DO THEY RESPECT RAP?? BTS "HIP HOP PHILE" FIRST REACTION!!

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[@leahvistro9393]

I think the issue with referring to BTS as “kpop” is that they are not interchangeable. You might be thinking that all “kpop” sounds like BTS. They don’t. BTS’ sound and songs are unique to them. Most people who react to BTS for the first time tend to think that this is kpop. It is a positive thing in a way to think that kpop is actually good based on BTS’ material. But if you listen to other kpop acts, you’ll realize that BTS’ music is unlike the usual sound commonly associated with kpop. Their music is not confined to one particular genre. It is so diverse that some just call the genre BTS.

[@neondream03]

up

[@hafsazahra973]

exactly

[@iammealexs9522]

facts

[@bellacandilada4145]

Agree.

[@Hisame_san]

True

[@axis1198]

Even the kpop world, like korea alone ignored BTS in their earlier years. So if someone says that BTS is kpop, bruh they didnt even really accept BTS as their own. Its only now like ever since their rise in 2018 that Korea started to acknowledge BTS as their own country's pride. BTS is a genre at this point. They wrote all their songs especially in their first few albums. But now, yes, they get offers from big names like Ed Sheeran or The Chainsmokers, they offer BTS produced songs. Its really awesome how far theyve come, and Ill never forget the people that did BTS wrong. Ive been a fan or an ARMY since 2014. I tell ya, they were really stepped over back then, edited out of variety shows and disrespected them. But nahhh, I believed in BTS capabilities, skils, and talents.

[@celeste1737]

💜

[@lulu_lovegood]

fax no prints

[@neondream03]

facts

[@ELLA-ji6yr]

they became famous in 2016 bc of fire followed by wings.

[@ELLA-ji6yr]

they were never infamous. they had a lot of fans and they were rookie monsters. they just never had industry and gp support

[@led_by_pied_pipers1530]

the reason i don't describe bts as kpop is because they've transcended that. it's not a box or a label that fits them anymore. what they're currently doing goes beyond that. firstly, kpop doesn't actally exist, the western media lazily coined the phrase to pretty much any sound coming out of korea. which is why you still see some people describe joke (by rm) or daechwita (by agust d) as kpop. it'd be the equivalent to koreans grouping eminem and taylor swift together and calling it A-pop (american pop). taylor swift started out as a country singer but u wouldn't see anyone describe her as that today. bts started out as a hip hop group but then debut as an idol group. and even though there are many similarities with other idol groups, bts has from day one operated in such a different way you could clearly see how they deviated from the rest of the industry. i would call bts a genre hopping and genre fusing pop group because that's the label that closest fits them.

[@jennd1298]

The TS reference is spot on.

[@ruthfischer7615]

I agree with you mostly. 💜 Have you seen bby gang mag's videos? They explain something about the music in South Korea. The video "BTS vs. KPOP" is the one you should maybe watch (it explains the topic far better than I ever could) That said #TheThirdErnest uses the word Kpop for Idol music which is not really correct and cofuses the topic even further.

[@SapiaNt0mata]

no, they haven't transcended Kpop. they're still Kpop. and it's funny that you say "kpop doesn't actally exist" when it does. it's Korean popular music = Kpop in short. in Korea they even have a word for Kpop = keipab = 케이팝 there's even Korean wiki for K-pop and it says it's short for Korean popular music. copy-paste the Korean word i typed in google and look the search results. some articles even have K-Pop in the headline. it doesn't matter if BTS started out as a hip hop group but then debut as an idol group. they're still in Kpop box. they made auditions or were picked selectively, were trainees, debut as idol group like any other Kpop idols.

[@led_by_pied_pipers1530]

@@SapiaNt0mata i know kpop stands for korean pop which is why i made the reference about A-pop standing for american pop. kpop might be the box that closest fits them in some regards but it doesn't make it accurate. butter, dynamite and permission to dance are in english and in many ways sound more like western pop music rather than traditional kpop music yet when it came to categorizing these songs they were often in kpop sections. why? because bts are korean? well why doesn't bieber, adele, sheeran etc get the same treatment? i mean, brit-pop is a thing right? and why not create canadian pop? my point is that the kpop label is inaccurate in that it limits the description of who they are, not where they came from. they went through the ringer like other idol groups and competed against them and in korean awards categories are still grouped with them which is fair enough. but in a global sense they're more than that.

[@led_by_pied_pipers1530]

@@ruthfischer7615 i have and he did a great job of breaking everything down. and it made me feel like bts built on what came before them and represent all the good/ideal parts of the idol music industry without all the negativity that came with it. what i took from that video is that bts became the new mold for what the modern artist in the korean idol industry should aspire to be. because even though they had the same process in terms of training and audition they were almost encouraged to be authentic, flawed humans from the get go which kinda goes against the whole perfect idol image. but bby gang also made that video before bts's english releases. i dont know if he's done any videos on that but it would be interesting to see if he also thinks bts should remain in kpop categories with their english songs.

[@SnapCracklyPop]

If I love Adele, am I a British pop fan? If I like one Garth Brooks song, does that make me a country music listener. I listen to BTS, but suddenly people I know think I’m into kpop by showing me kpop stuff they happen to see. I told them, I am a BTS fan and I didn’t even know the stuff they show me and they themselves don’t know who they are. They just see that they’re korean. I don’t suddenly listen to all kpop. I’m all about the artist and BTS speaks to me and the stuff they make remind me of the music I grew up listening to. That’s just my story.

[@marinachao3179]

Yes, exactly! I agree with other comments saying bts is not kpop because it's different than other groups, but apart from that, i think the biggest problem is this segregation of all these asian groups into a peculiar category when "kpop music" is just music. I dont ser americans saying "australian group" or any other country other than asian countries

[@RS-oy6bz]

It would be a good idea to not dwell too much on 'lead, main' etc In BTS every member is right up there with their own styles. That is what is special about bts. The 3 rappers have their own albums and vocal line have their solos. One can have personal favourites but cannot honestly deny the talent of others in vocals and rappers. In dancing, yes, we can say jhope, jimin jk and V are better.

