Do I need an amp? How much power do headphones ACTUALLY need? - Myths about power

[@Kuzushi42]

I'd like to see a video on how using an amp vs not using one affects the sound quality of headphones, i.e. what things can I look for to know whether my headphones are underpowered, or how much performance am I leaving on the table by not using an amp on a headphone that is supposedly hard to drive.

[@ManoharSingh-dg8ih]

My phone could only derive DT 770 pro at say around low-half volume, where as Macbook pro was able to derive it to very high volume. As for quality of sound it doesn't change, maybe loudness effect can appear like a change.

[@Phoenix_of_the]

how many ohms @@ManoharSingh-dg8ih

[@ManoharSingh-dg8ih]

@@Phoenix_of_the 80

[@alondite215]

@@ManoharSingh-dg8ih This is flat-out wrong. Rarely is an amp actually required to get adequate listening volumes, the reason you amp is to supply adequate power to properly control the driver through any dynamic swing you may throw at it. A properly-amped driver is faster, more dynamic, detailed, and more controlled as a whole.

[@izumi2165]

​@@alondite215I've been unable to hear a lot of things in songs when using my he400se with a samsung A31. yes, it did get loud, but most of the audio wasn't even there, especially voices, since these headphones aren't as front facing with vocals. to get a decent amount of detail I had to crank the volume near max since the lower 70% was near unhearable even when in a completely silent room.

[@brockercheddlie]

would love a vid of an explanation of the differences between class a, a/b, d amps

[@Bhatakti_Hawas]

Yes plz

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

Only Class A amp that I consider as 100.00000% Class A is a pure single ended triode (no parallel tubes, directly or indirectly heated or triode strapped without any option to switch to pentode) output transformer coupled amp. The rest of them that claim Class A are not Class A in my book since they have tricks to switch to A/B when power requirements increases beyond a certain point or has a push-pull /pentode/ultra-linear mode, or it's a balanced driven triode amp).

[@williamstevenich]

​@@NexusS4GIceJelly why does it being single ended matter?

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

@@williamstevenich A balanced amp uses push-pull which is Class A/B because each op-amp or tube or transistor only amplifies one set of peaks (positve amplitude peaks for example or R+/L+) and that other tube / op-amp / transistor that amplfies the negative peaks (R-/L-) is momentarily off (50% duty cycle). Manufacturers add something called "Class A Bias" and claim that at a certain power requirements, these transistors can turn on 100% of the time (aka 100% duty cycle) thus amplifying all signals (one tube is R+/R-, complete sine wave in pure Class A) while the other tube/op amp etc amplifies the L+/L-

[@billywindsock9597]

Easy, a, a-b sound different and interesting, d is dull shite. Bit of an overarching generalisation, but an opinion nonetheless.

[@maestherc]

Very succinct, very clear and very *needed* tutorial on this subject. I design vacuum tube amplification gear professionally, and the subject matter you cover here is *very* commonly misunderstood by audio enthusiasts. Kudos!

[@guillermoleoni]

Thank you, it is the clearest explanation on this subject that I have seen!

[@Jack-di6rc]

This is super insightful even for someone who has been in the hobby for 5 years. Thank you golden.

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

So... I listened to a long discussion by you with others about amplifier gain verses power. Id never really thought about this before. It turns out that I experimented with various headphones with my headphone amp , using low gain with my high sensitivity phones, and medium gain on my low sensitivity phones. Before, i was running all my headphones at high gain. Anyhow- im running my amp at 3/4s power at low or medium gain, and my headphones sound better! Cleaner , more dynamic- not different , but actually improved, particularily in terms of bass. Im not sure this is what you meant. This was the result, however. I just wanted to say thank you because this discussion was neaningful for me. You guys know your stuff!

[@richardshevkun7871]

I've been waiting for such a vid to spread around for an eternity. Tanks a lot

[@gdemirjian]

Great video, Cameron. I use a digital db meter ($20 Amazon) and shoot for 80-85db at abut 50-60% amp volume at low gain setting (I typically only use high gain for a little more note weight at low listening levels, like the old-fashioned loudness function). After doing this with about a dozen sources I have gotten to know my headphone driving need rather well. Now I can more easily look at the impedance and sensitivity of a headphone and basically know the ballpark power source needed.

