Do Christians Harm LGBTQ+ People? | Progressive VS Conservative Christian (Part 3)

A progressive Christian and a conservative Christian conclude their conversation on God, the Bible, and human sexuality. Can they overcome the stigma and speak to one another with understanding?
Conversationalists include:
@colbymartin: / colbymartin
@profstrachan: / profstrachan
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[@anchorednorth]

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[@raphaelakizil1671]

the conservative talks scripture, the progressive talks feelings

[@cockroachv]

Our heart and feelings are the most deceptive things. This is why need the solid guide of the Holy Scripture to lead us.

[@dhowa862]

Except for when he said God doesn’t love everyone. He lost me on that one.

[@NitoLFC12]

@@dhowa862 he explained it though

[@raphaelakizil1671]

@@cockroachv Amen

[@EsiriE]

That's how you know my friends, thats how you know 🥴

[@carolinebevans]

“it’s not God as I want him to be. its God who He is” wow POWERFUL. that says it all

[@tjbiging6498]

@Richard Fox the fact that you see issues in the world and automatically associate them with God shows you don't understand who God is

[@JoeySatriano]

@Richard Fox Your questions assume that God sees the world the way you do. Your superimposing your view of justice on His. The bible says we are the clay and He is the Potter, and who are we to question His ways. In that context, your concerns don't even make sense, because the created can't see the world the way that the Creator does. "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

[@patrick5284]

So true. That was a very powerful insight.

[@dianebice9103]

So much talk about hell. But I find that concept completely preposterous.

[@vanessaingersoll7140]

@Richard Fox you’re so deep lol

[@carolinec.1743]

This dude literally just said “belief is not required to be a follower of Jesus” ☠️

[@tnewz411]

Wow...that's truly scary. He's leading a congregation of people to a very dark pit.

[@mason4966]

I mean it doesn't have to be. There are religious people who are atheists.

[@hypnoticsounds1040]

@@mason4966 ??? What the heck you talking about

[@andrewbradley3305]

@@mason4966 They are not Christians

[@rossbarrett9103]

You never hear true conservative Christians debate these topics. Wow, Owen brother God Bless You for not being afraid of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[@PureEntertainmentAZ]

James White, Jeff Durbin, Dr. Michael Brown, Douglas Wilson, John MacAurthur, John Piper.. and so on and so on.. need I list more? Hah

[@franco634]

and God bless Colby for speaking truth to lies.

[@daltonadger6489]

@@franco634 you got that backwards brother. He speaking lies to truth. And ironically making truth claims while rejecting any standard of truth.

[@franco634]

@@daltonadger6489 Brother you have that backward. In fact Colby knows far better what the truth is. Jesus did not preach hate against at least ten percent of the population. That came from bible fabrications. Jesus taught love. Get with it .....brother.

[@franco634]

@@daltonadger6489 How do you distinguish between truth and non truths in scripture? Just curious. Or do you just conveniently believe those glaring contradictions?

[@hereforthecomments555]

"If you love me, you will obey my commands" John 14:15

[@ajfet8165]

Look at what all those freaks are peddling out of their fake lordy lord mouths it’s so funny !

[@cadenphilley9728]

The commands: "love thy neighbor as thyself and love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind"

[@franco634]

@@cadenphilley9728 In the eyes of Jesus these two were exactly the same. Amen brother.

[@franco634]

Paul took this from Jesus. It is all summed up by Romans 13 8-10 LOVE FULFILLS THE LAW "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.9 The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not covet," and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. This tells us everything we need to know.

[@franco634]

@@cadenphilley9728 Absolutely correct Caden. Jesus said they are equal. These folks don't seem to get that. I particularly love what Jesus and Paul both said. It is all summed up by Romans 13 8-10 LOVE FULFILLS THE LAW "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.9 The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not covet," and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

[@ljpikeaep9939]

"to me...... to me....... to me...... i feel like......" See the problem here?

[@TheSacredlizzy]

Yep. WHAT DOES GOD SAY

[@HarrisonBurnette]

well said

[@Mikeawave]

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

[@ljpikeaep9939]

@@Mikeawave your use of an absolute statement must mean you are, indeed, a sith.

[@grayndrob]

Yes! Amen!

[@i1945us]

If being gods image was enough we wouldn’t need Christ.

[@jaredfleming9967]

Huh?

[@El_Pimpin_Shizz]

We are made in his image as in our faces,hair, facial features, etc... is all a product of his mind that he used when making us. Since he created us he thought and thinks of what we should look like which means we are made in his image

[@jaredfleming9967]

@@El_Pimpin_Shizz oh no I know and understand what it means when it says we are mad in Gods image but him saying we wouldn’t need Christ is like saying children don’t need parents

[@El_Pimpin_Shizz]

@@jaredfleming9967 oh ight thought u meant somethin different

[@jaredfleming9967]

@@El_Pimpin_Shizz oh nahhh I am a Christian myself

[@meadowlove822]

A standing ovation for Prof. Owen Strachan. To have such meekness, patience, and a humble way of speaking the truth was amazing. I had no idea that he was working hard to maintain that until the end

[@camerong5513]

maintaining the sale of his absurd books - that's the truth

[@Mandy-nt2cs]

​@Cameron G Your so confused. I'd bet my life's savings.. which isn't much & desperately needed as a recently widowed momma of a toddler with rent that has increased thanks to Democrat rule & this God Forsaken economy we are suffering from Democrat rule.. I'd bet my life's savings that I could prove wrong, with facts.. everything you believe in 10 mins time about Our society.

[@paulcummings287]

@@camerong5513 it appears that logical and rational thought are no match for your feelings I guess...

[@camerong5513]

@@paulcummings287 sure paul

[@paulcummings287]

@@camerong5513 solid comeback there sir.

[@aileenprestan1823]

"I can't yoke together my christianity with any sin pattern, anything the Scripture calls evil"

[@trentonmabry8189]

“Jesus never said believe in me.” -Colby “Unless you believe that I am He you will die in your sins” (John 8:24)

[@confusedpretzels]

much like passages from the Bible, you are quoting this man out of context in order to prove your own feelings true

[@matt2.019]

What this means is that radical love and self-sacrifice, of which Jesus is the archetypal example, is the path to bringing about the Kingdom of God.

[@mason4966]

Yeah but anyone can write that anywhere it's not really an impressive statement.

[@Mandy-nt2cs]

​@@confusedpretzels It wasn't out of context at all. That's precisely what Colby said.

[@memosfrommomo9889]

Owen displays the patience and self-control of the Holy Spirit. It's good to be humble in the face of someone without understanding of the truth, because the only reason we ourselves know the truth is because of the grace of God. A big takeaway is what Owen said about believing the wholee picture of Jesus in the bible, as very often ppl pick out only love and compassion and refuse to acknowledge his condemning of what is wrong.

[@eldotjay]

Do you mean Owen? Owen is the shorter guy. Colby is the taller guy

[@memosfrommomo9889]

@@eldotjay ahh oops! Yes lol, thanks for correcting me🤭!

[@J316Ministries]

That is an extremely awesome point.

[@brittanycanuto1387]

If we reject God’s grace and mercy we receive His wrath. Well said sister. I believe Owen did this gracefully as well.

[@giavannam.french9285]

It's amazing that one of the most beautiful exchanges we see in scripture between Jesus and the woman caught in adultery include a rebuke and a restoration in one phrase: "Go and sin no more." Modern Christianity appears to have rejected the entire command of Jesus.

[@billievm5236]

I love that this was a civil conversation and you were both very respectful toward each other. I also love, Owen, that you gave Biblical truth in everything you said, even the difficult parts that he didn’t want to hear, and you shared gospel with him. ❤️ Wow. 👏🏼 This was amazing.

[@franco634]

Biblical Truth is an oxymoron.

[@camerong5513]

bull 💩

[@franco634]

@@camerong5513 So I take it you aren't Christian? If you were you would know how to treat others. Just another phoney.

[@camerong5513]

@@franco634 (stupid) questions asked and answered. ha, sorry i bruised ya fragile ego

[@roylogan3327]

@@franco634 you mean by oppressing those who are different, talking to them and acting like I'm better than them, and telling them that they are evil people who should be treated like subhuman scum that shouldn't have rights and will/should burn in hell?

