DO NOT Fit a Shower Tray Until You've Watched This

[@aaronmiller3038]

I bumped into a customer the other day who I did a complete bathroom install for , she told me how good it was and how happy they were with it . That was over ten years ago I fitted that one and shockingly I made a profit doing it ..do it once do it right earn the bragging rights

[@vinnysurti]

Many great points here from an experienced bathroom fitter! Over 50% of bathrooms I renovate are riddled with leaks, water damage, flaws and poor preparation and unsuitable materials. Take note people.

[@truthseeker7794]

Yes it's amazing how many builders/plumbers will fit a shower enclosure against two plaster board walls and then tile the walls. They think standard tile grout is water proof but it's not it's only damp proof. As a consequence the board gets wet and the tiles become loose and often fall off leaving big holes in the plasterboard. You have obviously come across this stuff yourself. I'm long retired now but one of my other pet hates was when a plumbers/builders would mount an electric shower unit (especially when it was over a bath) in the dead centre of the wall with the shower head tucked into the corner of the wall. So you had to stand as near to the corner as you could to try and get under the head but the only thing to get a good soaking was the actual shower unit. It's better now with the plastic panels if you like that sort of thing.

[@tubewatcher97]

@@truthseeker7794 So if you used that floor to ceiling plastic laminate stuff you'd be ok to apply to plasterboard?

[@truthseeker7794]

@@tubewatcher97 You could use it on top of plasterboard but personally I would be wary. Make sure you use the larger sized panels so as to minimise on the amount of joints you have. So if you just have two walls to cover then you could do it with just two panels and one joint in the corner. You can actually bend it round corners if you cut the back of the panel. You could always batten the wall if you want to keep it off the plasterboard.

[@danielhart3820]

@@truthseeker7794 What about against a solid wall?

[@truthseeker7794]

@@danielhart3820 Yes great against a solid wall. Just remember that gypsum plaster or plasterboard is water soluble but if the panels are completely sealed it should be fine. Concrete or sand and cement render tend to be more waterproof but I levelled my walls with gypsum plaster (several coats to get it level) and it's been fine for 10 years.

[@acciid]

I've always been put off these shower trays. I'm a DIYer and I've always put in the shower tray forms made from tile backing boards and tiled on top. They look so much better and they're easy to do. If you need to lower the floor, use 22mm ply, cut out the tray area, fix ply between the joists using noggins, leaving just enough space and no more for the drain to go in. I'm also very pleased at your comments regarding backing boards as I've always thought they were a good idea. If there's any chance it getting wet, use a backing board. Seal and then tape the joins and any screws / washers you've used. The images at the 21 min mark are exactly how I've done it, including the HansGrohe ibox which is a great piece of engineering. I wasted my time in the past with cheaper taps and fittings and none have lasted anywhere near as long. So it's good to see a professional of your standing reassuring me that I'm doing it the right way. Will be doing another 3 on my new build house later this year. Looking forward to it.

[@gilbertlufc]

As an enthusiastic DIY'er, I'm so glad I've followed your guidance on my ensuite refit. Several times I've thought "this is overkill". But even though the refit has been very slow, following your belt and braces approach has definitely paid dividends, and as I near completion, I'm confident it's as good an installation as I would have got anywhere. Thanks for all this generous information Roger - much appreciated.

[@heriothandyman3148]

Last tray I fitted, I fretted for a few days on whether to use sand cement or go with “modern way” of tile adhesive or worse, ct1 et al. Stuck with tray recommendations (for guarantee) and went with sand cement and sbr. Not a plumber, so good to hear it’s still best way.

[@PCthesecond]

Renovating my flat i’ve just bought which was only built in 2005 (flats built on the quick and cheap). Plasterboard in both bathrooms, chipboard floors with lino in both, tap outlets and screw holes in tiles for shower screen not sealed. completely rotten under bath, loads of mold under lino which spread beyond the bathroom. had to rip up all the floors in the flat. Thanks to your videos i’ve used proper backing-board, sealed it all up etc, videos have helped me so much thanks.

[@ChrisBarclayInteriors]

Sbr. Mapei Flexible tile adhesive. Mapei tanking kit. Mcalpine waste. Dow 785 silicone. Winning. 👌🏼

[@70scoff]

no nonesense grab adhesive below the tray and no nonesense silicone as your first seal, Dow as your second seal is just as good. It's all about the prep work, cut out all the old shit and replace it properly, the materials are inconsequential except when it comes to silicone and mildew

[@johnf3326]

This guy is spot on. Massive portion of common sense and I have even learned something before I fit my son's 44kg resin flush base as I WAS going to use tile adhesive but not now! You just KNOW when someone really knows what they are talking about, a mix of technical knowledge, experience and common sense.

[@shilks8773]

All very eminently valid points. I had my bathroom floor completely relayed with marine 18mm ply as the base. Backer board is definately the way to go for the area around the shower. As you say - a couple of hundred pounds is not a deal breaker. Rather a longer term solution to the problems of water / damp getting into the substrates.

[@xandercraw]

I wouldn’t really call that a rant, I’d call it passionate instruction😁 as as ever fantastic video!!

[@bburley2115]

Just about to fit shower tray and you’ve answered so many questions. Absolutely brilliant, thanks for great advice!

