DJI 4G Cellular Dongle - Is it legal in the UK? (Watch this BEFORE you buy it!)

[@drone_kev]

As someone who flys light aircraft I know a lot of pilots use 4/5g to receive data such as live notams and weather data. Also ADSB devices aggregate traffic data via 4/5g alongside ADSB and flarm. Bose General aviation headsets have Bluetooth to allows phone calls to be made when flying.

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks Kev! Pinning your comment as it is a good real world example.

[@Baatory]

Good point! And from a technical point of view the claim that the device will be struggling when in view of more than 2 masts is laughable. This happens all the time and masts are being switched most of the time seamlessly. It's a highly sophisticated digital network and more range is better. The bigger problem is real ping and consistent data transfer. Ive seen as low as

[@Jakdaw]

@@Baatory no - that really is a thing, particularly in built-up areas, though probably slightly more so on 3G rather than 4G networks (which dynamically resize and reduce their TX power). As someone who worked on the 15th Floor of a building in West London, otherwise flat with no other tall buildings around - cellular coverage/reliability was *awful*, not due to poor coverage/faraday cage from building construction or anything like that, but because of interference from far away cells using the same frequencies to local ones where that normally wouldn't be a problem. And that was only ~50m up!

[@Baatory]

@@Jakdaw this is very interesting, I imagine in London in this case Your phone can see well over 10 masts. I assume the problem is that Your phone receives multiple signals from masts that dont see each other so they transmit on overlapping frequencies etc. In Scotland there's usually not enough of them so possibly different. That would make your phone connection very poor due to all corrupted packets. I still cannot imagine how this could affect network and performance of the whole grid in any significant way considering the low power of your phone's transmitter and the fact that Your phone will not try to transmit on a busy frequency. If someone is a bit more clued up than I'am please comment

[@netvisionz]

All this video highlighted for me is that carriers are greedy and will find the most lies to tell to ensure that you pay through the nose.

[@andrewlee6152]

Yeah... the moment I watched DN Productions video and his disappointment with the Dongle, I knew exactly why it wasn't working as he expected... He bought the dongle, grabbed a sim card, tested it and found the single dropping out and causing all kinds of issues.. Not sure where he was flying but I knew it had to be something to do with the sim card... So I looked into it a bit deeper... and yes, the standard sim used in smartphones etc., is and never was designed for use with drones... so you need a specific drone sim, from whichever network.. however I didn't realise, until watching this video, that you would also need a special license from Ofcom. Way back when I got a DJI RC Pro, which I used with the Mavic 3, I noticed it had a cover, which when removed exposed the connections for thos 4G Dongle... but back then they were simply no available, so I never really looked into it.. I sold much of my kit a while back and all I ha e now, is my Mi I 4 Pro, which to use this dongle also requires another piece of kit to be fitted to the drone and of course, it would most definitely take it over the 250g limit. While it does appear, at first glance, to be a great alternative, to certain people, flying their drone in areas where signal sufferes from a lot of interference, I for one, as far as the consumer side of things is concerned, especially for the sub 250 category, will be steering clear of such technology.. Yes it could certain prove very useful on the commercial side of things, especially vlos... but my advice would, certainly for the sub 250 flyers, just pretend it doesn't exist... and wait for ocusync 5. This is why Geeksvana, is my goto channel, to catch up on the news, find out the truth and not end up buying into something, I will later regret...Cheers Sean and the team, keep up the great work

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

Utter rubbish. His mobile would have struggled, too. Data is data. Networks don't care.

[@jamesmilner6817]

I would have thought the extra layer of safty it brings to the uas operators with keeping your rc connected to you controller would be most welcome

[@Geeksvana]

Hey James! Not at the cost of the security and function of the comms network itself. You can't take from something else to make another safer.

[@Colin-kk8rz]

Surely this makes it even easier for the Heathrow drone flyers we never saw which isn't legal,these people will surely get hold of one not worried about law licensing etc

[@Geeksvana]

It is a concern. Although by the fact that they are using a network connection that discloses a lot of information and evidence, it would hopefully be shortlived...

[@adcraziness1501]

My govt will say something like "why do you need a 4G dongle to remain in visual line of sight?"

[@Geeksvana]

It is a point in terms of the drone regs. But we need to keep the lines clear in terms of what gov can do.

[@conorstewart2214]

It is an argument they could make but it is likely overstepping boundaries. Ofcom deals with communications, the CAA deals with aviation, ofcom can’t make arguments about BVLOS when there are ways to legally fly BVLOS provided by the CAA.

[@adcraziness1501]

@@conorstewart2214 I can't wait for BVLOS rules. From what I have heard, and I haven't read into it much, the FAA has started letting pt107 ppl fly BVLOS but I don't know details. I think it is about time, we have FPV and navigation screens. If I can tell where I am by instruments, I shouldn't need to keep an eye on it. We are beaconing RID information so it's not like anyone interested couldn't immediately tell who it is and where they are. But I'm afraid it is my fellow drone operators who hold us back. People doing things they shouldn't be doing has always been a hamper on drone acceptance.

