Do I need a thermal expansion tank? - Let's do an experiment!

[@krisssilco]

When learning about this expansion tank, there shouldn't be any other video than this one. You showed thermal expansion visually and with a pressure gauge. You showed us the bladder inside and how it works with an increase in pressure. You can't show any more about this topic. Nice job man

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@noelburke6224]

You can show the calculations used to get the proper sizes off the expansion tank's and also explain the different precharge pressure for different systems

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@noelburke6224 watts has a calculator just for that as well! www.watts.com/resources/planning/etp

[@tmosest]

For real. This video is amazing! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@waldrobfarms3946]

Agreed

[@alphabears6342]

This is one of the best documentary on expansion tank.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@robbynelson3]

I'm over here wondering why our public schools don't do what you just did. You sir are a legend. Keep it up!!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

I appreciate that!

[@loktom4068]

The school system is not keeping up with modern times. Still teaching Romeo and Juliette as composary courses. Go figure.

[@usethenoodle]

@@loktom4068 Actually now they are teaching critical race theory, gender confusion theory and Marxism.

[@hoppershelpfulautomotive]

@robbyneleson3 Exactly! Our school system needs to stop making our children feel guilty for not going to college. Forget bringing back trade programs to high school, we should be introducing kids to this type of material in elementary and middle school AND high school. I spent 12 years in the automotive industry, and now work in the hvac & home remodel industry. Both of my school age kids can identify a capacitor, a contactor, and more automotive parts than I care to count. If the schools won't do it, it's up to us to teach our kids everything we know. @Smedley Plumbing - Very awesome and well put together video! keep up the good work.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@hoppershelpfulautomotive thanks!

[@GIGallegosreg]

Been in the plumbing industry for 20+ years. The way this video is put together is PERFECT, definitely knows plumbing very well. Just make sure to run video at 1.25 speed so that it feels normal. 😁

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@larrytheplumber9851]

😂

[@shockingguy]

Agreed, even if you’re a newbie this was a little long and drawn out, but an excellent video nonetheless

[@JoniAntonio]

I've watched a ton of videos of people complaining that teachers speak too fast. you can't please everybody...

[@davidisaacson9328]

Just selected "playback speed" to 2.0. LMAO! You sound like Ben Shapiro!🤣

[@schmitty99]

HVAC guy here. This video was awesome. Thank you!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad you liked it!

[@25kmgb]

This should be a required part of the training every new plumber must receive. You did an outstanding job presenting this information in a way that every home owner, building inspector and tradesman will understand and remember. I’m really impressed!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you! We are pretty proud of this video as well.

[@Astrnauted]

well when youre an actual REAL plumber that went to school anytime in the past 4-10 years its pretty standard to know id even argue earlier than 10 years but thats municipal dependent.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@Astrnauted no need for hateful comments. Water all trying to share knowledge and learn here.

[@Astrnauted]

@@SmedleyPlumbing lol bud that’s not hateful. Just emphasis on real. Get a grip

[@tellsthetruth894]

Thank you very much for this valuable and educational video. Questions: What size expansion tank is needed for the 40 gal, 50 gal, and a 75 gal water heater tank sizes. The sizes I noted that are available on the market are like 2 gal and 4 gal. I've had a 75 gal tank heater for over 20 years and never have had an expansion tank, nor to my knowledge, had the pressure relief valve to open on its own to relieve the pressure. Would you kindly comment on the best path forward that i should pursue. Another question: Where on the water heater tank would you add a temp gauge if these gauges are available on the market. My old water heater doesn't come with either a pressure or Temp gauge, unfortunately. Thank you

[@wm005]

I am a retired home inspector and never received this type of training. When I came across these tanks I only knew to check the pressure on both the water heater and the tank based on training myself through compairson between different homes. This is an excellent video and a valuable training aid to all...

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@billallen275]

What a GREAT demonstration! You should mention that it is code in many locations to put those in. This is because municipalities are putting in backflow preventers at residential meters and the water has nowhere to go. With no backflow prevention the water simply goes back out into the main. We know that, but people that don't know what expansion tanks are don't.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Correct. Problem is nobody knows if there are checks in the system. If they aren't blindly required by the local code, then it's best to perform a pressure test and monitor pressure through the heating cycle. Code doesn't technically require them but local municipalities sometimes do. Code just requires that thermal expansion must be controlled when it's present.

