Discussing the Trial System Drama, New Roles, Role Reworks + more | Town of Salem 2 News This Week

[@Adagia]

Update: they removed all the red x mark votes. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

[@HaapsaluYT]

Literally 1984 (they keep doing it this is like the 3rd time they’ve wiped non-color reacts)

[@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo]

Still full overhaul or delete are the only solutions I see with trickster. The version in the better ToS 2 mod seems like how the role should have been

[@djf1107]

The devs want to keep the poll clear and easy for them to know what each vote means. Hence why the removals of the non colored circles.

[@Evalora]

in this poll, we'll be running as the trickster - the highest skill vote in the game - hope you enjoy

[@adamperdue3178]

That whole 'banned for claiming SK' is extremely silly. If you're outed, then the best play is to muddy the waters to buy you a shred more time.

[@SasCreations2024]

Hi! juror member here, I acutally did look at htis report since dear lordth e amount of gt reports in tos 1 is abusrd at times. I can say from my view and looking at previous reports, it was hard ot tell this players intentions fomra glance. usally if someone has a clean account its safe to say they didnt intend to throw or did it on accident. when i read this report I could tell from previous palys ive made, this was a chacne to buy himself more time, town [should they be smart enough[ tends to get the team evils out, solo evils are not seen as a thrat, and sk is regarded as the weakest of all the nk roles. what this player did was out of fear of being ignited and knowing he had to get them out before this arso found his entire coven and ended there chances of winning. I did perosnally vote guilty as i did see it as potenital throwing,but not malicious, more so semeingly accidental which isnt usally seen as something is gutiled on, however without knowing this players mindset it was a safe option. I know this might make people unhappy but im jsut speaking fomr my own personal juror pov. it isa good play andim not knokcing that! just be aware of the risks when you claim a diff evil role, personally if itwas me i woulda maybe tired to wait a day and claim something else but hey. everyone hasa play in mind.

[@Cherrypizzasquad]

@@SasCreations2024 I cannot read this with all the grammar mistakes

[@camiscrazy0883]

@@SasCreations2024 "its a good play and im not knocking that" Then you shouldn't have voted guility, if you truly believed at the time that he "accidently threw" which is crazy because he was already outed, there was NOTHING to lose by claiming SK, then you shouldn't have voted guility.

[@NathenTiger]

@@SasCreations2024 you just showed how broken the system is. "this was a chacne to buy himself more time" your own words and yet you voted guilty for game throwing. You should not be a juror if you are going to say one thing and do another.

[@Zyart]

@@NathenTiger Imagine making the best play you possibly could, only for people like this to have the power to suspend your account. I'd never play ToS again.

[@edible_emerald]

As someone who voted “no” to the question “is trickster balanced”, I can confirm, no.

[@edible_emerald]

I also voted Overpowered for corner

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@edible_emerald Madlad

[@stars_x]

❌

[@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo]

@@NicoTheCinderaceit’s so useless may as well bait an evil into killing you. Coroner like mafioso in ToS 1 is basically a sacrificial offering.

[@sanga1380]

As someone who still doesn’t have access to ToS 2 and doesn’t understand anything. How bad was it. Also is it worse than survivor lol.

[@talithmara2589]

If claiming a lesser evil is gamethrowing, then so is defending your fellow mafia/coven/apoc that already got outed because it outs you. But that's the objectively smart play *most* of the time. How many games have turned into "WW can't kill tonight, get Godfather/Coven Leader/Pestilence/Death/etc?" If you transform into Death, claiming a lesser evil to deflect and hopefully get a win is smarter than sticking to a town claim if three people checked you that night and found you enemies with the confirmed crusader, confirmed tavern keeper, and confirmed vigilante. But someone just reports your shroud claim without context and you're banned!? What!? How is that even remotely acceptable!? Why not crack down on nonposting Town Investigatives? Actual townies pretending to be evil in the very early game and taking a Vigilante/Prosecutor/Deputy down with them? (My first vigi game ever had 3 of us shoot a mayor pretending to be neutral and siding Mafia.) *Veterans alerting after calling for TP/LO N1?* They're cracking down on people claiming lesser evils to buy time? Killing the bigger threat while you buy time to seize majority or eliminate your detractors is anything BUT gamethrowing, it's fighting tooth and nail to the bitter end, refusing to go down without a fight! It is the LITERAL OPPOSITE of gamethrowing in EVERY way, shape, and form!

[@SasCreations2024]

becuase most of those peopel are afk or dont know how there role works, int tos 2 we crack donw on them REAL hard in game id like to shed some light onyour stuff non posting townies- more of ten then not these are players who are unsure how to play there role or thinking getting rbed means dont post, they aremostly new players, be nice Vet tp/lo calls- i cannot stress this enough ,while this is frowned upon its not gamethorwing. its justa play people do not like,most v ets who do this in tos 2 pay the price since they can be roleblocked now. its like puttinga giant kick me sign on you for evils to kill you. uisally in this sceanrio when i do soemthignthatoutsme as evil, ifi know im expendalbe, i allwo my team to buss me to buy them more time and confimr there own fake claims. while every play is wonderful aslong as itsnot down right thowing. i see whereyour coming form hell, im know nas one ofhtebiggest fightersin tos/tos2 history, litreally won a solo posioner game by faking cursaafer who gotattacked and protected n1.

[@Aru_im]

@@SasCreations2024 learn to write properly first.

[@Zyart]

@@Aru_im Dude writes like he judges. Terribly.

[@_Angry_Potato_]

@@SasCreations2024 vet calling for tp/lo fits the devs definition of game throwing way better than claiming an evil role, especially if you do it in ranked. You are knowingly asking town to visit you so you can kill them. Even if you get rbd, no one will ever believe your vet claim because you asked for tp/lo so then you get hung. Or tp/lo vists you n2 and you kill them then. That is intentionally hurting your teams chances of winning. If you want to call that just a bad play, then fine. But then there’s zero grounds to saying claiming an evil role (even your own role) is automatically gamethrowing. Because claiming an evil role can benefit you and your faction, asking for tp/lo as vet will almost never benefit your team. (Also, I agree with the other comments. Your comments are brutal to parse. This isn’t tos, you have time to proofread what you’ve written and make it legible.)

