DM PCs | 5e Dungeons and Dragons | Web DM

DM PCs! Player characters controlled by Dungeon Masters...we get a lot of flack because we think they're usually bad news. So we thought we'd tell you why we don't like em, and the right ways we think exist to play them. Get LOKE BATTLEMATS: www.lokebattlemats.com
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[@GuardianTactician]

Now I have an urge to introduce a "DM NPC" who shows up, playing up the trope that he's some perfect hero, only to have him get killed like a red shirt in the first encounter.

[@WebDM]

Hilarious Jim has an idea for an action movie like that where the protagonist is killed in the first 5 minutes and then the whole movie is everyone else struggling, but all the promo comes from those first 5 minutes and it's a total bait and switch. He laughs and laughs.

[@OldSchoolGM94]

@@WebDM isnt that kind of the idea of The Other Guys? The main characters (hero buddy cops) jump off a building and die while chasing bank robbers and it is left to "the other guys" to figure out the crime.

[@EricScheid]

Jim will need to make an Executive Decision

[@Leto_0]

My group is all first timers and they chose pretty unconventional race and class choices. At some point I plan to have them meet a group of 4 very stereotypical "PCs" inside a dungeon. Most likely they'll immediately try to kill each other but there's lots of fun possibilities

[@thebigdawgj]

@@WebDM That movie has been done before.

[@Happy_Jack9606]

Jim’s mighty mane is growing to eclipse his majestic beard.

[@WebDM]

We've been informed that it's called "hockey hair"

[@chrism6315]

Hes going full Colville

[@jh1859]

Wouldn't be surprised to see him hoist the Jolly Roger. Heh, heh, heh.

[@SpidermanandhisAmazingFriends]

Jim is a man unlike Samson. More beard, more hair only makes him stronger.

[@UninterestingPedant]

The Flow™️ is strong with this one

[@nickr1818]

I'm not gonna lie, I really miss the longer videos with the tighter editing. I'll always watch web dm but it's hard not to notice a real difference here.

[@mathemagicianTA]

Long form content is in their podcast format, in the vid description. Just in case you missed it!

[@francoisbaldo51]

@@mathemagicianTA which is paywalled right?

[@thorinpeterson6282]

@@francoisbaldo51 nope there is now a free podcast and a patreon podcast

[@DarkDodgers]

@@thorinpeterson6282 I dunno man, podcasts never hit me the way the normal longer form content does.

[@ashemountain]

One of my DMs ended up with a PC for a character he thought we would end up killing and being rid of (kobold emissary of a dragon sent with us to make sure we keep our promise to return). Instead, we adopted him and he's become a core part of the party with his own arc. DM usually keeps him in the background outside of combat but my character has taken a shine to him so usually involves him. It's very collaborative storytelling but the focus is still on the three of us.

[@derekburge5294]

Willie M here's right. That's just an NPC and a most excellent one at that!

[@taustyz5875]

There was one campaign where the players were trying to fight the 4 horsemen and they saved this one kid who's dad was killed by the horseman of plague. The kid ended up being adopted by the party and they took him with them, and there were great rp moments. He even knew a bit of magic and was a background healer. Then when he grew up it turned out the kid was the horseman of war and there was this dramatic battle with a betrayal and it was super emotional. However, they managed to save the kid and get the avatar of war out of him. That was a really cool party companion NPC

[@animistchannel2983]

As a GM, I've always used party-NPC's, especially in the beginning when the party is likely to need a gap-filler for skills they hadn't developed yet. It's also a way to occasionally feed information or an outside point of view to the group to help keep them from running suicidally off on a lark. They even provide a point of sympathy for the party to care about. What I make absolutely clear and usually end up proving in various ways, is that this is an independent person with their own limited knowledge and point of view, and that is not equal to mine. They can be wrong about things in the world. They can be fooled by other NPC's. They can have their own problems. They can get sick, injured, called away by personal matters, or even die tragically (or heroically). I like players to be able to play whatever they want, but I also know what it will take to have a shot at success in the run. When the party gets together, they often (at least at first) have some vulnerable gaps in their skillsets. The party NPC can fill that in some, and they function as a member socially to some extent, but they don't generally have the full ambition of a player character. They have some storyline of their own, but it isn't the party's storyline, and it doesn't trump the party's storyline. Once they are no longer crucial to survival, they may decide to settle down or take a position with some allied organization; and maybe they become an occasional ally or resource, but with their own motivations from there. I've found that with this formula, PC's do get invested in the party NPC and their sub-plot. They will go to heroic lengths to protect or rescue their friend. They enjoy and take pride in the party-NPC's eventual evolutions. Sometimes, they will even avoid getting themselves killed on some crazy plan, because they don't want to get their NPC friend killed -- it's like a bonus sanity check. So the point of that kind of character is to help the PC's get more invested and attuned to the world, not for me. They are a story element, but not my "special avatar" in the game. I'm already busy enough being everyone and everything else the party encounters. If that's not good enough for me, if I'm too jealous of my world to be happy generally portraying it for others, then I shouldn't be letting players in there in the first place.

[@meltingskeleton2082]

The only time I kind of do this is when I am breaking in a table of full new players. The NPC gets a different name and look but it's role is always the same. Old wizard OR cleric that is simply there to provide support outside of combat until lv3. I then have the old mentor killed off. This allows me to provide tips and information the players want while still role playing and being in character, on top of a adventure hook to hunt down the killer and claim vengeance. Works like a charm every time.

[@lordgrendell]

If you get them captured, it REALLY drives the PCs. They want their friend back!

[@Leto_0]

Hey I'm running my first game with first timers and that's exactly what I did! He died valiantly trying to save them, although I tried to get him captured, that woulda been better. My group is a bunch of complete edgelords in-game, so getting them to progress the story and not piss off every single person they meet was a real challenge, even with the babysitter. He died last week so we had our first session without him last night. The PCs were starting a new adventure in a friendly town in the middle of a festival. The bard charmed a girl into having sex, the rogue tried to buy poison from a street vendor then threatened her, the half-orc tried to rob a guy in the middle of the street in front of everyone, the brawler decided to eat something, but he's a picky eater, so it took multiple NPCs for him to eat. An hour in and the story hasn't progressed in any way. It's gonna be a long campaign...

[@athetos461]

As someone who runs a DM PC, I'll say that it's very important to keep character information and DM information separate. I tend to run it as follows: 1. Here are the factions and people in this setting, and they want things. 2. The characters (including said DMPC, as well as player-run NPC's) are also factions, and also want things. 3. The DM (i.e. the one who runs the DMPC) is only there as an objective arbiter of the rules. 4. The players (not the characters) have a lot of agency in regards to their own additions to the setting and rule discussions. 5 (extra) Loot is split equally at all times. Magic items are given to those to whom they are most useful. It's hard, but also somewhat rewarding. I play a Wizard, so I try not to think what would work with an encounter, but rather what spells they'd prepare as a character. So no taking advantage of foreknowledge, at least I hope so. One thing I did notice is that I tend to focus the subplots around the characters I play, but I try my best to give everyone something to work with plot-wise. The reason behind using a DMPC is wanting to well... play the campaign. We had like 4 GM's who all flaked on us. It's an online forum game, so there are significant differences between play at the table (for example, the time-hog downside is pretty much negated due to the nature of the medium). In the end, we all decided that I'll run the game's "system engine" and give out hooks, and everyone else will also contribute with their own ideas and hooks. For example, one player says there's a racially diverse mining city city, so now it's factors in it's existence as an important story beat. The players are enjoying it, so that's what counts in the end. I'd say do it if you're play by post, but IRL, the GM will have their hands full with the monsters and plots, so a DMPC will just be a drain on resources.

[@SAAMAverageman]

Well said. I was in a similar situation. 2 years in and we never had a DM get a game past 4 sessions. I started DMing to try to get a long term campaign, and succeeded too well, getting stuck as "forever the DM, never a player." As DMs, we build the games we want to play.