[@koustuvkanungo9873]

Just pointing a db meter at a headphone cup isn't a good measure of their SPL, you'll end up underestimating it by a lot.

[@dukdive]

He also literally said % of amp volume is doing it wrong

[@gdemirjian]

@@koustuvkanungo9873 the meter tip inserts between the pads as I press them to seal around the meter tip. It is not meant to be scientific measure. I use this for benchmarking. Very useful to protect me ears too. Thanks.

[@gdemirjian]

@@dukdive Cameron's method is more accurate but my method is a quick way within an acceptable SD to benchmark my listening levels for understanding my headphones power needs and to protect my ears. Thanks.

[@CheapMessiah]

This is a great video, favorited for future reference as it saves a lot of writting time when explaining to people how headphones work. Personally i found out that people tend to understand better the concept of power to sound pressure conversion when you explain to them that the headphone impedance determines the amplifier maximum power, and then sensitivity is how efficiently a driver can convert that power to sound pressure. For some reason explaining it as "steps" makes that information easier to digest.

[@O.G.LIL-MAN]

I find that most people who arent WILLING audiophiles really don't care about this. Audiophiles care...most people will still buy those crappy Bleats, Bosé and Cowin Headphones off Amazon. I've seen this too many times where most people dont care about better sound and the technical of a headphone as much as we do. They just don't and I'm resigned to say that's okay.

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

@@O.G.LIL-MAN we are not taking about those people.

[@ardatubes]

Finally, a clear explanation of impedance and sensitivity and current for headphones and DACs. Thank you for the video!

[@ranelime]

I really enjoy your thorough descriptions. You have a way of delivering lots of information in an entertaining way!

[@tharun7290]

I'm a returning viewer and the arrival of Mr.GoldenSound has been golden. His technical expertise is very much welcome and I wish more reviewers in the space would take a more precise approach sometimes.

[@howardskeivys4184]

Excellent explanation. Clear, concise and articulate. More explanatory videos like this would be great.

[@Lishtenbird]

I'd like the topic of balanced cables for headphones explored in a similar way.

[@maidsandmuses]

There are a lot of myths surrounding the use of balanced cables with headphones, not helped by the different cable topologies different brands headphones have, and whether the headphones are passive transducers or an active (e.g. noise-cancelling) one. For "traditional" topologies where each L/R capsule has its own 2-core cable feed and the "grounds" are tied together at the headphone jack end of the cable, if switching to a balanced cable results in an audible difference that means there is something wrong with the grounding topology and/or termination inside the non-balanced headphone amp. A passive headphone itself (excl. cable) is by definition a balanced device as both "ground" and "live" feeds terminate in the same impedance.

[@dangerzone007]

Also you should have mentioned that the impedance of dynamic headphones varies significantly with frequency.

[@GoldenSound]

Yep! This is also an important factor to consider

[@blainelacross5311]

Although it's worth noting that the nominal impedance should be near to the lowest impedance, so that variation in impedance can only make for LESS power draw at some frequencies. For more power to be drawn from a voltage source, impedance must fall (which does happen in some IEMs), and technically the standard is that headphone impedance is "supposed" to be specified at or near the very lowest impedance.

[@markrussellsmith]

There are certainly a lot of misconceptions about this.

[@Joelsfilmer]

@@GoldenSound But since the impedance bump of dynamic drivers are at the same place as the resonance frequency, the power required ends up at plus/minus zero, right?

[@radstd]

@@GoldenSound How do i know amp characteristics of built-in phone amp?

[@davidwright2379]

This has to be one of the best videos explaining the spl and amp power requirements I've seen for quite some time, extremely informative and detailed, thankyou, my btr5 dac amp no worries with a 300 ohm drop 6xx or sennheiser 650, cheers mate.

[@HifiSammy]

Great video. I appreciate your vids and how you cover these topics. You somehow manage to keep it simple while hitting all of the important tech points that we need to understand. Thank you Golden Sound!

[@sy0635]

Wow this video was extremely helpful thank you. More people and reviewers need to see this. Alot more misconceptions about amps out there than I thought.

[@gibbson4ever]

Very good explanations

[@Tarnith]

So many people get tripped up on impedance != efficiency and more refers to voltage vs current driving. This is a great video to send to most people asking about headphones, succinct overview and hits all the main points really well. Cheers.

