DNA Identifies Missing Great-Grandparents | Leeds Method Tutorial

[@hildyhogate8385]

I'm really new to this, and I haven't been able to figure out how to use your method! This example is SO helpful!! Thanks! I can't wait to watch the other videos you mentioned.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@hildyhogate8385, I’m glad it helped! Let me know if you have any questions as you work! 😊

[@rebeccamd7903]

This makes sense and I have done extensive research on Melungeon lines and various Appalachian lines using very similar techniques for close coupling but I have been stumped on my mother’s father since 2017. I even had her take a test and all I know is she’s 50% Swedish with no answer as to who her father actually is. I know he has 2-4 cousins in Sweden but that’s it. No clue who he was. I hope I can help her find them before she leaves this life. 🤞

[@DanaLeeds]

That's difficult! How much DNA do her top few matches on her father's side share with her? By the way, have you seen the new series on Netflix called "The Breakthrough"? I met Peter Sjölund at the FamilyTreeDNA conference in late 2023. He used DNA for the first crime to be solved in Sweden - a double homicide. I'm only halfway through, but it MIGHT teach you a bit more about Swedish genealogy! I do remember Peter sharing how wonderful their records are, so if you have some decent cousins, hopefully, it's easier to solve than you think, but you might need to hire a Swedish researcher. Here's a link to an article in People: people.com/the-breakthrough-true-story-8771820

[@sforman2911]

This is helpful! Can you do a case study where there is endogamy and/or pedigree collapse? I am hunting for my great grandfather and the area where the family is from is a rural farming community. None of the dna is simple on this side of the family!

[@DanaLeeds]

I do plan on doing some on pedigree collapse, since i have some on my mom’s side. I might do some on endogamy, too. Thanks for asking!

[@Meriko-i3v]

great video. Unfortunately, it's more difficult when you don't have big matches ;/

[@martiphone4884]

Having the same problem. Matches are in the low double digits, but only have 5 shared matches. :(

[@Meriko-i3v]

@@martiphone4884 glad to know that I'm not alone

[@emmagata]

If you click on "2C" you'll get the historgram which shows you where the 235 cms fall in the 52 percent group. 235 cms is right at the top of the curve.

[@DanaLeeds]

Hi, Emma. Great point! And the histograms can be very helpful. 🙂

[@emmagata]

@@DanaLeeds That's what I was getting at. On many of the FB DNA sites I belong to, too often people don't look at the histogram to see the details. It happens more often with lower cm matches. I wasn't trying to 2nd guess you. :)

[@DanaLeeds]

@, Great point! And I will make a video about it. I already have a presentation I gave in the past. And I actually misunderstood you! When you said “top” of the curve, I thought you meant top like on the right. 😜 No idea why my brain went there! You’re absolutely right and I appreciate your bringing up the histograms. I will edit my comment to you. 😊

[@shuttlepilot]

Another great vid, Dana. Always look forward to your posts.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@shuttlepilot, Thank you! I really enjoy creating these videos and appreciate the feedback. 🥰

[@Disblair]

Very informative video. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate your expertise. 😊

[@DanaLeeds]

You're welcome! And I appreciate your kind words. 😊

[@suzannechalifoux8587]

Thank you for this video. It was short but so clearly explained. I like it when showing examples that we can relate to our situation. I will do as you suggest by diagraming the clusters and then verify the cM with the DNA Painter. Thanks again! 😊

[@DanaLeeds]

@@suzannechalifoux8587, You’re welcome! And thanks for leaving a comment. I think diagramming is such a huge help! I couldn’t do what I do without it. I have another video that showcases diagramming if you want to see more: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnu2k4Oae7yYrMUsi=0DL194XS7Xq6EP-b Best wishes!

[@suzannechalifoux8587]

@ thank you! I also watched the webinar on Legacy Family Tree that you suggested in the video. Wow, what a great story and a lot of work too. And here I am thinking that my mystery maternal grandfather is hard to catch… 😂 My situation is that on the 2X GParent’s line, I have 2 sisters that married 2 brothers so it was not simple to split the network. So I had to do genealogy and got a big and wide tree but in the final I succeeded in putting every matches (400 to 90 cM) on the tree. Now I just need to diagram and verify everything!