[@Iceblade423]

Random rolling for loot helps with the magic item factor a bit; though I can't imagine having to deal with 2 or 3 players and a DMPC in terms of magic item distribution and attempting to get any items for the DMPC. When you have one player (who is a wizard), the DMPC fighter is easy to give stuff to; especially in pre-built modules. I'm still amazed by coincidence of randomly rolling three magic items during one adventure I created: a Wand of the War Mage, a Rod of the Pact Keeper (perfect the villain of that adventure), and Javelin of Lightning (perfect for my DMPC Battlemaster who fights like a Roman Legionnaire with javelins and a sword and board).

[@megakedar]

In politics/faction focused campaigns, DMPCs are basically unavoidable, as players will be potentially bringing along various allies along on their missions. Ideally speaking this will be a rotating cast.

[@aurtosebaelheim5942]

One piece of advice I can give is: feel free to hand NPCs over to the party if they're on the verge of becoming DMPCs. As a GM you can still veto the character's actions (in case players are likely to use the NPC as a trap detector, meat shield or unresisting robbery victim) and you can chip in with things the character knows or wants if it's relevant, but otherwise they're another PC controlled by the party, just like an animal companion, hireling, mount or sentient magic item. It gives the person who's character spends all combat CC'd or out of range something to do.

[@paulh3892]

Or if their character dies half way through a session... BOOM you’re back in the game as this character until the group comes to a stopping point.

[@AuntieHauntieGames]

Man, the sound balancing is really good here. Sounds like you two really are in the same room.

[@mpschauster84]

It is gonna take time getting used to the new quick hit format. I normally listen while I am driving home from work but now I think I am gonna shift to a coffee/webDM break from work listen. Thanks for all the content yall, keep it up

[@jdjones7855]

Our group convinced a young tabaxi rouge to be our trap detector our dm plays him well and he doesn't take the spot light often if at all. We have many pleasant memories of Shadowclaw and he is still with us to this day

[@NoahAregood]

Alternative to DM PC's: If your group really, really likes an NPC, use the Sidekick rules from UA. You get to feel like you're a more important part of the game and the players get to see that one npc they like a lot.

[@captaindudeman3613]

Sidekick rules are just thinly veiled DM PC's guidelines to prevent overshadowing PC's. A good DM who cares about story can do this with just normal NPCs and a DM PC. Sidekicks just do it without real depth. But it is a good system for those that can't do it other ways to enrich a game.

[@NoahAregood]

@@captaindudeman3613 I can agree with this. I just personally find it much easier to level up an NPC with the Sidekick rules than it is otherwise, like if you don't want a full DM PC, but your party still wants an NPC with them for an extended period.

[@MrSilvUr]

The one GMPC I've encountered was a basically a Party NPC. What a handy term for that.

[@WebDM]

Thank you for watching! Got a long show coming up for ya later this week, yall! Get Loke Battlemats: www.lokebattlemats.com Get more Web DM AND get more Web DM: patreon.com/webdm

[@OstravaTheBrave]

I love how they got Pruitt’s notebook in the art

[@TheRedVelvetScare]

I accidentally have something like this. I had a peer of my characters give them a intro lore drop and direction for them, and 2 years later, they drag him everywhere. I have them to roll find him if they want, and when they go on adventures, they want him to tag along most of the time because he's useful, so it has been such a delicate balancing act. I have him interact, but never decide. I have him participate, but only to lift up the players. I have him speak up to other characters to allow space for each player to have their moment. So far they won't let him just chill or fade away, and they actively seek him out, so I guess its working.

[@EilonwyG]

It wasn't until I got back into playing D&D with 5e (after a hiatus of 8 years during the 4e era) that I even heard about the concept of the DMPC and how "you should never have one" and "it never works out". And It has honestly given me a bit of a complex in terms of how I talk about my games with others because my group has had PCs for everyone regardless of who is DMing that particular campaign since I started playing over 20 years ago. My first DM had one and every subsequent game that followed continued this same format, no matter who was DM, no matter if we switched DMs in the same campaign or only kept the one. This is how we've played for 20+ years. With the advent of 5E and the conversation around terrible DMs with their "DMPCs", nothing has changed for us on how we play as a group - only now I have to censor how I speak about my campaigns. If I'm talking about player character things, I don't let on I'm also the DM. If I'm talking about DMing, I don't let on I also have a character in the campaign (or two, our group plays multiple characters as a general rule, and currently I'm just playing one-on-one with a friend, so she has 5 characters and I have two full characters and 3 Party NPCs that will probably get the full PC treatment soon). I feel like I have a dirty little secret that everyone will condemn me for, condemn my friend for. Maybe it's because we have such a high RP-focused group, and it's mostly about the interpersonal relationships between the party members that this works so well for us. Maybe it's because we're such a close group of friends and we trust each other. Maybe it's because most of our campaigns are the adventures these people take in their journey to becoming a found family. No one wants to be outside that family when all you get to do is DMs. Maybe it's because none of us are true DMs at heart (even though when we are the DM, we work hard to make it fun for everyone). I don't know why "all DMPCs suck" and ours don't. But it sucks that I have to lie about it to others in an effort to keep them from judging me. And I'll probably never DM for a bunch of strangers for this very reason.

[@valasafantastic1055]

ME too.... I keep saying "my Players" When I'm DM and have only one player. I pretend all My DMPCS are other players online to avoid the hate and stigma. My Player loves them, loves how I DM and keeps not wanting any to leave or be 'simplified'. It works perfectly for us. So I really do understand. Also I've been playing more than 20 years too.

[@EilonwyG]

@@valasafantastic1055 Same! My player has begged me to keep characters I never intended on keeping and was even bummed when I talked about leaving one behind for the bulk of the adventure, so I relented. She's even been an advocate for giving the three true NPCs PC classes. I really think a lot of this is a case of bad DMs with bad DMPCs giving the rest of us a bad name to the point that everyone is too afraid to even think about doing it themselves (or rent and what they have in a game to make it sound more acceptable to themselves). But I also think our experiences goes to show what keeps floating around the hobby - there's no wrong way to play as long as everyone in the group agrees with the method of play.

[@jarydf]

I know I made other comments before. Seriously we love you, it is ok. We all love and this game. It is all good. This makes you all more like the rest of us in the long run. We don't know what is going on. Thank you for posting this video. We live in a weird new era. Trying to bring people together. Please keep going.I don't know what to say.

[@MikeDunkley]

I'll be that guy. Ha I'm DM'ing Ghosts of Saltmarsh with my friends and I created a PC as well. We use what I call a Rumor System, where every player comes up with a side quest based off a rumor made up of truth and lies and they DM that adventure when it's chosen. Before the party can level up with the main campaign adventures, they have to complete a certain amount of rumors. Whoever is DM'ing, their character either stays behind on the ship, or tags along as an extra body. We haven't had any issues with anyone abusing their PC while DM'ing because we all know not to ask that character for answers to the situation. They are there to fight and support the party. I don't think this is a big deal if you have a close group of friends that accept the situation. They would call me out if I suddenly was favoring my character, and I would do the same for them. We are only in a couple of months into this particular campaign, so maybe time will tell.

[@davidguinn5355]

Thank you guys for continuing to regularly produce content in these exceedingly strange times. Listening to you two has been a favorite past-time of mine, and I'm glad you guys still get it together.

[@oielvert]

When Jim says 'seems innocent enough', I'm getting ready for a horror story.

[@zionich]

Is it bad I am sad this was only 9 minutes? For my friend I was introducing to DnD in a solo campaign I had some DM Pcs that rotated in and out of his quest. I made sure to remind myself that the player is still the star of the game. I think that is the hardest part to remember so not to get caught up in the DM PC.

[@SkullSnax]

I’m glad this video cropped up because my group have just had 2 deaths so they’re “taking applications” for new members from their guildmaster. My plan was to give them the 2 players new PCs, and then throw a few options in there for an additional member or two to go with them, but I wasn’t sure how best to play that function. I think not making a full character sheet, not giving them too much power/control within the group, not making them to the same level as the group, those things all help. I’m currently thinking that I’m just going to make them all apprentice/intern level within their guild, so they have to be paid and kept etc. And just giving them very basic combat and knowledge assets that the group can lean on when needed.