[@SasCreations2024]

@@_Angry_Potato_ Im just going to make this as clear as possilbe 1. its NOT considered gamethrowing it is heavily frowned upon within the commnity. 2. most people who do ask for tp/lo calls now ether do not get that at all, or poele know its a bait. most vets prefer teh silent alert. did i ever blatantly state claming an evil role is auto gting? no not even once. if you are outted then you have nothing to hide, you are saving your team and giving your team time to confirm themselves. note how isaid IF YOU ARE OUTTED. in teh case of htis, he was not outted, the arso did out him which isa fair play, hence leadning the pois to claming sk in an attmepts to hide, HOEEVER, arsos calim someone is an eivl role all the time [all evisl do[ bottom line, yall are just finding an exuse toget mad onthe inter net iwas just stating mypoints on seein ghte repot myself, maybe yall should mind your bis and not try to be that guy on the net. have a nice day yall :)

[@bartudundar3193]

"Is claiming evil in nonfactional majority gamethrowing ?" This really shouldn't be a debate at all since the answer is extremely obvious: no. A good example is being a CL who got shot by a vigi N2, survived and then claimed WW on D3. Since its not WW night, town should really pursue other leads. This isn't even an uncommon play. ToS 1 had evils claiming PB and ToS 2 has no shortage of evils claiming baker/sc if they are outed immune. It is 100% a legit strategy. It's just that its obviously not a foolproof strategy. You could still be shot by a deputy or more likely, if the town doesn't have any leads you are still getting hung because they have no real reason to let you live. At the end of the day its just a risky but ultimately valid strategy. That is what matters and draws the line between gamethrowing or not. "If applied as a strategy, can it realistically work? Is there potential gain?" Shooting the revealed mayor will literally never give you an advantage in a game so it is gamethrowing. Or more realistically, just randomly outing your CL will not give you a significant advantage. But what if that CL was about to go afk or was already sussed out by the town due to having a bad claim? Bussing your own coven is an extremely common strategy but it contradicts example 1. Ultimately, I think the jurors need to reconsider their position on how to apply judgement when it comes to gamethrowing.

[@TheLifeLaVita]

There was one time shadowbeatz got banned and one of his strikes was a "gamethrow". That strike was his revealing (he was already outed) as a solo mafioso at 3 people left: him, a town, a surv. Asking for the lynch. Literally keeping the fake claim would've lowered the chances of winning by a lot. He asked the jurors and they all explicitly said that it doesn't matter if it's a good strategy or it's the best thing to do or it's the only thing to do, revealing your role as an evil is always gamethrowing for them

[@HotBaraDad666]

This is why jurors should never be trusted. Also, generally survivors side with evil roles more often (and frankly, that survivor is a king maker), so that's literally playing the meta.

[@ChaseJonas75]

A supposed juror commented in reply to a comment under this video, and jeez, I can’t imagine having him as a juror.

[@_Angry_Potato_]

He actually outed himself day 1 I think, maybe day 2. But it was 100% a play and got him pretty far. He worked with town to hunt other evils, and if he got to kingmaker scenario with town, he had a way better chance of winning. Loads of players play the blue vigi card and don’t get banned, it’s the same thing imo. Like in tos1 claiming pb day 1 was a viable strategy that I saw people actually win with, how is it not the same. And the only reason he got his account unbanned was because they walked back a spamming report that got guilted when he hadn’t spammed.

[@superhappygamer1162]

That is absolute garbage.

[@TheLifeLaVita]

@@_Angry_Potato_ yes you're right, funny thing is that the situation in the comment still would apply which is still insanity

[@Underworlder5]

for that gamethrowing report, i will just say this: intent is the major difference between gamethrowing and a misplay. if the intent seems unclear, it would be best to drop the gamethrowing case just to be safe. being this draconian limits the amount of options you can have, and even clean players will get paranoid about potentially being banned from out of nowhere. remember: better to risk letting a guilty go free than to risk getting an innocent convicted

[@wingidon]

3:49 Proud to have been one of the 4 people who super-reacted with ❌️ on that poll. I think the general consensus behind doing that was us going "This role is unhealthy for the game. Get rid of it."

[@nick335online]

-For the def they threw out: "Intentionally losing the game or hurting your teams chances of winning(even if that team is just you) is gamethrowing" -claiming is his own decision -He takes down at the very least arso, another person he poised, and relieves preasure from his team while being able poise one more time.

[@Boundwithflame23]

Doesn’t that third point given contradict the first though? If he relieves pressure off his team while taking arso down with him how does that hurt coven’s chances of winning? What because there’s one less coven now? But it’s also helping them by getting sus off them…wut? Edit: nvm I misread. your comment was structured weirdly my b

[@nick335online]

@@Boundwithflame23 the first point is the definition of gamethrowing

[@Boundwithflame23]

@@nick335online Yeah the other two parts I realized after the fact were your own comments on it. 😅

[@yourbiggestfan395]

@@Boundwithflame23 Don't think there's any contradictions. The play was valid.

[@Boundwithflame23]

@@yourbiggestfan395 I never said it wasn’t a valid play. I misunderstood the OP’s comment when I first read it, that’s all. I mistook ‘def’ to mean “defense” instead of “definition” so I thought the whole thing was a list of reasons given for why the player was banned (hence why I questioned the third point being contradictory to the definition). Didn’t help that I’d just woken up at the time. Ha…

[@prekatori]

Leaving on stand/before being lynched/after being outed and thus causing a teammate or other person to be lynched should be considered gamethrowing and be bannable

[@ominousflames14]

yet people who just disconnect randomly shouldnt be bannable?

[@Underworlder5]

@@ominousflames14 only in repeated offenses. imagine the power going out or the internet just getting grouchy, and when you log back in you find out you are permabanned

[@DespOIcito]

leaving on the stand can be bannable in tos1 if you report it and build up a report history for it

[@newwayto2323]

@@ominousflames14 nope because it can be connection problem in other party because it happen to me many time and if you have connection problem at night time you will be forced leave sadly

[@damonke7674]

Yeah but this rule is also taken to the extreme end. I've seen a report that got voted guilty of a confirmed evil with no teammates (think he was maf?) leaving the game on stand... he had no way to win it and they banned him for leaving anyways lol

[@avocado2079]

Remember chat, that fate of salem is in your hands!