[@DanaLeeds]

@@suzannechalifoux8587, I'm glad you watched and enjoyed it! I tease my husband of 30+ years that I'm glad I married into his family so I could have this great case to work on. 😂 And siblings marrying siblings does complicate the DNA aspect of our research! It sounds like you are doing a great job, though. And, yes, please diagram it and see if that helps! I find diagramming to be essential for this work. Best wishes! And thanks for sharing. 🙂

[@hildyhogate8385]

@@DanaLeeds Oh, great! I was just wondering if I really knew how to do the diagram myself. It looked so simple when you did it!

[@debwilliams611]

My understanding of your method grows, but my ability to execute is low, I use my mums Dna and im only looking on her maternal side, but when I narrow those fields my matches between 400 to 90 is only 17 and they are all mums 1c 1xremoved or 2x removed or 3x removed, only 2 people 2c and they are 83 and 81cm the shared matches with them each only have about 6 or 7 matches, my mum was scottish so dna matches are slim, can this still work for me? My mums paper trail does not match with herDNA matches. Ive done the genealogy but when we did our DNA it was all different.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@debwilliams611, Hi! This relates to my previous video about 1st cousins. I’d also talked about age in that video, though I don’t know if that applies here. But the older testers sometimes have the issue of the matches between 90-400 as all younger 1st cousins with various “removed” levels. The fewer matches, though, have to do with the Scottish ancestry. I would focus on the 83 and 81 cM matches and their shared matches - even though there are only a few of them. If you have the Pro Tools, you can see how they’re related. Hopefully you’ll have a few that are fairly closely related and you can figure out how they’re related. So that’s my recommendation! If age is part of the issue, could I use this as an example case of how age can affect the matches? If so, please message or email me. I’d keep everything private. Thanks, and hope this helps! 😊

[@debwilliams611]

@@DanaLeeds Hi Dana I emailed you.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@debwilliams611 Thanks!

[@mattpotter8725]

I'm new to the channel but have been doing genetic genealogist for a while, even using the Leeds method, and even though I don't have the same problem as you I wanted to go a little deeper back and get "sub clusters" of the 4 grandparent groups and so I've taken matches that are less than the recommended lowest limit so maybe you could try this because it is a bit hit and miss as to whether you get close enough matches to turn the groups using this method by the exact rules prescribed. I know there are reasons why the method is the way it is and as you get more distant matches there is more chance of overlap between groups, but if the ancestor isn't from the same area I've found that the majority of people don't overlap groups. I just thought I should add this as I try and add all my matches into groups where possible to maximise the number of trees to be able to look at.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@mattpotter8725, Thanks for sharing! And for watching & commenting! The main reasons I teach the range of 400 to 90 cM is because 1) it gives most people the best odds of seeing 4 grandparent lines and 2) when people go lower they often end up with so many clusters that they get confused and overwhelmed. But going lower, or even starting lower, can help you see different clusters of matches. For me the main thing to do with each cluster is to figure out what it means. I do this by diagramming and figuring out how the people in a cluster are related to each other & then how they’re related to me. Thanks again for sharing! - Dana

[@Lana._I_am_me]

Match #2 has Pearce on the maternal side and the MCRA on the paternal side. The shared cM is higher than the average for the relationship. It might be worth looking at the Pearce branch a bit more to find a 2nd connection maybe. Thank you for a good example to encourage us.

[@DanaLeeds]

I don't remember if I mentioned that other Pearce in the video, but I'm glad you pointed it out. I haven't looked at this other Pearce line in-depth, but some quick research shows that there isn't a very recent connection. There might be one quite a ways back, though. And you're welcome, and thank you for leaving this feedback! 😊

[@kathleenkelley1299]

Great case study. Thanks for sharing

[@DanaLeeds]

@@kathleenkelley1299, You’re welcome! And thanks for sharing. I love hearing that my videos and teachings are helpful. 💕

[@kathrynludrick4821]

Fascinating. Thank you!

[@DanaLeeds]

@@kathrynludrick4821, You’re so welcome! And thanks for commenting. 🥰

[@dragonflylady8031]

Hi Dana - I am a new subscriber but have known about the Leeds method for a long time. i didn't realize that you had a youtube channel and I am not watching your past videos. Your knowledge is invaluable. I am looking for a BF for my grandchildren's father (would be their paternal grandfather). Without the entire history, I am hoping that you can confirm something for me. I used the Leeds method (for the paternal line only) and came up with two clusters. Now, their father has a match of 801 cM (paternal) and I was having difficulty determining if this person was a 1C or half Aunt to their father. However, once I did the Leeds method, it showed that the 801 cM is related to both Leeds clusters. To me, this means the 801 cM is a 1C. Do you agree? I say that because if she were a half Aunt, then one of the clusters would be his paternal grandmother's line and would not link to the 801 cM match. Any insight would be very appreciated. Thank you.

