Mira Flight Takes a Nose Dive ~ Sorry Saga With a Twist

[@KendalMike]

Absolutely shocking and totally unacceptable for a supposedly premium brand. Mira seemed reluctant to take accountability or find a long term solution.

[@tonylee-UK]

Roger is the building trades equivalent of Martin Lewis.

[@SkillBuilder]

We seem to be getting a lot of consumer type problems these days.

[@andrewplumb6544]

​@@SkillBuilderis it because so few folk seem to have any real practical knowledge these days?

[@guywilkinson]

Yes, the real folk working in the companies supplying product 😢

[@KendalMike]

But Roger is far less annoying than Martin Lewis. I could listen to Roger all day but I struggle to tolerate Lewis for five minutes!

[@simonRTJ]

@@SkillBuilder here in NZ too, I see this when demand is so much higher for components like this, then as production goes up mistakes are made and management doesn't care about it, minor collateral when demand is very high, a few complaints doesn't harm business. (they think) meeting high demand, standards do drop for some companies, the appeal for higher revenue is too irresistible and consumers pay the price really.

[@spring899]

Shocking QC , will be avoiding Mira in the future . Its really not difficult to get this right .

[@davezipman8959]

You have my respect Roger. Having worked for 40 years in engineering and 25 in composites. I concur with every word. The real problem is the unwillingness of manufacturers, and I don't just mean Mira, to accept that the customer is more often than not right. The first thing any competent engineer at Mira should have done is put a straight edge across the face - shame it took your intervention to make it happen. I never understand why they don't spot face the outlet to the same diameter as the seal!

[@SkillBuilder]

Hi Dave I agree completely. The outlet should fit the seal. not hard to do.

[@nicolassales8679]

The default of most manufacturers is blame the installer. They couldn’t care less about the retailer, installer or the customer it’s all about the money

[@mich29sm]

Totally agree. It's this or blame customer and his view. My wife used to work for some well known British cooking appliances' manufacturer. When customer made a complaint that something was wrong they blame customers' expectations! Like: Oven is blowing scorching hot air towards operator hands. Advice: read manual, check the weight of whatever you baking and so on... Or: maybe it is not this hot, your perception may be wrong (yeah, go to your GP and check your health in perception sense). With this approach the company is heading to collapse.

[@tomp.8129]

"Straight edge, what is that?"😆

[@Viewer765]

@@SkillBuilder what trays do you recommend you can easily buy from Victoria plumb etc

[@Lacebylad]

Mira would continue to get away with poor quality as any after effects are generally a couple of years down the line and the original installer would probably get the blame. Insurance claim, all ripped out and replaced, rinse and repeat. We need more skilled builders to continue to expose them. Top job again.

[@bernardsmith152]

I was a kitchen and bathroom designer for 25 years , I had a chance to visit the Matki shower tray factory in Redruth, Cornwall and see how they were made. I have personally installed 3 of these in my own homes over the years and never had any problems such as in this video. I have sold hundreds of them to customers and plumbers and cannot recall any complaints. Matki for me everytime, Mira for the shower valve.

[@multirevelator]

Agree!, Mira make a very reliable shower bar for around 100 quid, can't be beat in that price range

[@alantomlinson3858]

I agree, Mira outdated now, not kept up with the times

[@stewartmcardle8149]

Brilliant suggestion Roger but, if this is fabricated using a blown mould Mira will just have to fabricate a new mould with your suggested recommendation and destroy the original that has a bloody major design fault!

[@RB-xg2vz]

I’m glad you made this video. I was planning to buy Mira flight shower tray earlier this year based on your recommendation - both plumbers who quoted to install said to AVOID Mira Flight because of this exact issue; quality has dropped and they get complaints from customers about leaks. Needless to say I bought another brand.

[@forevertranmere]

Hi, I’m currently due to refurbish my bathroom at the moment and was in the same boat as you about going with MIRA. What brand did you go with in the end ? Thanks

[@tomp.8129]

Oh dear, was going to get the Flight version as well as it suits my waste location, please update

[@tomp.8129]

As I had already prepped my waste to suit location on this pan I went with this anyway. Yes, the base of pan around the aperture where waste connects does not come flat as it should be although there are marks of grinding on it. On mine the base aperture is actually quite flat with only approx 1 mm hump, but I noticed that the plastic waste mating surface is bowed out as well a tad more than base and also bowed in. What I done so far is flattened the base with flap disc and straightened the waste with heat gun. Now when offered the two together joint seals up nicely, seal is pretty soft and with some good silicone or even something better should get a good seal. I would suggest to everyone to check your fittings and base as soon as you got it before fitting anything and make sure the waste sits tight against base with no gaps before proceeding any further. Or buy something else.

