Do I Need To Buy $20 Outlet Receptacles For My Kitchen?!

[@aaron74]

It's very true, I had a "Smart Electrician" GFCI from Menards go open on me after about 2 years. Learned my lesson. I didn't replace it with Hubbell, I went with Legrand. Time will tell if it holds up!

[@robertfrate9738]

Hi, excellent demonstration ty, your absolutely right about customer satisfaction and complaints, always use a drop cloth, regardless of the condition of the counter top, no drop cloth and the customer will suddenly find a scratch that’s been there forever and now it’s new damage! Drop cloth is an absolute must!

[@shubinternet]

Thank you for talking about your mistakes and letting us see you fix them!

[@Embers7]

Since there are two kitchen circuits, you can usually get by with two GFCIs at the homerun / first outlet of each, placing the rest of the circuit downstream as a load.

[@ghammer9773]

I know this solution tends to be more expensive, but if the cost differential was not a factor, I would just put the gfci at the breaker. I recommend this for outdoor receptacles as well, so that a damaged outdoor box is still fully gfci protected.

[@JasperJanssen]

@@ghammer9773 I truly don’t understand why breaker boxes without GFCI on the whole house is still valid code in your country. Doesn’t even have to be an rcd per circuit, it can just be a couple of RCDs each doing multiple breakers.

[@jovetj]

@@JasperJanssen Some appliances are known or expected to leak a tiny amount of current to ground. A GFCI/RCD on those circuits quickly become a nuisance. I have not studied what the Code says about the design and construction of panel boxes, but their current design (no pun intended) does not allow for groupings of circuit breakers. I suppose, if you got ahold of an old 6-handle-main panel, you could put GFCIs as main disconnects for some of the lower circuit busses in the panel, but that's a very antiquated mentality of doing things here today. In the United States (and Canada), circuit breakers are widely considered as more convenient and cost effective. A UK ring circuit with individual fuses on each plug is fine, but a blown fuse takes more time and expense to remedy. Essentially, US circuit breakers centralize all that in a single location, and last for many decades.

[@dannooo548]

I'm pretty sure the European central RCDs trip at ~30mA but the US ones trip at ~5mA. I've heard the higher current ones called "equipment protection" devices. So you could still be killed before the RCD trips, but it would trip if you had a short to ground. If you put a US GFCI over multiple circuits, you would probably have nuisance trip issues but maximum human safety. So you could argue the US way has benefits. Maybe both and only have the 5mA GFCIs in wet areas (as was originally the case in the US)?

[@Tibbon]

The real cost kicking me is using the combined GFCI/ACFI's in my panel for all my new breakers. $50 a pop, and many of my circuits have just one or two items on them for separation and future expansion.

[@thisgame1499]

so double them up with wirenuts in the panel, and as you expand you can install more breakers.

[@jovetj]

When GFCIs came about and came to be required by Code, there were many whispers about conspiracies involving money-making schemes. I find that hard to go along with, because GFCIs are literally life-saving. They can even save your life every day the rest of your life. But, the AFCI trend has me suspicious. I know house fires are bad, but I am extremely skeptical of the cost-effectiveness of mandating this technology. The vast majority of homes do not burn down. Electrical fires certainly happen, but they are not the every day thing that water and electricity are. I have struggled and failed to locate any data or studies of the 20-year effectiveness of ACFIs. A common trope in favor of them goes "well, we will never know how may fires they prevented." Well, we can, because they trip. We could also easily see large, long-term trends of reduced numbers of dwelling fires. However, I am unable to locate any such studies or data. So, the smell test is still pretty rank with me.