[@Saitama07]

Thank you for this ❤

[@dl88889]

Great video. Im a beginner and you taught me everything I needed to get my first dac amp. Thank you!

[@CostaBatis]

Great info, thank you! Keep up the good work!

[@nunyabusiness3612]

Brilliant as always Cameron, thank you. That was such a clear and succinct explanation of the matter at hand.

[@lekmannen9990]

Amazing video, I learned alot. How about a video about rise time and slew rate in different classes of amps. Thanks!

[@westernartifact580]

Good one.

[@knightwolf200612]

Very nice, excellent explanation of all power details! Exactly what I needed to know. Thanks!

[@force330]

Excellent video! I learn more really. Thanks team!!

[@desking8683]

Thanks, that was a knowledgeable and succinct presentation. Very well done! Am wondering if a presentation on this topic with a small assortment of amps and headphones would be appropriate for events such as CanJam or other HiFi shows? There is nothing quite like personally engaging in the points mentioned, (watts, impedance and sensitivity), than through first hand experience for those new to the hobby that is a passion for many. Really enjoy the conversations between and collaborative attitude of the people on The Headphone Show.

[@razisn]

Technically sensitivity should be expressed as a function of voltage not power, the way many (but far from all) speaker manufacturers express it nowadays. If you express 'sensitivity' as a function of power (wattage) what you are actually describing is 'nominal' efficiency. Nominal because it depends on impedance and the quoted impedance is 'nominal' because it often varies with frequency.

[@kellustzall3057]

100% informative goodness I need in my life

[@Buddythunder1]

Excellent vid! I've been vaguely concerned that my 2W Bottlehead amp might be under-driving my HE6SE's. They sound lovely to me though and the amp is easily able to power them beyond comfort-level. With a more nuanced view of power, I now see I needn't have worried.

[@giorgosapo4508]

Amazing video and wonderful analysis/explanation 😁

[@barlow2976]

Just what I was looking for, thanks.

[@louiev.3367]

A lot of my music library of the 80s doesn't get remasters so I have music that's so quite then the next track gets absurdly loud

[@deadline7610]

Nicely Done. Since your asking. How about a video taking tier groups of iems & headphone (well known ) priced from $50- & up and pair them with a dac/amp price appropriate for that specific gear. Showing how an inexpensive stack will handle the iem or headphone just fine and what a tier up in price offers :) Including the info. from this video and the power calculator :) Thanks

[@OmmerSyssel]

Loads of highly experienced freaks have long shared that sort of knowledge since the dawn of the Internet 😎🎼👀🎶

[@BobbyDigital6411]

Extremely informative video!

[@joolibreakingmore]

Love every video with goldensound! Such great explanations. Could you explore the topic of what constitutes a well mastered song, and how best to music songs for testing headphones?

[@chrispapa6700]

Very informative video great job.

[@dm41nman64]

Wow! Thank you so much @goldensound and @HeadphoneShow for this more straightforward approach and explanation, another added knowledge.

[@simonzinc-trumpetharris852]

Excellent info.

[@fishinthejar]

This was a topic that needed a good video, and ggood this video is. Thank Golden, good shit!

[@kwicksandz]

I have resisted the urge of upgraditis with my amp because lots of people at release called it the last amp you will ever need (thx 789). I’ve seen certain audio reviewers say it’s boring or clinical but it has always worked for me and having 3 outputs that run simultaneously has been great for listening parties with guests. It can run my hd800, q701, hd650 and many others to ear bleeding levels at the same time😂

[@En_Joshi-Godrez]

Your comment is completely meaningless

[@keithdunwoody1302]

This was very helpful, thank you. However, I would really like to see you display some various spec sheets from different amps and headphones and stare and compare the voltages and wattage and sensitivity specs so we can take this theory and apply it to a real world shopping situations.

[@1337sim1]

Great video ! 👏This is what everybody should watch before buying an headphone amp!

[@barashkaz]

Wonderful video, thank you.

[@o0Dan0o]

I agree with your comment on the volume knob, except that if an amp is set to be much higher gain at a lower potentiometer setting, then you're going to either get clipping or distortion, or likely both, at higher potentiometer settings. Or the potentiometer is non-linear, and you just get a significantly reduced increase in gain as you turn the knob. Either way, these goes to 11!

