Do What Thou Wilt? Freedom from Sin or Freedom to Sin | Mohammad Fadel, Hasan Spiker & Paul Williams

Scholars Mohammad Fadel and Hasan Spiker discuss the tensions and connections between Islamic and liberal ethics at a Zaytuna College event in Berkeley, California, on February 4, 2023. Moderated by Paul Willams of Blogging Theology.
Chapters:
0:16 Intro to Topic and Speakers
6:28 Moderator's Intro
8:23 Reconciling Autonomy & Islam
17:32 Hierarchy and Freedom
24:03 Islam and Hierarchy
29:12 John Locke, John Stuart Mill, and Islam
40:26 John Rawls and the Necessity of Virtue
44:26 The Role of Satan
47:30 The Crisis of Liberal Legitimacy
50:25 Islam and Negative Freedom
55:18 The Necessity of Privacy
58:06 Decriminalization of Homosexuality in the UK
1:02:10 Summary of Each Position
1:08:28 Recommendations for Further Reading

[@BloggingTheology]

An intellectually stimulating conversation between two distinguished scholars.

[@koroglurustem1722]

Moderated by a fine English man with perfect questions!

[@MZF462]

Prof. Fadel's measured approach to the topic is excellent and thought provoking.

[@coachdebruyns]

Equality before the law as a basis for Shariah does not conflict with the presence and necessity of hierarchy.

[@jonathannadeau6218]

The “Do What Thou Wilt” idea that, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone…, is obviously false. Doing what thou wilt definitely always hurt at least your own soul.

[@paulthomas281]

@jonathannadeau6218 Yes. Doing anything and everything might and would hurt one's soul. But it is for individuals to decide what they will do and learn from it.

[@Notarabbit911]

You don't even know what you are talking about

[@kamilkarnale6010]

Great title! Great video!

[@truthinknowledge8312]

Paul Williams moderation was superb and insightful. It provided the calmness needed and brought out the best in the respected speakers.

[@omarkn4371]

We need this.

[@fickleminded911]

Really happy for Paul Williams to be here mashallah.

[@abdel-minemmustafa1651]

"If you have no regard for ḥayaa; (modesty/shame/reservation), then do what you will."

[@user-tu2jw7vu7m]

Brother Paul 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤ Alhamdullah Allah has blessed Brother Paul with moderate fame and recognition.

[@lklklklklklklklklklklklklkl]

What an eye-opener! I'm watching this for the second time, taking notes of the names mentioned

[@malenedietl3369]

46:08 great, that brother Paul brought this up about the unseen world and the powers there, like Shaitan. Funny, just a few moments before it came up I thought:"When will the aspect of the unseen be talked about?"

[@web3982]

Al-Slam Alaycom, my gratitude and appreciation to all members of the panel and to Zaytuna College. I'm a subscriber of Blogging Theology and a devoted viewer of Brother Paul Williams great presentations. Many thanks to all.

[@ckotty]

Gentlemen, what a delightful conversation. Could have listened for hours 👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽

[@buzzbarbhuiyan5945]

Absolutely fabulous discussion! Nuances that offshoots from these intelligent and wise conversation, needs more participation, discussion and to be amplified. Helps eliminate various cobwebs that clutters ones mind& understanding.

[@redihaderi8188]

I've been following Zaytuna scholars for uears now, and recently Paul's channel BT (a must subscribe I would say). Couldn't be happier to listen to this wonderful discussion, and for Paul. We want more of Paul moderating these topics! May Allah bless all of you for your service!

[@usamaansari8732]

Amazing to see brother Paul form starting BT and now here !! Wow ! Masha Allah

[@IbnThabitVerlag]

This talk was so intellectually nurturing and spiritually fulfilling! Jazakallahu khayran

[@ahxmadnur]

Thank you.

[@mota307]

Very deep and interesting discussion, but I have to say, first!

[@umardikko1076]

A fascinating and insighful discussion - Zaytuna College + Paul William, I didn't expect anything less!

[@budidayaberuk6144]

Alhamdulillah, thank you for the wealth of knowledge in this discussion.

[@akbaram6764]

Alhamdulillah sangat, too.

[@fatimah9202]

Jazaa kAllahu khairah fid daarain

[@a4482921]

Insightful panel MashaAllah, here from Blogging Theology

[@safwanmuhaimin8263]

The Role of Satan in Today's World from brother Paul's clip starts at 44:30

[@aacc5984]

Thanks brother paul for the great content and creativity.

[@lordtaseen2947]

Mashallah great work from Br Paul and the guests

[@Buthyful]

Thank you, informative and beautiful intellectual conversation.

[@faysal8597]

Amazing discussion with a great panel

[@asadat7181]

Very profound and elucidating discussion

[@Zeee530]

Great discussion. Well done everyone

[@asifjavaid8348]

MashaAllah beautiful Academic discussion exactly what we need ❤

[@teenaakhir9105]

Jazakallahukhairan brothers ..May Allah SWT rewards you immensely in this Life and Hereafter Ameen 👏👏👍

[@asadat7181]

Keep up the excellent work Renovatio! MashAllah

[@tashifjilani1732]

jazakallah khair

[@user-el6xm2pk7x]

Amazing insights

[@aft7837]

Alhamdulillah for islam ☪️ ❤

[@bobbobbing4381]

A really good discussion. Learnt loads. Thanks!