[@RS-oy6bz]

No, condescension and ignorance makes one generalise. Especially with bts it is a total disconnect with their training, debuting, and rise. Delicious irony. An industry which shunned them, tried to crush them is now known because of them. Here are some differences. 1. Other groups had/have huge number of trainees from which they select. BTS was grouped/selected already with more or less the same people. 2. They were underdogs from a small, cloutless, company with limited finances so difficult debut with numerous roadblocks from the big3 of kpop. 3. THEY had the freedom to make their own music, write their own lyrics unlike other groups. The only condition was that they write about their feelings. 4. They were not helped by any push from their company on and after debut, because of lack of clout and finances. So they were not instant success like other groups. They worked their way up supported by ARMY. Thus this bond exists. I could write more, but not even sure you are going to read.

[@user-cb7mq4wb1u]

I totally understand where you're coming from and that's also the reason why I believe BTS has K-pop as part of their identity (as they took some influences) but also because of what you said it's not what defines them. They are unique to the industry. I just subscribed to this guy's channel but I really hope he reads comments like yours that express why we feel this way. I don't know how I feel about people constantly dismissing what makes BTS different

[@RS-oy6bz]

@@user-cb7mq4wb1u yes. And honestly speaking, No more Dream is not cringe. If you say it is then you have just superficial knowledge of the song without acknowledging that a group of teenagers debuted with a song calling out to the adolescents to stop living the dreams of family and what society prescribes. How could he call the song cringe? 🙄

[@user-cb7mq4wb1u]

@@RS-oy6bz Yeah Sure they were dressed a certain way but the genuineness of their messages have never changed. They make and release music of what they want to say at that time and it still persists currently with their latest album BE

[@marylee2809]

@@RS-oy6bz No more dream is one of my fav!

[@museofwind9004]

@@user-cb7mq4wb1u Kpop is industry from which they come, that's all connection BTS have with it. They are above kpop for a few years already

[@DontSigh]

The problem with your continued emphasis on "kpop" is that you're taking what bts does and extrapolating that to the whole genre/industry when you really can't do that because part of the reason for bts' success is the way they differentiate themselves from the rest of the kpop industry. It's not that bts don't do many of the same things as other kpop groups do, it's that they also deliberately do a lot of things differently. Not to mention they're more successful than most of the other kpop groups combined.

[@user-bt9fd8zz3d]

This is the best explanation comment I've seen here.

[@ystrw]

Well said! Speaking of combined, there was a chart of the most streamed Korean acts on Spotify. On one side were BlackPink, NCT, Twice, Exo, Red Velvet, Seventeen, and Stray Kids. Very popular K-Pop groups, these, with a total of 15.4B streams combined. On the other side was BTS in their seven-member glory, with 15.2B streams. :)

[@MaunzesKarton]

Everytime someone says "Oh, they are KPop" it feels like an insult to me. Because people simply look down on KPop because its "asian" music and they "cant have any talent" and they "look all the same and look like girls".....i hate it so much.

[@luzbelenencinas1058]

the definition of a rapper is the one who write their own lyrics, RM, Suga (aka AgustD) and Jhope are true rappers. That is the reason why we say that BTS is not Kpop. the Kpop idols are just performances, they are great at dancing and singing, but they don't do their own music. In Korea there is many artist that aren't Kpop, they are into the alternative, and hiphop side. Like the ones that RM mentioned in their part of the song. Plus RM and Suga came from the underground Korean hiphop scene.

[@eveyy_xo]

I always think about how if black rappers, especially women, didn’t write their own lyrics they would be ridiculed and not taken seriously. But then you have all these Kpop stars who are the “rappers” of the group who are just given what to rap and they’re so popular. Like, just because you can somewhat deliver a rap, that doesn’t make you a rapper. A black person could not get away with that, let alone become popular.

[@luzbelenencinas1058]

@@eveyy_xo Exactly, I grew up listening to hip hop thanks to my brothers, but kpop fans think that because their favs rap fast they are already the best rappers in the industry, when the reality is that they are performers, who are given songs to perform, as simple as that. Unfortunately they will never accept it, and they will keep saying that their favs are real rappers.

[@bbwalk100]

ITA, you are not a real rapper if you do not write your own lyrics.

[@Lilithnunacarrot]

Suga actually meant, when he was young he wrote the *SIXTEEN BARS* on the corner of his textbook. 16bars not 16 years 💜 Thanks for the reaction

[@user-cb7mq4wb1u]

A good video explaining BTS vs. Kpop is the video essay by the channel bbygang. He makes great videos that I recommend people to check out and evaluate what they think. I took some notes as well when I first opened up to BTS. I think the reason that phrase was coined was because it's funny how BTS is the lead representative of K-pop when they clearly were showing signs of artistic independence from the beginning and even before they started, along with receiving criticism from the own industry they are supposedly "in". I think there's differentiated opinions but yeah a label BTS has is K-pop but K-pop is not what all BTS has. You can call them a pop group. You can call them a hiphop group. K-pop is not the sole label BTS has. It does NOT define their identity, but it is part of their identity as they took influences of K-pop and made it their own at that period and this period of time. And with the years, they've grown a diverse and solid fanbase of all genders, ages, nationalities, you name it, that are proud of BTS's authenticity and lyrical/production work. In the end BTS don't care what people call them and you can find the guys mentioning this quite a bit as you explore their discography. Isn't it also funny how they started with the genre that is kinda most notable for showing authenticity? Think about it for a second. Anyway to each their own. Nice reaction P.S. Their first debut song was not superficial. A group talking about the educational system and asking their peers to think about their dreams, think for themselves for once, calling them hypocrites as adults/society force things upon the youth says a lot about what kind of artists they are from the get-go.

[@joaniewwh3502]

technically-speaking, i get your take on bts being kpop. truly. made me wonder too when i was new to bts. it's just that there's a history of bts being shun out of the kpop industry. hence, armys can get protective. there are videos out there showing the journey of bts and their unique approach then to rising to this success that's never seen in kpop which had actually been around for decades but never breaking through like bts did. ☺️ i'm happy you're checking out their non-mainstream songs. 🔥 i'm here for it. 💜

[@crystalaxe1212]

Yes, their first couple of MVs were cringe but only because of the image that was projected. Even BTS now cringes. But NOT true about it not having a story. In fact, they had more to say in that song than any other at that time, which strongly resonated with the youth. If you reviewed the lyrics carefully, it was an anti-establishment anthem for the youth, and especially for youth in korean society. How dreams are held as collateral for the expectations that the society places on young people. If I had heard that song/read the lyrics when I was 15, I would have been floored.

[@JackInTheBox0294]

What?

