Do headphone amps REALLY matter? Live Stream with Blaine & GoldenSound

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[@Dreamzn]

Discussion about the actual topic starts 14:15 :)

[@shinythings7]

Thanks for continuing to do the streams. Really fun to watch and always informative.

[@Tealc2323]

You should make a short version of this. 3h is painful for my short attention span.

[@prithviboinpally2138]

@@thelastrhino2581 lol relax, he just wants a summary. Which would be nice.

[@David-bf1ud]

Agree with short something something span

[@chronometa]

Im curious what ti dac chip golden sound is speaking of.

[@MrThacke]

Class A is not push pull. But most of the signal is expelled as heat. Class R and T amplifiers are my preference because magnetic field cancellation in your toroidal transformer eliminates much component humming allowing for customization of component placement for improved form factor and the inherent distortions that comes with tube amps can be modeled or simulated.

[@hartyewh1]

Amps and DAC are horrific value for sound quallity in a chain. A more comfy listening chair is likely to improve your experience more than dropping a grand or two on amps and dacs (tubes not included).

[@djhmax09]

I hope you realize that there's much more that goes into making these amps and DACs that small companies have to account for. You're not solely paying for the sound, that's not how the economics work.

[@antonhelsgaun]

Assuming you already have a decent amp and DAC, yes

[@hartyewh1]

@@djhmax09 As a consumer buying audio gear I am paying for sound quality. At best a small fraction for ergonomics. Since good sound quality and reliability is available is available easily from $10-30 then whatever the manufacturer wants to slap on their product needs further explanation as to why I ought to pay for it. I do have fancy dacs and amps, but they are horrific value as I said.

[@massivemikeh]

Why tubes not included? You like tubes more than solidstate?

[@audie-cashstack-uk4881]

Time of day might also air pressure tempeture mood well being ear cold warm waxy clean hair length even

[@VOLKOV9]

Sonic Edge said their primary benefit is that the bandwidth of the driver is proportionally tiny so you can make one kind of driver perform very well in its happiest little freq band. In terms of hearing damage, I'm not sure exactly what Cameron's concern is, but the ultrasonics are canceled (hence the power efficiency). Also, it does use MEMS, that's just not the headline.

[@isanasser]

Great stream. Kuddos to GoldenSound on sticking to his guns that amps sound different and subtantiating it. Also agree with Blake on the idea that the community asks you to buy a $10k DAC or amp to properly achieve high quality audio. High quality audio certainly is not scaled up based on price. While the objective measurements can now be achieved with low cost parts, everything else is in the subjective space. But that said, now there's a counter-culture phenomena coming up, in ASR for example, to make a case against expensive gear certainly being worst than their cheaper counter part. Which can be just as biased and non-objective as well.

[@chronometa]

It's getting closer and closer. But higher the cost you start getting better quality materials.

[@chefsteve8381]

We need a snake oil tier list.....please......

[@dentboxhero1717]

There's no such thing as snake oil in the audiophile world.. they only have pure essential oils

[@Jordonater]

Well saying an amp sounds better based on the topolgy IS snake oil because its not true just for that reason.

[@TheTastefulThickness]

There really isnt a category of snake oil. Even cables can matter.

[@MrThacke]

I want to place a headphone on the market that uses plasma drivers. That’s the fastest response available and very dynamic. It will be closed back and virtually waterproof for outdoor use.

[@CptMark]

An advice to all those measuring amps and DACs: check Serge Smironff's df metric.

[@faremissound]

What are the devices mentioned 1:55:54? Too fast for me 🤪 thanks!

[@laialbert]

Matrix X-Sabre Pro and Violectric HPA V550 Mk2 (but I think he means HPA V550 Pro)

[@faremissound]

@@laialbert thanks

[@MrThacke]

Class K amplifiers are more simple that class A. However the frequency spectrum is nearly reduced to midrange.

[@MrThacke]

Even the mojo 2 daisy chained with my Chi Fi tube amp can power the Hifiman He600.

[@garymalone547]

Yeah my class A Lehmann BCL is significantly better than the other amps I had.

[@MrThacke]

Plasma headphone drivers lend themselves to be easily configured into extremely accurate and traveling surround sound drivers also.

