Discussion of John Gwynne's 'Valor' || Book 2 of The Faithful and the Fallen

This is the second of a four-part collab with some awesome people about John Gwynne's Faithful and the Fallen series! Come join us in our discussion about why Jael sucks, why we love Corban, and why Lykos's grappling hook is bullshark. Both non-spoiler and spoiler sections!
Collaborators:
‪@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy‬
‪@alexnieves‬
‪@PetrikLeo‬
Abby: / @abbysalter
Goodreads: / libraryofallenxandria
IG: / library.of.allenxandria
Patreon: / allenxandria
Discord: / discord
Music courtesy of: www.reverbnatio...
For the generous souls who wish to bestow upon me the blessing of books! www.amazon.com...

[@AbbySalter]

This was so much fun! Thank you Allen for hosting. So looking forward to discussing Ruin next month! And I am still in shock as Allen admitted to liking the romance and the animal companions! What a REVELATION!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Thank YOU for being a part of it! And yes, I thought the romances were very subtle and sweet, which I liked a lot. And the birds together were win for sure, rather than Craf sitting in the hut shrieking all day.

[@PetrikLeo]

Thank you for hosting this, Allen! Such a great and fun discussion! Looking forward to Ruin's discussion next month!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Same! Thanks so much for being a part of it, Petrik!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

What a blast! Allen, it’s possible that one of the best parts of this will be looking back to see how wrong we were in our predictions. It’s a great sign for a story if it surprises you. I’m really excited to continue this with you and our other BookTube buddies!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Agreed! I can't wait to see how wrong we are! This was so much fun!

[@KellyQ123]

I loved the little moments when Corban and his friends just got to be silly teenage boys. Farrell getting drunk and asking Coralen if she likes bears. Or when Dath flat out laughs at Corban being the chosen one.

[@JashanaC]

MAQUIN 💜 OMG YES CAMLINNN he is my absolute fave I love him with my whole entire heart ugh

[@JashanaC]

I don’t want to leave spoilery comments but yeah that one character... at the end... with those two words as they go out 😭

[@JashanaC]

Nathair. Ugh. 😑

[@JashanaC]

God Evnis is such a dumbass. I can’t wait for everyone in the chat to finish the series...!!!! 😄🤩

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Camlin is fantastic - he’s got a great arc with real conflict and development, and I can’t help loving him.

[@JashanaC]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy He's probably one of my all-time favorite characters -- just such an innate sense of integrity. I loooove that!

[@charlesgabriel5569]

Awesome Discussion ! Looking forward to the next one. As Petrik rightly said , Malice set the foundation for the characters , that's why the non stop action in Valour works .

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

SO GOOD. Thanks for tuning in!

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

100% the set up from Malice makes Valour such an amazing book.

[@AshtheViking]

I love Maquin. He remained my favourite throughout the series.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I love that tough old man!

[@noname3609]

What an amazing convo guys ! Loved Valour so much !!! :)

[@jemofabook]

I am so glad you guys are doing this - your predictions are fantastic and I'm so excited to watch the rest of this series! I am absolutely loving seeing so many people picking up these books now! Thanks for doing these chats, it's so fun following along with you all =]

[@TheKmahrt]

So excited you are having these discussions! I’ll be back once I finish Valor (I’m in the middle of Malice right now)

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

YESSSSS hurry back!

[@sweetkarolines]

In my goodreads review I talked about whenever anyway starts saying "the greater good" you need to watch out! I agree gray characters that are well written and complex are the most interesting really. Veradis for sure is gray. And Camlin was in that he started as a thief and not a great guy but not horrible. I just love the complexity of these characters so much.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Agree! And 'the greater good' is such a dodgy concept for sure.

[@Stelfc]

This was my fav out the 4 the ending was brilliant, so many short chapters with satisfying ending ,but Maquin ending was awesome with a brilliant final line

[@Eonva]

I enjoyed this so much, seeing so many of my own thoughts on this series here and looking forward to the discussion of the other books! : "How does Gwynne do this?!?!" 😂 MAGIC!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

SORCERY!

