Do the Helix Drives Suck? HX Stomp vs a REAL Zendrive

[@briancassidy7510]

It sounds so close I wouldn’t worry about it. Absolutely phenomenal.

[@kittyhooch1]

I really appreciate comparisons like this. After it was tweaked I couldn't tell the difference. In the mix I'm sure it's impossible. I'm retired and can't see myself buying all this gear. I love being able to experiment with the Helix. Also updates are like Christmas.

[@matthinrichsen]

In a live setting, there's absolutely no way I'd be able to tell the difference honestly. Though listening in isolation, the "fizz" on the attack is slightly darker on the HX Stomp compared to the ZenDrive (around 6:50) - and I'd bet you'd find that even between different units of the ZenDrive they'd sound slightly different.

[@shawnmcginnis2508]

So close in tone I'll just stick with my Helix 😊

[@picksalot1]

Sounds so close, I couldn't tell which you were using unless I looked. If you compared 10 different real Zendrives (or other Effects Pedals) based on what I've heard, the differences between the real Pedals would be more than that between any of them and the HX Stomp. I think the same holds true for Amps and Speakers/Cabs, if you learn how to dial them in.

[@CorbCorbin]

It’s about whether the player is bothered or affected by the sound from their amp, while gigging or recording. I can sit and have a ball with the Stomp. Yet, when I have both, I always go towards the analog OD, Fuzz, Dist. Onstage, the digital versions of what I want to use, just don’t feel or sound right, compared to when I use the analog ones. I’ve tried very hard, to make a rig that I could just use all digital, or with just my amp behind me, like a monitor. Some shows, there’s no FOH, so I have to use the amp volume, and our own preamp for vocals. Like at practice, where I can get a modeler drive to work, but on a stage, the digital drives sound very different, depending on the setup. I just have an easier time adapting, and getting what feels and sounds great, with analog drives. I can go digital with any other effect, though I’m a Uni Vibe lover, so I like it in analog, if built well, much more. It’s still a mod that I’ve used a digital version of, and it’s easier to deal with than the gain, and gain staging.

[@richo144]

Try fractal drives, amazing!

[@jasonkucharski7411]

Just saved a ton of money again on not buying another drive pedal. 👍👍👍

[@michaelfolsom6654]

Awesome shout out for the MIDI Mad Scientists Club! Thanks, John!

[@literalghost929]

Sounds exactly the same! :D

[@thegermantomoeser]

Add some drums you wont hear any difference

[@trickfall8752]

I was listening to this video as I was dozing off last night and had no idea you were even going back and forth between Helix and the actual pedal. I'm not surprised by this as I own a Rat, KTR and an ODR-1 and their Helix equivalents are close enough for me not to bother using them.

[@Wadey1960CS]

Been waiting on this one since…well this morning. You’re videos are the best bro 🤘🏼🤘🏼 Always great playing and awesome tones. Interesting points of view and thoughtful questions

[@tomandmarley]

I bought a zen drive. Months later bought a stomp. After a side by side shoot out I sold the zen drive a week later because couldn’t hear that much of a difference. I I thought the price of the zen drive came close to that if a stomp which did waaaay more things. This video had me worried I may have made a mistake selling the zendrive but after watching the video I was happy I’d made the right choice 😅

[@scentia_est]

I did the same with my Boss SD-1 and Maxon OD 808 - in a mix -> absolutely no difference at all!

[@UXBen]

This has been my experience as well when testing drives like klon and 250 against the Helix-I had to tweak the knobs just like if you had 2 pedals you were trying to match. Pot tolerance seems to be the biggest contributor when it comes to variation, analog or digital reproduction.

[@valendis]

I always favoured the Stupor so I bought a SD-1 so I can free some DSP on my HXStomp but they sound so similar honestly it's not worth it if it's only for the sound.

[@myTubesTube]

Agree, what I really miss in the stomp though, is that s/r loop needs a block, so if you'd like not to have the external drive before the input, you lose any advantage as you need to use a block anyway. A good point for a future upgrade, I think

[@BillySoundFarm]

Title got my attention because I recently switched from HX to Kemper, And I really miss the HX drives so much... They sound like the thing. Kemper drives just sound like a Kemper.

[@angrybuzzy]

Do you still have the HX so that you can use them together?

