Ubuntu Server is Perfect for a Minimal "Window Manager" Installation

[@IsmaelLa]

And I used Diet-Pi for a minimal install like this not long ago. This is a very great way to still have a minimal installation with the original ubuntu server install media. Great to have options! Thanks DT!

[@nefrace]

I really like how you always mention your "Strong and complicated password"! I would never guess what it can be :D

[@malikrimzan5765]

If you're reading this, then I hope you have a great day, my friend 😀

[@DistroTube]

You too!

[@itildude]

I just did this with Opensuse. Their installer has a minimal graphical environment option - it just puts IceWM on so there is something. Installed Qtile from there and good to go! The nice thing with this is it is still geared toward desktop use so you get a start with a lot of what you need for desktop basics instead of the server versions of distros.

[@aloneer0529]

Same!

[@wrathofsocrus]

"Are you an Ubuntu user?" Yes I am, and I greatly appreciate your efforts!

[@JonathonFailsAtLife]

I used to run Ubuntu Server 14.04 with i3 and VNC for my security camera server in my previous residence. It would run headless, but I could plug in a monitor to the physical server or VNC in and i3 would open all 4 cameras feeds in MPV on start.

[@jesse7631]

This is such a brilliant idea, Derek - I am going to do this. Thanks for the walkthrough, it was very enlightening!

[@davidrichardson2513]

Great! Never thought of this idea, certainly one worth considering. Thanks for sharing the concept.

[@lwa.dev74]

Awesome DT.. didn’t know Ubuntu server could be manipulated this was👨🏽‍💻❤️

[@alx8439]

If you want a real minimum distro, check Alpine :) with gnome running in it, it takes like 500 Mb of ram without all the systemd and inflated kernel modules bloat. What I love about Linux is that you are actually able to slim down your system without switching the distro to whatever small footprint you need, as long as you're happy to pay the price of throwing off pieces. Don't need NTFS or ext2 support in a kernel? Throw that away and save some x0 megs of ram. Don't want to spend another x0 megs of ram for Ubuntu hinting you what kind of package provides the command you just typed (but resulted with "command not found" and a suggestion) - throw that deamon away.

[@nazgulsenpai]

Alpine is great, but Void ended up being where I felt most at home. It has a similar systemd story with runit, and goes from UEFI to lxdm in 3 seconds. Plus there's something so awesome about starting from the foundation and building up to your perfect OS.

[@grubbermeister]

That, and can go even lighter on ram if one wants to: XFCE - 110-150mb, Openbox (with xwallpaper) - 70-90mb. These were the ram figures I've pulled on my ancient Toshiba Satellite. Love Alpine!

[@forsee2328]

imo if you are already chose to use something kinda heavy like gnome or kde, all this 'additional bloat' coming with default desktop ubuntu probably won't make that much of a difference. gnome itself has a dozen of depencencies, and probably a ton of unused functionality never used heavy de though, 500mb sounds really nice, less than mine i3 based system (with a browser in auto exec and a bunch of daemons though)

[@ArniesTech]

Just yesterday I installed Ubuntu 22.04LTS Server on my BeeLink U59 Pro for this week's review video. 💪😁

[@IanHaver]

excellent stuff DT

[@AtRiskMedia]

Why not Debian testing and install on top of that? (I've never been a Ubuntu fan)

[@TurntableTV]

You can take the same approach with Debian netinst image.

[@sharkuel]

This is the way

[@lua-nya]

Which will by the way install less unrequested stuff.

[@jesse7631]

I would go for any Debian install that leaves out the 38 games plopped into the default image.

[@ipshitshaha7244]

I would love to see more content on IceWM.

[@jesse7631]

Yeah, unfortunately there is no option for building a time machine and traveling back to 1998.

[@folksurvival]

@@jesse7631 KZbin didn't exist in 1998 so that's irrelevant.

[@darthkielbasa]

Thank you sir. A similar setup process for a barebones fedora install would be righteous.

[@marioschroers7318]

I'm still working on my Gentoo stuff (new machine is finally here, not yet set up), and I've been thinking about switching from Qtile to dwm along the way. Also found there's a new version of st (0.9), call for patching again, I suppose.