[@JackInTheBox0294]

music has no gender and age,if you didnt know about that Remember

[@sugasmeow]

@@JackInTheBox0294 what?

[@JackInTheBox0294]

@@sugasmeow I meant what I wrote

[@sugasmeow]

@@JackInTheBox0294 it just doesn’t make sense.

[@jerricaallen1467]

“We on”bts most underrated song rm went crazy!!!

[@JackInTheBox0294]

Yeah,also "Jump","Boy in luv","Sea","Louder than bombs","N.O."🙂

[@chimchimexcuseme]

@@JackInTheBox0294 yesss.. All these easter eggs need to be found

[@jesshenriquez7628]

BTS started as hip hop group. Watch their story. And RM & Suga was a rappers on underground scene before be BTS. In fact, they got many haters because that, for leave the underground scene. BTS really loves the hip hop music and movement. They demostrates respect in every single time they can do.

[@elinapsychcyphers]

Omg thank you. I wait the same thing! This guy is so far from the basics of BTS

[@MariaChavez-ey5sr]

BTS rap line is very respectful of the history of hip hop, especially since they came to the US in 2014 for the reality show to learn from the west coast rappers like Coolio and WarrenG. The collab with RM and Wale is amazing and Suga’s collab with Epik High just soo good. The rap line is so so good, if people can get over reading captions.

[@c4ordchick]

Man listen, kpop as just Korean music, just like American music is American music, Spanish music is Spanish music, French music is French music. It doesn't have to do w/ a specific genre anymore, pop doesn't always mean bubblegum pop, pop=popular music of whatever culture it comes from. And we should remind ppl of this.

[@mrjkandot7455]

but koreans have classical music and trot music a traditional music and underground rappers ... rap music hip-hop music the American music and Spanish music and French music isn't all pop right?? same as korean music

[@LynnHermione]

not really. kpop is idol music. BTS do idol music sometimes but they also do WAY more. bts isn't kpop

[@user-xr9yo3ci6v]

RM in an interview said "We don't want to limit this music or our heart to this boundary called 'K-pop.'"

[@alfagonzalez8758]

At this point if BTS themselves said they weren’t KPOP… The Who kpop industry will go down because BTS is carrying that music industry on their shoulders 💆‍♀️🤷‍♀️😏

[@owedawn76]

As someone who is a tad bit older, okay maybe more than a tad bit lol, I respectfully disagree with your comment about only in Korea do you see the trainee system where they are trained for years and then released (debut) to the public. Not sure if you are old enough to know that actually the "trainee system" or lack of a better term was originated in Mowtown. Obviously it wasn't to this extent that we see in Kpop, however it was used as a model for Korean companies. According to wikipedia, it was called "artist development." Mowtown artists were groomed, dressed and choreographed for live performances, even participating in "annual package tours" (training sessions) with more experienced artists to help the younger artists hone their craft. Also think of the boy groups such as New Kids on The Block, NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, New Edition, and so many more. Their "trainee" time may not be as extreme as Kpop, however my point is it's not new in Western Culture. Actually it was Lee SooMan, the CEO and founder of SM Entertainment that honed and popularized the trainee system. He saw the potential from watching New Kids on The Block in Korea and its effect on the Korean teens at that time. He labeled it as part of a "concept labelled cultural technology" when he started his company.

[@puzzywoo]

I would add Disney. It may not be a "trainee system" but look at how many modern American popstars started off on Disney shows from Britney, Justin and Christina through to Miley, Ariana and Olivia. There's a direct line from child TV star to popstar in the US.

[@puzzywoo]

Also, I just remembered the BRIT School - a performing arts school in the UK. Loads of British popstars went to school there as teenagers including Adele, Amy Winehouse Jessie J, Katie Melua and many more. Again, not "trainees" but receiving training in singing, songwriting and performance from a young age. Nothing I've mentioned is the same as the intensive K-Pop training system, but the idea that all of these Western popstars have no training prior to getting signed is totally wrong.

[@ystrw]

That's exactly it. Eric Nam addressed this in an interview, about eastern music being 'industrialized'. His response was that, while eastern music is an industry and does rely on a particular process, he feels the west likes to ignores the fact that western music is also an industry, and uses a particular process to produce music. His conclusion was that he gets really annoyed when the west criticizes the east for having an 'industry', because: 'Who do they think we learned it from?'

[@girlwithluv_and_ugh9975]

👏👏👏

[@KayMin93]

thank you !!!!! im also a bit older (41) ...and that thing is not new at all lolllll

[@tokyopt]

Their first song is not cringe. They HAD a story, they HAD a sound. Hiphop lover was released less than a year later: they didn't suddenly found 'this' sound. You need to talk about what YOU know, and make less assumptions about what you don't. Quick question for you to think about: is Butter a kpop song? Is My Universe by Coldplay a kpop song?

[@WiseOwl_so_1d_like_to_think]

Have you seen their Born Singer LIVE performance (compilation of 2015, 2017 stages)? (Based on J Cole’s Born Sinner). I think of it as the companion piece to HipHop Lover. It captures the finding of their Voice & Character.

[@pamelajbarber4819]

@ReneidKlein , I just looked through all his reactions and did a search. Couldn’t find it. Do you have a link?

[@pamelajbarber4819]

@ReneidKlein , aahhhh……..that makes sense. Would like to have seen it. I don’t see many reactions to that particular one. Thanks for checking.

[@WiseOwl_so_1d_like_to_think]

@ReneidKlein - Thanks for checking. At least he’s seen it.

[@MinQuinn83]

I disagree with you about their first video. I actually like their old songs. yeah maybe they weren't as experience but they did have what it took to get to where they are now. Otherwise they wouldn't be. It just that people react to their newer songs and expect them to be just as good. But like in everything practice makes perfect and they started good and became great. I still recommend you listen to songs by Agust D (SUGA). Thanks for still reacting to BTS😁

[@isaiahkvelez]

The flow at 6:21 is J Cole’s flow from Mr. Nice Watch from The Sideline Story! 😤 I respect the way he pays homage to him after just mentioning how much even his early music means to him. It’s like using the flow is proving his point if you know Cole’s oldies.