[@outlet6989]

The rear of your multimeter doesn't have a feature that mine has. On the back of mine is an attached elastic band. I put the meter over my lower arm. I adjust it to have a good view of the meter's front side. We DIYers only sometimes have a counter to rest the meter on, and you still have to look down to read it. When I use a battery-powered device, I permanently remove the battery(s) when I'm finished. I use rubber bands to hold them onto the device. It may be months or even years before I use the device again. I have one foot, 1/8-inch diameter, wooded dowel with notches on the ends. This comes in handy when I push the wires inside the workbox.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

3 great recommendations on one comment! Thanks @Outlet

[@mathman0101]

I rate Leviton smartrip pro better than Hubbell more consistency of tripping under time and current leakage tests across a wider range of ac /dc and higher frequency tripping currents.

[@FHES2005]

Funny story I had prove an electrical inspector wrong a couple months ago cuz I ran a 20 amp circuit for a GFCI plug outlet and I put normal 15 amp GFCI outlet in and he dinged me for it but then I pulled out the code book and proved him wrong that I could use a 15 amp outlet you don't need to use a 20 I had to prove him wrong

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Way to know the code!

[@FHES2005]

@@ElectricProAcademy was I right

[@danlux4954]

@@FHES2005 depends on what area.

[@UnifiedInfo]

oversizing wire should never be a inspectors issue as long as it fits manufacturer lugs. this inspector sounds like a clueless handbook hero

[@UnifiedInfo]

@@user-tt2iu2db7d ya not sure why you would do that if you need 120 volt appliances to function. I imagine this is just a bad dad joke

[@RPHPros]

I guess depending on locality but you could also just use GFCI/Arc Fault dual function fuses and skip the GFCI outlets all together. I did this in my kitchen build to help lower the cost since I had so many outlets (sure I could have just used 1 GFCI on each of the two counter top circuits) and since I had to use the dual function breakers it was a no brainer for me.

[@ptso7580]

It's all up to the client's pocket book and their preference really. Also those combo breakers are pricey. Starting from fresh is best for afci/GFCI breakers, but for reno old work, can't trust how the house is wired.

[@2JDAILY]

@@ptso7580 lately NY city inspectors don't care if it's new construction or renovation they wanna see AFCI breakers for all living spaces and that's also for A/C receptacles, last apartment I had inspected only 3 of the 15 breakers ($50 each) were not AFCI those were the 2 countertop GFCI and one bathroom GFCI even the fridge receptacle had to have an AFCI breaker to pass inspection on a renovation. I heard the inspectors outside the city are less stringent though.

[@jovetj]

Fancy breakers are also less convenient than localized GFCIs.

[@jovetj]

@@2JDAILY Makes me wonder what their cut is.

[@ptso7580]

@@2JDAILY Is that NY entire or just the Big Apple? I can see why for the strict code enforcement for NYC area. Lot of mice in those stacked boxes. I've worked in NJ, PA and CT and lot of the houses I worked on has multi branch circuits. Combo AFCI GFCI 2 pole breakers are crazy $$$$ and hard to find for some manufacturers. Inspectors in my area knows this and are willing to work with you and the client. Will the good ones do.

[@vince6829]

Nice multimeter. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@jovetj]

I'm surprised how inexpensive it is.

[@jovetj]

15:40. Got this house earlier this year. Recently had the dishwasher replaced. After it was installed, I was horrified to see that the duplex receptacle beneath the sink (where both the dishwasher and garbage disposal plug in, with separate circuits) was just hanging out of the wall. It did already have a box extender on it and the terminals were wrapped with tape, but, how embarrassing. I got some 2-inch long screws and a wallplate, and discovered it was like that because the lower box hole was completely blocked by the cabinetry. A quick hole drill later and it was easy to finish up. P.S. I hate backstabbing.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

@Jovet, thanks for all the quality commenting recently! We would not consider this backstabbing because the wires are secured with a plate and terminal screw inside the device. This keeps all the components out of the reach of each other for proper GFCI performance. Love to hear that you're up to the task of cleaning up your home's electrical work!

[@jovetj]

@@ElectricProAcademy Sorry, didn't mean to imply there was backstabbing in the video. The house I live in, though, it's all over. Ugh.

[@MrKen59]

When you use a gfci receptacle to cover downstream outlets, do you have to label them as gfci protected? The Eaton gfci devices comes with small labels for this purpose, but curios if it’s required. Thanks Joel.

