Dither or Die - Astrophotography 101 & News

[@eliassosa9530]

lol this is such an underrated channel. Quality stuff every time

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks man. Best compliment ever.

[@zubinix]

Totally agree. Well done Dylan on another great video.

[@zubinix]

But sorry I subscribed to T-Series not the other guy 😁

[@DylanODonnell]

Haha thanks Zubes!

[@canaanjeffrey4076]

instablaster...

[@OliverBerresford]

Learning lots of useful tips from your channel and also loving the background serenity. Having just bought my first Eq mount I can see this will be a good hobby to slowly lose all my money.

[@neilcreek]

Great video Dylan! You should consider following up with a part 2 discussing drizzle integration which you can do with dithered images to get higher resolution.

[@DylanODonnell]

You read my mind Neil! Was going to do drizzle today then realised I should do dither first :)

[@The_Cokester]

You should do an explanation on. ADU and why mean readout should be in the 400-1500 range and what that means for gain and exposure time. There are a lot of people who try to explain this but I believe you can do it much more effectively. Good video btw!

[@DylanODonnell]

Great suggestion - thank you!

[@book3100]

I'm getting there. Got a camera. Now I need a tracking mount, laptop, guidescope and camera. The camera sort of dictates I use Backyard EOS, I'll be using PHD2 to guide and dither. So a ways to go yet.

[@stay_at_home_astronaut]

Ha! My mount is so wobbly that it does the dithering for you!

[@Wolfie6020]

Thanks Dylan, I learn something new with every video you post.

[@DylanODonnell]

Good to hear! Thanks!

[@Prsn1940]

Love the t-shirt. Good to see astrophotographers interested in biotech & gmo!

[@DylanODonnell]

Spreading the good word :)

[@astrofckups4305]

My biggest regret as an astrophotographer is that I didn't watch this video until months after I first started getting walking noise after switching to a dedicated astro cam. A must watch for anyone beginning astrophotography! Also your plate solving video - I'm in Australia too and I swear polar aligning using a polar scope for us IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE with light pollution haha. Polar aligning with plate solving is just beautifully genius.

[@BuzzLightyear9999]

“How’s the serenity...?” Pissed myself! That’s going straight to the pool room...!

[@DylanODonnell]

Buzz Lightyear hehe classic straya :)

[@scalemodelenthusiast1633]

I see the hand controler is connected to the PC but how is your mount connected. Im guessing you are running a USB cable from your mount to the HUB as well?

[@f.k.6151]

Great video, thanks. Can I get a confirmation that dithering is needed to isolate bad pixels and noise?

[@rosevan5485]

Hey Dylan. Thank you for explaining dithering in simple terms... never quite understood exactly what my scope did... but I’m a newbie. Also truly appreciate that you include SGPro in your videos because it’s quite daunting as a program but amazing . You crack me up with your humour and your freshness in this field of astrophotography... keep up your good work and thanks for your explanations.... I still got to contend with 4 ft of snow here in Quebec and -20 degrees Celsius temperatures before dreaming of putting out my gear... Because of that my learning curve is quite long. Cheers ! And yeah we’re all gonna die ....

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks Rosevan! SGP is a daunting spaceship (like PixInsight) but well worth setting up. Took me days and days to get everything configured right!

[@rosevan5485]

Dylan O'Donnell . Hey ! Thanks for answering Dylan.... I also wanted to add that I use PixInsight too.... and that is even more of a monster to tame and understand ...but well worth the effort... amazing program ... So please , when you can.... explain and talk about SGPro and PixInsight too ! PS . I need the help of Dr.Zen to blow up my Neumann U87 condenser microphone.... ;-)

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe yeh I need to bribe Dr Zen to do some more videos. We've been making rocket fuel lately and getting ourselves onto some government watch lists 😆 I have an intro to PI video which is a bit old but ok, but the M42 "behind the image" workflow goes in a bit better I think .. and the darks calibration video .. I'm trying to do everything in bite-sized chunks !

[@rosevan5485]

Dylan O'Donnell Yep... The governments of the world are after Dr.Zen and his knowledge! Keep him safe ! For the sake of all of us ! Take your time. Appreciate immensely those videos ! Cheers .