[@architectlogin]

Volume level is a bit low. Needs to be louder by about 30%. A few minutes in, Golden is about 20% louder than Andrew.

[@SheepDude-qp7ux]

what a thumbnail 😭

[@moots27]

And audiophile with an artisan mousepad. Sheesh

[@eruilluvitar]

I am so bummed I missed this, but it was for good reason. Love you all!

[@hartyewh1]

Self-deception is not a virtue no matter the pleasure derived.

[@MrThacke]

I love mobile gear so hugo two with a small class A tube amp that I can daisy chain for those Headphones that are power hungry.

[@hartyewh1]

HD750s announced!😮😮😮

[@88fonsfons]

?

[@hartyewh1]

@@88fonsfons The new Sennheiser Resolve hinted at.

[@imabeliever85]

April fools!

[@Ari_M47]

I’m 15 minutes in and already lmao with the bears and shutterbug photo fetishists talk lool 😂

[@DamnDarryn]

the answer is yes

[@moots27]

But the implied question is to what extent

[@imabeliever85]

Thank you for saving us three hours and 30 minutes :-)

[@kevintj604]

Yeah. The answer is most definitely yes. 3 hours talking about measurements, volume matching and other super subjective topics when anyone with a working set of ears can notice in 2mins that there is a difference.

[@OneOddFellow]

⁠​⁠@@kevintj604They can also tell the difference between normal and “oxygen-free” copper cables and other such nonsense. Placebo+confirmation bias is a powerful thing. That’s not to say that there are no differences between solid state amps- but to suggest that subjective experience somehow nullifies the need for scientific, objective inquiry is blatantly untrue as far as I’m concerned. Again- assuming we are talking about solid state amplifiers- tube amps are OBVIOUSLY an exception here- I have never seen (or heard) compelling evidence that different, transparent, solid state amplifiers of reasonable quality (JDS Atom, DX3, etc) are notably different from one another- beyond their ability or lack thereof to drive a specific set of headphones to the desired listening volume.

[@kevintj604]

@@OneOddFellow Your first comment regarding cables is obviously meant to provoke a negative response from me so I’ll leave that aside and stick to the actual topic at hand. You’ve already mentioned that there obviously is a difference between tube and solid state. That difference is beyond easy to understand and noticeable within seconds of listening so that’s already one point in favor of the argument that there is a difference between amps. With that in mind there are also many different kinds of amp topology and I’ll use Questyle’s Current Mode or Zahl’s Class A for example’s. Both of these amps even volume matched sound absolutely nothing like a Topping D90 for example. The implementation of power delivery is totally different. If you introduce something like a Burson amp that uses swappable op-amps those will change the sound as well. I can give you examples all day long that prove that there is clearly a difference between amps. I haven’t even introduced DAC implementation and synergy into this mix yet and that’s even another rabbit hole that will change the sound. For the most part I agree that the vast majority of people should spend the majority of their budget on the transducer but to say that amps don’t make any difference and are all the same is blatantly false.

[@hartyewh1]

I drive my IEMs with a Pathos Inpol Legacy so I have power headroom for good bass.

[@MrJodete23]

Only if you can't get enough volume. The end.

[@jtavegia5845]

The headphone amps in my preamps I've owned or my receiver cannot come close to comparing to any of the Schiit I own. My best are the Asgard and the Vali, but the others are very good including both of the old Magni's. I have always want to own a piece of Mac and look at their $2500 Headphone amp, but doubt that is is $2k better.

[@bruno_mart]

Is there any AI I can use for a TL;DR here?

[@audie-cashstack-uk4881]

If we are talking soundblaster g6 yes if we are talking 1000 to 50000 dac amps no its all bullshit once tou hit a level of clear clean and true there is no higher level

[@timpecker2527]

"If we are talking about my purchase confirmation bias, then yes.". There, fixed your comment. 😁

[@maegnificant]

You have to inhale hot salt water three times a day for 10 minutes to get rid of stuffed sinuses.

[@audie-cashstack-uk4881]

Cardio hard sweat get very hot then bath in hot water and dip tour nose into the water inhale and flush do this for a few days ears sinus nose throat will be super clear na d tour balance will be superb

[@el_arte]

It can be audible, it can be measurable, but wether it sounds better depends on the target skull sponge. Soundstage is an artificial concept, except for acoustic, discrete recordings, where you could relate it to an actual live performance.