[@storegga]

One of the many thousands of bathrooms/complex problems Roger has ever set foot in and his experience to. Amazing. The industry is going more corporate and the goal is MVP- minimal viable product. Manufacturing Quality is evaporating and the skill of the installer and trades are bridging the gap.

[@ashhammond]

Rodger, I cannot thank you enough for this video. I’m a carbon copy of this customer. I’m a complement DIY and have followed your advise for installed my shower tray to the letter also. Sat in my garage waiting to be installing in my MIRA Flight tray. Guess what I will be doing before this tray is installed! Thank you again. I will keep you posted

[@ronnierobinson1502]

Shocking ....the mould must be faulty at manufacturer's, great video roger 😀

[@alexcharles321]

I think I'd have given up after the second replacement.... but good to show how you followed the course and eventually gotten a satisfactory result 👍🏼 5th times the charm?

[@beijingbond]

How hard can it be for a top company to make flush the most important sealing area of their product? I'm amazed that they struggle with this, but i'm more amazed that they haven't seen it as an area of concern before now. I wonder how many of these trays are dripping around the country as I type.....

[@habsom1406]

Exactly what I was thinking too, dripping away with the kitchen ceiling about to collapse at any time.

[@mechanoid5739]

From this video 4 out of five will be dripping. But it is caused by a communication error apparently!

[@tomp.8129]

Hopefully not as bad as these shown and extra silicone holds it all together... 😂

[@daves4026]

Thank you Rodger for helping out. Your one of the few people I trust when it comes to building works and common sense.

[@simongreenidge6454]

I (just a DIYer) fitted a 900 x 900 Mira flight tray (the shallower version) with a McAlpine trap, back in March '23. Feeling a bit relieved that I also applied neutral silicone between the trap's gasket and the tray, as it may have made all the difference.

[@KennyEvansUK]

LSX is your friend.

[@cornishplumber5051]

CT 1 is even friendlier )

[@tomp.8129]

Might still go with Flight as well with the extra sealant to make sure...

[@markrainford1219]

Your manufacturing solution was exactly what I was thinking myself; make it bigger and CNC the excess off.

[@DjDolHaus86]

The problem from their perspective is that making it bigger costs more and reduces profit, they've obviously crunched the numbers and found that the number of units returned via warranty cost less than making them properly in the first place. Happens all the time in manufacturing

[@howardosborne8647]

If they CNC cut the bloody mould accurately then the trays would all come out as an accurate mirror image....there shouldn't be any need for some monkey with a grinderette freehanding the waste boss.

[@willbee6785]

Same here.

[@sw6188]

@@howardosborne8647 Exactly what I was thinking. If the mould was flat at the bottom of the boss then every tray would be flat there too. Someone in the mould creation department doesn't understand what is needed. Either that or they don't realize how easy it is to get it right.

[@tomp.8129]

Just seems like this batch was made not in their usual factory skipping few major checks in process.

[@AlanWarrenBelfastArchitect]

That suggests major quality control issues and, or, design problems. What chance do plumbers and builders have if this is the quality of fittings?

[@maxwalsh7882]

Excellent timing. I was about to buy a Mira shower tomorrow...(bathroom refurb) but I think you've saved me a lot of pain. Nice one Roger!

[@jasonshulme]

That's quite amazing that such a major brand were producing trays with wastes that weren't anywhere near flat. No wonder a seal couldn't be formed. I always use McAlpine wastes as I don't won't leaks. Their quality is always consistent and you don't need to use silicone which can cause the rubber seals to skid. It is great that Mira took onboard your feedback and should hopefully prevent this in the future but it certainly does make you think.

[@JohnStowers]

The condescending tone in the email, blaming or inplying the customer was rejecting these for cosmetic reasons would have been the end of the story here for me. I would have dropped the product in the trash. Happy to see Skill Builder made a video showing the rejections were from testing the product, and humiliated Mira here. Hopefully one company can improve one product. These days in the UK you have to take small victories.