[@Lordpraisethe]

Yeah...I dont think the progressive one is christian. He thinks he is but hes not. If he disagrees with majority of the bible, I think he needs to reevaluate what his ideology is.

[@EsiriE]

💯💯💯 he can say he's "Christian" because lowkey everyone is nowadays but he's definitely not born again. That's evident. At this point progressives should just write their own bible. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@AnniEast]

@@EsiriE well, they are actually planning on doing just that, lol!

[@EsiriE]

@@AnniEast 😳😳😳🤦🏾‍♀️

[@Kattchatt]

@@EsiriE they have, they're called the message and passion translations.

[@EsiriE]

@@Kattchatt 🤣🤣 nah those don't condone LGBTQ

[@eldotjay]

Also Colby, I think it’s worth pointing out that *not every human is a child of God.* We are all created in his image, but we _only have the power to become Children of God_ if we receive Christ, believe in his name and follow his commandments John 1:12

[@crystala8020]

Hence the reason we have to be born again!

[@kamarwashington]

Amen! It bothers me sometimes when people parrot that point.

[@EsiriE]

Owen threw me off guard with that comment then I thought about it and saw your bible verse then realised he was indeed speaking facts

[@eldotjay]

@@EsiriE glad I could be of use sis. It’ sounds harsh but there is a difference between being God’s creation and being God’s child.

[@eldotjay]

Also Colby, I know you read the comments and I do enjoy engaging with you so hope you come across this. You make a point that “if it isn’t _grace for all, then that is not grace at all.”_ What I think we need to remember is God’s grace is made available to _all._ But no one can be _forced_ to accept God’s grace. That isn’t loving to *force someone against their will to accept your love.* In our culture that would be seen almost like sexual harassment! God really does love all humanity, but he would never *force himself* on us against our will. That would be the most _unloving_ thing to do. Ironically that’s what it seems you’re advocating for.

[@jeanj753]

Colby says the bible is unreliable, contradictory, confusing and the only way to know God is Jesus. I wonder how he knows about Jesus apart from the bible?

[@kimsteinke713]

The historicity of Jesus go read the scriptures and everything we've got from the ancient scribes the Canon especially arianism Judaism the to knock the talmud you have to read everything and then read read and then you realize it's we're only men creating what we interpret are God heavenly father to be and it wasn't always even that way history is always changing if you don't understand history in the context you're not going to understand the Bible or its meaning or it's possible literary Worth or either it's myth or poems think think once twice three times four times think think don't just follow one style of teaching investigate as if it's gold

[@rdrift1879]

@@kimsteinke713 Kim, it is not a sin to write using punctuation.

[@wishyouthebest9222]

@@rdrift1879 Bruh... 🤣. That got me good! I was in a bad mood but this helped a lot. GOD bless you for making me laugh

[@caIvinfun]

Probably through prayer. Like how Jesus knew His Father.

[@judgedredd31]

@@caIvinfun well being God helped too probably

[@carolinebevans]

did i just hear him say the Bible is “insufficient and unreliable” omg

[@annewells2306]

And yet to him it is reliable in the parts he wants it to be reliable. This is playing God. It breaks my heart. I pray Colby's heart will be softened to Truth and his eyes will be opened.

[@williamdodson6681]

And he has a congregation 🤔

[@markshaneh]

@@ontology1239 God also gave us the bible so we could avoid and be able to recognise the fake teaching of man made vanity ideologies such as what Colby is trying to peddle. And as you believe why if we can’t trust that God can’t use and speak through and maintain truth through people, why should we listen to Colby or for that matter even you 🤔

[@apocalypticlove]

@@ontology1239 the Bible isn’t unreliable. And there are many books written outside of the Bible that are just as important. Translation can always be tricky. So if one were to look at the original Greek context and translate it, they could. The Bible is written by people that God specifically chose to do so. God wouldn’t have allowed it to exist and be passed through the years as such if it didn’t have truth.

[@apocalypticlove]

@@ontology1239 I would not be the only person to believe the Biblical stories to be actual truth of circumstances that took place and that belief doesn’t make me “not the best person” and the Bible doesn’t promote slavery. The term in Hebrew “ebed” translates as someone who is dependent on another for work. Such is a servant. Such is anyone who has to work and is a “slave” to money. And as far as homosexuality goes, saying that a man shall not lay with a man and a woman with a woman doesn’t mean it has homophobic context.

[@LaurenFrancesHair]

“I said you can’t be right, that doesn’t mean you are wrong.” Absurdity of post modernism

[@mk14ist]

To me, it appeared quite wise actually. The interpretation of the bible has changed a lot, throughout every century of the past 2 milenniums. Why would us Christians have it exactly right today?

[@rob2250]

@@mk14ist On what exactly? Give an example of what you are referring too? Just wondering

[@rob2250]

@@mk14ist I hope you’re not trying to argue for individual relativism.

[@mk14ist]

@@rob2250 celibacy for priests wasn't in Christianity for over a millennium, slavery was commonly considered to be accepted by the Bible for over 1500 years, women having the same legal rights as men was considered wrong based on the at the time biblical morality. All these have changed (for the better I hope you and I agree). To me changing the stance on LGBT issues is the next step to becoming the right church of the loving, just God

[@mk14ist]

@@rob2250 I'm not familiar with the term haha, I got some reading to do

[@markteter342]

“There is no way you are right doesn’t mean you are wrong...” 🤣

[@idkhippo]

It broke my heart when he said “if it’s not grace for all, it’s not grace at all.” To me, that all or none logic is like saying “if you can’t buy food and shelter for every person who is homeless, why buy food or shelter for any?”

[@bendaniels2726]

The dumb thing about his statement is that it is grace for all if you accept it and repent of your sins.

[@chrissan2457]

Michelle Bell.There IS Grace for All.John 3:16.It up to each individual to accept it.On God terms and no our own. That's what Lordship is about.Beard guy is a False Prophet period.

[@mysticheathen3455]

It's more like "if you choose to only help some homeless people, you don't truly care about homeless people".

[@sivad1025]

^^^ Totally agree with the responses. Grace is an offer of forgiveness, not forcible mind control. It _is_ grace for all and part of that grace is the respect of the person's choice to reject it.

[@joannajett2524]

Do you mean to say God can't give grace to all ? I thought God according to Christianity was omnipotent...?

[@hisdaughter8580]

I am literally in shock at this. Does this man even read the Bible? He is all about his feelings instead of what the scriptures actually say.

[@willjapheth23789]

Reading the Bible is a great way to see how detached from reality alot of conservative Christian thinking can be. And also knowing the people conservative Christians tend to hate helps too.

[@janyia3388]

It makes me sad that he is a leader of a church😳

[@jeanj753]

@@willjapheth23789 Could you please offer some examples on this? I am genuinely curious on what conservative Christians would be detached from.

[@willjapheth23789]

@@jeanj753 literally believing the 6000 year old earth and the flood. And how their God is loving while excusing mass killing and slavery and executions for stupid things like picking up sticks. Somethings about hell I don't recall. It depends on the conservative. Some take a random verse and just run with it. Or read way too much into a verse, or change or ignore its context to fit their theology. Blah blah. The loving God that seems to like killing in the old testament and damning in the new testament is the main one that irks me. It varies alot, but I've heard some people say whacky stuff and they seem to be kinda common.

[@robertradillo6363]

It just broke my heart at 26:56 . John 1:1. I don't know how this Pastor can say these things. GOD is not unreliable

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

At 30:28 is Owen's mic drop moment to Colby...at the end of the day, Colby has set himself up as his own god and standard of truth. It doesn't matter what the truth actually is, for Colby his own presuppositions and emotions lead his definition of truth.

[@th6252]

Exactly this. I’ve watched the other videos between Owen and Colby as well as the discussion Colby had with Sean McDowell and you can see one of his biggest problems is he doesn’t believe in the inerrancy, infallibility and sufficiency of Scripture as is with most other progressives. Once you lose that authority, you become your own authority and god.

[@chrissan2457]

Amen

[@TheTicktockman321]

That in 24:22. The arrogance of Colby is astounding.