[@billallen275]

@@SmedleyPlumbing it's probably the safest option to expect at least a Dual Check valve. Cannot be tested, and I'm seeing lots of them in default meter installations in many locations. Some meters have them built in to the meter assembly itself, or put in with the meter. Not having one with a check valve will damage the system and the check valve itself. Over back-pressures the check disks. Thanks 😊👍

[@johnpeace971]

Why would it go back into the main? I'd just expect my house to have really good water pressure

[@brianreinhardt4050]

@@johnpeace971 In a 3/4" line, how much water VOLUME from the street to the water tank would TRULY backflow into the system when pressurized? I mean seriously this is a farce. The water that actually did go back into the system would never have left it in the first place.

[@512dude]

@@brianreinhardt4050 He demonstrated in the video that for his given temperature rise, about a quart of water is displaced. Assuming negligible expansion of the system you can assume that the volume of water that would backflow is roughly a bit less than that quart, that backflow would only start to flow once the system pressure was greater than the incoming main pressure.

[@carrangil]

One of the best videos on any piece of hardware hands down! Thanks for putting in the time on this!

[@candace2206]

Thank you so much for posting this video. About two years ago, our small town replaced the old water meters. Immediately after this, we noticed water on the floor of our basement at the bottom of our tank water heater, clearly from the PRV. We were having to empty a large plastic Folger's coffee container every 2-3 days. We were also experiencing a short blast of high pressure water whenever we would turn on a faucet. Uneducated about this particular area of plumbing, I was still smart enough to know that none of this was right....at all. It took several days of internet investigation and calls to Town Hall to find out that the new meters changed our water supply to a closed system. Long story short.....I have a Watts thermal expansion tank (honestly...because that's the label on your tanks...lol) arriving this weekend. And I've already installed a secondary inline PRV. I just didn't trust the PRV on the tank for some reason. Again, we cannot thank you enough! You can't imagine the stress you have relieved in this household. This video should be the Gold Standard for all educational videos posted! You truly did a fantastic job. We have subscribed and clicked the bell......you've got us for life!! ❤😊❤

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Boom! That's why we do this! Glad we could help!

[@MVRocinanteGold]

I have a similar story.. I had a girlfriend, she owned her house.. Water company changed her meter, and suddenly valves started leaking everywhere. One week it's a toilet fill valve, then the kitchen faucet.. after a month of non-stop chasing after plumbing malfunctions, I realized she didn't have an expansion tank. I put one in, and all the breakage stopped. The new meter had included a backflow preventer, which meant that with the faucets closed, expansion had no place to go. The 70°F temperature change causes 1/4 gallon of expansion per 40 gallons tank.. 0.625 gallons expansion per 100 gallons.. just over 1/2 of one percent volume change. Without some provision for expansion in the system, the pressure can rise to around 2000 psi, which will defeat most any household valve. 2000 psi is the pressure at 4000 feet deep in the ocean, or about 1/3 of the depth where Titan imploded in 2023.

[@theberrybest]

I've been a plumber for 40+ years. I think you nailed it.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@bobfrancis4289]

Plumbing contractor for 40 years, always knew and respected thermal expansion and your video illustrated it perfectly! Thanks so much! Also, came from your other video where you compared box store water heater to pro grade. I was one of those who thought they were the same.... Not anymore! Great educational videos that are extremely well done!!! You Rock!!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thanks!

[@jefflewis9675]

I don't think there could be a better, more practical informational video on expansion tanks explaining the how, what, and whys of this plumbing device. Bravo, sir!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it helped!

[@darrendexter6125]

Every home owner who has a hint of DIY in their blood should watch this video. Very nicely done sir.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@bernieshort6311]

I am a retired marine engineer and was aware of how an expansion tank works because we had similar but much larger systems on boar made by a company called Newpress. I watched your video just to see how good an explanation you were going to give an I must admit you did an excellent job of explaining how the system works and why you need expansion tanks in a sealed system. The only thing I would add, if I may, is the reason why your expansion tank doesn’t collapse like the water bottle did. Thanks that was a very well explained tutorial with excellent demonstrations. Thank you.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yeah the water heaters are never subjected to negative pressure. Plus they are more durable than a plastic bottle.

[@sailthebigorb7174]

No one could have done a more thorough and effective job of explaining all this as you did. I learned so much. Great job!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@plumbersteve]

I'm in St. Louis. Customers, especially older ones, are all so skeptical of "that blue ball thing that you put on my water heater". I've developed a pretty good understanding of thermal expansion and I feel like I'm able to explain it pretty well, but this video is a game changer. Thanks for putting in the time.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

That's exactly why we made the video! Put this info to use!

[@db8926]

30 years as a master plumber, and I have to say this is the single best explanation I've ever seen on the subject. As simple as an expansion tank is, the clear plastic bottle put's everything into proper perspective. You sir should be commended for your work in making this and many of your other videos.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@SmileyDave-h5z]

I was told you don't need a thermal expansion tank unless there is a back flow preventer installed in the system at the supply side.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@SmileyDave-h5z correct.

