Do “Sweetened” Tunings Really Make You Sound Better?

[@thegreenembers]

I use something called les Paul tuning, basically you put your guitar in tune play for 2 minutes. Then the guitar puts itself in a sweetened tuning

[@WW-1995]

Wow this joke is so original

[@astr43us]

The G string goes out by a half-step after one bend

[@WW-1995]

@@astr43us You need to string it differently, there's plenty of tutorials on KZbin. That might solve your issue.

[@astr43us]

@@WW-1995 It's a Gibson joke

[@aeoteroa818]

@Chill Music 4 Study w w is right, 0/10 weak ass boomer joke

[@notanotherguitarchannel]

I use the standard, "close enough for rock n roll" offsets.

[@stratonut]

it works for me

[@good_king_guitarman1334]

Works for me too!

[@h.markhorton8188]

What are these offsets? Your own ears r a standard offset?

[@neslesman6708]

I believe the Les Paul Junior epitomizes that sentiment.

[@BCTGuitarPlayer]

440 or a half step lower depending on what YOU prefer to hear. Everything is subjective.

[@polyglottenforpain]

I've been trying to explain to a friend guitarist why I tune by ear to fretted notes after tuning my b and a strings to pitch. Didn't even know there's a name for what I was (amateurishly) trying to do, much less so many techniques and variations! Thanks for giving me something to show them and giving me so much more to try.

[@godzilla964]

There's nothing wrong with using a tuner, just tune the initial attack and not the decay.

[@dsego84]

Yeah, if you only tune the open strings, then fretted notes won't be in tune, I've learned to detune the e string on my ukulele slightly, so the fretted g will be in tune for chords, otherwise it's very sharp. It's a compromise, but sounds better.

[@billsybainbridge3362]

Rhett, in future when discussing alternate tunings, it might be useful and informative to try with a super clean tone as well as the Harmonically richer "Edge of Breakup" tone you're so fond of (and maybe even a full-on Distortion tone for contrast). The extra Harmonics actually change the perception of tuning, by making the Spectra overlap differently against the fundamental, especially depending on how complex the Chords are. Cheers, and another great video! :)

[@RhettShull]

Great point! I hadn’t considered that.

[@fredstevens799]

I've found that some significant overdrive greatly improves hearing the "beats" between the reference note and the note you are trying to hit (especially harmonics) when tuning by ear.

[@halofour01]

Hugely good point!! Tuning for strummy stuff is way different than tuning for heavy stuff.

[@grahamtaylor3093]

But then again Brett say’s that he hears the difference and that is what is important. We all hear things a little differently, so super clean to full distortion it’s up to the person playing. I tune as I play because it sounds better, not had many complaints after 50 years of playing. Great vid to get a guitarist thinking.

[@billsybainbridge3362]

@@grahamtaylor3093 - Sure, I get that, and agree that in the end the player's choice rules. The bottom line is that his videos explore all this subtlety for the benefit of others though, hence my comment about showing the range of effect. ;)

[@Okla_Soft]

Paul David’s video on this subject where he uses frusciante’s riff as an example is such a great lesson. I always knew that the 12-tone scale was a mathematical “compromise” or “best-fit”, but I had no idea how off certain note-relationships were in specific chords, and the fact that certain de-tunings can make a specific chord sweeter was very eye-opening. You can really use your ear as a scale instead of a chromatic tuner.

[@nunyobusiness7676]

Could someone please link Paul's video? Would love to give it a watch.

[@dpatt6175]

Why don't you give him a kiss then. And sign up for his course while your at it.

[@audibletapehiss3764]

@@dpatt6175 No one likes you.

[@kitten-whisperer]

@@audibletapehiss3764 I like him.

[@jt3483]

I have the Peterson head clip tuner and use the sweetened GTR and ACU tuning on my electrics and acoustics respectively. I really like it. Seems to be more clear but also harmonically rich.

[@DizzySaxophone]

This issue with sweetened tunings is that it all becomes meaningless once you’re laying with another instrument that is locked into equal temperament. A chamber ensemble will tune on the fly in a piece to make chords sound correct, but if you have a keyboard instrument that can’t move, then you stay locked with that instrument. EVH tuning his B down 13-15 cents for the major 3rd on that string works when it was just him and Michael Anthony, but it doesn’t work as well when you have synth/keyboard going on. Make sure you take your ensemble into consideration when trying these.

[@yearginclarke]

Yes, this is very good knowledge that I'm glad you mentioned!

[@indignocat]

That's why I always thought that sweetened tunings are mainly a guitarist / bassist thing in small bands.

[@CyberChrist]

That's certainly possible to mimic with synths, though ;)

[@brianholland5453]

I find tuning a guitar with fretted/capoed strings is best when you’ll be playing with a piano.. since fretting adds tension and drives a note a bit sharp (and most notes, at least for the things I usually play, are fretted rather than open strings), getting the guitar “in tune” when fretted/capoed at say the 5th fret is going to make it match the piano better. If playing a lot of cowboy chords/open strings, I’ll try to tune halfway between “open strings in tune” and “fretted strings in tune”… the open strings will register as a tiny bit flat and the fretted notes a tiny bit sharp, but splitting the difference that way comes closest to having all of the guitar notes “match” the piano. If I just tune the guitar perfectly with open strings, the fretted notes are sharp enough against the piano to drive me crazy.

