Do THIS Next Time Someone Asks You About D&D

[@Friedensbringer]

I have been doing (and advocating for) this for more then 10 years. I call it the "3-minute demo" - instead of explaining to someone, what a TTRPG is, I ask them if they got 3 minutes to play one, to first hand experience what it is. Though I don't place them in a fantastical scenario. I use a real-world scenario and note the differences to something like D&D on the go. It works really well.

[@EmergentGM]

@Friedensbringer brilliant way to make it accessible! Come to think about it, 3 minutes is really all you need to pitch it

[@nairocamilo]

Make a video about it!

[@Friedensbringer]

@@nairocamilo I did! 13 years ago in German xD kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoi2q5R5a6djbaM

[@macoppy6571]

The first time I played DnD my theif got eaten by an Otyough by crawling down a latrine to recover a single shining coin. My characters tend to share the paranoia this instilled in my metagame.

[@EmergentGM]

@macoppy6571 hahaha! I can imagine demo-ing this scenario to a newcomer 😂 brilliant!

[@ImVeryOriginal]

Killing a new player over nothing by rabdomly throwing an impossible challenge at them? Real classy stuff, what a shit GM.

[@ElTotofly]

- "But is the goal to win ?" - "No" - "What is the goal ?" - "To tell a great story !" She perfectly sums it all up !

[@EmergentGM]

@ElTotofly 💯!

[@peterclarke7240]

I've done similar with a work colleague, and it ended up with most of the office joining in. I gave him a d20, and announced "an angry middle manager bursts into the office and accuses you of misfiling form F-245a. Roll for initiative!" 🤣

[@EmergentGM]

@peterclarke7240 I’m sure it didn’t take long for them to understand the concept of roleplaying 😂😂

[@peterclarke7240]

@@EmergentGM Yep. It was funny how they all chose violence once they realised violence was an option, as well... 🤔

[@DKhuluq]

Holy crap! You played Offices & Bosses for real!

[@peterclarke7240]

@@DKhuluq 🤣🤣

[@LetMeintheLibrary]

I LOVE this lmaoo

[@mirtos39]

This is how we taught the game back in the day. Rules werent as important. The players were.

[@elreyabeja4539]

This is the biggest issue with modern D & D players, they're rabid about rules and mechanics. I submit that a player doesn't need to know any rules or mechanics. Ever. They just need to tell the DM what they want to do.

[@EmergentGM]

@mirtos39 💯 It’s a solid mindset to have as a Gamemaster!

[@EmergentGM]

@elreyabeja4539 I can definitely see that. More than a feature than a bug i think as some players are really into the crunchiness of the rules. I have a bunch of power gamers in my group but they differ to my call as GM and they don’t get lose the spirit of why we’re playing.

[@coachski74]

The video that this lesson was based off of is amazing. I didn’t really know who Deborah was but you’re right; no fluff, no needless rules explanation, this girl gets to the thick right away and her passionate explanation of why she loves this is wonderful. Thank you for the great video!

[@EmergentGM]

@coachski74 Glad you found it useful coach! I've never seen her DM prior to this little exchange and I think it's safe to say there's a lot to learn from her example.

[@s-nut]

I got back into D&D after a 43-yr hiatus because of Deb's D&D content here on KZbin. I've been following every D&D thing she's associated with. Amazingly creative. I saw Jon's podcast video, as well, and was blown away by how open she was about her difficulties growing up. If you want to see her talents as a writer and storyteller, I recommend her Relics & Rarities series here. If you like Jack Black and/or Reggie Watts, check out Deb's excellent skills at herding these guys through a game ("IGN & D&D Present Lost Odyssey: Promised Gold with Jack Black - Full Stream"). My favorite appearance of all is her guest appearance on Critical Role (S02E045 - "The Stowaway")... it's 5 hours long, but her creative role playing is amazing. ;)

[@s-nut]

@@EmergentGM Check out her Relics & Rarities series here on Geek & Sundry. The first episode with Matt Lillard as guest is particularly good, since his RP is also fun to watch. I also liked her game on Stream of Many Eyes - "Day 3 - Witch of Briarcleft" It's a good little oneshot story that she created. I've enjoyed every game she's DM'd. Great storywriter and loves puzzles, which I'm a particular fan of.