[@rickrude9523]

5 minutes into this vid.and floored at the amount of info.Seems this guy was born to teach!!Kudos.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@asaelmuro8238]

I am a plumber apprentice and I absolutely love the way you teach and break things down and the simplest of ways

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@GarreTTTurncoaT]

I truly appreciate the amount of time and effort put into this video, setting up the visuals and also editing it all together.. with incredible quality both audio and video. Very hard to come by videos this great today.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@DanielinLaTuna]

Fascinating; thanks for sharing. I didn’t know about the function of the relief tank - I thought it was to prevent water hammer. Originally I didn’t have the pressure tank in my system. Last time I replaced the water heater, the plumber took it upon himself to add the pressure tank. Now I see he was a competent technician who kept up with best industry practice.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Exactly! They do help with hammer as well!

[@adroper62]

Phenomenal, detailed, and informative presentation. We are in the process of replacing our 17-year-old water heater, and I was skeptical of the need for an expansion tank since the purpose of the T&P valve is to relieve pressure. Our electric water heater typically runs 6-10 minutes cycles 4-5 times daily (Phoenix, AZ). I have never seen any evidence the pressure relief system has tripped on due to excessive pressure. The relief drain pipe runs outside of our house, and I haven't seen any water coming from it since we purchased the home. Thanks to this video, I see the benefit of having the expansion tank as the primary pressure overload manager, so we will add one to the installation.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad we could help!

[@DYIIdeas]

Been in the plumbing industry for 20+ years. The way this video is put together is PERFECT, definitely knows plumbing very well. Just make sure to run video at 1.25 speed so that it feels normal.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks! Yeah I always crank the speed on these long ones too.

[@Viczhu09]

This is the most lifesome lesson that I have ever learned in the industry! Bravo !

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Love it!

[@jj-dl5wd]

Thanks for taking your time to show us this. Excellent work!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

You're welcome! And thank you!

[@latissue8887]

Many thanks. I'm a landlord of 20 properties and never thought it was important to spend the extra for an expansion tank. Guess I have work todo installing some expansion tanks! Very good video. Explained well.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad I could help

[@jaykoerner]

Depends on the local regulations(some require backflow preventors on all properties, some on just new, and some require install during renovation) and whether the properties have backflow preventors if on municipal water, or if on well water if it's one with a check valve to keep prime and no pressure tank(really uncommon) If your water can go backwards and pass pressure past the supply then a expansion tank will really only help mitigate possible freezing issues where ice physically plugs the pipe and sends pressure into the house that way

[@chrisriggs6267]

Can you learn everything about everything then teach it all to us just like this? Great job, appreciate the time and effort you put in this video for us.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

I appreciate that!

[@johnwerner9695]

I'm renting a house the plumber they sent out didn't even know how to test the system I found out that he's a apprentice plumber and works in rough install. Thank you very much for the effort. You are keeping me at JACK of all trades

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Training other plumbers was taken into consideration when we created this video.

[@mikesims6300]

Good job , after 50 years we moved to a house with an expansion tank and I knew what it is for. Thank you

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

You're welcome!

[@tommartinez62]

As a retired plumber of 48 years, I used to be puzzled at how many people did not know basic physics. Now I realize my Earth Science teacher in 9th grade was a jewel, Thanks Mr. Rice, Central High, Cheyenne Wyo. 1969

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Comes in handy sometimes!

[@bojanglesobrien6883]

Awareness principle, it blows my mind that people don’t naturally understand the things I regularly look at. Then, I remind myself that I don’t know jack shit about computers compared to every single person I know.

[@tommartinez62]

@@bojanglesobrien6883 True, though one is actually the world around us, we feel touch and see from birth. The other is a man made object

[@johnscruggs5379]

Excellent info and spot on. I have been trying to relay this info to my water heater customers for years. I believe that all current metered water systems have a check valve that maintains line pressure and p revents pressure pushing back to main feed, which means the expansion tank is all the more impoetant.

[@tommartinez62]

@@johnscruggs5379 the older a city's water system is the less chance there will be a check valve.

[@jorseirer]

This might be the best home systems video I’ve ever seen. Amazing demonstration, thank you.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thanks!

[@andrewsimmons8157]

Wasn't sure if I was going to watch the whole video but I am so glad I did. Best demonstration video in the history of ever! Thank you so much for the break down of everything. Amazing Job!!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thanks!

