Do Not Make a PVC Pipe Bow Until You Watch This

[@keyosuke]

As much as I've grown far away from any kind of PVC for anything, I can't say enough how much I respect telling people to test materials before doing a DIY. Thanks for this message of caution.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+keyosuke Thank you for watching!

[@GurtGobain]

I just tried this but the staff at Home Depot got really mad at me.

[@youngbreath6358]

Bad joke

[@GRDray]

Phil M lol.

[@raphaelbird1423]

I- fuk yes

[@zaobmontana9115]

Yarcofin 😂😂😂

[@TheDesertwalker]

Did you test it with a Home Depot hammer?

[@sergeantbigmac]

I just can not believe the people criticizing you because your video is longer than THEY think it needs to be... Content that is FREE to them btw. I hate people sometimes.

[@bullswoodworks8398]

Youre so right. LOL. I hate people all of the time.

[@caswallonandflur692]

I love every one . I just hate the assholes ! 😏

[@NPCSN]

True story.

[@jameshutto3047]

I never understood complaints against free content

[@laokon]

sometimes?

[@melcrose]

and if you wrapped the finished bow in tape, chances of a "kill your eye" explosion are reduced drastically

[@Nighthawkinlight]

Yikes. I've always trusted the Charlotte pipe myself for pressure use, I may have to retest. Certainly you wouldn't want to trust a pipe that brittle after it's taken a hit. I haven't seen it brittle to that point except after years of hot and cold storage

[@BackyardBowyer]

+NightHawkInLight I know! Charlotte pipe has always been a favorite because of its reliability. The of things it is that it's only become a problem this year. Before that, I would only have one or two failures. Both pipes I used were from the same bundle, and that particular batch ended up with about 60% failing. Thanks for watching!

[@cucklord2310]

NightHawkInLight I love your channel

[@jevaikramullah8798]

NightHawkInLight wow hi there

[@Strange-Viking]

U.v. is the biggest culprit if not manufactured like that bad.

[@banon9573]

The difference you are seeing between pipes is most likely a result of storage between the time of manufacture and the date of sale. UV is the most corrosive element. A pipe the outside of the bundle may have been exposed to sunlight for a prolonged period of time which could result in it becoming brittle. A pipe from the center of the same bundle would have virtually no exposure to UV so it would remain far more flexible. I have seen PVC water pipes in basements burst because they were exposed to sunlight through a window for a couple of years. Take this into account when you make anything from PVC pipe. There are several good paints available now that will adhere to PVC. If you want PVC to last paint it to protect it from UV light.

[@TheDIYMaster]

It's too late backyard Bowyer and everyone watching I used bad pvc and made a bow. The bow snapped and the string whipped me in the eye. Now I have a scar on my eye lid. Tbh looks sick af

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Rubber Propelled Weapons Are you alright? I'm sorry to hear your bow broke. If anything, welcome to the brotherhood of broken bows. I myself have more than a few scars from bow explosions, mostly from wood bows. I had posted a similar video before, but not many people saw it. I hoped a more clickbait-esque title would reach more people. Thanks for watching!

[@broderickelliott8527]

@@BackyardBowyer have you experimented with the merits of different types of PVC, such as CPVC, gray conduit, orange, purple, blue and black (if they even make black or blue in a "1 gauge)? I'm paying attention with this hammer test, but I wondered if the different chemical compositions of these pipes might make a difference. I watched a video where someone made a sling-bow with the orange. I also wondered if you had tried heat treating the pipes and then retesting them after an appropriate cooling time and what the outcome was.

[@XaceLeem]

Crazy russian hacker where safety is #1 priority

[@thegreatoutdoors1075]

Rubber Propelled Weapons That made me spend the extra 3 dollars to get furniture grade, thanks - Conor

[@iliricumdrymountain8092]

What if a string is put through pipe, if it snaps string will make everything just safer

[@Keyboardbeatz]

I took a hammer to my hardware store and started smashing PVC pics. Now I'm banned. Thanks Nic

[@smartsontv7077]

uwotm8 lol

[@Tj-bt7yy]

😭🤷🏾‍♂️

[@AshishBhedarkar]

😂😂😂

[@robotman7945]

Goodjob

[@Arrowheadmaker]

Just buy one a hope for the best, but yes he is right on getting a good pipe !

[@Christos1680]

I think the brittleness of the pipe is due to the storage condition of the material depending on the distributor that stores buy their supply from.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Christos1680 That could be possible, but it doesn't account for how many pipes now fail compared to before. Even virgin pipes straight from the manufacturer still have this problem. That and pipe stored outdoors tends to turn yellow with UV exposure. Thanks for watching!

[@johnkeck1025]

I agree with you, i think the pvc manufacturers DO need to make a pipe that is specifically suited for the craft industry. Your input on that would be most valuable. Thanks for a great video!

[@hopefilledsinner3911]

WOW! thankyou, I've made several PVC bows and never had a problem it just shows you the subtle differences in plastic. Sunlight can effect most plastics over time.

[@MissionaryInMexico]

I used to own a landscape installation corporation. I used this exact test at the store to test the schedule 40 pipe I used for irrigation systems and fish ponds and fountains.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Cristos Palabras Thank you for sharing!

[@RPSchonherr]

I would have this problem with using pipe cutters. Some pipe cracked when you tried to cut it, others went right through. I would be spending more money sharpening the cutter blade so that it wasn't worth using anymore.

[@asurasyn]

Like a boss

[@KaiTenSatsuma]

And they let you do it?