[@Obsructor2]

Welp, time to use my “ *strategic tapestry* “in order for me to come out victorious.

[@PipeTron]

Exciting times lie ahead, and we can't wait for you to explore these new dynamics in the upcoming season!

[@avocado2079]

As this season concludes, be prepared to receive special rewards for your outstanding performance in Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, and the esteemed Masters tier!

[@Skier0915]

Take this time to recharge, and get ready for new challenges and discoveries in the world of Salem.

[@aQuestionator]

how tf do u get banned for a fake claim to get ONE MORE USE out of your character's ability- oh brother.

[@coniption_fit]

That ban ruling sets a pretty bad precedent. Lying about which evil you are when already outed or claiming a lower priority evil to avoid being lynched, truthfully or not, is just a part of the game at this point.

[@duo1666]

Cant claim an evil as evil? Damn, guess coven cant out themselves as coven to push a horseman. This isnt a disconnect between rules the players think and rules the devs think, this is just a flat out mistake if that is why it was judged guilty. Making any rule along the lines of claiming evil as evil is throwing completely throws nuanced gameplay and trickery/manipulation out the window.

[@Underworlder5]

i remember one game where death revealed itself and i decided to come out at necro, even confirming myself with last nights results (i used crus on myself to survive a vigi shot). that play led to me winning the game down the line, but according to this logic, i guess i was actually gamethrowing this whole time seriously, though. trials should be more lenient in regards to gamethrowing. intent is the main difference between gamethrowing and a misplay, and letting a thrower go free is better than permabanning a clean player. if the case seems unsolvable, just drop it. game judgement might boil down to "guilty just in case. we have the numbers", but that does not carry over to judging real offenses

[@duo1666]

@@Underworlder5 I dont think there needs to be more leniency, i think this is just a stupid call by people who dont really play the game at a competitive level or are too busy rules lawyering something that isnt supposed to be exact gospel in a game of human interaction and deceit. And also if a vet can ask for tp/lo n1, alert and wipe townies and not be called gamethrowing by those self-same rules lawyers, claiming evil as evil to get some temporary benefit clearly isnt gamethrowing.

[@flightyavian]

​​@@duo1666 Vet asking for TPLO n1 and alerting is definitely throwing in my books. Town generally do go on TPLO claims. Killing roles don't generally target people who ask for TPLO at night. At best, you wipe out a single evil and reveal that there are apparently no town protectives. Usually though, you'll just wipe out a chunk of town. I believe that this deserves to be given a warning for. It is literally comedic that claiming solo SK as poisoner, which is a really pathetic NK in TOS1, and will definitely buy you a day or two while town focuses on trying to find coven. Battling the arso push outright especially when you have a pathetically weak Psy claim will get you roleblocked or shot at night, even if you say im definitely not evil. The arso has no reason to lie- in fact, doing this would give a second arso a bigger chance of winning. So claiming something that isnt a priority lynch and allows you to continue doing your job despite being outed as evil...

[@duo1666]

@@flightyavian Heres the thing, staff and mods already confirmed that vet asking for tp/lo is not throwing in and of itself. You have to prove they intended to kill townies. Being bad at the game or making a shit play doesnt equal throwing. This is the standard they have already set for themselves is my point.

[@flightyavian]

@@duo1666 staff and mods must be out of touch then. Vet asking for TPLO should be considered gamethrowing regardless of what the intention was. Some plays are always throwing no matter what, and if shooting the TPOW claim as vigi/dep because you felt silly is considered throwing then so should alerting N1. In fact I'd just take away the veterans ability to alert N1 if I were being honest. The whole idea that a veteran could claim TPLO screws over his faction immediately and even screws up other games, because if an important role like jailor doesn't want to die N1 so asks for TPLO but no TP go on them because it's always a veteran and then they die to a shroud who didn't even want to play the game... This is beyond a simple throw, since no townie can kill more than a single townie at night. To add insult to injury, veteran basically gets rewarded for killing townies by getting confirmed. This is the most hurtful thing that could happen to town and people treat it like losing two-three townies N1 to an asshole veteran is completely fine. It's a shit play that's so bad it's gamethrowing because the only worse thing you could do is knight evils as monarch or vote with evils as mayor, and even that seems possible to happen via getting sheeped. Choosing to alert N1 would do way more damage than any single town role could do, and this is just merely a shit play?

[@wraxiusgaming]

Now even Ada is getting on the reddit drama and not just watching with popcorn

[@SJ431]

There have been lots of times I claimed the lesser evil when I popped as death, That's not game-throwing if fake claiming a different evil helps me win

[@HotBaraDad666]

Excuse me but how is buying yourself extra time to do more actions of your role when you are already outed gamethrowing? I think the drama was VERY MUCH necessary, especially when entire accounts are on the line for this crap.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

I have to agree. The Trial System is a joke. It's an absolute joke.

[@asetheticaii3001]

Claiming evil = gamethrowing is awful logic, especially in a social deduction game?? It isn't anything different than a jester claiming evil, it works towards their goal in some way, so they did it.

[@lorathian]

The fact they weren't outed was the thing that made it gamethrowing

[@HotBaraDad666]

@@lorathian they were outed in the will of the person they pushed!

[@DespOIcito]

@@lorathian but they were outed, the arsonist outed them as an attacker after they got lynched

[@sunjian9818]

As someone in Tuba's server, they take community suggestions into consideration. Both seeing if it's good, and giving feedback. Rather good server and most of them are rather kind.

[@Skier0915]

Everyone remember to keep your wits sharp, as your bonds may not endure the turmoil happening in Salem.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

1:40 I love that art so much. I feel like it could be used as a meme.

[@SirenPandaSabo]

Ada shoots Pipe. Pipe was Traitor Mayor.

[@AbsolsRazorWind]

Wow, that Trickster change is ridiculously good. It's now a Town Protective in addition to functioning more like it's release version? That's absolutely sick!