[@alexandrosvangelatos9979]

Greetings from 🇿🇲 I tried this before. I couldn't install xorg without gnome. I didn't see that in your apt output. Cool to see they fixed that.

[@Oswee]

I did the same quite some time ago with Fedora server. No issues at all.

[@LevKozlodoev]

Thank you. Ubuntu Server LTS is definitely my #1 choice now.

[@huljaxful]

Great video. Really nice walkthrough and great subject...

[@peter-v4e4t]

I haven't fully made the transition to Linux yet, (there are some programs I need that are only available on Windows), but I did use Ubuntu server for a bit. I tried to switch over to Debian but I alway encountered installation issues. So when I return to Linux, Ubuntu server will be a great start for me.

[@ArniesTech]

If you plan on using Linux as a Desktop, I would go straight with a desktop Version like Ubuntu 22.04LTS. This Server-First method is rather for tinkering and having a bit of fun.

[@lifewithalistair.]

You don't have to choose between windows or Linux. If your proprietary software requires windows, then continue using windows for those programs, and for all the free alternatives you can use Linux. You don't have to limit yourself to one or the other. I continue to use both, and find both of them to be useful.

[@sillyness3456]

IceWM brings back 1998.

[@skelebro9999]

I'm still waiting for a video on Nobara Linux and Vanilla OS. Both of them are awesome.

[@GiorgioBeltrammi]

Very very very useful! Thanks a lot

[@kinda_crazy_art2733]

No shade, but the ending comments of the video after the credits roll are almost always the best part of the video

[@epicgamerman420]

very interesting idea, most people would be against ubuntu for any minimal install but you show that it's possible (although controversial and unpopular)

[@ArniesTech]

Works great. I run a little machine with Ubuntu 22.04LTS Server and XFCE on top of it 😁

[@folksurvival]

The former youtuber 'Terminalforlife' used to use a minimal Ubuntu with i3and spoke highly of it. He deleted his channel though.

[@DarkGladiator]

@@folksurvival do you know why he did?

[@Smiles4Kids]

good video I followed you step by step on my ubuntu server installation... thank you

[@Codename1Alice8]

Greetings from germany.

[@peterschmidt9942]

It's all very interesting DT. I don't think I'm quite up to this level just yet, but interesting none the less. The windows manager you used looks very Windows 3.1 😂. But I suppose it gets the job done. Buts it's good to know how you go about installing stuff on top of minimal installs. Something I might play around with on a second laptop. It would be great to see a video on how to change the operating system of a commercial NAS to a Linux Server/NAS instead of their propitiatory OS and what's recommended to install along with it so it's functional (like a QNAP or Synology).

[@DistroTube]

>The windows manager you used looks very Windows 3.1 More Windows 98 than 3.1.

[@peterschmidt9942]

@@DistroTube True, still reminded me of older windows. All good.

[@mhpreach]

Great video.I’ve been wanting to put a minimal desktop on my web server. To get a file manager. What would you suggest for a production server? About10 years ago I thought of replacing my every day computer system for work with a Linux distro at the time there were several programs I use I could find good alternatives to what I use on my Mac-mini. What programs do you suggest for Desktop publishing, text styling I use Art text on the Mac to give you what I’m referring to? Any ideas appreciated. Great KZbin channel!

[@diveallz1044]

omfffgggg yessss thank you man.

[@lpanebr]

Really useful. Thank you!

[@RukshanVidurangaPerera]

Wow this is great.

[@miyolinux]

Nobody smacks the crap out of a keyboard harder than this guy...

[@DeanThomas-u7n]

my server keeps say unable to locate package, it is doing for most packages

[@mhpreach]

Question. What program do you use to record videos using Linux. Also what program do you use for editing? I current use a Mac for mine but would love to move to Linux.

[@texodus_et6313]

Hey DT, What are your thoughts on mastodon?

[@tristen_grant]

He has a few videos on Mastodon.

[@texodus_et6313]

@@tristen_grant Cool. Will definitely check em out. Thanks.

