🛠️ DIY Open Baffle Speakers PART 6: I should have these reviewed.

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Hi-Fi Cave

Күн бұрын

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@peterlundskow4061 9 ай бұрын

Best detailed baffle I have ever seen, thanks so much!

@stevejenkins-rq3fq 3 ай бұрын

GREAT.... THIS IS SO USEFUL FOR ME ... I AM LITERALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF MAKING BAFFLES FOR F15s AND WAS WONDERING ABOUT HIGHT OF DRIVER ... I DECIDED LAST NIGHT TO SETTLE FOR EAR HIGHT IN A 2/4 FT BAFFLE. THATS 32 INCHES IN MY CASE. MY RELS ARE AT THE READY TO FILL IN THE LOW END..... FINGERS CROSSED ... !... FINISHED IN ABOUT A WEEK.

@hificave 3 ай бұрын

Hope it works out!

@abxaudiophiles 10 ай бұрын

LETS GO!!! 🎉❤😊

@JohnZolla-bp7tl 9 ай бұрын

I have a pair of Betsy baffles using the Lil Fast 8. They sit atop a pair of SVS SB-2000 subwoofers. These sit on a pair of IKEA Kallax cubes. The phase plugs on the Fast 8s are at 44" and the center of the SB-2000s driver is at 24". The SB-2000s feed everything above 80 Hz to a Schiit Saga S, then to a PrimaLuna ProLogue Five powering the Betsy baffles. Crude, but surprisingly effective.

@user-od9iz9cv1w 10 ай бұрын

I think separating the baffles works well. I built U baffle for the bass. Basically a box with the back open, and then just set a small baffle on top of the box for the mid/hi's. I found isolating the vibration by setting the upper baffle on a silicon trivet then improved the sound.

@billbones1000 10 ай бұрын

Great video man!! I've been down the same rabbit hole, we have done very similar experiments with slightly differing executions: - I played around with different baffle material: 2 inch thick Maple was too reflective. 1.5 inch laminated ply (like you) sounded great but I found the build a bit flimsy. I settled on 2 inch thick cedar for my personal sound preference. My experience has shown that baffle material sound characteristics are very similar to acoustic guitar wood characteristics (ie difference between maple top, cedar top ect). - I have the same findings with regards to height of speaker on baffle. I prefer the speaker to be lower on the baffle but too low and it kills transparency. Solution I came to was to place the center of speaker 24 inches from floor but I tilted the entire baffle back by 5 degrees (cut the bottom of the baffle at 5° and also cut the edge of floor plate that attaches to baffle at 5°). This keeps the benefits of a lower speaker position but points the speaker directly at my ears in seated position. This worked out amazing! Degree of tilt would need to be adjusted based on how close or far one is sitting from speaker. - I'm using a set of Rel subs at the moment. I'm in a huge room (36 x 48 with 16 foot ceiling) so I need a lot of bass power. If you ever head down to the baie des chaleurs in the Gaspésie give me a shout, would love to compare notes over a lobster meal 😊

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

“Wood used in acoustic guitars… “thats what made me raise an eyebrow. Wood combination as used in acoustic guitars should have similar effects on baffles. Some woods are more flat, some are more crisp and detailed and some project mids or lows more in guitars.. one of my future projects.

@chuckmaddison2924 10 ай бұрын

I have experimented with a small open baffle using a 6.5 inch driver and rear facing out of phase tweeter with no crossover. Driven by Technics amp with Yamaha equaliser. I was surprised how well they worked.

@attainableaudio4533 10 ай бұрын

Nice! I like ob speakers but I've been going down the hole of cardioid, guess I like the challenge, lol. And yes every speaker I build sounds amazing to me and I think they should get reviewed, haha, just the nature of the process

@fernandoluna5734 23 күн бұрын

Wow! Awesome man!