[@bigfootmobilesystems8981]

Yes. This was the essence of the argument by the “flimflam “ man. You can never know the truth but let ME help you get there. These kinds of people have ruined my daughters clear understanding of God and especially the man, Jesus Christ.

[@boozoochamp]

@@th6252 lol you guys have this so wrong

[@divyaruth3563]

What a low view of the Holy God! What a low view of Scripture! What a low view of the severity of sin and the separation it causes!

[@EsiriE]

Preach 💯👏🏾

[@duncescotus2342]

I would argue that exact same thing. That conservative guy has got to up his game!! What a Pharisee.

[@franco634]

@@EsiriE Being gay is no more of a sin than being black or having blond hair and blue eyes. It is simply who a person is. All those haters out there should redirect their hatred and ignorance.

[@franco634]

@@duncescotus2342 He certainly does. Right now he is sitting there looking all pissed off after being left with egg on his face.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@franco634 Well, as sympathetic as I am to your point of view, brother Franco, I have to translate all things to Christianese, providing Chapter and verse, organized "hermeneutical" arguments, and just about all known knowledge available to convince these Calvinists! Now I have not done that here, but trust me I can. Now trust me, don't dare me, anyone. I'm busy right now!

[@Mermayydman]

The "progressive" dude doesnt serve the same God as Christian's who adhere to biblical teachings and Gods sovereignty

[@tnewz411]

@some dude...I agree with you.

[@J316Ministries]

This is so tragic. He is so lost and in need of God’s amazing Grace. His entire life is built on shifting sand, on his emotion and his opinion. The man without the Spirit CANNOT understand the things of God.

[@Mrsgeckofreak1000]

"Tragic"... that is a perfect word for this. 😢

[@mariek1752]

You mean like all humans?

[@J316Ministries]

@@mariek1752 like all outside of Christ.

[@ajfet8165]

What’s ur favorite Bronze Age sky daddy fallacy to spew? Ad Hominem: Non believers are stupid Affirming The Consequent: A flood actually happened, so the bible is true Appeal to Fear: If you don’t agree you will go to hell Appeal to Tradition: Christianity is 2,000 years old Argument from Ignorance: I can’t think of another cause Argument from Silence:Nothing has proven me wrong Argument from Authority: He has a PhD, so his geology theory must be right Argumentum Ad Baculum: We will torture heretics Argumentum Ad Populum:Billions believe in god Association Fallacy: Stalin was atheist so atheists are immoral Begging the Question: The bible says so Cherry Picking: The Old Testament doesn’t count Circular Reasoning: The Bible says god exists, it is gods word Equivocation: Religion requires faith, but so does science False Attribution: Einstein believed in god False Dilemma: It must be “nothing” or god, it can’t be nothing, therefor god Ignoratio Elenchi: I know many good Christians Inflation of Conflicts: Scientists do not agree 100% so they are wrong Inverse Error: Science hasn’t disproven god No True Scotsman: A real Christian wouldn’t cheat, lie or be immoral Onus Probandi: You must prove god does not exist Post hoc ergo propter hoc: I prayed for her to get better, she did, so prayer works Psychologists Fallacy: Atheists can’t have moral code Quote Mining: Life did not arise from “completely random” events Red Herring: Someone called Jesus existed Slippery Slope: If gays can marry, people will marry animals next Straw man: I didn’t come from a monkey Wishful Thinking: We must be here for a reason or purpose

[@camerong5513]

Are you alluding to Owen ??

[@joshlumley2460]

So grateful for my brother Owen. He is such an encouragement. SDG!

[@TheSacredlizzy]

Amen!

[@duncescotus2342]

Silly Dogmatic Generalities, such are the Solas. All of them false. I can prove it from scripture if you want. I'm tired now. but I can do it, trust me

[@TheSacredlizzy]

@@duncescotus2342 “trust me” nah bruh we’re good. We have the Holy Spirit. Try it.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@TheSacredlizzy Hi sister Elizabeth, I've heard of that. Holy Spirit...Holy Spirit.....drawing a blank right now, I'm tired again. Pray for me, please.

[@TheSacredlizzy]

@@duncescotus2342 ok 👍🏼

[@crystala8020]

Where does Colby get that EVERYONE is a part of God’s family?? Unless you are born again and covered under the blood of Jesus Christ? You will NEVER be a part of God’s family! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[@EsiriE]

It's crazy tbh. This just shows that not every Christian is born again

[@i--luv--the--universe]

Universalism is part of Progressive Christianity teaching.

[@quintavioussimmons754]

Are we not All born in God's image though?

[@EsiriE]

@@quintavioussimmons754 yeah the bible says MAN is made in God’s image but the bible clearly shows we are not all children of God, man went astray and did it’s own thing. Read John 1:12

[@michi-bi]

@@quintavioussimmons754 do you know what it means to be born again? It took me 15 plus years to understand what it means...I had to go through trials and Tribulations

[@LinaGQ]

Love how Owen is used by God. May God continue to use him

[@sarahb2874]

Colby is a Pastor?! That’s scary...

[@markshaneh]

Colby is no more a pastor than he is a unicorn 😎

[@captivaparadise]

We need to pray for him. I'm not being facetious. He is really lost, (and is leading others astray, unfortunately) and we need to pray that he can find his way back to the true Jesus and true gospel.

[@markshaneh]

@@captivaparadise yes, but also Remember by his own admissions, he doesn’t want to know the true living God, Colby only wants a god of his own making and in his own image, he is an anti christ.

[@VVeremoose]

He even asks where the Bible says things that are very basic. There was a place where he assumes that the Genesis account is not a good analogy of God's plan and then turns around and says we need to look to Jesus to know God. But Jesus references that very analogy in Genesis to teach about marriage.

[@keith3362]

Ya just need to look like a hipster and all good

[@SimonWartanian]

25:22 "If it is not grace for all, it is not grace at all." Does he understand what grace is? When you start demanding grace it is no longer grace.

[@eldotjay]

Grace is made available to _all._ But no one can be _forced_ to accept God’s grace. That isn’t loving to *force someone against their will to accept your love.* In our culture that would be seen as sexual harassment. That’s the distinction Colby is failing to realise.

[@summercolbert9870]

Right!

[@duncescotus2342]

That's brilliant, brother Simon. Is that like when Oliver Twist asked for more?

[@YourFriendDevin]

“I didn’t say you were wrong. I said that there’s no way you’re right.” lol okay

[@dmmusicmusic]

@24:18= the crux of the issue: " the God" one can believe in vs the HGod of the Bible who has revealed Himself as He is.

[@jacobmead6082]

That was a valid thing for him to say, like it would also be valid for me to say : I don't eat meat and dairy, but that doesn't mean I'm a vegan

[@YourFriendDevin]

@@jacobmead6082 It wouldn’t be the same because being vegan isn’t the opposite of eating meat. In other words, you can avoid meat and not be vegan. Being wrong and being right are polar opposites and mutually exclusive.

[@romans1vs6teen]

Take note at how focused one is on what Gods word says and how focused the other is on our emotions and feelings. One will lead you to a close relationship with God and the other is prone to lead you into sin.

[@annieangel97]

you would never be fired from any non religious job for being progressive

[@Maced_with_Nightmares]

R u implying that a conservative would?

[@MrStuDubb]

@@Maced_with_Nightmares Duh.

[@Maced_with_Nightmares]

@@MrStuDubb as if😂nobody cares as long and they’re not a dipsheet being disrespectful to people with their personal opinions.

[@seanreed183]

he was fired from a church position

[@Yangkk3]

Wow, Colby did not see what Owen just did there... When it comes to Owen there's layers, traditions and cultures from keeping him from being the right view. But when it comes to Colby, there is absolutely no layers, traditions, and culture that keeps him from being the moral authority... and he just said "Oh Absolutely".... Wow scary...

[@TashaNati]

I’m so glad someone else caught that too. Colby completely missed that particular nuance in the conversation, and it revealed a deeper look into his worldview.

[@Angeloflight7]

what is even more scary is, how I am hearing Colby is that, him not having any layers etc could suggest there being no substance to him, to which Colby himself even said something along the lines of yea I change that stuff all the time and leave stuff behind. Thus, by Colby's admission, he who is of no substance holds the ultimate moral authority... wild

[@mikem9399]

He literally said Jesus said that he never said we must believe in him.. Whats this guy reading?