[@stephen66d]

Trading for 26 years I have seen Mira gradually go from top trusted quality to cheap plastic junk, they seem to feel the need to keep their prices set at 1999 level which is bonkers. I understand why they may need to have a budget range, but this reduction in quality spans the whole product range now. i've had quite a few of the new shower valves fail with the plastic body cracking internally. Such a shame as I always used to recommend Mira because of the quality and spares availability. Hopefully Mira have a rethink and start to rebuild their brand.

[@cuebj]

Over 25 years ago, had similar with Ikea vanity unit. 3 replacements, then one that was good. The problem was how they were packed, so they broke in handover at the store

[@malcolmfunnell4501]

Every product I’ve fitted over the last two years has been inferior to what it used to be

[@neil1997]

Did i read that right? "If we grind the seal area flat it'll affect the cosmetic appearance". I always install Mira (though their wastes are bobbins!) and have never once had a comment about the sealing area being attractive or otherwise 😂 Another great video, we really don't get enough ultra-detailed content like this on YT. Whether Mira (re-) up their game, or one leaky install (and call back...) Is avoided, glad i watched. Thanks SB!

[@Czechbound]

*"Mira : We make every 5th tray properly for your comfort and confidence !"* ... What a business ... The basic thing you want a shower tray to do is not to leak. And Mira only have a 20% hit rate on doing this. And they don't seem to concerned ( that letter was just putting their fingers in their ears and repeating "everything is fine. Everytthing is fine" ). I'd look elsewhere.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

I’ve had great success with moisture cure acrylic sealant as used on car body joints. It’s even repaired kids school shoes. Any parent will tell you that’s impossible. The big advantage is that (unlike silicone) it’s not greasy when wet. If you can’t get a better tray, use come Tiger Seal or similar from a car paint shop.

[@davidkelly455]

As a plumber of 47 years I'm am sick of working around sub standard materials

[@stephengraham1153]

Thank you for this video which initially caused me some concern. Like Mike I had a leaking shower. So down came the plasterboard, some of the wooden studwork and up went a new metal stud partition (to enlarge the shower room) and new elements boards all of which were waterproofed, same as Mike, by following the instructions in your videos. Along the way I also re-routed pipes, reinforced the floor and rebuilt the soil stack. Based on your recommendation, I have just installed a shallow Mira Flight shower tray, size 1200 x 1000. The floor is uneven so I used the Mira Flight riser kit to level the tray. Fortunately this also gives me access to the underside of the tray. I'm paranoid about leaks so I always pressure test copper pipework and check solvent welds for leaks on plastic pipework. I have just re-tested the shower tray waste outlet and I'm please to say that the underside is a dry as a bone. I believe that my tray was made using a different mould so it doesn't suffer from the same problems as the deep square shower tray used by Mike (and I didn't use silicon on the gasket). Thank you Roger for your videos. They are an invaluable resource. Although not finished yet, I'm confident that my shower will not leak, thanks to your guidance.

[@effervescence5664]

We've had back to back trays recently with the same issue, not sure what's going on with Mira trays but their moulds definitely want changing out or redesigning.

[@fergy1ful]

That's a real shame. I followed your advice pretty much to the letter about 18 months ago and ended up with a leak proof shower enclosure (and I'm just a DIY er). It was also a Mira flight tray and it's been a great success. Clearly, Mira has taken (to use their phrase) a 'negative dip' . I'll be moving house soon which basically means doing all the same jobs all over again, but maybe this time, Mira won't be the 'go to' product.

[@kiwigrunt330]

But it is a gold standard negative dip...

[@therachaeledit]

Wow, thought it was just us having issues with Mira. The trouble is their showers look beautiful, but the inner workings let you down. Our Mira showerhead snapped clean off randomly - inside it was just cheap thin plastic. Despite offering a 5 year guarantee they wouldn't honour it. So I bought a replacement and the showerhead dropped down and wouldn't stay in position. Going through 3 showerheads in 4 years (when the original one had a 5 year guarantee!) isn't the mark of good quality. Given they aren't the cheapest brand this is disappointing.

[@howardosborne8647]

Time to turn away from them if the quality control is as poor as seen in the video. Not honouring the warranty also rings alarm bells.