@hificave 23 күн бұрын

😎👍

@snakeoilaudio 7 ай бұрын

May I share a little trick for your next project? It's not a game changer but another tiny step. Hiraga shared this with me (the old man is still sharp). I am sure you know these PHY drivers and they do something very easy but incredibly smart. Have a close look at their baskets. Their baskets overlap with the surround (without touching it of course), so they mechanically reduce the surrounds resonance sounds. ;-) Isn't that smart? So maybe for your next project you want to do the same trick but with your baffle. With your 15 inch unit I guess you will even have enough space to get something acoustic dampening stuff in between like foam or felt or something.

@hificave 7 ай бұрын

Thank you!!!! I took note of this

@shunpillay 10 ай бұрын

Awesome video! Thank you. Exactly the info that I needed right now. 😊

@NeilBlanchard 10 ай бұрын

A couple of random comments - the width of the saw blade cut is called a kerf. The 'L' bracket is intended to strengthen what is called a moment connection - the supports and the baffle are essentially cantilevered off each other - so the bracket would be much better if it was larger. And I would suggest 2 supports out near the edges of the baffle - they could be longer, and this would be more stable. On the bass response, I think that sometimes "wings" are used to increase the path length to lower the frequency that is canceled? The wing(s) can be on one side or both, and can be different lengths; to tune the bass response more independently from the height of the driver. Edit: tilting the baffle back a bit will raise the treble listening axis while keeping the driver lower - you have several/all of your builds tilted a bit; but it is worth mentioning.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Great stuff!!!

@johncallaghan3097 10 ай бұрын

I made a pair of Decware ZF15M clones in 40mm solid oak. Well, I say I made them, but I got the guy who usually supplies 3'x3' oak tabletops to cut them to shape and drill the holes for the drivers in them according to the plans I bought from Decware for $30. Didn't get him to cut horns for me because I thought the F15s sat flush on the surface -- only found out when they were delivered that they stand proud of the surface by about a centimetre. Hey-ho. The baffles are held upright by being screwed to sturdy triangular 45 degree oak shelf brackets screwed in turn to Sapele baseplates. The baffles are angled slightly back by using approx 1" high universal castors mounted near the front of the baseplates. Coupled with slim teflon glides at the rear, this also makes them easy to manoeuvre as they weigh a ton. The baffles were supplied Danish oiled, but I oiled the baseplates and shelf brackets too. I assembled them in a day or so and all it took was a screwdriver. All the hard cutting work had been done for me by my supplier. All told, they cost me £1300 (I'm a Brit), less than a third of the cost the commercial versions would have cost me here in the UK. Since I got them, I've listened to nothing else. They're bloody marvellous down to around 50hz (and supported for lower frequencies with a REL T0 sub). The midrange was a revelation -- so rich and full. I found myself enjoying real music for the first time ever - never realised before what I'd been missing. Don't think I'll ever go back to box speakers!

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Very cool!!!

@MykeHawke-r9r 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for making this video

@OpossumPiper 9 ай бұрын

Nice Build! (and nice pipe!)

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@chrisbishop2817 10 ай бұрын

Great Video! If I remember correctly, the Liionidas designer (Leon?) recommended that the top and bottom drivers use different baffle materials. So maybe a modular model with the W15's mounted in Mdf?

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

I have been thinking of a way to do this, but with a fully decoupled approach. Maybe the new Maco speakers dont have this issue with the quartz baffle.. im curious to hear.

@chrisbishop2817 10 ай бұрын

Those Maco speakers look damn sexy and the material’s are intriguing.

@joenovak6393 10 ай бұрын

@@hificave I am on the VIP list when Maco releases its speaker. I am now going to purchase Clayton Shawa CALADAN open baffle as I need to go with a proven speaker designer.

@thebastblastofficial 9 ай бұрын

Love your videos

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

Love your comment

@mannytheseacow7381 10 ай бұрын

The big Decware master series baffles are 42” high with the f-15 centered 25-1/4” off the floor. I think a bunch of testing went into figuring out these dimensions but I could be mistaken. Either way they sound lovely.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Yes ! Steve did lots of work there. I hope to hear one eventually.