[@johncarmichael1299]

Brilliant. Not a rant, just a professional, passionate about what he does and wanting to do the very best job for the customer. Some really great tips. Nice one.

[@gc9033]

Need more trades men like you Rodger I appreciate your time and effort you put in these vids. Keep up the good work!

[@johnwardle9667]

Hi Roger, great video as always. I've fitted a good few shower trays. I just followed the instructions they said sand and cement. It's cheap. It works. But there's never any explanation why... Wouldn't the manufacturer be benefiting from informing the installer why to use sand and cement.. to be honest I've primed the floor and the underside of the tray to try and improve the bond.. and I've often wondered if I'd be doing a better job using more expensive tile adhesive. I understand the limitations of sand and cement as well. Laid thin over a suspended floor it probably will dry out and break up eventually. What it sounds like it wants is an isolating membrane. In which case perhaps the flexible, cementitious tile adhesive and (maybe something better than) polythene sheet would be the best way as the tile adhesive should hold up better on the subfloor. I've also used Hardie backer, aqua panel, Wedi boards.. once you've tried the foam sandwich boards, I guarantee you won't want to go back cement or aqua panel. It's lighter, cuts easier, performs better. It's well worth it. That's my view on it anyway..

[@rjamsbury1]

I'm agonising over how to lay one myself for the first time. So many different ideas to absorb! Sounds like a decoupling membrane over the ply, then tile adhesive might be ok? I'll be using that for the floor tiles so could then have a continuous membrane which is an appealing idea.

[@archangel6415]

Thanks Roger, for your great presentation, well done!. I would add a couple of hints that may be of use. Before setting the tray, coat all the bearing timber surfaces (all the edges, top and underside, including any existing floor cuts.) with a coat of thin bitumen or ‘black Jack’ or similar water proofing that won’t affect the tray adhesion, ‘just to prevent safety’! It’s an easy quick thing to do and ensures any potential leak won’t destroy the subfloor. “Silicon” make absolutely sure you use ‘marine’ grade silicon! Agree, the grate rubber seal is best fitted without additional silicon. It can ‘thin and wear, that potentially leaves a slight gap and a pig to remove for any reason. I’d never tile again. Shower panelling with a pvc quarter bead in vertical corner(s). PVC finished sheets can be adhered direct to 11mm Sterling board, if it’s stud wall. But the more expensive sub panels If it’s a brick wall but if your tight for cash, a double coat of quality mixed cement would be as good. Get it flat and true. It Takes a time to dry! If using a timber panel substrate this is protected with my favourite, ‘aqua panel’. Again, paint say 300mm of the base of the timber sub panel with thin bitumen. ‘Black Jack, again to ‘prevent safety’ Capillaration through any weak joint, especial at the base will destroy any wooden backing panel. But if coated with black jack a foot up or so will stop that from happening. I’d caution any enthusiast, this job isn’t for the careless, or the sloppy. Your sins will find you out and may need to be redone, such is the damage water can do.

[@sportscarclinic]

Black Jack will stink the bathroom up for years.

[@simost2566]

After watching this I have no concerns with how I fitted mine; of course I watched loads of skill builder vids and asked for some pointers on a previous post (and got some good advice). Wedi Tile backer, joint seal tape and liquid seal, 10mm ply base on the floor + pro seal to waterproof it, sand and cement with a slug of Mapei included for the tray fit, Wedi sealant between the tray and the wall to hold it and give an extra seal, solvent welded waste run, screw collar trap with a long thread on, plug the end and filled the trap with water to leak test. So far so good... Leak proof membrane to put on the tray edge and I’ll be on with tiling. Cheers Roger Simon

[@bradleythechippychandler9228]

Nicobond rapid flex, mapei tanking kit, Mccalpine shower waste never had any problems great vid Rodger 👍🏻

[@rossmcleod7983]

Thorough analysis much appreciated. However, there is another option and it works in any climate - an outdoor shower. Nothing more glorious than being wrapped in a hot steamy envelope when it’s pissing down rain or snow. No condensation issues, waste goes direct to the garden, you are comfortable in the great outdoors and it costs bugger all.

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

And of course you can invite anyone walking along the street to join you, and the police constables who will soon follow. You've really thought this thru.

[@TheChardygirl007]

My creepy neighbour would be out there with his video camera et the fence in order to show the local Council how illegal I’m being yet again. His last 45 attempts to have me fined for various actions (including court action the last time) have all failed but he’s nothing if not tenacious.

[@glencoe8251]

@@DavidOfWhitehills ​ @Acharacle & Achiltibuie Still think Fergie would stop to blether even if you were in the shower.

[@debsr5853]

We have bought a shower pan with integral upstand and i can't understand why people would go for anything less. Tile backer board and tanking membrane is a must too.

[@DD-xt6vo]

Up stands on the deep tray about to order - too many hours spent scrubbing and replacing sealant!

[@chaymation2]

This is great information. I'm installing a shower myself in an en suite and this has given me the confidence to do it, and to do it right first time.

[@johncrosley1]

As a DIYer I made up my own method which has been fine for 20years. I levelled the tray with four blocks of wood screwed to the floor meaning I had as much time as I needed using trial and error to get it perfectly level. Then I laid many dobs of sand and cement to allow it to squish out until the tray sat on the wood blocks. This may not be the right way but it worked fine for me.