[@jamesfreakingharris]

“I am the Way the Truth & The Life, none can come to the Father except by me” “Come to” means that we (without him) are apart from. Unless our union is in Christ, whatever “way” we follow, whatever “truth” we believe or whatever “life” we wanna live will lead us AWAY from God. Colby needs to understand that his false teaching breaks the heart of God and misleads his Childrens & creation FROM him. Holy Spirit, bring revelation to his heart & mind

[@julisagonzalez657]

@@jamesfreakingharris the problem is that he doesn’t believe the words of the Bible are relevant because he believes the Bible has been tainted with bias and man.. so you can quote scripture and tell him who the Bible says god is and he will still reject it because he doesn’t believe that the Bible is truth or has any power.

[@duncescotus2342]

Well if he said that, he's off. But Jesus worded things very, let's just say, carefully. Don't add to it, and don't take away from it.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@jamesfreakingharris yeah, but He came to 'seek and to save the lost." So before the saving, sometimes there needs to be a seeking. Be open to seekers.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@julisagonzalez657 Hi sister, well argued. Better than any man of God on this topic, that's for sure. The scriptures CANNOT be put aside. However, the scriptures are deep waters and we are fishers of men.

[@janyia3388]

The debate should’ve ended when Colby said Bible is unreliable.

[@Lordpraisethe]

Forreal

[@PastorBrianTubbs]

I applaud the fact that this was a civil conversation. We need more such conversations in our society.

[@anchorednorth]

We hope you enjoyed this 3-part series! We’re currently in the planning phase for a filmed conversation on Black Lives Matter. These conversations take a lot of resources to make. Please help us keep these coming by donating here: anchorednorth.org/donate/

[@mountainmover.s]

For sure

[@dansaber8435]

You can be LGBT and Christian no problem

[@mountainmover.s]

@@dansaber8435 no you can't follow Jesus Christ words from God and still follow your ungodly lustful passions. That's a contradiction of living. You can read his word all day tho lol

[@dansaber8435]

@@mountainmover.s # I find no fault with the LGBT whatsoever.

[@dansaber8435]

@@mountainmover.s we all play a part in Bible prophecy. Did you know it was the religious people that wanted Jesus crucified? You may have more in common with them than you think

[@aubrieweaver2302]

This is so great! Even better than Part 1 and Part 2. I would love more content like this! Love Owen's boldness and Biblical grounding!

[@easyuketuts]

Misleading title.. would have been really interesting if they brought an actual Christian to debate Owen. This guy is just a progressive, motivational speaker.. nothing about his rhetoric does anything for the Christian faith but deny it, destroy it, taint it and misrepresent it. Lord have mercy on this man

[@rachelm.2536]

I think it would be very difficult to find a progressive Christian who doesn't deny Scripture in some way. It seems to me thats the common trend of progressive speakers on debates or interviews. Progressive Christianity just doesn't appear accept scripture as truth. It's very interesting to me to put a title of Christianity on it if there's unbelief or doubts of authenticity lingering. I wouldn't want to serve a God who "got it wrong."

[@nanetteyvonne1222201]

Slippery slope. If you’re confused, or mentally and emotionally disturbed you shouldn’t be working with children. Love the sinner, hate the sin. I used to be “gay”, God led me out of that lifestyle and healed my mind and soul. I knew He loved me, but our relationship could only go so far because I was living a life of sin and contradiction of His Word and He couldn’t use me until I figured out it was wrong and repented.

[@Jasminestealth1]

Romans 14 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. I am Glad that in your walk - in your convictions - you are Good with God.... that does not mean your way - is everyone's way....

[@bonniefox5355]

Praise God, I'm so thankful God led you out of that lifestyle and pray He does for many many others. I'm sure God will use you greatly in that area to help others! I pray He will strengthen you, give you wisdom ,guidance and bless you mightily. 🙏💕

[@willjapheth23789]

I feel like the Bible says hate the sinner. Have you read what the Bible says? Depends on the sin and lesbianism is vaguely mentioned once so that's not a big deal but several other sins make it pretty clear you are hated. Except beating slaves, that's okay in the Bible.

[@nanetteyvonne1222201]

Yes I have read the Bible, and I keep reading the Bible. People hate. God loves and forgives a repentant person. I know God loves me and that’s enough@@willjapheth23789

[@willjapheth23789]

@@nanetteyvonne1222201 That's great that you can feel loved. though I worry why you don't care about why you worship a God who's prophets massacre women and children according to the Bible, and you likely believe all unbelievers will be tortured in hell. like Jews believe in the same God and they are all damned to most Christians. The list goes on. The loving God stuff is bs. at least progressive Christians tend to acknowledge these issues in the Bible.

[@beth5209]

To sum this convo up: PC: "To ME this is what God wants us to do" CC: "The SCRIPTURE said this is what God wants us to do"

[@kayley9331]

If the relationship to God and Jesus is truly personal why would there not be me statements? The scripture has never perfectly outlined every possible choice in my life. Even then the scripture said not to wear multiple colors or mixed linens which I doubt most of us follow besides the Amish.

[@JiuJitsuRanger]

Owen: “That’s very interesting…” Translation: “Im just being respectful rn but you’re a fool who needs to re-read The Bible…”

[@TheJumpRopePreacher]

To me its rather simple: The culture needs the finished work of Christ on the cross. The finished work of Christ on the cross does not need the culture

[@abigailstone2505]

I like how Colby says he is trying to fit in with the broader culture. God doesn't ask us to fit in, wallow in the darkness and surround ourselves with worldly things , He asks us to stand out and be the light of the world so that we may Glorify Him.

[@annieangel97]

didn't he also say that his views have nothing to do with trying to follow along with the mainstream?

[@camerong5513]

he said nothing of the sort

[@immanuelkant7895]

„Fake Christian VS Real Christian“ would be a better title.

[@taylorthatwriter6865]

This is FASCINATING. The difference between these theologies seems to be whether Christ is actually Lord or not. If Christ is Lord, and we know Him to be based upon the very Word, then we must be firm with the truth. As a formerly active member of the LGBTQ community, if believers in Christ, and even the Spirit of God himself, had not reminded me of his Lordship then I would have continued to walk in darkness. A cruciform life is folly to the world. So sad to hear the argumentation of Colby. :(

[@anchorednorth]

Thank you for watching Honest Discourse. We are so thankful to bring people with differing perspectives together for meaningful conversations. As the discussions continue in the comments, we encourage you to engage kindly. The spirit of this format is “discuss, don’t demonize.”

[@lizaw.7313]

Wow right out of the gate Colby is minimizing Owen's experience. It s funny how he minimizes feelings but is such a fan of them in most of the bulk of the conversation.

[@jwong7]

About 23 minutes in when Colby starts talking about how heartbroken he is that Owen would say "we don't naturally/innately deserve a relationship with God" is pretty confronting. It appears like Colby doesn't believe humans are sinful? We can affirm both statements: 1. All human beings are created in the image of God, and in this way are loved by him 2. All human beings are sinful, and need to be saved through Jesus Christ (and remain loved by God despite their need for salvation - in fact because of God's love for them he provides a way for them to be saved) They aren't mutually exclusive statements. But it seems like Colby can't hold one without cancelling out the other... If I didn't believe humans were sinful, and I believed that everyone is innately in a relationship with God apart from the work of Jesus, then yes of course I'd believe people can live/do whatever they want and God isn't concerned about it...