[@ZamWeazle]

Aaaarrgh!! 😬 I'm just over halfway with Valor....just...not..quite ready...for...this..amazing collab discussion just yet!! 🤪 Oh yeaaa Alex joined the party too! 😊 Can't wait! 👍👍

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

We’ll be waiting when you finish!

[@ZamWeazle]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh don't stop on my behalf! 😂

[@mmurphy3608]

Great group! Great discussion! Great book! Love this series. Just started Ruin and can’t wait to get back to it:)

[@JJ_Hunter]

Great discussion, really enjoyed hearing everyone opinions. I can’t wait to see how you all feel after book 3 (imo the best book in the series, which also has one of my all time favourite scene in a book period). I won’t tell you which character it involved , as I wouldn’t want anyone going into the book with a presumption in mind. For those that have read the third book, 2 for ... 1 for ... powerful stuff.

[@lucianaetrigan]

Ruin definitely the best of the series! I was just blown away by a certain conversation between two main carácteres...

[@JessieMaeBooks]

ALLEN LIKES THE ROMANCES?! 😍 this just made my day haha I couldn’t agree more with everything you all said!

[@JessieMaeBooks]

Veradis is my favorite, too, Allen!!!!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

The most shocking revelation in our discussion!

[@AbbySalter]

I was so shocked! highlight of my weekend to hear Allen say that he like the romance

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

hahaha yes! I thought they were super sweet!

[@BigPapaBo69]

Ok, 2nd video in, I am convinced. Philip, guy in the top, right, absolutely is listening to these books, not reading. That’s not a bad thing at all, but it’s definitely true. I’m also listening to them, and every pronunciation he has, is the exact same in the audiobook. I’m not sure why he won’t just say that, but that is exactly what’s happening.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Philip's never listened to an audiobook ever lol. He pronounces things the same bc he has his doctorate in Welsh and Celtic crap so he knows how it's actually pronounced, unlike the rest of us

[@AndrewsWizardlyReads]

I can’t WAIT for you to read Ruin. Sooooo good Soooooo good

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I AM EXCITE

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

41:15 - yes, I really enjoyed Fidele's chapters I loved seeing her strength as a ruler and felt sickened by what Lykos did. I loved how much she tried to fight and that one of her generals recognised she was acting completely out of character and she was able to signal someone was behind him with her eyes. But so tortuous to have no control. And yes when that smashed and she charged in. It was very empowering and satisfying - Going to jump the gun and ship Fidele and Maquin gotta love a mature romance, if not I feel they will be formidable allies together and take down Jael and Lykos. Can't wait!

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

41:29 - Alycon I really feel for and Cywen has developed a friendship with him, feeling for his pulse in cauldron chamber. I loved how he found ways to try and work round it. Getting Cywen to hide so she could eavesdrop on Calidius plans, cutting the rope and hiding her when Calidius wanted a sacrifice.

[@emilyreads5207]

Fidele’s rape is so horrifying. Rape is horrific to begin with, but then to have your body betray you because it’s controlled by someone? Lykos is truly evil. Macquin I didn’t really care much about in Malice, but this book I found myself excited to read his POV and rooting for him. The relationship between him and Orgull, Orgull giving him permission to kill him, so heartbreaking! Also, I will say I didn’t trust Fech at first. This strange bird coming along that can talk. And just to see him be such a badass- scouting things out, warning them of danger, leading them, attack Uthas. And he, too was being controlled by something because it was so sad to see him attack himself and calling himself a betrayer. Also, I thought Nathair knew he was the Black Sun and was deceiving people. It wasn’t until the final battle and his look of shock that I realized he had no clue.

[@greenjmper441]

This series is amazing, I'm sad there's only 4 books. Also, John Gwyne says 'Maquin' the same way you do Allen so points there 😉

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

YESSSSSS.