[@troyboy4345]

Looks like MIRA struggle to produce a bore in a material with 2 equally faced, parallel mating surfaces at any given point to create an equal surface for the trap to fit correctly .... I reckon Derek at the QC just wants his Sausage roll tea break, a simple vernier caliper would have helped him.

[@funkeybikemonkey]

You get this an annoying amount, not just with Mira either. It's just a shame that the customer always thinks it is your fault. I always check them now. The ones I buy from Bella bathrooms have all been spot on. The posh bathroom shop supplying the hi end is always 3 returns. It doesn't always pay to get the higher end stuff.

[@clivelockwood3236]

That tray needs to be replaced it has not been milled properly that surface should be flat.

[@AshleighPeacock]

I fitted a mira flight shower tray a few months ago and could not get the rubber to seal. After 3 attempts I gave up and used silicone - which, touch wood, has been leak free since install. Other than that issue, I was really quite happy with the tray and the riser kit.

[@richardhalliday6469]

Great content - yet another case of brand complacency, MIRA have well known product which now appears to be cheapened, it looks to me like QC at the most important part of a plumbing product i e. the water seal design has been left up in the air for the installer to finish off in whatever ingenious way he can come up with. Good on you Roger for highlighting the problem AND the name of the company. In the future they could perhaps work on this issue and actually make a sale point of it, you know the sort of thing ' So and so shower tray , the one guaranteed not to leak '. Id buy one !!

[@jacko791]

I used to follow your advice and fit the seals with no sealant but have had a few issues so now I always use it. Sad to see that a known brand like Mira who actually bother to machine to surface are failing to do it properly. Most of the unbranded ones I end up fitting from VP are completely unfinished and you have no chance without a bit of sealant

[@peep39]

Mira's comments on the matter remind me of the lies that typically come from our politicians on this side of the pond. You can tell them it leaks, show them it leaks, illustrate the problem, put it 100% back on them, and they shrug it off anyway with some lame comment that doesn't even address the actual issue

[@spring899]

Absofuckinglutely.

[@howardosborne8647]

🤣@@spring899

[@Graham_Shaw]

The variance in the finish of every one of those trays.. OMG! Their moulding proccess needs a serious rework. Mira Flight, where quality control flew right out the window.

[@cedarstuff]

Can't believe they are making basic "right first time" errors. Their internal quality controls on that shower need a serious review.

[@mechanoid5739]

I think the thing that I have learnt from this video is to inspect the waste sealing area of any make of tray before fitting.

[@Monkey_slapping_keys]

That end product plus the blurb they gave is truly embarrassing. Cheers for showing this.

[@LeverGating]

Well done Roger, we need more people like you to save our industry. We all know what poor quality did for British Leyland, but to many manufactures are still looking to say cost at the risk of letting high standards go down the drain.

[@markatchison9974]

It is possible to rectify the issue with car body filler & sand the area flat before fitting. Of course, I would want a significant discount on the tray (70%) if Mira agreed, & I doubt they would.

[@MadDog_Rules]

I was thinking the same thing, would be great if someone could answer it :-)

[@Life_of_John]

I'm an engineer and you are totally correct. Mira need to leave more material on the trap area you mention, then machine it flat. An extra step but well worth it to make a quality product. I'll be doing my bathroom soon with a walk in shower using your videos for guidance. I'll be sure to look at this area on any tray I buy. Thank you.

[@Honest_Reviewer.]

Thank you for helping out.

[@richardnicholas569]

Hmm, I’ve just ordered a Mira Flight Safe LL tray 😮. I’ll have to inspect carefully upon arrival and I’d better start research an alternate option. Thank for explaining the issues and how we can QC before installing.

[@HootMaRoot]

I am wondering was the company bought over recently? As many companies especially these days when they make a good name for themselves are bought out by a massive parent company which makes them cut costs

[@robthesamplist]

Screw tops on plastic bottles designed to be thrown away stay sealed forever when tightened up....high end shower tray....leaks.

[@edmundhodgson2572]

I was at a meeting with a customer just as your first mira shower tray video came out and as she was sourcing the stuff I recommended mira for the tray. Ours arrived like this but it came with a turbo waste which had an enormous base gasket washer so went for it. It leaked. So I nipped it a little tighter, a bit more, and it stopped. Two months later and the top cap screw had shattered and the trap was hanging. I ended up replacing the top parts and slathered a new washer with ls-x and its all working fine. I'm not proud though....