[@jnorvil]

Adding to that: Throughout this conversation, I find Colby's view of humanity with relation to God to be the problem. He presupposes that humans are by default children of God. That's not necessarily so (and to be fair, I don't think Owen did a good job clarifying that). While it's true that all of mankind is made in the image of God, it doesn't mean that ALL humans are God's children. This is an important distinction to make as it can help Colby grasp Owen's position on certain sins (e.g., sexual immorality) and the Judgment (i.e., Heaven and Hell). Being made in the image of God can be viewed as a creature (man) bearing a special signature of its Creator (out of all the created things, man bears the closest resemblance to God in various ways), whereas being a child of God means that one is born again (having been birthed anew by the Spirit of God which then implies a new creature now relating to God not just as Creator, but also as Father). As a Creator, God relates to humanity as He would to creatures, as a maker would to his creation. As Father, He relates to humanity, that is to a select number, as a loving parent would to his children. All men know (or know of) God as the Creator, Lawgiver, and/or Judge. Yet, only some know Him as Father, Savior, and/or Lover of the soul. With this understanding, it is easier to reconcile in part both men's positions. As Owen might argue, God, as the Maker of man and Giver of his intrinsic worth, can certainly decide the fate of any human being according to His foreknowledge, wisdom, and righteousness, especially that of a person who has lived contrary to His laws. At the same time, as Colby alluded to, God is not One to sentence a child of His to everlasting destruction without any chance of redemption, regardless of the offense. P.S. It would have been helpful if both men at least shared a similar view of the book of Genesis (that is, the first several chapters). From there, much of their disagreements would likely get resolved.

[@jdoe7674]

We also didn’t ask to be here though if God knew me from the beginning of time and he knew I would reject him why would he create me for context I’m actually a Christian but I believe in universal reconciliation I think Jesus died for everyone I think sin will be punished but not in hell and not eternally and that extends to Christian’s too accepting Jesus isn’t a free pass to sin we will be punished for sins just like hitler but it won’t be eternal and it won’t be in hell it will be in the lake of fire which is in the presence of God

[@user-bl7bt4tk7p]

@@jdoe7674 I'm curious to know which version of the bible do you read and which denomination are you identifying with? Just purely curious to know, I'm learning which versions and denominations are associated with certain key doctrines. Thanks.

[@carolinebevans]

this “pastor” literally doesn’t even know what he believes, he dances around the truths of the Bible and literally doesn’t even definitively say there is a God. 🤯 he talks like an atheist. his “god” is whatever he wants to believe is right for his modern progressive views. does he even believe in sin?? This is scary.

[@bretkunkle6496]

Leviticus 25:44-46 New International Version 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

[@eddiejauregui6607]

I just saw a video of him and Sean McDowell yesterday. He seemed like he was so concerned with being politically correct it was ridiculous. And as a pastor, he didn’t seem very well versed in scripture either. Pastors like him are dangerous, especially to our teenage children.

[@eddiejauregui6607]

I think the better example that the conservative pastor should have used, instead of a serial killer, would have been a man(or a woman) who has sex with different partners.

[@gew1898]

He is a practical atheist.

[@camerong5513]

"scary"; so what!? aw, sorry, he "dances", straying from ya IN-SANE, childrens' story and ignorant expectations

[@katiesmith5149]

The crux of the disagreement happens right around 16:18 in the way Colby describes God. Based on how Colby described God, these two men are not talking about the same God.

[@jnorvil]

Throughout this conversation, I find Colby's view of humanity in relation to God to be the problem. He presupposes that humans are by default children of God. That's not necessarily so (and to be fair, I don't think Owen did a good job clarifying that). While it's true that all of mankind is made in the image of God, it doesn't mean that ALL humans are God's children. This is an important distinction to make as it can help Colby grasp Owen's position on particular sins (e.g., sexual immorality) and the Judgment (i.e., Heaven and Hell). Being made in the image of God can be viewed as a creature (man) bearing a special signature of its Creator (out of all the created things, man bears the closest resemblance to God in various ways), whereas being a child of God means that one is born again following true repentance and faith in Jesus Christ (having been birthed anew by the Spirit of God which then implies a new creature now relating to God not just as Creator, but also as Father). As a Creator, God relates to humanity as He would to creatures, as a maker would to his creation. As Father, He relates to humanity, that is to a select number, as a loving parent would to his children. All men know (or know of) God as the Creator, Lawgiver, and/or Judge. Yet, only some know Him as Father, Savior, and/or Lover of the soul. With this understanding, it is easier to reconcile in part both men's positions. As Owen might argue, God, as the Maker of man and Giver of his intrinsic worth, can certainly decide the fate of any human being according to His foreknowledge, wisdom, and righteousness, especially that of a person who has lived contrary to His laws. At the same time, as Colby alluded to, God is not One to sentence a child of His to everlasting destruction without any chance of redemption, regardless of the offense. P.S. Yes, it would have been helpful if both men at least shared a similar view of the book of Genesis (that is, the first several chapters). From there, much of their disagreements would likely get resolved.

[@TheRoark]

“There’s no way you’re right” is such a weak defense of his own Isegesis. This guy throws out the Bible and says all we need is Jesus, but then if you just posit who Jesus is based on your own conscious, then you’re worshipping your own God!

[@TheRoark]

Oh wait, he admits to his own isegesis later in the video. He categorically denies any epistemology at all! Everyone has layers of tradition so there is no way anyone is right 😂 this is ridiculous and leads to either self worship or a metaphysical nihilism since truth is beyond our grasp

[@willjapheth23789]

Perhaps. But it's preferable to someone who thinks all the mass murder Moses ordered is okay, etc. Like how can you criticize abortion and think Moses the killer of children is a prophet.

[@hondawilky]

@@willjapheth23789 One key correction: Moses didn’t order the taking of life; God did. God is the SOLE being in all of existence who is able to determine who lives and who dies. He **is** Love. His commands **are** right and good.

[@willjapheth23789]

@@hondawilky could you describe the loving way Moses' soldiers killed the boys they captured? Did they kill the moms in front of the boys or did they kill the boys in front of the moms? (In numbers 31). Eh they probably killed them in small groups in the woods, wouldn't want all the women and children to run away after seeing all the killing.

[@hondawilky]

@@willjapheth23789 Numbers 31:1 “The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”.... Shall I continue? Your problem is that you presume that the events described in Scripture are false - that God isn’t who He says He is and doesn’t follow through on what he says he will do. As I said, ONLY God has the authority to order the giving and taking life. ONLY God is able to see everyone human being’s past, present, future, and every hypothetical scenario in between.

[@BeksWorld]

Colby called the Bible “unreliable”. Wow! I’m curious to know if he even reads the Word anymore or just makes up his own ideas on who he “thinks” God is.

[@BeeinTX]

So glad to finally see part 3!

[@themoderndaygamer637]

This “pastor” doesn’t have an scriptural standing that he made arguments on. How can you claim to be a teacher of the word and someone who pastors the church and not know who Jesus is? You can’t.

[@themoderndaygamer637]

@Eightball Wizard except you’re wrong. There is actual historic records of him existing but nice try

[@Samsungsamsung-ec5gl]

@Eightball Wizard God will remind you of this comment the day you meet him.

[@camerong5513]

'k

[@bigga5406]

I mean no disrespect to the bearded dude, but he’s a pastor? He just seems like a life coach to me.

[@cathymorland9731]

Owen thank you for doing this with Colby. You really hit the gospel home at the end! (I applaud you for not saying "Get behind me Satan")

[@LyudaSP]

Owen drops the 🎤 at the end ! Love it! Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and wisdom is what we got here! Praise God!

[@judahguerrero1090]

Bearded secular atheist doesn't know that he's being witnessed to.

[@truere4lity]

Did he just say the Bible is unreliable? Is he really a muslim, or someone who is against God? He clearly does not know Him.

[@SG4sdg]

This guy is sincerely and genuinely convinced of the god of his making. But as genuine as his belief is, he is genuinely lost. May God open his eyes.

[@annewells2306]

Yes, we need to pray for Colby🙏

[@camerong5513]

oh who's that?

[@croppedndocked146]

@@camerong5513 Hahaha! As if you can't tell! Oh, wait. Maybe you don't read the Bible. I don't want to make any assumptions. She's talking about Colby. He is LOST.

[@chosen9758]

Why even have a conversation between a Christian and agnostic about christianity in the 1st place???? To the guy with the beard. My mother and brother in law were kicked out of their homes in their teens for becoming Christian.

[@kross2143]

Sadly this is a big movement right now and many people are leaving their churches and following teachers like this. It’s been cropping up in popular ‘Christian’ literature and podcasts for a while now. I have a friend who I didn’t really know when she was in a main line church, who has gone deep into this thought - and there’s no reasoning with her from the scriptures (or logic really because she’s embraced a very relativistic view of reality) because everything is up to her interpretation of what God would be like if He fit her idea of a loving God. If you read the comments you’ll see the people who want to defend this and are actively spreading it trying to ‘enlighten’. There is a point where it’s no longer helpful to dialogue and becomes casting pearls, but some people do eventually see the futility of placing themselves where God should be.