[@dq4331]

I have a long-term player character (of my own) that the players would always recruit into their adventures so I made a point of relegating them to a support role wherein the players make the decisions and come up with the plans and my character (who is the face when I play) only helps execute them (distracting guards, etc). I also found a player I trust to run my character as a part-time sidekick and we pass them back and forth as is most appropriate. In other words, they are a party-NPC when I run and a player character when I play.

[@d-man3589]

I was running a game where I was the DM and I had a PC. He was a warlock that I played as a town guard in the town the players were in. His whole story was that he was someone who lost his family and almost died himself but he gave up his soul just to live for revenge. The catch was that he was against Yeenoghu the Demon Lord of Gnolls. The point was, he was unable to get his revenge alone. Now for his highlights: He got KO'd in his very first fight, and the players had to save him or he would have died...again. They had to contend with a literal army of Gnolls He almost got eaten by a roper that the party completely slaughtered when they saw he was in danger. In the end, my players were so in love with the character I was playing they literally took on the minions of a Demon Lord of the abys to save his soul. Half the game my character was virtually helpless because I could not roll higher than a 10 for almost 3 sessions in a row. He brought some much-needed fire power to some of the big fights but early on they knew he was not reliable in a drag-out fight. His main focus was that he was just another victim of Yeenoghu and the players were able to see the suffering the demons inflicted as he was forced to enact horrible acts against his will because the Devil he bargained with was always adding on clauses to his deal. In the end, he was freed from the contract and was able to die and see his family in heaven, and the players felt like they did something amazing just by helping out my crappy Warlock. Good game. As long as a DM is invested in the STORY over the PC most of the time I think it can work. For all DMs who want to play a DMPC please remember that it's when a character loses or fails that the most fun happens. Don't make a Marry Sue or a super-powered character. If you want to make sure you are impartial make one of those concept tests characters and make that your PC. Like can you make a Kobold Cleric or Half-orc sorcerer? Or try out the good old 3d6 in order and see what you can make from that. If they die then who cares. Half the fun is coming up with characters. Or better yet roll your dice for that character on the table for transparency. This should not be an issue if you're not a self-centered but-much.

[@lordgrendell]

To me this is just running a really great NPC.

[@eainjones9509]

I have had two dmpc's so far. The first one was to keep the party from just doing nothing, which is a real danger with that group, he was the noble's butler. He was never intended to be anything other than a side character to make snide comments and make sure the rest of the party respected his mistresses personal space. But the party kept interacting with him and wanted to get to know him, so I decided to flesh out his backstory a bit more, and give him a secret history as a warlock, and the players loved it. I created the character the same way I would any other, and only let him have access to information he could possibly have access to, and made sure he wasn't too useful in combat or skill check moments. After they got attached to him, I made sure to kill him violently once they leveled up. Now everyone's character misses him, which I didn't expect. My second dmpc is for a different group that has only three members, and one of them is completely new so I created a tanky lizardfolk just to balance the team out. They only have two spellcasters and a rogue, so it's not exactly a viable party. I picked lizardfolk so the character never becomes the leader or the center of attention, I can basically roleplay him as a braindead lizard, but it's still helpful to have a character for my newest player to have as an example, in case she gets nervous about acting like a dork in front of her friends. I'll get rid of him, either by killing him or just having him walk away from the group once they get another player to balance out the party properly

[@Grizzlox]

Just let them surpass him in level and slowly turn him into a supporting npc. I've done it before, they don't always need to die

[@Jimalcoatl]

I have a similar situation to Pruitt's ship captain. The PCs are hunter-gatherers and the tribe chief on character orders the tribe to do whatever the players decide out of character, or via randomocracy if he needs to break a party decision stalemate.

[@wuzzy41123]

My first DM did this and it was a nightmare (in 4th edition). They focused the story on their PC, gave their PC artifacts, and would break the rules for their PC so that they could be min-maxed to an absurd degree. They didn't even allow the players to follow these "new" rules. They got their PC to the point where they could take the rest of the party on by themselves. We don't play with them anymore.

[@theskurj6288]

I had a DM PC once, we rolled stats. He's was a true beast not including my DM knowledge. Long story short, I killed him off.... But then I gave my party of four including myself as the DM character and NPC Arrigal, a set of "prayer beads" to call upon the super OP paladin Artonius. The catch, they only had three charges for the entire campaign of Curse of Strahd. Needless to say, they chose wisely. Anyone that is still reading, don't do it, as much as you might think you can separate yourself as the DM. You're only fooling yourself. Web DM, keep it up, you guys are awesome. Huge help as a DM and a player alike. Cool beans.

[@erik.stewart]

I'm currently running a A Song of Ice and Fire campaign where the characters are members of a noble family the players generated. The House Lord is an NPC, that ultimately tells them what to do. But I have the large decisions about the House made by the players, like Jim was describing. There's lots of NPCs, but the players are the driving force and are writing the story.

[@turfinat0r]

I have the curse of my cool persistent NPC's dying randomly. Like the cool ass barbarian ally dies in the arena by getting nat 20'd by a random enemy. The cool soldier with a magic flamethrower rolled 3 1's in a row while prepping the magic flamethrower, blowing himself up. The giant centipede that the party loved got merked by a mind witness. RIP NPC's I love.

[@jarydf]

The beautiful part of being a WebDM fan is when you think you are Jim but realise you are Pruitt. Seriously Pruitt I love you. It is not bad it just took you a moment more to love eternity..

[@Smeagolthevile]

I am in the same position as Pruit. I am running a star wars game in 5e. The ships have multiple stations that NEED to be filled, and not enough PCs, so they have 2 npcs, a droid and a navigator, that stay on the ship, do those roles in combat, and are the 'man in the chair' when they need them, but they never leave the ship (except for then the droid shook down the jedi padawan for credits to go buy a mine to place in the captain's bed)

[@WebDM]

Awesome

[@bossmanjan2521]

Jonathan, you should be proud, judging by his majestic, messy mane, short beard and warm, deep tones, your Jim is going to evolve into a Matt Colville.

[@halifaxsteppenwulf7980]

I'm currently DMing a game where the party keeps asking a pair of NPCs to accompany them, including into combat. They've gotten to the point where they're offering the NPCs magic items and asking for their input on decisions. The way I've managed to keep this in line is by making sure to emphasize to myself and my players that these NPCs really ARE NPCs, down to them using basically unmodified NPC stat blocks (aside from the Assassin being one sent by a religious organization to kill the BBEG, so he does radiant instead of poison damage).

[@BrandonGiordano]

My DM has a DMPC named Elmo which only joined our party because we wanted him to come along. We actually lean on her character to kind of guide us when we're unsure of where to progress the main plot thread of our campaign

[@argyllofalanjeh86]