@justlovelyaintit 10 ай бұрын

@@hificave I used my F15's on homemade square baffles.Had to go for two Rel Subs to get get satisfying bass. Now I use exact replicas of the big Decwares.The difference is huge.No more subs needed. Better staging too.

@brucermarino 8 ай бұрын

Interesting video. Have you considered mounting your drivers slightly to the left or right so as to distribute diffraction effects? Thanks!

@hificave 8 ай бұрын

i sure have. In a future build for sure!

@brucermarino 8 ай бұрын

@@hificave Great, thanks!

@Pksparty2112 10 ай бұрын

I was thinking of using a butcher block countertop that you can get from Home Depot. I’ve used them for making stereo equipment racks. They are extremely thick, heavy, dense and beautiful. They are 50”x25”x1.5” and the price was very reasonable.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

My last version was using exactly that.

@ryanchenoweth5673 10 ай бұрын

@@hificavedid you simply move to ply due to already having it laying around? 🤔

@gilberthardy8002 6 ай бұрын

good job Canada

@manulaffon Ай бұрын

I am building those right now, super excited. Where did you set the crossover point for the W-15? Thank you!

@hificave Ай бұрын

90hz. But you might be at a different setting.

@Hellahifi 29 күн бұрын

Hey there, thanks for this vid. I’m thinking of doing a similar build. I’m not sure if you’ve seen the plans for an open baffle build that lii was on their website for the F-15. I’m debating doing their design which is a bit wider at 1 ply vs your 2 foot wide with 2 ply design. In your experience do you think I have more to gain from a wider, thinner baffle or a thicker, less wide approach? Thanks!

@hificave 29 күн бұрын

Wider baffle, I find will increase projection of a wider frequency range. But it can be a double edged sword… its about finding the sweet spot for the driver and your space. Same with thickness, thickness seems to be more in vibration controll. Wider the baffle more sound projects, but if that baffle vibrates too much the projection will suck… its a big balancing act, and requires multiple attemps. Dont expect to nail it on the first try.

@Hellahifi 27 күн бұрын

@@hificaveI appreciate this, thank you!

@saverioricchiuto5386 6 ай бұрын

Hi Loic, are you using active crossovers? How do you manage filtering and phase and level for your woofers in their own baffles?

@hificave 6 ай бұрын

Crossover built in to the crown xls for bass drivers as well as gain. F15 operate full range but roll off around 70hz in these baffles so I adjust the crown to match. My preamp had variable gain outputs which gives me some extra flexibility with the power amps.

@ebonneau1 10 ай бұрын

Good job 👏 you🤘

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@obudaifourty9 9 ай бұрын

By using different mounting techniques, materials that are seen here online, and lots of modifications on the transducers including close to 5 years of experimentation, you can hear the current version of my own design on my tiny YT channel 🙂

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

I need to go hear that! 😎

@obudaifourty9 9 ай бұрын

@@hificave Hey my Hi-Fi DIY brother, no problem, but I am in beautiful Costa Rica. Believe me, they sound substantially better in my place.

@obudaifourty9 9 ай бұрын

@@hificave I did upload a few more samples. There is a need to replace my cell phone as it can't handle the real dynamic speed and spatial pinpoint coherence, and need to get a decent mic setup. After I get some new custom OPT amp's it will just keep getting better. It's a constantly evolving process, and I like it that way 🙂

@rvaillant 9 ай бұрын

Those drivers look suspiciously close to the MACO Macarias. Could it be the same driver? How would you describe the highs on it? I find full range drivers to be course, or lacking in speed and clarity over lower mass separates. Can you share what you used to cross over the low end of the full ranges. Thanks

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

They are similar, but not the same. Maco uses specific drivers made for their platform produced by the same company that makes these drivers.