[@smartgirlsmartgirl6555]

You've been watching too many after school specials. How did Simon Cowell put together One Direction? How do you think New Kids on the Block was started? How do you think Nsync was put together? Just becuz BTS looks different than English speaking singers, doesn't mean they are any less. My job use to be, flying around the country looking for talent for major music companies. We use to dream about finding a group as talented as BTS. Sing, Dance, Rap, Write & Produce their own music. Also, BTS has a completely different story than other Korean groups. They were given freedom to write & produce. Big Hit was nothing back then. Big Hit was this itty bitty Indie company, with NO Pull with the industry at all. They were teetering on bankruptcy. BTS started with nothing & they worked their asses off. 12 to 16 hours days. BTS was hungry. Like I said, their story is one of no money, hard work & hardship. They are different from other groups that came from the Big 3 in Korea, where the Big 3 had all the support, money & power. Yes, BTS is a Boy Group but their path was different. They didn't live the same lives that other groups lived. They were and are the Grinders! They will out work you every day.

[@user-xj2mu1vk2f]

I love this song, I love this group, each individual. I thank the fates that they came into existence. ❤❤❤❤❤❤. I also love HOME FREE and NATIVE American music. HOME FREE is an acopella male group. Also fantastic!!!

[@feistybelle8073]

BTS: undergone trainee period but they were picked up from different failed auditions by their struggling company. Other k-pop group: from a hundreds of trainee only few will be left to form a group. BTS: even from their early days up to now, they were free to explore their talents in writing and producing their songs, conceptualizing their dance choreo with the help of their staff, they were encouraged to write their own feelings and experiences. Most of their music based on their own experiences, their pain, their struggles and emotions that why it's relatable to any age bracket. Other k-pop group: they have in-house producers, writers and choreographers, all they have to do is practice the song and dance choreo given to them - most of them do not have input on their songs. *But somehow, as they've seen BTS progress and development - they are now encouraging also to follow BtS like wrting their own music etc. BTS: came from a struggling company (but now, became the biggest company) that has a motto - music is for healing. BtS music talks about issues like mental health, love yourself, it's ok to fail, questioning the educational system of korea, to be strong etc. Their song even their debut song has a message. (I don't know you find it cringe, but a lot of youth catch the song's message, it resonates to them and somehow help them in a way) Other k-pop group: typical songs like love song and others but do not dwell on issues that are essential BTS: explore different sound from different culture and background (they have songs with a touch african sound, etc). They're not afraid to take risk and try different sound. Try different genre. Other kpop: somehow moving towards the direction of BTS in terms of music, sound etc... BTS: they have solo songs and encouraged to explore their individuality as an artist but when it comes to getting projects like model for Louis Vuitton and or advertisements or to promote some brands - you have to get them all, no one should be left behind Other kpop group: the famous members are the only one getting projects for an ads or model to a certain company or brands. BTS: the passion for music is 200%, their goal is to touch people with their music Other kpop group: dream to become a singer / performer .... too sleepy now to write more...

[@ystrw]

BTS: part-owners of their company, with input to major decisions. Other K-pop groups: Do as they're told and don't make suggestions to their label. (Some have been dropped from the group for daring to speak up.) BTS/Bighit: Created an entire social media network to interact with fans whenever they want (and have time). Other groups: Interact with fans if and when the label okays it. BTS: Take personal responsibility and apologize when something problematic occurs. Other groups: The company will release a statement in its own good time, and the problematic idol will say whatever the company tells them to. Bighit: Takes very good care of its idol groups and treats them with respect as people. Looks after mental health as well as physical. Other groups: What a revolutionary idea. (The multitude of stories of idols abused by their labels make me sick....)

[@Random-qi3vv]

@@ystrw Pnation and KQ entertainment are good to their idols. The big 3 are dying. YG would die once Lisa leaves BP. SM is already on life support. JYP is doing good and have improved on a lot of facets.'. HYBE is flourishing.

[@LynnHermione]

thats not true, what failed auditions??? all the members auditioned for BH, the only one who didnt was JK. dont spread misinfo.

[@Dashomin]

“DO they respect hip hop” Of course they do. RM suga all grew up listening to rap RM started rapping since 13 in the underground hip hop scene Suga would skip his 2 dollar lunch in order to save up enough money to buy and MIDI like a machine that makes beats. He often skip his 2 dollar lunch or his 2 dollar bus ticket because his family is vert poor. He would make a lot of beats to sell it but he said often times he get scammed meaning he sent the beat but don’t get the money. Jhope grew up dancing in the hip scene he won many awards and won an world champion competition in the national level. V came from a farmers family his father said if you grow up doing music you should at least know how to play instrument so he grow up doing saxophone for 7 years.

[@MsSaby97]

I have an honest question for you: Do you then consider One Direction, Little Mix, 5th Harmony also kpop? Because it is the same for them except they aren't Korean. All those groups were individual singers who auditioned, were put into a group, traineed and then signed under a lebel and started releasing their songs. And the fan culture is also the same. (I don't care if you call BTS kpop.. for me they are just idols and artists, because that is what they call themselfs). But saying the whole trainee system and culture is unique to kpop isn't true. Because with those 3 groups and kpop groups the only difference is the language.

[@Umla80]

or elite athletes you scout and train them young, and even in America you have similar just look at Disney and all artists they trained since young heck even saw a documentary about Motown Records back in the 60s training their artists in dancing, singing, etiquette and more.

[@heyoo.-.360]

the whole kpop culture IS different but you are right there are some similarities to other groups outside korea. and bts is kpop but they also belong in other categories too and thats the cool thing about bts

[@radiaharahman1741]

I totally agree 👍

[@moonray61]

I would like to know when or where they ever referred to themselves as "KPop." BTS talks about the idol/kpop industry, but they were never the ones calling themselves kpop. They've said that they don't mind the label; they have also said things like not wanting to be restricted to it and called their genre "BTS." If BTS themselves and Koreans don't think BTS exclusively applies to the KPop industry, then maybe you might want to reconsider how you see them.

[@mapsoul507]

Bts is more than kpop...Now BTS IS THE GENRE

[@nijokeem]

I would say, if you look into the history of NSYNC and Backstreet Boys. They also audition for a label, had Lou Perlman then paid for vocal training and dance lessons they then debuted. Many American labels also follow this structure, it’s just less known. Heck you can even consider the same thing for 1D. Those guys auditioned as soloists and Simon Cowell put 1D together. Not everyone is the “star” they are today, many audition, or participate in talent shows or whatever, get scouted by a label, label gives them the tools to create their debute. It’s not strictly a Korean thing, we Americans just ignore the fact we do it as well, because we want to see it as “foreign” But, the Kpop/K entertainment industry is based on the western entertainment industry. All have to have some sort of talent to make it, people act like the trainees are nobodies, that are magically schooled into talent, but no they are just talented kids who go through training just like an elite athlete would starting from a very young age. It’s tough and if you can make it, your one of the few, and if you make it past the 7 year contract, even rarer.

