Removing Spell Slots From D&D

[@DnDShorts]

Check out my upcoming kickstarter: Ryoko's Guide to the Yokai Realms! Sign up here to back early and get a *FREE* beautiful dice set when it launches! www.kickstarter.com/projects/dndshorts/ryokos-guide-to-the-yokai-realms-a-5e-tome?ref=d53ufn

[@t-mango2491]

This could be a stupid question, and I understand there’s legality stuff with the class, but does artificer use spell points like a ranger/ paladin, or is there another calculation?

[@vulcorethegreat1220]

Actually warlock with spell points works just fine. You just convert there slots into the number of points it would take to cast those spells at the level they are at. Exsample let's say the warlock has 3 5th lvl slots an a 5th lvl slot is equal to lets say 15 spell points converting all the slots to point give the warlock 50 spell points that comeback on a short rest

[@Pixel_XDG]

I may be dumb asking this, but at a table where warlock uses the old rules that have it a full caster with short rests restoring spell slots, (I could be wrong on this since I haven’t played a warlock since the changes, but couldn’t this spell point system work but just give the spell points back on a short rest for warlocks? I feel using the old rule set would make it easy simpler in that they restore their points in a short rest as well as long rest. Maybe I’m wrong here, I’ve only played a warlock for 1 one shot, and didn’t even get into a combat encounter, and this was before the warlock changes. But would this work?

[@zankou5611]

Warlocks: Thats Discrimination!!! 😂

[@t-mango2491]

@@Pixel_XDG pretty sure pact magic is what complicates it, because you get X amount of spell slots at X level, when translated to points it would give the warlock more spells per rest than intended

[@matthewkukowski4638]

Mana: “You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me.”

[@commandercaptain4664]

Spell slots: I can't physically throw up in my mouth... !

[@Tr0lliPop]

Ah yes. DnD now has the usual mana system. REVOLUTIONARY.

[@commandercaptain4664]

When it's D&D, it's RAW-VOLUTIONARY.

[@MaxxCoyote]

Right? God I'm so tired of blue bars or "Spell costs 347 points out of 741."

[@adamgerald849]

Yeah. Who cares. Spell slots work fine. They're the way they are so you can't spam powerful spells all day. It makes sense. If it wasn't that way everyone would just be OP casters. If you're a DM and want your casters to get more use out of their magic you can give them enemies that have weaknesses or something idk there are infinite things you could do without just giving everyone mana..

[@Tr0lliPop]

I never said that mana is a bad system. To each their own, I honestly like it. I just said that adding a mana system should've been smaller news tbh

[@bretginn1419]

​@@adamgerald849I'm on the opposite side. I hate spell slots with a passion and consider it worthless. I would rather have a standard mana system.

[@christopherkamph9147]

Now call the spell points by their true name Mana Go ahead, do it.

[@ThatOneGuy-iv9sn]

Lmao

[@christopherkamph9147]

;)@@ThatOneGuy-iv9sn

[@calamaricalamity6757]

NO!

[@CooperAATE]

Nah

[@juliannixon9734]

Agreed, seriously.

[@blauelilie2049]

I never thought I'd see the day a role-player is explaining the standard mana system to other role-players

[@libeflu]

"Except Warlocks! We will exclude them for being weirdos!" ~ the guy that came up with this probably...

[@NieroshaiTheSable]

"Except warlocks, we already gave them a spell points system by making them cast every spell at their highest slot!"

[@jeffreyquigley]

You can use the spell point system for warlocks easily. Just multiply their spell slots by their slot level's spell point cost to figure out their spell points per short rest.

[@vyor8837]

​@@jeffreyquigley but... They always cast at max?

[@jeffreyquigley]

@@vyor8837 yeah that's already factored in to the formula I mentioned

[@SuperNomega]

​@@jeffreyquigleybut if they always cast at max then there is no point to spell points.

[@ParlonsAstronomie]

DnD can be summed up by "why wouldn't we overcomplicate magic ?"

[@MaxxCoyote]

What's complicated about it? You don't even have to do math, unlike a mana bar. And let's be real, mana bars are just "Cast until you can't, then chug." It's not like people pay attention.

[@GewalfofWivia]

Because spell slots make it less obvious how weird and OP spellcasters’ scaling is😂

[@ZeNemtek]

It's actually slowly been made fat less complicated over the years. Check out had AD&D used to do magic systems.

[@arokan327]

@@ZeNemtek I still have the handbook here and had a good read a few nights ago. Man, this game has come a long way. It used to be way more complicated back then. :D I also suspect the game is still becoming less complicated. What you actually see is that many changes proposed for OneDND (hope that name doesn't stick) are the exact same changes that BG3 made. I suspect they're trying to use BG3 to get more people into playing D&D and Larian looked at the possible changes to come in order for BG3 players to have the most easy transition to the tabletop. Just my 2ct conspiracy theory.