[@EmergentGM]

@s-nut thanks for the recommendation! I heard about Relics & Rarities and the Jack Black D&D but haven’t seen them yet. I’m a whole campaign behind for CR but I’ll earmark that episode!

[@EmergentGM]

@s-nut When she left the daredevil show I was bummed out and didn’t understand why she’d leave it. Now I know. And couldn’t be happier for her. Mad respect! I would love to see how she handles puzzles. It’s an area I need improving in for sure lol

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

Never thought of this but it's brilliant. I usually describe it much how she does:, but the short demo is great. One thing I always add is that it's also a great way to spend time with people. You develop all sorts in jokes and sometimes you're just joking around and having fun as much as you are taking it seriously. One example I like is that when we were playing a western style fantasy RPG (Deadlands) we did a whole session picking up girls/guys at a saloon. We rolled to see how attractive our characters were and used persuasion to see how well we could deliver whatever lines we used, getting bonuses if we came up with something clever. It was hilarious fun. You can really do anything with a decent GM.

[@EmergentGM]

@DavidSmith-mt7tb I know right? Even something as mundane as a trip to the market has led to a lot of memorable encounters. Just need some imagination and a bit of good humour. Love those unguarded moments as you can really let loose and have fun with the players

[@timnolan1802]

I start with a very basic description, "This is basically me telling a story, you making a character to walk through this story, being creative on how to approach a problem or situation, and rolling dice to see how well you achieve your goal. Most important thing is to just have fun." Explaining the mechanics along the way always seemed the best way to deal with new players to keep it from becoming overwhelming. I let them know that as the DM I will be be making a total a** of myself in the roleplay as NPC's, so they can feel like they can work themselves into it without feeling like they're in the spotlight.

[@EmergentGM]

@timnolan1802 love that you relieve some of the pressure by mentioning your part as NPCs. It gives them an impression that you’re here to have fun too 👍🏻

[@JesterOC]

I’ve done that before. At a family get together, my scenario was a person trying to steal from a merchant. It doesn’t take long for the person to start buying into the scenario.

[@SiberianOldPal]

Those are cool advices! It would come in handy for me, I am having a bunch of new players :D

[@EmergentGM]

@SiberianOldPal Haha timely! I'm curious to know if it works the same with a larger group of new players?

[@spacerx]

Wait, it's that the daredevil girl?

[@EmergentGM]

@spacerx 💯! Ah so you too are a person of high culture 😌

[@davidcassell4659]

Another really good example you should check out is Ginny Di's video of getting her parents to play D&D and how that works.

[@EmergentGM]

@davidcassell4659 oh I didn’t know she did that. Must’ve been fun haha. I’ll check that out thanks!

[@amandamiura4590]

DAW talking about DMing and what she does in her games are like a masterclass in collaborative storytelling. I highly recommend checking out Relics & Rarities, which she did with Geek & Sundry and/or Children of Earté, which she did with Demiplane, and their after show interviews she did

[@EmergentGM]

@amandamiura4590 💯! She does it so naturally too. Thanks for the reco! I’ll check em out :)

[@laffingist218]

when i saw this i emailed it to my party immediately

[@EmergentGM]

@laffingist218 the actual interview? My friends and I enjoyed it too! especially if you know both Deborah and Jon Bernthal.

[@thienpool]

Mark Hulmes does these same things beautifully with the Baldur Gates 3 Cast XD

[@EmergentGM]

@thienpool I missed that! Do you have the link?

[@thienpool]

@@EmergentGM kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJatfKGlm7N1hNU

[@EmergentGM]

@thienpool my hero!