[@payalsrivastava20]

You even appreciate them with condescension. The world doesn't revolve around you or the west. The first SONG wasn't cringe. Maybe their projected image was. It was social commentary that resonated with the youth. Without cultural context, you are simply considering something cringe based on how it LOOKS to YOU. They literally fought their way through every roadblock, stereotype people in the west have labelled them with and the prejudice. But anyway I don't think you read your comments really or you'll really try to learn the cultural context you like to invoke every so often to constantly box them in your narrow stereotype. People have said it enough.

[@chimchimexcuseme]

Brooo.. Their debut song n we are bulletproof stuff! I found it pretty coool when i saw it on 2014! Their style probably felt eeire 😂 but THE STORY? They had a lot of stuff to say that resonated with me and made me their fan even though i was pretty new to korean music.. Their message n the song production is what caught me! I would disagree with that part. But yes they were young n trying to act all cool😂 they cringe whenever they see their old videos 😂

[@farihatabassumhaque2408]

Your thumbnail is very manipulative. BTS has always been a hiphop band. They started their career with hiphop. Slowly they started making many genres of music.

[@dalismadonna509]

So when BTS was first starting, they went to LA and they were properly introduced to the culture by Coolio. Although even before that the members, especially the rappers were inspired by all these different hip hop artists but the meetings with coolio have had added a layer of a deeper understanding for them. He was actually drilling them hard and he has instilled what hip hop as a culture means for millions of people out there, he also used to give them assignments regarding hip hop history and discussed its monumental moments and different aspects with them; from how public enemy uses hip hop to make sociopolitical commentary to how the "Parental Advisory" label come to be.... They also have had the chance to learn a bit of beatboxing which was fun to see. They also spent a day with Warren G and RM, later on, has released a song with him. And I personally feel like those days in LA have taught them a lot about hip hop from a broader perspective.

[@flovonnejohnson707]

Not only that but they go to see Warren G's hood. My family is from the area....and they actually formed a connection with him..... Not as strong as with Tony but still lol

[@hortbeck]

Korean TV and Media treated BTS so bad in their first few years that BTS will hardly appear on any Korean talk shows and even some award shows.

[@jessicapierce3027]

BTS are in a weird place, yes technically they are a kpop group but at the same time they surpass typical trends in the industry. They are playing on the same level as the most popular artist around the world but still don't get the credit/recognition because they come from kpop. I don't think they will ever break away from the label of Kpop which is preventing a lot of people from really appreciating them, I think that is why a lot of fans get so annoyed when others say BTS is kpop.

[@aivablakecypher]

The Korean Pop Industry did not pick those boys to be BTS, because, in the first place, BTS wasn't even welcomed by the Kpop Industry and Kpop fans. They were despised for not being on the CATEGORY OF POPULAR AND PRIVILEGED. They shone by their own hardwork, charisma, talent, genuinenes, effort, perseverance, and humility. WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE KPOP INDUSTRY. Their story of being underdogs, underappreciated, and underrated is what made the world embraced BTS. If you have time, please watch the docu series THE RISE OF BANGTAN. It's available here on YT. You'll see how BTS literally started from nothing, they were the poorest trainees you'll ever see on Kpop. You'll understand BTS more.

[@silviamunoz6863]

It seems to me that you want to put "a stamp" on them enclosing them in a unique style. When you said that at the beginning they have no style and so on. They worked on their personality during 2 years before their debut. Since the beginning they had something special: the subject of their songs and I mean their because they put their experiences and struggling on their lyrics. Relating to the style, theirs is any style they can put on their beats, they didn't let to be put in a cage, they are free to experience all and they've been doing this very well! Paraphrasing RM: they are no rap, no hip hop, no idols they are BTS!

[@kimluvpup438]

Everything BTS do has meaning since day one. If you listen to their very first album you would know that.

[@youlikethischainits3dollar157]

Some thinks kpop is an industry, some thinks it's a genre; that's why ARMY started not to enclose them into that box because they're capable of doing different genre and sing it in English, Korean and Japanese; and that they surpassed the Kpop Industry, and is on the level of dominating Western Music Industry.

[@marinachao3179]

I am reading other comments about how bts is different than other kpop grups, that they are unique and etc (yes, they are), but i think the biggest problem is putting asian music in a separated category by Westerns. It's not only kpop music if the music gets to the hot 100 for example. It's just music. They say "kpop" all the time so it implies that is a very different and peculiar music and that people have to open their minds to like it... as if it could not compete with A-pop (Aka American Pop lol)... if an australian group hits the charts, i dont think westerns will be calling it "australian music". It's just a consideration.

[@dkds8544]

As a follower since forever, I've been waiting for you to react to their rap songs. They are the best! Their lyrics is crazy.

[@mmmmha1489]

Groups like One direction and 5th harmonwy were also handpicked and put together and underwent training. Its not unique to kpop, so that point doesnt hold. Also jpop and cpop does it too. If it's a language thing, bts has english pop songs. Kpop does not define them.

[@lunophile]

please check out "outro: tear" the live version with lyrics, and "ugh!" written and produced by the rapline

[@TheEliteSharingan]

Deffo recommend you check out Epik High! They’re a veteran hip hop Korean group. They remind me so much of ATCQ!

[@WiseOwl_so_1d_like_to_think]

Yep, their recent album, Epik High is here Pt1 is fire! Mature & mellow tracks featuring great artists. Tablo’s lyrics never fail in their authenticity.

[@TheEliteSharingan]

@@WiseOwl_so_1d_like_to_think Epik High is Here Pt 1 is one of my top 3 favourite albums of the year. It's been helping me process a lot of mental health problems and helping me get better.

[@JKs_luvr]

definitely check out Daechitwa by Agust D next. It's off Suga'a newest mixtape and the song and MV are insane.

[@itsbonniefay2417]

The reason we don't like to call them kpop is because that's a label given from the western side of the world to the artists from Korea. It's so unspecified and not fitting when they and many other groups from Korea are called kpop make so much different content from so many different genres. It's like saying rap and pop and edm are the same if they're from the same origin or culture background like... no it doesn't work like that.