[@dkcsi9256]

@@MaxxCoyoteYou’re saying you have to do math with mana bars, but also you don’t have to pay attention and thus not do math? You don’t see the contradiction? Also…spell slots is still math lmao. I don’t know how you figure that subtraction isn’t math so long as its single digits. So you should really prefer mana bars since…it doesn’t have math according to you.

[@phalamy9180]

Every road leads back to mana

[@Cornholio8787]

exactly my thoughts

[@NathanHedglin]

Yup

[@RubysWrath]

Mana in dnd would trivialize the magic. Because when you have mana you just spam one attack over and over and maybe occasionally utility or healing. It kills creativity.

[@RichardLeslieWhereat]

@@RubysWrath it kills creativity in the uncreative. It allows the creative more room for creativity.

[@FreshMint1527]

​@@RichardLeslieWhereatRestriction breeds creativity

[@felixrivera895]

I definitely feel like the Spell Points system is a Perfect Fit for the Sorcerer. They already do that a little with Meta Magic

[@pairot01]

They already have this with sircery point conversion

[@genghiskhan6809]

This literally is the gimmick of the sorcerer class.

[@kseide2]

My only critique about this video is the use of footage from the live action avatar movie. We’re not supposed to acknowledge the existence of the live action avatar movie.

[@zitro22]

It should be censored wirh Dragonball Evolution scenes but Goku should be censored with the protagonist from Netflix Death Note.

[@libeflu]

There is no live action Avatar movie in Ba Sing Se. @kseide2, the Earth King has invited you to Lake Laogai...

[@jodinsan]

​@@zitro22 I gathered the Dragonballs and wished that movie out of existence.

[@lucasramey6427]

I'd take live action avatar over legend of korra any day at least live action avatar respected it's source material

[@WinterWolf99]

​@@lucasramey6427no

[@anjunakrokus]

I specifically grant this to Sorcerers, combining the spell points with their sorcery points. It distinguishes the freeflow inherent casting from the more restrictive casting of Wizards, Clerics, etc.

[@pairot01]

Sorcerers can already do this by default. They can turn a highlvl spell slot into sorcery points and those into lvl 1 slots, or the other way around.

[@ppleberrynd]

@ pairot01 yes but it’s a lossy conversion, it costs 6 to make a level 4 slot but you only get 4 points by losing a level 4 slot. Also they can’t make slots above fifth level

[@genghiskhan6809]

I do this too

[@Jonesingaroundtown]

*cries in warlock*

[@anthonyrowlodge5357]

Try this method out. You start with 25 mp. You roll a d100 and d10 to see how powerful your patron is and that'll determine how much power you gain as you level. I've also tied MP to Constitution since in a way it is an energy source within the body and if it goes to zero you got a chance of being fatigued, staggered or pass out in the beginning levels. 1-25: 1d6+Con mod 26-50: 1d8+Con mod 51-75:2d6+Con mod 76-85:2d8+Con mod 85-95: 4d6+Con mod 96-98:4 d8+Con mod 99: 2d20+Con mod 100: 1d100+Con mod This can also be used for full spell casters to see how much the gods/universe likes you. Like with the lowest roll is like you're a commoner who was lucky they awakened some magic within you and the highest roll is you have been isakai'd into the world of dnd lol. To balance this out is that you don't have complete controll of your magic yet, so you can only cast spells at your level and if you try there's a high chance of if you fail, the spell doesn't work if your luck and at worse, it recoils and you're greatly damaged. You also need intelligence of at least 10 in order to memorize your spells incantations/spell components/gestures, so for all spellcasters/half spellcasters, intelligence is your spell casting ability

[@G.F.SF55]

Same ma bro

[@G.F.SF55]

​@@anthonyrowlodge5357oooohhhhh This is interesting, thanks!

[@RioDrake]

you could check out 5e Spheres of Power. Warlocks in that system have a lot more choice of what they cast and actually get to feel like a spellcaster!

[@anthonyrowlodge5357]

​@G.F.SF55 still working out the kinks of the mp cost for each level. Obviously as you level up every three levels you gain greater control of your magic lower level spells will cast less than original amount(think skyrim, just not 50% off right off the bat). So far here are the mp costs Cantrips:4 Level1:10 2:16 3:24 4:34 5:46 6:60 7:75 8:95 9:115 Now to actually help those who rolled the low to medium ends of the d100, when you reach level 12, the cost of level 8 and 9 spells decreases by 1/4th, 1/3rd by level 15 and by 1/2 by level 18. Cantrips at their lowest damage roll cost 1 point and only 2 addition points for additional damage die, level 1 to 3 spells cost as much as the original cantrip cost. So essentially by the time your level reaches to where you can cast meteor swarm, you can cast firebolt at 17d10(the level a socerer gains a 9th level spell) which is greater than the fire damage of meteor swarm, though meteor swarm is greater due to doing the same amount of bludgeoning damage) at less the mp cost. I've also changed up Magic Missile if you want to hear about that one and added a feat to spellcasters that make cantrips like firebolt and spells like magic missile to have to have a more devastating effects

[@Spook_dude]

Honestly, this makes so much more sense than spell slots.