[@michael1]

Why would a synth be locked? I can see what you're saying makes sense for an acoustic piano but a synth can pretty much play any pitch when you press any key (and many if not all of them have ways of bending or altering the pitch)

[@efrainmarroquin741]

2:17 Open chords with Standard Tuning 4:30 Open chords with Sweetend Tuning

[@ModernKaveman]

Thanks, Rhett! I own a Peterson Strobe tuner pedal and have seen sweetened tuning options on it and have always wondered. Thanks for educating us. Great job, sir!

[@TheWhollymoly]

All analog instruments are, by their very nature, imperfect. Befriend a saxophonist. Befriend a player of a non-fretted stringed instrument. They will open your eyes to a whole world of intonation possibilities. In the end, intonation is always the responsibility of the player. Take good care of your instrument. Learn its idiosyncrasies; then learn to do whatever it takes to make it sound in tune. I've never really thought about it, but I guess I go to great lengths to be in tune. I've never really thought about names, or theories, or concepts. I just know that my guitar is either in tune with the other instruments, or it's not; and if it's not, I do whatever it takes to correct it.

[@Patrick-857]

Yeah, this is actually the correct way. All these sweetened tuning options in digital tuners and multi FX units are fine, but you aren't relying on your ears, and you're still only getting a tuning that works in specific situations. You have to tune for what you're playing, and that's why the old school players tuned while playing.

[@mitchmaule6517]

Good shit

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

Violinist. We make micro-corrections to finger position on almost every note to get the intonation as close to perfect as possible. Always bugged me that piano and guitar and whatnot could never play quite in tune. Guitarists could do it too just by ditching the frets and radiusing the fingerboard and string position just a bit. Learning finger position without frets isn’t as hard as one would think.

[@Patrick-857]

@@JohnMaxGriffin I agree with you to a point, however a fretless guitar is basically a completely different instrument, with it's own sound and set of strengths and limitations.

[@JohnMaxGriffin]

@@Patrick-857 Yeah it probably would be a very different sound. Wonder if that could be mitigated.

[@georgecovetskie6717]

Great Video. Thanks for sharing that info. If can add my findings about tuning, here is something I found when I'm on Bass with the rest of the guitarists. I have 3 basses and they are all good quality. I love great tone, especially on bass. I did all the setup on my guitars and basses and the bass was the most interesting. Doing the intonation, I have tweaked the adjustment so much that I get the 12th fret and the 7th fret both to lock the Peterson strobe dead on. Some extra ever so micro adjustments helped get the 5th fret also. Now I have all 4 strings giving me solid 5th, 7th and 12th fret solid strobe and the basses keep this setting for quite a while. ( Strings do age ) When I record in the studio and use my guitars, I find absolutely no fuss with any notes between them. When I am live with the other guys, I sometimes I need to ever so slightly bend some notes to make them sound like where together. We have 2 guitars and 3 part harmony so things can get crazy. I know they use a different tuner than I have ( I use Peterson ) they use that little round thing but we seem to be tuned together when comparing Open string to listen. When playing, things start showing up that make me work a little harder to make sure we sound right. I'm gonna try a sweetened tuning next gig on bass and see if that does anything to help. Thanks again for all you did here.

[@joemiller9856]

Agree! I’ve been using the Peterson sweetened guitar tuning for years! Especially useful when playing with a group where piano is a prominent member.

[@OneImperfectSaint]

I'm all for learning about new tunings. I'm glad to see another installment in this series. The Nashville tuning video really excited me for more

[@briancrabaugh6966]

I’ve been doing this for a while. I think the tuning issue can also be helped with a compensated nut. Most guitars are not intonated between the nut and the 12th. Trying this to help open chords on my acoustic. Great video!

[@Youtubemademeaddahandle]

I use a lot of open strings and tune the low E string by harmonic at the 12th fret. The rest are done by ear. Next, I tune the G string at the 9th fret to that. Then the high fretted t the 12th fret to the low E harmonic. Then I check the G string fretted at the 12th with the high E harmonic. I tune the A string harmonic to the G string fretted at the 9th to sound "sweet" (not an octave). This is the key to balancing. Then I tune the B string fretted at the 10th o the A string harmonic at the 12th fret. - which helps keep it from sounding sharp. This procedure balances to allow for good first position ("cowboy") chording and all along the lower octave of the neck. I believe the key is the A G and B strings balance. This can be checked by playing (0,12,0,9,10,0).

[@ericajohnson7535]

Line 6 Helix has an ability to adjust individual strings' pitches when using the tuner: you can specify in all the individual pitch values for every string.

[@PapaWheelie1]

I use insane and don’t bother tuning at all

[@geraldponce8336]

Get a compensated bone nut and the tuning issues are over forever. Feel like it has more to do with the deflection of pressing the strings down. Especially up in the first position. Compensated nuts are like a six saddle bridge at the other end of the guitar. It is like Intonating the guitar from both ends

[@TylrVncnt]

Van Halen exclusively used a “sweetened” tuning - flattened B string so that it’s a pure Maj 3rd with the G string. Sick sound with distortion Distortion extremely illuminates how well (and how NOT well) intervals are in tune

[@Patrick-857]

Yep. Distortion adds and accentuates harmonics. A "perfectly tuned" guitar can sound terrible with distortion, thanks to a combination of equal temperament being equally out of tune in all keys, and the guitar being a very imperfect instrument that can never be in tune on all frets. Unless you get those squiggly compensated frets. It used to drive me completely insane until I eventually realized I had to accept that I had to tune by ear for the specific chords I was using at the time and avoid the bad sounding ones. Limitations breed creativity.