[@kurtmatteson4914]

And you get to play the role like you would want to play a Town Protective: trying to predict who gets attacked and saving them if you're right. You're not forced to stay on the confirmed Deputy like a robot because you have limited protections. Additionally, you get rewarded for saving someone by getting to attack someone you think is evil. If they're town, you don't get punished. You can even fake claim the role if you're evil. It's really just a top-tier role in terms of game design.

[@sheendawggy54]

Is it gamethrowing if a survivor doesn’t claim survivor d1 and instead acts like a jester to make the town believe they’re a jester therefore avoids getting lynched so they survive?

[@adamperdue3178]

Hell, for a while you could claim it was gamethrowing for a survivor to claim survivor.

[@bartudundar3193]

ToS 2 doesn't have survivor and technically speaking Survivors wouldn't really be able to gamethrow. I know the rule says "even if that faction is just you" but it really means other neutral killings. A surv doing a suicidal play isn't really a reportable offense.

[@sheendawggy54]

@@bartudundar3193 bro that’s what I’m saying you “survive” by any means necessary, so I like to pretend to be dumb when I’m surv

[@tradexvoid]

ngl some days i miss survivor. while it can be a boring role, and kingmakers are never fun (an issue still around in TOS2), having multiple in one game all shouting "SURV GANG" and just causing chaos was/is hilarious

[@psy-tr8sr]

was hoping that tos2 was going to be more than this, uh... yeah idk i've given up at this point, three months with no content and then the devs being like "hey guys you choose :3" just feels like they spent the last three months doing almost nothing related to game balance, the game's felt like it's going downhill, don't mean to be a downer but town of salem 2 is just not what it's cracked up to be anymore

[@Adagia]

It’s been hard to maintain motivation to hang around while the game’s been in this state ngl

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@Adagia I'm just disappointed that the game ended up in this sorry state.

[@purplefreedom1631]

So let me get this straight... Aros: "hang me, but 7 is poisoner" 7: "LIES! I'm blue vigi helping town, find coven they bigger threat!" 7: gets another kill, wastes a tracker's night, AND doesn't get shot by a real vigi so town now has to waste the day to guilty them... So how is that gamethrowing when literally all of it helps their team?

[@HotBaraDad666]

"Hurr durr, because they could claim they are not coven or something anyway. Why trust the aros in the first place? They could've made a play without claiming to be evil." Unfortunately, this is someone who really had this opinion.

[@purplefreedom1631]

@@HotBaraDad666 I saw that someone in some of the other comments, by far the most lissencephalic thing I've read this morning.

[@magetsalive5162]

As someone who doesn't actually play ToS but _does_ watch a lot of Pipton uploads, it is my opinion that the poisoner was not gamethrowing. They did not throw their team under the bus, they were clearly trying to stick around longer to keep contributing to their team. I guess you can argue that falsely claiming SK might make town more likely to be rid of you, but they might not have had any better options to claim at the moment - and they still didn't claim their true role, anyway. I'm more inclined to think that somebody got seriously bootyblasted and sent a report as a result. Dunno what was up with whoever read the report, but they apparently sided with the buttfrustrated party for reasons known only to them.

[@lorathian]

Nah, it's a blatant gamethrow since they claimed evil in a scenario where that wasn't even close to necessary. The jury and judge who voted to guilty that were 100% correct.

[@HotBaraDad666]

@@lorathian They were outed in the will. Are you deaf or something?

[@Wildcard65]

2 players minimum are required to report the same person in order for a report on the Trial System, after that at least 7 players must vote guilty on the report for it to be sent to the Trial Judges for the final verdict.

[@Loops-1]

So I commented on Reddit that the primary cause of all this drama is that the devs don’t have a clear definition of game throwing. If there are more examples that people keep being banned for, they should add them to a list for all to see. The mod said bmg actually does have an exhaustive list of plays that could be considered game throwing but they deliberately don’t share this with active players as they don’t want to “give game throwers ideas”. So instead of helping people better understand the rules, they just have a secret sub set of rules they can ban you for breaking without ever telling you what they are. Long story short, bmg could not care less about the outrage. They have a solution and have had it for ages. But willfully choose to ban people instead of providing additional information to the rules. This kind of attitude is why I went from playing 2 hours a day to only one game a month on average.

[@SpentaofWater349]

In my of games i was playing as CK Medusa and was outed as evil due to my psy will being inaccurate, So in my deathnote I wrote: "Pm revealed is Jester". By doing so I framed myself as evil but ended up not being pushed. Claiming evil or framing yourself or team mates isn't game throwing.

[@last_dutch_hero258]

The trickster thingy was about the same thing i've been sugesting on the official discord. redirecting attacks, like a solely TP-focused transporter from ToS1. I really like the idea of redirecting a attack straight into a loudmouth reghunter...

[@VagueCastle649]

The trial juror system is unfortunately very understaffed by leau' of it being volunteer work Thousands of reports just simply go closed without judgment

[@VagueCastle649]

Also ayy new roles

[@TheTrueCokeAddict]

"Better ToS 2 Mod Tho, I think its really gonna be good. I've played the first Better ToS mod and it was good. Really loved Judge" -TheTrueJudge was here

[@theratraider9357]

tbh claiming evil isn't that bad. Like, if youre outed immune claiming exe or something buys you time to win so like idk

[@xakurogaming]

It's so wild to me that person got banned, it's like the judges didn't even read chat or see what was going on, they just saw "I'm sk" and decided that was bad. Bro 💀

[@hword5notsoofficial803]

"How balanced is trickster?" 44 people for some reason: *LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER NOISE*

[@kormannn1]

I think Tuba had a video where they claimed coven as Death and got away with it.

[@SasCreations2024]

I know the vid you speak of, with tubas game its an entier lobby of "pre mades" most of the time, so hes playing with firends, playing wiht freinds [let alone an eniter lobby of them] i feel liek they have there ow nlittle rule sets [i woudl know ive playeda few games wiht hte mXD]

[@dexterlily3266]

Me after hearing new roles coming: Oh no I hope they won’t have impossible achievements that I will try to get naturally before going custom.

