Do you really need to learn scales, or are you just wasting your life?

lessons and classes at andyslessons.com

[@alexhage4935]

Very much needed to hear this thank you Andy

[@kennethrobinson6771]

Thanks Andy , this lesson really turned the light bulb on for me

[@JerryScribner]

Outstanding lesson as usual Andy!!

[@8charlier]

Very useful, thanks

[@jerryrobbins5013]

that was a pretty version of that. and a fine lesson to boot.

[@PHAN226]

I hit subscribe before the fourth bar of that intro. Damn dude, absolutely beautiful playing and a great lesson.

[@mandohat]

Thanks!!!

[@davestagner]

If you’re learning to play melodies, you’re learning scales, whether you think you are or not, because melodies are made of scales. And in a music like bluegrass, which is pretty rigidly diatonic (ooh, a theory word!), when you learn different melodies in the same key, you’re experiencing scales. Songs are not unique snowflakes that are unlike any other song! So deliberately practicing scales makes sense, because it’s transferable knowledge that will work in songs you haven’t yet learned. And learning the underlying notes of a scale means you can learn different fingerings and different positions to play the same thing (and different octaves!). Oh, you can play St Anne’s Reel in D? Great! Can you play it at the seventh fret? The notes are all there. That’s what learning scales can do. Improvising well adds another layer. You want to be able to hit out-of-scale numbers to add tension and color - blue thirds, chromatics, etc. More scales. And the “good” and “avoid” notes within a scale vary from chord to chord. So you learn your major pentatonics, which are a subset of the major scale. Or you don’t learn them, and wind up playing mostly the notes of the scale (with some clams and notes you should have avoided), only not knowing what you’re doing. But for learning general principles that apply to all songs, scales aren’t enough. You need to learn moves and licks to do common chord changes. Songs are full of I-IV, V-I, IV-I-ii, and other sequences (look! More of that theory stuff!), and if you learn a lot of different ways to do those changes - free of any particular song - you have ways that work everywhere. Anyway, the point is you’re learning scales, and practicing scales, whether you think you’re doing that or not. So focusing on these things that work everywhere makes sense.

[@alan4sure]

That's pretty well explained. If you frequently listen to typical breaks other people play, (on yt, for example) your brain should remember how they sound and you then use some of the same sequences or parts of them while avoiding notes that don't sound right. Whether you know which scale you're actually playing is irrelevent, though somewhat interesting after the fact. And if you need tabs, you won't do well at jams. All those tabbed breaks you learned may not work in any other single song that gets called. So much for reading tabs. Lol

[@greekflatpicker]

Yes sir !

[@wheninroamful]

Just found your channel. Subbed cuz this vid. Ive been a fingerpicking for 25 years and just picked up a pick for the first time a couple months ago, determined to be a Flatpicking Master, or an amateur, haha.... so all of it helps.. thanks for putting this out there for all us folks, much appreciated.

[@wheninroamful]

btw, that a D 41 yeah? I just got an HD28V, wanted a Martin for 20 plus years and this might be the one I die with/my son gets.

[@mandohat]

Thanks for jumping in!

[@mandohat]

And, yes, it's a D41 from 2017 before Martin revoiced the bracing

[@tuaacoustic]

ไพเราะมากครับ

[@FolkSongsEtAl]

So, I sure find I use those blue botes to very quickly put me in the new scale/xhord.

[@somenchakraborty5870]

The intro was awesome... please can you tell me which pick you are using...

[@mandohat]

Thanks! My preferred pick is a Dunlop Ultex 1.0

[@somenchakraborty5870]

@@mandohat ok thanks for the reply...

[@FlatpickingJournal]

Intervals?

[@michaelwebster8389]

I really can't remember scales, but once I'm in one, I know where to go. I would like to know what I was doing, but I suspect it's just not something that I'm ever be able to do from rote learning. On the other hand, I've learned a whole lot of patterns in the open position that are related to the different chords, and they're more important to me in terms of finding the next scale to play in. Unfortunately I just can't learn scales. It's all about patterns for me. Nice sounding strings - did you just change them?

[@michaelwebster8389]

Of course what you're saying is very relevant to all of us. But it is weird how so many of us have mental blocks, or weird cognitive machinery that works differently to other people.

[@mandohat]

Lol finally!!

[@michaelwebster8389]

@@mandohat I confess to being extremely drunk when I wrote that rubbish...

[@mandohat]

@@michaelwebster8389 ha!