[@EngRMP]

Man, thanks so much for your work to make this video. As an electrical engineer I would never trust myself to do your experiments... but, you covered the physics and engineering perfectly!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you very much!

[@andymurray8007]

I wish my plumber had watched this. Instead I put up with 13 yrs of a dripping T/P valve, then finally installed one myself. Thanks for educating us all!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Sorry to hear that. Glad you fixed it though!

[@FA-44]

Absolutely awesome video. Many engineering courses teach this science, but you gave us a great visualization of this application in the practical world and you also demonstrated the things that can go wrong if you don’t address it properly with components like expansion tanks. You also showed what negative pressure can do to a thin walled cylinder (like a water heater tank) when negative line pressure / vacuum collapsed the plastic bottle. I know in some older cities in Massachusetts, you need a vacuum break on your hot water heater tank. As I’m told, if a fire truck starts sucking water from a nearby hydrant and you do not have a water line check valve in your home, then it could result in the collapse of your hot water heater tank, so awesome demonstration. Thank you for pulling this together.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yeah I've seen pics of collapsed water heaters in high rise buildings that didn't have a vacuum breaker.

[@stevepreskitt283]

Most water heaters today have a hole in the dip tube that will act as a vacuum breaker if the tank is subjected to negative pressure, but it never hurts to have a separate one on the cold water supply.

[@berts4877]

Great video. I never had thermal expansion tanks on homes I owned or lived in near Chicago. I have one in my home near Dallas and had to replace it this past weekend when the old one sprung a leak. I enjoyed getting an understanding of its purpose.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Oh wow!

[@davemeise2192]

This has been an excellent video. Great explanations and demonstrations. I have always wondered why expansion tanks became common on plumbing systems. Well done!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@CaptK-py8rq]

One of the best no-bs demonstrations I've watched on youtube to date! Very well done, thank you!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@guianders]

I've been in the hvac business for 20 yrs and had boilers with hot water element fail every 2 yrs leak and now it makes perfect sense thank you for your detailed info and dedication 😮

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

You bet!

[@rzh3443]

I think you about covered every angle on this ! I installed a pressure reducing valve on our system in addition to the expansion tank. The PRV definitely closes to system but I believe very essential to reduce pressure to fixtures to 50 psi max. They will last longer. Our input pressure is over 80 psi at the meter . I also think that the expansion tank may prolong the tank life by retinue the amount of expansion/contraction inside it. For those who think 80 plus psi is nice, be aware that most well pumps only deliver within a 30-50 psi range.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@jeffreysmith2223]

One other thing you should add to your discussion is the potential effect of added pressure to any weak pipe connection in the system, for instance a buried elbow hidden inside a living space wall. For anyone still using Polybutylene pipes, a thermal expansion tank could mean significant added life to their water supply system. I did an in depth study of thermal expansion tanks a few years ago and I now have them both at my home and my vacation home as well. Thanks for the video, the visualization of the water expansion and the baloon in the bottle were highly instructive, great lateral thinking on your part.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks. We could go on for a while on the damages thermal expansion might cause. Or next video will highlight the worst case scenario....🤯

[@williamwiseman5083]

Wow! By far the best video on expansion tanks on the web!!! Great job thank you very much for doing this and sharing

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thanks!

[@Tomrocksu2]

AWESOME video dude, and VERY tutorial. I've been a home builder for quite some time, and this has NEVER been expalined to me in a way that I could ever understand. I watched your entire video and this now makes COMPLETE sense to me. THANK YOU for taking the time to go through this in SUCH great detail!!!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

We aim to please.

[@peteraq5501]

I am a plumber in Australia, and this video is the best video that I have ever seen on expansion tanks. Well done mate. In Australia, we don’t put expansion tanks on our hot water heaters. We solely rely on the PTR valve. Most cases our hot water heaters are located on the outside of the house.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

You might not have the redundant check valves that we have here.

[@peteraq5501]

@@SmedleyPlumbing We have a check valve on the cold water inlet supply so there is no cross connection between the hot and cold water supply. We are told by the manufacturers to release the PTR valve once every six months.

[@ph33lix]

Fantastic and comprehensive look at current plumbing best-practices. Definitely learned a thing or two for my home. Bravo!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Th3Su8]

Great explanation of the expansion tank and why it is needed. When I bought my 60 year old house a few years ago I installed a whole house filter system. Along with the filters I put in a PRV, which my house did not have originally. I found that the water pressure coming into my house was around 120 - 125 psi. I set the PRV to 60 psi and thought everything was good. A few days later my filters were leaking and the pressure had increased back to 120 psi after the filters. I thought the PRV had gone bad and the mfg sent me a replacement, the same thing happened. Then I did some digging around and figured out my problem was there was never an expansion tank installed in my home. I put one in and have since never had any issues. I recently replaced my 20 year old water heater in this house and found that the T&P valve was non functional. You would think that a home inspector would test these things when you pay them to check the home for issues before buying it.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

There are a lot of things that the everyday person would think or hope a home inspector would check. But unfortunately they aren't as thorough as we would like them to be once we find something wrong with the home.