[@colburn0004]

I think I'm the only one with Allen at this point where I just really liked Veridas. He seemed so lawfully good mixed in with a lot of obvious evil that I just loved. He just seemed like a great guy who is willfully loyal, he just needs to meet more people besides Nathair.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Agreed! Veradis is just so interesting to me and I can't wait to see how his character develops.

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

29:21 - "Good reads is not safe!" 😂

[@alexfrederick3404]

Great discussion ... thanks for posting! I just loved this series, so this is fun!

[@AndrewsWizardlyReads]

These talks are making me want to break my TBR and move up the of blood and bone trilogy

[@AbbySalter]

This exact thing happened to me! I'm starting Time of Dread this week.

[@AndrewsWizardlyReads]

@@AbbySalter I would read it this week but I’m in the middle of Deadhouse Gates

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Camlin and Dath's relationship 💕 was beautifully done and Camlin's soul searching sense of purpose. They better reunite!!!!!

[@matthewbrown1151]

Just finished Valor. Great discussion all. I really thought this book kicked it up a notch. Sometimes in Malice I was getting bored just switching between Corban and Veradis. This book though, man non-stop and all the characters are great to follow. So much happening in this book.

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Thoughts on Naithair Agree him accepting he is a chosen one with a destiny easily, as opposed to Corban going "you guys are INSANE" speaks volumes, but also one is from a more humble background whereas the other has been raised to believe he is special in a privileged position as Prince, so can give him a bit of a benefit of the doubt. But Corban did not listen to the voice of Astroth and think he was Elyon, he banished him from his head pretty quickly whereas Nathair is clearly enjoying a loveky chat. Also Nathair's reaction to that awful Ant piranah invasion moment was not "quick help the child" but "I am Inspired with battle tactics" which sent warning sirens in my head of his lack of compassion. But I did enjoy his more human chat with Veradis and his look of horror inbthe cauldron chamber where the truth hit! I am intrigued to see what happens next for him! How much he tells Veradis.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Loving your thoughts!!

[@kelthanael1315]

I just finished the book and watched your talk. I didn't check yet but I hope hat you did more talks like that and will continue to do so in the future. My favorite character of the book was Orgull. Until the very end I wished he would end up differently than he did.

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Petrick is spot on about why Valour works so well. Malice I really enjoyed but as I was reading it I knew Valour was going to be amazing because Malice definitly felt like the ground work, planting the seeds. For example; Maquin I liked in Malice, but I was not so invested in him until Valour. But without being shown his clear bond with Kastell, how the Gadrir comradery worked and how much of a shit Jael is in Malice him being put through the ringer in Valour would not feel so impactful. We know what his goal is and we are cheering him on!

[@Shaad2321]

You guys should try to get John Gwynn on one of these chats! You should do it for wrath!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I think he has agreed to come on our Wrath one actually lol

[@Shaad2321]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandriaoh that would be awesome! I can’t wait for the chat! I just finished reread in the series for the fourth time!😃😃

[@turtle62785]

Surprised no one mentioned how great it was Cywen wouldn’t stop trying to murder everyone. Every time you turn around she’s reaching for a weapon. Even to the point of the giant just kind of being like “hey seriously are you gonna try and stick us again or are you gonna chill out this time”

[@giannimanzano9266]

I agree with Philip. I would love to see Fidele kill Lykos. I don't think I have ever been disturbed by a scene like the one between Lykos and Fidele. I am also impressed with Alex's and Petrik's ability to keep their poker faces on when Alan is making his predictions. I was particularly paying attention to those two seeing if I could see a reaction and they did not spoil a thing.

