Do We Inherit Our Parents' Fears?

What wisdom do fairy tales hold about childrearing in our modern world?
Briar Rose is the foundation for the familiar fairytale Sleeping Beauty. It addresses the complicated consequences of unconscious parenting. While it is understandable we wish to protect our children from harsh realities, too much shielding can hobble them later in life. We may hide our shadow from ourselves and our children, but it will irrupt uninvited one day, casting the family into chaos. Instinctive reactions often hold us in suspended animation, but they may also offer a way toward healing.
Prepare to discover where fairytales intersect with modern parenting, what impact avoiding shadow has on the family, whether parental fears affect child development, why understanding psychological stagnation is essential, how symbolic stories help children face challenges, and so much more…
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[@peacelovejoy8786]

You know we do! Think about what you feel as you float around in amniotic fluid for 9 months. My Mother was was molested by her father at a very young age until 15yrs old. Secretly I believe she hated men but married my father because she wanted children. My father abused my mother mentally and emotionally. All of this generational trauma becomes part of your DNA and deepest fears. I was fortunate enough to get the help I needed through psychedelics. Psilocybin mushrooms under a doctors care. I live in Oregon where its legal but not covered by insurance. It's changed who I am and how I see things and pharmaceuticals could never do that for me! Generational trauma is real but now we know through plant medicine it's treatable without side effects 🎉

[@juditrotter5176]

Thanks for answering and giving me hope! Is this called a particular type?

[@handelibaral]

I enjoy these conversations and learn much from them. Thank you!

[@sophiequichannel]

Love this episode! I just remembered reading in Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces that a full round of one hundred years means totality. So maybe it's that after a hundred years she can be made whole, at the same time that the prince shows up.

[@lynnbrown4364]

I'm relating this to the matriarchal generational narcissism I endured for the first 60 years of my life. The repeating pattern. The illusion is the barrier. I was asleep for 60 years. It's never too late for the psyche to wake up.

[@mariaa.confortimswlcsw4193]

Something struck me when Sue said that people don't buy 13 dinner settings....as an aside she mentions Chicago and I'm from a suburb outside of Chicago..... so I'm not sure if it's a Midwest thing, but when I got married in the mid 90s, I was advised by the "fancy" department store consultant as well as many well meaning former brides, to purchase purchase 13 of each setting component because IF anything were to break.... then I couldn't have a proper complete dinner party. I couldn't help thinking of that because this version of the tale was so specific regarding how many plates there were and who they had supposedly been for.... and I wonder if it had anything to do with that little voice of precaution... of what if... of leaving a little wiggle room to cover mishaps and mistakes that inevitably occur. I think further on the description of Sue's (brilliant I might add, as I did resonate with it) but the whole feeling of the story being so "not present"....as in they say they wanted to ensure their child's best life but literally checked out the whole time on seemingly obvious oversights.... leaving 1 wise woman out seems unwise..... going on a day trip on the 15th birthday..... Get rid of all the spindles like they have that kind of power... yet have an old woman in a tower spinning away..... so much here. Lovely episode!!!❤ Update..... Then Mr. Lee never disappoints with his insight about the craft.... and life itself. Isn't that how parents can so often be.... sleepwalking through life to protect not realizing that the insulation of that child puts the entire family unit in a frozen state of suspended animation. Loved the "hmm" both ladies gave when he said "salt". You three are literally channeling a direct line to the "jungian jungle" 😂😂

[@thedreamingcure]

brilliant. grateful that you shared this conversation. happy thanksgiving you three!

[@truecrimeboozer]

Fascinating discussion as always

[@CaptainPhilosophical]

"Power gathers where there is stillness."

[@YeeWhoEnterHere]

Yes also the sleeping as dissociation is interesting because it's an active holding pattern away from truth and honestly, which is very tiring and uncomfortable, hence the thorn bushes. The land is wraps in pain itself, a pain that keeps others out, until the time is right.

[@YeeWhoEnterHere]

In a word: comfortable In the uncomfortable.