[@user-te1le7ck6b]

LSX will outlive that tray so rest easy pal

[@Thereishope664]

I always use Kudos showers and trays. Well made and never had a leak.

[@SkillBuilder]

I have been told by my merchant that Kudos are good. I will try them

[@MadDog_Rules]

Mira only have a 10 year warranty on their shower trays, 2 years on their electric showers, 2 years on their shower pumps and so on. Kudos has a lifetime warranty on faulty materials and workmanship on all of their products.

[@peepiepo]

I installed a Mira shower tray recently and very much regretted it. Most of the issues were to do with using the riser kit. The legs don't fit well, and the lock rings come undone very easily so if you slide the tray along the floor a bit to get it in position they end up wonky and come undone. Also, tightening the lock ring actually makes the leg slightly longer which made it a nightmare to get level while maintaining an even weight on each leg. The front plastic panel was also quite awful. It was not moulded to fit, but a straight flexible piece that you had to bend around the tray, which didn't give a very nice finish, held in with clips attached to sticky pads which come unstuck after awhile. They recommend essentially slapping loads of silicon under and around the panel to hold it in place which given it's shape was not very feasible. Another problem I had was finding a silicone that would stick well to seal the tray. For some reason any silicone I tried would have bits that had not stuck properly and came unstuck very easily. This was after meticulously cleaning with meths and CTec Multi-solve. It always felt like there was some odd residue leaching out of the plastic of the tray. The other peeve was the way the area around the waste drops sharply to a flat ring rather than sloping down. This leaves a narrow channel around the waste that is hard to clean and also means several wastes I wanted to use weren't compatible with the tray. Even the waste they supplied had a rubber seal with a gradient on it that is meant to fit a slope. Oh and another thing was that the straight top edges of the tray aren't flat. They have a slight gradient from the corner up to the middle then back down to the corner, which made getting the tray dead level even harder. Rant over.

[@scollyer.tuition]

I fitted a Mira shower tray some time ago, and had exactly the same problem with the riser kit. I'd forgotten all about that. (And I had the same problem as Roger when fitting the waste)

[@dwalker7720]

​@scollyer.tuition what did you do to solve the problem? Also I bought a 900x800 mira flight tray, do you no what size I need for a enclosure?

[@jamesperry1443]

I recently bought and installed 2 Mira Flight trays in my new home based on skill builder recommendation. Both leaked like this and I had to use silicone the trap. Now I’m really worried that the tray will not stay leak free as I hoped.

[@handymanTW12]

Well done Roger, unbelievable and fair play to the customer to sticking it to them.

[@RafalZolnacz]

Imagine How many hundreds of Mira trays are out there in wild already installed and dripping

[@craigmountford1235]

Hi great video, I am about to start a little project of my own to replace the shower and upgrade the bathroom, following on from one of your previous videos and recommendations I was going to use a Mira flight shower tray, I am put off now, can you recommend any other brand? Thanks Craig

[@kieranokeeffe1363]

Brilliant as always Roger, hope Mikes bathroom gets sorted

[@danielbridges2946]

This is my exact problem! Shocking from Mira, the standard of the tray around the waste is utterly crap.. I'm able to lift the shower tray onto and off the trap, I've changed waste twice, redone the pipework twice, every time it leaks. This video is brilliant.. I can't send the tray back though as it was Facebay, so I'll be getting a big of tube of mastic and gluing the seal on!

[@markpaul1154]

Similar Problem with a famous WC Manufacturer beginning with A. Just could stop them leaking through the doughnut from the flush pipe and seeping through the bottom of the tank. They kept using the condensation excuse. So we filled a tank with red food die and low and behold it was leaking red die through the casting of the cistern. In the end we gave up and switched to AKW and solved the issue and they looked far better for an extra £5 a unit.

[@SkillBuilder]

I have had that self same issue where there is no glaze on the internal water way so it is porous.

[@martinhunt4816]

I bought a Mira Flight Level Rectangle 1200 x 900 slate tray a year ago, the long rectangular waste slot had been ground away at one end to produce a 6mm drop from level. Checked before fitting and emailed mira who replied that this was substandard and 'do not install'. Toolstation replaced this tray very quickly and efficiently and the second one is fitted and no leaks. Although the underside sealing face was not quite perfect, the long, small width of the waste could easily conform to it, the four attaching screws helped with a secure fit.