[@Tysto]

Start them in a dungeon. “You find the entrance to an ancient tomb &, once you managed to open it, find musty darkness within. Lighting a torch, you see an open pit blocking your way, but beyond is a niche where something small glisters gold in your flickering firelight.”

[@EmergentGM]

@Tysto classic!

[@BigCowProductions]

I go full modern "You're walking through a park at night, and suddenly a kickball flies by your face. You'd make a dex save, then, describe the kid coming up, maybe not sure why they are there /what are they doing, then ask them what they would do"

[@danielt63]

My favorite way of introducing the game is with... "You wake up, it's a normal workday, what do you do?" Let them talk about getting ready for their day. In the scenario, they are the only person in the world. Everybody else disappeared while they were asleep. So if they turn on the radio or TV, they hear static, If they have family members, the beds are empty. No cars on the road... It's fun watching them get more and more invested in what happened to everybody. And much like how Deborah Ann did, I shut it down at some point and say, "there you go, you've played a role playing game..."

[@EmergentGM]

@danielt63 Great scenario! Has Last of Us or Walking Dead vibes. Now that you mention it, post-apoc seems easier to get into than fantasy.

[@CADJewellerySkills]

A nice breakdown on an elegant introduction.

[@EmergentGM]

@CADJewellerySkills thank you for the comment and taking the time to watch! :)

[@Ricvictors]

I usually begin with “imagine you are walking through a dark corridor and you come upon two doors, one to your left and one to your right. What do you do?”, wait for their answer and come up with something else, maybe “you enter the door and you find a library. There’s a large table with a book. Some pages have been torn and scattered across the floor, there’s another intact book on a display case. What do you do next?”. And after a few more answers I go “that’s an RPG, I’m telling you a story and you get to make it up as you go, interact with the characters, with the scenery, etc etc”.

[@EmergentGM]

@Ricvictors pull them into collaborative storytelling 👌🏻

[@RaisiaFan1919]

I just say "Do you know how when you're watching a movie or TV show and you yell at a character for doing something stupid? Role playing games are like becoming that characters and being able to control what that character does."

[@EmergentGM]

@RaisiaFan1919 Hahaha! That's such a great way to bridge the gap. "Oh, and btw, you're the character that does the stupid."

[@Aridpoison]

Nice nice nice 👍

[@Wilhuf1]

While I don’t really play D&D anymore, I love Edge of the Empire. One way to engage players there is to let them roll most everything.

[@EmergentGM]

@Wilhuf1 I've started to branch out more after the OGL thing last year. There's a LOT of hidden gems out there that never knew existed. And I'm so glad I decided to look outside D&D. What's Edge of the Empire like? This is the Star Wars one ya?

[@Wilhuf1]

@@EmergentGM Yes, that’s the Star Wars RPG. One of the cool aspects of Edge of the Empire’s dice-pool based system is that the dice have a ‘narrative axis’. The dice determine both whether the test is successful, just like all RPGs, but, there could be tangential narrative consequences, good or bad. For example, if your character rolls to destroy a door controller and succeeds, but rolls enough setbacks, or even a ‘despair’, he could successfully seal the door, but accidentally destroy the bridge controller. Now he’s gotta swing across the chasm. And more stormtroopers are coming. Btw, Fantasy Flight Games also have a generic version of the rules used with Edge of the Empire, and that’s called the Genesys system. Works great on any RPG theme.

[@EmergentGM]

@Wilhuf1 I've heard of Genesys! But didn't get into it so much. Sounds like the dice literally determine the consequence or complication of the roll. I can see the appeal of having that mechanic. How does it feel/work vs rolling a nat20 or a nat1?

[@thac0twenty377]

its fine, just when i get goats blood on my character sheets its hads, ya know? Is it a 3? an 8? i cant tell. Like Jerry, sacrifice the goat on the other table.

