Do Rock Dust and Biochar Increase nutrients including trace elements in Garden Soil?

Does Rock Dust or Biochar change the pH of soil?
Real Percent Difference Analysis RPD for comparing results.
Does Biochar need to be Charged with active compost before application?
Is there a difference in the essential and beneficial elements pre and post season.
Is there a chance in the micro nutrients over the course of a season?
Does Biochar improve the retention of micro nutrients?
Does Rock Dust improve the retention of micro nutrients?
Lab Results
Pre Season 2015 Results:
www.albertaurba...
Post Season 2015 Results:
www.albertaurba...
Biochar and Rock Dust Raw Data Results:
www.albertaurba...
2014 Post Season Results:
www.albertaurba...
This is part Two of Three in this year’s Home Garden Field Trials Results videos putting charged Biochar and Rock Dust to the test. Today I am going to look at the soil results to see if they support the main claim of each product that through different mechanisms Rock Dust and Biochar increase the nutrient content in the soil.
The trials were set up so the only difference between the beds was the application of Rock Dust in one bed and charged Biochar in another with the third having no products added so it can act as a control. By having the only difference between the beds being the product any differences can be attributed to the product when compared against the control.
If you would like a more detailed description of how we set up the trials I highly recommend watching Part 1 of the 2015 results as it gives more context to the results I will present today. [1]
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[@OneYardRevolution]

Great information, Stephen! Thank you for all your time and work in sharing this data. Frankly, I wasn't surprised by the results, but I was very intrigued by the point you made about rock dust not having nutrients in high enough concentration to have a significant impact on nutrient levels in the soil, even when applied well above the recommended application rate. Very interesting!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+OneYardRevolution | Frugal & Sustainable Organic Gardening I am glad you enjoyed the clip my friend! Once I dug in and realized the dilution factor was too much the results really made sense. a result of 1,000 ppm is 0.1% multiply that by the 1.6 and you get 0.00016. thats a small fraction that just is not going to be relevant when home garden soil has much higher concentrations.

[@SQWIB]

Love your videos. I would love a video of Bio char as a soil conditioner. Even if it has 0 benefits of adding nutrients or trace elements, it is still great soil conditioner, simply for the fact that it adds Tilth and increases water retention and is extremely light in comparison to other media. I have noticed in my beds that it helps reduce compaction as well. For a mechanical amendment it is hard to beat. I just wanted folks to know that before they write off Bio-Char altogether. I have been using it for a few years now and I do charge it, so it doesn't pull nutrients from the existing soil. Would also like to see a video on microbe colonization variances and water retention ability between different inert substrates like Vermiculite, Perlite and Growstones. I used Growstones (recycled glass) in my hydroponics and once I stopped the hydro and went all soil, I dumped them in the raised beds and they really like to hold the water. Purely a Mechanical amendment but has helped my gardens quite a bit. Hope my verbiage makes sense.

[@truegrit8280]

I also watched growing your greens,, He and his friend had a special on rock dust. So I bought some and used it this year but the small garden was just so so .This year I put a bunch of leaves on just before winter and collected leaves around the neighborhood . We have an understanding amongst the city to put the leaves in trashbags for the gardeners who which to use them for their garden.It was great because I picked up about 30 big bags and some were even shredded. I'm going to save some with my grass clippings for my composer for the spring .THANK S FOR YOUR GREAT VIDEO S ..

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Richard Bushy I am glad you find value in the videos I put together. Leaves are a wonderful resource I have a number of friends whom collect them for me ;)

[@TheAbledGardener]

I have found that my garden beds filled with nothing more then my compost was enough to grow an abundance of vegetables. I had tried various amendments in some of my beds, but they showed no significance over the untreated beds. I will still use my worm towers for making the beds rich with castings and will continue my use of Humic/Fulvic acid for seed germination, new seedlings and transplants. Great video Stephan and a lot of work!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

You are right compost is king ! Work castings really help too!

[@BackToBasics001]

Excellent Video. I've been learning thru trial and error that supplementing does not necessarily mean better yields, and common place composting etc is better. These lab results help confirm what my eyes see in the garden. Really enjoy your posts.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+BackTo Basics I love the title of your profile ;) it would seem the scene that is out there supports your title ! I am glad your experimenting my friend! it is very valuable to do such things!

[@DonnaldaSmolens]

thank you so much for your meticulous study of these two products. I am so glad you did this. My garden soil was very poor to start with and I had been mixing it 50/50 with old goat manure from the goat pens. I knew it was old and not composted but knew it would add organic matter to the slightly salty sandy native soil. I have had mixed results with this and knew something was missing. I have tried various products but mostly making my own compost seemed to work the best. Since the desert provides few opportunities for leaves, I used date palm fronds for mulch. Now I know I should just keep doing these things and not worry about buying expensive products to improve my soil. I know that over time my garden will be outstanding. thanks.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

There are plenty of free resources you can use in your garden compost. I would recommend wood chips if you can get them ! Date palms are a great start !

[@DonnaldaSmolens]

I invested in a chipper/shredder last year and have HUGE compost piles cooking away.

[@RobsAquaponics]

Looking forward to the plant analysis clip. Cheers Stephen.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you my friend ! The samples are in and it's time to wait :)

[@JeremyConnor]

Very interesting as always, thanks again for bringing science and research and evidence back into this area, I greatly appreciate it!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

It is my pleasure. What I hope can be done is people can use the results to make decisions and spend more effective time in the garden while increasing the enjoyment time !

[@Tommyr]

Fantastic! I KNEW that "Green grower" was full of it. Great job Stephen! I have always said that adding compost is the most important thing you can do for your garden. It also helps to keep PH neutral, which is very important for nutrient uptake.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Tommyr As i posted this video after the hours and hours of work it took to put together I thought of you Tommy ;) Compost seems to be supported by the evidence today and strongly at that :)

[@Cryptlord9999]

+Tommyr Some of the most agriculturally productive and useful lands are areas that formerly held glaciers (thousands of years ago), the reason being is because of the "rock dust" created when the glaciers moved across the landscape. This mineralized the soil. Such great soil scientists as Julius Hensel and Sampson Morgan, whose findings where later replicated by Dr. Charles Northern and Albert Savage in North America, used soil remineralization and regeneration techniques. They employed ground stone dust or sea vegetation and green (plant) compost, and the periodic aeration of plant or tree roots through cultivation. The results were indeed phenomenal. Marketed spinach grown on ordinary soil contained 600-1600 parts per billion of iodine, whereas spinach grown on re-mineralized soil contained as high as 640, 000 parts per billion. Testing revealed that various vegetables grown Savages "mineral garden" possessed as much as 400% more iron and other minerals than crops grown by standard methods. Current day results are equally astounding. In the mid 1990's Robert Bruck at North Carolina State University studied the effects of remineralization on a severely declining forest in the Appalachian mountains. One year after an application of 175 lbs of rock dust/acre, the tissue levels of calcium and magnesium in both Red Spruce and Fraser Fir were shown to be enhanced from 12 to 29%, and soil levels of exchangeable calcium and magnesium had increase an average of 14%. Additionally the remineralized plots had 39% fewer dead trees then the non treated plots. The rock dust (Planter II) used in this experiment contained 5% calcium, 5% sulfur, 0.5% magnesium plus minute percentages of 37 trace elements with virtually no nitrogen, phosphorus or potassium. Those are impressive results for such a light application of a product with such low nutrient content. More importantly, according to conventional wisdom most of the trace elements supposedly have no nutrient value for plants." -Working with Nature, Shifting Paradigms by Heide Hermary.

