4 mistakes people make when learning to play flatpicking or bluegrass guitar

lessons and classes at andyslessons.com

[@keithchilvers7434]

Everyone is different and what works for one person doesn't work for another. A hangover from fingerpicking rag-time in jug bands in the 1960 left me for years with a pinky permanently welded to the pick guard. A couple of years ago I tried floating, following a player/teacher I had a great deal of admiration for. At first I was stumbling round like a blind man without a dog, missing strings all over the place. This same teacher had a set of string spacing exercises and after working with them for a few weeks I was hitting the strings again. Once I had mastered that I was able to do exactly what you talk about in your third point about pick strokes, to make my pick stokes bigger and freer. It may not work for everyone but for me the move to a floating right hand has hugely freed up my picking and also improved my tone control.

[@demolitionwilliams7419]

I love how much space you give when the feel requires it. The cleanliness of your playing allows the space while previous notes continue to ring. Love your style, my friend! I'm learning a lot from your channel. Thank you and keep putting out videos plz!

[@waylonfingers]

Love it! Man I miss our lessons! Happy new year! You are my teacher!

[@DannyBrooks1]

Thanks for addressing the right hand position.

[@roccomiers477]

Just watched my first video from your channel. A lot of good points were made and they were presented in a relatable way. Thanks!

[@millerjeff]

Thanks Andy

[@user-mk2fj6gj9t]

Just what I needed. Thank you.

[@bdm50]

Thanks for reinforcing the fact that I don't need to anchor. Some KZbin teachers say it's a must but what works of one is not always best for another. Same goes with alternate picking. Great lesson!!!

[@jamesdunne5178]

This is really great solid advice.

[@johnmurret2290]

Such great points and so thoughtfully delivered.

[@mandohat]

Thanks!

[@speedflash9347]

Try this while holding the little finger down, make it two 8th notes. Down on the 1st string. Up on the 6th string. I can't do it. If you want to able to go anywhere to anywhere at any time, then you can't hold your finger down on the guitar. You can do some real wild cross-picking, especially after learning beginning banjo, if you get around that way.

[@RobertoDallaVecchia]

great stuff Andy, very well said!!

[@robtsologtr]

Re: alternate pickstrokes. I stress pick direction is determined by the rhythm, not the geography of the instrument. I have students first tap their foot in an exadurated way. Foot down on beat, up at the midpoint between beats. Internalize the beat. Feel the groove. Now, the pick hand mirrors the foot direction. Having the pick direction opposite to the foot is almost impossible. It’s patting your head and rubbing your stomach. Be a headbanger. Get your whole body in sync with the beat and you will automatically have correct pick direction.

[@etherneedle]

Alternatively, knowing when to switch up and syncopate against the downbeat can make your playing experience more interesting once you understand how to play

[@artsymamanana]

I am not a good lead player, but rhythm is the most needed thing in any band or jam. I get a lot of play time.

[@demolitionwilliams7419]

That's a great idea

[@jameslifetimelearner]

Rhythm yes,and picking hand control.Setup is super important and double downs and sweeps give us the gift of speed with less work.

[@rejeanbeauchamp6126]

Very useful advices 😊 Thanks a bunch!

[@karlsmith3281]

Very diplomatic about the floating wrist. On a revved up electric, palm muting is essential, but acoustically I try and float when i can fit it in, but most of the time I found my knuckle of the picking hand is gently touching the guitar. Cool lesson bro.

[@gam1471]

A very tasty 'I am a Pilgrim' Andy, and I wish advice like yours had been around when I began flatpicking in the 1960s. The biggest mistake I made was trying to change my right hand technique. I started out with my wrist off the bridge, and lightly resting the ring and pinky fingers. About four years later, somehow I got it into my head that it was better to pick using Dan Crary's method. I struggled with this for several years, and it just didn't work for me. I returned to my original method, and I've stayed with it for over forty years. Floating the hand would never be for me! I'd say to anyone - find what you're comfortable with, and stick with it. Don't change mid-stream; that would be a big mistake.

[@JordanSheppardMusic]

Thanks for this! Great video!

[@lewbrill9983]

Great advice…thanks brother

[@DanielWilsonSR]

Thank you!

[@grorob52]

wow that's a beautiful box you have there. Beautiful deep sound nice lesson

[@ambroseharper8316]

Good solid advice 👌

[@flatpickindan]

I love this Andy, thank you. The last bit is probably the most important even for folks who have been playing for many years.

[@mandohat]

Thanks Dan! I miss playing with you. We should find a time to jam this winter.

[@Shroomer47]

Couldn't agree more with this. I am NOT Billy Strings OR Tony Rice 🤣😂

[@WysteriaGuitar]

Good advice, especially about learning the RHYTHM

[@anitadavideduo]

That's right Andy!