[@BillySoundFarm]

@@angrybuzzy yes, but I'm trying to commit to the kemper all the way, at least for a time. Funny enough, I'm using an HX Effects as a MIDI controller for the Kemper, so I'm already toting what I'd need to use my Helix drives and modulated reverbs along with the Kemper, which is me a couple extra cables. But I'm too stubborn I guess 😂

[@dougbooth3161]

I actually purchased a Zendrive many years ago. I was on a "Dumble" journey. Big Robben Ford/Larry Carlton fan. I didn't end up keeping the pedal. Probably just didn't sound good with my amp. Thought that maybe I just liked the sound of other people playing the Dumble sound. I have owned a Helix since 2016. When the Zendrive came onboard I was very curious to try it. Paired with the Princeton amp I ended up loving it. And now, of course, with the addition of the Grammatico GSG amp, it has become my favourite. To my ears, it has that "thing" about it. It's in the top end. But it's a different kind of overdrive. I love it! And there are many other overdrives and FUZZ PEDALS (!!) that I absolutely love on the Helix. After almost 8 years, the Helix still sounds amazing to me.

[@davidmeatty5922]

I'm going to have to ask a slightly different question of you John. As you can use the amp distortion to its fullest without worrying about your overall volume, why would you need a drive pedal? After all, the pedal exists to give us the sound and some of the feel of a driven amp without cranking the amp right? So, unless I want something specific an amp won't do, like a fuzz or something, why not just push up the drive and master in my Helix and tame the volume with the channel volume parameter? Full disclosure, I do use things like the kinky boost and Minotaur in my presets. Most of my drive tones come from the amp sim though.

[@r0bophonic]

That can work especially since you can toggle between amp gain settings using snapshots. However, a drive pedal allows you to impart a character to the overdrive sound that differs from the sound of the overdriven amp.

[@smoothsavage2870]

Yea, i sometimes have thought about this myself. The amps themselves all seem to have Drive already. Almost seems like there's no need for a drive pedal. But I aint mad that i have them to play around with either! 😂

[@jhumbrac]

I'll use something like a tube screamer or klon to slam into the amp harder, or I'll use a timmy if I like my clean tone but want it to sound a little dirty, but I'm with you. You have all these classic sounds at your disposal in the amp. Why use a pedal that sounds like a Marshall when you can just use a Marshall?

[@CharlesStratton-oi8ef]

This was a great video and I am amazed that you got the stomp and the real pedal to sound exactly the same

[@musiclaw1486]

Line 6's Dhyana Drive sounds nearly identical to the actual Zen Drive! And, different individual Zen Drives each sound a bit distinct. Moreover, as the HX Stomp provides a massive collection of additional FX's & Amps & other useful features on board, the HX Stomp is an absolutely indispensable and worthwhile box. I love mine and my HX Floor. Great vid JNC!! Thanks for doing such a thorough comparison. All the best!

[@Tone2town]

So yeah John C gone down this rabbit hole. Zen Drive was a cool drive when I owned it for like 6 years. The only thing is when I wanted to use it like a hot boost it would get noisy. It's a very versatile drive but it does have a soft aggressive nature when pairing with other drives. Thus, this is how I wanted to do is use it like a boost with some drives to get the dumble subtleness. 🤯

[@Tino5150VH]

Great comparison and video as always! I like the HX Drives a lot. Unfortunately there`s nothing in it to recreate my main drive pedals like the 5150 OD or the Bogner Überschall. And it is very helpfull to have direct access to the main parameters in a live situation. I wouldn`t want to miss that

[@J.D....]

You could try a 5150 preamp=

[@chrisk3390]

The Line 6 drives may sound very close, but they don’t feel any bit as close at all. I’ve had an HX FX for many years and I use it in 4CM with an old Gen 1 Friedman BE-100, but run analog drives in the other loop of the HX with a Voodoo Lab Hex switcher. “Good enough” isn’t good. “Feel” is why we spend so much time and money on our gear. HX FX all day with the delays, reverbs and chorus sounds though. They’re fantastic.

[@jjbs58]

ya forgot the brass saddles or bridge bar . . . there is a difference there.... and with a Zen drive - Robben's PRS-es - wow who woulda thought . . . great post John Thanx saved me money to for a Zen

[@jackprice7828]

Great comparison John! I'm sure you know this. But I've found that it depends on the amp model as far as what drive sounds good with which amp to my ears. Really could barely tell any difference. I recently found a really good combination using the litigator with the minitor. Where as the Dhyna drive sounds really good with the AC30 model and Fender models.