[@Tommyr]

Cryptlord9999 Meh.

[@jaydielee]

Good garden soil does not need rock dust or biochar, that is the conclusion I got after watching your video. I'm not yet ruling out that poor soil will benefit with rock dust and biochar.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+jaydie lee it took a long time to get to that but yes thats the take away with the evidence I have. I hope to take a look at a poor soil trial specifically to see what biochar does. Rock dust simply is diluted too much to be meaningful.

[@kimkauffman3438]

Thank you for all the information you provide. I just geared up my gardening efforts this year and rock dust was one addition. It did not seem to do anything spectacular. Your testing have proven my thoughts. Keep up the awesome videos.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I will keep working so we can all enjoy our gardens more :)

[@MichelVaillancourt]

Fascinating results. I do appreciate the rigor that you put into your testing and the detail you put into your videos. For folks who are proponents of "Do nothing / Do Little" gardening, this sort of testing is important, because it allows us to cut out ineffective parts of our spring process, such as making and shaking biochar.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Michel Vaillancourt That is one of the reasons I have enjoyed this series so much. I can put the effort in to present the evidence but ultimately as you and One Yard Revolution have said it helps others make decisions on practices products and methods allowing for more time to simply enjoy the garden!

[@gardensandmore1614]

+Michel Vaillancourt I indeed ditto your comments. Not only informative, but entertaining too. Gives a person plenty to think about. I really like the way he presents his conclusions and the evidence he is clearly taking seriously and presenting in a very useful manner.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you my friend! I really feel passionate about the fact that this work needs to be done so that anyone whom wants to can learn from it and help improve their own gardens

[@10yearvet]

Interesting, I appreciate seeing the test results. I do tend to agree with a comment below that benefits of rock dust would probably be most noticeable after several seasons. However I have a theory of my own that good soil likely would not benefit much if at all. A long term test on poor soil would be more conclusive in my opinion. Speaking for myself I've found that good compost has been the best soil amendment in my conditions. The last few years I've only had to add a bit of extra magnesium and calcium for specific purposes. The primary reason I have been interested in biochar was the moisture retention. I found that it did help.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+The Self Sufficient Life As I mentioned earlier I wanted to test these products in great soil as the marketing targets gardeners like myself. I think your observations may be the most supported that a good compost does most of what you need. the effects of rock dust may take longer however at the application rate that is well above the recommendation its just not adding a significant enough amount to be statistically relevant again compared to a compost based garden soil that already has so much. biochar may take longer and I think in a poor soil trial it may have the chance to shine. I am looking into adding one to my trials next year.

[@RainbowGardens]

Excellent information Stephen!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Rainbow Gardens I am glad you liked it Donna!

[@Mrdesidownunder]

Thanks for detail analyses. I enjoyed the video. For the first time in many years I made some compost of my grass garden clippings and had in only one pot where I planted a Tomato plant and the difference is obvious. The tomato plant is already bearing fruit and it is still spring here in Melbourne, Australia. Only it is a chore to turn the compost heap every so often..

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Mrdesidownunder Usually I only turn my compost pile once a year and leave it at that ;) not need to spend a lot of time if you have mixed brown and green materials together. My brother lives in Melborne and I am amazed how lush it is there already for you guys!! I envy you today especially as I get a whole lot of snow and a 20 minute drive to work takes 2 hours ;)

[@knhc1]

I can hardly wait until you are able to publish those results......good job😆

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you! I look forward to getting the results.

[@Arkryal]

Good video. I would suggest that if the soil is depleted of one nutrient contained in rock-dust, it might correct the deficiency (assuming the minerals are in the correct form for the plants to use). It may have uses in the repair of damaged soils, but likely does nothing to improve average garden soil. As for char, there's a lot of hype around the microbial benefits. Even if true, it doesn't mean there will be significant results. It's most useful function is chelation. If you were planting in sand, it would be a lot more beneficial. In the garden, there's no lack of carbon, so it's impact would be negligible. Many of the conflicting reports come from other areas of the world, which would naturally have different soil types. There would be no significant mineral deficiency in most of Canada due to recent glacial activity (within the last 100,000 years) and deciduous trees dropping leaves high in minerals which have composted. I'm up north myself, and I have to dig 6' before the soil loses it's black color. 2" is enough, 6' is unheard of. It may be a different story in Puerto Rico, The Emirates, Western Australia, Peru, Colorado... But nobody is gardening in pure sand with no organic matter or mineral additives. They're all using compost which takes care of both so applying this in a backyard vegetable garden anywhere seems a pointless excess. The main benefits may be to specific crops in certain regions, and likely on broad acreage where a 0.1% difference adds up. For the home gardener, it seems like a waste of money. 0.1% of 30,000 acres will pay the salary of the person making char all year and produce a significant surplus in revenue. 0.1% of 12 carrots in the back yard falls well inside the normal deviation of the crop yield and is unnoticeable. Adding rock dust and char to a garden already rich in compost & minerals would have no significant impact. I still maintain that these items have many benefits in certain scenarios. Char for example is used heavily in soil remediation and works very well when cleaning up chemical spills. It can turn poisoned, lifeless land into safe, highly productive land very quickly. Environmentalists like it for it's ability to remove atmospheric carbon. You grow the tree, which takes all it's carbon from the air. Burn the tree, and yes, there's smoke... but the char left behind represents a few hundred pounds of carbon which was once in the atmosphere, and now isn't. It can be used to clean soils and water, or simply mixed into dirt where it will remain. I think they over sell the benefits it has for plants to further that agenda. Both Rock dust and Biochar however have uses in animal feed fortification, where they are both highly effective at keeping livestock healthy. The FAO has quite a few research papers on the topic. However, I already see "bio-char fortified dog biscuits" for $8 a can... I suppose if you're into having a more flatulent dog, sure. Unless you're growing the dog for meat, it doesn't confer the same benefits, lol. That's marketing departments cashing in on a buzz-word, similar to how it's being extolled in the home garden market. I think the issue is that people see something as being generally "good" or "bad", which is an over simplification with regard to biological systems. If you're a lifeguard in Hawaii, you really don't need to take Vitamin D supplements. If you're an Alaskan coal miner, it's probably not a bad idea. The issue isn't "is this good or bad", but rather "do I need it".

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank for the well thought out response. I agree there may be situations where these products do better. Bio char it think has a lot of potential especially for fertilizer delivery for agriculture in heavy clay areas. What I was hoping to show today is that the claims for home gardens that use compost are probably not supported by the evidence.

[@Allottedaaron]

That was a very thorough comparison. Great video Stephen.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you my friend !

[@jimsmij]

Another excellent analysis. The studies with similar results are increasing. Save your money, people, and don't bother buying rock dust or bio-char.

[@Tommyr]

+Jim S This proves what I've said before, the "Green grower" is full of it.

[@jimsmij]

Misguided, is all.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Jim S I am glad I could help my friend! I would be interested to take a look at the other studies that are out there :)

[@TheEmptynester]

Thank you,for taking the time and spending the money to do this.I had a feeling good soil is all you need. Best wishes. E :)

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+TheEmptynester I am glad you enjoyed the clip my friend. This one took quite awhile to put together ;)

[@TheEmptynester]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable I am grateful for your time.I I was expecting the bio char to take away from the soil. Plus it adds so much carbon to the atmosphere to create it. I share your video on FB.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you for sharing my clip! It was really interesting results hey!