[@cameronbird118]

this should just be how sorcerers work

[@NoBeanBurrito]

It sort of is how sorcerer works

[@rylog8]

The point costs are equivalent to the exchange rate for sorcery points. Very feasible to just add sorc points to the pool and just let Sorcerer use this rule. Would lead to way more metamagic use

[@techfoolcasey4348]

​@@rylog8 im not gonna leave the guys who invented magic,,and are likeliest to sweat small details , outside the point system. Nah. Id consider giving sorcerer a boost of spell points in casting lower level spells, especially ones that fuel their concept.

[@Regunes]

​@@techfoolcasey4348my homebrew of sorcerer is that they can learn an additional spell every other level if it shares a thematic with an already known previous one, DM's discrétion. That means if you learn darkness, you don't feel robbed of spending a precious spell level up on one of the dark tentacle or both phantasma Force l and killer options

[@brickmastere5535]

Laserllama’s Alternate Sorcerer actually does work off of a spell point system, I would highly recommend checking it out!

[@beastamer1990s]

*"Angry Warlock Noises"*

[@ZeoffArcaneOfficial]

Honestly in games that normally use spell slots, this system feels like sorcerers should immediately switch to this when their level two feature comes online. Makes them really distinct from wizards in that sweet spot way.

[@galmenz6118]

it is a very common homebrew to do that sorcery points also convert pretty neatly here

[@lordzaboem]

I would agree except that I don't hate Wizards enough to force the spell slot system onto them either. Spell slots are a relic of the 1st edition when Wizards had to memorize every spell and immediately forgot it upon casting. It's a balancing mechanic which is no longer needed, no longer serves any purpose, and os no longer desired.

[@lasersailor184]

IMO, the old system where Sorcs get more spell casts per day, but pick up spells later than Wizards is better.

[@wjackter]

Exactly

[@CrizzyEyes]

Honestly, I can't quite understand why you would want to do even more arithmetic for basic mechanics when D&D is already filled with arithmetic. This is actually more complicated than spell slots. Especially with the exception about higher level spells, and differences between classes.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Honestly I feel like this conversion should kinda just be how sorcerers should work. I hate how weirdly organized they tend to feel, and it should differentiate them from wizards. Plus, they can have bloodline spells be played with by using free metamagic or a discount to cast or something.

[@d73w80]

I personally really like spell points for sorcerers. Drawing on an internal reserve of amorphous mana sounds way more in line with their concept than having discreet quantum's of magic to use.

[@anthonyrowlodge5357]

It'll be more interesting if you tie it to Constitution for the early levels where if you reach zero, you have to roll a Con save to prevent from being staggered, or pass out since mana is a type of energy within the body since they don't have the more refined training that a wizard has gotten. And I'd give them more mana points due to practically being people with magic etched into their very being from their bloodline.

[@pizzaemperor3553]

The problem there is that spell points aren't equal to spell slots, and Sorcerer isn't weak. Sorcerer is quite strong, and all it takes to make them compete properly with the top 3 of Wizard, Cleric, and Paladin is 5 origin spells (not 10 like Tasha's, 5) and a small arcane recovery style feature around level 5 that gives them some sorcery points on a short rest. That is all they need. I've seen so many attempts to make Sorcerers spell point casters and almost every single one of them is overpowered, and the rest were either too janky or underpowered to use. And as for the Con casting idea, no way to balance that properly. Generally speaking, nothing in the game should allow increasing one stat to increase both your offensive and defensive power at the same time. The exception is Dexterity, and that's why it's the best ability score outside maybe Constitution. Allowing Sorcerer to be a Constitution will make them extremely overpowered

[@commandercaptain4664]

@@pizzaemperor3553 Frankly, only an RPG system that is point-based throughout creation should be trusted with spell points. D&D doing so is adorably naïve.

[@d73w80]

@@pizzaemperor3553 I don't run spell points on sorcerers because of balance reasons, I do it because it makes more sense with the fantasy of sorcerers. At least at my tables, there hasn't been any power balance issues with spell points, it just makes the sorcerer feel more distinct from other casters and fits the vibe

[@creedofwar]

This is my preferred system for Sorcerers. Just gives them a needed niche of casting more lower level spells. They can also drop a couple high level ones but that's similar to warlocks, though they can do a high and then back to lows after.

[@DnDShorts]

sorry for the lack of uploads last week, I picked up COVID on the way back from GenCon and was super ill. COVID in 2023, pretty cringe imho. (fr though it was awful, am on the mend now though and have some shorts premade I'm ready to edit and upload while I recover!)

[@leopavlov7165]

It's nothing. Hope you feel good

[@madmayhem2000]

How DARE you be very ill! 🥸

[@Theall-lightning-ni6xf]

Hoping you can take every rest you need before working in these vids 💪

[@jamesnoneyabizness5611]

*COVID?!?* In _2023!?!_ What is this - a *_FLASHBACK EPISODE?_* (Seriously though, get some rest and sleep, take care of yourself and all our best wishes for a speedy recovery!)