Hey Web DM, I've watched your videos for quite a while now, I believe I started watching you lot late in 2016 or early in 2017. I have always loved your videos, but it's only my first time commenting. I'm not a native English speaker, so my apologies for any grammatical errors or strange sentence constructions. I used to have a game in which I was a DM, and I had a full on DMPC. By that I mean a complete character sheet, with levels, spells, backstory, living relatives. It was a Wizard that took part in the combat, got downed a couple times, in short, he was a fully functional Player Character. That campaign was my second time DM'ing, I had only DM'ed one campaign with some real life friends which took only a couple months. The campaign with the DMPC was quite a lengthy campaign, spanning about 2,5 years, with sessions every week or every other week. The campaign itself was quite linear I would say. I suppose that was just a simpler way of DM'ing, as I was quite an inexperienced DM back then. The main motivation for having a DMPC from my end was simply ''I really want to play a Wizard'', as simple as that may sound. More than half of the players were completely new to the game, so they didn't mind it much, in all honesty, probably because they were up for just about any first D&D experience. I still play D&D with most of the players from that campaign, so it seems the DMPC wasn't a dealbreaker for the players. However, we've all agreed that a DMPC is far from ideal. It could potentially take away some of the playing experience that is normally reserved for the players, and on top of that, it might lead to the DM not focussing enough on his or her 'DM-duty'. Since I did play a DMPC for 2,5 years, I figured I would offer my insights about the experience: - My DMPC was quite a naive character. I designed it this way so he wouldn't act like a blockade for the actual players. For instance, if the players want to steal something, or do something that is not entirely correct, then having a naive DMPC might be a good way to keep that space of action intact. The last thing you want is your DMPC to limit the actions of your players. - One of the main struggles was the roleplay. Whenever I was actually playing an NPC, I had to be very clear that my DMPC would not be taking part in that roleplaying. If my DMPC would roleplay with that NPC, both played and voiced by the DM, it would just be an incredibly awkward echochamber. Again, that would be taking away some of the playing experience from the players, which I wanted to avoid. - Rewards and magic items were never really an issue to our group. In general, I did not give out that many magical items to begin with. And I even randomised some of the rewards and magical items. On top of that, I kept a sort of balance regarding the amount magic items per player. - With regards to your DMPC knowing up front what is behind every door, that is once again a dangerous topic. I can't really say if there is any satisfying way to 'solve' this, your out of game knowledge as a DM might influence your DMPC's decisions, even subconsciously. The way I approached this issue, was to first of all have a clear flowchart depicting what checks or decisions need to be made in order to learn a piece of information. If a PC, or my DMPC failed to do that, then the information would not be available to the party. My DMPC made decisions based on what I felt he would do, which is obviously influenced by his class, background and backstory. After all, the Wizard is far more likely to look for any runes or sigils on a slab of stone, he's not very likely to begin lifting it. Again, I wouldn't say that I can 'solve' this issue, but the best workaround for me was to ensure that the actual problems faced by the party could be solved by the skills and decisions of the actual players. My DMPC could be a supportive figure, but he certainly wasn't the star of the show. - Combat was interesting and similar to the point above, problematic in the sense that it is definitely an area where the DMPC might make decisions that favour him without the DMPC actually having proper reasons to make those decisions in-game. I tended to solve this by having a sort of standard spell list, which was just the list of spells I had at the ready in most day to day situations. Usually, it was a mix of damage spells, area of effect spells like Grease, spells that help to gather information etc. If I had no reason to change this list of prepared spells, I would not change it. But if there was good reason to make alterations, I would do so accordingly. For example, if we were getting ready for a tough wave of fights, there would be more damage spells. Often times, I would let the players chime in too, so that they could suggest spells, and if I made a change to my set spell list, I would also declare that openly. Secondly, there is always an issue of positioning on the battlefield and which PC's get attacked by which monster. Again, there isn't really a solid solution that makes all these issues go away. But again, the way we worked with it, was to have a sort of 'standard battle formation' and 'standard travel formation'. We do this commonly, the survival expert is up front, a flanker is a bit to the sides, the vulnerable characters are in the middle, and lastly, some sort of tanky character or wisdom-based character is at the back. If there are no reasons to deviate from the standard formation, then we stick to it. That way, we avoid the old issue of 'this event happens but whereabouts are we on the map?' In terms of target focus, I would try to prepare a sort of strategy (or lack thereof) for the monsters we were fighting. Some beasts may simply attack whatever is at the front. But other combatants might focus the magic users more. It takes more time to prepare, but it does ensure characters don't get special treatments as easily. It meant that my character got cursed together with our fighter. Exceptions shouldn't be made for a DMPC for obvious reasons, but I would also urge caution for having certain effects only affect your DMPC. - All in all, I played my DMPC as more of a supportive character. He was a fully fleshed out PC, but he wasn't there to steal the show, or run the operation. He would look at what the others are doing and what's going on, and try to slot in to the best of his abilities. The naivity and supportive character were crucial in running the campaign and the DMPC in a satisfying manner. On a related note, since we played this campaign online, my character rolled all his skill checks and attacks openly, for all to see. So there was no fudging behind the screen in this regard. As I said, these days I just focus solely on the DM'ing part. To ensure you don't get a conflict of interest, I do recommend just sticking to the Dungeon Master part of your screen, not the Player Character part. Having a DMPC in a functional manner does require a few things. A session 0 is obviously crucial, and if the players really don't want a DMPC, then you probably will have to make do with that. Second, you need to be very honest as a DM. Your DMPC is also a PC, which means he can be cursed, charmed, hurt, so there should not be any favours there. Third, I recommend keeping your DMPC as a supportive character in the background. I feel that if you have a DMPC, and it's also the protagonist of the campaign, then you're honestly probably better off writing an adventure tale for yourself. If your DMPC is eating away at the experience of your players, then your DMPC is most likely in the limelight too much. With that large write up behind us, thank you many of your awesome videos, keep up the great work!

[@jgr7487]

I remember very fondly my DM's PC in the adventure that brought me back to D&D. he was a DM with a lot of experience in DM & playing, who made a DMPC to fill the void of a melee healbot, who'd never allow us players to use the character to fish info from the DM.

[@TheOscarvarium]

When one player dropped out of a short side-adventure I'd planned at the eleventh hour, I replaced his character with a DM(N)PC who was just a part of the group. My solution for not having him influence the party too much: He was a low Int paladin who had sworn an oath of silence.

[@Billchu13]

Boba Fett is the perfect example of the DM controlled NPC played right. Perfectly built, might have a cooler backstory than the PCs, two lines, comically falls into Sarlaac pit.

[@RiMarBrown]

Two of my favourite, most memorable characters are dm-PC’s created because the party went “wait we didn’t make a character that can do that... why don’t YOU make one...” the first was a rogue, and she is a nightmare of a halfling- will go ham for the party but anything shiny ends up in her pockets. She gives anything back she took as soon as they look for it. Smart players start dirtying up their things- and learn you could give her a bottle of glitter for an item worth 100k and she would feel she got the better deal. I love her and hate her- she was terrifying before reliable talent in 5e cuz the dice love her and she can’t fail (except vs hold person... never... since she was made 15 years ago... has she ever succeeded vs hold person). Shae will always be my favorite. The other is a healer priestess/cleric named Dremeri- an elf dedicated to the goddess of healing and light. She took a vow to harm no living thing even in defence of her own life (she will magically restrain it so you can hurt it). Carries no weapons. Wears only her vestment gown. Carries no backpack. She is very direct and opinionated. And she exists because the “you make one” table that birthed Shae decided not to make any healing capable member and again told me to when they realised.... so like before, I made exactly what they wanted in a way that would be a constant source of both nuisance AND helpful. They now appear in all my settings eventually... Dremeri I can predict... Shae is harder. I’ll just see her in my head somewhere the party has decided to go and I usually feel bad for them. My most recent group ran into her and decided to try to recruit her.... the one before that sank her boat full of shinies and still fear mention of any halfling with purple hair.

[@DrLipkin]

There's a subject I'd like to hear you guys weigh in on. The DMG suggests a grittier style of play where short rests take a day, and long rests take a week. I'm intrigued by this style, but feel that I'd have to rethink how each encounter and combat would occur in such a game. Could you discuss potential pros and cons to this style, as well as changes from the norm that it might bring about? What does a dungeon crawl look like in this style? What about a story arc?

[@danielvancourt8152]

Co-DM star finder. Ship needs spell caster to function. Both DMs have spell casters. Whoever DMs that day has to keep their character on the ship and specifically powering the ship. Make sure they are monster of the week. It lacks the grand quest idea but it’s still fun.

[@irontemplar6222]

I have never been comfortable with DMPCs as someone who is a DM most typically. I also dont like games were rules like "no PVP" are set for the same reason. I dont like forcing other players to have to go along with whatever I decide to do. I dont have a problem with giving character levels to NPCs I do it all the time both with NPCs that are party allies, Nuetral parties, and of course VILLIANS!!!! But in the few times I have made a DMPC. I usually end up neglecting them, or turn them into an NPC. Their was only one case where it worked. We were doing a 40k Iseakai Campaign, and we were going to rotate GMs. Since I was playing myself it made it alot easier since I just had to think "what would I do, given the current information" It also worked because eventally my character. Stepped away from being apart of the group, and became a sort of gang leader/Kingpin. The other big thing that made it work. Was sometimes it just helped me actually write big events.