[@BunnyslippersEUC]

My Rupert Neve RNHP, fed a 5V signal from from dac, can power most headphones. It's a very small amplifier. The noise floor (hiss) is high, so it is not suited for sensitive IEM. It sounds very detailed. It is still my benchmark. The JDS el amp ii has more gain, but less current. It also sounds very dry and sterile, compared to the Rupert Neve. I mainly use it for games and it looks awesome. I bought a secondhand amplifier from Musical Fidelity. And it sounds a bit less detailed, slightly warm but more open (also bigger soundstage), compared to the Rupert Neve. It takes away the edge in the highs in songs. It sounds wonderful. It is class A, but turning the nob past 50%, the amp does introduce noise. It is a big unit. I also got a tube amplifier. The Cayin (14 kg) with Russian tubes can power anything Dynamic. But you need at least 40 Ohm headphones to eliminate the tube his. The Beyerdynamic dt 990 pro 600 is notorious for sounding sharp, but is great on a tube. The Koss KSC75 also sounds great on the Cayin. The most inefficient and affordable headphones are the Fostex T rp series. Because of the small planar magnetic drivers, these headphones are very inefficient.

[@mrykhoek]

The thumbnail for this video made me chuckle. I mean this in no disrespect, but the picture reminded me of Elmo St. Peters from The Brave Little Toaster lol. Love your videos!!

[@michaeljohansson3882]

It's like wine. You enjoy to explore different grapes, taste, and their texture. My reference i HD-600 (open) and DT-150 (DT-100 pads, closed) and Etymotic ER2XR (IEM)

[@danielhipwell3607]

great video, thank you.

[@HiFiInsider]

A good amp with output transformer will have no problems with any impedance load. IMHO, the sensitivity rating is a more important factor to look at when researching headphones.

[@GadZookz]

Very enlightening video. Thanks! If you were a headphone amplifier, which one would you be?

[@teqai]

Would be cool if in the calculator you could select the most common headphones, s.t. their values would be filled in automatically.

[@jianhuang0124]

Great content. If there are more visual demo or flow chart showing, that'd even be better.

[@Vamon_Kinctuarinwhe]

I'm still completely confused.

[@fabimesizae]

Would it be possible to have a review of the Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier?

[@onepieceatatime]

What's the tube in that little Schiit amp?

[@asan1050]

Thank you

[@feralshad0w]

I have sony mdr 7506... and they hugely benefit from an amp... now this could be a shortcoming of my motherboard audio. so that is something important to note. I got the Schiit magni unity with the dac option I gained better lows and highs and general clarity across the board over my motherboard soundcard... that said, things were still pretty good before... I wouldn't get the dac/amp for these headphones, I am waiting for my hifiman edition XS.

[@1as130]

would love specific review of the confusing aeon noire power requirements! also recommendations for desktop or mobile amps!

[@EricRosenfield]

This is really useful

[@TimpBizkit]

High impedance means it doesn't draw enough power (but theoretically you could run lots of them in parallel on one amp so it's not the same as low sensitivity or efficiency). Low sensitivity means it needs lots (comparatively) of power to get loud, although sometimes sensitivity is measured in terms of voltage needed to get loud - which can also mean high impedance cans simply receiving less actual power, not just inefficiency.

[@mrfarax4944]

Lovely video great info, could you maybe explain things like ratio and gain the compressors of amps like power amp in mobile devices

[@zemessargs]

Fantastic and informative, Goldensound. Despite being in the hobby for a bit now, and having nice gear, I learned quite a bit from this video. Thank you!

[@chrislj2890]

Excellent video, but I kept waiting for that vacuum tube to get whacked, lol.

[@wonjoomin]

Watt’s a Watt, no matter what! Nicely stated 👏

[@petercraig389]

Class A sounds better though.....more often then not... Good video !!

[@megametallifan]

This was great

[@renflex_themullet]

One thing I dont quite understand is how to know from specs, how much power can put a certain amp in to a 300ohm headphone if the specs are given in mW for an headphone of 32ohm of impedance. Ca someone explain it 🙏 ? (the video is quite useful tho)

[@n0xt]

You can't really. At most you can assume that the amplifier outputs the same amount of voltage at these two impedances and work out the amount from P=U^2/R equation.