[@EmergentGM]

@thac0twenty377 There's never enough goats to go around for the kind of rolls my players chance on 😅

[@thac0twenty377]

@@EmergentGM right? Classic Jerry....

[@pirate1of1caribbean]

try doing that in Poland, people would start with questioning everything about the scenario you presented and then berate you for making them do weird decisions on the spot :P

[@EmergentGM]

@pirate1of1caribbean haha! Sounds exactly like what would happen in Singapore 😂

[@khallrik]

​@@EmergentGMwait, who is this that knows so much about Singaporean kiasu-ness!

[@EmergentGM]

@@khallrik You wouldn't believe who!

[@NemoOhd20]

You know, EARLY D&D, before it was even called D&D, meant the players didnt even know the rules. Arneson actually thought the DM aka judge should ideally not be seen and just adjudicate (with the help of dice) what happened when the players do what the describe or attempted. Imagine how much less metagaming there would be.

[@EmergentGM]

@NemoOhd20 I keep hearing that roleplaying games pre-D&D were very rules light. I get the appeal of dice and rules to make a fair game but also wonder if it’s been over-complicated for the sake of crunchiness

[@NemoOhd20]

@@EmergentGM We sometimes would play D&D, Boothill and Top Secret in the same week. Could you imagine trying that with 2000 page rule books (and optional rulebooks) from modern D&D?

[@possiblyneil4978]

Hey, could you please provide a link to your source videos?

[@EmergentGM]

@possiblyneil4978 here's the clip that I referenced: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKG5e42olseAh6csi=OhXCW-WHs0eXqbsi

[@IceMetalPunk]

Whenever new people ask about D&D, I *never* mention mechanics, rules, stats, numbers, monsters, or *any* of that. When people hear that, they immediately check out, thinking "this is that nerd stuff I thought it would be", and stop caring. You can practically see their eyes glaze over 😂 Instead, I always start with this simple description: "It's like 'Whose Line Is It Anyway?', but the only improv game is 'Scenes from the Dice'." A lot of people who never thought about RPGs will be familiar with Whose Line, or at least improv comedy in general, and maybe even already know they enjoy that! So that gets their interest... when they ask for more info, I still avoid the grindy mechanics descriptions: "So you make a character, like the characters in an improv scene. And together, you tell a big improvised story, with you acting as your character. Occasionally, you'll roll some dice for luck: roll well, and good things happen you can celebrate. Roll poorly, and bad things happen that you'll have to figure out how to work around. In the end, the goal of the game is just 'tell a good story, have fun, and try not to die'." If they're still interested from there, then the "let's play a quick one-shot to get your toes wet, and I'll explain mechanics as they come up" works well. I also, of course, highly recommend new players find a DM who's at least somewhat experienced for their first games. Being confused about the game, and then having a DM who's not experienced enough to guide you, can often make for a terrible first impression, and turn people off of D&D forever.

[@EmergentGM]

@IceMetalPunk love that you put your potential player first by finding something they’re familiar with and see if the interest picks up from there. My problem is that I get so excited I go nerdcore and forget 😂

[@IceMetalPunk]

@@EmergentGM Oh, I totally understand! I have a backup character that's my first bottom-up design, and he's so interesting to me that I'd love to talk about him for hours! But I assume if I tell someone who knows nothing about D&D, "So he's this neutral evil College of Spirits Fallen Aasimar bard who's maxed out in charisma, with expertise in Intimidation and Deception. He scams people out of money by using illusions and tricks to put on a traveling John Edwards style mediumship show, convincing them he's talking to their dead loved ones 'with less judgment than a cleric'; then he uses Phantasmal Force to make people think he's overcoming their resistances and immunities, to scare them with his 'show of power' if they get in his way. Oh, and also..." 😂 I think they might get to "Fallen Aasimar", if I'm lucky, before checking out.