[@AshNonokPlays]

How do I install Lumina desktop? I've always love the Lumina Desktop ever since I use it during the time I tested PCBSD since 2018 to 2019

[@laurentiucalonfir]

7:32 "sudo pacman" ? :D

[@linuxtutorialshindi8582]

Those dev dependencies are generally dont come with regular desktop install either. They are *-dev packages containing headers file which are used by the program we are compiling from source. :)

[@simonphillips2851]

Please could you show an install of QTile on a Ubuntu server base, I have tried and failed many times. Thanks for tip on installing wm first instead of X11

[@genkiferal7178]

I am trying a minimal install of both Fluxbox and ICeWM and in both, my Logitech keyboard and mouse have stopped working. In both, I can see the seconds on the panel's clock ticking away - so I don't think the WM is to blame. What package am I missing? I know there is a package just for Logitech, but I've never needed in Linux and have used many, many distros and VMs. I think this is minimal install related.

[@philyang9548]

Thanks a lot, it's awesome to have GUI on my ubuntu server! I am pretty new to Linux and ubuntu, followed the steps and got it working. Is there any way to quit the window manager and back to command line please? A shortcut maybe?

[@send2gl]

I do similar on a Raspberry Pi headless setup. Starts in terminal mode. I then use the following: sudo systemctl start lightdm.service (Obviously my WM is lightdm) sudo systemctl start vncserver-x11-serviced.service (for VNC access) Substitute STOP for START in systemctl command for returning to command prompt.

[@robbobstone]

Can you do a video on Axyl Linux? I watched your videos for window managers and after trying to install different managers that all failed I found Axyl and it changed the game for me

[@toranshaw4029]

Might have to give this a go, one of these days. 👍

[@obsoletepowercorrupts]

It's somewhat like installing a desktop on OpenBSD even though some might question of one "should do" that. That other example has a tendency to be for deciduous use cases rather than "daily driver proper". Sometimes people test these things and say (on some article) _"I used OpenBSD with a desktop as my daily driver for a month"_ but really, that is a deciduous use case scenario taking a specific and casting it as a general. These milkteeth desktops and shells are a hackish thing to do and not with out its use cases usually for trying something out for a server with the intention of undoing it all and going back to a headless server after te fact once whatever has been learned invented solved or discovered has come to light, reverting the server back to its evergreen status. Akin to adding a window manager, this milktoothing of server shells and desktops is a cultural tinkerer thing that comes from the PC Master Race gamers. Sure, people like to buy a whole desktop solution as gaming box, but they also like to tinker and build their own PC _(and I'm talking Microsoft Window primarily here)_ or at the very least, buy a prebuild and then customise it wih a different PC or perhaps a different sound card solution or other expansion card. When people say Microsoft Windows is held up by gaming, that is actually an anti-console-peasant and pro-PC-Master-Race culture because it comes form tinkerers either making a PC from scratch or customising a pre-build. It isn't that Microsoft don't have gaming, because of course they do with XBox. Still though even then don't be surprised if somebody has both a PC and an XBox in their house (e.g. family members) across which they use the XBox Pass. The pre-builds are worth it in terms of compared pricing. Nonetheless though, unless they're planning to shift it on the used market, a person who buys a system (maybe an Alienware) knows fine that the moment the warranty expires on that thing, they're going to pop the hood and stick a different GPU in it or whatever, and it is those guys who then consider Linux and then they start milktoothing a server OS wih shells and stacks (like a Bluetooth gaming headset and controllers or whatnot) to acroprop up a desktop environment, even though you're really meant to do that. It makes DDR5 registered RAM unlocking an interesting niche use case. The attractino of Ubuntu is buying a small suite of PCs on a bunch of PCs so that you get linux na don't need to tinker with one thing and so you can then tinker with that one other thing instead you got Linux for. Coolvideo btw. My comment has no hate in it and I do no harm. I am not appalled or afraid, boasting or envying or complaining... Just saying. Psalms23: Giving thanks and praise to the Lord and peace and love. Also, I'd say Matthew6.

