

[@thewhiskybowman]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think they are doing it to create more of an air of mystery so they can do a big reveal at some point, probably the end of season 1 I'd guess. It's speculation at this stage but a lot of the channels that are focusing on the show seem to think that's the way they are going with the 3 potential dragons.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@thewhiskybowman Huh. Well, a good adaptation needs to make changes, and I hope this one will work well. Fingers crossed!

[@ACriticalDragon]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy if that is the plan with the TV show they may want to contact all the news outlets that have already publicised Rand's status... The cat is way out of the bag on this one.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@ACriticalDragon In this case, the Ogier is out of the bag.