[@frankhults827]

Get well ❤️‍🩹

[@Abstract_CeeJay]

I’ll tell you right now, Spell Points rock as a rule. Like you said: greater flexibility in performing spells not just mechanically, but NARRATIVELY too!

[@LemonMoon]

Man’s really feasting on the optional rules in the DMG

[@AKNeal81]

prolly bc rules like these have been around longer than 5e has existed.

[@lordzaboem]

​@@AKNeal81underrated comment. Some users are calling this system "mana" from Magic: the Gathering, but I can trace it back as least as far as Palladium Fantasy in the mid-1980s.

[@salvadortoscano2534]

​@@lordzaboemI call it mana because every other fantasy setting that uses this stuff calls it mana. MTG has different shit with their mana system

[@oblivi8games808]

@@lordzaboem they aren't calling it mana because of magic the gathering, they're calling it mana because its an incredibly generic concept that has been in fantasy since long before the 1980s. Personally I vastly prefer spell slots to a mana-based system because they incentivize the use of lower level spells. When somebody can just spam fireball until they run out of mana, the game is a lot less interesting. A mana-based system gives more freedom, but that freedom comes at a cost. Mana or "spell points" spent on lower level spells are not being spent on more efficient options. By having spell slots of different levels, this opportunity cost is lessened and players are encouraged to use a variety of spells

[@garethmorris5605]

What page is it in the DMG??

[@alinkinthechain]

Did this already. Only difference is that I re-scaled spell points to be 1 to 1 with spell slots. This made it easier to pick up, and still gave a mana pool

[@herosam93]

Ran a game with that variant rule for a group ages ago, they stated that it was more fun that way. Look forward to when I can play with this rule set

[@Nicodemusqq]

been using spell points for my campaigns for a while and i love it. seems alot more realistic and "mana-y"

[@facelessnameless]

I like the resource pool idea better than spell slots. Choosing ahead of time what you want eliminates a lot of the possibilities that magic creates in the first place; unless you're a pro the point system is just more intuitive

[@koalabro6118]

yes because we needed to make magic even more adaptive and flexible, lest it have, like, even one or two downsides compared to the martials that literally have one shared gimmick with all the flexibility of a gorgon gazing granny.

[@facelessnameless]

​@@koalabro6118 you realize improvements to martials and to magic isnt mutually exclusive? Buff both rather than nerf one; it's a quality-of-life improvement

[@calebjones5843]

From what I understand, you still have a spell list, and can only know a certain number of spells, just no longer have spell slots. So you are still limited in what spells you can use at any given time, but now you don’t have to waste high level spell slots on spells that don’t scale just because you don’t have any spell slots of the lower level.

[@facelessnameless]

​@@calebjones5843It does sound like that, thanks for the clarification

[@lweaver2988]

​@@facelessnamelesshaving the exponentially stronger mechanic require decision making and consideration isn't a nerf. It's balance. And when you buff martials and buff spellcasters together the result is that spellcasters still blow martials out of the water. Rendering them secondary characters until the spellcasters are tired.

[@simonioos]

the problem is that they get way too many points when compared to the cost. (as a rule with how spell slots work, spell points need to have an exponential cost increase)

[@IronOgre]

To be honest, I've never seen a full caster at level 20. Do wizards usually have 10 9th level spell slots😅😅

[@filippogironi3456]

​@@IronOgreonly 1 per long rest. But still usually is more than enough to win a difficult fight

[@IronOgre]

@@filippogironi3456 Exactly my point, spell points mean you can cast a 9th level spell every turn and likely not run out before the fight ends. Spell points are cool, but it's definitely meant for players that want the pros of Wizarding without the cons

[@filippogironi3456]

@@IronOgre even with spell points you can only cast 1 spell of 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level. The main problem of spell points is that they give way more option for resource management for classes like the wizard and the bard that are already very powerful and for sure don't need a buff And I say this as a Wizard main.

[@IronOgre]

@@filippogironi3456 Yeah I guess I was being hyperbolic with my prior comment but the example stands. The basic fact of having no level one spell slots changes the caster game in such a dramatic way.

[@GrayvesX]

I feel like this would really suit Sorcerers and make them unique in one D&D

[@fin3662]

I actually like this way more, it feels more sensible, at least with the way I tend to think of magic, like it’s a pool you pull from sort of.

[@Morjixxo]

Yes but in practice you will use always the same spells, so the game lose variety

[@JakeBuilds]

It's an excellent change. I did this a few years ago and it's been a spectacular change.

[@OverlyEpux]

I do this but ONLY for sorcerer. Additionally, I let them use spell points for sorcery points. This way the sorcerer actually has a class identity vs the “gimped wizard” it currently is

[@anthonyrowlodge5357]

I'd give sorcerers more points since their very beings are etched with magic, while wizards, while skilled casters, need to channel the weave through them to cast their spells. In turn, since sorcerers don't have the refined training like wizards, I'd tie their MP to Constitution and if the mp reaches zero they need to do a Con save to prevent being staggered or pass out on a nat 1 in the beginner levels

[@landanheath]

I allow sorcerers to use spell points as sorcery points, but give all classes the option to use spellpoints as i enjoy the idea of mana instead of casts per day

[@ragnarbjarnason2386]

Considering their limited number of spells available, I'd say add the sorcery points to their spell (mana) pool. The wizard may have the best variety of spells at command, but the sorcerer has that sheer volume feel. Also metamagic making spells more expensive/taxing to cast is an interesting pressure for the player.