[@NitoLFC12]

The progressive guys theology is just so out of biblical truth..... he looks at God as an atheist and says “if God is real, He would (should) be like this.., and if he is not then He isn’t good and if he isn’t good then he isnt God”...... Instead of starting with God, he starts with himself and humanity.... instead of glorifying the creator, he rather rest in the glory of of creation.... This man makes so much truth claims yet has no foundation in truth (God is truth).... Owen truly showed patience and grace with this man.... He talks so much of “where is your love, your compassion”.... he so blinded to the truth of God and His word and gets caught up in the beginning thought of what owen says and just goes blank when he enters into his counter argument ??? He just kept avoiding Owens points by trying to be like “oh I didn’t even pay attention to your argument because I was just heartbroken” Really???? That’s just ridiculous

[@kimsteinke713]

So you think the man Owen is a better man for lying about his nature so he let's say he's a gay man lying about who he is cuz he thinks that God has commanded him to rebuke his own nature which he perceives as gay and so you say that the man on the right for telling the truth and walking the truth and embracing all the other people that say that this is the truth you could dim him which one is it so you want the man on the left to continue to lie about his true nature and preach a different Bible or the one on the right to tell the truth and to be burned at the stake for what he believes which is reality on the ground there is a third Way open your books and your mind. And when all else fails think critically and use it reason. ❤️

[@kimsteinke713]

Children are committing suicide over theology that's when the book should stop and be opened up and critically talked about you don't just go with it you must discern the spirits plural. 🙏

[@NitoLFC12]

@@kimsteinke713 so is the Bible the word of God, your final authority or not ?

[@mariangelaserrano1078]

Whenever I watch this videos and the progressive Christian talks, I literally pause the video and talk out loud like if I was in that room and give my own response as to why he is not making sense and he is missing the point of who God is and why we someone who doesn’t obey Gods commands beyond loving one another doesn’t necessarily mean that is indeed a Christ follower! Hahaha does anyone else does this?

[@Kolexd773]

Honestly thought I was the only one 😭😭🤣

[@jnorvil]

Wow!!! It just goes to show our personal "weirdness" is not that weird after all. 😅

[@ShyGuyPal102]

I totally do the same thing, even with other videos haha! I had to stop a few times because I was getting emotional. I really felt that final statement Owen made, it really stired some emotion in me how amazing Jesus is, what an awesome God we have! On the other hand, a lot of the statements Colby made hurt me emotionally and physically, just like a punch to the gut. I hope Colby finds Christ if he hasn't already, and that Owen continues to preach with such patience and reverence for God.

[@lonniephillips3970]

This was a good discourse that does reveal the stark contrast between those who look at God's word, the Bible, as being God's word and those that believe God's word, the Bible, is not really God's word.

[@MatthewSchellenberg]

It's not that Owen is somehow special and meritorious for having sound theology "in 2020", it's that God has blessed Owen and given him insight. Everything is by God's grace, even his wisdom. Colby makes it sound as though Owen is arrogant, when he's really not. He's just leaning on the everlasting arms of his savior.

[@pitbulllover151]

Owen has incredible levels of patience... I would’ve lost it on this dude and his snarky attitude

[@mountainmover.s]

"What if it did ?" "Yeah" lmbooo!! Too funny , he's very patient.

[@bendaniels2726]

He asked what if it only mattered if we were created in God's image. If that is all that mattered then we wouldn't need Jesus. He claims to follow Jesus but doesn't think we need Him. So stupid.

[@mountainmover.s]

@@bendaniels2726 yeah totally agree

[@johnysmithy2338]

“Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-2‬ ‭

[@christopherg.matton9610]

Owen's grace in this conversation is astonishing

[@davidavramenko5333]

@Anchored North ! Thankyou sooo so much for such great content, both in professional video editing skill, and all the more importantly, the gospel centeredness of it all! Im beyond grateful for your faithfulness! We need this in these times of confusion, and clear lines being crossed! May God richly bless your whole team! And please dont be discouraged about anything, but know that your true reward comes from the Father who has given us His Son! May He lead you all in stewarding His grace!

[@Matt-xs3vq]

You can see Colby's worldview being torn down before him and he doesn't know how to respond.

[@ericajackson2380]

Its rather heartbreaking. Just as the heartbreak he spoke about listening to Owen, I think his name is. I thought he would be different from the other sessions they had. But Colby is like a rebellious child that thinks he's grown but cant figure out how to get out of the basement of his parents' home. Its disturbing to watch

[@caffeineman72]

I don't see that at all, I see a man who is so arrogant to believe that he is able to discern right and wrong all on his own continue to believe he is right, and there is no convincing him otherwise.

[@katiesmith5149]

I see two men motivated by compassion for others, one of whom understands that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sins is the ultimate companionate act, and the other who is recreating God in the worldly image of a human definition of compassion.

[@duncescotus2342]

I don't see that. I see a man who's going after the lost sheep that the shepherds have neglected. WWJD?

[@duncescotus2342]

What good is your worldview if you don't care about people?

[@justinkintzel]

Whenever scripture appears in the conversation, the progressive (who stated that he became convinced about his position by studying the text), completely dodges and avoids any meaningful discussion about the text.

[@grace663]

im so excited to watch this !! these last two videos have been some of my favorites, ever.

[@paulbeno9346]

It always comes down to one thing with the progressive camp. They don’t believe in the inerrancy of scripture. It’s amazing. If you don’t think scripture is God breathed and the basis for truth you can make it say or translate it anyway you want to fit your lifestyle

[@hondawilky]

Matthew 19:4-6 - “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” (Jesus, quoting Genesis 2 , found also Mark 10 and later in quoted Ephesians 5). Since Colby seems very interested in giving the words of Jesus greater weight than the rest of Scripture - up to and including completely negating other New Testament passages - I would love to hear how he reconciles Christ’s clear endorsement of a gender binary and monogamous, heterosexual sex (and, by implication, condemnation of any other sort of sexual relations) as a cornerstone of any marital relationship with his stance on homosexuality. Would Colby seriously have us believe that homosexual sex reflects the one-flesh paradigm laid out by our Lord and savior? Or will he just sidestep/ignore this inconvenient passage like he does all others that contradict what he **wants** to be true about God.

[@Jasminestealth1]

18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him.” 19 So the Lord God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man[c] to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one. 20 He gave names to all the livestock, all the birds of the sky, and all the wild animals. But still there was no helper just right for him. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. While the man slept, the Lord God took out one of the man’s ribs[d] and closed up the opening. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib, and he brought her to the man. He did not create Eve with Adam - and he brought all the wild animals to Adam.. to be a helper... BUT STILL THERE WAS NO HELPER>>>>> or King James if you prefer : 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. so many translations of Adam needing a helper... and God bringing forth all he had created... and none could be found.... so God created..... Why do so many Christians pick and chose... especially those that support discrimination... and hurt on others... instead for Love??

[@hondawilky]

@@Jasminestealth1 I’m a bit confused. How does any of what you just quoted contradict my post above? If anything, it reinforces it. 🤷‍♂️

[@Jasminestealth1]

@@hondawilky I think all of this is interesting topic.. I will say this... "if God brought together".. why would that not be true of Same Sex relationships? Do you believe that the Devil can create "love"? Do you believe that in relationships all sexual acts (even with in the confins of marriage are Good in Gods eyes? Or just the missionary position) ... Fun fact the Clitoris is the only organ with a sole purpose of pleasure..... The point to my post was to say... that Gods creation according to direct inturpritation ... says that God made something that... first was lonely (aka he created something imperfect as it needed something else) also that he brought forth all that he had already created to fill that void and it did not (guess he didnt know it would not work?) and it did not work.... this is to say... The Word, (the bible) in all of its various translation is to do one thing... to get us closer to him... and even in the thousands of years, its proven itself of God - as it in all of its variations and contradictions serves its purpose.. our walk with God... No where NO WHERE in the bible does it say... take scripture to use to condemn others.. plenty examples of splinter in anothers eye - Plank in yours - Cast the first stone - ... I believe Colby is using to the best of his walk - to Show love - to highlight Gods love - he is not keeping the bible from people - each of us has a responsibility to search out God... ps the word says “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts- so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”.... Does Owen understand??