[@MrCh0o]

@@KaiTenSatsuma I suppose you could just pay for the piece you're going to be testing?

[@Scottishblacksmith61]

Duncan here, Thank You So MUCH !!! I was going out today or tomorrow to start a bow for the first time and WOW what an eye opener !!!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Duncan MacTavish Thank you for watching!

[@jllaine]

Awesome Videos Nick! a few thoughts about brittle pipe. Recommended long term exposure for PVC heat is only 110° F, it might have spent a lot of time in a container on the back parking lot at the shipper or the store in the summer sun accelerating the off-gassing of the plasticizers (that smell when you heat form it). If it's bad for a dog or a baby in a car, it's probably bad for low temperature thermoplastic in a shipping container. Second, definitely try to get in touch with the manufacture. The plastic (flex and shock absorbing) property of PVC pipe is what allows it to be used in direct bury applications like waste water lines, sump pump discharge, and irrigation systems. Pipe that shatters like that probably no longer meets code requirements and would shatter with the first frost heave.

[@hanelyp1]

The pipe not meeting code for the intended purpose should get manufacturers attention.

[@silentpaw]

Thanks for this. I don't make bows, but this info is also good for those who make Boffer weapons for LARP use.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+silentpaw Thanks for watching! The more I think about it, I think this test would be good for anyone who uses PVC pipe for pretty much anything, even for plumbing!

[@andrewgoldstein1606]

Thanks for the info. I have to test the pvc pipe I have in storage. I can ask my brother who works with some plastic manufactures and see what they come up with. Take care

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Andrew Goldstein That's awesome, looking forward to what he says! Thank you for watching!

[@andrewgoldstein1606]

My brothers company uses different plastics for wall protection and fabrication of safety equipment in houses. I will see if I can get contact info and maybe price/materials catalogs. More then happy to help.

[@Blakehx]

Great info thanks! I'd like to see a video comparing / testing different kinds of pvc!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Blakehx Thanks for the suggestion!

[@anderwmarcell9503]

thank you for the instruction. Yes some PVC has changed. I used some to frame a greenhouse, some cracked

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Anderw Marcell Thank you for watching!

[@RodSalm]

You could reach out to the @PVCPipeAssoc ‏ via twitter or @JMEaglePipe. Typically, manufacturers don't have a lot of followers (like these ones) and actually respond. In today's world it is so much easier to reach out to people and companies AND get a response. Go for it, Nick, you're the foundation of the hobby. They'd listen. I'm sending them a link to this vid to get the dialogue started.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Rod Salm That's awesome! Thanks for getting the ball rolling! Let's see where this goes.

[@Mixwell1983]

I thought i heard you or someone say use a 3/4" pipe with about a 3mm sidewall.. Home Depot sells Charlotte and i saw 2 different pipes. Once i looked at the specs tab on one of em the inside diameter is .75 and outside was 1.05.. So i took that and converted to MM which came out to 2.87 MM roughly.. I assume this would be the one.. The other decimap conversions and by sheer sight you can tell have a thinner wall. If anyone is confused just look at all the white 3/4" schedule 40 and get the one with the thickest sidewalls i am guessing.. Perhaps another fail safe could be wrapping the bow in duct tape so if it were to fail the shatter effect would be somewhat contained..

[@bigguy2144]

I was just looking at the Home Depot website and wondering the exact same thing. There are two 3/4" white schedule 40 pipes. The one is for potable water and has a thicker wall and says it is rated for 480 psi whereas the other is thinner, is for non-potable water and says nothing about pressure ratings. Both are the same price for a ten foot length oddly enough. I've never made a pvc bow before but I'm thinking of going with the potable water one....

[@dollarbill93]

This is breakdown of the PVC due to UV. Ask for stock from the middle of the pallet. The ones least exposed direct sunlight. And cut the ends off for good measure.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Dollar Bill PVC that is brittle due to UV exposure usually turns yellow and can be identified by eye. I have tested a single pallet before and the pipes that fail are randomly distributed and identical in color to other pipes. I do think this is due to a breakdown of the plastic, some polymer problem, but not due to exposure.

[@AnimeEcstasy333]

Hey, can you link this at the beginning of your bow tutorial? I never would've thought to check this first but it showed up later on my feed. Thanks!

[@mackado]

I think what's happening here is not necessarily a difference in the manufacture of the pipe but in storage. Many plastics degrade in this way from UV light exposure. It's easy to think hardware store supply chains sometimes have skids of this stuff outside for months at a time.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Matt Machado It could be, but the problem is happening to direct-from-manufacturer plumbing, electrical, and furniture grade pipes, and at least one pallet of pipe (I have moments where I go through a lot of pipe). You can usually tell if pipe is UV damaged because it yellows. It also sometimes develops spiderweb-like cracks on the surface. The problem is that pipes without signs of UV damage are acting too brittle. It may be something that is applied to the pipe, perhaps as a cleaner or conditioner. Another viewer brought up chemicals in a construction site making the pipe used brittle. I wouldn't be surprised if something is applied that is making the pipe brittle. The same thing can happen if PVC is cleaned with acetone or PVC solvent. Certain plastic paints can also do the same thing. Thanks for watching!

[@percywest5448]

You are right Matt about a lot of PVC pipe is improperly stored. Also PVC does not necessarily yellow especially during early UV damage.

[@xzqzq]

I used to work at Lowe's in plumbing. We would store PVC outside in sun for months at a time.