[@zacharystokes]

You are defacto teaching people physics. This makes me happy.

[@VaporEG]

Joshua Valour needs to watch this...and someone teach him how to pronounce HIFIMAN

[@lol-vq8dh]

Why? 🤔

[@CaveyMoth]

How does he pronounce it? Hiffyman?

[@oioionionone]

@@CaveyMoth “Hifeeman”

[@CaveyMoth]

@@oioionionone Oh, wow. What's next? Pronouncing Focal like focal?

[@oioionionone]

@@CaveyMoth maybe pronouncing it “Fokle” who fucking knows, you asked how he pronounced it so I told you, he pronounces it oddly for sure, if you like you can pronounce it “I wank dogs off” I dgaf what you do on your day off

[@springersound1844]

Unmatched for my HD58X is my Pioneer sa8800 - haven't found better for black background and simple WEIGHT of sound. I play at very low volumes.

[@tincedeng]

the position you put the tube amp and the way you waving you hands when talking really made me anxious.

[@tylerstravis]

What tube do you have in your Vali? I was hoping for a review of that thing :)

[@thewrongwoozy]

Hey, did you end up finding out what tube that is ?

[@martinfox2244]

Please explain OTL/non OTL tube amps vs hi/low headphone impedance.

[@westernartifact580]

High impedance headphones often sound divine on an OTL tube headphone amp: Dark Voice, LTA MZ, et. al.

[@astifcaulkinyeras]

Voltage is voltage and current is current but impedence is not resistance. Ohm's Law in an AC circuit is V=IZ. Impedence also varies depending on frequency. How this factors into a headphone circuit I have no clue.

[@d0nj03]

It affects dynamic drivers to some extent (but not as much as people assume - see Solderdude's article "Resistance, Impedance and Other Issues"), and shouldn't affect planar drivers pretty much at all. For planars you can just calculate like it's pure resistance.

[@davide_notaro]

i didnt really get the part about planar (9:27) so let me recap if i've understood correctly: so if i listen at 85db the bass region in most song could be at 20db higher due to human hear stuff, so i plug 110 db in the calculator to see if i can drive it in the full range so in planar the bass is particulary hard to drive so the amp will output even more power towards those frequency and therefore i need an amp that drives cleanly even at higher power? so in practice what happens and how i check this? i have a fosi audio q5 that is rated for 400mW @32ohm and i'm intrested in a

[@MrTimmyGT]

I still don't know if I need an amp for my headphones

[@ninja_rabbit_8684]

Just find this video,omg best explanation ever pal.I just start my hifi journey,hifiman sundara and I’m testing it with FiiO 7 and if zen dac,everyone say fiio is better cuz is more powerful but I also like zen dac and don’t feel Like is not loud enough or lack of power.Did you maybe review zen dac?

[@beatprocess]

I’m new to this. Just bought planar that are 32ohm 250w. What a amp specs ineed

[@wardaug_]

would love some explanation for the formula/equation used in your Headphones Power Calculator. I've just found the equation to convert the sensitivity from dB/mW to dB/V: SV = SP + 20•Log(sqrt(1000/Z)), where Z is the headphones impedance. just wondering about the formula for required Voltage and Current. while Power I believe is the result of V*A Thanks in advance for the explanation!

[@matusjurcik6974]

I wouldnt say that higher impedance headphones draw less current. Transducers are moved by current and they need enough of it so higher impedance headphones need more voltage to flow enough current. In other words yes they can draw less current at given voltage, but they can be underpowered when the voltage is too low. I =V/R, where R means load impedance (headphone). The higher the R is the lower the value of the current flow (as u said), so u need higher value of voltage to achieve good amount of current flow to the transducers.

[@SlashThePriest]

So the max voltage of the amp is constant as you change the load (headphones)?

[@matusjurcik6974]

​@@SlashThePriestnot sure if I understood your question correctly, but voltage will be attenuated by the volume knob (so it depends on the loudness you are listening on, using given headphones). I hope I dont say bullshit, though 😅

[@SlashThePriest]

@@matusjurcik6974 Yes exactly, that was what I was trying to say with max voltage. As long as you don't change anything but the headphones the voltage should be the same. The output of the amp is limited by the voltage, so if I wanted to calculate the power of an amp with different impedance (headphones) than the spec sheet of the amp I would be able to do so with Ohm's Law by assuming that the voltage is constant.