[@HighDesertGarden]

+TheEmptynester I thought biochar was carbon. I don't think that much carbon is released into the atmosphere when making it. If anything, it sequesters carbon... In fact, the livestock that we Americans raise for meat, release more greenhouse gasses than our entire transportation system!!!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

you are right it does take carbon to make biochar however Phillip is correct in saying once added to the soil the carbon of the biochar is permanently sequestered there. I suppose its a trade but according to some of the research I have seen its a fairly balanced method to store carbon.

[@straubdavid9]

How did I miss this video ..... like you, I spent a small fortune on one bag of rock dust. The difference is that I grow 100% in containers ..... if I don't add it, the plants don't get it, but what I'm getting from this video is that it doesn't make a difference anyway. K(C)ompost is king! Take care and thanks for all your extensive testing .... I'm going back and visiting many of your vids to refresh my memory.

[@SustainableCraig]

Thanks for doing such an in depth study on this! You did a great job accounting for the many variables. Very interesting stuff.

[@powellgammill4265]

Outstanding. Thanks for spending the money and time and effort on this. I will watch the first video now but the lower yields in the rock dust garden could be explained by your using higher than recommended amounts of the rock dust having deleterious effects (likely added salts raising external osmotic pressure) on water and mineral uptake. Man how can you work those beds with the others you were laying on at one point so close together? Hear, hear to home owner compost piles as the only source of adding fertility back to the beds between seedings/transplants or side dressing!!!! The rest is expensive fluff unless you want to water from your fish pond. I can hear it now, "But I want the nutrient dense vegetables and fruits rock dust (or biochar) provide!"

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Powell Gammill I am glad you enjoyed the video. I did take a look at salts and its not super high but Ill take another look. I practice a no-till method of gardening and absolutely love it. That said I know what you mean about my garden. it is rather tight but I make it work none the less ;)

[@davideantonicelli9403]

Amazing experiment! I wonder if the advantage of biochar is its long term effects. The ability to continue to maintain fertility for centuries as is often claimed. So far I haven't seen enough to make me want to make or purchase any. I'll just continue to add my fireplace ashes to my compost. Some coals always make it in! Stephen, haven't seen any videos from you in a long time. Have you retired from youtube?? Your work is inspiring, thank you for all you've done!

[@williamwaters4506]

Nice job. In my opinion, the best fertilizer is compost.

[@Subterraorganics]

Thank you for your research! I have watched several and have enjoyed your approach, conciseness and clarity. It would be interesting to complete similar test on another area of your yard that does not get amended...or a neighbor's. As you have stated that when starting with good soil the results may be less than what actually might be the average person's soil. That opens a can of worms too. Great job!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+SubTerra Organics I hope to start a poor soil trial with the local university next summer to see if either will have a positive result.

[@Subterraorganics]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable I am subscribed and will be following you further! Thank you again for all of your efforts and insight. Happy holidays :)

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

It is my pleasure and I hope you have a safe and enjoyable holidays !

[@Desert2GardenLV]

I think the most important thing this proves is that Stephen has great compost and soil to begin with.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Great compost is not hard to make :) free and local resources do the job for you!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

The resources I have mentioned in clips like this kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJmWeWWalLx5iqc regardless of source are all high quality and have top notch fertilizing potential. let me know what you think!

[@cupbowlspoonforkknif]

Good info as usual but reading out the long list of elements seems tedious and unnecessary. Maybe it's useful for those on a mobile device that can't read small print though.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+David D Thats why I did it sorry my friend! the people on mobile are a large group of my viewers!

[@Shinintendo]

The main advocator of rock dust saying now that you should add rock dust to the compost to activate/charge it with microbes. A new trial will be comparing yield of a compost+rock dust and one without rock dust.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Shinintendo while I have seen that as well I am doubtful that it would provide any additional benefit. most healthy garden soils already have huge numbers of bacteria in them and with the extremely low application rate the compost itself would be adding the most. Thank you for the suggestion my friend! I really appreciate it!

[@Shinintendo]

Alright :) for the sake of knowledge can you make a specific compost that lack the complete nutrient value that normal rich compost have? I have no idea what you can leave out of it, it's a food for thought.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I think it would be very hard to make a compost lacking at least one nutrient. I am sure I could chemically strip something out but that's a lot of effort ;)

[@meehan302]

Thank you Stephen for that information.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Patrick Meehan absolutely my pleasure!

[@GazelleofIsrael]

Additionally enzymatic activity for digestion is optimal around pH 7. The biochar and rock dust raised beds both had pH greater than 6; not so for the control raised bed with a pH less than 6.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+GazelleofIsrael I will have to take a deeper look at this however off of the top of my head there is a reason there is a range that is optimal for plant growth. it allows both digestion and circulation of nutrients in the cycle with out chemically locking out the nutrients or forcing them to precipitate out to a mineral. While a pH closer to 7 may be better for digestion one closer to 5.5 may be better for nitrogen fixing bacteria. While the results are over 0.2 and are statistically different there is much more at play that likely balances out in this range. As mentioned earlier pH and its effects on nutrients requires much more research ;) ill put it on my list! Thank you for the great suggestion!

[@GazelleofIsrael]

A pH greater than 7 is better for nitrogen-fixing bacteria: A pH range between 7 and 5.5 are optimal for soil fungi. Dr. Elaine Ingham has excellent lectures on soil ecology and soil ecology succession. I hope this helps.

[@denveready3486]

Great control , great results, I’m alittle confused with a few areas , rock dust has always been described as adding minerals to depleted or poor soils , you did describe it as adding no extra nutrients in the test results, with the charged bio char results I’m also surprised as most people that charge bio char do it wet , as in they soak the bio char in barrels or containers for several months with animal urine , chicken manure and liquid fish emulsion and seaweed or liquid compost materials to charge the bio char, this allows the char to be fully charged internally within its structure to hold all those extra beneficial nutrients, I’ve never seen a dry based compost add to dry bio char medium used to char bio char Maybe this method could be used for another controlled growing process video

[@kamranadil7679]

Very nice sharing. I also started research on "effects of bio-char on medicinal plants"

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you ! I am glad others are working to investigate other applications and claims made about bio char!

[@HighDesertGarden]

Can't wait to see the results

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+High Desert Garden (Phillip) The tissue results will likely be in January. the samples just went in ;)

[@HighDesertGarden]

well fiddle sticks... ;)

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

sorry i had to freeze it and then figure out a method to dry it out and such... I burnt out my dehydrator and can't afford the replacement lol.

[@gardensandmore1614]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable So, I take it you used an expensive dehydrator, rather than a heat lamp? I was thinking a basic heat lamp used to keep baby chicks warm as they mature would be a simple and less expensive option to do the same job.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I don't have chickens... and am slightly confused!

[@BobMelsimpleliving.]

Exactly what I thought. A lot of smoke and mirrors to me. Thank you Stephen. Best wishes Bob.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I am glad I could present the evidence to you my friend.

[@BobMelsimpleliving.]

I like the scientificness you present.That may be a new word. Thanks Stephen. Best wishes Bob.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

absolutely not a new word. I use it all the time regardless of its absence from notable dictionaries ;)

[@buckstarchaser2376]

I've found that my worm castings turn to mush, resulting in poor physical properties in my potting mix, and making them unusable as 1-ingredient potting substrate. When I add rock dust (a very fine grit), "play sand", and well-rotted wood chips to the worm castings, the result is more "soil-like", and "spongey" in texture, whereas the castings themselves are both too scarce, and either wash out, or form a water-shedding cap on the surface of the soil. The factors that most likely results in my worm castings being like this are: complete worm processing of the materials, leaving no fiber, and frequent rinsing and collecting of the rinsed water for plant watering purposes. I suspect that regular applications of the rock dust, and sand; as well as harvesting before total food depletion of a region of my worm bed, may produce a more intact product, but the denser rock-based products tend to settle through the bed over time, once the worms stop moving them upward, and rinsing continues.