[@coriander1356]

Thank you Nick! You even have followers in Germany, i just made a PVC bow following your instructions! That tip from the video is great. Unfortunately we don't have schedule 40 PVC here, i was testing differents brands and ended up ordering from the US.. Looking forward to your next videos!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Coriander 135 Thank you for watching!

[@williwonti]

My bet is they're using fewer conditioning chems to shave pennies.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+williwonti I wouldn't be surprised. Thanks for watching!

[@theultimatehangover7576]

can't tell if pun. profile pic is throwing me off.

[@joshuaragon6676]

williwonti true. Anything to save a quick buck. And one of these days someone will get injured putting in a sprinkler system or something one will snap and fly in their face and these companies will get sued.

[@billyandrew]

@@joshuaragon6676 Can't sue if you use something outwith it's purpose.

[@1959jimbob]

@@BackyardBowyer are there designation markings on the various pipes. Just using the numbers next here to illustrate what I mean so there is no confusion about what I am asking. Let's say that pipe #1has an id number of XRW14398705 and it was brittle. Pipe #2 id number was XRX14398705 and was durable and flexible.

[@ablelawrence5750]

I want to add that: the ones I've made so far have all worked very well and I want to thankyou for that

[@BackyardBowyer]

+ABLe Lawrence Thank you! I don't want to scare you, as even pipes that are brittle (but still have some toughness) will generally fold rather than break. It doesn't hurt to test future bows, but I wouldn't worry about it. Even pipes that completely fail this test can make great, long-lasting bows. It's just that there is less room for error.

[@karvast5726]

@@BackyardBowyer exactly my bow just bent instead of exploding

[@speeds155]

Thank you for generously sharing your knowledge and experiences with your projects, brotha...grateful to have found your YT Channel.

[@vlacula]

Thanks. My first two 1.2m PVC pieces broke at the first hit. You saved my nephews from an accident. Going to look for another PVC provider

[@shmuckling]

I've had both white and gray PVC break on me. That said, if I was all about safety - gray seems to need a little more stress to snap, so I'd go gray. Also, tapering a wider pipe to the thickness I'd normally taper a thinner pipe to seems to give me the same draw weight, which means the same amount of stress is spread along a greater amount of material. I do that sometimes, because winters are cold up here. Your results may vary.

[@shazsuhail3278]

I had an idea on making a pvc fishing rod by splitting the pvc into 60 degree triangles and gluing them together, sorta like a bamboo fly rod. If you can make this it would be a great help for me and others too!

[@TheFiddleGuy]

Despite the negative commenters, I see no reason why a pvc supplier who saw this and liked customer satisfaction wouldn't try to reach out and help you out with maybe making pipe specifically for bow making

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Jacob Kirkpatrick That's my hope. Especially when you look at the impact PVC bows are having all over the world, this could be a huge potential market. What I'm really hoping is that manufacturers in other countries will step up their game and produce consistent and safe pipe for making bows. Because PVC bows have the power to spread archery in places where archery equipment simply is too expensive or hard to get, this opens up a huge opportunity to companies. At the same time, the health of PVC bowyers will be protected and the bows themselves will be safer. And with many people looking back to old traditions, PVC bows are the perfect blend of old and new. They are a bridge, forged in modern times, that spans back through time. That's my favorite style of archery.

[@sjeverett75]

The amount of pipe used for bows vs the amount used for actual plumbing is most likely a fraction of a percent. Its really not cost effective for company manufacturing huges volumes to change their process for a few hundred or even few thousand pipes. You are better off talking with people who sell custom pbc pipe for potato guns. They have clear, rifled and and other specialty pipe. They may be able to point you in the right direction. Also, have you tried CPVC instead of PVC?

[@randylewis3080]

Thank you for the information. This is why I watch your videos.

[@isabelle4039]

Does the brittle quality of the bad pipes affect how the pipe acts when heated and bent to shape? I plan on making a non-functioning bow for cosplay that will not be used for firing arrows.

[@FargoFX]

Wow! That is a HUGE difference between pipes. Great tip!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+FargoFX It is, which is concerning because it was never this bad. Thanks for watching!

[@behrangkhosravi3157]

Dont know if this could be useful to your line of work but I have found working construction that there are a few parameters that could have negative effects on pvc pipes and make them brittle. First is the way they are stored. If they are exposed to sunlight for a long time, they become brittle. Also if they are stored in very cold temperatures, around zero to be more specific. Also if they are stored near other corrosive chemical compounds which could happen on a construction site. And last but not least, age plays a great role too: if the pipes made of high grade material, over time they lose their flexibility and break easily.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Behrang Khosravi I appreceate your insights! Like any other building materials, how it's stored and what it comes in contact with will change it. I think a lot of the problem lies with poor storage. I'm wondering if brittle pipes that do not show signs of UV damage are being damage by some chemical or other agent stored with or near them. I will disagree on one thing, as from my experience so far (admittedly it's only about 8 years of direct experience), PVC pipe does not degrade if stored indoors, out of direct sunlight, and within reasonable temperatures. If you treat a PVC like a wood bow, it doesn't seem to change over time. If a wood or fiberglass bow we're stored like how most people store PVC pipes, they would not hold together very well either. I have tested this before, but I may do a well documented test over a year or two. Thanks for watching!