[@cburns3256]

Good stuff !

[@harpbaby1]

Thanks Andy.....I'm a pinky person, but I sometimes think it would be better to use my wrist, instead of my whole arm... You're right. There's a lot of different information out there, even from good players. Great tips!

[@twazoo2921]

Thanks Andy! Great points. The floating hand vs. the light posting hand is something I go back and forth on. I usually will lightly post but if I need to do a quick “fill”, I can pick faster for that brief period when an float. Strumming speed on fast songs while posting is a challenge also. LOL. It’s all a journey. Thanks for the post

[@mandohat]

I don't post when I strum, most people switch back and forth when they do rhythm and lead.

[@sammfshields]

Thanks, great tips

[@keithchilvers7434]

To be fair you said it was going to be a bit controversial.... I'm going to pick up what you said about recording one's own rhythm track. It's something we used to have to do before the glory days of KZbin and there is something to be said for it, but to me the point of Strum Machine and of jam tracks in general is to practice, get used to, and gain confidence in playing with other people (when you haven't got any other people there). Recording your own backing track is fine but it means you are playing to your own timing and rhythm. When you get out either to a jam or playing in a band you have to be able to play to someone else's timing and rhythm. To me that is the reason to practice with jam tracks.

[@Shroomer47]

C'mon guys and gals sub to Andy! This dude deserves your subscription!!! One of the best bluegrass instructional channels on KZbin! If you can't learn something here I just don't know what to tell you...

[@mandohat]

Thanks!

[@jameslifetimelearner]

My current bluegrass guitar hero s are Brian Sutton, Wyatt Rice and Molly Tuttle. Copying any aspect of their techniques would be a win .

[@unkelbud]

Nice picking. very well articulated. That guitar is a cannon.

[@JosephusDalrymple]

Yep. Guilty of mixing up my alternate picking patterns at a minimum. Salient points all around. Thanks!

[@gazicj]

This is super great, and andy is the best! ty sir--godspeed, brotha

[@mandohat]

Good to hear from you, JG!

[@dieselman7453]

Hi my man great lesson I’m a fingerstyle player but I’m starting to flatpick songs like little Sadie and I’m having trouble with building speed and it’s all down from tension in the body the arms mostly .. thanks for answering my question in the video about floating the hand position.. i touch it lightly on the body .. i anchor my pinkie for all my fingerstyle times like windy and warm or baby’s coming home .. thanks for this wonderful video I will be following you from now on this is a priceless video ..thanks and take care so much solid information in this video .. Brian Ireland 🇮🇪🎸🎸🎸

[@jsherrydds]

Andy, you give absolutely the best advice. Every time I click on your channel, I find a pearl I can use for my playing.

[@mandohat]

That's awesome to hear. Thanks for watching!

[@JoshYenne]

So here is what i'd say about the first part... (I teach as well) is that we are doing a physical endeavor not unlike a sport.. and like any physical endeavor one strives for efficiency... and with that comes "smallness" right? I'll ask students if they agree that when they see someone really playing and killing it they look like they barely doing anything and it's nearly effortless. In regards to the pinky... or any part of the hand/body. If we are getting smaller and smaller and more efficient as we get better by definition we are going to be getting super close to the string/bridge/bridge pins etc... I don't care at ALL if a students pinky touches the face of the guitar, or palm touches the bridge pins or the low E or whatevet.. that will happen as you get smaller and tighter... What I VERY VERY much advise against is the PLANTING AND LOCKING and PIVOTING on that point. I equate that to locked knees for a short stop or someone waiting to return a serve in tennis.. etc (every physical endevor has some analogy to this) Often folks will point out someone like Tony Rice.. but actually if you look at Tony you will see his finger may be touching the board but it is NOT firmly locked down and pivoting on it actually. Ditto with every player i've seen that i can think of that is a great player.. if you look closely they are not PLANTING it and pivoting on it... when you do that you lose all kinds of things... the most being flow and ability to react.. but also tone cause if you do that your pick is going to be in different positions on the low E vs high E.... So anyways.. i get your frustration or... whatever you want to call it... 😁 Cause i teach and hear things that have come from the internet a ton as well! I actually don't think "floating" per se is the best thing... I think if you get small enough something is going to be touching the guitar in some way.. I tell students that is FINE (and let your fingers do what they do.. some naturally curl some naturally flail out... don't fight it) but do NOT plant and lock your ANYTHING really. Does that make sense? Does that jive with your general thoughts as well I wonder? Truthfully I just watched your right hand again and this is exactly what you are doing... your pinky is bascially "floating" around the top of the guitar as you play and move your hand.. it just happens to be touchinig it. I feel like locking anything is just a wonderful way to stop good flow in playing. 😄

[@mandohat]

Very thoughtful reply, thanks!