[@Bruce_P-Z]

Wait, you’re telling me that you honestly think that they WONT do that?

[@Mrperson1233]

@@Bruce_P-Z my guy they got easy achievments

[@unknowed5048]

Apoc TT is pretty pog on the mod side

[@barberickarc3460]

We love free mod loader advertisement 💯

[@xoctavia1418]

My question is, who reported them for gamethrowing???? I've had moments where i've had to make HORRIBLE decisions, like pushing against my own NA to ensure one of use lives long enough to transform, and gets confirmed, since they wouldn't suspect the surviving player as a NA. And it worked. I died as Soul collector, pushing hard on my Baker when it was just 5 players left, and baker transformed the next day, Hanging a town, Only for him to die to a Monarch and his knight. game throwing shouldn't be veiwed as a solidary instance of what was said, but a genuine question of "why did you do this action?" If a jester happens to keep calling out evils and surviving, is he game throwing, or is he just (un)lucky in his picks, and got confirmed. it's dumb he got punished, but the comunities responce was not right either. ;-;

[@raccoonsgrace2232]

while i am normally a huge fan of your content, i do want to point out that the “people blew things way out of proportion without waiting for an appeal” comment is misleading. numerous judges, trial mods and ToS social media mods (of which there is plenty of overlap) confirmed that they believed the decision they made was the correct one, and without the massive controversy sparked by the decision to ban a long time player and well known member of the community, it’s likely that a ban appeal would go nowhere. so rather than seeing it as “people blew things up without waiting for an appeal”, i see it more as “people blew things up in order to get a swift and fair appeal”.

[@lorathian]

No, people really DID blow it out of proportion. Misrepresenting your ban on a platform that doesn’t handle appeals does not in any way, shape, or form get you a “fair and swift appeal.” No one gets special treatment for whining about their valid reports to a horde of people who prove time and time again that they don’t actually know the rules for the game. If they had acted like a normal person and posted their appeal on the forums as they’re supposed to, everything would have been handled without a massive fuss.

[@Loops-1]

@@lorathiandoesn’t change the fact that the initial ban was dumb. They can’t have a set of rules they refuse to share then ban people for breaking them. Claiming another faction as evil when you’ve already been outed to buy yourself time is not gamethrowing. It’s self preservation.

[@saltclaws]

If claiming a different evil role is throwing and bannable then so should outing another evil's role in your will/death note/chat. Which is just a net negative all around for everyone. But on a more serious note, do the jurors like or play the game? The arso was likely the person who made the report just because they got lynched and not the poisoner. Not being able to claim an evil role is like playing in a lobby where all the roles are confirmed; not fun. More daring and skillful players will eventually get bored with the game and move on. Congrats to the jurors if they manage to kill the game like that.

[@samant7101]

>fake claims another evil >wins the game because did the social deception and good play that helped the win >gamethrowing >wtf

[@unjustcarlie]

Was considering trying tos2 since itd been a while since i played tos1 and after reading some comments about a jury member who voted guilty saying the player made a good play made me realize ill just stick to watching.

[@jorj949]

I was once outed as CL, we won the game because I claimed it and that I was solo so town never focused on me, despite it being a 4 man coven. Those plays get wins, i hadnt heard of this ban and I think its stupid.

[@genesisosuna]

In tos1, I got banned (for a week) for claiming ww day 1 and then attacking the confirmed vet. But what got me banned was the fact that in dead chat I was sarcastically saying like yeah I wanted to die this role sucks etc etc... But like you said, you don't know a player's true intentions. It was an all any game and I've won games by claiming d1 before. Either as jugg, arso, ww, etc... So it was not out of the ordinary for me to do such a thing. I'm just having fun and messing around after all. So I asked one of the forum mods that is it gamethrowing if I claimed arso d1 then proceeded to win the game, and they said yes. So I was left scratching my head and completely dumbfounded with that answer. How can it be gamethrowing if I literally won the game. Also, my initial response to why I said and did the things I did as ww that game that got me banned, was the person had already alerted n1 and we knew who the vet was. Most likely, vets don't alert after being outed, because evils won't visit them. So I was banking on that chance and getting a confirmed townie out of the way. Since I died n2 , it is impossible for the mods or the player that reported me to know my true intentions that game or what I was gonna do. In my will, I put "s*iciding into vet" (as a troll, obviously, that was not my intention). So while I did claim ww d1 and that was the thing the forum mod kept bringing up, getting a confirmed townie out of the game does not hurt or lessen the chances of me winning the game. Many people claim random claims d1, either real or troll, so I don't think this is viable or bulletproof evidence of me gamethrowing. Point is, the trial system sucks. Hell, I got reported for a death note that said "you're dead" in Spanish. Fortunately nothing came of that. When reviewing my reports, I knew I was done with this community. I like the game, but with how the community is, I'm not tempted to come back.

[@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo]

5:12 funk?(12)

[@MintyFreshToS]

Thank you thank you for talking some about modded :)

[@crazygreip]

The "gamethrow" is pretty clear to me. There is absolutely 0 way to tell if someone is gamethrowing unless they admit it or its extremely obvious like killing revealed mayor / deputy. Even killing someone that has claimed very strong role its not gamethrow to kill them, because they could be lying so entire situation is just silly

[@LAZERAK47V2]

Gamethrowing is when you deliberately sabotage either yourself or your team for an objective. For instance, being outted as evil and then claiming SK to avoid being RB'd is NOT gamethrowing, at that point, the cat's out of the bag, you have to do whatever you can to advance your objective, yes, even claiming evil. It would be no different than claiming Doomsayer or Executioner in ToS2, in the hopes that people ignore you and let you do your own thing. What IS gamethrowing is outting yourself as evil on D2, just to get someone hanged. Nobody has pushed you, nobody has asked for your role, so outright saying "Hey town, I'm Coven and attacked this guy, he had defense." is straight up gamethrowing. You are not only hurting your team by doing this, you're also ruining the game for the player you hit, rather than trying to push them as a TI, for instance, especially if the player you hit is something that isn't an immediate threat, like SC or Baker.