[@behrangkhosravi3157]

BackyardBowyer yeah of course. If they are stored properly age wouldnt have much effect. The age problem only comes in when they are exposed to other parameters too as you said. We have also experienced a problem with some companies trying to make more money by shaving off quality material from their PVC products. I dont know if that could also be the case in your neck of the woods. Anyways keep making fun videos. Ive been watching your work for some times now.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Behrang Khosravi Thank you for the support! I've noticed that JM Eagle is one of the worst coner-cutters. Some of their pipes actually leave a white chalky residue when scraped. I've also seen pipes with grit of some sort embedded and incorporated into the pipe itself. They are always getting in trouble for not meeting their own specs.

[@KaletheQuick]

Maybe you can contact one of the chemistry youtubers (Nile Red, NurdRage, CodysLab), and see if you can find a way to see what the pipes are actually made of.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+KaletheQuick That would be cool! thanks for the suggestion!

[@TheDesertwalker]

This is an excellent suggestion. Was this done? Thanks.

[@NPCSN]

Great idea!

[@ASAF53612]

@tan j maz can i make a bow with hidraulic pvc? o what kind of pvc do you recomend to make a bow

[@racingrivals8934]

They're made of polviynl chloride i think its the curing what makes it brittle question would heating them up stop them from being brittle

[@markhendley5559]

ive been watching your channel for ages thanks for always making new and useful content

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Mark Hendley Thank you for the support!

[@DeadBoyHK1]

I used to work at a manufacturer that made things from plastic... the brittleness is probably coming from these companies using cheaper materials to save money. Many companies will do that, so don’t be surprised if it continues.

[@guerrero8682]

One of my bows shattered I should have tried the hamer test before hand. Thanks for the advise Nicholas !

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Capi Guerrero I'm sorry too hear that. What type of bow was it, if you don't mind me asking? Thank you for watching!

[@BrunoMarcondesMusico]

Hey, Nick! I love your work, man! Keep it up! Since you~re always asking for suggestions for new "things" to build, here's mine: there's nothing on youtube or anywhere else about making a solid fiberglass bow. they're pretty popular and easily available on the mainstream market, however, no tutorials or instructions whatsoever out there on how they're made! There might not even be a way to make them diy, but if there's one, you're the man to share it with us! Peace!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Bruno Marcondes Thanks for the suggestion! That would be cool. I have seen solid fiberglass limbs made by laying unidirectional fiberglass fibers with resin in a mold. I don't think making a whole bow would be any harder, you just need a bigger form, hot box, and a longer working resin.

[@BrunoMarcondesMusico]

yeah, you're right. I've seen people make the limbs separetely and then attach them to wooden risers. Question is, do you think you might be testing that out anytime soon? I hope you do, man! That'd be awesome!

[@xH2S8x]

I just recently found your channel and subscribed. Great stuff! Still working up the courage to try making a pvc bow. You make it look easy.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+xH2S8x Thank you for watching! If you are in the fence about it, try something simple like this bow so you can get a better idea of whether you like making bows or not. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJ7bn2CkhbObj5o

[@AMarshmallowPie]

Very helpful content. I didn't have a hammer at the time of making mine, but it is Charlotte piping, but has black letters, and was made in 2017, according to the date on the pipe. I swung it as hard as I could and hit concrete with it, and I did so for about 6 minutes, and it didn't even smoosh or crack. It just wobbled in my hand, and so I made the bow. I then got a smaller piece that I had cut off of it to make the bow, and hammered it, and it had the same result. Maybe the lettering is indicative of the quality difference/functionality? I don't know. Anyhoo, thanks for the heads up and info.

[@lorenray9479]

I saw broken pvc at the store. I saw bent pvc at another store. Good to be observant!

[@lvegasr]

BackyardBowyer have you tried gray PVC, I believe the gray pvc is uv protected.

[@lionintu]

Schedule40

[@lpburke86]

@@lionintu the grey PVC water pipe is schedule 80. Grey PVC electrical conduit is schedule 40

[@keithrodriguez6924]

Love the more frequent uploads! Awesome videos!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Keith Rodriguez Awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@bretlemieux4533]

Hey Nick have you tried making your own fiberglass bow I'd like to see you try to make one yourself

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Bret Lemieux I have! It has been a while, but I got an old bow form while at a primitive skills gathering, so I may be doing one once I get everything set up.

[@bretlemieux4533]

BackyardBowyer I look forward to seeing that vid. I've been watching your videos for years an have made a few bows for my daughter an myself. Thank you for the insperation.

[@dravenkill]

seconded. would like to see fiberglass bow making from Nick too!!

[@ablelawrence5750]

Well good to know now.... I made 4 pvc cross bows since watching your instructional video. Gave one to my bro.....

[@Luke-jo2xi]

This guy is the best youtuber out there

[@BackyardBowyer]

+LittleBrownPirate Thank you for the kind words!

[@willybee3056]

BackyardBowyer Thanks for the good work. .. You are a true scientist ,,, do you think that their maybe a heat treatment that may fix the hardness problem? But without testing I wouldn't know. And it may make it harder. Anywho,, just a thought,, And keep up the good work. .. tanx

[@AMarshmallowPie]

He's definitely at the top of my list. I have a few that tie with him, but maybe that'll change hahahaha I just started watching a few days ago, and he's already up there.

[@viniciussbenz4301]

Right on time, I was gathering stuff to make one 5min ago

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Darth Vin That's awesome timing! Thanks for watching!

[@andyd.1793]

Great advice, Nick, thanks👍

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Andy D. Thanks for watching!

[@percywest5448]

Also on occasion any Brand of PVC can have a hard surface run during manufacture and it is not obvious to the eye. That is why when gluing up pipe it is recommended and is also code to prime the pipe not just clean it. The primer [purple] chemically penetrates and softens the harden pipe for a good bond. Your hammer test is great idea.