[@miked3764]

Seeing the demonstrations helps me understand the concept tremendously! Nice job 👍

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@sergiovega1752]

Kudos to your for the clearest explanation of the workings of the expansion tank. I did not have an expansion tank until I had my water heater replaced 4 months ago. The installer had the expansion tank installed but did not check the pressure in the tank.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yeah, those plumbers can be a little lazy sometimes!

[@wirdremloo9102]

You are a phenomenal instructor on this subject, and probably a excellent parent as well, keep up the good work

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@irgtk]

I am on a municipal water system with no backflow preventer installed. Now I know why an expansion tank was not installed on my water system.👍🏻

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Quite possibly. It's always good to test with a pressure gauge during a heat cycle of the water heater just to make sure.

[@sre2007]

After learning the concepts. Knowing if you have a cold supply that can accept water pressure (no checkvalve, regulator or pump) will help answer the question: Do I need a Thermal Expansion tank?

[@scruples671]

Another big thing to know is whether your incoming water to your house has a one way check valve at the water meter. If there is one you are defiently going to need an expansion tank. In my area there is no check valves for the incoming water supply. So an expansion tank is not required. Great demonstration.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yep. Best way to test for the presence on a check valve is with a pressure gauge.

[@dubmob151]

Isn't a check valve required to prevent potential contamination of the municipal water supply?

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@dubmob151 yes. You're exactly right.

[@Sean_y4k2l5]

also if you are pumping from a well or cistern... in that case there is already a large expansion tank, so putting another little one on the heater is redundant... right?

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@Sean_y4k2l5 correct. If you're on a well or cistern, your bladder tank also serves as an expansion tank.

[@ricdonato4328]

Outstanding explanation, thank you. Being from the old school when we were informed for the need an expansion tank it was perplexing. What are and for, what reason do we now needed one when for decades there were not such a thing. They told us "it is now code" without any further explanation. Again, thank you for your video. In your next video mount the camera. It is unnerving watching a video with the camera bouncing around, where do we focus? Oh, please remove the background music, it is very distracting and annoying. It is beyond me why KZbin content creators think it cool-cute-necessary, having music playing over their voice. We came to hear you, not fight the music. Many folks have hearing difficulties, thus when we attempt to hear the spoken works and there is music as well, we cannot turn up the volume without turning up the volume of the music. In a word frustrating. To understand what you are saying what we must do is turn on the CC. Hope this makes sense.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks for the feedback

[@JavaJazzMusic]

Holy smokes that was one of the best demonstrations I've ever seen... thanks you so much for that brilliantly detailed example!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thank you!

[@PizzaResistance]

Fantastic video for a guy that just bought his first house with hot water baseboard heat. I realize that you are showing us your heated fresh water system but the principles also apply to a boiler in my baseboard heating system. That spaghetti farm of pipes that is under the house makes more sense now! Thank you!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Spaghetti farm is a good description!

[@firstlastnamehere6972]

Wow! What a great lecture and demo! Thank you.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@slomotrainwreck]

I've taught apprentices in the past and your presentation is excellent! I have one tip and one question: TIP - I've used something called a "bottle bushing", it's a plastic adapter bushing that you glue into a PVC socket and it uses an O-ring to seal the joint between the bushing and bottle, I've not used mine under system pressure but for my use it's been leak free. A simple google search will take you to the website where I got mine from. QUESTION - Can you mount the expansion tank above the system piping (essentially up-side down) to help with system drain down i.e. when closing and winterizing a cottage for the winter?

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks for the tip! Yes expansion tanks can be installed in any direction. Some have commented on here that they prefer installing them on the top of the pipe so sediment doesn't build up in them.

[@integr8er66]

This is all very simple, but what is usually missed is that you do NOT need one of these unless you have a backflow preventer. most old houses do NOT have such a thing, so when the water begins to expand it simply pushes the extra volume back into the water main. Water supply systems use centrifugal pumps, and thus water can be pushed backwards through them, and on a huge city system, there is always a tap open somewhere.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Having a pressure regulator valve would also require the need for a thermal expansion tank.