[@elmolewis9123]

Great comparison. It would be interesting to have a faux comparison, where the Helix ZD was actually a second but hidden real ZD. I'd guess comments would be about the same.

[@dejct]

I couldnt hear any difference and im using headphones. I am really impressed by the helix version sounding so close and so good.

[@chadmurphyplays]

I did this same side by side with my King Of Tone and recorded it into Pro Tools to blind test myself. The difference is pretty negligible when you consider the cost of all those units vs an hx stomp. I think it's the swiss army knife of any pedal board. I use it for so much on my touring board

[@Uzurr69]

From 8:15 onwards they sound almost identical.

[@AlexVonCrank]

😮True! 👍

[@lastreagandemocrat]

I might have a tin ear, but to me they sound close enough to each other as to be negligible.

[@m4ssi86]

The feel is for sure different. I did the same test with the fm9 and my zendrive, the tone is the same but you can feel aomething different when you use the real one.

[@effektgeraeteinfo]

Yeah , you can definitely feel the hole in your wallet after buying the zendrive 😂.

[@swardmusic]

​@effektgeraeteinfo not with the hole the fm9 would have left ...

[@duartefaria7134]

I am using hx stomp with pedals in 4cm. I am using the pedalas in front and i use them to boost other pedals in the stomp. For the time being. It works very well, but i will substitute every pedal and i will use stomp just for fx after. Just need to get a mini dyna comp, a mini ts and jhs at+, 2 or 3 buffers and a expression pedal and i am good to go. I like drives in stomp, but i just want to have the pedals i use most. I already trade de valve driver in the stomp for a muse driver and is day and night, simply beauty, even the stomp got alive with a analog pedal in the circuit.

[@nicktshredz]

I use the JHS Notaklon and the HX Minotaur in my gig rig. Honestly they're identical and I can't tell the difference live.

[@ekuzy]

To me the zendrive is noticeably better. I can hear more of the high frequencies, specifically, the first few milliseconds after the pick attack

[@rocknrollboise]

I've been waiting for this! Thank you!

[@givemeajackson]

so close that only the sniffiest of corksniffers would care about the differences.

[@JDStone20]

Our brains and ears do weird things with sounds. I can have the exact same settings on an amp and pedal, and they sound great to me. Next day, the settings either need to be tweeked or changed completely, even after making sure my guitar is in tune and everything. I play with Solid State or Modeling Amps or Pedals, so their are no issues to be had with the vacuum tubes acting up for whatever reason. This happens whether through a speaker or through headphones. Best thing to do is either get a looper, or record a short track, and then A/B whatever equipment you are comparing, both live and recorded. As they said in Aliens (1986), "It's the only way to be sure", LOL!

[@brammanck]

Pls do the same with other devices like ampero stomp!

[@glyman1212]

Nice lines. Well phrased. Both so close but the real pedal has more presence.

[@ErebosGR]

The Zendrive is one of the simplest circuits (after the MXR Distortion+). If a DSP engine couldn't simulate that accurately enough, then it would have no hopes for more complex circuits like other pedals and, more importantly, tube amps.

[@kenthhamner2641]

Nice Lester! Looks aged? My R7 is 14 years old and the finish isn’t checked at all.

[@hartlee1160]

People have said that hx drives have some weird thing in the highs and all sorts of bs. Line 6 had dsp drives down since the dm4... that people also wanna crap on that as well. Lol if these people would forreal a/b or just watch videos like these These people cant point out digital when they hear it

[@user-wl7rb5ri5m]

Here’s my question to Johnathan. In the past the best overdrive came from a tube amp. Too much volume was the issue. If our models are accurate then why do we need overdrive pedals? An overdriven Marshall should be better than a Bluesbreaker pedal into a Twin or Matchless, Yada, yada, yada. The overdriven Marshall stack in my Boss GT 1000 sounds pretty darn good. So does the Boogie and the Bassman. I’ve owned a Boogie ( or 3 ) and a Marshall.

[@thekramer1097]

The thing is "the best" just out of tradition is stupid. The best mean of transoportation was the train until until the car or the plane came about. When we talk about music is all about what sounds good and that's it. And even that is entirely subjective

[@probusexcogitatoris736]

4:29, Good reflexes man!!