[@davidgrantham3287]

The heating process might actually make it becoming less brittle. Polyvinylchloride when heated releases some chloride. The chlois what makes it more brittle

[@56thSPSk970]

Does the brittleness come from out side storage uv rays?. Try electrical conduit the gray color is uv resistant.

[@Ganuesthai]

They have probably added more calcium carbonate. This is used to lower the cost per weight and also to change some impact specs. Most plumbing and electric PVC tube makers use this component. If they add too much, that can be one of the effects. For some uses that brittleness is not important, but for other uses it can be a serious problem. They might also have aded small ammounts of plastifiers, what have the efect of making the product brittle when added under certain threshold. But I don't think this kind of tubing needs any plastifiers at all, I'd say it's a rigid formula. If it were a semi-rigid formula indeed, then a lack of enough plastifier could be the problem. There are some aditives too (similar to rubber or polyurethane) used to get better impact resistance, but they are often too expensive and PVC tube makers tend not to use them, unles they are making some special and more expensive products. Also, the temperature at what you make the test can be important. The PVC tends to become brittle when the temperature is lower. You can make the same test with two proves made form the same tube, one kept at your refrigerator and the other one kept under the sun for some minutes. You should find significant more brittleness in the colder one. There are different impact resistance needs for different aplications, so probably you will always be able to find the right product for your needs. You might get the impact specifications at the maker website, or just asking them by email. If they have a good customer service, they should be able to inform you about it all. You might find something here: www.charlottepipe.com/price_lists_sp.aspx www.charlottepipe.com/flowguard_gold.aspx

[@Splat-ig3hc]

When I made your 40lb no heat bow, I was a little afraid of shattering. (having seen it happen up close) So I wrapped the finished bow in a couple layers of electrical tape, which would hopefully reduce any fragmentation. It didn't really hurt the power of the bow, though it could be I just got a good pipe for that one, as I've drawn it back much further than it was ever intended for. Thanks for the warning about the quality of the pipe, I usually don't check. :/

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Splat 1941 Thanks for watching! Tape doesn't really affect the performance on that one. It may not be a very fast bow, but it's pretty solid.

[@billyeast6819]

Great videos Nic!. Hello. I have a question: What if you capped a pvc bow that was 4/5ths filled with water? Would the bow with the water be more powerful as water can not be compressed?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Billy East I've tried something similar to this. Adding water adds a lot of weight and adds more strain to the center of the handle. It's a little different with a tapered bow, but almost impossible to get a good seal. There really isn't anything I've tried so far to fill pipes with that improves performance. Pretty much everything either just makes the bow more sluggish or less forgiving to shoot. You do sometimes get lower handshock, but this can be done by just reinforcing the handle, and works much better than filling the limbs. Hope this helps!

[@Jesses001]

I am in the rubber production industry. The problem is most such companies, mine included, have found a way to cut costs. We are using chemicals that are out of specifications. We are trying to mix bad material with good material, and running it though the mills longer to try and fix the out of specification material. We are also using "work away" where we mix in failed materials to get rid of it, hopefully in small enough amounts that it still creates an acceptable product. As you might imagine, this process is creating somewhat uneven material conditions. In fact, we once got carbon black from the bottom of the ocean. It was salvaged from a sunken ship, dried out, and then thrown in and mixed up. It was about a 50% fail rate but it was still less expensive then normal do to the lower material costs.

[@xzqzq]

Tks for the info.

[@mrsaturdaynightspecial3055]

Thank you for your video.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Mr Saturday Night Special Thank you for watching!

[@PetesCreativeRecycling]

I love your channel! It's been consistently good for years. Build suggestion: You've made bows, arrows, string, quivers, as well as many things with flint napping and forging. Have you ever considered making a metal bow?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Pete's Creative Recycling Thanks for watching! That's an awesome idea! I have not made one yet. I got to look at an old steel bow last year, thought it was brilliantly made. And brittle pipes do not get less brittle after heating and cooling. Brittle pipe means there's a problem in the plastic, heating and cooling most pipe won't change that.

[@EdMorleyTube]

have you tried pre heating the pipe before the hammer test? im thinking it might release internal stresses.

[@blueroseyt]

Thanks for making this vid. I have made several different project over the year with PVC pipe. I have seen this brittleness in old pvc that has been out in the weather for a long time. I admit to being shocked at the news of new pipe being this brittle. Charlotte pvc pipe has been my go to in the past. Years ago i made a few PVC air cannons and used up to 120psi in those air canons. this brittleness is dangerous in other hobbies using using pvc. It is disappointing that the product has gone downhill like this. Have you found this brittleness in sch 80 pipe or plastic (grey) electrical pvc also? I have enjoyed all your vids I have seen and learned something from each one. Thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely for others to learn from and build on. Keep the vids coming. Patrick.

[@robotman7945]

thanks for this vid nick..guess iwill not make pvc bow for now..because idont have that much money to buy pvc pipe if the one ibought failed on the test..iwont risk buying new pvc pipe to test again.peace out..thankyou

[@gaelcross]

I had a 1m PVC pipe at home that I used to make your hammer test, it was perfect. So yesterday I bought a 2m PVC pipe with the exact same reference and made a bow following your instructions. But it suddenly broke, shattering pieces nearly on my face, even though the PVC was quite flexible and resistant. Do you think it's because of the heating process ? Can it break if you heat too much or not enough before bending the pipe ? I'll wait for your answers before trying again.