[@davidjohnson2146]

I have a loose "No PVP" rule because in the current group I DM a few players have a tendency to not keep their arguments in character and I don't want to have to stop the game for an hour while one of them bitches about getting knocked out. I def don't want one of them deciding that they want to kill another character because they are mad at them irl.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@davidjohnson2146 yeah a PVP reasonableness rule is fine. I get that, but, and you use an example that happened to me. We were playing Vampire the Masqurade. I'm playing a Ventrue holy knight character vampire (high humanity, even got true faith). One of the other characters Tremere. Sacrificed a person's wife to a demon. In exchange for magic sword the buffed his magic by one point. My character knew about the demon Smith, and was trying to take care of it. You also roll a supernatural sense check whenever you see one of these weapons to detect if its magic. I stright up told both the player before he went down this road. If you go down this road my character would fight you because of it. Because what your doing is wrong in the most sinful evil ways possible. Well he does it, and I tell the GM hey heads up "once my character finds this out he's going to probably kill that character" the GM then said, that he doesn't allow PVP. He then said, "why can't you just think of some way to just be angry at him, or something other then pvp" Arguments happened. It ended with myself and half the party splitting from the group. Basically bad experience.

[@matcaissie8937]

@@irontemplar6222 I've somehow been all three guys in this story at various point in my life. I'm wondering if your old GM talks about that session when the concept of "it's what my character would do" comes up.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@matcaissie8937 I mean out of character I didn't care because it was a game. In character. I'm playing a true faith vampire who's whole sticke is facing the darkness and evil people in the world. Whcih said tremere character was being the textbook definition of. Here's the thing they actually offered to undo the action. The problem was the event that transpired wasn't relevant. I didn't want to play in a game where my character and there ambitions are things other players just have no choice but to go along with. When that happens it sucks the fun out of the game for me and I constantly wonder if I'm just being an asshole.

[@johnlbailey2]

So I actually had some experience with this via taking over a campaign. I played as a player, and then took over as DM, so my character stayed in the group. At the time it made sense. I very much ran him as an NPC in the sense that he did not contribute to much info, etc. He helped in combat but seemed to have a tendency to get downed a lot. It also helped that we were playing in Forgotten Realms, the character was a drow, and I moved the group into the Rage of Demons campaign, so natural fit. For various reasons having to do with story, character, and extra plot things that I was adding in, the character wound up with a magic item. This started a constant series of comments, conversations, and passive aggressive jabs from the players. Each one a reasoned argument that boiled down to "you just gave yourself some stuff and we should have had it." These are good players, and good friends, so no ill will or anything of the sort. Plus I was running the character with complete separation between my knowledge and his, they couldn't just lean on him to solve the problems, etc. All of that said, it was not a good idea in the end. No matter how fair and how careful you are as a DM, it will eventually lead to some form of this scenario. I wrote the character out of the campaign later on, and I think the result was a much improved group experience. It was less work for me (beyond controlling in combat, having to constantly go back through "okay, what would he actually know and think about X Y or Z"), and it removed even the slimmest perception of any sort of favoritism. If I had to do it again, I would definitely have had my old character just go off and do other things, though it would have changed the story we now have a fair bit.

[@andrewdavis200]

I was a bit confused as to how you covered the topic of DMPCs in only 9 minutes but after watching I'm glad that you made it so short. Delineating between DMPCs and party NPCs is an important part of the discussion. People often conflate any NPC that travels with the party as being a DMPC and that anchors discussions around this topic around the wrong talking points. I fully agree that it is a fool's errand to play a character while also running the game. The whole point of being a player is making meaningful decisions and reacting to the world around you. When you are sitting behind the screen there is not a way to separate your DM knowledge from the character knowledge.

[@Boudah67]

So, a bit of storytime: I played with a group for around 3 years, and I was a player. A couple of NPCS constantly showed up to help, namely a half orc monk and a gnome wizard. For the longest time I thought them to be DMPCs until at the very end of the campaign we found out they were unknowing agents of the big evil bad guy, manipulated to steer the group in the direction said baddie wanted the party to go for its own benefits. Probably the best handed DMPCs I have ever seen, because when it was time to let them go and the group to go its own, it happened gracefully.

[@feathersigil2048]

I think Cere and Greez from Jedi Fallen Order are good examples of persistent NPCs who have authority but don't remove players' agency. Greez is the captain of the ship but he's no warrior or revolutionary, he's just a pilot. Cere oversees the mission on a whole and mentors Cal, but she's unable to go out and get things done for personal reasons. It's Cal (the PC in this analogy) who enters the field, accomplishes the mission's goals and overcomes the mission's obstacles, and he does so as best he sees fit (the player can choose which planets to go to).

[@ncamon]

I had to run a DM NPC once, and it worked out. The reason whey I had to was I was running the game with family where my younger brothers, one being in middle school, never played and my dad last played 2nd edition D&D. They ran a fighter, bard, and rogue; so I made a sorcerer that focused on utility support with a little power for combat. My dad's favorite move was casting enlarge person every fight. I made it to where my guy was regularly taken out of the picture for reasons whenever possible until I could remove him when they got a decent handle on things. Being a hostage while the others went to negotiations with an unfriendly group. Basically he was an equal level Gandalf for the group until the others could run on their own.

[@RJ_Ehlert]

If I were to use a DM (N)PC, it would be a character without PC Class levels, one who has a specific utility function; like scientific knowledge, talking with spirits, or connections at the Royal Court. Run specifically as a support character who doesn't lead the PC group, one who thinks of them as the heroes they are.

[@kylestark1800]

If I'm learning a new system I will always make a DMPC for the sake of understanding the rules better. The only thing I do differently is have them function as a mentor type role for several sessions until we all grasp things fairly well. Then they either die, move on or settle into a place where the players can reach them later. The higher up interactions my players have for games I've played for a long time are usually my old characters from those games though and are NPCs in the traditional sense.

[@DrPie0licious]

I have a cast of DM PCs that my players rotate through like Skyrim followers. It's fun for me cause I enjoy making new characters frequently, and for encounters I can show off nasty (specifically homebrew) attacks or effects my monsters are capable of by bullying the NPC.

[@Matikin2929]

My go-to party NPC is a polite neutral Lizardfolk fighter who has a life debt to one of the party members.

[@valasafantastic1055]

I think our group actually has no trouble with DMPCs. However the continual online hate and virtriolic judgement for the very concept has led me to keeping it more a secret. I'm afraid this is the first video of yours I won't give a 'like' Because you didn't even really consider how/why and when it works. No dislike because you did say 'if your group has no problem...". I'd like to say they are sometimes essential when there is ONLY 1-2 players and a DM to fill in party composition otherwise many adventures are very hard to run and PCS die WAY too easily and feel powerless not heroic. Every group I've played with has had at least one DM PC and never had a single problem... I've played for over 20 years. Maybe some people can't handle them. But there are cases (1-3 players usually) Where filling in party composition from just a ROLL play composition standpoint makes them EXTREEMLY useful. Everyone I've played with hated the 'party NPC' They want the Person to behave like a full detailed powerful adventurer with their own goals, ideals, bonds and such. Not stand passively by or wander off away from the party. Seeming to be only their for their specialty. So I suppose to each their own.

[@stephenclements6158]

Agreed, DM PCs can be just fine. It's not hard to keep it all fair and above board if you: roll the DM PC's dice where the other players can see them to dispel the possibility of favoritism, they don't get any unexplained powers that nobody else had a chance to get, and before the DM PC acts one makes sure that character could reasonably do so knowing only what they should know or could guess at.

[@stephenclements6158]

Oh, and when interacting with NPCs or declaring what they are doing at a critical time, let the other players go first and speak the most.