[@barryjoslin432]

Been wondering about this very thing after buying the Peterson clip on tuner (amazing and worth it) and the Peterson pedalboard tuber (also worth it). Strobe tuning makes a huge difference. But I’ve always wondered what these “sweet” tunings are. Thanks man!

[@dotnex]

I almost forgot my clip on. It’s pricey, but great for acoustic gigs!

[@DanielC__]

Not sure what happened to them but earvana made a nut that helped immensely with tuning on one of my guitars. A 17 year old Line 6 Variax that's a fine instrument. I was lucky to get one of their first runs from Japan before they moved production to Korea. That earvana nut made a huge difference. I probably wouldn't use it on my vintage Gibsons or Fenders but it was a perfect match for the Variax.

[@ktownson]

I’ve used the Earvana on a Variax as well. I didn’t notice a problem when playing with an acoustic piano, but sure did when I started playing with an electronic piano where tuning was more precise. Before that I used to tune the B string slightly flat and instinctive bend it into tune when playing an open D major chord.

[@sweathe3819]

I've had a Peterson Tuner for a couple of years, and never really understood the "Sweetened" thing. Thanks for the explanation and the demo that you did. I've always retuned that janky G string to match the E-string G, now I know why that sounds better.

[@samuelharris4683]

I was taught to always tune up to the target note, never down, helping to eliminate slip. I just used the ACU sweetener for the first time, and besides sounding great on acoustic guitars, it solves my problem of the capo making the strings go sharp.

[@gregorypease213]

Interesting and thought provoking video. I've been messing with adjusted tunings for years. The problem with algorithmically sweetened tunings is obvious; every guitar intonates slightly differently up the neck, and so the tunings have to be adjusted to the guitar, its scale length, string gauge, fret accuracy, intonation. In a recording session, it might make sense to sweeten tuning for specific parts played on certain parts of the neck, but playing live, it's a lot fussing about for minimal payback. There's an old trope that 12-string players spend half their time tuning, and the other half playing out of tune. If we're very critical, I think that's pretty much true for all fretted instruments. There are days I find myself overly obsessive and cannot stand the tuning of ANY of my guitars, and days I just don't care so much. Can you guess which days are the more joy filled and creative ones?

[@ted.the.human1]

so does this mean the sweetened tuning could mess up recordings cause its slightly off standard?

[@coryharris7362]

Shouldn't the 2nd fret on the D string be used to tune the high E, not low E? Edit: Regardless if it was done “correctly” or not for that specific method, I appreciate Rhett making videos like this. I learned a lot from this video and will definitely be experimenting with different tuning methods. Thanks Rhett!

[@greg77hot]

NO

[@coryharris7362]

@@greg77hot if not, there's nothing controlling the high E pitch using that method. If I were using this method and tuning by ear, it'd be an endless cycle because the low E would need adjusting every time I get back to it

[@NathanArhur]

Yeah immediately went to the comments to see if anyone else caught that. sounds like the low E and high E are both out of tune for that segment of the video. oh well!

[@ak47dragunov]

yep, screws up the whole segment. Sounds bad

[@RhettShull]

You are correct, you should tune the high E with it.

[@thedaver8]

I use James Taylor's offset tuning in my Helix all the time! I think it's a great tuning system that solves problems with the lower frets.

[@Emceekaz57]

I often tune my low E string a few cents flat when I play open position stuff featuring lots of G chords. I find it makes the major 3rd on the A string sit better in the chord without being too noticeable when playing most other chords.

[@julianmetcalfe1070]

You made some great points for using and for where not ,there was definitely a noticeable change which can be dialed in for many songs ,like you said not all ,good stuff keep up the good work Mr Rhett

[@BrandonBames]

According to the late-great Mitch Hedberg, "sweetened" is a showbiz term which means "add sugar to."

[@fiddlefolk]

Great subject and explanation.... One thing that I find important with tuning is to never tune down to pitch but always up into pitch. The reason for this is evident as soon as you bend the string as it will drop in pitch. I believe this is caused by slack in the string is held by the nut binding the string until it is bent or played hard then when it releases, it is below pitch. Getting a guitar in tune is a huge topic and this might help with keeping it in tune. Thanks Rhett...Keep up the good work!

[@joethompson2910]

I always thought the same and I noticed while watching James Taylor that he seemed to not do that and would go above the note and then back down to the sweetend tuning, but maybe I just need to watch it again a little closer...

[@fiddlefolk]

@@joethompson2910 If you go down to pitch, the first time you bend that string, strike it hard, etc, it will go flat. if you tune up into pitch, it keeps the string under tension so it won't slip when you bend, etc...

[@Bubba-zu6yr]

“I’m gonna need as many guitars as I have harmonicas, honey”. “Why is that? You already have ten”, she says. “Because tuning”, I say! 😉😅👍

[@Bob-Whiting]

Yeah, yeah! That's the ticket! lol

[@Peyote1312]

She's cheating on you. She really thinks your harmonicas are gay & dorky.

[@trustmetrusty3169]

I purchase only burst guitars, that way she never knows when I come home with a new one.

[@pnomis]

@@trustmetrusty3169 I bought a guitar from someone recently. He said he had a clause in his will telling his wife that she must under no circumstances sell any of his guitars for the price he told her he'd paid.