[@fashionsuckman4652]

Laserllama alternate sorcerer does this, you should check it out

[@blobjorn3248]

Sorcerers are a lot cooler in PF2e. They dont even need to use material components for anything (unless of course it has a gold cost)

[@SilimSavertin]

My group is playing in the Iron Kingdoms setting currently, which uses a variant on Spell Points. You count up to your level-determined limit instead of down, and once a day can "push" to generate more exhaustion points than your limit allows. The check is more difficult if you need more points. Failure knocks you on your ass badly, inflicting multiple levels of exhaustion, and even success has drawbacks. Really gives magic a nice, riskier flavor especially at low levels.

[@rexex345]

I love spell points, even if you're not gonna use it party wide, its always worth offering to sorcerers cause its clearly designed for them more than anyone and your sorcs will love you for it.

[@caiusdrakegaming8087]

Given what others have said, other than the once-per-long-rest restriction for 6th-9th level spells this is basically how sorcery points work. Hell they both can be abbreviated to SP, so does kind of feel like this system was meant mainly for sorcerers. Do find it weird that warlock can't use the SP system, honestly feel like they're gimped a bit much with the whole 'always cast at max level' bs on their spells. And if it's to balance for the invocations, then it's even more dumb because most of them that do affect a spell are for very specific spells or just EB, which is a cantrip and I don't think the SP system even gives those a cost anyways

[@ISayEssays]

I homebrewed this a little for my games, you get an MP dice that is the inverse of your HP dice and you add CHA as the modifier as I link ones mana pool to their spirit/ force of personality. A barbarian with a D12 Hit dice will have a D4 mana dice and inversely a wizard with a D6 hit dice will have a D10 mana dice. It gives the non casters a resource to spend helping the party recharge magic items or powering up the main cannon of their spelljammer like they were power rangers.

[@ghost_craftinganimates813]

They already do this exact mechanic in Star Wars 5e for “force” points and “tech” points. And it works very well

[@lordzaboem]

...and in Magic: the Gathering, and in Mage: the Ascension, and in all the Palladium Books games since the mid-1980s. I suspect WotC is only clinging to spell slots out of tradition at this point.

[@lordzaboem]

I didn't know about it working this way in the Star Wars game though.

[@nono-ch8oy]

Sw5e isn't made by Wizards. It's fan made

[@nono-ch8oy]

​@@lordzaboemSw5e isn't made by Wizards. It's fan made

[@rouxzes]

@@lordzaboem mage the ascension doesn't work like this, you don't need quintessence to cast. You can use it to cast if you need to for your particular effect but not for all castings (for M20 mage at least, idk about revised and earlier).

[@thereisnothing9165]

This is why in my homebrew D&Ds I just give a mana stat. Then I give spells a cost so my players manage it. Their spells are affected by their race/species, class, or special abilities. And it can even be used for more things like reinforcement or enhancement.

[@majingojira]

I appreciate the use of Runaways footage.

[@drydenhillvibes2263]

For a homebrew game I wanted to buff sorcerers. I gave them spell points, and made spell points also = sorcerey points. Worked pretty well

[@CreativeName574]

Honestly, gonna use this for warlocks too

[@spikegilfer1997]

Honestly, warlock is in the most dire need of this system anyways. Even if you just got one pact Magic Point a level and recharged a number of points equal to half and then your full Proficiency bonus per short rest it'd still beat out what we have presently. (PM Points would cast a spell of the same level, just as an aside.)

[@nh8489]

With Warlocks, adding this system in would mess up how their pact magic works. Warlocks are supposed to only have a few spell uses, because Warlocks fight very differently than other casters. 1. Their magic replenishes on a short rest. Part of why Warlocks get away with only having like 4 spell slots at any given moment is that replenishing their magic is far more convenient for them. 2. Warlocks rely heavily on their class features. Most warlocks don't rely on spells in combat because they have so few of them. Warlocks often use spells as a way to do a lot of damage all at once or to have a certain utility purpose. Warlocks primarily rely on their pact boons, invocations, and features from their subclass. This is one of the main reasons why Warlock class features are so busted Now, do I think implementing this for warlocks would break the game? Of course not. But it would undoubtedly make them quite broken.

[@skycastrum5803]

I mean, you could do this for warlocks. Just have all spells cast by them cost the same amount and boost mana (*cough* spellpoints, my bad. *cough) so they always have the correct number of casts. It wouldn't make any difference to gameplay whatsoever, but you could do it.