[@nmath9665]

What an insightful discussion? Thank you for sharing it.

[@RenovatioJournal]

Thanks for listening

[@mms7704]

Very nice… heartwarming to see modern Muslims engaging in a seriously honest intellectual conversation rather the standard “Scholars” fetishized Mumbo jumbo

[@purekhizi]

Well said

[@sarahhajarbalqis]

36:02 Governance. Principles. Preservations.

[@husamabou-shaar9740]

I must say I am a bit disappointed, I like the moderator and at least one of the speakers, sorry if this sounds bitter, maybe I am wrong, feel free to correct me but I find many points in the talk to be a desperate attempt to sound appealing to some non-believers who call themselves Liberals, while watering down and even sometimes twisting the religion of Islam. As some examples of troubling ideas: 1) Saying things like in Islamic tradition you are born knowing nothing (Ignoring clear statements in Quraan and Hadith in regards to fitra, just to say this lines up with what some enlightenment philosopher said, as if Europe enlightenment has any moral value) , 2) Saying that in Islamic tradition it is okay to be non-heterosexual without distinguishing between the desire and the act, and saying the problem is with making it normal, even sounding like "just leave us heterosexuals alone, please!" 3) Saying that in Islam there is no hierarchy and Fiqh is flat (Clear contradiction to Quraan and Hadith) and proving it by quoting a story showing accountability served to a Muslim governor (effectively doing an equivocation fallacy, equivocating between "hierarchy" and "transgression / non-accountability")... and to mention Donald Trump in this context, really? Is this political? It sounds like it. May Allah guide us all and grant us sincerity.

[@koroglurustem1722]

Exactly, I don't agree with Mohammed's positions. He twisted many things. He was right when he said he is a dabbler when it comes to philosophy.

[@eatingeatingeating]

He said fiq is flat in terms of equality among Muslims. The slave is given the same food and clothing. The Caliph is the servant of the people and has no greater right before the law. The law is the arbiter and each Muslim is equal before the law. Even in the prayer - we stand side by side and each person cannot save his place in front of another. Flat = equality before Allah's law.

[@TheGreenPillCoach7]

@@eatingeatingeating Even the notion of equality among Muslims needs delineation. It co-exists with hierarchy, specializations, and the mandates of authority. The Caliph is the servant of the people -- who is to be obeyed and has the authority to implement various measures even if the people don't necessarily like it, as long as it is following the parameters of the shariah. The husband is the 'servant of the family' and can restrict his wife from leaving the home unnecessarily. Standing side-by-side in prayer vs. being chosen to lead the prayer based on conditions and the prayer being invalid behind Imams who fail to meet those conditions. These are all considerations that need to be mentioned today in an age that is being systematically corrupted by woke nonsense. The vast majority of millennial youth are already deeply brainwashed by it, and to fail to contextualize language like 'equality' does nothing but reinforces this propaganda. Equality in Islam is utterly incompatible with equality in wokeism via critical hermeneutics.

[@coachdebruyns]

For point 2 you missed that it was against the backdrop of the discussion on privacy. It wasn't an attempt to legitimise non heterosexual behaviour.

[@aal-e-ahmadhussain3123]

Salam. Check out Surah Nahl 16:78 وَاللَّهُ أَخْرَجَكُم

[@dinarkania7274]

How could there is no hierarchy in Fiqh? It is so obvious, there is hierarcy , eq. in the source of Islamic Law....in the qualification of jurist or fuqoha... many more....maybe the Prof Muhammad thought that the hierarcy is only political... in fact it is not. So hierarchy is important....

[@Notarabbit911]

Do what you will, if you think that means freedom to sin then obviously you want to sin.

[@clumsydad7158]

rights only with responsibilities ... all else is madness

[@koroglurustem1722]

I don't agree with Mohammed when he said figh is flat hierarchically. Obedience to ameer is in the Quran. Khalif being the rasool (Errand boy) is in terms of moral obligation. Authority comes with responsibility. You cannot confuse the two.

[@purekhizi]

I don't think you understood what he meant. There is such a thing as hush al-zann. I happen to know he would agree with your point. Don't limit the possible signification of words to just the first thing that comes to your mind. It's not scholarly.

[@eatingeatingeating]

Fiq is flat because it treats the Caliph and the ordinary Muslim according to the Law of Allah. The Caliph, if he does not lead the prayer, prays alongside the ordinary Muslim. The slave is given the same food and clothing of the slave owner. The believers are equal.

[@JohnDoe-nb2np]

Sound like progressive Muslims

[@karimb972]

I have a feeling you did not understand what they said. That is if you listened to the whole video. There was nothing "progressive" about their stances. It was a defence of traditional islam rather.