[@onfaerystories]

I just watched the first discussion video and this one, and I was on the fence about continuing on, but I just loved listening to your thoughts and theories, now I'm just too curious 🙈 Also, I've been spoiled - I asked for it 😅 - about an unexpected romance in the next book and I just want to see it play out (and I'm also usually not into it)! Also, Allen saying he enjoys the romance in these books, man that's good stuff! 😂👌

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

So didn't come up in the chat - Going to give a shout out to Edana - I really enjoyed her character growth in this. She has been raised a princess with a safe life. Has been abducted, seen her Mum die, watched her safe home invaded and seen her family betrayed and Dad murdered then gone on the run and been expected to lead. Like Brina later, we see her numb still grieving for her Dad and choosing Halion or Marrocks advice, but not leading. Then I think after the Wolven fight she steps up. I LOVE her in Domhain suddenly accepting the leadership of her small band of loyal companions/ family who she calls her people and says are like family. She says she wants to be on the run with them again as it was simpler than politicking, but she knows what she needs to do and does it. She does not back down against Roisin. She let Corban and gang go and get Cywen. She makes decisions based on what's best for her people and sizes up her options right at the end - I loved her decision "Camlin put an arrow through his eye". It felt truthful, girl queen coming into her - very limited power, but taking on leadership. Can't wait to see where she goes from here as she has to live with Marrocks death and Halion being left behind.

[@dwight6722]

perfect timing, just finished it!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

NICE!

[@alexfrederick3404]

I vote for "Mah-keen". I did both the real book and the audiobook, this series was so awesome. The guy performing the audiobook was great. Cywen = Cuh-when,

[@AndrewsWizardlyReads]

Love faithful and the fallen

[@X-FAct0R]

I just finished this book today so I'm finally listening to the spoiler section. I'm at the part where everyone talks about Nathair being a good person...... I'm confused, are we forgetting that he murdered his dad?

[@alexfrederick3404]

I hope you do another one of these for both Ruin and Wrath ...

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

We definitely are! Ruin will be on Abby's channel and Wrath will be on Petrik's channel!

[@dcarman686]

These books are soooo underrated

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Now starting Wrath!

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Late to the party, but I found it! - have now noted down who's channels to browse for Ruin and Wrath 👍👌

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

I also think in regards to Halion, yes he made an oath, but - can you live with yourself if you sacrifice a 10yr old? Also Rosin; is a murderer, but Lorcan is not and it says he idolises his older brother Halion. So there must be some affection there to his kid brother too, who (as Vonn pointed out) you can't help who your parents are. Also, bar bad decision hiding the book, Vonn is showing himself to be loyal to Edana having an evil Dad must be really hard.

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

😥😬 I am scared of Ruin! I am excited, but scared!

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Camlin and Maquin...... wonderful characters

[@caletate6293]

My two favorite characters actually

[@angelagualtieri5699]

Valor was great. I preferred Malice's opening to Valor's, but once I got 180 pages in, I felt the nonstop action everyone talks about for Valor. The character development was great, even the romances. I agree, Allen, about Corban. I was so surprised. Think my favorites were Cywen, Maquin, Fidele, Camlin, and Brina. Gwynne's pacing combined with the changing POVs was blended so well. It has not felt bogged down to me at all. I hate Jael and Lykos. Lykos is one of the worst characters I've read. The influences are great, and I appreciate how Gwynne has threaded them through the series. Abby's face when you said you liked the romance, Allen LOL. Gwynne handles grief really well too, and I agree with Petrik's point about how Malice is setup and Valor is action, but only because Malice lends itself to it. All the betrayals! So much good stuff in this series. You guys were all great, and this was a great discussion!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I'm 150 pages into Ruin and loving it too!

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Loving all your thoughts here. Hoping to see more of Brian recovering from her grief in Ruin.

[@dcarman686]

Lycos is a very nice man. A true gentlemen

[@Tamar-ph8ov]

The Ben allim (can’t remember the correct word) is from Hebrew which means son of gods. Many words in this book is in Hebrew. Even Cor-ban means sacrifice.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

ahhhh nice!

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

Oh no! That now scared me I adopted Corban in Malice, I am reading for my book baby now!