[@galletgaming]

Sorcerer crying in the corner: *signature look of insuperiority*

[@fenixmeaney6170]

This is how I've run every sorcerer I've ever played. I just dump in the sorcery points and stir. Because sorcerers are not about structured, rules based magic. When they want to cast a spell, it just happens.

[@Soraking007]

I really wish id subbed at the 1 dollar tier to get these after shows because dankpods ive realised has influenced how i think about audio and music and has inspired myself to try new headphones if i can afford them and also to learn the drums. Thank you dank for being a great channel and we welcome you back when your ready. Think i might sub still tho when you return

[@beastslayer8729]

Ah yes, just what everyone needed. A spellcaster buff.

[@bishop8958]

Doesn't have to be purely a buff, if you wanted you could use this system and just reduce the spell point total, makes resource management a lot more important for casters if they point have like 30SP to cast spells with. I've played in a game where a system like this was used with heavily nerfed max capacity, and it did a good job of putting the powerful casters and the enduring martials in-line.

[@kevinkorenke3569]

@@bishop8958 Another fun trick to balance the scales is introduce penalties/side effects for failed spells, like WFRP.

[@Random_Gamer-sh6pf]

I've been considering letting Sorcerers in my games use the spellpoint/mana system, or at least something similar, which would kinda be fused to their metamagic

[@StarKnight619]

yeah I use the Spell Point system because it feels more like Mana and to counter the Short or long rest I made a homebrew Mana potion that is basically a reskin of the Cure Wounds, though this mana potion is pretty expensive, like 10 gold for the base version

[@whoghostthere9664]

Wouldn't that make healing potions obsolete if your group has a healer? Low tier health potions are 2d4+2 healing for 50 gold. So your players could just buy 5 mana potions and spam cure wounds for dramatically more healing.

[@StarKnight619]

@@whoghostthere9664 Cure Wounds is 1d8+Spellcasting Mod (in this case it'll be just 1d8) and a Extra 1d8 per tier. So i'm not using the Health Potion which is the 2d4+2, I'm using the spell for the Potion. As for the cost i meant 100g not 10g thats my bad

[@cageduck2907]

My dm dose something similar by giving all casters 20 charges (one charge per level) as he added duels to the campaign which made casters pretty bad so a 1st level spell takes a fifth of a charge but they can get temporary increase in charge by events, items,etc Making them valuable in both normal combat and duels as a lvl 5 monk killed two lvl 7 casters in a duel he killed my war cleric and the wizard in less than 30min which made the monk lvl up the lvl 8 which went after our barbarian and three shot him

[@nabra97]

I actually have heard a few times that it would be fair to give to warlocks too, perhaps with some restrictions, especially if they don't have a lot of chances to take a short rest. But it's homebrew.

[@grey3318]

I use a similar rule like this in my homebrew game for spellcasters. Basically mana points. You get a max amount of MP based on level, and spells cost varying amounts. My spin is that you can use an action to regain 1d6 MP or bonus action to regain 1d4. This leads to spellcasters being incentivized towards using more big, cool spells, and not leaving them high and dry just using boring cantrips if they run out. It also helps balance the dmg divide with martial classes since spells can do more damage.

[@asumax8]

I love using the spell point system. I use it in any game I play or run

[@EvilExcalibur]

I did always love this system and have been wanting to give it a go for a while now

[@danielderamus9573]

It was cool when palladium did this 40 YEARS AGO!!!

[@lordzaboem]

Oh snap, you beat me by twelve hours.

[@lordkosta926]

we did this for sorcerers at our table - that honestly differentiates them enough from other casters and gives them a very unique feel

[@andrewthomas817]

I demand to speak to my patron. I want spell points to

[@JustOneEarth]

This is part of what made the playtest Mystic so good. The spell point systemis baked into how their powers work and it gives them absolutely incredible versatility and staying power. I played a mystic in a 1-20 (17 Wu Jen Mystic/ 3 War Magic Wizard) and loved him. Levels 5-10 were the sweet spot where it felt straight up OP. But after other full casters got level 6+ spells, it evened out or the mystic even fell behind, because nothing a mystic does is more powerful than a 5th level spell.

[@Aredel]

Kind of like mystics. Neat.

[@draco51683]

I actually played a homebrew in my last game with this mechanic. It was quite interesting, and made me think about casting spells and using my melee abilities. The class was a half caster, kinda like a paladin, and it worked pretty well in my opinion.

[@Eliza.the.Smithy]

Spell points are SO FUN! Enjoy! (:

[@Lord_Leech]

In one game I am in we don't have spell slots but roll to see if the spell goes off. we do 12+spell level and you roll a d20+your modifier like a spell attack to see if the spell gets cast. The DM does the same thing as well for NPCs and enemies. We do this since our encounters are all really strong and no one likes spell slots limits. I play a Warlock and this is really nice to do.

[@avonthefoxboi1391]

Simple: break the warlock spell slots down into their spell points, and let them downcast their spells that way

[@milesmatheson1142]

"All roads lead back to GURPS"

[@zuttoaragi8349]

Preeeeeetty much.