[@jameslifetimelearner]

Agree as posting causes tension. I made the choice to hold the pick with a fist, my fingers lined up for support.If hybrid picking, the fingers return for runs. If I’m confused I think about which string or watch my right hand and memorize the feeling.

[@standbyme6395]

Well said...✌️❤️💪

[@TN-D18]

Excellent advice about having a pick stroke that goes beyond the adjacent string. Great video. 👍

[@mandohat]

Thanks, Roy! Cheers from the Midwest

[@lordofthemound3890]

Yes, that really helped me out! I think I was concentrating on using as little movement as possible and was tensing up as a result.

[@johnr8820]

I see a lot of mandolin players using floating hand technique and I think it looks so good I can do it some tunes but I usually softly anchor my back part of the thumb near the bridge pins..I also try to proactive mostly close fisted although I do enjoy hybrid picking

[@JoshYenne]

And also #2 I see ALLLLLLLLL the time as well.... just memorizing the melody and having NO CLUE what chords are happening.... that doesnt translate at ALL to actually LEARNING the guitar. :-) But you nailed it... see it all the time. I actually nearly NEVER recommend specific tunes for my students.... i always want them to give me a list and then I use THOSE songs (whichever out of the list of songs they send me that helps us learn the guitar in genearl.... I just will use THEIR SONGS they love to achieve that.... this is for a few reason I don't need to go into) But if someone is trying to learn acoustic guitar lead I WILL suggest doing a fiddle tune cause I equate them, and this is actually in ALL seriousness, to Bach etudes. I really think they are.... just like old classical etudes is cues you in on how to take a scale and break it up, rearrange, etc and make it sound like music. Cause every player gets to a point where they basically cans play thorugh a few scale positions but it just sounds like you are playing a scale. :-) anywhow... good video my man.. first time ive seen you. Appreciate it......

[@Hugh_Manitee]

A looper pedal works great for playin a rhythm track down, and then doin lead over. It does have limitations, but it will do wonders for perfecting your timing. Bad timing can ruin a song or make yourself unable to play with anyone else.

[@krautyvonlederhosen]

You have to be able to pick comfortably. If you’re unable to advance or play somehow differently, then change. But as Doc always stated, “you gotta practice like the devil”.

[@BURGRKNG]

About your first point - it's not as ergonomic to plant your pinky and lends a tendency towards creating tension. I think your advice is short sighted in this regard. And 'floating' doesn't mean without a contact point, your contact point is on the forearm on the body of the guitar. Your other advice is very solid, especially the part about 'widening' the pickstroke

[@dinkaboutit4228]

You could ONLY know the chords to the song and be better prepared to improvise than only knowing the TAB without context. I guess I took the long road to flatpicking. It blows my mind that people tackle this stuff cold. *I don't mean that in a sarcastic, "haha goodluck" way. I just mean, like, having an intermediate intermediate level knowledge is what allowed me to watch a flatpicker and think "I grasp pretty much whats happening here... I MIGHT be able to do that." It did NOT occur to me, when I first picked one up, to just learn Wildwood Flower.

[@alan4sure]

I love hearing how a floating hand isn't the end-all technique I need to strive for.😅

[@mandohat]

Nobody did it historicallly. That I can think of.

[@adamkoepke1366]

Great stuff Andrew! Hope all is well! I've taken a step back and have just been focusing on rhythm playing for the past 6 months or so. Still trying to figure out which technique I'm most comfortable with. I started out years ago posting and that''s what feels most comfortable to me, but I feel like there are times when it's a hinderance or a builder of tension in my arm. Still working at finding that happy medium between floating and posting, especially when rhythm playing.

[@mandohat]

Good to hear from you! Yeah, I always float when playing rhythm, for sure!

[@adamkoepke1366]

@@mandohat I'll have to keep working on that for sure. Definitely interested at starting up lessons at some point soon since the craziness of the holidays is over. I'm also about to start my first acoustic guitar build.

[@mandohat]

Awesome!!

[@RolandSchweitzer]

I'd like to say that when I practice with Strum Machine I play the rhythm along with the machine every other or every third time through. I don't, but I could and I will. 🙂

[@nonzer0value]

I actually do this (I play mandolin mostly). I set it to ramp up speed 5bpm every 2 reps through the song. I play chop chords during 1 rep, then melody, etc. Works well for me.

[@stephencindrich6787]

Never heard that about wider picking strokes. I’m assuming it’s a practice concept to get into alternate picking, because it will certainly SLOW you down. Enjoyed your presentation and have subscribed. Thank you.

[@mandohat]

Yes, it helps beginning and intermediate players cross strings while doing alternate picking. Later, we can narrow the technique out and be more "efficient." Wrong pick strokes are really hard to fix later on in this style.

