DNP: Not the degree I expected

[@daoistdansah54]

I am a second career nurse with baccalaureate nursing training at Columbia Univ. When I saw DNP programs popping up like mushrooms after a heavy rain, I was skeptical and early on, I saw this as a revenue driver for SsON. Fast forward 2023 - 2024, I have done all my coursework but I'm stalling out at the "QI project." I've been soul-searching this weekend and came upon your video. Decision made. I'm out. I turned 60 this year and honestly do not plan to teach (though at one point I thought I did). Will pivot to psychoanalytic studies, possibly MDiv. instead. Thank you for your candor!

[@petnights]

You are always dead on. Keep educating us. This was very informative!

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Thank you very much! I am happy if my ramblings help in some way!

[@ChellyC.]

I'm currently a PhD student and it has crossed my mind sooo many times if I should stop and get a DNP instead. But I truly love academia and I feel like my research is important (don't we all lol). So happy I came across this video. Thank you Dr. Martin!

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Good for you! The truth is, the DNP hasn't become what it was hoped to be. Your PhD will be a proud achievement! Best wishes!

[@bobkennedy6382]

Thank you, Will! As always, great video! My gut feeling was right - go for PhD. , not DNP. Cant wait to start!

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Hey that's great! I hope you have the chance to do your coursework in a face to face format. It makes such a difference to do it the old fashioned way, even though it's less convenient. Let me know how it goes!

[@MNP208]

Honestly, the BSN wasn't worth my time either. I went through a very good ADN program (with a prior Bachelor's). My employer paid for the BSN, so I completed it. It was basically a repeat of my ADN (I wrote more meaningless papers). Nobody in my city earns more having BSN. This year, all of the local health care systems are removing the BSN completion requirement. I'm not sure if this is because of staffing issues or money (not wanting to reimburse).

[@TomBreazeal]

Great video. Did not expect such honesty (it's the first video of yours I've watched). I'd love to chat and hear your thoughts on CAA's. I'm a first year student and CRNAs try and limit the states we can work in.

[@milonipatel8534]

I could not agree more. I figured it was because the schools want more money. For my program they make us take the DNP classes before taking any masters FNP classes… waste of time. Thank you for teaching me how to write a paper that will not really help me in practice 🙄

[@donnatirino3987]

Hi Dr. Martin, Great video. I am an RN with 33 years experience just finishing my BSN (2nd bachelor's degree). I am researching my next steps. The NP programs I have contacted in NY are phasing out the MSN-NP programs as they are saying the DNP will be mandated by 2025. Admission advisors are quick to point out you can also teach as a DNP prepared NP. So I guess if NP is one's path there is no way around that? I am also considering a MSN in Education also as I know there is a great need for nursing faculty. The PhD seems a daunting task while working full time but it is something I am intrigued by. I am discerning how I can best be of service at this stage of my practice.

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Thanks for commenting! I think if teaching is really your passion, you will ultimately benefit from the PhD. But what really matters is what type of educator you are. I don't care what degree you have, if you're good, you're golden.

[@ec2749]

thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts regarding the DNP. Humility is something thats seems lost these days. You can be proud of whatever accomplishments you have earned but some serious self reflection would certainly go a long way for many people.

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

So true. Humility makes it hard to produce videos when my instinct is to just sit quiet and keep to myself.

[@michaelmistric]

Not long after I finished my PhD…a nurse faculty from UT in Houston attended a NP dinner meeting. I remember she was given to floor to announce the UT DNP program. One of her selling point which I found utterly disgusting was that just think, you can receive a doctorate and not have to do a dissertation!’ Many in the audience broke out in cheers!

[@daoistdansah54]

Amazing,@michaelmistric!! I was in a Zoom information session before enrolling in my DNP program - one of the prospective students actually asked "Do we have to write a lot of papers?"

[@shanapeterson5429]

Ppl need to research n figure out what kind of nurse they want to be first. Then, choose a education path. Most nurses dont.

[@chinneynz7861]

Thank you so, very much, Dr. Martin.

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Thank you for watching!

[@Brandon_Hawk]

This was really helpful! What are your thoughts on the Ed.D.? I have a Masters in nursing education and now I’m contemplating between the Ed.D and PhD.

[@MNP208]

Why are chiropractors called Dr?

[@joemal4207]

Yes. It lost its way and value.

[@rizzo3170]

I have flirted with the idea many times of going back for the DNP --- but during my MSN, I completed a thesis --- I cannot bring myself to go back and do more writing after that. The DNP is just not worth it. It does not bring anything to my business. It really would be just for the three letters, and I don't think I am going to teach. So why would I do something that is just another degree that is based on EBP and tons of writing?? Nope.

[@mehsenibrahim7180]

but why it is mandatory for all CRNA schools to have completed transition to DNP level by 2025. What is the purpose behind it? Or what is that addition of the DNP to the program. knowing that the MSN route is still the most common pathway for nurses who are willing to do postgraduate degrees. Secondly, watching your video has made me re think of being more aware of this DNP nature and its outlook. Thank you very much.

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Thank you for your thoughts! Are you doing the CRNA? I'm quite envious! That should've been my plan, but I opted for the NP. Since I was an early adopter of the DNP, I can say it did not evolve in the way it was intended. It is now a revenue generator for schools, a way to charge a few more credit hours to achieve the same end-goal. Our nursing leadership drinks from the same vat of kool-aid, so no changes on the horizon..unless they see the decline in enrollment, which is currently happening.

[@passion5554]

Hey, I'm currently a senior SRNA thats about to graduate. I can tell you a perk with SRNAs getting their DNP is more clinical time that prepares you better for the real world anesthesia. But I do sometimes wonder about the necessity of the DNP research courses...

[@martinsulkowski1060]

Do you think the dnp is less rigorous and worthy than a PhD in arts like sociology, public speaking, humanities etc? Great talk, I'm tossing np vs dnp now

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

In my opinion, there is no similarity between the DNP and the PhD, and that's taking into consideration I did my DNP back in 2009 when the few programs around were much more rigorous. The PhD is more challenging from a workload standpoint. More reading, more writing, and more is expected of you. Your writing skill has to be very good..if it isn't, it will be by the time you finish!

[@Jayjay-311]

Man I wish this video was out before I started my DNP program. I’m in year 3 of 4. And I do regret it. Waste of my time

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

Not your fault. Many of us have been sold a degree that isnt what it seems to be.

[@Maje0823]

4 additional years after the completion of the NP degree?

[@Jayjay-311]

No. It is a part time bsn to DNP program

[@adamdashawn]

I personally think nothing of a DNP. It has become too common. Which, lessen its appeal to me.

[@DrWilliamMartinPhD]

I agree with you. Maybe the intent was always to "mass produce" DNPs. I tend to believe that now, looking at the revenue it generates for schools.

[@yhu4455]

Everything you've stated is the Fact!!! Dnp is simply a wasted of your time and money. I got mine in 2019. I don't consider myself a doctor...but one time someone said you're a Nurse Doctor (whatever that means???)...

[@littlenovablue]

This is not informative. And devolves into a rant putting down nurses with doctorate degrees who (correctly) call themselves doctors.