[@integr8er66]

@@SmedleyPlumbing Nope, not unless it has an integral backflow preventer which I can tell you mine doesn't. A regulator alone doesn't stop backflow. I added a regulator 20 years ago because my water pressure is 125 psi, no issues at all, in just the last couple months I added an exp tank because the stupid local inspector doesn't know his ars from a hole in the ground, and the pressure still rises about 15 psi after you stop running water as the tank heats, but at least it doesn't have to reach the 125 psi main pressure before it has relief.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@integr8er66 if incoming pressure is elevated (say 120 psi) and then the reducing valve brings that pressure down to 70 psi, the interior pressure would need to build up to over 120 psi before a bypass PRV will allow reverse flow. So you're right back to the elevated pressure you were trying to protect against with the prv until someone opens a faucet.

[@-.__.__.-Rad]

So… no danger of 155psi pressure buildup when water is supplied from the city with no back flow obstruction In my case, the water comes in at 60psi

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@-.__.__.-Rad all depends if the city has a check valve in their meter.

[@willforeman74]

This was a great video helping me understand thermal expansion tanks. This guy is a great communicator!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@Thad811]

The best video explaining thermal expansion tanks and water heating functions! Excellent work!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@stevebabiak6997]

To add a few things that might help those who aren’t quite aware of symptoms and causes … First, don’t do testing like that in your own home. Learn by watching the video, not by being a copycat. Residential plumbing codes in most jurisdictions in the USA have an upper limit of 80 PSI as the maximum pressure to feed plumbing fixtures. In many places the incoming municipal water will have a pressure well above that (my house had 105 PSI when I last measured it), so a pressure reducing valve (PRV) is installed just past the water meter. As far as I know, all PRVs for residential water prevent back flow to the water meter; and many water meters also prevent back flow into the water service lines. So expanded water isn’t able to flow back into the water service lines in most cases. So where does it go if there is no expansion tank and the T&P isn’t dripping? Old ball float toilet valves were good for letting the expanded water flow through them and then down the overflow tube ;) Old faucets with washers and seats would often have a wear point that would let the expanded water drip through. So it’s quite possible that a dripping faucet or running toilet is an indicator that you need an expansion tank.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yes sir. Some prv's allow for back flow but the interior pressure must exceed the incoming pressure before it can happen. In those situations, you're right back to the elevated pressure you were trying to prevent by adding the PRV.

[@Domme857]

I bought this water heater kzbin.infoUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks,!

[@0ddSavant]

I used to live in the Midwest, now I’m in East Phoenix. Almost all residential water distribution is above ground out here. I can remember when I’d only been out here a few months, I was home in the middle of the day and tried to take a shower when it was ~115° outside. On full cold the water was just shy of scalding, 120°+. It was at the extreme upper limit of tolerable for me - and then only for exceedingly short periods. So yeah, no doing laundry or showering in the middle of the day unless you’ve got some MacGyver projects already in flight. Another piece of trivia showing Arizona is not a suitable environment for humans: there’s a phenomenon of people in motorcycle/traffic accidents, or pedestrians struck by vehicles, wherein the victim ends up on the blacktop and suffering more serious injuries from having laid or fallen on the ground than from the collision which threw them to the ground. Stay where there’s trees & grass & seasons & most of the people on the interstate aren’t from LA. Where using your turn signal isn’t considered a sign of weakness. I’ve wandered off topic and into a nostalgic rant, my apologies. Enjoy your content. Cheers!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks! Enjoy AZ for us!

[@willl3712]

The best demonstration about the purpose of an expansion tank, and how it functions. Job well done, well done!!!!!!!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@waldrobfarms3946]

For the first time, I had pleasure clicking the thumbs up 👍🏽 button.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@keithq.s.c9284]

Wow! A rare and great lecture by a plumber who knows the "how" of the trade and also understand the "why" of the theory behind it. Would love to see you shine some light on how to properly charge a thermal expansion tank. Is the factory charge of 40? psi good for all residential houses?

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

We could do a video on that soon! 1. Measure your water pressure 2. Turn off water to the home 3. Remove existing expansion tank 4. Using a tire pump, air up new tank yo match water pressure. 5. Apply thread tape and or pipe dope to threads. 6. Install new tank 7. Restore water service making sure to open faucets and flush toilets to bleed out the air.

[@balint133]

@@SmedleyPlumbing I'm just a DIY-er but last time I installed an expansion tank I installed it then measured the pressure then closed the inlet valve of the water tank itself and left a hot water tap open in the bathroom. I simply aired the tank to the correct pressure then turned everything back on. I think it's faster/easier than shutting the main valve off :)

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@balint133 yeah that works also. The most important thing is that you are airing up the expansion tank without water pressure pushing against the other side of the bladder

[@josevazquez1042]

@@balint133 how did you come up with that on your own? 😊

[@Mark-lq3sb]

The city I live in makes it mandatory. 14 years ago the guy installing my present water heater told me next time you'll have to have one. Still waiting for my 14 year old water heater to start leaking......