[@MoonMoon-fx1op]

@@hondawilky her response had me trippin for a second. She literally walked right into reiterating your point with actual Scripture 😂

[@EsiriE]

@@hondawilky she's been commenting on other comments things that don't make any sense. She doesn't make a clear point just wants to cause confusion i guess 🤷

[@JadDragon]

Just because some people have been wrong doesn't mean everyone is always.

[@mustard4428]

However, it does attest to the possibility of being wrong now and perhaps, even, the probability.

[@JadDragon]

@@mustard4428 possible? Sure. Probable? That's a stretch.

[@mustard4428]

@@JadDragon It might be. I only commented because your statement seemed to be uncharitable. It's your right to be uncharitable but it probably isn't constructive.

[@JadDragon]

@@mustard4428 I was responding to an uncharitable position

[@mustard4428]

@@JadDragon Then I misunderstood what you were responding to. I'm glad that we cleared that up.

[@annabellelubouski9438]

Theologically, if you call the Bible unreliable, how can you call yourself a Christian and believe in the written Gospel?

[@iluvucuzjesus5347]

the guy with the beard likes to talk and not listen. It is a sign of knowledge but no wisdom

[@elefdee0338]

Yes I was think proverbs 17:28 listening to him.

[@sovereigngrace9723]

Actually proverbs says he’s a fool, knowledge is knowing the truth of the world, and wisdom is the application of knowledge. He lacks knowledge on the truth, and therefore cannot apply it. Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:27

[@TheRoark]

I don’t think the criticism of progressivism being cultural movement has to do with it being “easier” per se, more so that it has moved theologically along with the cultural moment. Not for ease, just for cultural reasons and generally being very empathetic to the LGBT community.

[@Mandy-nt2cs]

Nah.. it's for ease & comfort. So people can partake in Eartly desires that also happen to be sinful.

[@hlowe24]

Thank you Owen for speaking God’s Truth in love. The Holy Spirit was definitely with you! Praying for Colby.

[@camerong5513]

🤡

[@zoe1l]

Thank you to Owen for representing God through the Bible and spirit, firmly and lovingly

[@crystala8020]

Colby subscribes a humanistic value on a Holy God!

[@camerong5513]

'k

[@VoxWolf]

"My heart just sunk when you said there are people who are disconnected from God"... that tends to happen when you tell God "I know better, leave me be". He loves you enough to step away when you want Him to.

[@KarynThurston]

And the folks who say “God, I love you and I am desperate to know you,” but through study and love and devotion and birthplace and education and the absolute best of their knowledge come to a different conclusion about who God is than you do in the one of thousands of variations of Christianity you believe is capital T Truth - what does God do with those millions of folks?

[@VoxWolf]

@@KarynThurston He judges based on the information they do know. Study, Love, Birthplace and Education have nothing to do with what kind of information you get. If you truly want to know truth, God will make Himself known to you. You can't create a god based on your standards. It doesn't work like that. For most people, it's not an information issue. It's a heart issue. They hold too tight to their own desires and refuse to acknowledge that there is a higher standard to which everyone must submit at one point or another. If you're looking for God but aren't willing to change the way in which you live your life (as God commands), you aren't going to find Him. He knocks on people's doors, but there will be a day where He doesn't come around anymore.

[@KarynThurston]

@@VoxWolf I'm sorry, perhaps I'm misunderstanding - you're saying you don't agree that where you're born and what kind of education you receive affects what kind of information you get? And I hear you saying that you believe that most people are willfully denying God. Respectfully, those aren't the people I asked about. I asked about the folks who desperately seek, love, and desire God and aim to do his will, but come to different conclusions than your tradition might. Do they go to hell because they got it wrong?

[@VoxWolf]

@@KarynThurston Where you are born and what kind of education you receive MAY (and I say this very loosely) be a minor setback, but it certainly isn't one that you can't overcome. There are plenty of people who come to know Christ but don't live in places that adhere to Christianity. I've seen many people become Christians who live in predominantly atheist areas. If where you are born shapes your beliefs, wouldn't they be more inclined to becoming atheists as well? -- I've seen variations of this argument over the years... whether it be about the children of Christians following their parents blindly, or even Africans in the Congo following the "White Man's Religion" blindly. This argument, at least in my opinion, paints followers of Christ (or any belief system really) as idiots who can't think for themselves. I can assure you I am in no way making the presupposition that you believe this, but this is just where I've seen this particular argument go. Secondly, education isn't always the deciding factor for why people believe what they do. Sure, what you argue can echo some arguments made by your teachers or professors, but any educated person... any logical person, really... would question "Why" they believe what they do and "How" they've come to that conclusion. If people just blindly follow whatever they hear without facts, I can assure you this would be an even scarier world to live in. As for people who truly seek God and wish to live in a way that glorifies Him but come to different conclusions, I can only say this: It is the fundamentals that count. You can be a follower of Christ and have differing opinions pertaining to small topics (Calvinists, Baptists, Lutherans, and Non-Denoms. share similar beliefs, but disagree on small topics)... but if you call yourself a follower of Christ and disagree with Him on the fundamentals... that's an issue. The Bible is a book that answers itself. What it says ultimately doesn't leave room for your own interpretation. If it says something is a sin, it's a sin. If you truly question the legitimacy of what you read, I suggest as any logical person would, that you research it. Thoroughly. With your opinions set aside. If you pick up a Bible with presuppositions in mind, you're not going to read it correctly, that is, the way the author meant you to read it. This goes for any piece of literature. Lastly in this portion, context matters. It's important to know the context of the verses and what it means for you as a Christian. A lot of people get small things wrong, and that's completely okay! However, this is eternity we are talking about, so I hope people would treat it as such. I have absolutely no jurisdiction on this issue (where people go when they die) as I am not God, but I do have room to give one piece of advice: God created you in His image, you didn't create Him in yours. It's easier to follow a god who gives you everything you want, but not the God who gives you everything you need. He is a righteous judge, and a righteous judge judges accordingly and punishes accordingly. We can think we know everything, and this is coming for someone who used to think that way, but I can assure you there is a LOT that we have to learn. On that note, being the righteous judge that He is, God does not punish according to what we don't know. He punishes us according to what we do know. If we do know that something is a sin and still advocate it because we try and change God to fit our lifestyles, that is our fault. Not His. Likewise, if we preach hate, and know that something we teach is not advocated by God... that is our fault, not His. Lastly, it's important to question "why" things mentioned in the Bible are labeled as sinful. I like to think of this as taking a tiny step into the mind of God. -- Things are labeled as sinful because they damage us and damage our relationship with our creator. We tend to forget as Christians that we are called to deny ourselves and follow Christ. We are people with an enormous amount of sinful baggage. We should always try our best to leave that behind and become born again through Him who gives us strength. I hope this covers your question.

[@KarynThurston]

@@VoxWolf What I’m hearing you say here in response to my question is yes, if those people did not conclude that the same fundamentals you believe are actually fundamental, the result would be their eternal separation from God.

[@Make_Australia_British_Again]

As someone who is struggling with his sexuality and his faith, this has helped.

[@dansaber8435]

God gives you free will to trust him... Or the knowledge of Good and Evil. The only people who can tell you what is shameful are those who worship the serpent.

[@Lordpraisethe]

Bless you 🙏🏿

[@kamarwashington]

@@dansaber8435 Read 1 Corinthians 6

[@dansaber8435]

@@kamarwashington # I find no fault with the LGBT whatsoever

[@kamarwashington]

@@dansaber8435 It doesn’t matter what you think. Dan Saber doesn’t decide what’s right and wrong

[@LoganPlaysGaming]

The fact that the progressive literally said that the Bible is unreliable and contradictory is sad. But it’s EVEN SADDER that the conservative said “there are people God doesn’t love” that’s when he put his feelings towards sinners in.

[@donorush]

Owen gives a pretty clear presentation of the Gospel, and Colby categorically rejects it.

[@tnewz411]

I Agree.

[@camerong5513]

cool story

[@4thr634]

The debate was over at 26:55.