[@DanaLeeds]

@dragonflylady8031, Hi! Thank you for subscribing! I just started this channel about 6 months ago, so it’s still pretty new. I’m glad you found it! I think you are saying the DNA tester is their father. If so, and you only sorted his paternal matches, these 2 clusters most likely represent his 2 paternal grandparents - but they could both represent one grandparent! So you’ll still have to do the work to figure this out. A paternal 1C would match both of these grandparents, as you stated. But, yes, a half aunt would only represent one. So I agree that is a more likely scenario. But there are still other possibilities. If possible, I’d look at the age of the tester vs this match. Hope this helps! That’s a great match and I hope you’re able to figure this out. 😊

[@dragonflylady8031]

@@DanaLeeds Thank you so much. Yes, I understood that the 2 clusters represent his two paternal grandparents and did the work to determine that each cluster represents a different grandparent and that's why I was like "oh goodness, the 801 cM must be a 1C not a half Aunt." Originally, I was leaning towards a half Aunt because he was born in 89 and the 801 cM was born in 1977, and based on the other matches, theoretically, the 801 cM could be either! It's been driving me crazy! lol I have solved other family members unknown parent and those were much easier. This one has been a real challenge. No matches respond and the ancestors are all from Mexico and my ability to read Spanish is limited. Again, thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate it so very much.

[@DanaLeeds]

@, I was partly talking that out to make sure I had it right in my head as I didn’t have paper with me. 😉 And as a teaching experience for others. You did a great job with this! And I’ve worked on a little on a few cases where records were in Spanish and found it difficult. Have you tried using FamilySearch’s Full Text search? I have a Livestream on that if you aren’t familiar with it.

[@byronquinley1400]

Might be a silly question. How do two documents list the grandparents but there are no records? What’s the difference? Records are government issued?

[@DanaLeeds]

@@byronquinley1400, Hi! I’m a bit confused. Did you mean parents or grandparents? And 2 documents listed William Emmitt Hunter’s parents: had 2 documents listing his parents: his social security application (which stated Thomas Hunter & Winnie Pierce) and his death certificate (filled out by his son which listed only his father, Thomas Hunter). Neither listed his father correctly; one did list his mother correctly, though she went by multiple variations of Winifred Artelia and it was difficult to find her. Hope this clears it up, and if I misspoke I apologize!

[@broughps]

Liked this video, but how do you break down an unknown parent when you don't end up with clusters or have a MRCA that's in the mid 1600s when your missing parent is late 1700s?

[@DanaLeeds]

@@broughps, Great questions! And that can be tough! When you get back far enough, you will lose traceable DNA from some of your ancestors. So you might need to work with other descendants. But I would concentrate on matches from that branch of your family. You also might use Y-DNA if applicable. I am working on a similar case and will share my work in 2025. It isn’t solved yet, but I will share as I work! Hope this helps!

[@broughps]

@@DanaLeeds - It really does help when we see the professionals working on a case and get the step by step. Can't wait to see how you work that similar case.

[@Disblair]

I don’t understand how a tree can be “Unavailable”, yet you can still access it, so clearly it is not unavailable? 🤔🤔

[@DanaLeeds]

Great question, @Disblair! I know you need to check because there are sometimes trees. But I don't know what this wording means. Let me look into it, and I'll get back to you! 🙂

[@davidk4869]

I’m very interested in this too. I’ve spent hundreds of hours reviewing tttees of shared matches and always skipped those that said tree unavailable. Are you just clicking on the words “tree unavailable “?

[@DanaLeeds]

@@davidk4869, No, I click on their name. And they don't always have a tree. But, sometimes they do! So I always check. 🙂 I hope you find some "new" trees!

[@UnbrindADN]

Hi Dana! Would it work to find an unknown 3rd great-grandmother?

[@DanaLeeds]

@@UnbrindADN, it’s a little different process, but it’s a start! You really need to find at least one good match that’s a descendant of your know. 2nd great grandparents through a different child than you are. Then work with the shared matches. You are trying to identify some matches who aren’t also descendants of the 2x couple or on “his” side. Then try to find a connection between the left over matches. Hope that helps! And I’ll be creating more videos, so stay tuned! 😊

[@UnbrindADN]

@@DanaLeeds Who would be "his" when you say "his" side? The good match found or the side of the known 3rd great-grandfather (as the brickwall his the spouse?) Can't wait to see you future videos!