[@montewestlund8195]

So to be sure, the usb from computer to hand controller is the Ascom connection, right? Was hoping to see how you were doing it.

[@RaysAstrophotography]

Hi Dylan, you got a good story telling skill. I like how you summarized it pretty quickly!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks Ray! I think getting to the point quickly is good for KZbin viewers even if the algorithm actually rewards watch time. :)

[@RaysAstrophotography]

@@DylanODonnell Thanks for the tip. Completely agree!

[@DonGoddardAllAboutPaint]

Seriously enjoying your videos and your candid style. Keep it up!

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks Don :)

[@92545989]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge humbly and in a funny way ... continue like this and don´t ever die..greetings from Patagonia Chile

[@DylanODonnell]

Haha thanks man :) can’t make any promises on not dying however.

[@VincentGroenewold]

“I just need a few adapters”. Ain’t that the meaning of life as an astrophotographer. For just a qazillion dollars a piece. ;)

[@DylanODonnell]

Take photos of space they said ... 😆

[@jaspalchadha1041]

If you dither, do you have to do anything particular with your flats? Or just normal stuff

[@STLS]

Hi Dylan, Great channel... I wanted to tell you I noticed you have Babak Sedehis NexDome. I too have one for SkyTour LiveStream. But the motion of the dome is not consistent and cannot be relied upon for remote operation as we have two remote observatories, one in CT in the USA and one going in next month in the Arizona desert under a beautiful sky. We cant use the NexDome out there because the shutters are temperamental. Babak has sent me 3 sets of shutters over the last two years because wind has ripped them from the dome. Then he came out with a system to lock the shutters down and this worked in 55-60 mile per hour winds (around 96kmh) so I was excited... BUT its winter now and those hold downs contract and cause binding in the dome. So the NexDome is still in product development as far as I can see. Babak is a great guy and sent the shutters free of charge so I know he wants a good product. I have been trying to help him where I can, for instance with the thump thump thump as the dome turns and drops into the small hollow between dome panels. My solution works great but its extra pieces to install on the dome when its completed, level and ready to go. I subbed to your channel and maybe you can check us out at SkyTour LiveStream here on YT as well... We will soon have SkyTour West joining SkyTour East in just a couple months. We are using LX600 telescopes initially but the Arizona location will have two piers with one for an eventual astrograph. The most important item is that we will be making a roll off roof for the AZ site. It will be more reliable than the NexDome at this point. I support Babak and NexDome however and happy to see you have one! You are doing a nice job keep it up! Marc Dantonio

[@dankahraman354]

Dylan do you have a systematic approach to determining dither levels, dither scale and settling time?

[@ing.riccoskombar]

I have a Canon eos 2000d which cable do i need to control the camera via nebulosity / sequence generator pro or APT ? Do you have a link for cable i could buy. Nobody is showing the cable setup for the dslr

[@sjgonline]

Thanks for the video Dylan! Question: Is Dithering best for CMOS or will CCD sensors benefit from it? I never dithered my CCD but it's clear that the DSLR and my ASI071MC-Pro need it. Thx!

[@DylanODonnell]

Definitely good for all! CCD in particular though.

[@stekovi]

Hello Dylan, I use PHD for guiding but don't use a DSLR instead of a Astrocam. Is there a way to set PHD to dither still or would I have to manually move the scope with the controller after every photo and do PHD guiding each time

[@DylanODonnell]

You still need some coordination between the capture software and PHD.. if you are using a DSLR try some of the tethered capture solutions like SGP or Backyard EOS. They cost a little but it's worth it.

[@scalemodelenthusiast1633]

If I have the WiFi module for my mount, can I use it to control the mount through PHD2? EQ6-R Pro

[@samuelbonnett]

If you aren't guiding, only tracking with a lens, is it worth dithering?

[@DylanODonnell]

Yes :)

[@mode1charlie170]

Thanks Dylan, another informative video. Just a quick question. PHD2 can dither also however If i enable server in PHD2 then the acquisition software ( in my case the sky x) will control dither? Is this correct.

[@DylanODonnell]

That’s correct as I understand it! The acquisition software knows when you are taking a photo or not so it sends the dither command to PhD between exposures.