[@keithchilvers7434]

I think it's really important to learn the main scales we're likely to use, but there are ways and ways of doing this. We tend to learn a scale as just - do, ra, me, fah, so, la, te, do, - which I know is necessary to get to know where the notes are on the fretboard, but you've never heard a song that went like that. I borrowed an idea from the way many jazz players practice scales - going up and down the scale in thirds (ie. do, me, so, te.....) this sounds much more melodic and more like something you might actually play, and when you look at why it is because you are now playing arpeggios of the three main chords of the scale, the very patterns the songs is based around, and so much better practice for improvising on a melody.

[@bsnf-5]

Listen to players like JJ Cale, or Clarence Gatemouth Brown. They rock, right? Now ask yourselfa question - do you think they cared about scales or patterns? And there you have your answer :)

[@mandohat]

This video is about knowing basic major and minor scales so you can find and play melodies. That doesn't sound worthwhile? All piano players know basic major and minor scales. Why shouldn't we?

[@bsnf-5]

​@@mandohatof course, I was just giving my point of view. I spent a lot of time learning scales in the past, and I still to this day feel like learning something new, every now and then. It's very crucial for progress - learning something more than your average minor pentatonic, with optional blue note. But my whole point is that in the end, that's not what music is about - and that's especially when we talk about guitar improvising, in genres different than like bebop jazz, or whatever. Bluegrass, country, blues - they share a common language that we all love, and many players prove that following your ears is often much more valuable than just scales and music theory.

[@alan4sure]

I don't really spend much time worrying about what the scale is. I hear appropriate notes in my head and my hand usually knows where to go. The shape and position of my hand/fingers on the fretboard is more relevant to me than a particular scale. I can't read music or tabs either and don't care one bit.

[@BeyondTigerMilk]

"I can't read tabs and I dont care" A five year old could read tabs. You're just more concerned with letting people know you dont "need" them.

[@alan4sure]

@@BeyondTigerMilk I manage fine without tabs. I don't need or want to replicate someone's else's break note for note, I can improvise. Some players do need to replicate, obviously--- Maybe you, for example.😁 always asking for tabs because they lack a musical ear. And need a recipe for hotdogs, too. Lol

[@tristanng7928]

@@alan4sure hi alan, as someone trying to learn improv in guitar, can i ask what was your learning progression like that got you to the level you’re at right now

[@alan4sure]

@@tristanng7928 the improv should be based around the melody, and I had a fairly good memory for melodies since young. Once you have the melody in your head, practice so you can replicate what you hear in your head on the guitar. Exact isn't necessary, but close. Trial and error finding the right finger placements at first, but with repetition, your brain learns what the note sounds like at various spots on the fretboard. And when you can replicate something close to the melody, you start to add slides, double stops, G runs, pull-offs etc. I learn those by slowing down yt bluegrass vids, listening and watching closely to gather little bits of what they do. It gets your ear accustomed to the sound of common sequences of notes. I suppose much of them are of the pentatonic scale, but I never knew or needed to know that. What you hear other pickers playing, then remember and try to replicate is more important. It takes time and hard work but once you starting getting the hang of it, your "vocabulary" of little runs, fills, pull-offs etc will work in the melodies of many, many songs with those same chord changes. You'll be far more versatile than those ppl learning breaks for that one song by tabs. And then that one song may not even come up at a jam.

[@BeyondTigerMilk]

@@alan4sure You're missing my point, while also proving it. Learn to read.

[@frankcline66]

Scales take way too much away from the melody, it ends up being what I call running notes like (Tony Rice.) The CAGED system enhances the melody so much better. I've been playing lead bluegrass guitar for 51 years now, so I was never taught scales or even the CAGED system. I was taught to make your music understandable, then came this era Ricenomics. If Tony had played most songs solo with no band behind him. You couldn't walk in during a mid solo and recognized one song from another. After KZbin came along I realized I was already doing the CAGED method and people love it more. This so called new bluegrass today just doesn't do bluegrass justice, it's what I call popgrass. Drop the scales, all those hours of running scales just takes away from learning the true art of playing bluegrass. Playing the melody of the song don't look as fancy as knowing scales, but when you have played as long as I have you learn it's all about the song not how you look playing it.

[@jimmccarley9609]

Frank, you make some good points. We are not all in the same place in our musical journeys. I am 62, and learned all the theory stuff 40+ years ago. Some folks need to explore/answer questions about what they don't yet know, then eventually find their way back to just playing the songs. I have versions of songs if I'm alone, (thumb picking). If I'm in a group, others play bass, and rhythm, so my role is different. What I like about Andy's playing is that he plays through the chords a lot more than most. Too many, in my opinion, machine gun 1/8, or 1/16 notes for the sake of being fast, and go so far out on a limb, the listener gets lost. We are old Frank, but hopefully not too in the way!