[@wendyraymond1751]

They are so very talented enjoying the journey thanku so much love and God bless x

[@deborapakpahan1819]

As a kpop fan since 2011 and an Army since 2016, you can never take the word Kpop of BTS Of course im proud that they hv gone beyond that, but nothing can change that. Kpop is basically on their body, they hv the korean blood, they love and respect their culture. And as we all know they hv always and will always produce musics from various of genres, and that includes pop too So yea

[@naniazevedo9516]

BTS did a cover of J Cole's Born Sinner and called it "born singer" you should check it out. The live version with subs is fire

[@MandyMoon12]

So happy you uploaded rn. Having insomnia🤣

[@Jdub54]

Same….

[@larrysovitasahoo9974]

You should see their history before telling them kpop group.

[@PJ6342]

So true you explained that so clear....thank you.

[@pt4srybae]

This is why we're here subscribed. Let's not get it twisted I'm here for bts only. Respect to the other Koreans but I'm not gonna lie it's bts that I'm here for and that started the head way. Thank u for listening to this song. I appreciate u. They worked hard from this point to now. True hip hop rap heads to the now diverse yes pop but did u listen to tear? Did u listen to hyyh? Then u don't know yet. Let's keep going I want to know what's in ur head what u got to say thanks love myself love urself peace

[@riza9897]

Waaah i just commented on the other vid suggesting hiphop phileee yey 😍😍

[@pt4srybae]

Born singer after j coles born sinner. Kpop means Korean pop and I know what my army kin tryna say but as an old army rm has stated in bon bv s2 Hawaii he hopes to cross bridges with kpop and today's music which many times they consider themselves kpop even tho our boy Suga has rapped against kpop (bc the industry did him + them dirty for many different reasons) to also agree that yes he is Korean pop BUT he wants to keep his (thier) style/options open to not be confined and hoping that ppl would accept that. Spit on me haters they're Korean pop who delve into all genres. And scene!

[@aah2279]

Ernest, pls check out "OUTRO TEARS" live performance at Wembley Stadium by the rap line.. you'll probably like the 'KPOP' sounds of it😉

[@LS13.]

RM- Leader of the group, Rapper/writer Suga- Main rapper, Producer/writer JHope- choreo / main dancer, rapper/writer, sub vocalist Jungkook- Main Vocalist (in charge of making the audio leads to songs first, harmonization and adlibs, and will step in for any missing member including rap line), Center of dance line, sub rapper. Jimin- lead vocalist (his voice is a natural higher register), Main dance line V- Sub Vocal (this mans has the widest vocal range) main dance line Jin- Sub Vocalist (strongest head voice, beautifully carried voice), Visual

[@indeejimin6267]

Jimin is main dancer as is JHope...

[@LS13.]

@@indeejimin6267 I mean that wasn’t the focus cause I didn’t label the dancers specifically but I’ll add it in (the reason being is all of the vocalists are in the main dance line now except for Jin, which is why I wouldn’t label it at this point)

[@amberpearce710]

Part of them is kpop but not isn’t what BTS is completely… I highly recommend watching this video to understand what I mean. BTS vs Kpop: a video essay by bby gang

[@minitwink16]

He said as an elementary student he wrote 16 bars in the corner of his textbooks.

[@karlafrancis8471]

Funny cuz the trainee system was influenced by the US.

[@nneichan9353]

just before BTS went on their break they spoke about how they wanted to do more Korean songs again. I think they are very proud of being Korean and I don't think they'd be at all upset if someone calls them KPOP. I do think they've transcended the label, but calling a group kPOP is not insulting in the least. Maybe the name isn't big enough to hold BTS but it is not insulting.

[@pjmbyul]

there's nothing wrong with calling bts a kpop group, contrary to your comment section, but the core thing to note is that bts are kpop, but kpop is NOT bts. the issue a lot of armys have with that label is that it lumps in all of the other kpop groups with bts, when bts' success is soooo disproportionately higher than these others artists. that, and bts' artistry is just better lmao (which is subjective, but let's be real here: there's a reason bts is on top and not these other groups, and it's not the looks or dancing, because these other groups all look cool and can dance, so what's the variable? bts' artistry).

[@idatejungkook]

i personally believe no more dream slaps

[@moonaking3606]

RM actually had the other members of the group study about hip hop in their early years :) He wanted them to know their shit.

[@elinapsychcyphers]

Rm and Suga are underground rappers from the beginning

[@Nezumi99]

Kpop isn't just a music it's the way you dress, you walk it's a life style not just music gender. So yeah he can refer to them as kpop. Because kpop has no category

[@user-gk5fy2pc1o]

SUGA is fire

[@JackInTheBox0294]

Agreed😏🔥

[@helenscott8202]

Yep, you got the 3 rappers and that JHope is one of the main dancers and handles a lot of the dance instruction and some of the choreo. Yeah, BTS calls themselves KPOP.

[@quinettesanders7999]

I appreciate your commentary and your obvious love and appreciation of music. Joining your Patreon now and can't wait to see what else you have coming. Keep doing what you are doing! :-)

[@AliaAlisah]

While a lot of people are saying BTS is not kpop. They are kpop. And they'll be kpop until they disband and stop being idols. They do everything like kpop idols. The way they were formed, the training, almost everything is controlled by the company, the makeup, the variety show stuff. That's what kpop is. Kpop is not just about music or the genre. So yeah BTS is kpop and it's nothing wrong with it.

[@eileencritchley4630]

BTS are part of the company eg they own part of it they're not treated the same way by Big Hit that other kpop artists are treat by the company's they belong to. They are not the same and never will be.