[@jovetj]

Even if it's not required, it's still a good courtesy.

[@MrKen59]

@@jovetj thanks Jovet

[@AmauryJacquot]

in the EU, we have all circuits protected by GFCI at the panel.

[@okaro6595]

You should see what sockets cost in Finland. A normal one could cost that much. An RCD protected is well over 50 € - though they are rare here as it is put on the panel. It is also strange how you can just buy a plate separately. Here every outlet is different. Well DIY is banned here so small differences in sockets prices do not matter that much.

[@mathman0101]

You should also tell people to buy commercial spec outlets far better and robust than residential version sold in big box stores.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

That sounds like the Math Man we've all grown to know and love.

[@mathman0101]

@@ElectricProAcademy no your the real pro and providing for so many families in the company. My friend also at sparky channel made this point several years ago as well on his channel and when I first used them the difference in feel touch, robustness of the pins and compression of inserted plug was so much more evident.

[@jovetj]

@@mathman0101 Tougher outlets are always better, especially in rough enviorns (e.g. outdoors, garages, kitchens). Having rear screw-clamp connections is icing on the cake.

[@mathman0101]

@@jovetj not a great fan of the screw clamp connections although better than stab-in for sure. Funnily enough the hook wrapped under the screw has been found in laboratories and testing to be the most secure mechanical and electrical connection as long as it is done correctly. That is why the NFPA70 Handbook has a nice graphic showing that type of connection. And how to do it correctly. Torque the screw connections down and that really also helps - again recommended by NFPA70 Handbook version.

[@jovetj]

@@mathman0101 I just can't understand how backstabbing ever became legal. The last place you want a questionable connection is in your home wiring. I really like the screw clamps because it's faster and simpler to prepare the conductor and the screw and clamp are still very secure. I don't think there's any question that the contact surface area of a screw-wrapped-conductor is greater, but the clamp is a healthy compromise. I have never bothered to look if it's listed for such but you could still always wrap the screw of a clamp, too.

[@DavidBerquist334]

Is passing Seymour and levington and Eaton good quality GFI receptacles

[@jovetj]

Overall, they're all about the same. Designs are tweaked over time so there can be little variations. As long as they're listed with a quality/testing company, with an actual stamp on the device [e.g. (UL)], it should be fine. Another comment here mentions that Eaton has had quality control issues since moving some production to Korea. Most Leviton stuff is made in Mexico if I remember correctly. I used to like Cooper stuff too, but Eaton bought them out. Anyone that remembers the junk "Eagle" wiring devices should know that Eaton is "them" today.

[@cengeb]

Get a WHIA Torgue screw driver kit $200 amazon, insulated 1000V DIN VDE etc etc

[@JohnThomas-lq5qp]

No you might not need a $20 GFCI receptacle but a $65 AFCI circuit breaker if in 2020 NEC.

[@Embers7]

If you're less than 70 feet from the panel, you can use an AF/GF receptacle at the homerun of each kitchen circuit for about $35 (slightly cheaper on ebay) as an alternative to the breaker

[@ericfraser7543]

12:45 LOL who cut out that box... gonna need a wide plate cover or hope the tile guy makes it right...

[@RPHPros]

Yeah I caught this too but he goes on to state a back splash is running up to the box, and tile will cover the poor cut and no one will ever know.

[@heavy1metal]

I've always hated seeing standard commercial outlets when there's a GFCI vs a Decora style outlet that would better match the style. Imagine $200/sqft counters and saving 0.10-0.20 cents per outlet lol.

[@jovetj]

You need to get over it. It's not a big deal. I'm glad someone has not tried to invent the GFCI "two hole duplex receptacle" (I forget the standard trade designation) receptacle. Because that would look silly.

[@Youcanthandleme319]

Like the adjustable box. They should be code lol. And I often use crimp sleeve vs green wire but sometimes there is just not enough room with GFCI. Love the channel & content.