[@captaindudeman3613]

This! All this! I think a better lengthier video really exploring the concept of a dm pc when it applies, when it works, what are the pros and cons. What are the pitfalls. It's not a hard concept to wrap your head around once you get past the usual "oh it's an egotistical dm who wants to play every part of the game and be the star."

[@valasafantastic1055]

@@captaindudeman3613 I agree. I'm considering doing a DMPC related video with art on my channel. Perhaps these two are far too personally biased in a negative way to do a fair job at this particular subject...

[@johnno4127]

My groups have only ever had a DMPC when the group was small and needed the extra boost of variety in available abilities. This character always disappeared because it was too much work for the DM and detracted from the other players' gameplay. My current group has adopted what you called a group NPC for healing and protection in combat, it's a lot easier to run when anyone can say what he's going to do next.

[@melon.gel9]

Maeri from the Dames & Dragons podcast is a good example of a well-handled party npc

[@WebDM]

We'll have to check that out!

[@rudybasso]

@@WebDM yeah check it out!!! I've guested a couple time!!!

[@monicavix6036]

In my games, I only ever use DM PCs to push the plot forward. For example, one DM PC which was introduced in the first session? She was killed in a later encounter (~4 sessions in) which spurred on many questions on what happened and such as they got back.

[@R1vi]

I've alwase seen npc/dmpc as a complex thing. Love the info

[@doublematt2364]

I in my first ever game ran a Dm NPC not even knowing it was a thing. Not because I wanted to as a Dm I rather because the party fell in love with this character Trevor The Southern Werewolf Barbarian. They owned a ship and had him join there crew as a quarter master. He was always a few levels under the party because he would only really fight if the party asked for him to come along. In addition the game only had 2 players it was just me and some friends. So Trevor was just a help in combat 70% of the time. I had a players role his attack role and decide his actions. I would say Trevor was more akin to a parties pet. He had a 6 int and just loved killing he was so dumb and loyal he would do whatever the party said. I role played him and my grouped loved his personality. To the point the artificer made him a special axe called Acid Licker. (Flame tongue but does acid). Which was the only magic item he had other than a + 1 spear he was given.

[@TheNEPTY]

I was this channels 253rd subscriber and in all these years I haven’t really had to disagree much with these lads. This episode However screamed of bear and pretzel D&D lol. If you have a small group, the DM can play their own character just fine. You just have to follow certain rules that make it so that your character doesn’t always answer the riddles, finds the path or convinces the NPC. Don’t play them stupid and follow the other party members. It’s really never been an issue at all. Many people play in groups where the other players can’t/ don’t feel confident enough to run the game so this is a great option. Help out in dialogue and combat but don’t step on the toes or steal the spotlight of your fellow party members.

[@Wizo062991]

It can technically work, with many restrictions. The main issue is when the DMNPC is having any form of decision making in the party. If they do, then it automatically fails. If the DM gets attached to the NPC, then it automatically fails. Those are the 2 main issues that need to be addressed. If they are, then some people consider them to not be a DMNPC, so it is often a problem of definition. I personally have done DMNPCS a few times, and finally found how to do it well since my 2 latest DMNPCS over the past 5 years are loved by the party. Even though they don't do much : P

[@prophetisaiah08]

I've used my own PCs from other games as recurring friendly NPCs in games that I run, but that's a big distinction. There's a big difference between a party member and an allied NPC that probably has a stat block that's probably a little too complicated. Very rarely will these NPCs adventure with the party, but are mainly sources of information or support. The main PC that I brought into my longest running game was *significantly* higher in level than the party, so they largely encountered him when they were doing research at their newly found home base. When the party went out to adventure, this NPC would usually go off on related, but "off screen" solo adventures to bring back information to the party. One PC I used as a reasonably competant NPC subject for an escort quest. In the end, if I have a PC that I want to bring into a game that I'm DMing, I try to be careful about how I think about this character. In the end, I'm can't bring my PC into the other player's game. I can, however, use my PCs as inspiration to create the NPCs that I drop into my party's path. But that's the key distinction: While I'm behind the screen, this character is not my PC; they are just another NPC. And if I ever think that I'm loosing that distinction, it's time for me to retire that character from the game.

[@jh1859]

Didn't EGG allow players to have NPCs to manage in the way of hirelings and henchmen? In fact charaqcters would die so easily sometimes that if their current PC died they could have an NPC 'inherit' certain things and continue with the campaign. I prefer it when PCs are allowed to die, its more realistic.

[@AuntieHauntieGames]

Yes, but careful readings of the rules books indicate that TSR's assumption was that the players would usually controlled these characters, with the DM simply giving guidance on how the henchman or hireling might behave if it seemed the players were making them act out of character, except when the DM had to take control for specific plot reasons.

[@leodouskyron5671]

Closest to a DM PC was on a Marvels Superhero’s game duet. The player wanted to play in the Mutant apocalypse and he came up with a super teleport character. If you know about Sentinels they will dog pack a single character with infinite numbers neutralize their powers and kill them. So going solo was not going to work to well. So I let him find and befriend a cat-humanoid character that was a character I had from another campaign. Originally he was smart independent, complex, Self assured and catnip for the ladies (he’s he was a visual pun). He was very powerful but I changed him to make it work. He became simplistic and immature and not fully aware of his abilities. I basically set up the PC have to lone Wolf and cub this character. PC wound up having to make goals, decision making and keeping this girl crazy cat boy from being made into kitty burger when (as usually happened) he tried to take on 3 giant robots because “you not the boss of me”. I had converted him into a teenage “cub” and that meant the Player had to make up the difference. Only once did the PC try to make the kit make a choose for the PC’s character as to know what way to go and I let him choose to try to go to a beach to look at girls (yes a really bad choice but a teenager one). Player asked me why did I do that and I told him, I can’t make choices for you the player and the cat boy loves looking at girls In thongs. The player never relinquished control till the campaign end. I don’t consider cat boy a NPC cause he had a sheet and I made a lot of the player energy for him so much he was more then an NPC and still it was hard nit as much using him as keeping him dependent when I knew how to make it so he could be a full character. And that was the key if you wind up in this situation. If you feel like your persistent NPC has the spotlight on them a lot you want to subordinate them to the PCs. Add more vulnerability to them. And make sure (this is a must) they get much much less stuff, praise and attraction then the PCs. You do that and you can have a DM PC - because you are converting them to being an NPC. Though also (and let’s be clear) there is nothing that is more tiring and deflating then having to make sure your cool/dark awesome PC walks around with training wheels and not able to pull that Legolas you made him to do. Better to save him and play him as an actual character.

[@TitanicTortise]

When I run Curse of Strahd if I don't have a character with magic skills I have an NPC (DMPC) that can reluctantly provide magical assistance. He levels with the players and typically only provides input when the players ask.

[@JosiahAkaBrick]

I needed this video for my tiefling PCs ten siblings and two dad's. It's going to be challenging, but fun! Here's hoping there's tips I can glean from this video

[@WebDM]

Ten siblings!! Wow

[@JosiahAkaBrick]

@@WebDM Fully fleshed out; names, ages, likes and dislikes, subrace, abilities, and everything. I just have to somewhat stat them and act them out

[@WebDM]

How many other players?

[@JosiahAkaBrick]

@@WebDM two are in this family; five regular players, with a sixth on the periphery. Eight players- so these two player's NPC family outnumber the actual party.

[@steveejohnson7932]

"Here's a little song about DMpcs. It's called: 'Don't do it'"

[@ciarkaredric5653]

The last few games I have done It has been me and my Best Friend and his wife, some of the campaigns I have had rotating NPCs to come in and help when needed, others I have had a full on character in the group witch was in the background a lot, he was there just to give the party a bit more of bump in power, as running a two person campaign is still kinda new to me, as i am use to having 4 or five people

[@JoeAuerbach]

The DMPC is a big part of the reason that my NPCs do not have PC stats and sheets. Narratively, they might seem like they do, but they don't. They have NPC stat blocks. It makes it way easier to separate those things in my mind.