[@martinwinfield2935]

Thanks at last a common sence approach to fitting trays. I'm an electrician but the number of times I've been on jobs and seen the Bodge it and Scarper crew doing things is unbelievable. Most never even pick up instructions let alone read them, they think they know better than the manufactures.

[@grrinc]

We often fit for a local supplier who like to sell a few 'add-ons' - a leg pack kit. We never use them. Five legs supporting a 900 quadrant? It's 99.9% hollow underneath. If we can't secure flat to the floor, we build a timber base for 100% secure contact.

[@adyp81]

I’ve been a Bricky for years and I’ve only noticed this week a plumber with a tub of gobbo to bed the shower tray down with. Once again, your knowledge and how you put it out is proper good.

[@clooperman3745]

Many many years since i've heard gobbo, live down south so is it a northern term?

[@adyp81]

@@clooperman3745 must be northern mate, I’m from the midlands and that’s what we shout at the labourer when the spots are getting low! “Gobbo” 😂

[@davidsharma9170]

Sound advice from an experienced plumber/bathroom fitter. Learnt a few useful thinks from Roger's video. Totally agree with the sand/cement bed for shower tray and the backer boards on the walls. I'm fitting a Crosswater 1200 x 800 stone resin shower tray at the moment and so glad I watched the video before I started working on my long overdue bathroom renovation.

[@nikcrosina]

excellent video! Every British builder, handy man who thinks he can build a bathroom etc needs to watch this. I have had no end off problems with showers that had been build onto wooden floors wrongly. I am very very weary of doing that now. I also think that normal life around a shower tray (ie footsteps etc) causes vibrations on the floorboards, etc that so often are not dampened properly around showertrays and over time affect the seals around the shower tray. Or and even more importantly, people standing in shower trays. have you ever checked how the tray flexes when a heavy person use a shower tray. sigh ..

[@neilsumner1929]

My resin shower tray had massive air bubbles at the mating surface where the trap was supposed to seal against. I used a massive length of plumbers mait to fill the gaps before fitting the trap. Also I fretted over getting the sand and cement base support even across the whole tray. Only to discover later that if you bought the shower tray raiser kit it stood on four feet one in each corner so total even support was not actually necessary just support to each corner!

[@adamhenderson4318]

As a customer its not easy to know if fitter is good and decent. The supposed schemes of trusted traders don't seem to be trustable. If you show any level of interest like asking if elements board will be used they might say yes but come installation its plaster board or marine ply and they will claim its better and been used for years - once the job is started are you going to tell them to down tools and leave it, not likely.

[@vikingofengland]

Amazing when trades say they never have problems with their work. That is because the customer calls someone else in to fix your rubbish work! Anyway, I am going to do my own shower room using Rogers videos as a how to, as it had leaked and rotted out the plasterboard and the MDF box work around the pipes. Previous owner did the cheapest job possible and it shows.

[@sadiqdani9705]

I'm annoyed with tradesmen. One plumber i was asking simple questions as I just was curious what he was doing at my property,his answer was iv been doing this for 25 years. Guess what, same night I had to call the twat for a leak. Unconnected pipe he left.

[@noelburke6224]

No Roger you don't use silicone to seal the edges you use a special water proof shower seal with riser for the tiles to come down over, you can also buy shower trays with up stands for to tile down over

[@clooperman3745]

@@sadiqdani9705 l know what you mean, when a customer asks me a question it might be inconvenient at the time to answer but l always take the time to answer or explain something for them, to me that's good customer relations.

[@clooperman3745]

@@tristancraven3685 A lot of people who should know better! l get builders using plasterboard in shower rooms and l explain the problem, some see the light, others don't.

[@jonboella2966]

fitted a few resin trays in my time over here on reno jobs in france and have often siliconed the trays to well nogged plywood floors - as yet no cracked trays - a thin bed of lean mortar sounds like it may disintegrate over time with movement? - always enjoy your videos

[@andyf673]

Defo over time ,if the tray isn't stuck down you will defo get creaking and the customer will ask why is my shower tray lose ,fix it down ,never had a problem in 21 years

[@dermotkavanagh9260]

Great video, just the way I do it except I put silicone under tray as it's flexible and doesn't affect tray, never had a problem. Also I always use a classy seal around the tray and epoxy swimming pool grout in the shower area.

[@derekkearns4202]

As a Bathroom/Wetroom fitter surprised you even mention Plasterboard of any sorts in a wet area Roger ! Started using Wediboard 20 years ago with all the sundries and never had a problem. The amount of Plasterboard / Plywood failed showers I've removed with a coating of " Waterproofer " is no joke ! Spend the extra money 💰 its more than worth it !

[@SkillBuilder]

Derek I am in complete agreement and I did say that I wouldn't use it but the British Standard does allow it if the walls are tanked. I think I explained that it is quicker and easier to use tile backer board and I tell the customer that if they want plasterboard I am not the man for the job. I have never had a customer argue with me on this.

[@mistervelux]

Top notch advice again mate. Thanks for supporting British suppliers too!

[@vic6820]

I saw one of these resin trays fitted in Italy. Over there it's all concrete floors, even upstairs so it was a dry screed first over the pipework, gone off, then they fixed the tray with a type of heavy duty silicone straight to the screed. It's a major job redoing a bathroom when everything has to be kangoed out.