[@trustmetrusty3169]

@@pnomis that’s great😂🤣😂

[@Gene_Cali]

My Peterson Stroboclip has just arrived and this episode has helped demystify the sweetening process. Thanks Rhett.🎓🎸

[@zandig666]

OK so I've been doing this using hrtz for yrs but i was a bit off you've helped bring it together Rhett thx !!!

[@gsbguitarsgsb679]

I bought a Peterson clip on tuner awhile back and was surprised at the additional tuning options available within a small clip on tuner. Tuning options for violin, mandolin, bass etc… then I read about the sweetener tunings and kinda stunned by it and also questioning the witchcraft of it as well. Definitely a new insight that I hadn’t intended or expected to involve myself in when I bought the tuner. All in all I would recommend the Peterson clip on or any other option they have for tuners. It’s worth the extra that Peterson has established as quality in tuning… lol… Thank you and good night… lol…

[@JDStone20]

I use the sweeted tunings on the Cherub clipon tuners and my Peterston StroboStomp VS-S, and the Cherub sweeted tunings are supposed to be based on James Taylors sweetened tunings, and the match up with the Peterson GTR sweeting tunings. I like the sweetened tunings, I think it make my guitar sound better.

[@johnnybourbon4823]

I enjoyed this video thoroughly…as a player for over 50 years, the impreciseness of the guitar has always made any tuning a compromise. Throw in playing with other guitar/bass players, it has always been a challenge to be in tune with yourself let alone with the other players. My main gigging guitars are frankencasters with Warmoth necks having earvana nuts. This gets me as close as I can to be in tune across the fretboard as much as I can. Great explanation of these sweetened tunings…it’s worth exploring more

[@andersf324]

35+ years ago I played bass Viola da Gamba (bowed with 6 gut strings and tied-on gut frets) in a 4-5 piece consort. We used the meantone temperament to play very early music (pre-renaissance). In essence this is tuning the 3rds rather than the 5ths as in modern equal temperament. What it also entailed is that I had to tape little bits of matchsticks to the fretboard for individual strings to have different micro tunings for the accompanying intervals to get the appropriate pitch ratios. Generally I think that pitches do not exist in isolation but in context either vertically or horizontally. What it meant in reality were some of the most ethereal sounds I have ever experienced. We never used vibrato, and I think that became popular later on to hide the imperfections of the the equal temperament. Of course, micro-tunings have been the norm in cultures other than the western world. Great content as always Rhett.

[@craigkidd9524]

Amazing stuff. I watched a great video of an English piano tuner who explains this very well. How you MUST tune by ear instead of a tuner on each set of strings.

[@b.rodclark7349]

I tune my guitars this way in addition to E A D G harmonics on the 5th & 7th frets and 17th & 19th frets followed by B & E tuning them to the low E 5th & 7th fret harmonics. By the way, those notes and chords delivered by the raw mids of those P90s stand out so beautifully to the ears... great video Rhett!

[@markmark8174]

I do those same chord progressions! They make the body resonate so wonderfully. I learned by ear so I don't know what they're called, but you can run those chords all the way up and down the fret board. My mom used to say it sounded like a waterfall. You earned a new sub!

[@cstony111]

I have been using that Peterson GTR tuning on the Strobo Stomp pedal . I love it, I trust it.Using it for about 5 years.

[@timhoughhough6370]

I'd never heard of sweetend tuning. But watching your video, it makes a lot of sense!

[@SeanKerns]

I do a "smaller" form of this on guitar all the time. I loveLoveLOVE the sounds of open G and C chords when they're in tune, so I often tune the B string by matching the 3rd fret on the A and the 1st fret on the B. And then I tune the high E by playing the E and B open, and tuning the E until it stops being. And then, if I'm going to use the open Low E, I'll tune it to the high E.

[@gimmickmusic8827]

To reiterate what Rhett said, Adam Neely has some incredible and informative videos on many different topics when it comes to music and the theory associated to it. I can’t recommend them enough.

[@dcthegreatest24]

Great episode! I tried the Taylor tuning a few years ago, and I agree with your points on it. Generally for any purpose I will tune where there is the least amount of warble in the resonance depending on what positions, styles and chords I'm using most.

[@Andreas_Straub]

The Peterson Tuning App and the sweetened tunings are really great! I have been using those for quite some time and there is no way back for me 😎

[@frodeleirvik]

The important question here is - like pointed out by others - what sounds best for YOU? Musical context is also a valid argument. I've been using True Temperament fretboard for several years and that does it for me, both in individual and group contexts. For guitars that lack this system, I usually sweeten the tuning by ear.

[@richbaumannsingersongwriter]

Great topic. The electronig tuner is a good start point. I like capo 2 with the low E open(drop E) and always temper my pitch to my ear!

[@rogeremmerson]

I enjoy your posts on alternate tunings and I've been using the Ry Cooder / Keith Richards 'five-string' for slide since the early 'seventies. Here's something else, though. Not so much a tuning but an alternate capo position is what I'm tempted to call the 'raised F#'. I learned it from the Northumberland singer/songwriter Richard Gardner in 2005. You reverse the capo and place it over the top five strings at the second fret. Using the D shape you can play E with a ringing double octave and a B drone that can sound like a twelve-string. Unlike dropped D, the block chords, other than the E shape, are unaffected by the relatively two-step lowered bottom string. Playing different chord voicings up the fretboard and utilising the drone potential results in a really full sound. I've written four songs using this system, two of which I perform in my solo set and one with my former band. I'd never heard of anyone else using this and wondered whether you had.