[@reveninja5252]

such a shame you didnt show us your ram usage after running the startx.... I am running a window manager on a debian standard and I was curious if ubuntu server can go as low as 200-300 MBs...

[@edbeckerich3737]

Linux is an adventure, and DT is our DM..

[@mitch_the_-itch]

Is there an easy way to test all the many windows managers?

[@blakkheim]

ubuntu server is not nearly as minimal as you describe. there's a "mini.iso" installer that's about the smallest ubuntu you can get. (even then, it still includes junk like ntfs-3g and others)

[@doooofus]

at least you start off with just a tty though on ubuntu server and none of this login manager desktop environment bloat malarky

[@Pevi70]

As an inexperienced linux user, I was wondering how such an installation would compare to a regular ubuntu installation with regard to storage and RAM usage?

[@galladite4924]

If you install everything that's on normal ubuntu, it'd be the same but since window managers are generally much more lightweight and nothing unnecessary is installed, it will probably be much less. Expect maybe 100MB ram usage after install, and a few hundred with X11 running.

[@Pevi70]

@@galladite4924 Thank you!

[@electricalstuff259]

Hey DT! At what age did your hair fall out?

[@HelmutFischer-thehefi]

Fine idea, thx!

[@13thravenpurple94]

Great video Thank you

[@MattMcCullough]

I installed LXDE which uses OpenBox

[@muddyexport5639]

Thanks!

[@YannMetalhead]

Good video.

[@tylerdean980]

The beauty of icewm is that you don’t need separate programs for wallpaper or run launcher or anything, it can do it all out of the box. Even menumaker is unnecessary, icewm can build menus on its own

[@rishirajsaikia1323]

What is better, openbox, icewm, fluxbox or jwm ?

[@lua-nya]

@@rishirajsaikia1323 Are you trying to start a flame war or decide what to try out next? They have big differences, opinion and requirements being the big factors here.

[@lua-nya]

Say for instance you are used to floating windows with a window list and want to try out something that you just install along with a few graphical applications to get a lightweight environment. IceWM brings an easy way to get that.

[@tylerdean980]

@@0xDEAD-C0DE it doesn’t get more irrelevant than “irrelevant comment”.

[@tylerdean980]

@@rishirajsaikia1323 I haven’t tried all of them, open box seems to be the most popular. I like icewm quite a lot.

[@lucacagnolati5530]

Thank you so much

[@electricalstuff259]

How is that not just a desktop environment? It has everything a desktop environment has, no?

[@tralphstreet]

Meh. Just install the server with no GUI, and log in via ssh to control it. I can't think of any task that I'd want to do on a server where a GUI would be better (or substantially better). If you need to search documentation, do so via your main PC. If you really want a graphical file manager or something just use sshfs.

[@electricalstuff259]

I genuinely don't understand how this isn't just a desktop environment. It has the desktop, taskbar, programs pane. Looks, behaves and seems like a desktop environment to me.

[@tralphstreet]

@@electricalstuff259 It does consume way less system resources than something like GNOME or KDE. IceWM is VERY lightweight, consuming about 70 or 90 MB. But other than that? I wouldn't install a GUI on a server still.

[@electricalstuff259]

@@tralphstreet Then in my opinion it's just a lightweight desktop environment. It's got taskbars, systray stuff, launcher menus. To me a windows manager is something like i3

[@tralphstreet]

@@electricalstuff259 A Window Manager is a program that manages windows. That's literally it. Even i3 has stuff that's not part of a Window Manager, like a bar. IceWM is still a Window Manager. It manages windows, it simply comes with some other stuff like a bar, which is not even uncommon for WMs. The main difference is that it's a stacking WM, whereas i3 is tiling. But it's still a WM. What makes KDE a Desktop Environment for instance is that it's an entire suite of applications. It comes with it's own Display Manager, Window Manager, taskbar, widgets, file browser, battery management, network management, settings panel, task manager, and a bunch of other tools. IceWM doesn't have any of this, it's just a WM with a bar.

[@AbdullahALSHRIQI]

Good idea

[@haquire]

But why?