[@boriss.861]

Here here Roger! TANKING and PLY & NOGGINS... I've done too many bathrooms that I know have the Vertical Lambada going on and never had a problem!

[@TheJuliet67]

Love your vids. I’ve taken up a few shower trays in the past to be replaced with bigger ones. I’ve noticed where they had been bedded on sand and cement it’s crumbled up and all loose. Think this must be partly due to constant movement of using tray. Does sand and cement eventually dry out and shrink. It can be confusing what to use (manufactories recommendation). 30 years ago my old boss used expanding foam on a disabled shower tray for wheel chairs and never weighted it down came back the next day and it was 6 inches above the floor.

[@AJ-ds5gf]

your boss used the wrong foam. You can buy "low expansion" foams that are dense and used as adhesive.

[@Martin-pr6ps]

I use tec 7 under the tray job done. Sand and cement is a disaster on ply wood it just cracks and crumbles.

[@DD-xt6vo]

@@Martin-pr6ps Is it ok on cement subfloor (on ground level) though? This mix is in instructions/guarantee for stone resin tray I'm about to order? Advice appreciated.

[@Martin-pr6ps]

@@DD-xt6vo yes its perfect for cement floor. Just make sure its level.

[@runthomas]

@@Martin-pr6ps are you saying his sand and cement advice is wrong? ...i need to know as i was gonna use it.

[@LE131DJ]

One of the very few long videos I have watched to the end. Informative, fluent and well presented. Well done

[@noelburke6224]

I'm afraid John if you go by these instructions you will have problems down the line.A few detrimental mistakes are made in this tutorial, I'm a plumbing and Heating contractor and a qualified engineer and builder,plus a licensed construction supervisor. I have over 40 years education and experience.This is not the profession way to carry out this installation. I will not comply to building regulations or best practice

[@LE131DJ]

@@noelburke6224 Read me again. I am praising the quality of the presentation, not the nitty gritty of the detail.

[@firstpestcontrol276]

@@noelburke6224 what do you disagree with? I’m very interested and it’s a genuine question.

[@johnetheridge7038]

dot and dab tile adhesive worked for me on 18mm good quality ply, fully screwed down, been in for months and no problems. I followed plumber parts video.

[@mrbhood75]

Agreed with everything you say Roger but where does the water go if it's behind the tiles? This should not happen It'll smell of dampness/stagnant water after a short period of time and will spread elsewhere if there's a hole/gap in the tiles and silicone. It's that which has failed really that's the issue no matter what you stick the tiles too. I always silicone the trap as there's no going back as every time in my experience even on a simple sink waste it leaks without it. Keep up the great video's.

[@SalomonX88]

Great video, very informative! Thanks for the uncoupling tip with the tile adhesive. Looks like it’s better to use sand and cement and it’s cheaper!

[@markwoodcroft7679]

Hi Roger, just about to fit my own Shower and this tutorial has been absolutely first class. Many thanks. Do you have a video on the fitting of Tile backer board?

[@SkillBuilder]

yes we have lots. Go to our Home Page and type in Bathroom or shower and lots of videos will show up

[@danno89]

Thanks so much for this, I'm in the middle of refitting our ensuite and have watched most/all of your stuff on shower trays/enclosures. So much more confident going into the job now and looking forward to getting it done.

[@lesliedickinson198]

Really good solid advice that has been taken on board as I will be refurbishing my bathroom and adding a shower cubicle in the future and when I do a job I want it right. Great video Rodger 👍

[@1Saltyone]

i am a Plumber, Tiler and property maintenance man, at 56 ive been in mechanical engineering and construction in all sorts of ways, levels and positions, multi skilled and experienced to the highest standard, but always looking to learn more skills, ways of doing, new ideas, i am happy to listen to all thought out fully views, regardless of age, experience or skills, ,,,So i just wanted to share with you and your viewers points you have made are true and ways i have came accross them and ways i have done better, SILICONE your right should never be used with rubber or anything that can squash or stretch because as you say it squeezes it out under compression, my days recondtioning verticle glass washers, trying to seal bearing housings with rubber gaskets and silicone, you had to be carefull and check they had not sliped out, later found the bestway was to smear some silicone on both hard faces the day before letting the silicone dry, then when you add the gasket or rubber washer seal, it grips it and makes sure it has ni chance of leaking, plus it can be undone without problems, again your bang-on when it comes to plasterboard in or near a shower, DON`T why would you want to take on a job that could and most likely will ruin your name and reputation when problems show up, your meant to be the expert so tell the customer like i do "your a professional that completes work to the highest standard doing it the correct way, only changing to improve on that, if anyone is cheaper they are not going to do it properly, tell the customer you have worked hard to gain a good name and do not intend loosing it by doing cowboy work" it takes no time to destroy a reputation but years to get a good one, your job is to advise customers, if they just want cheap leave them to it, I have had lots of work from a new 15 to 20 year old new housing estate that have shower and bath tiling straight on to plasterboard stud walls, ok they maybe ageing and the grout and silicone is breaking down, it takes a while to show leaks and people try getting by with towels, ruff reseal etc, normally on solid walls or plywood its not to bad, but plasterboard has been taking all the water like a spong for years until it is water loged, then it shows and crap cures for longer, so by the time i get called its all mush, rotten wood plasterboards, floors and more, also plasterboards move twist and pop tile off, they should not be near shoers or baths and they twist and move that much when doors slam plasterboard walls flex so much tiles shouldn`t fixed to them at all, I am just converting a bedroom into a bathroom with seperate shower the full floor has been removed and marine ply installed, this will be routed with rebates, sealed and tanked, belt and braces always, just wanted to back up what Roger said