[@RobertFulop]

I had a feeling the RD and BC is unnecessary.. thanks for the confirmation.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Robert Fulop (Rawbert the Banana Farmer) my pleasure!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

fexummuk I am simply presenting the evidence and summarizing how it effects the main product claims. I am sorry you feel that somehow is untrue. I have posted and supported the statements made in the comments and further on my blog.

[@Cryptlord9999]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable Some of the most agriculturally productive and useful lands are areas that formerly held glaciers (thousands of years ago), the reason being is because of the "rock dust" created when the glaciers moved across the landscape. This mineralized the soil. Such great soil scientists as Julius Hensel and Sampson Morgan, whose findings where later replicated by Dr. Charles Northern and Albert Savage in North America, used soil remineralization and regeneration techniques. They employed ground stone dust or sea vegetation and green (plant) compost, and the periodic aeration of plant or tree roots through cultivation. The results were indeed phenomenal. Marketed spinach grown on ordinary soil contained 600-1600 parts per billion of iodine, whereas spinach grown on re-mineralized soil contained as high as 640, 000 parts per billion. Testing revealed that various vegetables grown Savages "mineral garden" possessed as much as 400% more iron and other minerals than crops grown by standard methods. Current day results are equally astounding. In the mid 1990's Robert Bruck at North Carolina State University studied the effects of remineralization on a severely declining forest in the Appalachian mountains. One year after an application of 175 lbs of rock dust/acre, the tissue levels of calcium and magnesium in both Red Spruce and Fraser Fir were shown to be enhanced from 12 to 29%, and soil levels of exchangeable calcium and magnesium had increase an average of 14%. Additionally the remineralized plots had 39% fewer dead trees then the non treated plots. The rock dust (Planter II) used in this experiment contained 5% calcium, 5% sulfur, 0.5% magnesium plus minute percentages of 37 trace elements with virtually no nitrogen, phosphorus or potassium. Those are impressive results for such a light application of a product with such low nutrient content. More importantly, according to conventional wisdom most of the trace elements supposedly have no nutrient value for plants." -Working with Nature, Shifting Paradigms by Heide Hermary.

[@popandbob]

Our soil here in AB is probably quite mineral rich as it is due to it all being created from rock during the ice age :) Secondly our water since it flows down from the mountains contains rock dust in it as well. My local water has between 160-300 mg/L of dissolved solids or in other words, rock dust.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Robert Gibbons make sure to filter that water before drinking it. that is a high TDS!! the soil here in Alberta defiantly has a great mineral content but it did take 10,000 years to get this way. The key is getting the minerals in the nutrient cycle which takes hundreds of years but once in keep composting and you will enjoy all that hard work :) Have you been enjoying the snow?

[@popandbob]

That TDS (at the max level) equates to 0.03% of the water (1L of water is 1kg or 1,000,000mg) the limit is 500mg/L. Your local water is between 179-267 mg/L I have been enjoying your vids very much :)

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I had thought the TDS criteria in Alberta were lower. It might be for fresh water aquatic life that it is lower. my mistake! I am very glad you enjoy the clips! It makes the work well worth it!

[@bluemystic7501]

Excellent test!

[@thatellipsisguy8984]

This is a very interesting analysis, and the results do not surprise me given the base of your soil. I would be interested to see a similar test done is soils that are not quite as good. We live in Australia and battle naturally depleted soils, as well as living in an old mining area where soils have been completely turned over and over and over. I do not use rockdust in our vege. plots as these are maintained by compost, but do add it to our orchard areas in the hope of adding back some minerals that just don't exist, and never will even if I composted the whole area.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Ian Forrester (ifr33) I am glad you enjoyed the clip. I am going to work to complete a poor soil trial next year and see how it works. That said the over application rate adds such a little amount of nutrients I would wonder if its worth the investment. One advantage that fruit trees have over most other garden plants is they are well adapted to growing in nutrient devoid areas. They often have fantastic root systems and form Mycorrhizal associations with fungi that further expand their nutrient reach. If you are having issues with your fruit trees might I suggest switching to mulching under the canopy of the tree? if you can access wood chips a thick layer will help your trees quite a bit and allow them to mine their own nutrients.

[@thatellipsisguy8984]

Thanks for your reply. Over the years our whole orchard areas have had PILES of mulch in many different forms (poo, vetch straw, lake weed, wood chips and compost). My biggest concern is that there are a number of minerals that just don't exist in our soil (or at negligible levels) and I suppose I am really interested to know if adding rock dust from rocks mined where these minerals do exist can add the missing elements back.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

they can add the minerals back but remember at a a diluted factor. With that in mind minerals require significant chemical and environmental weathering to break down and become plant available. unfortunately this usually takes 100s of years. I am interested are your fruit trees showing stress due to lack of a specific nutrient? I might be able to help taylor your response.

[@1966Faliro]

Mr growing your green...... Is gonna get his panties in a bunch over this. Thanks for the informative info. Now I feel like a ass for getting so much rock dust for my garden.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Stavros Govas I present the evidence as frankly as I can to present an unbiased account. Don't feel bad my friend many people have applied less then optimal products to the garden. The trick is to learn and apply to the best of your knowledge the best methods.

[@1966Faliro]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable I don't feel bad at all other than my money being wasted. The thing is I add compost and one thing that really helped plants from what I saw was seaweed compost. I'm in Ottawa and I hate how Mr know it all Hates on hydroponics . I grow all my greens indoors when it's - 20 outside. Can you pm me somehow so I can send you some heirloom pepperoncini seeds from greece that produce like crazy. I hope you like pickling if you grow them.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Stavros Govas I too have wasted money which is why I made the one comment about it in this video. I am not apposed to any gardening method rather prefer to use methods that allow me to grow as efficiently as possible. That said I can see scale issues if we tried to make a commercial venture from the same methods. hence where systems like hydroponics and aquaponics can really shine is when producing food for more people locally. shoot me a note on my Facebook page I would like to discuss the very kind offer you have given me.

[@mikemueting7344]

While just a novice to the gardening scene, I have been researching biochar. It seems to make sense that biochar would make no measurable difference in a garden with nutrient surplus (when only measuring nutrient levels). Biochar has a limit to the amount of nutrients that it can sequester; this is why all carbon filters must be replaced periodically. Any nutrients in excess of this limit are just as mobil and prone to leaching as the control plot. It seems that the true benefit for biochar in a home garden is the ability for long term carbon sequestering, improved conditions for microorganisms, water retention and as buffer helping to avoid nutrient deficiencies.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Mike Mueting I agree in good soil it seems to not be able to shin other than the fact it is a carbon that won't leave the soil. I am doing more research into other uses and should have a good idea in a few months of some of the success stories.

[@mikemueting7344]

My gardening is taking place on my hunting property 130 miles away. I don't have the time for the intensive gardening practices of many backyard gardeners. I have been making sufficient quantities of leaf mold and have all of the peat on my property that I will ever need. I'm hoping that biochar is a tool to help create more stable soil dynamics. I look forward to your future studies and results on this topic.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

my friend I am all about the low maintenance gardening and my garden is 3 seconds from my back door! I see no need spending a lot of time doing hard work when there are simple methods that allow me to avoid all that work!