[@Ming1975]

Safety note is very appreciated.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+MingTuck Chung Thank you for watching!

[@allentremper8243]

Don't make excuses for shoddy products, it's all about money and they don't care if it fails in 5 years, they don't think we'll be here in 5 years. I love your videos and the way you can teach. You seem very sincere and down to earth. I am a house framer and have noticed that nothing is built to last anymore. It was bad in the 90s, you should see the styrofoam houses that are being built and sold. They look great, but you can back a truck up to the back of any new home, use nothing more than a box cutter to cut thru the vinyl siding and the styrofoam blue board that has replaced plywood, by cutting between the studs, you bypass all the security systems in the world and have a whole big enough to empty any new home quickly. I am not saying this because I think people will, but they can,and the home owners don't know, they think they are getting something that will keep them safe and last. It's strange to see how we've just gone downhill as a nation because our so called leaders are just corporate stooges, taking advantage of anyone, on everything. I'm sorry for ranting on your site, but it is something that we should ask ourselves, why are we buying sub par materials or rather when did sub par become"normal" and why are we still buying from companies that don't make things to last? Thanks for the video, I have watched a bunch of your stuff, really cool!!!

[@caswallonandflur692]

This is why I like the electric tape wrap

[@LadybugAdventures]

Yeah. I've had 2 bows fail on me with shattered snap. My grey conduit pvc bows have not had the same problem but you do sacrifice speed.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Ladybug Adventures That is true. The problem with conduit, from my experience, is that it is more likely to deform on hot days as well. That said, I've found conduit that fails the hammer test, usually JM Eagle. The beauty of testing the pipes is that you can find tough pipes without sacrificing speed or temperature stability. Thanks for watching!

[@brandoncogdill9079]

Make sure the pipes you're using is schedule 80 and not 40 or 40 thin wall

[@YeOldeTowneCryer]

About six years ago a carpenter I befriended told me he didn't like pvc pipe because you had to be really careful not to bump it when remodeling or it would break. So there was a problem showing up way back then. I don't know if the pipe had been in use for decades but that was his observation. Any work he did would get copper pipe.

[@lawrymccarthy3292]

Pure PVC is very brittle, it's toughness comes from the addition of plasticizers. To be used for plumbing the pipes have to pass some ASTM mechanical tests which should include burst resistance at a range of temperatures. I would imagine in some places in the USA this would include frozen water pipes. It would be interesting to see if the brittle pipe could handle water freezing. If it bursts (and I think it would) it is something to report to the manufacturers. It would be interesting to leave some of the brittle pipe soaking in yinyl car seat restorer/treatment (puts the plastizer back), I guess though you would have to keep it soaking for months to make a difference. Anyway USA bowyers are luckier than us in Australia, we can only get thin walled low pressure PVC tube and about 5 times the price of the US.

[@xzqzq]

Interesting - soaking pipe in vinyl restore fluid. Anyone tried this ?

[@arrongilmore3164]

Bundle bows

[@alphasigmasezon8597]

Great advice, Nick, thanks

[@lrstaf6]

I personally have not worked with PVC, but have worked with other plastics in the extrusion process. I believe that PVC pipe is extruded. Extruded plastics characteristics change quite a bit with just a few degrees of temperature change in the extrusion process. Also the screw design in the extruder or back pressure in the extruder can change the characteristics of the finished product. Therefore; if just one of these factors has changed slightly in the extrusion process, the finished product. I personally believe that the extrusion temperature, back pressure or pipe die temperature has probably lowered just a little. Any of these could cause the final extrusion temperature to be just a few degrees lower and make the finished product a little harder and more brittle. I don't know if there's any way to anneal the finished pipe of not, that's what they do with metal to make it less brittle and tougher. You might take a piece that has shattered in the hammer test, try heating it till it starts to getting soft then letting it slow cool. after it has cooled to room temperature, give it another hammer test as an experiment to see if it toughens it. Also, you could take a piece of PVC pipe that failed the hammer test and heat and form it then after it's cooled try the hammer test on it again to see if the forming process anneals the pipe. It just may you never know unless you try. Another thought is to try the hammer test on a piece of PVC pipe at room temperature and at winter temperatures outside. It may be that PVC pipe gets more brittle at low temperatures. Other materials do become more brittle at low temperatures.

[@huyked]

Great and informative video, Nick. Thank you!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+huyked Thank you for watching!

[@johnnash9072]

Charlotte date codes their pipe. Check date codes so you have an idea of how long it has sat exposed to light. Schedule 40 pipe becomes brittle over time and that process is increased with uv exposure

[@ven6880]

Pvc bows are fun to make and cool to shoot for beginners who cant afford a bow.but its not something u can depend on taking it with u in the woods .the weather effects it no matter what.i made pvc bows for many years .they will break if u are a serious archer.other then that.good for backyard shooting.they are good for fun.

[@djc4446]

Hey Nic do You think it may be possible to treat existing brittle pvc by some sort of simple chemical or tempering type process to cause it to obtain the desired quailities? Maybe some of the manufacturers could shed some light on this issue.

[@SpikeBachman]

Thanks brother! I won't take it for granted that all pipe I get is equal.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Spike Bachman Thank you for watching!

[@darrendelmonaco2249]

one is PL and the other is PW ,there different grades of pipe one is pressure the other PL Abbreviation for plastic. Polyester. Type of polymer that is usually produced in the forms of thermosetting resin

[@TrikeRoadPoet]

Great safety video, thanks for the timely heads up!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+TrikeRoadPoet Thanks for watching!