[@sucal4091]

I’m not gonna lie I thought this was how sorcerers work

[@Ailingstar]

Ive used this for 7 years. VERY powerful, my only changes were that I filled in the levels where the point system stagnates and I did give them the 2nd casting of 6th and 7th level spells at the appropriate levels. Yes, this system very much feels like a mana bar, but overall across multiple games it has worked wonderfully.

[@demiurge2763]

YES! FINALLY SPELL POINTS ARE GETTING LOVE!!! I LOVE USING SPELL POINTS, ESPECIALLY FOR SORCERERS!!!

[@wilmartinez1]

Castles and crusades has that option in the DM book years ago and I love using it and will incorporate it to all other games

[@andrewweirny]

This option would be everyone’s default by now if it were supported in dndbeyond. (Did they add it yet?)

[@nono-ch8oy]

They have it on roll20

[@discussionsanddragons9178]

ive been doing this for over a year and it requires a couple minor finicky tweaks with certain magic items and class abilities (i.e. ring of spell storing and arcane recovery), but it so worth that minor work for the huge increase in agency it gives players, especially at higher levels.

[@dungeondog4785]

I can’t wait for all of my players to use the most high damage spell every time until they run out of spell points

[@ap_trial666]

I mean you can put them in situation / are where their most powerful spell will backfire if they indeed use it, no? And if some still capable of use it anyway, it can come to the RP side of either it's that one pc's time to shine, self sacrifice, or straight out tomfoolery. Why so against fun mate?

[@fethdor]

Spell points are great. I loved them in the players option second edition books.

[@TheGreatDayne1983]

Unlimited (almost) Fireballs? What else would you ever even need to cast?!

[@valwenventureco9285]

shield and counterspell

[@commandercaptain4664]

Is that why it's called Fireballs and Some Other Rules instead of the Players Handbook?

[@TheGreatDayne1983]

@@valwenventureco9285 …..you disappoint me

[@genghiskhan6809]

Dispel magic

[@hungariangiraffe6361]

I'm playing a similar but different RP game and it's fun to see that DnD adopted this magic system as well. In that game, we call them Mana-points and they work with an entirely different logic than spell slots. You don't have to learn spells, there's a list of spells for every class that can use magic, and your character basically knows all of them. But you can't use them until you have enough Mana-points. So you can't use a spell that costs 45 points if your max Mana is 20. Also, the amount of Mana points you get and the way you regain them completely depends on your class. For example bards get Mana points based on their Intelligence. If your bard has 17 for Intelligence then you'll get 7 points on first level. But if it's only 13, then you'll get 3. And on each level, you'll get 4 more, it doesn't depend on your stats. A wizard however gets 10 points on first level, and 10 more on each next level. So on second, you'll have 20 points, on third you'll have 30, and the game carries on with this logic. And here are how classes regain Mana: Bards: they have to sing and play their instrument under the night sky. If they don't see the stars and the moons (for example because it'stoo cloudy), it's not working because they get Mana from them and they need direct contact. Wizard: meditation Cleric and paladin: praying to their god Fire wizard (not a subclass to wizard, but a totally different one): literally eats fire Witch (a unique class based on Intelligence and Charisma) and warlock: they drink a special potion they can brew, but it damages their health (kinda like energy drinks) Sadly, this game doesn't have sorcerers, rangers, and what I will never forgive for, absolutely nothing that even reminds you of a druid. But it's still a good game, the rule system is better than DnD. I believe that a mix of these two would be perfect.

[@APerson863]

Oh yes, casters definitely need more flexibility. It is not like they had enough of it yet

[@BrunoMaricFromZagreb]

This sounds SO much better!

[@Avunakat]

So, every caster becomes a sorcerer, got it.

[@aidencaterwall9146]

But better! And sorcerers get more points overall and can really go ham on metamagic without planning beforehand.

[@lordzaboem]

Other than the word "points" being there, this really isn't at all like the Sorceror's Meta-Magic mechanic.

[@Avunakat]

@@lordzaboem you don't have metamagics, so they are worse sorcerers.

[@jamoyothebadger906]

Also running a campaign on this system. Its interesting how it changes the fundamental way many casters play. Sorcerer in particular leans into metamagic more than before. Paladin just level 1 smites for days. I'm doing it in a super powered high fantasy campaign though, so the 6th level and above restriction is lifted. Gonna regret that I'm sure.

[@erlanddrow7950]

Imagine using this with Silvery Barbs 🙃

[@trappedinamerica7740]

Yeah you'd have to ban that crap.

[@6blazer]

In all my campaigns and ones I played in during the early 90’s spell points were used instead of the usual rules for magic. Even did early anime campaigns as well. Modified to our hearts content. Glad it is getting more attention.👍

[@mrex5769]

I implemented this exclusively for sorcerers in my game, I thought the flexibility worked really well with the flavor of sorcerer, the player seems to be having fun with it

[@Rhoasckm]

I actually did a campaign using this system playing as a Cleric and it was great, it really allows you to get creative with your spells. That said, it's not a flawless system. The whole back-to-back fireball thing can get a little crazy, but regardless I still think it adds a lot more fun and potentially allows the DM to get more creative with their monsters and resistances, considering the party doesn't have to worry as much about locking out a tier of spells because of slots.