[@mikemueting7344]

Yes, it is mostly low maintenance. Water is the only significant issue I have struggled to overcome. In the summer I may go 3 weeks or more without getting to the garden. I am trying some gravity fed auto filling ollas for my favorite plants this year. No idea how they will work but it satisfies my need to tinker and experiment. *****

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

lol now I am thinking how one could build something like that.... I bet you could use something like a toilet bowl floater to set the refill mark....

[@brantstock]

it looks like the results show that rock dust and biochar decrease the quality of the soil. I think it is very important to redo the test with poor soil or just dirt as the control because if you start fixing something that isn't broken you might start breaking it. it looks like the control in this test was really high quality soil with a very good bacterial.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I have a few people organizations whom we will look to replicate the experiment on their farms. They should have a fair example of poor soils.

[@ElderandOakFarm]

Thanks so much for your thorough research! It really helps!

[@rickschulte8594]

i DO APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT PUT INTO THIS STUDY, FOR I HAVE SPENT MONEY ON SUCH PRODUCTS, AND WAS NOT ALL THAT SURE I WAS SEEING GREAT INCREASE IN MY GROWING CROP.. YOU HAVE DONE AN INDEPTH STUDY, I THANK YOU. ONE QUESTION,, DO YOU FEEL GREEN SAND ADDS NUTRIENTS TO ONES SOIL?. SINCERELY RICK , I AM AN ADVID BELIEVER IN TREE LEAVES, AND LOVE ITS WONDERFUL EARTHY TEXTURE.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Rick Schultz Likely all that green sand will do is add a fraction of available elements but mostly improve the drainage of the soil. Leaves are a much better source of nutrients ;) now you can save your money and use free and local resources as the science seems to strongly support them over products !

[@RealDavidNorth]

I was hoping to do some experiments with biochar in poor soil in 2015, but couldn't allocate the time to it. I have both heavy clay, and nearly pure sand in different areas of my property. My hypothesis is that only poor soils are likely to be helped by biochar. I hope to get at this in 2016, and I also intend to test the addition of coffee grounds to these same poor soils and to test the addition of both biochar and coffee grounds to the same bad soils. Perhaps I will be able to conduct a very abbreviated test indoors over the winter, as I plan to do an experiment growing some peppers indoors.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+David North That experiment sounds fantastic! Make sure you tell me how you do! I have a sneaking suspicion that you are right about the Biochar. In poor compacted soils it will act like humus and break up the soil holding onto moisture and nutrients! How do you plan on applying your coffee grounds? I completed an analysis on coffee grounds last winter and was surprised how good they are for the garden. That said mixing them in has a high probability of causing nutrient issues for next year in the soil. Another thing to think of is implementing a simple mulch to help break things up. Mulch materials will bring in earth worms and add humus over time.

[@PopleBackyardFarm]

Thank you this was very informative.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Pople BackyardFarm my pleasure!

[@stevegillaspie8566]

Stephen I must agree with Ray (Praxxus55712). Although my garden is not producing what I want just yet, I am not spending loads of money. Good video. Steve

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Steve Gillespie I am glad you enjoyed the clip! Over the next few years as you get better with the free and local resources your harvest will improve my friend! Check out this clip I think it may help you! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJmWeWWalLx5iqc

[@Cryptlord9999]

Some of the most agriculturally productive and useful lands are areas that formerly held glaciers (thousands of years ago), the reason being is because of the "rock dust" created when the glaciers moved across the landscape. This mineralized the soil. Such great soil scientists as Julius Hensel and Sampson Morgan, whose findings where later replicated by Dr. Charles Northern and Albert Savage in North America, used soil remineralization and regeneration techniques. They employed ground stone dust or sea vegetation and green (plant) compost, and the periodic aeration of plant or tree roots through cultivation. The results were indeed phenomenal. marketed spinach grown on ordinary soil contained 600-1600 parts per billion of iodine, whereas spinach grown on remineralized soil contained as high as 640, 000 parts per billion. Testing revealed that various vegetables grown in Savages "mineral garden" possessed as much as 400% more iron and other minerals than crops grown by standard methods. Current day results are equally astounding. In the mid 1990's Robert Bruck at North Carolina State University studied the effects of remineralization on a severely declining forest in the Appalachian Mountains. One year after an application of 175lbs of rock dust per acre, the tissue levels of calcium and magnesium in both red spruce and fraser fir were shown to be enhanced from 12% to 29%, and soil levels of exchangeable calcium and magnesium had increased an average of 14%. Additionally the remineralized plots had 39% fewer dead trees than the non treated plots. The rock dust (planter II) used in this experiment contained 5% calcium, 5% sulfur, 0.5% magnesium, plus minute percentages of 37 trace elements with virtually no nitrogen, phosphorus or potassium. Those are impressive results for such a light application of a product with such a low nutrient content. More importantly, according to the conventional wisdom most of the trace elements supposedly have no nutrient value for plants. - Working with Nature, Shifting Paradigms by Heide Hermary.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Cryptlord9999 I submitted samples of the crops grown in rock dust and the control to see if the presence of elements is increased. I appreciate the references Ill take a look at them over time. I present the information as i find it. To date I am the evidence does not support the products main claims.

[@Cryptlord9999]

***** Not all soils require rock dusts. Only a soil test can really determine that. Secondly if your soils do not have optimal soil biology, especially mycorrhizae fungi, populations, then rock dusts might not have a noticeable difference.It is through the action of microbial activity that rock dusts, and rock, minerals are broken down into plant useable form Different types of rock dusts also have different mineral contents, so the type of rock dust used matters. Different regions have different parent rock material, and thus different mineral contents in the soil naturally. Some can be deficient or devoid of some minerals, especially in areas of heavy agricultural usage, more specifically industrial agriculture. I would recommend looking into the work of the various scientists I mentioned in my original comment. Rock dusts have already been proven to have a benefit in demineralized soils, that doesn't mean ALL soils will need them. Personally, I will trust the soil scientists above your own anecdotal evidence, especially considering the results were repeated by multiple scientists.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

My evidence is far from anecdotal. while there are limitations of citizen science they are still valid and re-peatable results. I have reviewed a number of peer reviewed papers on the issue and none of them support the use of a mineral additive in soils even when they are deficient for elements the product contains. I am a scientist by education and training and this is an area I practice in. I will take the time to review your findings however to date I am leaning towards the statements I made in this video.

[@cjcoleman3893]

I was under the impression biochar doesnt add nutrients but instead helps retain solubles and provides homes for microbes in the pores.

[@jrmint2]

perhaps there isn't enough water to leach minerals into soil. Perhaps leaving it in a cistern and watering from it would mineralize the water and make it more bioavailable? perhaps there is a mineral in this particular rock that inhibits mineral uptake. Anyhow --thanks for a fascinating experiment!

[@keyplayr61greenhousehydrop14]

Great info, Stephen! I'm gonna stick to my natural homemade compost! Free, and available ; )

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Turns out the might of science supports it too lol. Home made compost is great!

[@virtualfather]

Thanks for all your hard work, thoughts on bio char, it was accumulated in the Amazon over 2000 years. the soil in general is poor i have read. I have watching you One Yard and many others. Some of the swale cutting permacultural ones, it seems to take several years to revive the soil. So perhaps the biochar needs several years to create a sustainable habitat.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Andre Lotscher I think you are right however I don't think ill have the ability to run this trial for 2000 years but ill do my best. I share your hunch that the biochar may need much more time to start to shine and ill look into continuing the trials as long as they are of value however in a rich soil condition I don't think the charged biochar will need to shine as the soil is already doing the heavy lifting.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Im not sure if my gardening OCD would allow me to neglect my soil... after all good gardeners like us spend years often getting the soil just right!