[@tylerdean980]

Easier maintenance and smaller footprint. It’s much easier to troubleshoot a system when you were the one that put all the pieces in place

[@rishirajsaikia1323]

What floating window manager is better, openbox, icewm, fluxbox or jwm ?

[@galladite4924]

dwm ;) but out of those options, I might choose openbox

[@adolforosado]

I prefer Debian. Ubuntu is getting moody and temperamental...

[@ArniesTech]

Sounds interesting. Would you specify that? 🙏

[@adolforosado]

@@ArniesTech I use LMDE5 "Elsie" fully working OS based on Debian instead of Ubuntu kernel.

[@kemo_-ks6pk]

Debian packages are laughably old

[@adolforosado]

So am I kid. So am I.@@kemo_-ks6pk

[@Narblo]

I will never come back to ubuntu. Tho I experienced with ubuntu and debian before for the minimal desktop approach, arch was a lot better experience for it.

[@Maik.iptoux]

debian-netinst-iso :-D

[@0xyznx]

Not fan of WM. Ubuntu Server / Debian Testing / Arch + "minimum" GNOME works great for me.

[@windowsxpprofessional6231]

what happened to "ubuntu is bad canonical is the devil"

[@linuxrant]

From what I experienced debian is better performing than ubuntu. Speed, cpu, ram usage. Other than some not crucially important updates and ppas I see no reason not to go full minimal debian. When I recently installed it everything is running like forest gump, and I can run basically everything, maybe without the newest kvantum(but it is still available). If you wanna a minimal distro to build your gui from the bottom up, why not debian? Because I can objectively measure the benefits in hundreds of megabytes... Or am I missing something?

[@sofiaknyazeva]

Debian usually ships with older version of packages in their repo. I don't want to bother with their unstable repo or backports, and Ubuntu stays in between old and new which makes it a perfect choice. Use what works best for you.

[@itsfish8672]

GVDT.

[@dxmajrd]

So 'English' now Defaults to American English, and if you want actual English you have to choose 'English (UK)'... no appropriation here, nothing to see or say!

[@folksurvival]

Well it makes sense to default to the far larger audience. There's probably 5+ times more American English speakers than English English speakers.

[@tylerdean980]

The irony is that from a linguistic standpoint American English is closer to old English than the British English.

[@lifewithalistair.]

@@tylerdean980 not really, as they don't spell colour the correct way.

[@jesse7631]

@@lifewithalistair. yeah, because extra 'U's everywhere makes it all correct. Give me a break.

[@Smittron]

Thank you Noah Webster for helping to standardize American English.

[@ramtin3760]

This video is extremely disappointing as it does not cover basic configurations needed to turn server edition to a usable desktop version, such as: • switching from network.d to NetworkManager • clearing extra output on terminal after running commands • Unminifing and restoring man pages • Hiding GRUB menu • Failing to explain installation options such as LVM group or a disk partitioning similar to desktop version • Installing PipeWire/Pulse/Alsa These are the problems I had and fix most of them, but at the end due to some of them remaining unresolved switch to a Debian base

[@Ghfvhvfg]

Gui tools are bloat how elitist.

[@killistan]

I'd want to make sure I was running a desktop kernel. Server kernels tend to be configured for higher throughput at the expense of higher latency. Mostly, opening programs and menus can seem a little more sluggish with a server kernel. (But compile times might be a few hundred milliseconds faster). I don't specifically know how Ubuntu's server kernel is configured, though.

[@alx8439]

Well it's pretty easy to get that to know, rather than guessing. Check kernel versions of any destktop edition vs server one, then check the output of lsmod and sysctl -a. It's actually a good thing to check

[@killistan]

​@@alx8439 It's all compile time differences: multicore scheduler, timer frequency, preemption model... (there might be a /proc/config.gz to grep through).

[@alx8439]

@@killistan i think distros are following the same good rule that if you've compiled a kernel with different params, it will get a different addition or a prefix at the end of the version string

[@killistan]

@@alx8439 Yeah it should be as simple as installing the desktop kernel and updating the grub config (or maybe even just uninstalling the server kernel?).