[@ehiricccc]

In this context I can listen a "scoopy" (aka C-shape eq) in the real pedal which gives a little more of clarity respect to the hxstomp which is a little more boxy. BUT in a live situation or in recording phase, where you could add eq in mixing, I can't be able to understand the differences.

[@wilfriedcwik3475]

You would fool so many people with the HX drive. I'm fine with the drives. In case I need it absolutely on point I would use my Tonex with a capture. No need to "loose" my preferred Zendrive somewhere on stage ;)

[@CorbCorbin]

Too bad this is almost nothing like he normally sounds. He usually sound ma more compressed, and the gain higher, with any drive he’s using through a digital fx/modeler. At a point, his gain tones, all sound the same, no matter the amp, no matter the Drive. It’s not about, can this sound like this? One should be resting attack response, volume roll off, and what the drive sounds like when it is. Stack it with another drive, or a boost, etc. There are other parameters, but it’s not just “can I make this HX Stomp, sound like a Zendrive, both set as close to the same as I can get,” then showing no other ways to compare. Change the variables, to show why the digital actually doesn’t work for many people, as a Drive, Fuzz, Distortion. I mean, I almost never only use one Drive pedal, or one Fuzz, for my entire gain sound. I have one always on, that is like a gain stage for the amp. I sometimes turn it off, to use combos of other pedals, with the camp, but I always have a second stage. I use a Fuzz, I have some drive, with the gain as low as possible, or up, depending, after it. Then I have a clean boost, if I need it for a solo. I usually use a drive pedal for a solo boost. I don’t want to sound like just a Zendrive, or SRV TS tone, or just a Fuzz Face, etc.

[@wilfriedcwik3475]

@@CorbCorbin Okay, reaction to variables of your playing is a thing. Reactions are not always like the originals but...there is a reaction of this digital models. With the Helix I am gainstacking or I use only the amp distortion with a Helix or Tonex Amp. An important point for me is that because of the non-existent stage volume nowadays I don't get the sweet spot of an amp. And just to mention another point...modelers are the same poison today as the pedals have been in the old days. Now they are more than accepted but in ancient times (I'm 57) when I had a Marshall Halfstack under my loft bed it was a bit different. I am not a tonesnob so I lokk what's in there and use what I like to my tasting. A good idea is to ignore the labels on those models and to decide with your ears. For me it is working.

[@stevelamb6720]

I thought it's doing a pretty good job and it does sound like Robben Ford.

[@bugsie857]

I think I prefer the Helix! Out of interest I'm trying to setup my guitar (again) and wondering what string height you usually have?

[@Awesomelvis]

I feel like all digital amps have a dry input sound and dry fx loop sound and feel to them from all the tests I've done and I think that's where some issues come up especially in isolation

[@CocuMagnifique]

Wouldn't obsess over this.... if it sounds good, it is good :)

[@JohnPaulSheets]

I personally don’t think so, not the ones I use at least. I always have an actual OD on the board anyway, but still.

[@harmonicseries6582]

Helix in general sounds a little bit downsampled (old telephone effect), that’s coming through in drives as ‘not crisp as the real pedal’

[@ggkohler]

I would like to see how you set button 5 to switch between loop and drive pedal on/off.

[@ggkohler]

*I'm a new user

[@ggkohler]

New user that might be selling an original zen drive...

[@ggkohler]

Can't bring myself to let go of my original TIM though!

[@ggkohler]

Have stomp xl though, so could use some input on setting up the buttons to the right actions. BTW, sounds identical to me at the 15:00 point.

[@swardmusic]

The Zen drive on the line 6 is pretty rough. Espesh since its my fave type od and i cant get it to be usable. 'tube comp' is the dark horse just fyi

[@Snookidoo1]

very close, ty

[@devDarkest]

So let me end this “HX Stomp sounds digital and doesn’t feel like a real amp” once and for all. Anyone who watches John knows this unit is the real deal. The Sag parameter introduces those non linear touch dynamics on nearly every amp model. The HX Stomp amp and effects models are near perfect in touch sensitivity and let you go a step further and customize it to no end. Most digital amp models before this never took this into effect. The Helix line of products were some of the first to introduce this parameter. Two. The models of amps and effects are the average of several units or near identical models of a vintage/special edition/otherwise unique versions of the unit. There are going to be differences between even real units. Profiling is a touch closer to the real things but getting this close with models is more impressive to me and should be celebrated even more for allowing the simulating of voltage sag. Edit: The biggest accomplishment of this unit to me apart from the modeling is the dual effects chain. Allowing the simulation of being in a room/stereo separation takes your tone to the next level. Whenever dad rock guitarists mention “in the room”, it’s a non issue with Helix products. Single chain patches sound horrible in a stereo setup (recording/practicing) but the mono summing is perfectly fine when going direct.