[@yusufkaanpvogameplay5542]

Since im not in the discord server server reworking trickster to be a transporter like role would be nice (the name fits as well since your tricking people into visiting different houses)

[@TwistedTeaRex]

Every day when Adagia uploads is a good day.

[@qberrygamz7049]

great video!. I would like to talk about admirer I wanna talk about admire because its my favorite role, I just want to share the idea I had for admirer that\s may be overpowered. but i would be interested in players feedback. I have said this in multiple lobbies talking about admirer I think when admirer has a town lover they should gain basic defense. ala monarch. now that sounds crazy but think about what that does for the Admirer they now cannot be killed randomly by shroud, sk{without bloodlust}, and all Coven killing that's not CL. now they can still die to a rit, Arsonist, Doom, WW, CL while empowered, broken heart, sk with bloodlust. pirate. I think basic defense gives the admirer that power amplification that Town supports are supposed to give. preventing them from being so easily caught off guard and taking 2 town with them. think about it it right now people think admirer is a liability. With basic defense i think it gives the admirer a level of reliability that cant really be ignored. Also remove the cooldown between proposing and caring for a lover. that just makes no sense IMO. if that means the admirer becomes non astral I think that could be a good compromise if you think its too op. Also doom needs to be unique

[@adamperdue3178]

If you're going to buff it like that, I think you also need to make it so that if you're killed while in a toxic relationship then your will is bloodied. Right now admirer plays more like a TI, and with those changes you'd effectively be a free TP chain as well.

[@qberrygamz7049]

​@adamperdue3178 I disagree that steps on the toes of both medusa and enchanter. As stated above the admirer wouldn't get basic defense from toxic relationships only healthy ones And they would still be silenced. As well as losing one of their cares. I think that if a 3vil chooses to accept a admirer they need to deal with the problem of them existing not just freely cripple the role.

[@adamperdue3178]

@@qberrygamz7049 Well you're getting rid of the downside of admirer without adding any counterplay against it. If you're town, you'd have no reason to deny (since your lover now has defense and likely isn't going to get you randomly killed, AND you confirm yourself, AND you get protection) so you'd get thrown out for denying, while still getting a free out if you chose an evil. I don't think you should have to play around the possibility of a medusa or enchanter being in the game (or even if they're in the game, it won't matter if you're not coven)

[@qberrygamz7049]

@adamperdue3178 your right. There isn't much reason it does not accept admirer, but basically, saying the admirer is a free kill if they propose wrong with the only downside being the evils don't kill someone else thwt night doesn't solve thwt issue. Consider it like this you want an admirers will to be deleted. If they die to anything while I'n a toxic relationship. I think that's too strong using all any as a base where 5 town is the most common thing that means that n2 assuming no town death n1 there's a 5/7 chance that the admirer enters a toxic relationship effectively neutralizing the role and thwt player until day 4 which they won't live to see with your idea becuadr there is no downside to killing the admirer while in a toxic relationship. I guess it could be a good thing, though, if you removed the caring coooldown. It would encourage the admirer to be more careful with their proposing, though.

[@elgato1721]

Oh so that's why someone in all any yesterday said that "claiming pirate is gamethrowing".

[@Bless-ms4uo]

I am so excited for an actual patch

[@danmunition9777]

Babe wake up! Ada uploaded!

[@IohannesCR]

Transporter should be added as a unique town power, but with visitors knowing the target was transported, and a coven power transporter- coven faking town power would be fucking awesome

[@superl8296]

Visitors knowing target was transported is interesting, but I feel like that makes transporter fake claim weaker. Imo fake claiming by just lying is way cooler than having a cov role that just does the same thing as the role you’re fake claiming as. Also I feel like it could easily be TS.

[@IohannesCR]

@@superl8296 people get worked up over transporter cause it messes with results (and forces transporter to claim), the coven power role would function EXACTLY like the transporter. Transporter’s ability to completely fuck over coven at night- and town if you’re not careful- warrants town power

[@Snaps12345]

Im not really active anymore in the community but did people seriously just now realize that the rules of this game make no sense? These are discussions I was having almost 2 years ago and almost everyone was defending these rules.

[@Probba]

I'm with you there. The "claiming evil is gamethrowing no matter what" nonsense is part of the reason I quit 2 years ago.

[@Bruce_P-Z]

Wake up, new Ada video

[@minecraftpocketedition2016]

I disagree with your claim that the banned player shouldnt have made the reddit post instead of waiting for an appeal. Thanks to the post you could see that the dev (who you disagree with) has shared their opinion about this openly and they compared this situation to something entirely else meaning they are pretty much disconnected with the game (and that the appeal wouldnt have worked). Ive stopped playing ToS because the game itself is stressful enough for me but the fact the community is so toxic and trigger happy when it comes to reports for gamethrowing with the devs and jury banning and pretty much getting our money spent for the game away for absolutely nothing malicious we did is the very thing keeping me away from this.

[@lang5cott]

In my honest opinion, the Trickster is the best role in Town of Salem 2, offering an exhilarating and captivating experience whether you play as the Trickster or find yourself facing them as an opponent. Taking on the role of the Trickster provides a thrilling sense of power and strategy. Strategically Taunting players and manipulating their actions keeps on you the edge of your seet as you carefully choose your targets to disrupt evil plans and safegaurd the Town. The thrill of deceiving malevolent roles, making them question your true intention, and using your own abilities against them is second to none. Conversely, when you're up against a skilled Trickster, the challenge of deciphering their true identity amidst the veil of suspicion adds an exciting layor of complexity to the game. The cat-and-mouse dynamics create an engaging and fun-filled atmosphere, making every interaction with the Trickster a memorable and exhilarating experience in Town of Salem 2.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

You got AI to write this, didn't you?

[@lang5cott]

@@kurtmatteson4914 It's a copypasta

[@LuddyFish_]

Because of seer's raw strength as a TI and how simple it is, would it make sense to make it a TPow role? Let seer not be targetable by rit/doom still, but simply make it so that there can only be one of them, and they have the chance of replacing a different TPow. TPows are basically a mix of powerful TS (mayor and mon) and TK (jailor and pros) roles. All we'll be doing is adding TI into the mix.