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

They are required today.

[@TheReal1953]

Historically, this wasn't an issue in municipalities. What has happened since is that the water companies have installed new meters that are 'tighter' internally. The excess pressure from residential WH's formally used to travel towards the city's meters and beyond. This caused them all kinds of issues on their pumping side. Now, the excess pressures can no longer pass into the city systems. However, residential customers didn't understand why their T&P valves were suddenly seeping/leaking one day. And in the beginning, when this started to be a problem, municipalities were silent to the plumbers and the public about what was happening. I remember this well. Now it's common knowledge, but it wasn't always so. The municipalities didn't want to be blamed for leaking, in house HW services when all they were doing was protecting their pumping stages/equipment.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Also the EPA started requiring more check valves in the municipal water system. Those check valves help ensure that water only leaves the system and can't return.

[@TheReal1953]

@@SmedleyPlumbing Yes, I see this a lot in municipalities now; check valves right against the meters. Required too if you have a separate meter for irrigation as a fight against back-siphonage.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

@@TheReal1953 yep. And thus the need for more thermal expansion control.

[@kevinh9262]

If you are responsible for the plumbing setup in your video... 👏👏👏! Beautifully done!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@thomasazzopardi4760]

That is the most understandable explanation I have ever seen to express the need for expansion tanks on water heaters. I appreciate all the visuals you used to demonstrate what is really happening inside that water heater. Awesome job.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@harrydoherty8299]

i’ve had water heaters in the same house with the same water meter and no expansion tank . lived here 35 years . never had anything other than the vacume relief valve and the pressure and temp relief valve . period.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Not all homes need them. Consider yourself lucky!

[@miker.1804]

Just BS.. I worked in restaurants for 40yrs and we had pressurized tanks on equipment forever. It was there to smooth out the pressure on equipment so it was steady. This guy just proved himself wrong, you can pressurize air, so the tank is useless when the heated water “expands” it there to keep your house pressure from hammering. The TPI pressure relief valve is there as safety valve for high pressure from over heating.

[@biglew1161]

Not all houses will need an expansion tank on the hot water heater. Older houses without a check valve on the inlet the expanded water will increase the pressure on the system water does not compress so the increased pressure will try to push the water backwards towards the supply. Houses with a check valve on the inlet the water has no place to go so the increased water pressures will try to expand the pipes. The expansion tank gives the water a place to go. The air in the expansion tank is set to the same psi as the incoming water supply. When the water is heated it expands into the tank. The air bladder in the tank compresses. When the water cools the air in the expansion tank will push that water back into the system. Your pressurized tanks in those restaurants were likely a very different setup that a residential hot water heating system.

[@ikepatrick9154]

This is really a "compression" tank, not an "expansion" tank. There's a difference. The compression tank compresses the trapped air in the tank, separated from the water by the diaphragm, while an expansion tank is open to the atmosphere. FYI 🤔

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

I see where you can think that. However, you'll never find one by calling it a compression tank. The code book doesn't even use that terminology.

[@tripjet999]

Please look at the camera while speaking . Sometimes, it appears as if you don't know where the camera is.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

We filmed this one with multiple cameras. So sometimes we flip to the other camera. But that k you for your feedback!

[@BeeTreeGuy]

Awesome video. My brother-in-law is a plumber and he was trying to explain a lot of this to me, I wasn't quite sure what he was talking about. Now I totally understand after seeing it in action. Thanks for the outstanding and very educational video.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

That is awesome!

[@cptsb63]

Thanks a lot for spending your time and resource to improve our knowledge of the water thermal expansion. You have done a phenomenal job in plumbing expansion knowledge. Keep up the good jobs. Thank you.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@walterholzer939]

Shame shame, First of all you did not tell all your viewers weather or not you were on city water or well water or if you had a pressure reducing valve on your city water and you know what a difference that would make The only time you would need a expansion tank on a hot water system other than a heating Boiler is if you had a closed heat system. When you are connected to the city water there will never be a pressure rise from a water heater heating up because it will expand to the city water system and if you were connected to a well system you would have a well expansion tank on that also, which will also work for the heat expansion of the water heater heating up. In most cases dam near all you will not need a expansion tank on your water heater. Waste of you money.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

If only you were correct. Aside from being required by code, they are more commonly needed and not.