[@texasproud3332]

I found it a bit puzzling you would refer to GFCI as a nuisance device when in reality it’s a safety device when wired properly and the appliance or item operating properly

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Nuisance BUT hugely important! We actually mostly said this because of our work with EVs and the issues arising around AFCIs & GFCIs tripping overnight and people's cars being undercharged in the morning 😕

[@raygunsforronnie847]

@@ElectricProAcademy Nuisance tripping from EV chargers? Did you track this down to harmonic content on the neutral from the charger?

[@appleimacdude]

I have an old GE Potscrubber 940 dishwasher - I was told I should have this put on a dedicated circuit by itself, but NOT to put it on a GFI? Is this correct?

[@AidanSkoyles]

only if your electrician is trying to make some $$$

[@ElectricProAcademy]

dishwashers can experience nuisance tripping issues on GFCI's. I haven't seen one universal recommendation in this regard. Go with your manufacturer's instructions.

[@wizard3z868]

I wld say if you have to use a gfci make sure it's an accesable location either a breaker or the line side outlet is an a readily area 😉

[@ChickenPermissionOG]

gfci at the breaker?

[@edmastin74]

Daughter has a GFCI reading "no ground", thought I'd plug something in and turn off the breaker to find what else might be feeding it. I have tone generator, but ..... suggestions? It is at the end of the circuit

[@jovetj]

Is it an older home? Was perhaps an older un-grounded receptacle replaced with the GFCI? Such installations are supposed to be marked with supplied stickers, but remember a GFCI does not rely on its ground connection to work.

[@edmastin74]

@@jovetj yes-but not as old as I am. Cable came from the refrigerator box, removed and replaced the wire nut on the grounds and presto it tested correctly. My OCD really wanted to determine the issue, but also knew it was a functioning receptacle. Thanks for your input.

[@jovetj]

@@edmastin74 I'm glad it's working correctly now!

[@cengeb]

What Cat rating and stuff is that off brand meter?

[@AUTISTICLYCAN]

Is it wrong to have GCFI's in every kitchen outlet. Yes it was crazy expensive but I make 6 figures so I could afford it. I had my electricians install lighted GCFI outlets in every kitchen outlet even the dishwasher, refrigerator and microwave. Of course in both bathrooms there are GCFI's at the sink walls. I installed the GCFI's in both bathrooms and in the laundry room.

[@progression_decibel]

I believe one of the NEC clauses is within 6ft of water/sink (I forget the exact wording) you need GFCI protection so you did right there. Anyway I do the same thing with GFCI receptacles everywhere; it is technically overkill and you only need to wire 1 GFCI receptacle upstream of the others on the same branch circuit to protect them but I like the uniformity in look of all-GFCI in the same room. I agree, to each their own with $$ spend and it's not like we're replacing receptacles every week lol. They will last for decades - just cry once, buy once.

[@AUTISTICLYCAN]

@@progression_decibel Oh I know I did not NEED to put GCFI's everywhere. I just installed the GCFI's in my kitchen everywhere because they light up very very bright when the lights are turned off. I like the light they give off at night. My kitchen has no windows at all so the kitchen is pitch black at night. My army of kitchen GCFI's bring much needed light to my dismal dark kitchen at night. It's fine because the light from the GCFI's is far dimmer than turning on my much brighter overhead and under counter lights. Heck sometimes I love wasting money because I can afford it.

[@boeing757pilot]

That is how my house is configured. Each kitchen receptacle is a GFCI receptacle. Not one GFCI feeding downstream.

[@JohnThomas-lq5qp]

Like the idea of no visible screws on wall plate but looks clunky with rectangular shape. Would look a hell of a lot better if four edges were tapered. Would not use them in my house even if free.

[@jovetj]

Thinner, screwed down wallplates look nicer to me.

[@luislazogue8089]

I have really bad experience with Hubble WR gfci’s, I replaced about 20 installed by me within 1 year of the original installation.