[@GRDray]

Great video. Would there be the same worry with the long bow made with the orange fiberglass insides.? Thanks for sharing.

[@gringoanon4550]

I guess the solvents evaporate off the pipe after a few years, since you paint them it should lock the solvents in permanently?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+gringo anon It might be, but I haven't found age to make a pipe more brittle if it's stored indoors in a dark place. Though that may be part of why paint (and tape) works so well. I'd like to test and see if PVC tape may be able to make a pipe less brittle over time, as it has more plasticizers and softeners than PVC pipe. I have no idea if it will work, but it's worth testing. Thanks for watching!

[@gringoanon4550]

Yes that might work, like you said the UV will be the biggest problem. Their is a lot of UV in strip lighting, inside stores. Any way love your work keep it up.

[@Calligraphytheskeleton]

Another good one is if you have enough grip strength to get ones that have a bit of get when you squish it for its wall thickness or slightly more flexibility unheated is probably going to be more impact resistant

[@quatre619]

thankyou bow-sama

[@bigguy2144]

I haven't read all of the comments here to see if anyone had mentioned this but I did make an observation while shopping pvc pipe online at Home Depot's website. I noticed that there were 2 different 3/4" white schedule 40 pipes so I hit the compare feature and found that one is for potable water, is rated to 480 psi and is a little thicker than the other that is for non-potable water and does not have a pressure rating. I am no expert in plumbing materials and do not make that claim. This was just a simple observation. I'm attaching the link. The charlotte pipe is the non-potable pipe in this comparison. Another interesting note is that it comes with a 5 year warranty. I have no idea if that covers this kind of use or not. www.homedepot.com/p/compare/?errorURL=ProductAttributeErrorView&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&prodComp_0=202280935&prodComp_1=100348472&plpUrl=%2Fb%2FPlumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Pipe-PVC-Pipe%2F3-4%2522%2FSchedule-40%2FN-5yc1vZ1z18i41Z1z1b2v4Z1z1b3uq%3FNCNI-5%26experienceName%3Ddefault&N=5yc1vZ1z18i41Z1z1b2v4Z1z1b3uq

[@robertpendergast2620]

Sorry about the change in pvc pip. BTW, you are looking good. (I have not been looking at bow videos for a while).

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Robert pendergast Thank you for watching!

[@rstevewarmorycom]

Would there be any way to anneal the brittility out of them by a heat process to relieve stresses that may be caused by too rapid drawing and cooling at the factory? Have you tried heating these in a box with a heat gun till they are fully warm enough to bend, and then just not bending them, but instead leaving them sit at that temperature a while to relax the stresses in them? Then slowly cool them and try the hammer test on them again afterwards, this might cure your problem!!

[@BackyardBowyer]

+rstevewarmorycom I have done this, and PVC does not work that way. Unlike metals which have a crystal lattice that can be rearranged with heat, the only way to make PVC less brittle is to re-mix and re-extrude the pipe. Heating the pipe will make it softer while it's hot but it will be just as brittle once it cools. If anything, heating the pipe can cause it become more brittle if overdone. Brittle PVC is not a stress problem, it's a polymer problem. If a pipe takes some effort to crack, it's probably fine to use. But the difference between being able to almost flatten the pipe with a hammer vs it exploding with a single strike is very big.

[@rstevewarmorycom]

Well, it was just a thought.

[@walterwaller9784]

Could a person heat it to soften it and reduce the brittleness?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Walter Waller Heating the pipe will only reduce the brittleness until it cools back down. Overheating can actually degrade the plastic and make it more brittle once it cools. Thank you for watching! I hope this helps!

[@danoqamyasharahla6544]

@@BackyardBowyer I also believe that tapering PVC gives it longevity and reduces the chance of the PVC exploding.

[@jaxv94]

I have pvc pipes lying around from previous jobs we did at work, the older pvc's seem to pass this test while the newer ones shatter.... darn

[@jaxv94]

I'm down to my last good pvc pipe lol

[@MrCh0o]

@@jaxv94 Since you have your hands on these crappy pipes, could you tell if one's brittle or not by let's say tapping on it? I assume the brittle ones may also be slightly harder and make a different sound. Asking cuz you can't really whack a tube with a hammer at the depo, heh

[@jaxv94]

@@MrCh0o I can only say the good pvc have a bounce to it you could say it has a lower pitch, The newer pvc are pretty fragile, stiffer with a higher pitch. I'd say go with the gray pvc pipe the electricians use.

[@MrCh0o]

@@jaxv94 I see, thanks for the info. The grey pipes that are sold locally all have low wall thickness for some reason, I don't think these are quite usable for a bow. Looks like a little trial and error is inevitable :)

[@sebastiendupuis4547]

Stick with electrical conduit, a bit harder to work but more resistant, its weather resistant, UV resistant, it can be used under or above ground... It's really a good material even if you get a little bit less power, all my bows are made with electrical conduit and they all work great :) even after like 3 years for some of em, and some of them are for larps so they've been used quite a lot and took a lot of beatings, like beeing stepped on, beeing blank fired by newbies( xd ), beeing hit on trees and scratched a lot so. To me its a definite yes :)

[@CaseyHillstrom]

Hey man I love your content. I'm concerned that maybe your test for pvc is not robust enough. 1. What if only part of the pipe is brittle. Can you really trust that one section represents the strength of the entire pipe? 2. Have you tried heating the pipe first in order to strengthen it? 3. Perhaps 'ripping' another pipe in longways at the same length of your bow pipe and then using that purple bonding solution to 'stick it' to your bow pipe would reinforce and strengthen it.