[@parp2323]

Interesting topics but the hosts interrupt one another way too often which leads to a thrashy conversation and ultimately means that the hosts can't convey complex topics in a holistic manner

[@user-es3hq5zk4e]

Yes as long as its NOT a Chord DAVE with an Mscaler and Susvara,the most expensive pile of junk mpney could buy.

[@error4159]

The answer is no. Get a 789 or a SP200 and enjoy 6w of distortion free, uncolored power.

[@high-captain-BaLrog]

Chat was....well the kinder word is "special"

[@mikehoward4583]

Everybody has opinions which doesn't make anyone of yours right or wrong.

[@beergutzplatoon]

Had a jds atom, sounded horrible, maybe they are better now idk but so far its been the worse sounding amp ive used that was long before I knew anything about audio

[@hartyewh1]

Probably some other issue. Sounds the same as all decent $100-200 options.

[@beergutzplatoon]

@@hartyewh1 I got a zen dac after that it was better by itself then fed through the atom, althought that was still kinda meh things didnt start to sound really good til I got an asgard 3, headphones I had at the time were deva pro, focal clear and drop 58x, atom just sounded dry, muddy and harsh, used dacs with cirrus, burr brown and ess sabre

[@Tealc2323]

​@@beergutzplatoonMuddy?! I think you had a problem in the chain that you weren't aware of and you blamed it on the Amp.

[@beergutzplatoon]

@@Tealc2323 this was the atom 1, like I said maybe it sounds better now, it worked, the rca cables worked, bought world best, and mono price ones, I used on 3 different dacs they all worked on other systems, I bought the atom brand new, it ran, it got plenty loud, you could hear the all the sound, but to me just sounded bad, but most stuff under $200 sounds bad to me, zen dac was just ok but it was kinda meh even with the i ipowerx supply also, but it was better then the atom maybe there stuff in those prices that are good now i dont know, maybe you need the atom dac with it couldnt tell ya, I tried the schitt fulla 4 that was even better but honestly still crappy sounding imo, all that cheap stuff to me sounds bad idk what it is, my lg v40. Jack sounds better

[@el_arte]

Objectivists measure things that can’t be heard and subjectivists hear things that can’t be measured. The rest is tetrapylectomy.

[@kiavaxxaskew]

it's very simple. not all headphone amps are equal. there are ones that will bring the most out of a headphone, and then there are other ones that will fail to reach those potentials. to some listeners, an amp can reach those potentials to an acceptable extent in relationship to its price.

[@kiavaxxaskew]

it doesn't take an audiophile to know the answer to this question. You just need ears.

[@kiavaxxaskew]

also without a headphone amplifier, you can't drive a headphone AT ALL.

[@audie-cashstack-uk4881]

Interman phone laptop pc bad a Most any good brand dac amp external is as far as anyone needs to go

[@WorldView22]

"Do headphone amps REALLY matter?" Save yourself 3.5 hours, the answer is simple and it's in the affirmative. Anyone believing the opposite is contradicted by reality; a simple audition of two relatively different - in terms of audio quality - amps can demonstrate it.

[@0rogontorogon]

Imo amps (and dacs) only start to matter in the high end. Once one is spending multiple thousands on an amp (or dac), the experience can be quite insane. Everybody has to know for himself whether this absurd "price of entry" is worth this hobby. For cheaper units (still talking multiple hundreds) every transparent amp that can power the headphone will sound similar. Again, imo.

[@chronometa]

Alot of it depends on what you're looking for. Although the higher end gear is technically better. But it might not always correlate to what you want.

[@djhmax09]

The price of entry can certainly be out there, but what most people don't realize is the economics of it all. You're not simply just paying for the sound quality alone.

[@audie-cashstack-uk4881]

The only jump that's real is porr internals vs good entry externals tne jump from phone laptop to souldblaster g6 is 100x the jump of a g6 to a k19 or 50k dreamworld unit.

[@XeonX__ASMR__METAL-experiments]

Do headphone amps REALLY matter? ...3:30 hours of answering :DD ........................ahhh alright. i will listen (as background)