[@Goldjade14]

This is just my opinion/ experience ( nobody kill me for this ) Alright so I’ve been into bts since 2017. Been into kpop since 2011 . I’ve learn a lot about them from their backstory , struggles , what makes them different etc . So here what I’ve learn : bts ORIGINALLY was suppose to be a rap group but singers got added into the group . They became kpop but with hip hop influences. This part always get confusing for me because I always ask “did they started and label themself as a hip hop group then into kpop ?! etc etc “. But anyways … I’ve always been seeing this whole “ bts paved the way “ and “ bts is not kpop” because 1) they were treated differently by the kpop industry .toxic Fans would attack them hate on them , spread rumors, death threats etc 2) they do things differently from other companies / groups . Talk about mental health , suicide , depression rather then use the usual kpop formula of talking about love / romance . Overall I would say this : bts is kpop cause look kpop has : dance , rapping and singing all at once , plus auditions . It’s part of the INDUSTRY. HOWEVER THEY THEMSELVES separated themselves from other groups and artists . Now just kpop artists but also American artists as well. Which is why I can see why fans would say their in a “category of their own “ . Their versatile in genres , use references to movies , famous thinkers , academics etc . Example : map of soul album series is based on psychology. And uses Carl Jung concepts . Which is where this whole “BTS POP” came into this thing. So whenever sometimes I hear people say “ bts took another win for kpop” some fans will be all “ sorry this win is for us only not for kpop cause y’all treated them like shit ”!! Etc etc etc . If I recall I remember watching an in the interview of them at the billboard music awards 2018 and RM mention how “ if you want to call us a boyband that’s fine or kpop it’s ok. “ And one last thing , if bts isn’t kpop group then I guess they shouldn’t be part of awards shows like mama awards , golden disc award , melon music awards etc .

[@keishagarcia5776]

You should totally check out Cyper 4 by bts‼️ That’s my all time favorite song!

[@jenjin9492]

Okay after this you really need to watch Born Singer, their version of J Cole's song Born Sinner.

[@bbolbbory]

Have you seen My Mr. on Netflix? full of 'scent of humans'. recommend. the show is my pride as a Korean.

[@jeons613]

no offense but maybe people should stop questioning either they respect hiphop or not and start learning about their background and music first before mindlessly interpreting things. they are created as a hiphop group since day one.

[@janetaskin2150]

I love your cogent, informed, analytical BTS reactions! Thanks so much & look forward to more. Take care!

[@destorer5000]

1) BTS IS K-POP. 2) K-POP is NOT a genre... It's a description... The term "K-Pop" means Korean POPULAR music. It's popular music FROM Korea. I remember when it was created... It came into existence to put an end to this conversation: "What are you listening to?" "___ they're from Korea." "Why?" "Because I like it." "Why?" "....." "Why do you like it?" "Because I do, and it's actually pretty popular." Telling people it's popular was the only way to make them SHUT UP. The phrase "It's Korean music, and it's popular" was shortened to "K-Pop" to save fans the headache of explaining it EVERY SINGLE TIME. It stopped the why's and gave people something to look for.

[@VictoriaLovesMusic]

this isnt correct cause if you ask any kprean theyll tell you that kpop aka idol music is NOT popular in Korea. theyll also say that the reason bts is not idols or strictly idols is because their music has HAN. because they write and produce their own music theyre more than idols. idol music is largely shallow and not written by the artists so koreans consider the artists who do put Han in their music to be separated from "just idol music" and Korean armys have the same issie when telling pther Koreans who dont listen to bts how bts are different when they do finally give bts a chance and read their lyrics then they agree bts are not just idols. the only difference between koreans and non koreans who call bys as idols/kpop is the racial and xenophobic biases non koreans have when discussing. so reality is bts are not kpop because they transcended just being idols. watch bts vs kpop by bbygang his conclusion i somewhat disagree with buy overall the video explains this with proof and detail.

[@destorer5000]

@@VictoriaLovesMusic It's not about being popular IN Korea. It's about being popular OUTSIDE of Korea. The basic concept is that if people are listening to it outside of Korea, then it's popular. Also, K-Pop isn't limited to idol groups. It refers to ALL MUSIC from Korea... (so long as people outside of Korea listen to it) And you can't ask Koreans because it was a term used by NON-Koreans.... Like I said, the term was to end that stupid conversation. Unfortunately, people misunderstood the true meaning and started to limit it to idol groups and songs IN Korean. I don't need to ask about the meaning because I WITNESSED IT'S CREATION.

[@destorer5000]

@@VictoriaLovesMusic On another note, labeling the term "K-Pop" as "xenophobic" is a sign of ignorance. The purpose of that term was to SHUT DOWN the ignorant questions from ACTUAL xenophobics who took an issue with people listening to music from another country.

[@JackInTheBox0294]

@@VictoriaLovesMusic right

[@VictoriaLovesMusic]

@@destorer5000 well koreans say they dont like the term kpop and when most people think of kpop they think idols not all korean artists so the label kpop should not be used further cause all its doing is othering Korean artists. people call epik high and tiger jk kpop and thats night right so kpop fans should stop usong kpop to describe any Korean artists since all it does is put non Korean music fans at a distance cause all they see is pop music not all genres. so regardless you defending the title does nothing to solve the problem. and i think you should listen to what actual koreans say about their music example bts not wanting to be called kpop artists.

[@sandys1890]

We used to call it Artist development here in America

[@Clumsy_Hearted]

Hey Ernest-love your stuff on Patreon and twitch-YA’LL subscribe! I sooooo appreciate your unbiased take on BTS. I’ll preface this by saying I’m a membership-paid, card-carrying ARMY. BTS is very unique in the industry but the industry is still K-pop. Just like the rest of the world calls artists “American pop singer…or British punk artist…, etc.” I mean the Beatles were called a British boy band at the beginning. It really doesn’t matter. A lot of the K-Pop production houses create groups marketed to China and rarely are they still called C-Pop or M-pop (Mandarin)-hell, most very successful K-Pop groups produce albums in Japanese, too-even BTS-are they then J-Pop? No. K-pop is their roots and they should be proud of what they’ve accomplished in that industry and they’re very proud to represent their country and culture. Eventually the world will just call artists from different countries simply by their names. The internet has made the world able to experience other cultures and it’s a wonderful thing. I lived in Southern Africa as a teenager in the 80s (yes, I’m old 😬) and they were loving and talking about Michael Jackson-not the American pop singer Michael Jackson. ARMY talks about transcending K-Pop. If being known internationally and having a unique or diverse discography is the qualifier, although BTS is the most globally recognized, many of their fellow idol groups have gone global/international too-looking at you BlackPink, EXO, NCT 127, MONSTA X and more and music lovers are all here for it. Reminder to Americans that international doesn’t have to include America. Hats off to your perspective.

[@Belbecat]

I’m not concerned about labels as the guys no longer care about labels, but what their debut music lacked in story it made up ample in message and intent. It was cringe because they dared to shoot for the sky at such a young age and to attempt something different - kids stepping up to take the hits on behalf of all the suppression aimed at their youth and the injustices of society. Was too bad you had no thought about Suga’s verse which is the one that hit me the hardest.