[@WindyLion]

According to the Madison Group, "The impact strength is 4x less at -10oC than at 20oC - a temperature range that is easily experienced in many regions of the US." Do you suppose that the temperature at which you conduct your tests have been changing?

[@jhjhotel]

Hey great video! What would your verdict be on JM Eagle pipes, in general?

[@BackyardBowyer]

Judah Harrigan I usually avoid JM Eagle these days. They used to be hit or miss, now it's mostly just miss. They work fine as pipes, but very brittle when flexed and sometimes you can see the grit from the filler material they use.

[@jhjhotel]

@@BackyardBowyer Good to know! Appreciate the response. Youre a legendary bowyer.

[@RAYMONDCASILLAS]

This seems to be, obviousy, a production quality issue. Perharps their not heated all the way through just until it holds enough. Have you tried the hammer test after heating the tube?

[@antoniolim762]

Besides the hammer test...is there another way to test if the PVC has become brittle (like some kind of bend or pinch/poke that may indicate brittleness)...and wouldn't PVC kinda turn brittle to an extent when you heat bend it (kinda like tempering steel to give it hardness) then let it cool down (the quench)??? What thickness (and brand/kind) of PVC makes for good DIY Bows or Slingshots/Slingbows? TYVM for the Vids and PSAs (:D)!!!

[@TheSquizzlet]

Would it be possible to heat treat the PVC to restore flexibility and resilience? If you were to make a reflective heating cradle, heat-gun the whole length of pipe until it's spaghetti floppy, then let it air cool to normal temperature again that may normalize the material the same way normalizing metal works?

[@billyeast6819]

Nick, Great Video! What about ABS pipe? Have you ever tried making a limb from flat ABS sheet material?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Billy East I have not tried sheet ABS as I've only been able to find low density sheets and a very brittle sheet form. I'm still looking. Thanks for watching!

[@KiltedMusician]

You could use a flexible resin that you could pour into the pipe and roll it around to coat the inside but not fill it up, just get a coating on it and then pour the rest back out. That way it would act like a windshield if it broke. Silicone cut with mineral spirits could work too.

[@VinlandAlchemist]

Excellent, brilliant post - thanks, bro'! ^_^

[@ericklopes4046]

I made a Penobscot PVC bow with Aquaterm pipe (No sch 40 in Brazil) and the backbow just broke when I strung it to the main bow. It didn't break into many pieces thought, just broke into two pieces. Acquatherm is the best PVP pipe I can get over here. The problem is, as it is made to be heat resistent, it sucks to tape with the heat gun. It burns easily and takes a long time to soften. Edit: It's CPVC actually.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Erick Lopes That can be a problem. What is the wall thickness? Thicker pipes tend to break (clean break) while thinner pipes tend to fold if they break. Thank you for sharing! I need to figure out how to get pipes from different countries to test.

[@JesterTester]

Just wondering, a bow made from good PVC would turn brittle after a while itself. Wouldn't it? Especially if stored in less than ideal conditions.

[@cafiristanemperor]

Hello, nice test! One question, though? After doing the hammer test, do we need to cut how many inches from the edge that were hammered on? I assume the tip cannot be used, right? Cheers from Brazil!

[@Naomi_Boyd]

Have you tried annealing the pipes to see if that makes any difference one way or the other?

[@BackyardBowyer]

+Richy Rich Yes, I have tried that as well as other methods of fixing brittle pipe. The problem is that PVC is not like a metal that has a crystal lattice that can be rearranged with controlled heating and cooling. If PVC pipe is brittle it's a polymer problem that can only really be fixed (within reason) by re-mixing and re-extruding the plastic into a new pipe. Stable polymers tend to only degrade, plastic that gets tougher when heating should be avoided as they are often unstable and are known to be carcinogenic. This can be a problem in countries with lax safety standards for pipe. Thanks for watching!

[@Naomi_Boyd]

Good info, thanks for the reply. =)

[@BladeforgerKLX]

I had the same question that Richy Rich had... and you've apparently tried heating it up already. So, if there's no apparent fix once it has become brittle, the question obviously becomes how to select it (or reject it) at the store. As someone above already said, it could perhaps be the big box stores (or distributors) storing it in the sunlight before moving it inside to the shelves. If that is the case, we might be able to find some stores or sources that do NOT store their PVC in the sunlight. I don't know. Anyway, thanks VERY MUCH for this particular video because it's definite food for thought. And thanks for all of the bow-making videos, too.

[@BackyardBowyer]

+BladeforgerKLX UV damaged pipes are pretty easy to spot. If a pipe looks like it's more chalky, especially if you can scrape it with your fingernail, don't use it. If a pipe looks yellow compared to others, avoid it as well. If it has small, spiderweb looking cracks on it's surface, don't use it. Also avoid pipes with deep gashes or scrapes. I've also had this problem with direct-from-manufacturer pipe. My hope was that furniture grade, while more expensive, would be a surefire choice. It's still really good, but considering one bad stick of furniture grade costs as much as 6 or more plumbing pipes, it's enough to lose confidence. So for now the best thing is to test, keeping in mind that what I showed here are extremes. You don't need a pipe as tough as the second while you should definitely avoid the first. If the pipe can handle a few good whacks but still ends up cracking, I would still feel confident in using it. Thanks for watching!