[@theark890]

There’s often a thin line between a good/long term npc and a dm pc. I’ve since learned that it goes well (depending on the player) if the npc refrains from solving the problems directly. Then it stays about the player/s, rather than the DM getting to be a player and solving their own problem. Not to mention the DM should stick to the personality, flaws and all, of the npc they created, and not be afraid to let the player get the npc killed. I’ve just started running a one PC adventure - My player wanted a balance of combat/strategy and social/role play moments - started level 1.5 elf moon Druid (started in prequel adventure where they learned up to level 2). They’ve loved it so far; I do my best to prep what I call an open railroad (sandbox/open world was hard for me with a single pc), and edit monsters to fit single player with 1-2 followers. Lots and lots of NPCs in this single player adventure though, and a lot more interaction than multi-player parties I’ve ran. I’m glad I spent some extra prep time on creating other notable/unique npcs, as well as some interesting random encounters (sometimes I use plots from old D&D magazines). The events can also go by really fast. My Player often consults npc/s who follow, I use this chance to give subtle reminders of past convos or clues the player forgot, but from from the npc perspective if they were present for it. I’ll let npc’s attempt things for the PC, and/or have the player roll a charisma check depending on the task. Combat - the player makes the decisions about movement and attack, but again, only really knows what they can see or have discussed about the skills and abilities of their followers. Sometimes I jump in to say something or showcase a skill/ability the npc has. If the npc is following for awhile, I’d eventually reveal a combat card with the skills, abilities the player knows about their follower. I used Matt Colvill’s followers system for damage and saves which was a lot easier than figuring out all the armor, levels and such (also a gateway to a DM PC). Followers scale with the player, but can be lower or higher in level depending on the quest/adventure/party role/need. Long story short, don’t solve the players problems or be the spotlight as an NPC - they’re there for plot, inspire, or to make the PC/s look and feel cool. And, imo, don’t be afraid to let the player get the npc killed - it’s good for them.

[@vincentgonzalez6115]

I'm usually the DM to one person (My girlfriend) and we focus more on the storytelling aspect of DnD rather than combat. My experience through that may be a bit Skewered, But the First game I ran with a group, They had an NPC Artificer who would make them basic equipment/repair their stuff. He would occasionally fight alongside the group but he not often was it of his Volition as the players would drag him into it. I believe that's an NPC, but I'm unsure.

[@Afrancis1968]

I make DM PCs incase if we have a group that is not enough for the balance. They roll just like the others and the DM PCs rolls are open like a PCs. I only have them roll if other players ask the NPC to roll. My gf who is playing a solo game and has a cleric named Adam (My DM PC) that helps in healing and tanking damage. She solves the mysteries by herself and I give her hints in the mind of if I didn't know any of the answers. It is allot of thinking and takes allot of work but we have fun.

[@ShootingStar489]

I'm going to be DMing a group of 2 people soon and I've made a character sheet for the npc third partly so yeah I can play like that but also because I dont want to just leave these two high and dry. I really hope that once they get to lvl 2 or 3 I can tone him down so they can take center stage properly and I can focus on the story and background NPCs more.

[@SirZelean]

In both my homebrew campaigns I like to have a lot of NPCs who I let join the party. I really like to have a "Dragon Age" approach to my "DMPCs". I normally let them give their opinions and even let them take the spotlight, and while that might seem dangerous, there are ways to make it work. First off, their opinion is theirs, not the DM's. Each of them will have their unique point of view, and not a "the DM said so then it's right" nor "the DM is trying to trick us". That requires a lot of work behind the scenes to flesh out the characters, but that's not a problem for me since these campaigns are actually stories for other projects I'm working on :P Besides that, I often refrain from giving their opinions, unless they are asked for it. During combat, most of my NPCs are built to take supportive roles, like buffing, healing, and setting up plays, so that it's harder to take the players' spotlight. But there are assassins and berserkers too, and how I deal with them is a little different. See, with the players' consent, I don't let them discuss strategy AT ALL during combat. When's your turn, you have roughly 10 seconds to declare what you are going to do or take the Dodge action, there is no time to stop and discuss anything, just shouting a command at best. Not only does this makes combat faster, but forces them to discuss beforehand. This way, even if an NPC takes the spotlight in a fight, it still feels fulfilling because they are acting according to the plan the players themselves devised. It doesn't feel like a DMPC is taking their glory, but rather that their plan is working. I also let the NPCs take the spotlight during the story. "That's bad" one could say, but "Nay!" I respond. Going back to Dragon Age, I do much like the game does: there is the main plot, and there are side plots for each NPC. During the main plot, NPCs are there just as extras. But during each of their side plots, the NPC in question becomes a protagonist, in the sense that the players will be helping the NPC to overcome their problems and the like, as they become both a party NPC and a quest-giver NPC - and the fulfillment comes from watching the character achieving his/her goals, seeing that the player's help made a difference. And finally, I never let more than 2 or 3 NPCs in the party at the same time. In both campaigns, the PCs and party NPCs share an HQ, and before a quest or adventure, the players can choose from who's available in the HQ to accompany them. Of course, I won't say "NO, you CAN'T bring more people. This is the limit". But I'll often have a couple NPCs going out on their own for other things, maybe someone is out buying supplies, maybe someone is hurt and recovering and that other one just doesn't feel like going. I mean, it's been working pretty well so far. I get to show off the cool characters I've been designing and developing, I have plenty of plot-hooks available when I need, and players get to feel that the world is more alive, make friends, form bonds... and one of them even noticed last session (session 3 for a new group in the reboot/rework of one of these 2 campaigns) that the game really has this Dragon Age feeling to it xD #Feelsgood

[@cossackhetman]

Wonder how Jim feels about the new sidekicks mechanics brought into play in the essentials kit. Sidekicks in players hands rather than a DMs would be my guess.

[@Iceblade423]

As I see it, the key factor and consideration with such a character is impact on party agency. To me, a DMPC is definitely more potent and permanent than traditional NPCs and on pair power-wise as the players, but still a sidekick. (also best not to have a central plot focus or arc) Preferably one weak knowledge/tactics-wise so the party doesn't ask him about stuff unless it is something he might specifically given his background. Also, must have all die rolls in the open for this character. If I had a three player or even a two player group, though, I would be rather reluctant to have a DMPC. Maybe just a NPC tag-along, but less significant party-wise than the DMPC.

[@stanwolford9743]

I have a DM (N)PC in one of my games that the Players have begged for me to not kill off. She is the source of drama and has more baggage than a train car but they adore her even with all of her issues.

[@BreezyDefrag]

I can see your perspective, but back when I started I wanted to play a character, but NO one wanted to DM so I played the PC and DM roles... and honesty I didn't have an issue with PCs getting irked with me, it was me getting irked with them because my character would make a check, as my character would have done in those moments, and then EVERYONE was like 'Oh we should do a check cause they did' I even used that to get the party into some trouble trying to show that just BECAUSE I run that character doesn't mean he knows what's going on. It actually worked out, and again this was back when I first started and no one wanted to take the mantle of DM. I have done it a couple times after that and the only issue I found was that I sort of forgot I had a character lol and so they faded out. Now I am playing Ryuutama and the DM/Ryuujin is actually a character themselves within the world, but they are there to help the other travelers with limited and dangerous blessings, as the DM can actually die in the game and that would cause the journey to end for the travelers. it was an interesting work around to the system. But even still the Ryuujin plays in the background. Point being if you are someone who wants to play, but you are stuck with being the DM, there are systems out there that accommodate for that. There is also DM-less games that I have recently been interested in exploring. So could you guys maybe talk about some of those kinds of games?

[@ericorange2654]

I have a similar situation to Pruitt, all new players and small party with a sailing ship. But, the players are the captain. I have an npc who is a navigator. No combat abilities and does not join them on adventures. But, is there to answer questions for players about the world Also can we get some longer vids back? I love the deep dive discussions.

[@fireninjawizard709]

I love the drawn set. It looks great and adds so much character to the episodes!

[@WebDM]

Thank you!