[@Belbecat]

but overall, enjoyable reaction

[@zoeelovee2]

if you think that being hand picked is not normal, you literally know nothing about the western music industry. the way they train in music might be unique but it’s not a unique idea in any other thing in western culture like sports for example. bts themselves has actually said they are idols and artists and that kpop is not a genre so i don’t know how you came up with this idea that they have said they are kpop. it’s not cringe. they literally wrote that song to inspire other korean teens because of how the korean education system and how their parents/society are.

[@janebaculi9176]

Were the Beatles' nationality ever emphasized, were the Eagles or any American group ever labeled as A-pop et al? that's why even if you're referring to them as K-pop because of the way that K-pop is structured, that's also precisely the reason why labeling them as k-pop is not entirely relevant anymore since they broke out of that mold even in their early days.. even with their personalities not yet coming out, they wrote a lot of their earlier songs because the Korean music industry that was so big literally was negating them at the onset and invalidating what they did so I really have to stress we who appreciate them also deny this K-pop labelling!! Let's agree they're Koreans who still have Korean lyrics but their music has evolved and revolves around so many genres... and when translated there's so much more meaning and research and word play that really is just up there with my favorite international artists.

[@LynnHermione]

NMD is not cringe. NMD is fire as fuck.

[@mariebaumbach7345]

Even to Koreans, Kpop DOES NOT MEAN KOREAN POP. The name caught on but what it actually means is IDOL POP. That's the idol industry you're talking about. There are still korean popular stars or singers that are NOT part of the idol system. The biggest misconception ever cemented about kpop is that it stands for all pop music in korean. Nah, it means the idol industry

[@LynnHermione]

Thing is, korean pop is NOT kpop. Kpop is idol music, a VERY SPECIFIC kind of music. Like musicals to Disney channel musicals. DCM are musicals but are not the same as broadway. BTS are broadway. BTS said they ARE NOT KPOP.

[@ree6042]

all the "lils" i laughed so hard.

[@speaktruth9989]

11:12 They did have a story the rappers were underground rappers and the dancers won many dance competitions

[@ericweinman9447]

They absolutely are K Pop. BTS are third generation leaders who have evolved beyond the Idol platform to not only express their own thoughts, but to create a global presence which is opening doors to 4th generation K Pop groups. Seo Taiji, arguably the artist which set the table for K Pop prior to the formation of the Idol platform, on his 25th anniversary did a stadium concert celebrating his music with one guest artist collaborating, BTS. He declared BTS to be the inheritors of the K Pop torch. The fact that BTS is innovative, multigenre, and pretty much can do whatever kind of music they set their minds to does not mean they divorce themselves from K Pop. It simply means they are the most excellent example of where K Pop is evolving. Suga at the Grammy Museum once said we are not K Pop, we are BTS. A lot of stans have taken this out of context and now run reaction channels making a not K pop argument. Suga, who cares greatly about the globalization of Korean artists, simply wanted all artists showing up in the US or wherever to be regarded based on their own individual merits, not as a classification. He used the expression BTS is not K Pop to convey this, but in classic fanatic fashion it morphed into BTS feeling they are not K Pop. This is not the case. The idea which was echoed by members was a reaction to the American music industry and hence American music listeners creating a box to put all Korean artists in with little knowledge of the wide variety of individuals they were boxing.

[@LynnHermione]

they are not kpop. they say it, korean music critics say it, korean media says it. the only ones wanting to drag bts down to kpop are kpoppies.

[@kiobts322]

8:42 honestly you got that opinion because the western media is always trying to push that image onto them due to the fact that they dont want a foreign act to out do their white pop stars. "Kpop is brekaing records" no it's mostly just bts but they would never say that if it mean grouping bts together with everyone else in the west. How could they admit music that's not produced in the west is good? Today you have awards shows such as vmas creating the "kpop" category just so that they dont have to nominate bts in the main categories that alone tells you enough. As for kpop being korean pop, was the song you just heard a pop song? Is any song in korean kpop? Why was butter an english song nominated for best kpop? If your idea of kpop is the industry of entertainment companies training people and debuting them, the creation of bts didnt follow that path. They were never limited on their creativity, they didn't chase catchy music with dumb lyrics just to be plesing to the general public. They were polishing their talents creating music till they got the opportunity to debut.

[@avieeee03]

Yo , i think you should react "who is bts" and "The rise of Bangtan" series.. ohh yas! They know hiphop.. :)

[@justinalagon6277]

You should check their solo mixtapes... RM JOKE, JHOPE WOLRD AND SUGA DAECHWITA, AGUST D and D2 TH3Y ARE SPITTING FIRE... also DDAENG is FIRE YOU SHOULD CHECK THEM OUT... SHOUT OUT TO YOU LILY THANK YOU LILY FOR RECOMMENDING OUR BOYS TO THE WOLRD

[@talielewiss]

Watching these other “hip hop heads” review bts in general, makes me appreciate Knox Hill SO MUCH.

[@VictoriaLovesMusic]

please react to bbygangs videos bts vs kpop, youre wrong about kpop, the media is wrong about kpop, kpop vs orientalism etc

[@lovelyjjin8091]

Not kpop , only bts pop amaizing

[@heyoo.-.360]

bts ARE kpop and it’s a label THEY know they are apart of, but they are also apart of other categories too. the only problem is the stigma kpop has and how it might make people stay away from bts. if they aren’t kpop they shouldn’t be on the same music programs and shows other kpop acts are on.. if they aren’t kpop they shouldn’t be able to get the same awards kpop acts get..

[@mishka0613]

Kpop is an industry tho not a genre. I mean then the rest of the world should be labeling music from America Apop or something. But personally the reason I don't like this is that labeling something as kpop/jpop/cpop doesn't end with just describing the language used but it's a way people "other" the music. "It's not rap, that's kpop" that's not jazz it's jpop" I mean, these may seem random but like it's not uncommon to see people build these kind of walls.

[@jadaveg]

I’m surprised I’m not seeing more comments begging for you to check out Daechwita. I think you need Daechwita in your life. You can thank me later. 😜 Agust D is Suga from BTS doing his own solo album. It’s straight fire.

[@AliaAlisah]

3:21 RM is the Main rapper not lead rapper. Suga and jhope are lead rappers