[@mode1charlie170]

Thanks Dylan that makes sense!

[@prima946]

Hi Dylan. If I link PHD to Nebulosity and use the dither option I assume I should use Nebulosity to control my camera instead of a remote? I am using a Canon 1200D. I would also like to ask advice with Nebulosity. The current method I use for alignment which I saw in a video from Astronomyshed is to first save each file(with translation and rotation) and once that is done align saving the stack. My tracking was weak so that was the way to go,but now that I have guiding there is no more major variation in images. Is there a quicker way to do alignment and stacking in Nebulosity?

[@DylanODonnell]

That’s right your software needs to control the shutter in order when to know when to do the dither. I have a feeling backyard Eos might help?

[@DylanODonnell]

I don’t think Neb does auto alignment / registration .. it’s a pain I know! I only use it when I’m doing stuff with a foreground.

[@prima946]

Thank you Dylan

[@will2see]

omg Dylan! Monsanto T-shirt!

[@LAshotts]

Wow big news for the ASCOM platform. Great stuff Dylan.

[@DylanODonnell]

I know right!

[@damienf4581]

Hi Dylan - lov'in your videos. In a similar vein to dithering and effect on final image - could you explain under and oversampling and what they actually mean to both guiding and image capture. Chuck's recent video was on this but he didn't go into what it actually means at the coal-face. Does it even matter at all unless you're going to crop the hell or print off an enlarged version, basically magnifying pixels in the final images and how does under/over sampling affect guiding accuracy in any particular combination of guide-scope and camera? More questions than answers!

[@DylanODonnell]

Great questions! I'll put something together for a future video!

[@Broccoli_32]

How much of a temperature difference is too much between your darks and lights. It’s dropped about 7 degrees Celsius outside since I’ve taken my darks should I retake them or do you think they’ll be fine?

[@DylanODonnell]

If your camera has cooling always set it to the same temperature every time.. then it doesn't matter what the ambient temperature is :)

[@alexandrusimandi1699]

jokes on you, my eq2 mount does dithering on his own, the built-in wobble is fantastic!

[@DylanODonnell]

Hahaha

[@billlong7146]

Another great video, Dylan. First question is -- is that a Gibson Acoustic? If so, please dont scare me by wielding metal objects in front of it! :) Dithering is really important, and its great you made a video about this. With traditional CCD cameras, dithering does not need to be done every single frame. With modern CMOS cameras, which have a lot of Fixed Position Noise (FPN) present in the sensors, dithering becomes much more important. The cool tradeoff though, is that modern CMOS cameras download frames much faster than the old guard (CCD) does -- so dithering more frequently is completely acceptable in terms of raw overhead. One more thing to offer here, is that dithering will not remove read-out noise. In fact, you cannot remove read-out noise at all. What you can do is swamp it. You do this with exposure time, and stacking frames. I wrote a fun little utility, that folks can use to determine the best place to swamp read noise. You can find the code here: github.com/hawkndawgs/mindncalc/blob/master/mindncalc.c Note the appropriation I gave to the person that came up with the formula for this. It was not me. Anyhow, I subscribed to this channel. I think you are doing some cool stuff informing people. Sorry if I come off as corrective, this hobby is massively hard for most to get their head around, so I am really just trying to be helpful and share some of the things I have learned on the journey.

[@DylanODonnell]

Gibson epiphany masterbilt (amazing) and Gibson les Paul :) and thanks for all the extra info and corrections ! I appreciate it immensely.. I’m no expert just an enthusiastic beginner!

[@billlong7146]

@@DylanODonnell Awesome guitars. :)

[@moviebuff2k24]

Awesome, Thank you for sharing, Hope to see more in coming days.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks.. I’ll try!

[@superIuminaI]

What are your thoughts on the new Redcat 51? Isn't a DSLR prime better?

[@DylanODonnell]

No experience at all. Look’s nice from trevs video!

[@chunkylover108]

Would there be any benefit from creating a dither of the dark frame so you remove the dithered result rather than point hot pixels or noise?