[@matusjurcik6974]

@@SlashThePriest ok :) my OG comment was purely, about ohm law though (without consideration of volume adjustability ,,feature,, of an amp). Its alright to send control questions, though. I do it all the time 😁

[@Decenium]

excellent

[@lukedudgeon8699]

New to the hobby, stiill so much to learn......

[@thekaying]

5:30 If anyone's got this down, care to explain? How does higher gain not equal higher output voltage in this description? And how does it not alter power as consequence?

[@Fuchs-AA3963AA]

3:21 - MacMiller! Mac 4ever.❤️

[@michaelshaffer4005]

In the context of headphones and IEMs, what does “scales with power” mean?

[@VJA74]

Though I respect you for being a great bridge between objective and subjective world, this video, though being quite informative, went zipped past. Would have been lot informative with bit lesser speed and with examples! 👍

[@thewebart]

I can listen you day and night.

[@markos.5539]

Can we have a database for THD vs Voltage?

[@oliverrevilo7654]

A question for the experts: Is the Ifi Zen Dac V2 powerful enough to power a Hifiman Edition XS? And does it absolutely need an external power pack, or is the power from the USB port sufficient? Thanks :-)

[@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah]

Yes the Zen DAC is more than enough... The Edition XS requires 63.1mW of power to get to the standard 110dB SPL as listed by Golden Sound. The Zen DAC can do roughly 350mW into 32 Ohm so yes it should be able to run the Edition XS no problem

[@OmmerSyssel]

You don't necessarily use a dac to power your Headphones. Upgrading the quality of sound from your streaming device is the core issue ... Often rather simple equipment like Røde AI-1 is sufficient.

[@AtamanTube]

It is incorrect that the volume knob adjusts gain. As you said later in the video, for most amps it adjusts attenuation of the input signal. Also, putting your amp in high gain will not change the specs of the amp, but it will allow you achieve higher wattage. So if your cans are not getting loud enough, changing the gain setting to high might help. Nice video otherwise. Love the Audio Precision graphs.

[@GoldenSound]

To clarify, whilst the fixed-gain stage is not having its gain altered, the gain of the product as a whole is. Attenuation of a signal is negative gain. This was said in reference to the product as a whole

[@blainelacross5311]

In a "typical" amplifier, higher gain settings mean lower feedback, so you do actually have some theoretical change in specifications even aside the gain. Now, will you see this? In most amps, the dominant factors limiting performance aren't inside the feedback loop anyway, so typically not - but it's in about the same technicality space as looking at the circuit gain rather than the "black box" gain of an input to the amp vs. its output 😁

[@Hialeah59]

Golden Sound - great video. I have Audeze LCD-5 headphones. My DAC is the Gustard X26Pro. I'm currently using an iFi iCan Pro Signature amp. Any suggestions on a new amp and or DAC to drive these cans? Thanks in advance.

[@mikehughescq]

An excellent video in terms of coherent explanation of key concepts but he doesn’t actually answer the question he poses in the title of the video. Do I need an amp?

[@sameh9310]

came for the reviews, stayed for the hi-fi science, left with no money

[@ivan213]

wow buddy your camera is NICE

[@MikeHunt90731]

I purchased a pair of Beyerdynamic 250 ohms, I'll be fine listening straight into my Denon 90watt per channel receiver right?

[@martinfox2244]

Another suggestion, I have an original version Grado 225. I am considering a 325x but...what about a diy upgrade? Specifically how do diy drivers compare to factory Grados?

[@SimplicityForGood]

how to choose one for your phone where it is a normal small headphone jack and how to know it will work'? I got the Light Phone 2 and got all my Apple Music and podcasts on it as well some recordings from Logic Pro... Now I use the beyerdynamic DT 1770 PRO and want to use them as well as with my phone to listen to music...

[@8upwithit]

How can I connect headphones to my amp without the speakers muting? I have a Yamaha A S301. I just need the speakers to play at the same time as the speakers.