[@JohnThomas-lq5qp]

We had a ton of trouble when scum bags Hubbell moved expensive hospital grade TR receptacles factory from USA to Korea. You would get the stainless steel 6/32 oval head screw almost tight and screw would break off flush with device. Could not drill a hole dead center to try to use a broken bolt tool to remove broken piece. Pisses you off when you purchase the best device and it's a POS lemon.

[@jovetj]

@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Buy Leviton. ;-)

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Thanks for this feedback, y'all. We may need to do some inventory reevaluating!

[@mathman0101]

@@ElectricProAcademy yes really disappointed with Hubbell. My go to is Leviton they bought JCC LEDs also in UK and the design of their light s and GFCIs/AFCIs were so much better with little flourishes that you notice signaling that they were designed with the electrician in mind to make installation easier. Plus testing them I found them so much more consistent better able to pick up on fault leakages even though they were just a type A GFCI

[@russrockino-rr0864]

The box extenders and receptacles should be installed after the tile is installed, Joel!

[@nathanmelanson]

did I see a WR on that outlet? Why would you use a weather resistant outlet indoors?

[@WW-hr1hd]

Because GFCI receptacles are suitable for both exterior and interior locations. And since the interior locations they are most often used are in kitchens and bathrooms, the weather resistant rating makes sense where water is present. When you buy GFCIs by the case (like electricians do) it makes a lot more sense to buy GFCIs that do double duty.

[@larrypettyjohnii9064]

I'm trying to figure out why you used more than one in the kitchen. One GFCI can protect all of the outlets on that circuit.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

The receptacles are on several circuits. Check this video out for the circuit planning: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2nXm4CJjLqKgdU

[@jovetj]

You should never have just one receptacle circuit in a kitchen. A lot of power hungry devices can be used in a kitchen, now more than ever.

[@KameraShy]

Hopefully the downstream receptacles were commercial grade.

[@NAVYSEABEE]

I notice in this video, the clear plastic coating coming off the wires, is that bad?

[@jovetj]

Not really.

[@jovetj]

To add to my response... from what I can tell, that clear layer is a nylon outer jacket that helps protect the conductor's PVC insulation. It also provides some extra resistance to water and oils. The nylon is not needed to be fully electrically resistant to its rated voltage (usually 600V).

[@davidkiser4758]

Instead of the Robertson (square) I prefer to use and ECX from Milwaukee or Klein. It gives the advantage of the square and flat blade which gives a better contact with the screw head.

[@asamitchell7948]

We gfci every circuit in our homes in the uk because we use mighty 230v single phase supplies, not puney 110v

[@JohnThomas-lq5qp]

Don't forget 230 volts a lot more dangerous if you get shocked. Nobody makes a GFCI that will trip if you were to get hit with both hot 230 volt wires at same time. Have been shocked with 120, 208, 240 & 277 volts and 5,000 volts from oil burner ignitor transformers. 120 volts usually only gave my fat ass a slight tingle but when you double the voltage the shock hit appears at least 4 times as much tingle.

[@jovetj]

It's 120 volts, not 110. We "brave souls" have receptacles in bathrooms and we don't have electric showers. Go figure.

[@raygunsforronnie847]

@@jovetj Ash, but we need to power the chargers for the electric tooth brush, shaver, and have power for hair care appliances and other 'stuff' folks think they need in the loo.

[@jovetj]

@@raygunsforronnie847 Extension cords to the rescue!

[@okaro6595]

In Europe often the whole apartment or even hose was protected by just one RCD. In the US one would not want that as nuisance tripping is more common with 5 mA than 30 mA. Now one at least separates lights and sockets on every room on different RCDs so one does not lose lights when one trips. There are, howeverm RCD sockets available in the UK. Also the mechanism how they work is different. In the US they are electronic. In Europe typically electro-mechanical.

[@Kevin-ip8uf]

at 11:15 you talk about using dropclothes on counters. I like using work mats. rubber backed so if you're on hardwood at a receptacle and step on it you don't slip. but they're great when you get them printed with your company logo and information on it - the customer appreciates the care given, and it's got built in advertising. shameless promotion of yourself and company, there's no downside to it.