[@paulembleton1733]

We had our small bathroom converted into a wet room some years ago. Took them three attempts. They made near every mistake here and some. Water puddled in various areas instead of down the waste pipe (what’s a spirit level?),. Wall tiles were spaced using bits of cardboard (dirt cheap reusable spacers not an option?). The floor tiles around the toilet broke because undersurface wasn’t flat (bare floorboards are perfect for a wet room?). They seem to have done it right in the end and gave a partial refund, but watching this and taking a good look, I see early signs didn’t they tank the shower area properly. Glad I noticed it now, thank you very much.

[@cicerotwo]

Love your vids, Professional at work. Spot on with all your subjects, you explain the pros and cons and with the benefit of years of experience whether or not you consider it a sound proposition or not. Never put me wrong yet! Keep up the really excellent work from a long time DIY enthusiast.

[@offshoretinker]

I never use sand and cement. I cover the ply with foam then sheets of newspaper. The newspaper means you can lift the tray easily if there's a problem. The weakest point is always the tray/tile interface and 99% of leaks occur there. I put in a self adhesive rubber up-stand and butyl rubber seal it as well. Leave a decent gap under the tile so grout can easily be pressed in. No need for silicone as a primary seal or even bother with it anyway.

[@bazzk8752]

I'm a floor and roof designer by trade. All joists coming into party walls will be designed on hangers, this is something the nation builders use as standard practice. Joist spanned their shortest distance is the cheaper option too. This only applies to new builds. Love your videos though.....

[@SkillBuilder]

Yes I was really thinking about older building. Joist hangers have changed the game somewhat. My mistake

[@owenb1t5014]

@@SkillBuilder Your exactly right though Roger - I’ve got a 50 year old townhouse and the joists span party wall to party wall and are built into the bricks.

[@gdfggggg]

@@SkillBuilder I worked in a Victorian property and the joists on the landing went into the party wall. The bloke next door would spark up a fat one and you could smell it on the house.

[@scottsparky1]

@@SkillBuilder my mum's house is a semi and the joist go in to the party wall and you can smell next door neighbor cooking. It's a house built 1960

[@umbertogiannini]

as a keen diyer your videos are always insightful and on this subject it's not just a reflection on the building trade it's reflection on our society in general. We have a skill shortage in absolutely everything we need in this country and it's getting worse. Nobody wants to do a proper job, everyone just wants to get rich quick. We can't seem to build or repair anything to a high standard anymore.

[@ardmayle]

Love this. I'm a pro bathroom fitter and still plenty to learn from Roger.

[@WhippyEU]

what he says about joists and noise transmission is true - mine and my neighbours joists run into each other and we can hear everything. Good thing we like each other!

[@davidcavaliere1525]

I had to used tile adhesive once on this one tray , the trap hole chamfered off right down to nearly a couple of millimetres! And I didn’t think sand and cement would support it . a great video well explained 👍

[@Derek_S]

We moved into our house in 1986 and I installed a high sided resin shower tray soon after. Because the main down waste pipe is on the other side of the room, I had to run the shower waste past several joists, so simply built a timber frame to raise the shower tray, then ran the waste pipe to run around the outside of the bathroom with a gentle slope down. I don't think I bedded the tray on anything but if I did, I would probably have used silicone not something solid. The floor underneath is chipboard, the walls are plasterboard , which I tiled. The gap between the tiles and the shower tray were sealed with tile grout. So theoretically, everything I did was wrong it seems but it's never leaked or cracked in thirty five years !

[@SkillBuilder]

Good to know

[@anthonybrown7959]

Cheers. Opened my eyes to the process of putting in a shower tray. Doing my mother's in the next month or so. Keep the videos coming.

[@psngaming3796]

You are a game changer for my Dutch barge renovation thanks mate I'll get around it watching some more of your videos

[@firstpestcontrol276]

Our house is 18 yrs old and the tiles are now coming loose in the en-suite and water is dripping into the lounge..I’m going to have to rip it all out and follow Rogers advice. Great video.

[@PepsiDotMacOnInsta]

..Not a trady here and looking to pull out a damaged bath and fit a tray/pan, maybe wet room, onto a concrete (bungalow) floor that has brick and tiled walls...Your vids have truly helped....Just can't decide on a mosaic tile wet floor or a concrete resin pan. Steps and edges are not an issue. Just lack of skills 😂😂

[@kw_j]

I have Shower tray on top of tiles glued on silicon only on that bottom border aaaaand like you say you do! on the sides glued to the walls. It does not move and it's in perfect condition since I mounted it 5 years ago! I did it like that because I did not want to dig concrete pavement we dug only a strip to the drain, since it was washing room with only sink there before and we converted it to a bathroom. Came across your video just by case.

[@rjp666]

Very informative and I wholly understand the need to support the entire underneath of the tray incase of the dreaded crack😱, my only query is when using a leg riser kit do I put ply on top of the riser legs then a mortar bed on the ply then the tray on top of the mortar bed ?