[@DylanODonnell]

Nup.. for darks the lens cap is essentially on. You could twirl the camera around your head if you wanted to and it wouldn't make a difference :)

[@danielmills2992]

thank you for the great video! one question, if i use an intervelometer for my dslr imaging will the dither process interrupt the delay time between shots that ive set on the intervelometer?

[@wanderingquestions7501]

Very useful Astro Channel - thanks

[@DylanODonnell]

I'm glad you like it.. thanks!

[@ImShi7AtGolf]

Great video mate thanks for making it so much simpler to understand. Can I ask please if you can do a video on impacts of dithering (when using a new style CMOS one shot colour camera) on the need for calibration frames? I ask as Googling gives about 1,000 different opinions. Personally im getting better results without darks or bias or flats or dark flats! Thanks for all your hard work man, just brilliant stuff. :)

[@judd_s5643]

Excellent video Dylan! Thank you!

[@DylanODonnell]

No worries Judd!

[@supernova5712]

Upvote if you want Dylan to host meme review

[@DylanODonnell]

👏 👏

[@CodeLeeCarter]

meme? Bloody hell, are they still alive and kicking?... I used to play with Meme's then I grew-up.

[@samk2630]

I saw this in APT and was wondering. Thanks for sharing, will definitely play around with this next sesssion.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hope it works for you!

[@2headedsnail]

Great video thank you so much I had no idea I'm going to try that on my next clear night

[@DylanODonnell]

No worries! Super easy once you know!

[@joep1551]

Agreed, very underrated. Your videos are very technical and informative, yet easy to understand, thanks to your ability to make difficult subject matter easy to understand. Which remindes me of an old Italian adage, "Simplicity is Genius". Nice guitar by the way, is that a 2016 Gibson Studio?

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks! And good eye! It’s a 1993 Gibson les Paul studio .. one of my faves!

[@TC-bq5ri]

Sweet man closet, and great explanation of Ditheridoo... ; - )..anyway I've been watching this channel too long...subbed!

[@DylanODonnell]

T C haha some men need sheds, I just need a small lab and an observatory :) thanks for subscribing !

[@TC-bq5ri]

@@DylanODonnell My pleasure Dillon! Thanks for posting such great content! As a nubie to astronomy I need all the help and explanations I can get!

[@ziebol1]

Dylan (or someone else :) ) can you explain to me one thing: if you move the sensor to average out the noise, wont it make the image more blurry after stacking?

[@scottkester3339]

The stacking software uses the stars in the image to align the subs during stacking. Your target will look the same, but much of the noise from the camera will be averaged out.

[@DylanODonnell]

What Scott says is correct and in fact by moving the target around between pixels you can actually tease a little more data out (since there are gaps between pixels) which is why a little drift isn’t such a bad thing and also the basis for how drizzling data for extra resolution works. (More on that later!)

[@KB2AT]

Great video Dylan. Reach out too Starzona. It's only the drawer and a 1mm spacer for the rasa8. Perfect with 1600mm. Cant wait too see review. By the way....u plan on using the celestron 80mm guidescope with the 8rasa as well?

[@DylanODonnell]

Yes and yes :) I reached out to dean who is sending the things I need to make it work! They mentioned modifying the drawers too to make them easy to change out.

[@KB2AT]

@@DylanODonnell Yes. Dean and Scott are great. My friend CJ from Rosewell Astronomy mention that too them. Maybe in future a different drawer. But for now tape works lol. Check out his video

[@robsbackyardastrophotograp8885]

Thanks for the video Dylan! This has convinced me to dither tonight.

[@DylanODonnell]

Great!

[@Kroller9]

Instant Subscription! Thanks for the informative video:)

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks Kroller! I'm glad you liked it! Thanks for the sub! More adventures to come.

[@Kroller9]

Dylan O'Donnell I am looking forward to your new adventures! Keep up the great work:)

[@edwrobel6662]

Great video as usual Dylan. About the handset and plugging it into the usb hub. I asked Celestron about doing this back in November and they said not to do that. They said I had to plug the handset directly into the computer. Glad to see it can be done with hub. I have a CGX too so good to know. Take care...Ed

[@DylanODonnell]

I can’t imagine what difference it makes! The handcontroller is powered from the mount so it doesn’t even need power from the hub, just a connection. Works great for me!