[@Kevin-the-Just]

I've gotten used to sweetening my tunings by ear. It's an imprecise process, varying from guitar to guitar, but it amounts to flattening the G and B strings slightly to account for string deflection under finger pressure. However, given that I still get annoyed by it occasionally, I think I might give the Peterson a try to get some consistency. Cheers.

[@stuartdocherty8409]

Because it has to be a peterson....? there are no other pedal tuners that allow offsets....?

[@nOpOrOpMoP]

I have the Peterson strobe plus hdc and that thing seems to have a shit load of sweetened tunings. I haven’t tried them all, but some of them actually worked pretty good, especially when recording certain parts of songs. The main thing I use is the artist tunings. There’s user tunings as well that provide offsets specifically for certain songs and I have enjoyed the EVH tunings, that’s pretty fun lol.

[@tjshultz89]

I've been using sweetened tuning but I never knew there was a name for that lol. I have a Gibson G45 and when I play with a capo (usually on the 4th or 5th fret), I'll tune to a C/G chord shape to get those notes in tune. Without doing that and just tuning to the capo it'll sound out of tune. I never had to do that before, but it probably has to do with the shorter scale length. Every other guitar I've owned had a 25.5" scale and I would just tune to the capo and it would sound in tune when playing any open chord from that position. But with the Gibson I really have to fine tune it to the individual note. It sounds great and I'm glad I learned that there was a name for it. Thanks Rhett!

[@dennisdougherty7538]

You are quite correct to mention the "imperfect" tuning structure of fretted instruments such as guitar. I don't know anyone (perhaps there are "bad eared" guitar players around) that would use a tuner app for equal temperament. It can not actually be done on guitar because of the frets but many a fine player will tune the strings to each other and not use an app. It would have been nice to compare that tradition to the sweetened tunings.

[@d.rowley5023]

Quick pro tip. When tuning strike the open string then the third fret to find a compromise. This immediately compensates for intonation and equal temperament

[@larsfrederiksen3005]

The "James Taylor" sweetened tuning works really well in my opinion (for standard tuning at least). low E: -12 cents, A: -10 cents, D: -8 cents, G: -4 cents, B: -6 cents, E: -3 cents Especially if you play a little 'hard' it works well, because when you hit, especially the lower strings, hard they are pitched too high in the attack. Also, it is really important to be consistent when you tune your guitar across all 6 (or more) strings. Do you tune at the "attack" of your string or do you tune it after is has "rested" a short while! Edit: Oh, I see at around 10 minutes Rhett tries that particular one :-)

[@KozmykJ]

I've found the James Taylor method works for me on some guitars and not on others. Why that is I can only guess at. The ways that the nut is cut, the actual accuracy of the nut placement and/or the accuracy of the frets ?? The same with the Kevin Ryan method. Works on some, not on others.

[@AllenGarberGuitarFun]

@@KozmykJ Offset tunings work on any guitar that has been setup correctly and intonated according to standard chromatic pitch first. You can apply any tuning offset to any guitar once this is done and the results will be almost identical on any guitar. A properly cut nut and an average, “non-extreme in either direction” action setup also help.

[@KozmykJ]

@@AllenGarberGuitarFun Hmmm no other variables possible eh ? Just 'Perfect' intonation, with straight frets . 🙄 I wouldn't argue the point. Others might ...

[@AllenGarberGuitarFun]

@@KozmykJ You miss my point. No solution is perfect. Physics don’t allow perfect harmony between all notes. My point is that the greatest guitar players of the last 60 plus years have used tuning offsets. They are free and they can be used on any guitar without need for modification. Zig-zag frets and the Buzz Feiten system are as much of a compromise solution that doesn’t yield perfection. Tuning offsets are just the easiest and best solution. I never said any solution was a “perfect” solution.

[@KozmykJ]

@@AllenGarberGuitarFun I did certainly misunderstand your first reply. I mistakenly took you to mean that these offsets could be applied identically to 'perfectly' set up guitars. As opposed to being applied as methods of mitigation of the various unavoidable imperfections. Mty bad.

[@alexiantwisty]

I tune the high e, then use the 7th fret to tune the B string to, then use octaves to match the rest eg 7th fret high e & 4th fret G, 7th fret B and 4th fret D, 7th fret G & 5th fret D, 7th fret D & 5th fret low E

[@tystrout6284]

I tried the first tuning you showed, the one where you tune by ear, on my prs se custom semi hollow and my guitar was already tuned like that. Perfectly in tune with the open string as well.

[@tystrout6284]

@rhettshull

[@mikaruonala2297]

FWIW when I started with guitar early 80s my pops who was a semi professional from end 50s to early this millennium explained his routine tuning. His band tuned A string to perfect pitch of the free dial tone from the phone line (happens to be A 440). Tune open E to pitch with A fretted at 7th. Tune D by taking harmonic tones from 5th fret of A and 7th from D, check its ok by fretting D at 7th and compare to open A. Same procedure for G string. For B string: take flute from the 12th fret of D and tune B by fretting at 3rd. Check it’s ok by open D and fret B at 15th. Tune e by playing it open together with b until they make a nice solid sound. Check all is ok by open E chord, open G at 3rd and 8th, get Em by barre. I have. I freaking idea what kind of tuning this produces and would have to measure the values but I’ve been tuning this way ever since. So perhaps I’ve been tuning wrong for over 40 years 😂

[@skyemoz6559]

Another great vid. After getting a new saddle on my 20 year old acoustic Luthier. Guitar at Maple Street Guitars(Great Shop) as I was having issues with intonation I bought the Peterson Clip on. It’s great and since I do different tunings it’s spot on. I do think the ACU mode is my primary setting but it does have a DADGAD setting. I definitely heard a difference when I was using the GTR mode on the acoustic. Was not good 😳. My bad 😉

[@zimmtec3118]

Luthier friend of mine (now sadly passed) went down this rabbit hole and built several guitars which were "optimised" (fret height, neck profile, string gauge etc) and only really worked with the specific tuning and setup they were built for.