[@KarynThurston]

Wasn’t a debate, Travis! Was supposed to be an exercise in listening and understanding. I suspect we may have missed the point.

[@judgedredd31]

@@KarynThurston you might have. Truth is objective, and either they are both absolutely wrong or one was wrong, but they disagreed and cannot both be right. At this time stamp, Colby admits his ultimate belief about the Bible. He admits having no Christian foundation.

[@KarynThurston]

@@judgedredd31I agree that truth is objective. And the truth, as far as I understand it, is that the premise of this conversation was listening and attempting to understand a new perspective, not to defeat an opponent. But who knows? I’m often wrong, so sure, maybe I missed it!

[@vincetejedo8021]

Never really understood the term “progressive Christian” as what is to progress? Hebrews 13:8 says it all x x

[@tjbiging6498]

Because most "Christians" think the lord saying he loves all is just referring to the minority of people who identify as Christian. Seems like that perfect God wasn't perfect enough to save all of his Children

[@talitameyer2581]

@@tjbiging6498 God is perfect. It's the fact that we are not perfect, far from it. There is no sin that God can accept. If we still live in sin, God cannot accept us. If we are not born again, from Christ's perfect sacrifice on the cross, there is no distinction from you and your sinful life. Through being born again from Jesus you would separate you from sin. Staying in that sinful lifestyle is keeping yourself with that sin, therefore although God loves his creation, he has to do true justice. God loves everyone, it's just that he doesn't agree with everyone's actions, if you can't separate sin from who you are, hell is what we deserve. We are a fallen creation.

[@tjbiging6498]

@@talitameyer2581 I know, my perspectives are newly founded because I learned to let go of all my doubts and insecurities. I believe and accept the word of Christ and his teachings but the problem is, we as people tend to draw our own line as to how far the lord can extend his arm and reach out to save us. Did you know when Jesus roamed the Earth, he was referred to as Yeshua by the Hebrews, so should we not proclaim that Yeshua is the true light and not Jesus? No because its the same thing just from a different stand point. Do you think that out Almighty God in Heaven would righteously strike down the people of North Korea who were told ALL of there lives that the Bible is American propaganda? I think most people assume saying his name and telling yourself you believe in this book with major contradictions within itself and the observed sciences of the world is in a way enough, but at the same time not, because this perspective allows you to hold onto fear and doubts, but understand the words of God speak louder than the book written by man and the voice of all the people telling you to believe in something this way or else you will be damned for eternity. I believe the Holy Spirit resided in all life, even those who were told the bible wasn't true, they have that moral compass guiding them to what they truly believe is better for everyone.

[@Kris77777]

@@tjbiging6498 In regards to the people in North Korea from your example, God judges people based on what they have. If you never had the Torah like the Jews, He'll judge based on your conscience. If you were a Jew who had Torah, He judged based off of that. Once Yeshua entered the world to fulfill what was written in the Torah, and was crucified, buried, ressurected and ascended, He gave us access to the fullness of what was promised to mankind from the beginning. He will judge us according to that. To whom much is given, much is required... If we have access and opportunity to repent and follow Him, we should humble ourselves and take it. Furthermore, after the ascension of Christ, He sent the Holy Spirit who will live inside of us if we ask. From that point forward, we are able to submit to Him, and He will live out His holiness through us. This is how we can leave behind sin for good and truly be free. But it is a choice between pride and humility. God resists the prideful and gives grace to the humble 💕

[@gadsdenguy9783]

Props to Owen for being so knowledgeable and humble.

[@camerong5513]

said no one, ever

[@abigailstone2505]

I would be very interested in hearing one of Colby's sermons lol.

[@KarynThurston]

Wouldn’t it be weird if you weren’t disappointed? I mean, they clearly disagree with your definition of Christianity. I’d be super confused if you were like “yes, this totes supports my worldview!”

[@abigailstone2505]

@@KarynThurston the “Christianity” that he is promoting is more of an emotional support movement than anything. It’s not about God, it’s about who Colby believes God should be, not about who God truly is. He coddles emotions, he doesn’t spread the truth of the gospel like Christians are called to do.

[@KarynThurston]

@@abigailstone2505 Yeah, I would have said the same thing about six years ago, so I can't really fault you for that opinion!

[@Max-ke3ty]

@@KarynThurston So it's taking you six years to shake wokeness off?

[@KarynThurston]

@@Max-ke3ty Hey Max! If you've got a genuine question about my spiritual journey, I'm happy to answer it. Not sure what you mean by "shake wokeness off," but maybe it's a super sick burn that I just don't get, in which case, high five!

[@joshuaschulz3897]

What? How is being asked to serve folding bulletins as opposed to working with children equal to paying with your life? That is a logical fallacy of equation that is not the same thing.

[@BigRed22557]

When Colby confesses that he changed his thinking because he realized that the culture of his upbringing had influenced his convictions about Scripture and whether the LGBTQ+ identity is sin or not, Owen's response was intense! I admire Owen's patience to let that sit. Admittedly, I probably would have jumped on that in this context. "How do you know that you don't think the way you do NOW because of the influence of culture?" The point is, our thinking has to be weighed against God's revealed truth about matters of faith and practice. If our culture or our personal sensibilities are the arbiter of what is true and real, there is nothing to correct our errors but other fallible means and methods. We'll always be conjecturing. Also, the reality that those who identify themselves as LGBTQ+ have such a high rate of depression and suicide is a serious issue, and worthy of addressing with compassion. If the sexual preferences, or gender identities they take upon themselves are good and commendable in God's sight, then the church should affirm these preferences and identities. But if they aren't, then affirming them, even for the noble purpose of lowering the rate of depression and suicide, is not an act of love. Certainly, LGBTQ+ individuals have been mistreated and hurt by people identifying themselves as Christians--and for that the church should call on all disciples of Jesus to repent of hatred and mistreatment--but a refusal to affirm what God has called sin is NOT the same as mistreatment or hatred. But if the church is lovingly calling sinners of all kinds (LGBTQ+ people included) to faith in the all-sufficient, atoning work of Jesus Christ in his death and resurrection for the sins of His people, then I suspect the numbers of depression and suicide would decrease. It will be the people who are given mere affirmation from Progressive Christians, who will find themselves mysteriously hopeless without the good news of God's grace for sins. Telling a condemned man that he's fine is not love; deceit is hate.

[@daltonadger6489]

I’ve left a few comments on these videos pointing out some logical holes or some contradictions from what I heard from the progressive man, and I stand by those. But I also want to say that I really appreciate how both of these men, including the progressive one, were very gracious and reasonable in their approach, which is something that is often missing from conversations like that.

[@conorthomas7190]

23:35 Owen had enough and finally proclaimed out loud what the thousands of comments across these 3 videos have said. To paraphrase: “You worship a god that makes sense to you and I worship the God of scripture.”

[@aleahmaki9641]

You can see frustration in Owens face but he is being patient. Colby seems to have a large ego and is quite condescending especially at the end. We all need Jesus. I appreciate these conversations and the best part is scripture being shared!!!

[@camerong5513]

geez, Owen's clearly a narc, rusted on to his absurd opinions and I dare say the sale of his literature on the matter. Colby was open and not condescending. Seek help...

[@croppedndocked146]

@@camerong5513 One of the two men used the Bible to back up their beliefs -- the other did not. I don't need to tell you which man leans on the Bible and which one doesn't. Why you would side with the unbiblical "pastor" is beyond me.

[@camerong5513]

@@croppedndocked146 umm alot is beyond you, because honesty eludes you. Colby repeatedly referenced & discussed relevant biblical texts while Owen couldn't mention either testament without making factual errors, as i recall

[@shaluyt]

May God continue to bless Owen with speaking the truth in power and love! Praise God! May God help Colby 🙏 to see truth 🙏

[@camerong5513]

thanks for the laugh

[@fireresistant]

Dude just said the Bible is unreliable and contradictory ... yet also claims Christ.... This dude has zero concept of the true gospel of Jesus Christ...and he's a pastor...that is scary

[@moreshige]

To comment with the conservative Christian, I would say in his example, instead of the murderer who claims to be a child of God, he should use any example of a Christian acting contrary to God's word. For example, a Christian who lies or continues to lie can be more in line with his thinking of a homosexual Christian.