[@patriotuk5584]

I’m a self employed plumber and have been pushing customers on the shower board system.quicker for me cheaper for the customer. Great vid

[@markyc6674]

Roger, great video Sir! Recently purchased a shower tray like this at auction. Never realised it was concrete! Good clear instructions that I will follow, thank you for sharing.

[@mattbeddw]

The problem I found with our low profile tray, is it was set perfectly level by the edges, but there is a slight dip in the middle of the tray that doesn't drain

[@kellymichelle1255]

This was unbelievable useful. I've got a few questions to ask my bathroom fitter tomorrow x

[@markrainford1219]

Been laying resin trays for a few years now on low expansion foam with as you say, a de-coupling layer of a thin polythene sheet and 'obviously' weight the tray down with several bags of tile adhesive until cured.

[@oldbutstillcurious3615]

Can't get away from tile adhesive !

[@DD-xt6vo]

Mark Rainford ~ What about the guarantee if from says use sand & cement?

[@markrainford1219]

@@DD-xt6vo Can't really comment except to say never needed to call on the guarantee. In any case the cost of replacing the tray itself becomes a minor expense compared to dismantling and re-installing an entire shower enclosure. Manufacturers will only pay for the new tray. I'd rather reduce the risk of call back in the first place.

[@DD-xt6vo]

@@markrainford1219 Thanks, will pass info back to the fitting crew.

[@Alfapash]

Your so right backer board is the only thing for showers. In fact I used it all round my bathroom. Do it once, do it right. Explain it to the client and give them peace of mind.

[@davidbrewer7937]

Great video. I am a Brit who does this work in Canada & the same applies here, funny that, it seems water is the same everywhere... Don't underestimate the value of the smallest technical details in building a tiled shower or tub back splash. The most destructive thing in a home after fire is water, you must control were it goes & keep it contained where it belongs.DON'T go cheap on the sub surface materials...

[@colinadgie6043]

Brilliantly explained! Don’t be too hard on yourself regarding your art work. It highlighted the pro’s & cons spot on. I am about to fit a new shower tray and tiles. I know which method I will be using thanks to you.

[@DD-xt6vo]

Good drawing I thought, even 3D perspective was good. Interesting even to a newly-interested lay person like myself, researching how to install a stone resin tray in place of the bath. Rather than telling the motley crew how to do it, I plan to ask them to describe their MO. So far neither a consensus or coherent plan like Roger's has been forthcoming. May have to set up a viewing of this video! Guy with the best recall gets the job! If not I might have to tuck in my skirts and take it on myself!

[@dskirkpa55]

Again as always sound advice from a true professional. Thankfully I had watch your shower vids when I, was installing our new bathroom. Followed your hints and tips, and now have a wonderful new walk in shower. Many thanks Roger

[@paullefur6213]

Just one thing, MEGA comment was gonna install resin/concrete shower tray with tile adhesive, not with your advice. will use the tile adhesive for the walls, sand and cement for the tray thank you. 😀

[@elenapirisi6645]

Thanks for a very informative video. We’re renovating a very small bathroom and tiling the floor with rectified porcelain tiles after tanking with ditra uncoupling and kerdi band. We’re over boarding with no more ply, the shower tray is a capped stone resin. Every bit of information I have gotten is to install onto the floor then tile up to the tray, however, my preference is to tile the entire floor, in this scenario would it be ok to 1. put the tray directly onto the tiles using an expanding foam adhesive between the tiles and tray, or 2. install the quadrant shower tray on top of the tiles using the riser kit? If installation over tiles is an absolute no-no can the tray go on top of the ditra uncoupling? Apologies if I seem ignorant but it’s my first project and I want to be sure. Thanks so much .

[@garryhagen7618]

We use aqualine here.. shower tray is recessed into the plasterboard and more often than not we use an acrylic shower liner .. any tiles that is used we apply a waterproof membrane..

[@juleafield8510]

Hello Roger. I have watched this 3 or 4 times now, very helpful and interesting. My plumber, when asked , said he was going to use tile adhesive to install my mira flight tray if the floor isn't very level. I told him I wanted sand and cement to keep the warranty valid. I then found another video of yours where you were actually installing a mira flight, but you put silicone on the bottom, so now I'm confused. I hope I don't have the waste issues you did, 4 or 5 trays later . Thank you for your time

[@SkillBuilder]

Yes sorry Jules If you get the reinforced back tray that is perfectly flat and has leg positions you can use silicone but the sand and cement will compensate for an uneven or out of lever floor. If you have a resin cast tray then you must use the sand and cement base.

[@mariosnicolaou3281]

Loved your openness and honesty plus you are really considering the risk across water damage...can you fit mine.

[@kendodd8734]

It’s right what u said about the tray being very close to flush with the finished floor level makes for a more easily accessible shower cubicle but for fitting and maintenance purposes it’s a problem raising the tray up on 4 *2 s keeping the trap to the front and having an access panel makes it just so much more install and user friendly for future with the bonus of a greater flow fall and not having to worry about the joist direction it ticks a lot of box’s that way but heh I do know that aphetically it not as sleek to look at and a lot of clients do want the tray as close to the floor as possible

[@jmmo20]

very nice description. We live in a new build and the shower tray makes an aweful lot of cracking noise to the joists under. There's also some metal cracking noise which I have no idea where that is coming from. The builders wanted to fill the space under the shower tray with expanding foam. It seems like very poor quality building in my opinion, but I have no experience.