[@deerfeeder2076]

wow, thank you for that. I have been doing this, as I'm sure others have, on my own without knowing why or anything other than the sound lol. Awesome info and demonstration.

[@rogerfurer2273]

Very interesting. Thank you Rhett. Back before digital tuners became affordable, there was something called a tuning fork. Usually at A=440Hz. I would use this to set my A string harmonic at the 5th fret, then match E string 5th fret to A string 7th fret. I would set the high E open to match Low E 5th fret. (All my "fret" terms mean harmonic at said fret.) Match D/7th fret to A/5th fret. Match G/7th fret to D/5th fret. Match open B to Low E/7th fret. (None of this works on a Strat with a wanger unless you keep re-tuning the A string--and all the rest of the strings each time you try to tune another string. My other guitar player would wait for me to tune up, then tune to me!) Now comes the tricky part; I'd double check that the open B would match the D string fretted on the 9th fret, and open E match the G string fretted on the 9th fret--and in this case I'm actually playing the note of the D and G strings, NOT the harmonics. Generally, if my intonation was set up properly and my strings were new and all stretched, my instrument would be in tune. As for setting intonation back in the day, I'd match 12th fret harmonics to 12th fretted notes, then recheck against then19th fret (harmonic vs fretted). I also had very little relief in my neck, less than a business card half way between the first and last frets. I bought a brand new Les Paul in 1973 and had to keep tightening the truss rod every 6 months for the first 2 or 3 years, then once a year until it was about 7 or 8 years old. It was my only guitar up until the 90s. I didn't get a digital tuner until the mid-90s, but when checking the guitar with the digital tuner, I found it to be perfectly intonated and in tune. How about that. P.S. I thought the standard tuning sounded just fine. If you play with a Hammond B3, your keyboard player will NOT want to adjust his tuning!

[@splashesin8]

I try to get it as tight as I can on every fret and with the harmonics at the twelve as well. I always have one little problem spot, on my acoustic. The D on the second fret B string, wants to go sharp if I use my ring finger on it unless I consciously try to press lighter on that. If I use my pinky instead there it's closer to being okay. Dave would probably say my fret board is chewed up. It kind of is. I'm trying to be more gentle... I keep my nails from cutting into it. The deepest groove is right there. Probably needs some work. That said I liked the first sweet tuning you tried even though it made your cowboy chord area like that. The whole rest of the way was so nice!

[@chrisgarver7904]

I recently bought a Peterson tuner and am just starting to work with it. I write and play on acoustic primarily and use open tunings on one of my guitars and C standard on the other. I have found the need to compensate when using a capo and on my Bourgeois which is tuned to open Eb.

[@tomblankinship4750]

If you’re hanging out on the cowboy chords (which I tend to do on acoustic) I find tuning each string to the 3rd fret really improves things.

[@schmargle]

Fascinating video. Thanks for that. I struggle with tuning all the time. When I was young, I figured it was my guitar. But as I accumulated more guitars, I realized it was either my technique or it was an issue with equal temperament. Now when recording, I tune the prominent chords in each song, and I think we all adjust single notes as we play…which is I guess why I don’t quite see the point in using a tuner or app to dial in “sweetened tunings” unless, I suppose, you have a hard time hearing that sort of thing. (Using a sweetened tuning always, like JT, seems to be pretty much the same thing-you’re optimizing for a few chords that you’re likely to use frequently.) Maybe the app or customized tuner would be helpful live, when you might want to tune by sight rather than by ear. But then, I’m not sure many of us would retune to a specialized tuning for a song or two at a live gig. Lastly, I would think that sweetened tunings would likely vary slightly from guitar to guitar (especially if they’re not all perfectly fretted and intonated), and player to player. So, for me, it seems like “sweetened tuning” is a name for what we all kind of do anyway. I don’t think having a preset on a tuner would be all that necessary or helpful.

[@Gearhart_Music]

I recently bought a Peterson Strobostomp tuner pedal and it includes the "sweetened" tunings as well.

[@averycriscitello3551]

Just tried this and its so nice. Literally my new favorite

[@johnmark7777]

I custom made a Strat with a True Temper neck (offset squiggly frets). The tuning is only a few cents high or low per string so you can play with other people and it's not noticeable as out of tune. Having all chords in tune on the neck including high fretted ones with open strings is simply wonderful. Plus, lead isn't that difficult on it either (for a slow hand like me).

[@latheofheaven1017]

I bought a True Temperament neck for my Strat and will never go back! It's consistently sweeter no matter where you are on the neck, as you say, and it's more in tune with any keyboards. Although I had a concern before I swapped the neck that my fingers would have to relearn where to go, in practice I found no problem right from the get-go. And so too for bending strings.