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

Kept it simple, my preamp has 3 analog outputs, with different gain factors, so I use the low gain factor output for the 211 tube amp that drives the full range driver in these baffles, and they are at 70hz at -6db ish… and use the high gain output on the preamp to go to an crown xls class d amplifier which had built crossover configs that drives the w15 drivers in the back corners using their own baffles and low pass them at 90hz. Reason I use the high gain output on the bass is two reasons, first I get more head room with the crown amp so I dont need to run its own output to the w15 too high. Keeping the amp in it’s happy place but still get good and clean bass. Second, is the low gain outout to my tube amp that drives the fullrange drivers provides a much quieter noise floor to my 97db efficient drivers. Results, are very good. I mean by using full range drivers it doesn shine as much for large orchestral, but I dont listen to large orchestral as much as I do simple jazz, blues and rock trios.

@parthmadhubhai689 10 ай бұрын

you could decouple the two drivers in a similar way that Linkwitz did with his 521.4 design.

@ericelmore887 10 ай бұрын

definitely interested in taking on project . i wanted to know how you decided on you speaker driver choices. Was looking at pure audio project as an example but i looked at the prices of the full range driver and was floored on the cost.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

I wanted flea watt amp friendly drivers, and after speaking to Steve at Decware, I acquired the lii-song drivers. And have been loving them ever since. But im sure other drivers do a good job too.

@ScoobyGFunk2 10 ай бұрын

So did you abandon the F-15/W-15 combo? I paired my F-15s with the SB Audience Bianco 15 and it is amazing.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Not at all, they are just in their own baffle now, and the w15 are positioned in the room to maximise bass response with less effort making the integration more seemless.

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

I have Thomas’ reaction to an audition of the setup. Might be in a video in the near future.

@gmb7606 10 ай бұрын

Thankyou for your great work - what speakercable do you prefer for fullrange highefficiency speakers? Big ones with a large diameter or thin solidcore? Some Hornspeaker users like solidcore. Greatings from Germany!

@itsGnTO 10 ай бұрын

Duelend DCA16

@grottansbarn3494 6 ай бұрын

hi Cave, thanks for the wonderful videos, could you give advice on choosing speakers, lii sound has 2 types of f12: the first type is f12, it has a beautiful bullet and a thick cap on the back of the speaker, the density qts is greater than 1, there is a newer one the version called “f-12” is distinguished by the absence of a cap on the rear panel, and the bullet is not so beautiful, qts == 0.7. Question: which version of the speaker is better?

@hificave 6 ай бұрын

I have not tried the f12 versions. But, I think the one with a 1.0 qts has better top end resolution with a small reduction in bass performance. The one with 0.7qts has a bit bettet bass but a small reduction in top end resolution.

@grottansbarn3494 6 ай бұрын

@@hificave Thank you, very valuable advice.

@johnsnowlow1883 10 ай бұрын

Hi could you share your insights as to how much is the advantage of : In your words "Cutting up the baffles" and separating the f15/w15. VS your current setup (f15 in front w15 behind f15? Thanks

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Its for very picky people with the level of transparency and depth in their stereo image and lower midrange quality. But Both sound great. Separating top from bottom is a better result, in my room, with my gear and positioning, its 15-20% better on: soundstage, resolution, midrange texture.

@johnsnowlow1883 10 ай бұрын

@@hificave thanks

@MsCorbacho 4 ай бұрын

Hello and good evening , I am in the verge ( tomorrow , is already to late in the night now to ordered it ) to order a pair of lii audio f15 . I am thinking of putting the driver 75 cm of the floor to 80cm , I do think 75 due to the fact that my sitting couch is low , I am going to let a friend of mine build this as he is timmerman and a very good one at that ,I am thinking about building them with 3 different kind of real woods , one in the middle and darker wood for the extremes , precisely cut to the same width and glued together , It will be about 4 cm deep ( about 1,58 inches I think …..) and faceted like a mini horn in front , due to the fact that the driver is going to be mounted behind the baffle of course. I have just one question that I could not understand , and would be much obliged for the help , thank you in advance. What is the width that you have cutted the panels ? I was thinking about maximum 5 to 7 cm per side relative to where the driver ends on each side ,….so about 50 to 54 cm wide for the baffle , due to the fact that I never could understood wide baffles, as in my experience they only mess with soundstage ,and not in a good way . I will be using Duelund 12 gauge cable to connect them to a pair of binding posts mounted on an wood block mounted behind on the foot and isolated with rubber , Thanks in advance once more

@hificave 4 ай бұрын

Sounds like a promising setup! 👍

@ryanchenoweth5673 10 ай бұрын

I’m thinking of building these and having them at ear height suspended from cables along with either dual stereo or infinite baffle subs. Any idea what the imaging would be doing this? 🤔

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Suspended? No idea! Sounds like fun to try.