[@EmergentGM]

@IceMetalPunk haha! At least you get that far 😅

[@Yarradras]

Once I get someone to make time and sit down for a first session of d&d or another ttrpg the hard work is usually done 😅 I never explain rules before they become relevant. Just give them a character sheet and start the adventure. They are usually the best games because a newbie does not think in game mechanics or uses meta knowledge about the game. It's them interacting with the world and story instead of a player interacting with the rules of the game.

[@elreyabeja4539]

this is why I love playing with newbie groups. I've DMed 3 different newbie groups through the same adventure, and every time was completely different.

[@EmergentGM]

@Yarradras Getting someone to sit down for the first time IS the hard work 💯! Keeping them going for the rest of the campaign is the other hard work 😅

[@EmergentGM]

@elreyabeja4539 i imagine it must be a great feeling watching someone get into TTRPGs for the first time ❤️

[@galinor7]

Do you play D&D? Err no, I don't actually. I play D&D. I play BRP. Mythras. Cthulhu, Pendragon, or D00lite, Frontierspace RuinMasters. Ha, had that question.

[@EmergentGM]

@galinor7 Lol! I’ll bet that cleared things up 🤣

[@roqueadeleon]

Dude basically got to do nothing while she made up a story for him 😂

[@EmergentGM]

@roqueadeleon I don’t think he expected to get pulled into a roleplaying game right then and there 😂

[@hariszark7396]

I don’t like D&D. I don't play D&D. The only person that could convince me to play is Deborah. Not because D&D is good but because SHE is great.😆 Also that's exactly how anyone will describe any RPG.

[@EmergentGM]

@hariszark7396 Haha!

[@ellelusina]

Step #1 be a hottie. lol, jk, she's eloquent.

[@EmergentGM]

@ellelusina1993 Haha! To be fair… Step #1 is harder to pull off

[@ungerview]

This is why D&D shouldn't be the top, main, or most popular system for roleplay. So many other system are rules lite and allow you to jump right in and play with new people. D&D is way too complicated. Also, stop calling it D&D and call it Roleplay!

[@EmergentGM]

@ungerview totally agree! Unfortunately D&D is top of mind and synonymous to tabletop roleplaying in general. I’m hoping that changes down the road.

[@damightyshabba439]

I played my first D&D game at 10. At 18 I was running the RPG dept for Virgin Games. At 19 I was chairman of the UK's largest independent RPG society, WARPS. (Worlds Apart RPG Society). I quit at 22 because - I wasn't playing - at all. Just running the club, no time to actually game. Attracting, introducing, training and integrating new players is always hard - MUCH easier now that Hollywood has adopted it!!!! But back then.... very hard. Now I live alone on a hillside in Spain.... I play online... I mean Baldours Gate is fine, but it's not the same as sitting at a table with Pizza and a beer. I miss pen and paper, tabletop, "Proper" rpgs. As I mentioned - started at 10. now I'm 50. Only got a few campaigns left in me.... Oh - new players - 1) assess the person - what do THEY want? Short quest (no books, just make it up over the table) Give them something after a small task that they want (imrpoved Stat (STR, INT, Con etc). 2) A possession that ONLY they can use that will save..... blah. 3) Love interest. "If you don't do this, she/he/they will die by noon tomorrow". Always timestamp it - makes them move straight away. None of this "I'll stop off at the tavern" crap - on with the mission.

[@EmergentGM]

@damightyshabba439 woooow that’s an incredible history with the hobby under your belt! I’d love to pick your brain on how the hobby has grown and evolved over time especially with D&D not being the only contender on the market. That said, your 3 point outline is brilliant! I made the mistake recently of skipping point 1 and paid dearly for it. I’ll probably share the failure in an upcoming video, but yes, point 1! Love how point 2 and 3 moves them straight into the heart of the action, no fluff, ticking clock 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@damightyshabba439]