[@caixiuying8901]

I really want a True Temperament, but it really is just a more accurate Equal Temperament and some people confuse that with Just Intonation for some reason lol Multiscale Equal Temperament seems fucking crazy tho, I have yet to experience it

[@latheofheaven1017]

@@caixiuying8901 Yes, exactly - it's just making sure that each string as it's fretted, ends up precisely at the equal temperament pitch. But it really works. I'm not sure what more can be gained from multiscaling such a neck too - apart from ergonomic comfort.

[@AllenGarberGuitarFun]

Sweetened tunings are the answer that most great guitarists have used for decades and they don’t require squiggly frets or modifications and can be applied to any properly set up and correctly intonated guitar.

[@x3a3x3]

Old school (good) players knew how to tune the guitar to the key of the song, specially when playing an acoustic alone. I was taught that trick by my dad back when we didn’t have affordable portable tuners.It’s less noticeable on a quality well set up guitar, but with the cheap low quality guitars I had available in the 80’s when I started that was a must. Start with a E G or D chord in cowboy position and use your ears to get the best harmonious sound. It will work best on the first chord/ song key so you will have to retune it for a song in a different key. But if all you are playing or recording is one song give it a try, you might like it 👍🏻

[@douggraves6165]

I,ve been useing taylor tuning in my duo it helps the vocal sit better with the guitar and seems warmer

[@BrandonOutside]

I recently ran across some Grateful Dead behind the scenes/documentary videos on here, and there’s this funny moment between Phil and Bob while they’re tuning up. To quote the great Phil Lesh, “That’s close enough for rock and roll.”

[@tkd4uandme]

I like the idea of having the offset for the capo, as I have had difficulty with that, especially with a 12 string. This is definitely something you would have to set up to your style, and the type of chording you tend to use. Interesting topic.

[@stein0niets]

i remember getting my classical guitar (w old strings) intune with and without capo with a piano.. it was horror. i should have worked with these kind of offsets makes total sense

[@MrFlint51]

12 strings can not be intonated properly if they only have 6 saddles; the high and low strings in each pair need different intonation points. For example, the "high 5th string" should be intonated at about the same length as the "low 3rd"

[@thomkopal1740]

I use Peterson "GTR" sweetened tuning on my electric guitars, but then I find it sounds much better if I tune both the G string (3rd) and B string (2nd) slightly flat to that setting. I don't know if this is because of my heavier string gauge (11-50 for most), higher action, heavy handedness, or even nut slot height. But it works for me. It is easy to see how all players can vary in different ways. For those who care to get deep, I feel it is important to take time to explore your own personal offsets. After all, there is only one Rhett Shull, one James Taylor, one Richard Peterson, and one you.

[@DavidFell]

I’ll bet it is those factors you cite. GTR works well for me as in, but I play 10-46.

[@chadherring2790]

I don’t know if you’ve ever done this but I started as a bass/cello player with a heavy hand, when I played guitar, I realized I could get near semi tones by applying more pressure to the fretboard, particularly on the wound strings. If you use your ear and play around with it you can really sweeten up some chords. Definitely a good exercise in musicianship…. Cool video, really dig the more musical and less gear-centric stuff you’ve done!

[@dotnex]

I have used the iStrobo Stomps since they first came out. I still use them on my pedalboards, bench, and iPhone now. The Sweetened tunings are just that…sweet!

[@buddypop9358]

I use the JT sweetened tuning for finger picking. Great when in that application.

[@calebmunkirs9661]

I normally tune the g string down slightly and adjust the b based on how it sounds for a d chord. As long as it's intonated after being set like that, everything seems to sit well together

[@Phil_Hayes]

I have used the GTR setting on Peterson tuners for years. It sounds more musical to my ear. However, if the other guitarist is tuned with a different tuner….it’s like nails on a chalkboard. Rhett, I really enjoy your videos!

[@Dram1984]

This is key. It’s more important that everyone in the band be in tune to each other than be perfectly in tune. We always tune to the bass player and it works out just fine.

[@NotThatKraken]

It’s less of a problem when the guitars aren’t playing in the same part of the neck. As long as I stay off the bottom two strings, nothing I play is going to rub with the bass notes. In my groups, we all independently tune to an electronic tuner and pay a professional to keep the piano in tune. If I had to tune to another instrument, I’d choose the piano. The bass player can adjust to a piano tuned to A=442, but the piano really can’t adjust to anything.

[@castorkat4868]

then what good is it in a band situation

[@samuelj.rivard]

i just receive a couple days a go my first electric Saz Baglama... it actually have more fret and its really fun to play (iam a french canadian but i do love etnic music... mostly turkish music)

[@lobster4501]

I totally agree… I only play with five strings and all my guitars acoustics and electrics and I do some strange tunings…I had no idea this was a thing I have been doing this since 1975 when I was 15 it just was natural to me I had no idea

[@InfoWithheld]

I have never used a tuner for the issues you mention. After years of this, my "by ear" tuning is pretty much the GTR tuning (the second sweetened tuning).

[@Russell_Optics]

I use sweetened tuning on some guitars, but not all. My Music Man Cutlass I tune to the standard peterson tuning and it sounds good, I attributed that to the compensated nut that M/M uses. My PRS Vela and CE24 I tune the low "E" very slightly flat, and tune the "G" string to a "B" at the 4th fret instead of an open "G". Others, like the Dano 59nos+ SG jr I just tune standard and simply adjust by ear using open chords until it sounds right*. It really is a compromise.