[@captbuscemi]

@@DylanODonnell I'm pretty sure I saw about 53082 pages about that very important topic on a forum somewhere...

[@DylanODonnell]

Capt Buscemi haha sounds about right

[@tompackham5938]

If I Dither and do not die does that mean I can then Drizzle and make my image even better, especially if undersampled?

[@DylanODonnell]

You got it exactly Tom :)

[@andrespineda5458]

Today, I have discovered walking noise, today is a horrible day. 3 years into astrophotography and walking noise was unexisting in my images. It happens to be that my mount is SO BAD, it does the dithering automatically guided by its wobbly structure. Who needs an expensive mount, right?

[@sirmeowcelot]

Freedom! If your life doesn’t matter, you gain total freedom of what you do with it. It liberates you from having to meet expectations, because there aren’t any. why such a nihilistic perspective of life ?

[@dennisrkb]

Dithering is not only used for noise removal but also for super resolution.

[@anthonyexmouth]

What a coincidence, dithering for the first time last night with APT and PHD2. My issue was losing the guide star after a dither, not every time but often enough to be a problem. I enlarged the guide box but that didn't help. Any ideas? Oh, gear is heq5, SW ed80 with canon 760d and guiding with an asi120mm and SW st80

[@DylanODonnell]

That doesn’t sound right .. maybe try a smaller dither ?

[@anthonyexmouth]

@@DylanODonnell was already set to lowest level. First night on my new permanent pier too. Probably got weeks to wait until another clear night. Awesome channel btw

[@anthonyexmouth]

Thought I'd let you know, sorted the issue. Turned out to be a failing mount power supply. I carried out a belt mod on my heq5 and when testing the hand controller wouldn't connect. Thought the controller was broken as it's never been used, always use eqmod. Anyway, brought the mount inside and ended up using a different PSU, all started working and with the new PSU all the guiding issues have gone too.

[@DylanODonnell]

ahh good to hear!

[@Nottsboy24]

Interesting video my friend ☺ enjoyed watching 👍:)

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks bud :)

[@nikanj]

Do I still need to dither of my tracking is very poor and every frame is shifted anyway?

[@jamieamendolagine205]

I'm not sure what ascom would bring to linux since we already have indi, and it works great!

[@DylanODonnell]

It brings support for all devices/drivers that don't support INDI :) Everything supports ASCOM.

[@jamieamendolagine205]

@@DylanODonnell OH I see, good to know. I'm windows free, and don't have any devices that fail to work with indi. I guess they're out there.

[@Brossel]

Hey man great video as usual. I will dither my next Eta Carina and i will tell you how it goes. Thanks

[@DylanODonnell]

Great! Tag me in the result if it helps!

[@astronomylivestream]

Another great video!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks man :)

[@BGoff]

Great tips!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thx Bryan!

[@dankahraman354]

Have you checked out PhD2 Dither app yet?

[@AG-pm3tc]

lol that Monsanto shirt mate

[@AG-pm3tc]

and dude, you earned a subscriber BTW, with the subscribe to pewdipie lol

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe thanks man .. welcome to the club 😆

[@bansh3ee]

MONSANTO SHIRT!!!11!1

[@DylanODonnell]

Cool huh? :) Had to get it custom made.

[@JohnSmith-cv1yh]

Thanks for the info, love the channel. Also you are going to have to upgrade your shirt, they have been Borged by Bayer.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hah thanks! Damn all that work building up the Monsanto brand goodwill down the toilet! 😆

[@JohnSmith-cv1yh]

Hahaha yep

[@BrianH1313]

Nice explanation.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks Brian!

[@constellationshots3893]

Can you dither without auto guiding?

[@bkcuriosity]

lol to the Monsanto shirt.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe kind of a science troll to the local crunchies.

[@constellationshots3893]

if it was full moon, couldn't u do narrowband?

[@astrofordummies8157]

What telescope is at the beginning at the video?

[@DylanODonnell]

Really old Celestron f20 refractor I picked up second hand for solar work :)

[@astrofordummies8157]

I’m looking for something like that

[@Oxizee]

Dither each 1 image? Each 10 images? Each 100 images?

[@danielmarius31]

but what if im not autoguiding? how do i do this dithering?