@@EmergentGM I cant claim to play any board games, but I've watched lot of Will Weatons stuff - and there is usually a "clock" on those things. (a disc moving towards the end) I'd love to play them, but have no one to play with. So I play the PC versions... not quite the same :( Its been about 18 years since I played "properly" - but feel free to pick whats left of my brains. Just as an aside - I did actually ditch D&D fairly early on. I moved over to Vampire (White Wolf) and Rolemaster (Waaay too many charts, but I loved it). Cyberpunk... and all the rest. Never played any Games Workshop crap - not interested. Even when they gave me some £185 "gift package" I just gave it to a kid without opening it. No time for those guys. (£185 in 1997). D&D is still my mast, but I play a lot of other stuff. And write my own. I have a few games that only require a deck of cards... you can RPG anywhere ;) !!!

[@EmergentGM]

@damightyshabba439 I know the feeling… so many good board games. But all require other people to play with. Digital is a nice substitute but doesn’t quite capture the same feel in person with others. Haven’t heard the games you mentioned and I’m realising just how big the roleplaying space is. D&D’s got the lion’s share of things but it would be interesting to see if they can keep it for the next 50 yrs. Have any of your works been published? What was that process like?

[@damightyshabba439]

@@EmergentGM I'll be totally honest - yes, a couple of things were published - I was also writing for a few IT magazines at the time. But that was 20 years ago - I could not name the issues etc! Honestly? The process was easy. I emailed them saying I was interested in having a column, they asked for a "piece" and once accepted... done. A few months work. Some for free, some charged. It's more about getting the rep out there than making money. Target the smaller more "niche" outlets. Build from there. I can't say published works ever paid the mortgage, but it did pay for a few nice nights out.

[@EmergentGM]

@@damightyshabba439 Thanks a lot! Experience 20 years ago is still more relevant than my 0 years presently lol. Love the point about building cred over $$$. I think that piece right there is still relevant today.

[@stochasticagency]

I must disagree with that particular example of making a roll. More context is needed for the example. Without complicating circumstances, keeping information like how far something is from you locked behind a roll seems unnecessary. After all, her previous description of something stepping on a branch revealed that it was something "large," no roll needed. We've reached a point in the hobby where "roll less" has become a common statement, especially in d20-based games.

[@EmergentGM]

@stochasticagency I agree it's not the ideal way to call for a roll, and we can fall into the trap of asking rolls unnecessarily. But I feel it works for the moment, especially if this was spur of the moment.

[@tukkerintensity5575]

Also, for me, there are no stakes or interesting outcomes for a failed or successful role in this situation. However in the context of showing someone who has never played how the mechanics of the game work I think it is fine.

[@EmergentGM]

@tukkerintensity5575 agreed!

[@vedrengrabelox3231]

Or you could just say "It's kinda like improvisational theatre with dice." , and be done with it.

[@EmergentGM]

@vedrengrabelox3231 explaining is very different from experiencing. :)

[@JacopoSkydweller]

That's a really great way to get a normal person to never try it out or particularly want to talk to you again, but yeah, go for it!

[@vedrengrabelox3231]

@@JacopoSkydweller I will never get any sleep, constantly clutching my pearls, that my life will be bereft of such closed minded individuals.

[@garion046]

It's not a bad description, especially for RP heavy tables. But tbh as a quiet introvert that would terrify me. Similar to you I would lean ona quick initial description though. Something like 'you play a character and help tell a story with your friends. When you don't know what might happen in the story someone rolls a dice to decide.' That might sound identical to your description, but to help someone who hears theatre and freezes up like a 5 year old at their first nativity play, sitting around with mates telling a story is more accessible. Obviously this video's experience approach is if someone bites at that first hook.

[@EmergentGM]

@garion046 @vedrengrabelox3231 I agree with the one-liner approach too and, depending on who you're talking to, it's all what people are looking for. It's a great elevator pitch and side-steps lengthy explanations.