[@galaxydave69]

Ive seen a fair few of these trays with a issue i would describe as de laminating when the white finish separates from the tray

[@cuebj]

Very similar issue with some model railway point motors in a recent video by Mckinley Railway. I don't do trains but happened on them as an example of a miniature big project management exercise

[@curmudgeon]

Mira has been in business for years and should be making perfect trays. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made in China if you look into it. If a veteran DIYer like myself encountered the issue, they would blame me for the leak and say that I was installing it incorrectly. It's a bit like the Ronseal varnish problem I've shown on my channel; it's never the manufacturer's fault.

[@howardosborne8647]

Doesn't always do exactly what it says on the tin 🤣

[@paulprescott7913]

Absolutely agree with you. What i suspect is they get the base product made in China, then finish it off in the UK. As i understand it if you do a big percentage of the work here, you can say it made in England.

[@syrus3k]

Yup this is it. There's nothing wrong with it being made in China but Mira UK isn't checking the process so they're still the ones to blame

[@paulprescott7913]

@@syrus3k there is a lot wrong with anything made in China.

[@syrus3k]

@@paulprescott7913 I meant from a practical point of view, not ethical

[@georgehodder6582]

That has always been my concern,thanks for the heads up.

[@errolwhyte3903]

Another fantastic video from skill builder

[@kendom33]

Great video Rodger. Well done on your recommendations to myra. I'm going to do an ensuite this winter and had intended to use tge flight tray. But I'll check it first now before installation. Thank you

[@thomascoyne157]

I’m about to fit Mira flight tray, would I be better off doing the same as you did to see if it will seal the one looks like honeycomb on the bottom of it 👍👍👍

[@nicolassales8679]

Send it back and buy from another manufacturer

[@bertRaven1]

great work Roger!

[@jameskirk578]

Would it be possible to to wet assemble the seal? Silicon on both sides of the seal would probably help with a three day cure just to make sure the silocon has hardened properly. There is also a primer that can be applied to improve silicon adhesion. I reaslise we shouldn't have to on brand new fittings bit sometimes we have to. Interested in your thoughts Roger.

[@zeeshan5257]

I did this as mine as it leaked exactly the same as they have shown in the video- no leaks since - had a few shower and left a floorboard up so I could check.

[@JC-zw9vs]

Just about to install 6 trays. V glad I saw this. Nothing is going in that hasnt been tested like this.

[@masterof]

Oh NO....I have just ordered a Mira Flight Safe shower tray 1200x800mm a few days ago, which to be arriving next week! Together with a Mira Elevate shower enclosure, Mira tap, the whole set! I will have to test it myself carefully, check if it leaks, before the builder puts it on! What a Mira! I thought I paid the premium for a quality product, but now I know they are just ordinary people, no better than any unknown brand on the market. This brand has just suddently dropped out from my wish list...Should have bought cheaper products...I hope mine will not leak so it won't delay my whole bathroom project!

[@adrianred236]

Seeing quality isues with Ideal Standard too. Working on a Modular project where IS was specified by the arhitect. After about 40 units the tray was suddenly much much lighter and broke easily. After a lot of toing and froing we had to change to a different supplier.

[@GaryAppledale]

Exceellent work Roger. Mira will have you bumped off if you’re not careful. 😆

[@g.johnson3119]

well done Roger for highlighting this problem. thought you were generous to Mira at the end though given their pragmatic appraisel on quality control. never mind its only a customers ceiling! I would not fit one despite your reassurance until part 2 is posted…

[@SkillBuilder]

You are probably right about the generosity but they have assured me they are on top of it now and even invited me to come and see their production. If it turns out not to be the case we will act accordingly. I really have no desire to damage a company and the British jobs that go with it.

[@fabianmckenna8197]

I had my bathroom totally redone with a walkin shower while on holiday and the guys did an excellent job. Only problem was a call telling us of a delay due to our 1700x700 tray being curved. Thought they might be stringing us along but on arriving home with the installation almost finished there were THREE shower trays lying in the hall! For the fourth tray they actually went to another supplier ...... just crazy.

[@NickLaslett]

Good video to highlight problems, but a follow-up would be appreciated detailing the pros and cons of various sealing remedies. The assumption has to be that most products will need some help. In the comments people mention neutral silicon, LSX, Plumbers mait, etc. And using a dab or a slavering, etc. Then there is the top flange and the bottom seal. And can any of this easily be undone? More details would be most helpful.