[@AuditAmplifier]

Why do people rant like this about things they don't fully understand. "Shame, shame..." 🤦 And it's, "whether," not, "weather."

[@JB-gr6om]

I have lived in 4 homes in modern suburbia with many water heaters…. And never had an expansion tank.

[@miker.1804]

People who write codes and the rules sometimes are just academics, who just read the book and have no common sense.

[@briansmeback8912]

Probably one of the best KZbin videos on anything I’ve ever seen. Ever. If you don’t teach or hold instruction classes, you should. Fantastic video. Well done sir. 😎

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Wow, thank you!

[@davedfran6082]

The method you used to figure out how much is still in the tank is genius! Love your videos ❤

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you!

[@steve7875]

Awesome demonstration. Just purchased a home built in 2009, and surprisingly the newly replaced water heater in 2019 had no expansion tank. Going to get one installed right away. Thank you!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it helped!

[@dembandure891]

Greetings from the Gambia🇬🇲. Im a plumber in my 5th year apprenticeship. You can follow nice meeting my fellow plumbers😊❤

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Welcome!

[@dembandure891]

@@SmedleyPlumbing thanks. Nice works you got there I really appreciate your efforts

[@gabbymoss3657]

Thanks!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you!

[@thomasgersitz338]

Really explained the purpose of a thermal expansion tank. Fine job.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@berkscatbill5582]

Good show. I have an old house with many old copper connections throughout. I just replaced my 1985, A.O. Smith gas 50 gal with the same make and size. What a difference this new one makes. Even though I have an open system ( no backflow or check valve at the meter) your video has convinced me to install an expansion tank AND a supply regulator. The last thing I need is an old solder joint breaking loose in a 100 year old house. Thanks again

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad we could help!

[@bryanmoss9015]

Great job. I'm electrically inclined and hate plumbing. You did an amazing job explaining this to me in a basic and simple way. Thank you!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@jeffpruden3234]

Now i know about thermal expansion !!! Very professional video . Had no clue what those tanks were ?? Thanks for putting this out in you tube land .

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

You bet!

[@moonjee505]

Thanks for the training. There was no such training back 10 years ago. I have been lacking such info. Your training gives me good tips in Plumbing. Thanks.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Great to hear!

[@jayaddison8032]

One of the best educational videos ive ever seen on youtube. You explained it perfectly sir. If only my highschool teachers would of had your teaching skills. Or possibly I wasn't paying attention back then. Thank you for the great lesson.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@danrhoads2831]

I came across this video and thought it was so cool I showed my brother-in-law who is an electrical engineer and has many patents I just wanted to let you know! Thank you for the information

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you!

[@rushd45]

Loved your comment about AZ cold water temp... I'm in Tucson and during this summer (2023) there were a couple weeks where the cold water was warm/hot enough so that my showers didn't need any hot water...

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Yep. You get hot or hotter. Lol

[@laneburgess1643]

Best video I have seen explaining the expansion tank operation and purpose.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@georgewelker853]

Thank You for nerding out on this! People don’t understand this stuff but definitely need to understand that

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

It's very important. Especially if you're trying to make these sales to customers.

[@31raleigh]

Yes my friend , you did wonderful job for mechsnical contractor

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you

[@johnlysic6727]

Excellent demonstration and explanation - thank you very much - my son bought an older home and the water heater pressure valve was leaking - I replaced it with a new one and now it is leaking again - now I know why - heading to buy an expansion tank and another pressure valve - very cool indeed

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Excellent!

[@John-dp3ln]

One of the best demonstrations I’ve ever seen. Very well done!

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thanks!

[@ahbelhealy3665]

Thank you man. This was so educational. It helped me better understand the workings of an expansion tank and a water heater. I just started my apprenticeship program so I was really glad I found this video.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Love it! Stick with it and you'll do great things!

[@jeffysfuntime]

Hi from north of ya -Iowa- the way you speak so humbly makes me feel more thankful that I am in the right trade . Wish I had more time to work out a plan to work for myself and make people happy . Raising 4 kids takes lotta time away for things you wanna do and venture ! Keep it up boss !

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

It's a great trade to be part of!

[@certifiedpersonaltrainer1173]

Great video, plumber told me about an expansion tank and I had an idea but didn't really know how it worked. Thanks.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad to help

[@jamescoberly]

This is the absolute best video on thermal expansion. Thank you

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@johnledger3010]

Superb video, explains why I had a problem with the release valve expelling water and why I needed a new expansion vessel.

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Glad it helped!

[@Frameffer]

Brother! Please tell me your family homeschools. This was flawless! Well done and a thank you for adding to our curriculum. :)

[@SmedleyPlumbing]

Thank you!