[@virtualfather]

***** sounds good still the control seemed best could it be that it got more sunlight over time because it was in the mi ddle?

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

possibly under 30 seconds more light but really that should not impact things as much as they did.

[@virtualfather]

I am finding that a diverse mix of mulch 4 to 6 inch thick 2 to 3 times a year retains moisture and creates compost if you have lots of worms.

[@TheNorthwestForager]

So after all this would you say composting is still our best bet?

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+The Northwest Forager looks like Grandpa was right again. compost is best :)

[@MrMac5150]

Looks very cold where your at.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+MrMac5150 it was a chilly day when I shot :)

[@movingnaturefilms]

Trust science, not John Kohler.

[@PotatoStrong]

Can you do comparison tests on veganic/sustainable vs conventional gardening ie gardens with no animal products like manure, blood and bone meal. I'm using compost and leaves. I know you've shown leaves pretty much have everything we need. Most of the animal products are used so the industry can get rid of its slaughterhouse waste products and have convinced people they need to use them.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Potato Strong I will put that on the list my friend and take a look. It looks like however I garden like a vegan already lol.

[@Arkryal]

+Potato Strong Just wondering, if we don't use blood and bone meal to get rid of slaughterhouse waste, where shall we put it? Speaking on behalf of the majority of humanity, we're still going to eat meat ;) If people choose not to, that's their choice, I respect that (not starting a vegan vs carnivore debate). But these products are effective sources of nitrogen and simultaneously deal with a waste problem. I guess I'm not seeing the down side or why you would avoid these products. Eating an apple from a tree fertilized with bone meal isn't the same as eating a pork shoulder. If it helps, think of it as committing their remains to the earth in a respectful burial, lol. I can tell you, leaves from oak and maple are far superior when compared even to the best manures. Grass clippings are equivalent to manure for the most part, but not high in minerals. You can certainly choose not to use animal based products in the garden and still produce top quality food. You might com up a bit light in sulphur without the use of animal products, after a few years. But you can buy mined sulphur, it need not be derived from animal waste. I would suggest using worm castings or bug brass (still technically manure), but composting correctly makes these unavoidable anyway and will drastically improve the quality of the compost. If you're avoiding the products for ethical reasons against animal slaughter, but aren't squeamish about the animals themselves, then look at Bat Guano. It's manure, but nobody's killing bats for it. If you just think that animal and bug parts are "icky" (I know some people who do think that), stick to hydroponics. The biggest problem I've seen with the idea of veganic gardening is there are many different motives. Some will use manures as long as they're not coming from the meat industry, so horse manure is OK. Other's view keeping horses as immoral, and won't use it. Some don't like worms in the compost, because "worms are gross" and won't use any product which isn't 100% plant derived. The terms "veganic gardening" lacks definition because people draw the line in different areas, and for different reasons. Sometimes, it's political, sometimes it's ethical or religious, sometimes it's simply in response to locally available resources, sometimes it's to deal with a surplus of plant matter, or because the Home Owner's association has a rule that you must, or because your girlfriend is "finding herself", so she's a vegan this week, next week she'll be a wiccan or a buddhist, then she'll be an astronaut or a firefighter... and you're just trying to be supportive and keep pace with the crazy bitch (ok, maybe that's just me), or maybe you fear avian flu and mad cow getting into the food supply, or you just don't like meat. There's a million motives. You'll need to pick and choose the methods which suit your motives. But rest assured, they are all feasible. Whatever constraints you set for yourself, you can work within them to great success.

[@gardensandmore1614]

+Joseph Miller Dang, I might have to read this a few times to get a handle on what is statement and what is a question. I do see a lot of thought in all the words, and more than a few opinions, but have no idea what is being asked in simple terms if an answer was expected. A lot of options seem to have been concerned and presented, but not sure what to do with the "finding herself" part. Marriage counseling? Just a thought. I am thinking guys aren't suppose to understand the gals, or we might not get curious enough to give one a go while seeking a life partner who has just as much trouble figuring the guy out.

[@damian33dc]

youtubes big shot Gardner( grow your own greens) is bringing all big guns out all the greatest experts... knew books/ experts and claiming that you didn't use a special fairy dust the way you're supposed too( basically a certain yoga pose while you're chanting and mixing glacier rock dust with your topsoil in the backyard) I am really looking forward to the leaf tissue samples in your upcoming video

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+damian33dc that is really interesting. I will have to check out his video. the tissue samples have gone in and I look forward to finding out what is in them. if you are looking for autumn leaf analysis I compared my fall leaves vs rock dust last winter kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpyyqIN3hal0kJI

[@catalinoancea6601]

Good job!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Catalin Oancea Thank you!

[@chrisdahl864]

I appreciate your hard work and the info. It has raised a question tho'. About a year ago Gary Pilarchik did a series on the different garden nutrients, what they are needed for by plants and how long a time b4 they are biologically available for plants to use. While I don't know how he determined this, he said it takes RD 10-12 months in the soil to become biologically available. Would that timeline make a difference in your tests? If he's correct, almost everything(except compost) really won't have any effect on this years garden but will/should affect next years results, right? Thanks for your response.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Chris Dahl I am not sure if his statement about rock dust being available with in a year is correct. That said the rock dust in my trial was applied in May of 2014 and should have had that time already. It also did not really matter as the analysis we did accounts for the plant available and unavailable elements. So regardless if its available to the plant or not it all shows up in the results. That said the compost that makes up most of the best has so much more that the rock dust at a 1.6% application rate simply does not add anything of note.

[@Imwright720]

Hopefully you checked the soils in the 3 beds before the testing to verify their identical nature. Adding many amendments makes sure you give the plants what they need. You can easily see plants grow larger and healthier in beds with lots of choices. Your an interesting guy but your making gardening very nerdy. Plant some plants using whatever you want and be happy.

[@dingdizon3640]

Thanks for sharing. This is the 2nd video i have watch with the same topic as yours n both of u have shown that the control grouo sre better than d dust n biochar. Just curious, May i know how the biochar was made n activated n the amount of time used in activating biochar. The way of activating d biochar might have an effect. I have also watch 2 videos both saying, not all biochars are created equal

[@johnjude2685]

I'm wondering if my clay base soil is holding elements good enough so not to show any problems. The soil in South America doesn't hold minerals as my clay base. Does seem like a fair test Thanks for showing

[@FrostPlutarc]

Love your video and appreciated the time and effort you put into this. Your already saving me money and that's music to my wallet. I do have one question about your raised beds. Do you think is possible that the close proximity of your raised beds could affect the results? Once more thank you Stephen!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+FrostPlutarc I am very glad you enjoyed the video and your wallet is a little heavier :) the beds are separated by wood and then I installed a french drain between them so the water would drain out instead of across to beds. there should be very little transfer and most of that on the surface.

[@FrostPlutarc]

Excellent, thank you for taking the time to explain it to me Stephen! My Heavier Wallet thanks you too.lol

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

It is my pleasure!

[@malcolmt7883]

Some people think gardening is like witchcraft- throw in some crystals, burn some incense. I prefer to do stuff that actually works. Excellent series, but the Rockdust- Biochar Industry may want want you to disappear, for throwing a wet blanket on their business, so don't open any suspicious Christmas Presents this year, my friend!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Ed Harley I will make sure to be diligent when receiving packages this year ;) I do however think Biochar might have applications in poor soil agriculture but just not our common back yard gardens ;)

[@brantstock]

I also think that the nutrients and minerals in rock dust need several seasons to become bioavailable. even though there may be more minerals with the rock dust group, they may not be available and might actually be decreasing the concentration of the nutrients that are available, thus decreasing the quality of the soil at the moment.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

These results presented represent the total available and unavailable of every element. So if an element is bound up in a mineral this tests frees it. You are right though it would take years for some of them to break down.