[@NotThatKraken]

I have a couple electric guitars with the Buzz Feiten tuning system. To me, BFTS sound a little closer to just tunings in “guitar keys” playing triads and simple chords around the twelfth fret, but it’s a subtle effect. I use the BFTS sweetened tuning on those guitars. For my non-BFTS guitars, I use the Peterson GTR sweetened tuning. I think it’s slightly less dissonant for simple chords in the middle of the neck. Guitars are, as Rhett mentioned, inherently imperfect instruments, so complex chords are always a challenge for intonation no matter what tuning you are using. I primarily play live, so strings rapidly going flat from bending or just being in the lights are probably making sweetened tunings a bit academic, but I use them just the same.

[@picksalot1]

I use a tuner in general, as temperature can have a surprisingly large effect on string pitch. Then I tune by ear so the main key I'm playing in sounds good. So, I guess I use "sweetened" tunings. If you're interested, the "Early Music Sources" channel on KZbin has videos demonstrating a number of keyboard tunings that were used before Tempered Tuning was widely adopted. Some of them will have you scratching your head wondering how they were found acceptable. Thanks

[@AvenEngineer]

Rhett any chance you've listened to this on KZbin at 2x speed? The chords sound so different. The difference between regular speed and 2x of the Am at 5:06 is wild.

[@stein0niets]

a lot of players use tunings where the higher notes on the neck end up flat so they have some wiggle room underneath the notes (for solos). I love to flatten major thirds while playing by pressing towards the bridge (as like a static classic vibrato for example open A with 11th fret c# on the d string pressed down toward the harmonic). I used a sweetened style tuning for film music once but it was just two major chords shifting on the same strings (tuned the G down a lot and made a fretless basline).

[@TheFeelButton]

Oh that sweet, sweet tone tuning! Cheers Rhett!!

[@freq9939]

The video of John Fruscante and Anthony playing Under The bridge in Amsterdam on a boat playing an acoustic out of tune but the harmonics are interesting and even pleasing to me especially when he plays and sings the chorus the movement is emotional and powerful

[@TheZenguitarguy]

Buzz Feiten Tuning system is great. It requires a modified nut that moves the nut slightly forward by overhanging the fretboard very slightly. The offsets are in the peterson and work amazingly well. I believe John Suhr uses it on all of his guitars, and maybe Tom Anderson as well?

[@markjones2349]

One can easily use a PC tone generator and feed that into the peterson or any tunder for that matter to test for exact offset values or even just tuner accuracy in general.

[@LPCustom3]

I've been using Peterson's tuning for about 15 years. I think it makes my guitars more intune compared to what I hear in my head.

[@blackcreekmusic783]

Great video!! How I missed that they had a strobe tuner for iOS is beyond me! I purchased it before the video even ended lol! Looking forward to using this from now on.

[@denniskielton2447]

You could just get a True Temperament neck, preferably a Strandberg (I'm sure this will will draw fire haha) and then you have your sweetened tunings that work in every key. Not so well in different tunings, but they're currently making one for a sponsored artist that plays in drop C I believe. C-something at least haha

[@rottalmusik6563]

I have a Petersen Clip on tuner, and use the gtr sweetened tuning! I dig it!

[@Jimmy2Bits]

12:53 Again, I literally just got my StroboStomb HD from sweetwater yesterday and I tuned with the EQU tuning, then I tuned with the GTR tuning to see how they differed. some strings tuned higher some lower I did make sure to get the strobe to STOP MOVING with each tuning. The GTR tuning sounded best to me all across the fretboard. Tonight I'm gonna try out the EVH and the JMH. Maybe find some inspiration in those. There are 20 or so Artist tunings.

[@1967dooter]

I’ve used the James Taylor offsets since I read him talk about it in guitar player magazine about 30 years ago. It suits me because I hit the strings hard on my electric and the bottom E would go sharp otherwise. It also sweetens bar chords up to the twelfth fret.

[@edgeofeternity101]

I'm looking to buy a new clip on tuner today, and was thinking of the Peterson Stobe. I do own the pedal version but only use for standard tuning(so far). I don't use use my small pedal board so I've been using a Polytune clip on. Lately it seems to be using batteries way to fast. I would like to try some new tunings like a half step down or something lower than 440. Thanks for the useful info and adding some clarity to the tuning issues. I tend to stay away from technical equipment but I also want to improve my tone, so I'm going to try the sweetened tuning, and do it sometimes by ear anyway.

[@michaelkoenig6317]

I never knew that something like this existed but as a beginner I always tuned my guitar first with a tuning fork and then played some chords and adjusted the tuning. Mostly tuned the g string a bit down. Then someday I read that a guitar guy named Donahue did the same. Tuning down the g. Then I came across the tuning of James Taylor - I believe what his tuning is after that you play the strings with some impact. When you hit them harder the tuning gets higher. There is probably no right or wrong in tuning a guitar as long as you play alone, as as it’s in a way in tune, different if you play with others …

[@jrocket50]

Yes Rhett I will try some of these tuning I also use alternate tuning such as dadgad but how ever the sweetened tuning are very different than alternative tuning .

[@Matt-1d]

Sometimes when I play songs with a lot of arpeggiated A chords in open position, I’ll tune up the high E to sound better with the deflected E, A, and C#. I guess I’ve been sweet tuning without knowing it!