[@paulkramer2599]

Spot on Roger! - Exactly right - The ONLY proper way to fir a stone resin tray 🤜

[@MrAnth58]

Thanks for all your videos mate, much appreciated. One point: would it be wise, when tiling a floor upto the shower tray, to have a silicone joint around the tray perimeter, to allow for flexing, rather than tiling right upto it and grouting. An expansion joint, if you like. Thanks again.

[@SkillBuilder]

Yes, correct

[@MrAnth58]

@@SkillBuilder Cheers mate, once again, thanks for taking the time to do the videos.

[@Wavelover33]

You can use a Ditra membrane on plasterboard. Just make sure it overlaps the tray or use the schluter caulk to create an impervious barrier in that area. They are the top name in waterproofing

[@dan123collins]

100% on the tile backer board ! Thanks to your channel I have a list of materials and components that I want my bathroom renovation to have, the difficult part will be finding someone to do the job right ( I’ve done bits of plumbing and tiling, they have turned out pretty decent but nothing is ever going to be perfect when it’s someone’s first attempt at it )

[@mark-jonathanwilkinson2994]

Sheffield Home Hero. My business could help you out. I'm uploading photos of recent bathroom project tomorrow.

[@dan123collins]

@@mark-jonathanwilkinson2994 Thanks Mark, I’ll check out your Facebook / website.

[@bobrose7900]

The bodges I come across are unreal - " well that's how it's done, and that's how I'm doing it" .....! Like you very clearly said, it is best not to do the job than to do it badly. I tend to avoid tiling and use a shower wall panelling, removing all those porous joints. I've also seen tiles applied so many times without spacers!! And we all know what happens then, they blow or crack. Even professional tilers have done this, they've done it in my house! Wet room floors are preferred, where a screed or former is laid flush with the floor and then vinyl sheet flooring applied over with a cove upstand that the shower wall can lip over, but the trays are fine as long as the manufacturers instructions are adhered to. I also think that being able to service the trap and waste is important. McAlpine make some great kit and their technical guy, sorry forgotten your name, is one of the best and helped us out of some very unusual situations. Sensible advice and great video as usual, well done.

[@RyanJensenEE]

This is an unbelievably high quality instructional video. You are the man.

[@eazthitman]

For best performance and long life I always recommend shower panels as they are water proof, unlike tiled walls which are only water resistant and get dirty easily and are very hard to keep clean. I would also recommend an upstand shower tray. This set up does not rely on silicone to prevent leakage. If you want it to look nice with no silicone showing, use a pvc shower seal strip. This hides the silicone under the plastic and allows for plenty of movement. Personally I have always used tile adhesive to stick down the tray and never had a problem. I would also think that using silicone to both sides of the tray against the wall could also put strain on the tray itself if there was movement in the floor. Completely agree with the hardibacker etc on the walls and ply for the floor. Always take maximum precaution if you are fitting a shower upstairs as the damage from leakage can be extensive and expensive. A shower fitted in this way will give you many years of reliable service and save you money in the long run.

[@adamwrigh8805]

Hi Eazthehitman fantstic I love your way the best !!!!! How can i contact you 😃

[@eazthitman]

I see why you would say that but in my case I had the shower connections leak after about 7 years and this would have soaked the plasterboard and possibly cause mould/rot especially if it went un-noticed for a long time. I suppose aqua plasterboards would be ok. For me I'm belt and braces when it comes to showers so tend to used the best available products.

[@georgepppp533]

different to Australia, but the basic ideas are the same. so many showers leak here because builders cut corners on waterproofing.

[@paul756uk2]

Great vid as always Roger though don't agree with the joist run as I've always known them to run side to side rather than front to back in semis. Certainly mine, and my sons and many other I've seen do. Totally sympathise with the rant. Really annoys me when builders use plasterboard in wet areas.

[@terencehamill8475]

Semi here where joists run side to side at the back of the property, and front to back at the at front. :)

[@normanboyes4983]

Thanks for this Roger. After watching this and a couple of your directly associated videos I now realise there is one fundamental question to ask - and that is ‘Is a shower tray the only solution for this particular bathroom? If the answer is No - then do not fit a shower tray - go tiled!

[@DD-xt6vo]

Norman Boyes ~ Tiled was my first thought, replacing bath with shower. Looked at a few videos, some better than others, and I even drew up a composite plan of all the good methods. Only the resident work-person wasn't so keen (his mind was on the football) so stone resin tray is now frontrunner. Only the candidates can't agree on best MO. I rang supplier who said sand & cement, as does the mfr/guarantee. No small mystery is putting in a shower tray. If I could find an old rectangular porcelain kitchen sink I'd set that in place on something sticky myself.

[@johnf3326]

I coated my 18mm plywood with fibreglass resin, top, bottom and edges. Not because I expect water to leak from the tray, but because I will be putting a wet mix of 6:1 on it and it will take some time to dry out even after it is 'set' and I want to be 100% sure the plywood will not break down. The other issue is the drain. A fairly shallow fall but enough to tilt the waste trap. I had to slightly bend the pipe a few degrees using a heat gun in order for the trap seal to meet the shower base fully flat.