[@brantstock]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable if the test frees the nutrients, then maybe whatever comes out of the testing should be put in the soil and see what happens to the plants.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

well what comes out of the analysis is atomized its probably not going be to applied to the garden ;) ill look into how things are released into nutrient cycle soon

[@DanJanTube]

Just glancing at some of the numbers on your analysis... are you saying that a change from 21,000 to 14,000 is not statistically significant?

[@morgrimx5732]

It was my understanding that biochar acts as a sponge, if you will, for soil bacteria, not nutrients. It has so much more surface to volume, and the bacteria grow on that surface. A lot of soil food web videos talk about how plants communicate their needs to this live, organic soil, and how that soil responds. It's all done with bacteria. So the premise is: more bacteria, better soil. There's more going on than presence of inorganic minerals. I think you are onto something when you mention poor soils. I think a comparison over years between tilled and untilled soils and biochar, etc. would be interesting.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Could be that bacteria are the benefit however the benefit is likely negated in humus rich soils. That leads us to a poor soil trial that would likely show improved results.

[@ckmbyrnes]

I thought biochar's claim to fame was not that it held on to minerals but was a perfect environment for microbes that help the soil?

[@karnagec7]

As a scientist somewhat myself, I find myself asking this question. Isnt one important requirement of conducting an experiment, that repeated experiments be done? Also, shouldnt the sample size be bigger than just... one set per season? Yet, the results are being impressed upon viewers as 'conclusive', yes, the two products DO NOT do what it claims to do. To improve on the believability of your experiment, it would be better to have more than just 3 boxes of soil, one with rock dust, one with biochar and one control. And once the experiment has been repeated sufficient times, can we disregard these product claims. Hope to see you able to do that soon! I am not a rock dust nor biochar (i dont even use this) supporter but another lingering question I have is that, if the results are conclusive, then why are some large scale farmers still ardently supporting these products? Also just wondering because of the way you set up your beds, any chance of soil or nutrients leeching from the top bed down to the middle, and down to the final bed? Anyway, appreciate your work, keep em coming!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+karnagec7 You are right. This study does not meet the peer reviewed standard however Citizen Science even with its limitations under the results today are fairly strong which I felt was more than appropriate to state that todays results do not appear to support the main product claims. The hypothesis needs to stand and one piece of evidence that suggests otherwise is enough to move on to another hypothesis. That said ill likely do another years trials in my garden and work to duplicate the results at another site. I have french drains in the beds to prevent any leaching between the beds ;) I have no idea why larger producers support it. I am wondering if it is for the drainage purposes as appose to the fertilizer potential. It it something I have to look into more!

[@karnagec7]

Thanks! Very good explanation!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+karnagec7 I am a happy scientist as well.

[@RafsKitchenGardenChannel]

Great information thanks for all the hard work to prepare this experiment. I will think twice before buying rocks dust next year. So I guess the best option for me to make sure I have enough minerals in soil would be to produce as much as I can my own compost or eventually buy compost which has added for example seaweeds for micro-nutrients ?

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Raf's Kitchen Garden most composts will have more than enough nutrients. That said I am not sure if you had caught my video a few weeks ago but I summarize the findings of the testing garden assumptions series. I go through the free and local resources and summarize what is in them and if used in a compost it is highly likely to be more than sufficient. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJmWeWWalLx5iqc as for seaweed unless you live on the ocean its likely not something you really need in there. Leaves, Coffee grounds and other resources you already have should have more than enough. more can be found in this clip. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5_LeWqfjMqmeac Sorry for so many links but I thought you might like them.

[@RafsKitchenGardenChannel]

Thanks for all the information :)

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

my pleasure!

[@shantube75]

Very interesting results. I'm perplexed about the reduced yield from rock dust....and I'm hoping there's recovery as I have quite a bit of Azomite in my raised beds :(

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Shannon Reis I am beginning to believe its likely random chance that the yields were so crazy I don't think it has to do with the products but I could be wrong. More research is required. That said I believe the soil tests really showed me a lot.

[@priayief]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable Cautiously spoken, like a true scientist!

[@kirstenwhitworth8079]

Invaluable! Thanks!

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Glad I could help

[@pgal6904]

Did you use organic fertilizers?

[@preadp1]

A good video Stephen just a couple of comments which will affect your results. You may think that the biochar and Rock Dust are well mixed and I will tell you this it is is not so. When mixing two powders it is almost impossible to get a homogeneous mixture due to segregation mechanisms. In fact in some instance by increasing the mixing you are actually promoting segregation and thus in some areas will be high in material and offers will be deficient. The results will be dependent on the Scale of scrutiny, so for example if I example an area of 1m by 1m it may look well mixture, but if I examine an area of 1cm by 1 cm I may find this is not so , and a highly heterogeneous mix is generated.As I have said previously the way you sample is highly unrepresentative as you are basing it on one measurement and the method used will cause segregation. If you want representative sample you firstly need to determine the size of the sample and then you need to use a thief probe at the same location in 25 areas of the bed at the same coordinates at varying heights. The 25 samples will then need to be analysed separately so that a mean can be determined, along with variance or if that is too costly then the 25 samples can be mixed together and one overall sample produced. This be far will be more representative than taking one sample.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Antonio Pachowko That is a wonderful sampling method. As Ill be looking to duplicate the results I will likely implement this next year to see if the results can be duplicated. thank you my friend!

[@stevenrowlandson9650]

What kind of rock dust? Basalt or Glacial rock dust?

[@jayshriver3933]

I really like your videos. I know good science when I see it. However...Because the control bed looks to be very rich, knowledgably tended soil, I'm not surprised that there's little difference between it and the char bed and rock dust bed. If one were to amend common (you are an uncommon gardener!) soil with either rock dust or biochar I wonder if the differences would be more appreciable.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Jay Shriver I do think a poor soil trial would likely yield slightly different results for the biochar however as mentioned in this clip the rock dust is simply applied at such a low level it is unlikely to change anything.

[@Nrwich1]

What are your results and thought about these amendments today 09/21 ?

[@MarkusBurrer]

Biochar does not help making good soil better. But it helps making bad soil better like in the Amazon. And Biochar needs time, more time than two years. And you still have to add organic matter to feed the microorganisms

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I believe the statements you made are likely correct however it has been marketed to home gardeners albeit far less than rock dust. Both products have claimed immediate results. Hence the trials.

[@MrMac5150]

You just proved, you do not need to add these products to the soil, save your money.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+MrMac5150 the evidence is s strong that compost made with free and local resources is likely all you need for a wonderful garden!

[@MrMac5150]

***** That's what I wanted to hear.

[@gardensandmore1614]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable I can understand the conclusions to date. In the back of my mind I cannot help but wonder if there is more to the story. Not that I can believe the claims of the expensive garden additives salesmen, but more along the lines of what do they do for the billions of little thingies that live in soil. In short, we do disturbance gardening, meaning we kill off millions of little thingies that live in soil and feed plants, in the same way we digest foods through our interior home for lots and lots of creatures one cannot see without the add of devices. On the other hand, if we gardened so as to preserve the little thingies and keep them happy, as if an undisturbed remote rainforest area, it stands to reason the plants would benefit more. How much more would be an interesting experiment if we understood how the soil creatures thrived in various natural environments that would be difficult to replicate in a backyard garden.