[@peterhenley9776]

Thank you for another wonderful episode, I found the analysis of the story so illuminating. I had a few additional thoughts: 1. I like the parallel with briars and spindles. One is as you said the organic version of the machine. But rather than grow in secluded forests, briars are often the first plants to return to tilled land which has been abandanoned or neglected. So I think this has the intergenerational stasis aspect too. 2. I saw the comment above re 100 years and Campbell's full cycle. I agree, and also think that it is an intergenerational angle - if a family were to sleep for 100 years, all intergenerational hand-me-down trauma would skip three generations, and be outside "living memory", and would therefore not be perpetuated either. Thank you again!

[@orangewarm1]

Definitely. I've seen it with my father and siblings.

[@greencare9702]

Yes, I think we inherit our parents' fears, we feel that invisible pressure. For example, my mother always wanted me to be an educated person and to have a much better position in society than she had. There was always a huge pressure on me to perform in school, but also to be a performance athlete. As the years passed I faced many mental problems, both due to the abusive environment in which I grew up, but also due to early maturation and the huge expectations placed on my shoulders. Currently, I have not had a stable job for almost 2 years, although I have multiple specializations, I have the feeling that I am the most incompetent person and I suffer from impostor syndrome. It's ironic how I became the opposite of what my parents wanted.

[@Myoa80]

You are amazing. You are beautiful. You are strong. You have everything you need inside of you. You are powerful. You are Worthy. You are loved unconditionally. ❤❤❤❤❤

[@greencare9702]

Thank you!@@Myoa80

[@user-wv6ky7nt1r]

The disappointed/angry fairy remind me of Eris the Greek goddess of strife and discord. Thank you for the food for thoughts.

[@deebaker9199]

I read somewhere years ago that there were originally 13 planetary houses of the zodiac and that that is how 13 came to be associated with the religion of Wicca and the High Magical Arts also. Very interesting, thankyou 🙏😊

[@Serena_Clara_Luna]

52:07 OMG! It was like you were describing our home when my spouse came home from the being on the road! Our house was always full of the kids with their friends until they stopped leaving for extended periods of time for work. They stopped leaving because they chose to do the same job just local. They said they wanted to be home more, but mostly cranky when home unless everything was as they thought it should be

[@user-rb3bs3xi3b]

Thank you from Belarus)!

[@windrock]

Yes, after a number of years in the wilderness roaming and somewhat asleep there is a waking up now. A deep process in my middle age after. Hi team, could you write that link to the fairytale group please?

[@Cronezonetarot]

13 does relate to the natural world. There are 13 lunar cycles each year and typically, women have 13 mentstrual cycles each year.. This is a deeply feminine number.

[@don-eb3fj]

Exactly. The median length of the human menstrual cycle is 28 days × 13 = 364 - every 4th year gives an extra day and night, whereas our 12-month calendar steals a day and night every 4th year. This also correlates with a 13-sign zodiac. I find it interesting that the constellation Ophiuchus (the Serpent Bearer) and the Staff of Asclepius (the immortalized healer) were rejected and the Caduceus, associated with Hermes (war and commerce) was adopted as the symbol for modern medicine. Hmmm. In the story the King and Queen dishonor the Feminine by setting only 12 places- this correlates with the 12 month calendar. Many Pagan societies used a dual system of timekeeping, both solar and lunar, something I'm currently attempting to research and that perhaps we should consider reinstating to acknowledge the importance of both the Masculine and Feminine. Also, this makes me think about the 3 Feminine archetypes of Maiden, Mother, and Crone- the spindle is obviously associated with the spinster, an old woman who was never a mother- her "labor" is to spin her days away unmarried and childless (a barren life). By the prick of the spindle the Maiden's transformation to Motherhood is denied and she is also left as if barren of life, along with the entire household, to be brought back to life much later when she is sought out and kissed (embraced) by the young Masculine hero, the Masculine and Feminine in harmony. This seems symbolically "predictive" of the sterility of our modern Abrahamic-dominated societies that disregard the Feminine, and it seems clear to me that the (crown of?) Thorns of enmity between the sexes need pruning so Roses can bloom again.