[@peterpuchalski817]

Absolutely agree with you there Roger. The only place for plaster board in a bathroom is on tbe ceiling, and that should possibly be moisture resistant if no suitable extraction is installed. I'm right at the point of deciding what flooring to use with two bathrooms, one sits above the other. I've watched loads of videos and taken note of different methods and will use some make/brand of cement board for the floor and walls but might consider the use of that other backer board. I'm tempted to use the Kerdi system or one of the similar ones to it. Problem I've got is trying to maintain floor levels between bathrooms and adjoining rooms so have to work out thickness of backer boards and tiles. I've also got PosiJoists so need to put plenty of noggins somehow to give good support. Thanks for another good video.

[@adrianburns7363]

Great video. I'm a little confused with laying a shower tray. In a previous video with James (extension #37) you fitted a shower tray onto a SBR treated chipboard with OB1 sealant. It doesn't suggest a de-coupling membrane? I get that the SBR primes the wood. The Mira flight tray is a more secure/tray so you would be happy with the product being sturdy enough. Thanks for the videos. 👍

[@MrTigertim09]

Top quality vidio bro we've had nothing but agro with our shower leaking through the bow stairs ceiling and now we know why. Thanks so much for your help

[@sandman7826]

Ridiculous. Pure alpha information. Just learned more about fitting a shower tray than I knew existed. Priceless. Well, about a few hundred quid to a grand of savings on rookie mistakes at least. Thanks, Roger.

[@jonathanwillis652]

Great video as always. A quick question: what are your views regarding riser kits with these trays? Would you advise resting the tray on plywood first to disperse and support the weight of the tray on the supports? To be honest, I'm finding that clients are turning against low level trays because of problems in the past from leaks and they want to be able to access the traps and pipework without cutting out the ceiling below.

[@SkillBuilder]

Yes, absolutely,. You need a firm floor but maybe just strips of ply under the feet

[@janakilakshminarayanan2040]

Thank you for such a beautiful explanation. I always love watching your videos even though i am not a plumber, but help me to check out for the do's and dont's of the plumbing if i have to look for ❤

[@ofah6378]

What about riser legs for a mira flight shower tray Roger? Don't care about the look of it being higher given it'll allow a bit of access to the trap but a few plastic legs are they really strong enough or are you better using your own timbers to make a frame?

[@ianclark9649]

The mira flight low profile trays on risers are pretty good. Just fitted one myself but tanked the moisture resistant plaster board with an Aquaseal kit. I also tanked over the plywood floor and sealed around the waste pipe going under the floorboards. Instead of tiles I used vistelle aqua panels. The riser legs are well made by Mira but for peace of mind I added some wooden batten supports for additional stability. If you plan it and look at a couple more of Rogers videos you adopt a ‘ belt and braces’ methodology.

[@davewright9312]

I installed my shower tray 15 years ago I raised the shower tray so that I can fully access and change the waste if needed without either cutting a hole in the ceiling below or ripping the shower out.i have had to replace the shower trap once in that time due to the chrome plating straying to delaminate from the trap but no other problems whatsoever.when I raised the shower I used timber to raise and a plywood panel sat on top to reinforce the shower tray floor.

[@amandawright3866]

I now no longer "don't know what I don't know!" Super confidence inspiring, insightful video delivered with enthusiasm and conviction. Thank you for the schooling - As a landlady who has been stung a number of times, I now feel more confident to oversee future work(person)ship ;-}. Also more appreciative of what goes into a good job and the importance of advance planning ref trap / joists positioning. Big Thank You.

[@davidmarsh8407]

Great video I've done everything including now lifting up my chipboard to put a ply down, can I ask what tape you recommend at the end the create the additional seal.

[@tjjmcgoun]

As a house builder who has built many many semi detached houses, I can tell you straight up the joists will go to the party wall, you have cavity between houses and the span is smallest outer to party than going front to back

[@paulwest5530]

Rodger what are your thoughts on PU expanding foam? Ive used this method on a few trays, not had any problems but not saying they won't in the future. My theory is that its extremely flexible and expands to fill the gaps so gives you even support. I always fit trays to 18mm ply.

[@LH-wn1wt]

Used this method for 20 odd years or more and never had a call back. Not sure I'd recommend it for the diyer though.

[@paulwest5530]

@@LH-wn1wt apart from the decoupling issues its such a huge time-saver over sand and cement and still allows for the flexibility. I would be curious to hear Rodgers thoughts on it

[@onlymise2758]

Morning Pal ..... you're spot on great tip with the poly ( Thanks for that ) I fit loads of these ..Always backer board and tank ..ya gotta do it folks ..... the amount of leks I've seen from lack of tanking even is unbelievable .... Once again Pal thanks for all the tips .. Loving all these Vids 38 years on site and still learning

[@dennishughes3250]

Excellent video. Did not detect a "rant" more free "experience" to many installers and DIY'ers. Thank you.

[@brianlopez8855]

When you fit the shower tray you must weigh it down with bricks or sand bags to pull them down fully before blobbing the tiled wall and leave them there until the seal goes off, otherwise the tray will leak soon after you start weighing the tray down when you step into it.