[@MrMac5150]

Gardens and More There are people that believe in the No DIG system.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I dont dig as I subscribe to the what If I don't do that method. One year I tried not tilling. turns out it did just as well as tilling. Further research would be required however the no-till also has the benefit of not causing damage to the beneficial organisms in the soil. That I have used an indicator test on a number of my soils and found there is literally billions of bacteria per gram of soil. While the claim about products like rock dust and biochar improving beneficial organisms lives in the soil is hard to test I am fairly confident the methods I have explored already do a great job at making it cozy for them.

[@truesight91]

Its because nutrients are not the key, cosmic forces are, vitality of the soil health/web-life/circulation is.

[@davedzwilewski5195]

BioChar is not being marketed in SoCal as a material that can conserve water. One company is claiming a 55% water savings. Just blatant false advertising and not peer reviewed evidence to support claims. At $360.00/cy and a 20% by volume use rate biochar is a expensive material that does no more than good quality compost at $16.00/cy.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Dave Dzwilewski If biochar was the best water retention amendment I am willing to bet your area it would be quite common. It is beginning to appear that a good quality compost is all that a garden needs for nutrients and water retention.

[@davedzwilewski5195]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable - I agree 100%. It's just an angle they are using to move product. I Googled a few peer reviewed studies concerning biochar and water retention and not significant difference was noted expect in sandy soil which any organic would help a sandy soil. In our area polymers are making a come back with equal crazy claims of water savings. It's all BS. I like your videos.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Thank you Dave I am very clad that you find my videos helpful!

[@Darkfalz79]

I wonder how many tonnes of rock dust and other snake oil James Kobbler (pseudonym) has helped sell. It's probably moderately useful in small quantities. One bag would probably do an entire garden for 10 years. If I purchased it I'd probably add it to my worm bins and compost bin instead, so it gets combined with the organic matter.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Darkfalz79 Im not sure if you caught the part where I spoke about the dilution factor. I think a compost has so many more orders of magnitude of every nutrient rock dust simply does not have anything to add that the soil already has. Now thats not to say something like that may not have a purpose. Worms need grits and if added to a worm bin it could help them digest. Past that I am afraid you might not get more than just a grit as the fertilizer potential is low.

[@Darkfalz79]

***** I'd be interested in seeing a mineral analysis of a typical clay subsoil. I suspect it'd be pretty similar to rock dust.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Darkfalz79 your getting ahead of me lol. I have already tested it but was saving the results for a video I am planning. I believe this is both the first time you have read my mind lol.

[@JenMarco]

This isn’t a fair competition. The biochar bed was at the top and water could have leached the nutrients down to the lower beds.

[@johac7637]

Only if PH isn't tying up nutrients, being major, or minor elements. And there is nothing missing, nutrient wise. It's not a fix all, my father used to make it in the 1940s from sawmill wood wastes, in British Columbia, he said his Dad did it in Austria in the late 1800s with his family before coming to Canada in 1902, and would of in Saskatchewan on their homestead, had they had wood waste. Grampa did as soon as he moved to the Fraser Valley where I grew up. Tests in Europe are way more advanced than this study, and it is produced at landfills as compared to burying them as Americans do.

[@gottheilj]

Your experimental results are intriguing. One conclusion that you seem to be saying is that both rock dust and biochar as compared to the control give negative results. Even the lab results do not show significant nutrient increase after application. I have a problem with this because it seems to prove that the content analysis on the rock dust bag is fraudulent. Perhaps a confirmatory analysis is in order, otherwise it is fair to assume the rock dust to be sand.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+Jerry Gottheil I don't think rock dust is fraudulent however the application rate as I mentioned in the video even at well above the recommended amount is far too low to be relevant. I also did complete analysis on rock dust and will link the video below. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpyyqIN3hal0kJI

[@gottheilj]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable I don't understand, perhaps you can clear it up. Consider the control as A and rock dust as B. Both A and B started with equal nutrient values but B had rock dust added. My thinking is that B would have nutrient levels equal to or greater than A. Your results indicate less nutrients than A. Voodoo gardening? Something must be unaccounted for. Perhaps both amendments ruined the Humic factors in the soil and the nutrients simply leached away. BTW do you have an opinion on Humic and fulvic acid in the garden?

[@GazelleofIsrael]

This is not conclusive as you would need to test the plant tissues from each raised bed to determine if the biochar and/or rock dust increased soil microbial activity to allow more bio availability for the plants.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+GazelleofIsrael the microbes in the soil in my garden are off the chart from control the biochar and rock dust. There are so many per gram traditional methods of testing resulted in over capacity numbers. That said These results are looking to address claims made about the products and see if the evidence supports the claim.

[@GazelleofIsrael]

What are the fungal-to-bacterial ratios for the raised beds?

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

unfortunately there is no certifiable method to test that and fungal and bacterial communities would both need to be classified in order to get a value from that number. I will do some more research into the method as I have seen is a few times now. Further to your original comment. There are limitations to the resources a Citizen Scientist like myself has for trials like these. I do what I can to address the product claims and provide the evidence for people to make their own decisions.

[@GazelleofIsrael]

Dr. Elaine Ingham has some links on her website to better measure those soil communities.

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I will take a look my friend! Thank you

[@johnjude2685]

Your soil type?

[@dennisbuckleyable]

Your trial seems to very from the name of the trial.

[@knhc1]

(worm pollution should read worm population ) in previous coment

[@damian33dc]

he is also claiming that you have a certain agenda which sounds like a bunch of BS

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

+damian33dc I am not sure what kind of agenda I have. I suppose i do have one. To promote growing food at home and exploring methods practices and products to see what is effective.

[@damian33dc]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable in the video clip they were mentioning that perhaps some of the results that you got perhaps maybe you made them to fail in some way.... that's what is being implied after I did some research on KZbin to see who has actually done scientific study on rock dust in one growing season and it looks like it's only you Stephen... although they don't mention your name or your channel specifically I believe they are referring to your data and analysis thanks Damian from Toronto

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Damian. That is absolutely his right to refute or argue with my findings. that said I did watch the video and really do question why he claimed I may have an agenda and have set the experiments up for failure. what is my motivation to do either. I don't promote products and I am open source about everything. I have posted all of my lab results and the methods used. My hope is that others take up the experiment and present their evidence. that is what I post everything. All I want and the core of why I garden is in my introduction video. I want to help others grow more food at home and hope to teach them the most effective methods as outlined by todays understanding of the science.

[@damian33dc]

+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable and that's why I and many thousands of people love your channel ...and by the way the product in question I believe you used was gaia green products Limited. glacier rock dust from CANADA so it's not exactly like we have anything against Canadian products:-) thanks for the reply I can't wait till part three of the series...

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

Part three will likely be in January as the results are not back and it takes me about 40 hours to prepare the script and I work full time and don't let this get in the way of my wife and sons time so it takes a few weeks :) thank you my friend for the kind comment about my channel. I really hope people find value in my videos.

[@rahulbhot1234]

Activate your bio char before using. Thats what got you the low yields

[@AlbertaUrbanGarden]

I did activate it with worm castings and compost for 4 weeks prior to application.

[@ggauche3465]

Again, I enjoyed this vid. But you are using very tiny beds! You need multiple beds in different places and in different soils to come to worthwhile conclusions! Also, the proof is in the pudding, i.e. the quality, flavour, nurition and keeping quality of the vegetables grown. That's not something that can be known by simple soil nutrient tests. You need independent assessments about the quality of the produce!