[@DMProductions]

Excellent video Sean. As mentioned in my video, I don’t recommend this product and should be kept to the commercial pilot. I do think it will cause more problems than good especially with people flying in cities. The dongle won’t be recommended by me and will be shelved.

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks, Darren! Your experience was a good one for others to see.

[@MP_2000]

Well done mate - excellent clarity!

[@Geeksvana]

Thank you, sir!

[@alaninkent]

Thank you for your comment ❤❤

[@uptowndisco2]

Where on the Ofcom site can you apply , I have searched through and registered but cannot find any references on applying for a 4G Licence with Drones ?

[@paulstephen2201]

Search UAS Radio Operator licence

[@cheekyoscar1353]

fantastic Shaun . Great information for everyone .. 10/10 ❤

[@eastcoast-UK]

Great factual information on the dongle, certainly won't be getting one for my Air 3 now !

[@DP-Ops]

Thousands of general aviation aircraft use iPads and mobile phones for navigation aid every day. It seems like a money-making scheme. Next, they might even require a special license to use a mobile phone in a high-rise building.

[@Geeksvana]

I think there are two separate issues. One of legislation in place for a long time and a regulator who must enforce it. Secondly, yes the monetization of the lower airspace will only get worse.

[@AnotherTrucking]

Great info as usual, much appreciated since i was going to order one. im happy been on the edge of legal but interfering with air traffic isnt acceptable and ill have to reconsider this now

[@Geeksvana]

Pleased it helped!

[@conorstewart2214]

Phones already connect to multiple towers, if they didn’t then you would have dead spots between every tower. I could understand the congestion and connection concern if people were talking about planes or helicopters but drones are limited to 120 m above the ground, not very high up. All these amateur plane pilots flying about likely have their phones on and connected to a network anyway.

[@Geeksvana]

Completely different things in terms of connection and speed of hopping towers. The main point here is to ensure people know they are breaking the law when using the dongle without the correct permissions, etc. They are also doing so in one of the most easily traced ways 😂.

[@cusuk366]

...So you cant fly a Glider / Microlight / paraglider / paramotor / Hang-glider with your mobile phone in your pocket?

[@Geeksvana]

The way the phone interacts with the network is different. It isn't trying to navigate airspace quickly. So hence you can fly on helicopters with your phone. It is the interaction with the network that then causes the congestion and bleed into other frequencies. The technical evidence is there and within the research for all to read.

[@bushgreen260]

*Most people buying this dongle will not get permission from the network provider and ofcom even though they know they need to. They will just stick a standard SIM and use it.*

[@Geeksvana]

Not sure it will be that wide spread though. People will literally be flying around with a beacon flashing 😂

[@iaincampbell4422]

Makes sense why, although plenty of light aircraft pilots and their passengers do use their phones all the time whilst flying. Flight mode when flying seems to often be a comercial plane phenomenon, not sure why that's different in practice with connecting to multiple masts...although I can see why so many more people might try this that they can't as easily turn a blind eye. It's a shame but makes sense. I do worry it'll go the way of apple watch esims where it'll always be an added recurring expense that's hard to justify.

[@Geeksvana]

Hey Iain! Yes, I agree. The technical side is a confusing one. But I believe it is to do with the drone constantly changing masts and causing interference with nearby frequencies and other users. Something I assume it can handle with a phone 🤷‍♂️. We were just keen not to see a bunch of viewers being prosecuted.

[@StreakyP]

clear & concise. Just hope people don't shoot the messenger

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks Ian! I don't mind a few hits 🤣

[@bikerxxuk]

What actually is this? what does it do and what would a drone op use it for?

[@rayfielding]

That’s really helpful, it honestly never occurred to me anything with a SIM card would not be legal. and need a licence. I am Guessing BT/EE will be charging premium rates for their sims.

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks, Ray!

[@pdtech4524]

This 4g dongle is nothing new, Parrot Disco owners have been using them for years!😊 How can it be legal, any device that is intended to be used to fly your drone BVLOS is not following the current rules.😮😳⚠️

[@Geeksvana]

Hey! Hope you are well. As with anything, now there is a significant income to be made, the networks decide you need special sim etc.

[@rubengarciajr7560]

dongle or no dongle people will fly bvlos.

[@66reeves]

Sounds like you will feel "the full force of the law"

[@Robalforduk]

So typical. Ofcom: You need a licence or it’s illegal. Me: Why Ofcom: Because we want your hard earned money Me: Yeah that’s what I thought

[@uptowndisco2]

There was never any stink kicked up when 4G was being used in flying wings a few years back (and still are) , as an example although the dongle was not supplied for use by the manufactures but made by the users , just one example would be the Parrot Disco FPV Wing , pretty sure others were also using it with some Parrot Drones , I can't remember seeing anything about it causing problems back then or anyone being prosecuted ?

[@Geeksvana]

User numbers would have been much lower. Also, cell networks are more advanced now and not always in a good way. I would liken this to long range FPV where a few people fly very far in the UK. If everyone with a DJI decided to do it, the enforcement would sky rocket.