[@carolorber6009]

'Help our children, or ourselves, avoid an evil fate.' Would that be fear, delusional thinking, or a sign of hope ? Ultimately, can that be really helpful for the child ?

[@PhatLvis]

And then the question: If the last wisewoman had final say, why not simply reverse or cancel the furious, spurned wisewoman's curse? Instead, she allowed it to Partly take effect and only mitigated its force. She in a sense Respected the outraged wisewoman's wishes, but adjudged them harsh and excessive, and so scaled them back, softening their impact. (Actually, when you think about it, the 13th wisewoman Does completely Nullify the curse, as from Sleeping Beauty's point of view - as well as that of her family and the court, even the horses, etc. - it is as though nothing happened at all; they all just woke up the next day - unaged, unmalnourished, unaffected by the elements of a hundred years, etc. But of course this view tends to preempt much of the tale's great symbolism.)

[@PhatLvis]

There's also the question of why the 12th wisewoman - if she was so wise - acted rashly instead of waiting to place her hex last, so it Couldn't be countered. There could be symbolism in this detail (though probably not); in any event, it's crucial to the tale - for if the offended wisewoman Had waited, the story is a simple tragedy, ending with the pin-prick.

[@SalimaHussain]

❤❤❤❤

[@leahlockhart8499]

As always, a fascinating discussion! Though I kept wondering why you didn't approach something that seemed obvious to me, concerning the symbolism of the spindle! I wondered if it isn't because you're American, and have hesitancy to approach it in speech? You explored the onset of puberty and menses, and wanting to protect your child from their destiny; the Freudian approach of phallic symbolism... but what about.... not wanting her to discover and touch with her finger, her own little "spindle"? God knows that has caused parents in some cultures to remove it altogether! (and this usually done by women, as well!). There is a sense of agency, and risk, that discovering your sexuality involves. A woman awakened to her sexuality only through the actions of a man will remain loyal to that man, and unaware of her own ability to fulfil her desires (of the desires even existing...) if she doesn't find her spindle, in the dark isolation of her room....

[@handelibaral]

👍🍂🐈

[@ninecatsmagee8384]

Epigenetics?

[@theotherpen15]

Going off the sexual interpretation I think may really be the "point" here. Like if you look at the start of the story it's all about infertility in a literal AND psychological sense. The loss of life force. But the instinctual self, which is all about survival and in a sense preservation and IGNITION of life and life force energy promises new life. I wonder if that's sort of the reason it's 13 wise women as opposed to 12. 12 for the regularness but 13 that allows it to grow, which is... Well sex. As "nasty" as it is it still is the foundation and that which creates life. And with sleeping beauty herself, with Lisa mentioning that spindles are chopstick level sharp (dull), i feel like that suggests just the degree of fertility lying with sleeping beauty. 🤣 Like just potentially bursting with energy. And with that too, biologically what is the difference between a girl and a woman... Blood... Life force. Then looking at the end of the story it's a prince and princess, two youthful fertile people as opposed to the beginning where it's two elderly people. And even the flowers at the end and Joseph using the words, salt, preserved, and frozen just makes me think this is about winter to spring, death and rebirth, return of life force, renewal. And renewal itself is a very feminine and moon based theme. Once in a blue (13th moon) something new can come forth And in a less sexual way... Overall may just be a lack of joy for life. Like I'm reminded of one of y'all's past videos about sex specifically and the epithet Lisa read at the start where the idea that sex isn't just the act itself but rather all the "good" parts of life. Fun, joy, beauty, community, family, friends, relationships, passion, art etc. Perhaps in a sense that's what's this is also about and what really "went to sleep"

[@PeterGregoryKelly]

"...reptilian depths...' (in relation to frogs) A bit of a nit pick but make that "amphibian depths".