@ericelmore887 5 ай бұрын

What type of crossover part : Air Coils, polypropylene capacitors, precision resistance. Mundorf?

@hificave 5 ай бұрын

No crossover. Direct.

@nyyt1t 9 ай бұрын

Hi! Im interested these speakers, im starting my own speaker project and i have few questions. Have you limited the f15 at all or is it still full range? And im trying to figure it out that should i buy f15 or fast 15... I like wide soundstage but havent got straight answer about these two 😅

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

I do not limit the f15. I let the baffle determine the low frequency gap, and compensate with the w15 using the crown xls band pass. Takes some trial and error and easy room measurements.

@nyyt1t 9 ай бұрын

@@hificave im allso thinking about adding amt tweeter in the mix, i know its not the easiest but im curious about it. How do you feel, does the f15 need the upper region more?

@jerrybeute8884 10 ай бұрын

Do you think a setup with two 15's in each panels can be driven to good levels with 25 watt tube amps? Also are you bi amping the bass drivers on your other ones?

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Yes i am biamping with the bass drivers but in separate baffles. You mean 2x f15 drivers in the same baffle?

@jerrybeute8884 10 ай бұрын

@@hificave I'm thinking of doing the bass 15 and the f15 on the same panel. What amp are you using for the bass drivers?

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

@@jerrybeute8884 crown xls for bass drivers, for built in crossover adjustments.

@jonfoss3437 10 ай бұрын

I have a pair of fast 12's. Is there a resistor or some kind of choke i can use on them to fix the sound they are fatiging in the upper mid to high's

@lapocasini1246 10 ай бұрын

Yes, Decware sells an exact filter network for that for the Fast 15. It uses a 36.5 ohm resistor. I have the schematic of it and a foto of the finished network. I can text/email those to you, but youtube comments dont allow attaching fotos.

@lapocasini1246 10 ай бұрын

I just realized your talking about Fast 12 not 15. Maybe Decware has one for that as well? Or if the two drivers responses are similar you could try the Fast 15 network..not sure, im out of my depth as far as that gos.

@franciscorompana2985 10 ай бұрын

Yes, if they (drivers) are around 6 ohms you can use a RL filter in series with the driver for -2.5dB (a) and -5 dB (b) to adjust to your taste. a: 0,82mH + 6,8ohm n.i. b: 1,5mH + 15ohm n.i. (n.i. meaning non inductive, air core coils)

@franciscorompana2985 10 ай бұрын

RL circuit has the inductor and the resistor connected in a parallel combination with each other for this purpose.😊

@acclimate333 9 ай бұрын

What is your opinion of the Fast-15 for this project over the F-15?

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

Both are good. Using the f15 means less effort to ensure quality bass from w15 at the cost of some top end extension. Fast-15 means better top end extension with more effort required form the w15 to fill in the bass.

@hificave 9 ай бұрын

I think many, will prefer the fast15 for it’s top end performance.

@smos63 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for your excellent video. Why not F18s?. You probably know those. Can you describe in a brief the main differences between F15s and F18s?

@hificave 10 ай бұрын

Who said not f18? I just had the f15 already. F18 are awesome, I only had them on demo for a couple months last year. If you have the space. bolder, larger image, they just require more space. a bit warmer and more upper bass compared to f15, at the cost of speed with very complex and large orchestral music (if your picky).

@RobotronR6 10 ай бұрын

@@hificave how space do the 15’s and 18’s need each?