[@nightxsabbath]

Doing this in a pathfinder game I'm running. No real restrictions on what level you can cast, but if you repeatedly cast the same spell over and over, it gets more costly to cast as the equivalent of magical static builds up in your body (which can be purged via long rest). Fireball, for example, is 3rd level and thus costs 4 spell points at first. If you're a prepared caster, like a wizard, each subsequent casting will cost the spells' level in more spell points. (4, 7, 10, ect.). For spontaneous like the sorcerer, the amount increases by 1 per subsequent casting.

[@azurasenpai3783]

Is that not too punishing of a cost? The increasing the resource cost by almost 50% just bc they go to cast it once more sounds way too taxing

[@riccardomarchetti1666]

Wow! The incredible and absolutly new mechanic of MPS!

[@neferatih]

One of my friends use a different spell points system for Warlocks which allows them to use more of their stuff and it's pretty cool. Take all your pact slots and the level of the pact slots, combine them and that is how many spell points you have. Each spell level costs an amount of points equaling the level of the spell. So Warlock can use more spells of lower levels this way without the punishment of automatic upcasting. Enjoy

[@EternalAzhrei]

Spell Points are the Best! I even used them to make my own Blood Mage caster class.

[@Hedgemonkey5]

I have used this system with the added feature of being able to use Hit Points in the place of spell points when you've run out. Each caster got 75% of the spell points listed, and had to dip into HP to reach their full potential. It was pretty intense.

[@TheUglyGoblin]

Ah brillaint! Yes! I made a homebrew class that used this system! I always see this way of casting as a much more lucid way of casting and see it as a great homebrew rule for the likes of a sorcerer to use. Characters who use magic it a more unconventional way

[@MatthiasClan]

Martial and Caster divide but use the variant rule that makes it 10x worse.

[@diay2064]

Not me as warlock being happy till the end

[@whouni]

Idea, what if you made a dnd Homebrew where everyone hade one single powerful but specific power, no spell slots but restricted use. similar to how alot of shows do it.

[@jaysw9585]

This was something first introduced as a players option for 2e in 1995. It would have been in the ADnD 3e, but when Wizards bought out TSR, they stayed with spell slots for 3e.

[@nthetiteGHOST]

Honestly, this would be cool to give to a specific class, like wizard, to help differentiate how they manage resources, as compared to how bards have inspiration, sorcs have sorc points, and clerics channel divinity.

[@Vareon-r1h]

FINALLY they have realize MP are a good system

[@Archermit]

I've never played a D&D game but I am hoping to get into a beginner game soon (thanks to a discord I recently joined. Since then I've been watching videos trying to learn things so that I am not a burden to teh DM and that I at least have a basic grasp. But whoo...there is sooo much to learn

[@emitrin24]

I created crusaders ttrpg originally as a dnd 5e modded. Spell points were the first rule I added and our players love it. Solo project so it’s still a work in progress but spell points are significantly better.

[@sarmeister1699]

Damn was actually going to try out my warlock detective again too

[@nomadrl91x]

I enjoy the spell points system. It essentially gives your game more of a later Final Fantasy games feel (6 and onward) where theres a proper MP meter. Or mana pool system from early diablo games.

[@arjenlaan4103]

I give them a much smaller number of spell points (just 1 per level). The point cost of a spell is 1+spell level, and recovering spell points can be done each round, as a bonus action, at a rate of 1d4 points.

[@Sovreign071]

I feel like a hybrid of this and the Spell Slot system would be interesting. Like, most spells would use points, but particularly strong or broken spells require Slots, to indicate the prep time to prepare casting it.

[@Virgil_Vincent]

This really makes for creative multiclass casters and absolutely makes the game so much more fun when granting non casters spell like abilities.

[@rodneyrossow]

We've been doing this for a few years and it works great.

[@AndrevusWhitetail]

Oh so it's like Casting Points in Age of Wonders! In that game wizards (and some heroes) have access to varying amounts of Casting Points (Wizards start with 20 and can get them increased by increments of 10 with Casting Specialist upgrades, a Casting Specialist enchanted hat and a Casting Chamber upgrade in a town for a total of 90 (in the second game and Shadow Magic) up to a total of 90, while Heroes start with 5 and get them in increments of 5 +Specialist hat, up to 50) and every spell has a set number of casting points and mana cost (like a basic fireball costs 9 mana 9 points to cast, UNLESS you have researched Channeller, which reduces all spell point and mana costs by 10%) It's a really neat, simple and intuitive system.

[@nickdejager8873]

I like this rule for more advanced or more video game like groups. But I generally ignore the limit on high level spells, other than ninth level. Because slotted casters would eventually have 2 6th and 7th level spell slots. And I've also considered a rule that lets casters use hit dice to recover spell points on a short rest, but haven't tried it with a group yet.