[@vishalphatak8268]

I hated Lykos and Jael so much but I actually really liked Calidus and Rhin, damn great villains

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

7:33 Lol I am also Ma-quin - I am a phonetic pronouncer sorry linguists! Yes also love the same story thread of battle but coming from several POV's. Really engaging

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

It's totally Gemmell inspired

[@dcarman686]

Do you think a 40 episode series on HBO would work for the Faithful and Fallen? If done correctly I believe it would be massive.

[@bryson2662]

I do not think this prose style is much like Sanderson's at all. I think it's very quick, Germanic, raw, and respects the reader

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

😂😂😂😂 I hope John Gwynne watches this! I also really hope there is no need for Allen's strongly worded letters re:Jael

[@jackmckenzie926]

My favorites were the side characters Marrock, Halion, Connel and Tahair. And Nathair is a bad person no matter how shocked he was to find out. He let himself be manipulated into killing his own father. A good person would never have done that.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Accurate...poor dumb Nathair. I love Halion though.

[@colburn0004]

Malice was good, but a bit cliche. Valor and the rest of the series absolutely blew me away though. The characters and how they evolve is just stellar. This was really great.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I love seeing how these characters are developing and I love me some war.

[@Lezzyboy87]

Do you mean valour?

[@robpaul7544]

Well, this is just one of those books and series that I really can't find your enthusiasm and love for. I might still read along with you until the end - I already bought the books after all 😅 But most of the characters spark no interest what soever in me. Most of them seem to have very little free will or agency, it's all reactionary stuff. The action scenes seem pretty bland, and hundreds or thousands of enemy soldiers in an army seem to vanish when convenient for the plot. Like at the assault on Murias where Nathair has thousands of soldiers, yet Corban's warband just slips through and arrives just in time for the climactic battle? Nope. It's not terrible, but a very middle of the road fantasy series for me.. Still, glad you guys are having a great time, and was fun listening to you all 😆

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

I completely understand why someone wouldn't love this series, even though it strikes a bunch of right cords with me. I'm more okay with letting things like their infiltration slide, I think; I'm along for the ride. I'm glad you're still engaging in our collabs though!

[@ZamWeazle]

For me i feel the opposite! This is already far more engaging than 90% of fantasy series that I've read in years. Different strokes for different folks! 🤷‍♂️👍

[@robpaul7544]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria Couple of my favorite booklovers talking about books they love? Wouldn't wanna miss it 😆 @Zam weazle Indeed! More love for books is always good, cause it leads to more books 😉

[@dcarman686]

Love the dude on the top right with glasses. He brings. His counterpart on the left should get a baby sitter. Child is cute but not appropriate for this discussion.

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Or a heard of large cattle! Sans Chisum

[@demidrek-heyward]

plz can them camp and not get attacked

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Hahahahaha YES

[@Yuuppppp]

The grappling hook needs to be patched lol

[@EpicTalez]

SPOILER COMMENT************************* If you loved the book and are sensitive about it do not read on. . . . . . . . . . . . I didn't like the character work at all. The archetypes were soooooo tropy and sterotypical. I thought the was more fighting than story. The character work I can blame on the short chapters. Very little was established in a chapter in terms of character work. I guess cummulativly maybe but the tropy nature of the characters really didn't do it for me. Corban being able to fight the Karishim (I probably butchered) more competently than the G'har who had trained their whole life didn't sit right with me. Some of the characters didn't need names. Villager 1 and villager 2 would have been fine. I really liked the female characters but I had some issues with it. For example, If Corealens (Probably butchered) perspective was completly removed, it wouldn't have affected the story at all. They are some other POVs like that. Some of the female characters just felt like token characters. *** There have your female characters*** Kind of way. To be more positive, Maquin was my favourite character. He was dope. I hated Lycos so much! Great discussion!

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Grappling hook as a weapon......poo!

[@thecontradictorian2225]

Wtf Allen, of all romances, you decided to like THIS romance? What is wrong with you, hahaha.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Hahahahahah ITS CUTE KLAUS

[@ChattieTheMadChatter]

😂