[@scythebladex]

I'm honestly surprised that you guys didn't mention more suggestions to curb this habit many DM's seem to have. One effective one I have found is using Intelligent Weapons, as described in the DMG. It talks, has a distinct personality, can make suggestions to the party from its unique perspective (sometimes without being asked), but is ultimately just a tool that must be used by the party to be effective at interacting with the world around them. Maybe instead of the weapon being intelligent, its actually a former hero from long ago that died, but their spirit lingers on in their weapon for whatever reason. It can be sort of like the new God of War, with Mimir's head that Kratos carries around, helping with problemsolving if he gets stuck, or to guide a path forward if nothing is clear, but Kratos is the decisionmaker and badass doing all the cool quest shit. I feel this approach can really scratch the DMPC itch, taking a character that could be as cool as the party members that is fun to roleplay as the DM to have an identity that is always on the party's side and present, but keeping it solidly in the Party NPC territory.

[@dragonearth5456]

The closest thing to dm pcs I do. Is when I use one of my PCs for story reasons generally as a tutorial for a mechanic or lore very rarely as a back up party member.

[@Heath86]

Yes as a dm I try to limit npcs I control in combat or following the party. The party for a brief time got an ogre out of prison and he aided them for a time. As soon as they returned to the town though I had him leave the party and go on his own journey. I am looking to put in hirelings for them as backup characters. I am still not sure how to do that in a way that flows.

[@quonomonna8126]

I think if you're low on players, like if you only have one player, giving them a sidekick can work out ok if you use a simple stat block for it, roleplay its personality as the DM but let the player control the sidekick's actions in combat and roll the sidekick's dice

[@quonomonna8126]

I have the "great" book of dungeon mats, its two books you can put together in various ways, 40 pages each

[@lavantelemar3098]

First off you are right about alot of what you've said. That being said I run a dm pc and here is why. (Hopefully this can be a bit of a road map for sms who use this form of expression to also not make it unfun form anyone else) first off realize that you as a dm comes before you as a player. That is a big issue I see in these cases because the dm won't treat their pc as a pc. When I use this form of expression I make sure to make a seperate identity in my head and if I feel like I am to close to the line I consult my other players. The other big reason I do it is because I run alot of extremely small parties with players who like big fantasy. The dm pc becomes a rounding off factor for my party. Thirdly I personally find that I get role play moments with. Dm pc and a pc I wont get with most npcs. Lastly I tend to make sure that my dm pc dont overule the party.

[@thejapanarchocommunist]

You *can* make them work though. I picked up 5E last year and am doing a campaign that initially was designed for 1 player, my sister (we ended up getting more players eventually) however I wanted my sister to have more of a team so I whipped up several other proper PC characters (not knowing about the quick NPC build). The thing is, at the end of the day you absolutely can run a campaign with them successfully SO LONG AS you remember the PCs your players, and NOT your DMPCs, are the stars of the campaign; your characters should at most provide assistance when needed (and requested by the players) or provide flavor for the campaign you're in; past that the players should call the shots on what the party does. "Rule of fun" should always be the #1 rule you follow, and a big part of that rule is allowing your players the freedom to make decisions first and foremost.

[@shrapnelsponge]

I've only used characters with a party like a guide but they never participated in combat, mostly ran and hid somewhere safe. As a forever DM though, it would be nice to play for once...

[@jaredlocke4300]

I did this once because I had two friends who wanted to do a one shot and the party would have only been two PCs. So I played a character and ran it. It went really well. But I would never do it for a campaign

[@davidtays3625]

This few times we did a "The group is the Captain" in games, it always ended up badly. I think it's because there are NPC lives at stake and so people's tempers get heated when everybody has an equal share in the authority during a crisis. So for my groups at least we tend to choose a PC to be captain, and then handle power trips (if any, there usually aren't any) out of game.

[@Grizzledbum22]

I NEED TO BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU ALL RANT WHILE I WORK 😁 9min videos.... Sigh I love you guys stay safe

[@dangwancie4797]

I've been accused of having a Dm PC early into the campaign. But I felt the need (since he's a paladin) for his order (church of Heironeous) to send him on errands or commands. He currently is training cadets who later will be assigned as squires to knights to have hands-on experience. I've played dnd with plenty of NPCs who became friends with the party. We all have multiple groups of friends irl and that makes sense to have in my Campaign

[@jarydf]

Sincerely this is a beautiful video and love you guys and I am serious. Characters are best when they have their highs and lows. I am not there and I have not idea what is going on. I have been watching you for years and will continue watching you regardless it is obvious that there is sh*t going on. But just like a campaign you need to get your sh*t together and push through. This is not that hard. Nut up!

[@cyclone8974]

I played solo campaign with a friend for many years had npcs that were basically dmpcs and it worked great.

[@stephenclements6158]

The two of you have Big Brain Power, so I'm surprised that you can't or won't figure out why some gamers enjoy playing from a different persepctive. You've made it clear repeatedly that you don't like DM PCs and don't get them, so it is unclear what value a separate video on the topic will offer. I enjoy using them for a number of reasons, a few of which are: 1. while DMing, I get to enjoy the number crunching and character building that comes with most games; 2. the party has a perpetual helper around when they can't or won't help each other and that they can trust more than a random NPC; and 3. having a DM PC in the mix gives me a hook that I can cast at each player's character to give them a "partner in crime" to explore and advance their own PCs' storylines, as for whatever reason, the players I've seen don't do that for each other.

[@SDTCG]

Party NPC vs DM PC is a good way to distinguish them. I had great success running a Party NPC, but I've played in a game with a DM PC and it was absolutely the worst gaming experience I've ever had.

[@overryans]

I normally use my dmpc as a damage sponge if I can I have a zombie knight that privatized getting in the way of aggressors. I found out if you use a dmpc as a tool for the players to instruct its realy useful and encounters that would be normal too difficult for a group of 3-4 can now be done its a way for me as a dm to have more fun with encounters.

[@ultrapaladin]

I develop GM PC’s to become very well liked by my players. Then I like to kill them. I once set up a bonus arena session after seeing my players quite sad after a GM PC death-to boost RL morale. They eventually named an inn after him.

[@caosisaac]

I have a dmpc that ive run in my campaign settings that acts as the founder of the adventuring guild my players join at the start of the campaign. But ive given myself a strict set of rules i follow that makes him more like the captain you all were discussing. Rule 1: this is moreso a characterization but i made him a very emotionally stunted and unconfidant person. While he may weigh in on opinions he will never make a final decision for the group and i make doubly sure any information he does know is all he shares. The most i have him do is run an idea by players if a particular part of the session is dragging on to get their opinion on it. 2: all his rolls are public. Anytime i need a roll for him i make sure everyone in the party knows im rolling and that they can see both the roll akd the result. Funny enough depsite having above average stats (that i also rolled in front of players) he misses more attacks than anyone else in the party which went from a joke in our group to a legit concern in my dmpc's mind as he now takes his training very seriously. Rule 3: he is never alone. If he is going shopping or if there is loot to be had i make sure he sticks with the party and if theres anything i want for him (i also always use a random loot table for magic items so i can never plan for a specific item) i wait until the players have their pick of the litter before my dmpc asks if its okay if he can grab an item he may want. He never gets 1st pick to ensure fairness. If he ends up with a badass item its because thats what the players want. On top of that he is a monk so it is in lore for him to not be greedy for items and if i do add a specific magic item (say something an enemy uses against the party) it is not something a monk would have any real use for above anyone else. 4: hes only a dmpc during act 1 of my 3 act campaign as their fledgling guild gets bolstered with new facilities and members based on players wants and decisions. After that he semi retires into party npc status along with any other npcs the party recruited to run the management side of the guild unless players choose to bring him on a quest.

[@willowhealy453]

There was an old video where jim talked about a game system where they all had separate goals at character creation and were actively trying to deceive and scheme while doing dungeon delves, does anyone know the name of that system, he talked about having to give up a magic item to another party member in it for the example of a scenario that wouldnt happen in dnd