[@fresnovik]

BTos2 is actually fire.

[@monokun_6072]

i feel that instead of just showing some examples they should show all to cause less confusion, i rather read more than to get a temporary ban about something not disclosed

[@Darth-_-Maul]

What happened

[@superl8296]

The devs logic (from what I’ve heard I tried to find a screenshot of this being said but I couldn’t so take this with a grain of salt.) is they have a very detailed list of what is and what isn’t allowed but refuse to show it because if they give a clear cut of the rules people will tiptoe on the edge of what’s allowed and not allowed to cheat the system. To me this make’s literally no sense unless the rules are made in a very weird way which is what I think is happening. Since gamethrowing is all about intention and it’s REALLY hard to tell intention I’m thinking that they look for specific phrases of admission or other things of the sort that will save you or make you get banned regardless of the play (regardless isn’t the right world I don’t mean in this scenario specific plays aren’t considered throwing or not throwing at all I just mean that’s not where the emphasis is) If this were true it’d make sense why they don’t wanna reveal how they do things as people would just pretend to be a bad player or not say the things that get people banned

[@kurtmatteson4914]

I was playing a ranked game in ToS 1 as Retri, and the Neutral Killing was a Werewolf. Town lost majority pretty quickly, and I was able to find who the Werewolf was thanks to a dead Investigator. I then whispered to them (with 4 town and 6 evils alive), "you're ww aren't you," and they responded, "yes." One of the Mafia members was being a jerk in the chat and claiming Werewolf, so I had decided to help the real Werewolf win, and he did. Now, if both of them were reported for claiming an evil role, they surely would've been suspended. But were they actually throwing?

[@flippylekitty]

Well, at least the two new roles can't be as bad as trickster, right? *Right?*

[@newwayto2323]

btw trickster useful for ret or some tp stay on them

[@flippylekitty]

@@newwayto2323 And that is exactly the problem because Trickster can't be punished in those cases!

[@BookyPGier]

Ok, I know Prosecutor is the worse TPower but third place feels like a stretch when we have Dreamweaver, Illusionist and Shroud.

[@newwayto2323]

most underpower is mayor you cant have defense when you reveal is bad . . . at least just make cleric or BG cant visit is enough (and only jailor can save mayor is so sad...)

[@sergantpig9932]

Honestly Expected Coroner to be in the underpowered section considering how many people hate playing it

[@xzenderx]

Game throwing as a bannable offense is actually really. Really. REALLLY REALLL! Simple. The definition is simply, losing the game on purpose. Therefor you need proof of a player deliberately losing. There was no proof. He shouldn't have been banned. Thats it really.

[@cooperdsfuntv]

I’ve reported two jailor for game throwing they literally exed me for their name THEY KNEW I WAS TOWN

[@sojourn6207]

Question: Is Death not allowed to claim Serial Killer, then?

[@CR1MSONACE]

Is trickster being reworked _again?_

[@Adagia]

I hope so lol

[@Bruce_P-Z]

It better be the Btos2 one is amazing (I’m not in the closed beta but based on the mod update streams and the one tuba video where it was mentioned, it seems a lot better)

[@insertsarcasm]

They should rework trickster by replacing it with transporter from TOS1 problem solved

[@voidfloof]

@@insertsarcasm actually I think trickster might have been intended to be a rework of transporter

[@Anami00u]

I’m hoping for new coven, specifically deception coven to indirectly nerf seer, and I agree to bring transporter back. On an unrelated note, who do you spend the holidays with? Friends, Family, or Solo?

[@Adagia]

Real answer is family, but my friends are on team friends and I wanna play with them, so that’s the team I’m fighting for this weekend

[@masonseminario7435]

“Is claiming town as town gamethrowing?” Makes sense cuz the evils would target town 😂😂

[@safeforwork8546]

I hate the "IF we make anything explicit people will just skirt the rules and argue!" argument because like...then you can just say no, isn't that your job, to arbitrate?

[@4ovaknd967]

Saying maf members in ghost chat after 1 medium is dead and not knowing there is 2 because it's all any after I die as maf is not throwing

[@kurtmatteson4914]

You don't know if the dead Medium has a seance unless they tell you.

[@sirquixano5985]

I kinda hope trickster becomes town ritualist

[@slavisastojakovic3400]

I really really hope the new role is not transporter nor something similar to transporter because in ToS1 transporter is super super overpowered

[@HotBaraDad666]

It's Marshal (which you might know from Better ToS/2), and Socialite, who during the day, can allow everyone to speak during the following night.

[@starmic1852]

What if the vigi shoots the reveal mayor when the only other player left is a vampire?

[@kurtmatteson4914]

Why would the vigi not shoot the vampire? Getting converted on the night you die of guilt doesn't save you.

[@jumnei5159]

4:15 all Dreamweaver does right now is confirm townies. you need a voodoo to be somewhat useful and you would be confirming townies the next day. I'd argue it's literally the worst role in the game. using it's ability is throwing in most cases

[@andrewhawkins6754]

If DW's ability made someone random their ability and votes for a day, it might be worthwhile. kinda like a VM but more screwy on the ability side.

[@jumnei5159]

@@andrewhawkins6754 yeah make the insanity take place the very next day. it would still confirm townies but at least actually do something

[@xtxownage]

Following this logic, I should be banned for my Mayor play from 2 years ago, when I pretended to be executioner as mayor and helped the werewolf kill everyone so I could snatch the win from him. Even though I won the game for my team, I should have just remained completely silent and let myself be killed in the town with about 3 townies TOTAL.

[@RealBasil143]

whoever reported that needs to go outside, touch grass, eat healthily, and get a pair of glasses

[@Trimman-rq4kl]

We want to see Trickster in the eyes of the community! NO

[@synapsayer]

Would revealing your role as NK be considered gamethrowing? (ToS2) Because I do it a LOT as WW, and it seems to actually work in terms of winning the game if you play your cards right

[@Underworlder5]

not if you do it with intent to win. intent is the difference between a misplay and gamethrowing

[@Nexit1337]

should've just said the player was doused from checking on him, day 1 is litterally 50/50 to hit the arso or the one he doused 🗿

[@kurtmatteson4914]

All the Poisoner knew is that the person they tried to poison had defense/was healed. They didn't know it was an Arsonist.