[@billrand4138]

be more intesting to hear them both through the front of a tube amp

[@swardmusic]

This.

[@onenotesolo256]

Yup. I’d have to go back and re-watch TPS, but I assumed that Ford was talking about how much he likes the Zendrive sound in the room out of his tube amp, rather than referring to the recorded sound of his mic’d cabinet, or a digital model of a mic’d cab through monitors / headphones (which I assume is what we’re listening to). Clearly they will sound pretty much identical in the latter, and even more so in a mix. Great playing as always JC.

[@billmurrell2576]

Very slight difference (I'm not even sure which one I prefer!) Don't think you'd be able to tell the difference in a mix.

[@Jonw8222]

In the room at louder volumes, I could probably hear or feel a difference, but for the majority of this video, coming through YT as an AAC or OPUS codec.. I couldn't hear much difference.

[@yoshowa]

Now if they would just give us the blues driver we could call the drive section complete.

[@LaminarSound]

I don't need to watch this video to know that no, the Helix drives do not suck. They're actually incredible. But Ill watch it anyways lol

[@treastonschmuckley5111]

A player might notice a slight difference but a listener would never care or notice. As long as the music you make with it is pleasant

[@neal_laugman]

After the last discussion about this, I bought a Warm Audio Warmdrive. Its just another worthless boost. Not even close IMHO. If you want the sound in a pedal, spend $600 on the real thing. Not.

[@musiccreation1198]

HX Stomp = impressive! Can you do a Zendrive comparison with the Fractal? :). Just kidding

[@sammyrothrock6981]

Like the Zendrive abit better

[@BobbyCulpepper.srv3fender]

A clipping circuit sound can easily be reproduced, its feel that has a big effect on quality

[@Tone2town]

Zen drive is cool just can get noisy 👍🏆

[@divtones]

Let's go

[@radicalagnostic]

i absolutely despise helix drives. I have a walrus eras for my drive tones when i need them, or i just use the amp model’s natural drive

[@scottheins]

They do suck, I'd say! The way to go is a hybrid board with quality OD pedals in front of an HX doing modulation/reverb/delay + amp tones. Your gig pedalboard from a few months back was on point!

[@valendis]

Just watch comparison videos man... they sound the same, I can understand prefering a pedal for the fact that you have a nice object or to free-up some DSP but they objectively sound so similar

[@scottheins]

@@valendis Have done head-to-head comparisons in my own bedroom with the Helix, HX Stomp, and real drive pedals across a variety of circuits. For those that get what they need out of the Helix/HX drives, I give my respect and regards. Personally, they fall short of the real thing by a sizable amount. I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum, but comparing for instance a real TS to the Helix's 808, or a real KoT to the heir apparent...it's a vivid difference.

[@Newnodrogbob]

@@valendisdon’t try to be reasonable. You’re never going to penetrate the thick layers of confirmation bias. I guarantee you he’s never had his friends set up a volume equalized blind test for him. Edited for grammar

[@RobCowie]

The Helix model sounds muffled to me compared to the actual pedal....like a sweater that doesn't quite keep you warm on a chilly Fall afternoon, but it's better than not having one at all. Don't get me wrong, I love the Helix stuff, and use it every day, but I liked the pedal tone in this particular demo better than the Helix model. Sue me.

[@LivinginLosAngeles-re5yx]

I think all gear, amps and modelers have their signature tonal tendencies. Line 6 stuff sounds like Line 6, Headrush stuff sounds like HR, Bogner stuff sounds like Bogner, etc. Not really better or worse, just different. All gear is perfect for someone. Different strokes.....

[@joemiller9856]

Yes close but one was a touch darker and more fuzzy - now listening further in the video when you are tweaking.. dang you’ve hit them really close John

[@rigelloar7474]

The muses are not moved by simulations . . . . . . .

[@Annunaki_0517]

This has to be the worst tone I’ve ever heard from JNC. I normally love the sound of your guitar but this one is not for me.

[@macmusica]

Shite eh.