[@DylanODonnell]

Badoiu Marius some programs let you do unguided dithering but none that I use! You really should guide though :)

[@akthethotboi9711]

Do you need to auto guide to dither

[@andyweeks2216]

Need to get Dylan up to 50k subscribers so he can quit his day job and make 5 videos a week!

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe by my calculations I’d need to hit about 120k subs before it starts to compete with my day job. One can dream :)

[@claudiorivieccio4967]

Good idea this video, but please better quality of PC capture screen.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thx I’ll try :)

[@alexanderreinders4009]

Where is your Starlink shirt 👚 🤩

[@DylanODonnell]

Elon won't give me one for some reason.

[@conrad1223]

I've already been doing this unknowingly because my mount is not that good haha

[@DylanODonnell]

Haha it's actually true. People who hypertune their research grade mounts (and don't dither) are more susceptible to non-random noise making it through to the stack. A bit of give helps a little ;)

[@JimmyDaboul]

Everything is meaningless and we're all going to dither or die 🙄

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehehe

[@timurhant469]

Why Dither if we are going to die anyway?

[@vansolo9794]

I stopped dithering years ago as I was told it was the thief of time. Don't tell me you are a Monsanto child...I'm surprised you haven't been hated on yet :-)

[@DylanODonnell]

Monsanto get a bad wrap .. they spend a lot of money developing non-GMO products for the organic supply chain and more hippies eat their produce than they realise :) Dithering is a theif of time, you're right.. but it's minor AND it's essential if you want to drizzle .. which I'll cover in a future video !

[@mick_hyde]

I never bothered with dithering, my images turned out fine.

[@DylanODonnell]

For sure you can get away without Dithering (I did for years), and process your way to a good result, but also without dithering you can't drizzle... more on this later!

[@shoryureppa4471]

Guitar and Telescope ? jejeje me too !!!

[@davepastern]

I'm surprised that Ascom hasn't been ported...

[@DylanODonnell]

I know .. I think the raspberry pi / Linux movement is pushing it forward and competing frameworks that are trying to cover other platforms.

[@davepastern]

@@DylanODonnell Linux is dead in the home...has been for years. Raspberry Pi users are even rarer. Linux is great as a server, or advanced workstation O/S for a competent user, but other than that it has way too many issues. PS I've been using Linux since '98...

[@dennislehtonen6915]

Oh, you’re the guy on twitter whose telescope was bombarded by a bird.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hah yeh that was me 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@Drewteam88]

Is Ditha different from Dither

[@DylanODonnell]

I assume so!

[@GoldSrc_]

But you love the moon, Dylan xD

[@DylanODonnell]

😡😄😄😄 of course I do!

[@jimstingz309]

ive lernt so much for you but were all gonna die so it doesnt matter!!

[@DylanODonnell]

refreshing, isn't it?

[@whome1319]

Nice shirt... lol

[@DylanODonnell]

Had it custom made :)

[@valentinotera3244]

I didda manually

[@greenwall380]

☺👍👍👍💚💚💚

[@viniguez487]

BROFIST!

[@DylanODonnell]

👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼

[@peteelpachorras2604]

i loose 1 fully night because i forgot to dither , nevermore

[@DylanODonnell]

We've all been there!

[@Dylan-xv3hp]

Why do you have a monsanto shirt haha

[@DylanODonnell]

Some irony for the hippy town I live in :) also they are a great company. Particularly in the field of GMOs and non gmo organic.

[@darkage101]

Instructions unclear, wanted to purchase a AP setup but subscribed to pewdiepie instead :-/

[@DylanODonnell]

Bahahaa take that t-series

[@rogerwilkinson2818]

A comment

[@Seafox0011]

Just dither and you will get the meaning. lol

[@DylanODonnell]

Haha!

[@MrOozieNelson]

Poor polar alignment = auto dithering

[@jareddavis1749]

1st

[@DylanODonnell]

Boom!

[@nicnapier1653]

I love it! Subscribe to pewdiepie! 🤣👍

[@DylanODonnell]

👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼😆

[@lachezarkrastev7123]

Still using Windows :))) Shame :)))

[@DylanODonnell]

Haha such a curse