[@IamMugs]

That looks like doodoo. All of my outlets and switches are flush with the "screwless" plates

[@rb8049]

Can’t believe you mixed outlet formats. Round vs rectangular??? I would throw a fit as a customer. Also the color difference… I would find a better color patch of plates and outlets. 😮

[@jovetj]

"Round versus rectangular" is a made-up problem. Stop stressing yourself. The color difference is a bit concerning to me, but it really just comes down to the plastics that are in use.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

We're always open to customer feedback on both of these issues but in this case (and most cases) folks prefer saving a little more money. As mentioned in the vid, the cover plates were provided by the homeowner so we actually pointed it out to them after the fact

[@reesemartin3285]

No you gotta put 50 dollar outlets. The ones with the 5 volt USB ports

[@mos8541]

you dont think $20 is some super outrageous price.. .really do you?... how much $$$ would it cost NOT having them.... how about telling all the peeps out here who arent in the know about electrical contracting how much you/i/we charge to put in a gfci or recip per recip... that $20 seems awfully small now...

[@edwardhoward4542]

First of all, you need yo stop buying Home Depot devices. Real professionals buy Legrand devices from electrical supply stores. They last longer and look much better.

[@michaeljavert4635]

Lots of drop cloths and wet dry vacuums with high suction, a must that's almost always overlooked. Not to point any fingers but it rhymes with A B eccentric. No offense but plastic and nylon boxes aren't giving that professional look. It makes it look cheap and lazy. But I am not knocking you so please don't take it that way. Also I don't like those plastic inserts. In that case I use electrical tape around the terminals and GFCI terminals with metal boxes and just use spacers if needed. When I rise to "power" (see what I did there) I will ban plastic so they will need to come up with brass, or other non-conductive material but the screw is conductive anyway, so it wouldn't really matter. Washers metal or rubber would be used if nothing else. Again metal would last longer, rubber will dry out and degrade over time, making the receptacle wiggle loose again.

[@jovetj]

Professional look? Who the hell cares?? If your boxes are not covered up, you're doing "electrical" wrong.

[@cengeb]

Get some KNIPEX wire strippers, all others are junk

[@AidanSkoyles]

I'll save you 16 minutes. NO, you dont. Buy one, and wire the rest of them up on the load side of the GFCI. done.

[@cengeb]

FLUKE meters or nothing, there is a difference

[@cengeb]

Those plug in testers are no good, they will not show a miswired nuetral

[@christopherperez6126]

I have never so blatantly asked what the heck are you doing man!?! All of your standards I've seen from watching your channel, and this is how you make up a receptacle!!! Backstabbing is so much worse than terminating by wrapping around the side screws, but that's not even bringing up passing though the receptacle. I can't believe I just seen you crimp grounds, and snip one incredibly short, I'm pretty sure that doesn't come out 6in anymore. You should be using a jumper from the receptacle's terminal to it's respective bundle of wires that stick out six inches from the back of the box. You say warranty makes you buy all the best products, why not preform all the best practices?

[@jovetj]

He didn't backstab anything. Using the crimp thing and cutting off one of them short is not what I would have done, but...

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Way to keep us honest, @Christopher Perez! GFCIs have covered terminals for proper function/safety, so this is not actually backstabbing, because we are using the screw terminals in the device. As for the ground, we have never been called back for a grounding problem due to crimping, and find that it gives us a little more room/box fill. Thanks for the input!

[@fiznucka420]

@@ElectricProAcademyif you use crimp sleeves, you have to use a four point crimp tool not crimps in your pliers 👍🏻 Buchanan makes a four point crimp tool

[@lewiskelly14]

Awful thumbnail

[@henryastudillo3711]

Just leave it unscrew the outlet just put some electric tape , make easy for the backsplash,

[@genedussell5528]

the 15% off code doesn't work for the multimeter on amazon. darn