[@uptowndisco2]

@@Geeksvana I think it will be a limited market using these too much hassle and cost involved for most people .

[@mytige20V]

Thank goodness the dongle is not available in the USA. It's not worth the hassle for hobbyists.

[@johnjones3360]

What about the standard DJI Phantom 4 RTK Dongle which comes with the controller

[@Geeksvana]

Hey john! RTK is radio, not cellular.

[@markbutton7501]

Was looking at this dongle yesterday and was just about to press the purchase button but seen this video before was due to hit the buy now looks like Dji wont be getting my 149 euro as i just cancelled it out of my basket

[@mrngreenthumb]

the law must be tested. Mine has worked fine on 02 and tbh i think that dji have circumnavigated this some how , mine works perfectly at low altitude on a o2 sim . the sim card is one i used for 2 years in a 5g router. with no problem.

[@Geeksvana]

It will work with any sim. That has never been the issue. It is just illegal to do so. Law that has been in place and tested in court since 2006. You are literally sending up a flag of your actions each time you connect. Using a sim in a router is not illegal. Connecting with a drone unlicensed is. There is no helping some people 🤦🏻

[@dynamohum5484]

There should be documentation on the dji retail site about requirements. This is negligent on the part of dji.

[@Geeksvana]

They do state that you require the permission of the network on the product listing. That, in turn, would prompt you to gain permission from Ofcom. But I agree it should be a lot clearer.

[@dave882]

You know there are a lot of places in the world with different requirements. How’s that their responsibility.

[@dynamohum5484]

@@dave882 if they can localise to place a £ sign on their retail site in the UK, then as a responsible retailer they should be able to provide more information pertinent to the country. I understand there should be due diligence on the part of the buyer, but part of due diligence should include having a reasonable amount of information regarding the product from the manufacturer.

[@whotshisface]

I'm genuinely surprised DJI have sold this so disingenuously. I even emailed them prior to purchase and they knew what I was asking, but said the CAA were fine with it. The most they do is list a tip..a fricken tip: Tips 1. If you choose to use a SIM card, please contact your local mobile network operator to purchase one Doesn't say to confirm legality or get the right SIM. I read that as hey Vodafone, I need a data SIM. Mines due tomorrow, I'll most certainly be trying to return it. They've damaged their reputation with me for sure.

[@Geeksvana]

Yes, it is also clear they sent the product to UK creators without telling them the legislation around their use. It is all a bit strange.

[@dave882]

@@Geeksvanaoh they sent out review units to people? Did those include a sim 😂

[@alaninkent]

Why can’t we just fly as we want x

[@olabergvall3154]

Because in the use of airspace, the number one priority is safety, not our personal freedoms. This is for good reason 🌷

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Excellent

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks, Jason!

[@dave882]

I just put a starlink on my whoop. I’m so 3008 you’re so 2000 and late.

[@Geeksvana]

Love it 😂. Whoops with Starlink... whatever next...

[@petetazflies]

D.M Productions on KZbin has tried out this dongle and it's absolute rubbish ! 😢

[@Geeksvana]

Hey Pete! I think the problems experienced might be because the sim being used was a standard one and therefore illegal. The network will be fighting the module connecting the whole time.

[@petetazflies]

@@Geeksvana I have told him to watch this video 👍

[@espritdrones]

What happens to people using phones 250m up The Shard?

[@Dom-De]

They use a local mobile mast?

[@espritdrones]

@@Dom-De and a drone 4g dongle would use a different one?

[@Geeksvana]

The phone up the Shard identifies as a mobile phone, so it can be tracked through various heights, be that land or building. A drone using the network would be flying along and swapping masts much more quickly. Also, Ofcom tell is that the drone module with a standard sim would try to link to multiple masts, causing issues with interference and congestion. The communications network is protected and regulated for very good reasons.

[@g0fvt]

@@Geeksvana FWIW my career in comms did entail working on many high elevation sites, at high elevations around London my mobile phone would continuously register itself to distant sites. Tough on the phone battery life and disruptive to the network. (unusually my phone had engineering firmware so I could see the problem).

[@Geeksvana]

@g0fvt. That's excellent information to know, thank you!

[@Colin-kk8rz]

Typical drone goes further than most UK,s poxy sims anyway 😂

[@Geeksvana]

Brilliant point! 😂🤣

[@auckwads8169]

So if you figure out hoe to get the signal out what about using it on the grounf, not on a uas , not in the air not governed by caa

[@Geeksvana]

This video did not cover CAA regs. Doesn't matter if you are in the air or on the ground, Ofcom are the regulator responsible for the communications network. So the drone rules don't actually apply to this issue.

[@Droningonuk]

This just sounds like a money making racket to me!

[@Geeksvana]

There is certainly enough people with their hands out for one system... The future of airspace does seem to be focused on income.

[@kayakinggraham]

This if abused, which it will by the minority, will have a massive impact on the hobby.

[@Geeksvana]

Hey Graham. Yes, I agree. It won't take many headlines of people using a dongle before we see action.