[@MietoK]

I usually go “DnD sucks, let’s play Savage Worlds”

[@EmergentGM]

@MietoK 💯 I actually run Pathfinder 2e for my group for about 2 years now 😂 haven’t looked back since

[@wwade7226]

While I do appreciate how Deborah explained it, this type of introduction is nothing new. Waaaaaayyyyy, way back in 1982, this was pretty much exactly how I was introduced to the game. The only difference here is that they are celebrities and it was filmed. While noteworthy, everyone is going ga ga over a technique that has been around for decades.

[@vederianl9723]

Maybe because they are younger than you and have never seen the technique before? My first game in 1994 involved sitting down and making a character first thing.

[@EmergentGM]

@wwade7226 I have no doubt this isn’t a new technique, and it is refreshing to see it in real time especially for someone who’s new to TTRPGs.

[@EmergentGM]

@verderianl9723 agreed. It’s incredible with all the content swirling around that people can miss something as simple as this. My first session was a quick dungeon and all I had was a character sheet too. I left having no idea what happened 😅

[@MarkLewis...]

No... Let me explain what she actually did. She used the older and much better method of "Descriptive Telling". She D&Ded or DMed the explanation, rather than cast a 9th level Sleep spell, by reciting boring mechanics and rules. Today, most publishers, (and such) want authors and would-be writers to "show" instead of "tell". Why?- Because sales. This generation and the previous grew up on video games, most with short attention spans, no critical thinking, and no imagination. They want instant gratification from their stimuli, not long-winded explanations, and just want to roll dice and kill Orcs all game. They are character-driven, not story-driven, just like the audiobooks they listen to, rather than reading them. This is a loss for most 40-year-olds and under... they've missed-out or lost the desire to experience a slow build-up of the story, and their imagination. (Kind of like no foreplay, just right into s#x, and in-and-out like a Marine, lol.) Stephen King would be a perfect example of him transitioning from a highly descriptive "Tell" writer, such as in "The Shining" to the "Show" writer he is today, and why I haven't read King since "Needful Things". In D&D the DM tries to set up the scene with descriptive storytelling by an exciting plot hook, so as to entice the players imagination in furthering the story and motivate them for exciting gameplay. That's why most people who appreciate the slow-burn and love a good storytelling enjoy the highly imaginative D&D.

[@EmergentGM]

Valid points and I agree with how different the attention spans are between generations. I for one very much enjoy reading older fantasy and fiction and the slow burn is evident in the style. It takes a lot more to stick with it but it’s definitely worth the effort. My appreciation for classics has increased over the years and the richness of the prose is nothing to gloss over, especially when you consider they were written decades ago. I’ve found some of my players liked the slow burn and immersive storytelling, some REALLY loved the intense combat. Like any group i believe, it depends on the player.

[@MarkLewis...]

@@EmergentGM Yeah, I liked storytelling better when the model Joseph Campbell illustrated in his books was used, (successfully for millennia) rather than the garbage of movies and books for the last 30 years of today. It used to be the characters had goals, and moved the story forward, causing a connection to the story goals, from the characters. Today... the characters are the story, and they are so shallow, I don't know why anyone enjoys the movies of today?! Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Marvel movies, etc., it has nothing to do with strong female protagonists and antagonists, but everything to do with bad story telling. We don't care who the heroes and villains are... we just want them well written.

[@EmergentGM]

@MarkLewis... IMO, I agree that it has more to do with shallowness of the characters. There is no real change from a deeply flawed protagonist. They are perfect the way they are, even if the outside world tells them otherwise. When they discover that, they unlock their ultimate power and win against the odds. Contrast to classic stories, the flaws were evident, and shaped the decisions the character made for better or worse. Also, part of the problem is mass production. It used to be that a sequel took at least 2+ years to produce. Now you'll get it in 1 year. Something had to give and unfortunately really good storytelling was the victim. There are some nuggets out there that I enjoy and are hopeful about, I'm just a little more discerning about where I'll spend my limited time.