[@floatingleaff]

I voted X on trickster :)

[@NicoTheCinderace]

Also, ❌

[@asetheticaii3001]

You should only be banned for gamethrowing if its clearly an attempt to throw the game, not if it was a play made by a "terrible player" Imagine playing the game, doing something fully believeing it would help you or your team, and then you get BANNED?

[@sirzul7552]

IF there was a role for transporter in tos2 then I would name it smuggler and not transporter, transporter just sounds weird because thats not like a real job or just what you call somone.

[@TaxiDermie]

Reddit makes the Jurors seem "more high up on a pedestal" when literally anyone thats played 150 games of ToS at a minimum. So like 90% of players CAN BE JURORS. This alone is why i think yhe whole juror situation is ridiculous.

[@morwe_]

Yippie!

[@ethantimegaming1682]

nice to see a vid this early, might even be first XD

[@superhappygamer1162]

The report system should work like the actual legal system. The reported person should get to respond before a decision is made, and they should not be considered guilty unless there is no reasonable doubt. Imagine if you were arrested for murder and didn’t get to state your case until after you had already gone to prison.

[@tjdiamonds123]

❌

[@awsomepokemon1060]

❌

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@awsomepokemon1060 ❌

[@ZetaArcticana4006]

❌

[@Bless-ms4uo]

❌

[@Darth-_-Maul]

Tnx to Town of Salem I broke up whit my girlfriend best game

[@dartimes6048]

I had a similar GT report, I claimed blackmailer on the stand. I was outed by my own will and I misread a real spy will. I claimed blackmailer on the stand to buy my mafia time AND to cause chaos.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

...That sounds like game throwing. Sure, you didn't out anyone except yourself, but you decreased your chances of winning by not defending yourself (you could've said something like, "I made a mistake but I'm still Town," for example). And of all the evil roles to claim, Mafia and Coven (unless you claim you're solo for pity's sake) are the two that Town will hang you for most often because majority is the strongest weapon in the game.

[@dartimes6048]

@@kurtmatteson4914 it was ranked… I was outed, if I didn’t do that my mafia would have been the victims of VFR.

[@kurtmatteson4914]

@dartimes6048 From the sound of it, you got hung and gave the Jailor a chance to jail one of your teammates. Defending yourself gave you a chance at living for the rest of the day and causing chaos in chat by attempting to lead VFR in weird directions and taking the execution yourself. You caused order, not chaos, and the Mafia as a whole was given less time to live. They got more time to come up with claims, but they didn't get to claim something like Vigilante who shot you in jail or Transporter who tried to transport you with a townie.

[@dartimes6048]

@@kurtmatteson4914 VFR is a powerful tool used by town, if I wasn’t lynched at first trial I would have been jailed and executed or lynched at final trial and town would have gotten 2 or 3 VFRs in.

[@dartimes6048]

Our mafia was BMer/Consort. My lynch allowed our consort to claim escort without reprocussions because my will had an MVx2 town thought I was framing someone as immune and our consort could claim escort.

[@CyanZone69]

this is rigged

[@dlfhtr-o8x]

Reddit doing stupid shit should be expected

[@ominousflames14]

I love how so many people say trickster is OP, but bodyguard is balanced. They basically do the same thing.

[@superl8296]

No they don’t. A bodyguard protects an attack. It’s a back and forth between the killer and bg. The killer can decide who they kill and decide “I should not kill this person because there might be a tp on them”. This cannot happen with trickster. If a trickster selects you and you’re a killer well then too bad you’re dead now.

[@FGenthusiast0052]

It is OP, because there's no counterplay nor skill needed to use the role. You could easily kill N1 the hidden Serial Killer, because you just started with number 1. The SK cannot do anything to protect themselves from the attack, nor ways to counter it. You could have easily reached to kill the SK by deduction or mere luck, and still get the same result. That's the problem. You saving a target as the Bodyguard has its merit, due to deduction, defending the proper target While the BG and Trickster somewhat do the same thing, the Bodyguard HAS counterplay (Illusionist on CK, Astral attack, Shroud shrouded the BG). The only counterplay the Trickster has is Necromancer, Witch and 3/4 Apocalypse. Moreover, that there's no limit on usage, so even if you don't kill someone, you can keep tricking the day after. The fact alone you can just press random people and still get a result, is the problem. Even more so for NKs that already have it hard working alone, and you are putting that as a counterplay? That's very dumb. Trickster has been talked a lot by the community, and it's an unhealthy role for the game for those reasons. Why you think people jokingly call it "The highest skill role in the game"?

[@ominousflames14]

@@FGenthusiast0052 Well with that line of thinking, then conjurer should be reworked. There is literally no counter play for when they use their ability. Only difference, they don't have to look for a killing role.

[@superl8296]

@@ominousflames14The conjurer has one day kill so they will choose to use it wisely. Conjurer as a role exists TO BE a counter to important roles claiming early and leading the town. If you want to not be killed by conjurer your best bet is to stay quiet about what you are exactly or fake claim if you’re an important role like a tpow. Of course you could still be killed by a conjurer randomly but this isn’t a problem in the same way it is for tricker for one reason: coven killing people is a normal needed thing. The game revolves around coven killing someone everyday. The coven getting one extra kill per game is not overpowered unless that one extra kill is an important townie every time. So again this is where that important townie’s counter play comes in. A conjurer usually nukes early game so you can wait till after to claim tpow or a lesser townie can bait out the conjurer or a coroner can confirm there isn’t a conjurer in the game in the first place. There’s also other differences such as only one conjurer being possible per game as well as no shenanigans with extra ability usages like trickster has with being healed and ret revival

[@FGenthusiast0052]

@@ominousflames14 while there's certainly no counterplay, it is by no means broken. As super already mentioned, a Conjure is a one-time thing only, so it needs to be used wisely, be it to get out a major threat, or even get the last step needed for victory. Trickster has infinite uses, and again, you can use it without any worry because you will force them to attack you regardless, so there is no consequence at all; be it intentional or not.