[@DanaLeeds]

@@UnbrindADN, I'm assuming you know the 3rd great-grandfather, the father of your 2nd great-grandparent. So the "his" would be people related to his family - the descendants of his siblings, his first cousins, second cousins, etc. So related to the male part of the family, not the female. Hope that helps! 🙂

[@sleepdprived4193]

Can the range of cM for clustering be changed from 400-90cM? I'm seeking an unknown 4xGG.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@sleepdprived4193, You can go lower, it’s just that you start creating a lot of clusters. But, you can do that and then try to identify what part of your tree the various clusters represent. It doesn’t really work, though, that there is a certain range where you would find your great-grandparent clusters or 2x great grandparent clusters. Hope that makes sense! I’ll keep making videos and show how I’m working further back on my tree. 😊

[@jennifer255]

I've gone down to 40cM on my dad's side (his father's side is basically a huge brick wall). Sometimes, my dad, or my aunt will also have a match with a higher cM than the other (i.e., 66cM compared to 32cM). The problem on my dad's side is, his dad was the "youngest of the youngest of the youngest", so any cousin matches would be once, twice or three times removed (and possibly distantly related to his mother's side, too, if they're from the same region - a lot of Polish-Ukrainian matches are like this). I've at least been able to identify 3 or 4 possible groups (a Polesian group (mostly Northern Ukraine, some Southern Belarus, also linked to Lublin in Poland), Ukrainian group, Polish-Rusyn-Hungarian (the latter was a surprise) group, and Silesian-Czechia group). The Polish-Ukrainians seem to be on my great-grandfather's side, and Silesians possibly on my great-grandmother's side (partially with surname searches in matches, too).

[@kathyl2839]

@@DanaLeeds I too am trying to go back further in my tree, for 3X, so I'm looking forward to your future videos.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@jennifer255, That's a GREAT point that having a father who is the "youngest of the youngest of the youngest" will affect your results. And, yes, siblings will have matches that can be quite different in terms of cM shared and whether or not they're a match. It's a great reason to test and use the DNA of multiple siblings! It sounds like you have a difficult case! And I have never worked in these regions. I hope you make some real progress! 🙂

[@DanaLeeds]

@@kathyl2839, Great! And thanks for sharing!🙂

[@BonnyP-69r]

Regarding the ‘No YDNA’ comment. I would go back further than Willam Emmet, look for his father’s brothers. Trace all of the males until you finally find a pure male line descendant. I found a man in Perth, Australia by going back to a 1780 uncle and working back down. I offered to pay for a Y111 for him and bingo! Proved my grandfather’s daughtered-out line. It helped that I had my grandfather’s Y-DNA at FTDNA, being born 1926.

[@DanaLeeds]

Going farther back in time and finding a more recent descendant is an excellent strategy for Y-DNA testing. And congrats on finding someone to test! But my point, in this case, was that I couldn't test William Emmitt Hunter's Y-DNA to help identify his father because his 2 sons were deceased & they only had daughters. Now that I know he was actually born a Beddingfield, I could find someone to test that line.

[@kroo07]

Excellent

[@DanaLeeds]

Thank you! 🥰

[@feliciagaffney1998]

It's very sad your webinar is behind a paywall. I would definitely be interested in seeing it. I am not independently wealthy and cannot afford to pay for 50,000 genealogy subscriptions. The 4 or whatever I have stretches my income as it is.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@feliciagaffney1998, I do understand! And I do feel it is one of the best values out there, but I know genealogy can cost a lot of money. The Legacy Family Tree Webinar subscription is about $50/year, but they do have sales at $25/year. They just had one for Thanksgiving. If that might be doable, you could watch for a sale. And there’s lots of good content for free on KZbin and elsewhere. 🙂

[@feliciagaffney1998]

@DanaLeeds bummer I missed the sale. But thank you! I will keep my eye out for a sale.

[@DanaLeeds]

@@feliciagaffney1998, I hope they'll have one again soon! I'll send out reminders via my newsletter if you'd like to subscribe: danaleeds.myflodesk.com/

[@randolphfriend8260]

🙉 🎉

[@DanaLeeds]

@@randolphfriend8260 💕