[@-htl-]

Great job Roger, together making a better product. Everybody wins!

[@richh8860]

Thank you for highlighting this Roger,unfortunately in todays world everything is Value Engineered within an inch of its life and sadly bordering on not being fit for purpose and the poor installer cops it every time. The prices keep going up and the quality goes down and sadly this is the case across most manufacturing sectors.

[@42RHD]

Thank you! Sometimes trying to install these things, however carefully you follow the instructions, does not go according to the manufacturers claims! The manufacturers mould is clearly very poor and they are trying to compensate by hand, which is not working.

[@alansmith9412]

ive never been a fan of mira trays as i had a couple on new builds that have cracked,i fit stone resin every time

[@SkillBuilder]

Mira makes stone resin.

[@BusinessButlers]

It begs the question of what will happen to the 4 trays that get returned to Mira. Cynical me thinks they will be despatched to other unwitting customers

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

I am not sure, but my personal research some years ago led me to seal shower tray wastes with neutral cure silicone as i have read acetoxy silicone attacks rubber and plastic, and even mcalpines website says it should not be used... So this would explain leaking after a couple of years. I have never had a leak on any showers or baths i have fitted.

[@johnvine5731]

I had this type of problem on a Mira tray about 5 years ago. The underside of the hole was not parallel with the top side of the hole and the finish was really not smooth at all. I had to do some grinding, filing, and finishing work, to get the waste fitting to sit nicely on the underside of the tray. I remember the instructions explicitly said not to use any silicon sealant on the waste fitting, so I didn't. I bedded and levelled the tray on a sand and cement bed, as per the Mira instruction, and let it set up. I was not willing to move the tray after this operation. The underside work was done via a 100mm hole in the flooring, which was 300ml away from the Mira waste hole. I connected the waste pipe to the waste fitting, did a water test, and discovered a leak from the waste fitting seal. After many attempts, and eventually opting to use silicon sealant (against the MIra instruction), I managed to get a leak free installation. With 40 years of plumbing and heating experience I can count the number of leaks I have had on one hand. This Mira waste was a struggle. It will be remembered.

[@eddjordan2399]

i just buy neoprene sheet and use the supplied gasket as a stencil and then throw it in the bin. if its good enough for a submarines it will do in the shower. you can buy the stuff in sheets in most thickness it isn't to cheap but cheaper than removing a tray, great vid as always skill builder.

[@scollyer.tuition]

That's not a bad idea.

[@reginaldhornswoggle8106]

I'm not an expert by any means but, wouldn't it make more sense to have a short spigot moulded as part of the shower tray? Then connect your waste trap to the spigot. No more leaks, or am I missing something?

[@RatchetMonkey]

As someone who is just about to replace their shower and looking for a new tray this is absolutely shocking and I would have assumed it was myself installing it incorrectly if I was having this issue. 5 trays later, there should be a recall. Wonder how many people have leaking trays without even knowing or had to bodge it. Gives you little confidence in suppliers these days. Will be steering well clear of this brand. Thanks for the video.

[@RatchetMonkey]

P.S, roger would you have any brand recommendations? Thanks

[@andyc972]

Cheers Roger, well done in holding them to account !

[@chapman9230]

Great to see upstand tape being used

[@nicholaswright7802]

Superb Roger!

[@gregoryg2003]

I bet they have had to up production because they were highly recommended and the inspection has slipped

[@nice8523]

I spoke to Mira 10/04/2024 they said this problem was restricted to one particular uncommon size and problem now sorted out and that Roger should have given an update to that effect, any comments Roger? I am undecided whether to buy Mira Flight safe tray that exactly meets my requirements, but definitely don't want leaks to go with it!

[@SkillBuilder]

We did give an update but we then found they were still sending out the defective trays so we have removed the update until they assure us it is solved.

[@robertbamford8266]

A bit discouraging to think that a hole in the ceiling was necessary to see the problem before …. It caused a hole in the ceiling.

[@PDMGlobal]

Great video Roger - I wish I had seen this before I bought my Mira flight 2 weeks ago. Fitted in place trap done up and same leaks you see here. Fuming is not the word! Mira you are getting a call Monday as I now have no confidence and I’ve fitted the tray and tiled it in. I have tenants that can’t use the shower now this is costing me money which I will come after you for. I went for Mira as a know. And reputable brand. That reputation has just been shattered. How can you know about this and not recall all product at your customer merchants!!!

[@42NeilH]

Just to add another data point, I have also installed a mira flight and have the exact same issue. Mine (bought in May 2023) doesn't seem to be as far out of level as some of those in the video, but I still cant get the the seal on the trap to be watertight no matter how much I tighten it. And the tray is now installed and tiled around, so I'm stuck with it. I do have access underneath, so might have to just bite the bullet and apply some kind of sealant (CT1?) and cross my fingers it lasts. Lessons learnt: 1) Avoid Mira shower trays. 2) Always test the seal between the tray and the trap before installation, not after.

[@jcsubmit]

Just spent 400 quid on a Mira Flight base and glad I saw this video! I measured the connection pad and it is not flat by about 1mm, which is perhaps acceptable, but very shoddy for a supposed quality brand. I'll do a serious leak test before a final installation. Thanks JC

[@SkillBuilder]

Hi JC I think a couple of millimetres will be fine. I think, if there is any doubt I would ditch the trap they provide and go for a McAlpine.

[@jcsubmit]

Ta@@SkillBuilder

[@brickers911]

I had a look at these trays for an upcoming project but TBH the pricepoint put me off they are considerably more expensive than competitors, and if they can not maintain quality control its a definite no no for me, i;ve never had any issues when I see any irregularities with basins bath or trays as I always hit it with some plumbers mate.

[@SkillBuilder]

Plumber's Mate breaks down with soap and detergents, it is no good long term.

[@dartmoorkid4797]

As a professional I have always found it good to mix and match with plumbing products. One well known company makes excellent taps but their electric showers/showers valves are less than great. Similarly I have always found Mira electric showers and valves to be reliable (and spares are available for ever!) but tended towards using Matki shower trays. Unsurprisingly it seems you cannot depend on one manufacturer to be good at everything. If you have to use mastic then Fernox LS-X seems to be the best product in my experience.

[@gavinellis1999]

Thanks for all your informative videos over the years including this one. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on one of these, but paused for thought after watching this. Are there any other products you would recommend instead of this one that could also be installed safely straight on plywood?

[@lukewhiting3025]

Your videos are so helpful 👍🏻 thank you

[@bxl181]

fwiw, we installed a Mira Flight 'Low' (no upstand etc) shower tray with legs a few months ago. The hole in the tray is much larger than the tray in your video. The tray came with 90mm Rapi-Flo Chrome Plated Shower Waste Trap. The 90mm hole for the trap seemed well finished with no bevel. The Rapiflo also comes with 2 seals to fit either side of the hole in the tray. We didn't use any silicone and it is leak free. Could it just be an issue with Mira trays with the smaller 50mm holes. I note the supplied trap in your video may be only has one seal?

[@SkillBuilder]

I have only ever fitted the larger traps and I think it is a fair point. The other problem is the trap they supply.

[@alpsp881]

I also have the Mira Flight Low (QC checked July 2023) with 90mm waste hole and the casting around the waste hole was flat. I've done the same test as the video with the supplied waste fitted, left it for an hour with some water resting around the waste at the top and it is dry underneath - no leaks. I checked by rubbing blue roll around the bottom seal as blue roll shows water better that white kitchen roll. I didn't apply silicone to the waste as its not ready for fitting yet but I think I will keep the supplied waste, it seems decent quality compared to the generic wastes usually supplied.

[@KennyEvansUK]

How that flange isn't flat I don't know. When you're expected to fit a flat seal on it, anything other than flat isn't going to work, as we saw in the video. As Roger says, to just build that flange up and mill it flat, or even just manufacture the flange flat, can't be that big of an ask, it would be a basic retooling of a jig or mould and at the end of the day, it absolutely has to be flat. Even those grinder marks can cause water seepage. Very lax on Mira's account but another great video Roger, absolutely top drawer to highlight this.

[@arggreen4649]

I’ve installed almost only Mira trays for the past 10 years and I have noticed in the past year they’ve changed the waste and washer type. The washer used to be fatter and would almost compress when the two parts we screwed with screws. Now you have to turn the top into the bottom manually with no given tool. I wonder if this has changed a lot. I did often take a second look at the finish condition of the underside of the waste hole.