[@ZionForman]

like it

[@SharpEdgeStandardOfficial]

Jake Workman - the fastest and cleanest bluegrass flatpicker I’ve ever heard and his picking hand posture is like a hanging fist he doesn’t rest on anything below his forearm! I can’t even comprehend how he’s able to do that at such high speeds. Unbelievable!

[@mandohat]

I can't figure out how Usain Bolt runs so fast, either.... Jake is the best of the best.

[@bluto212]

He doesn't have much groove though

[@waylonfingers]

I mean are you going this year?

[@bluto212]

My only disagreement is with the wrist resting on the bridge or Top.

[@Jack22VV]

So im in need of some advice. Ive been playing bluegrass guitar for about a year and a half and practicing my butt off, im finally starting to sit on on some gigs and go to jams. One of my best friends is a great guitar player, his biggest influence is slash and he can play lead like no ones business. He has been hounding me to play some bluegrass so i tried showing him some basic rythm to a fiddle tune and he gave up so quick and said bluegrass is stale and boring and all the chords are the same. This really frustrated me because we havent even got to the fun part yet of improvising and the endless possibilities. Im not sure if its worth continuing to try to get the foundation through to him so we can really fly with it. I'm wondering if anyone has dealt with a similar situation and any advice. The way I i feel at this point is that he has to really want to do it and listen to bluegrass to see how beautiful it really is and its not my responsibility to constantly be trying to reinforce that.

[@JohnnyRebKy]

I played every day from 12 to 26 years old. Quit playing for many years. Im 40 now and its like i totally lost it well. I remember how to pick the tunes but my hands have lost it. Its like starting all over again. I can hardly strum along and hang onto a pick! Its so frustrating knowing HOW to play but losing the physical coordination of it 😫. I know how to play lead stuff but my rythem has went to hell

[@Tattooed_piper1990]

Its funny how some flatpickers are like you need to play this this way and don't rest your hand on the pickgaurd I play both bluegrass and old time fiddle and grew up playing guitar and now I'm just getting into flatpicking and I have come across all kinds of players weather its guitar or fiddle you do what's right for you and what works for you I know some fiddle players that are incredible musicians but have really weird bow holds and same goes for flatpickers

[@mandohat]

Yup

[@ThomasVammenJensen]

When it comes to picking Brad Davis does exactly as you describe as wrong. He calls it double down up and it seems to work for him.

[@mandohat]

You're right--but Brad is one of the best guitar players on earth. This advice is for the majority of beginning and intermediate bluegrass guitarists, and is a commonly accepted technique among flatpickers. In my experience, it helps people of normal talent to play bluegrass better. There are always exceptions, though, and if someone else figures out a way that works for them, that's great

[@Jackson15157]

You have to have a solid grasp on the fundamental “rules” before you should start breaking them. I’m sure Brad would agree with this. He is a master at traditional d/u/d/u along with developing a new take on pick strokes.

[@mikegraham4513]

Why does the index finger of my picking hand hurt after playing for an hour or so?

[@mandohat]

Hmmmm.....I guess it could be holding the pick too tight. Do you hold it on the side or on the pad of the finger?

[@mikegraham4513]

@@mandohat The pad. I tend to manipulate the pick more with my finger and thumb than with my wrist which I think is my downfall. Up picking seems to exacerbate the issue. Maybe I hold the pick too tightly.

[@johnmarler6735]

@@mikegraham4513 Your thumb is way stronger than your index finger. It's probably causing a good bit of stress on the index finger joint. One possible fix would be to keep your middle finger next to your index to give the joint more support. Just an Idea.

[@ronnieedwards5550]

Just for context let me say I've been flatpicking over 50 years professionally off and on I play everything from fiddle tunes to Dawg music all of Tony Rice's Bluegrass and his Spacegrass stuff. I've taught a lot of people to flatpick in the past, some names you would know if you keep up with Bluegrass. This guy is speaking the truth this notion that the best right hand technique is to not touch the bridge or pickguard with your pinky might work for some like Bryan Sutton but for the majority of people that method will diminish your control greatly. I lightly brush the bridge pins and plant the heel of my hand for much greater control. I think Bryan Sutton is who made this technique popular and it works for him but he also plays a lot of up and down phrases where as Tony Rice's pick is all over the place 3 down 1 up 4 down 2 up lots of sweep picking where control is paramount. Listen to the triplets at the end of Rice's solo on "Honey you don't know my mind" off California Autumn album and try to do that without planting your heel or pinky. Control of the right hand is huge in flatpicking especially if you're playing super fast which Bluegrass often requires. So

[@mandohat]

Thanks for chiming in!

[@aubreynoftall3830]

you can pick pretty good but what kindve a dull song is that?

[@mandohat]

Lol, thanks. It's "I am a Pilgrim." It's a bluegrass standard. If you don't like mine, go look up Clarence White or Merle Travis playing it.

[@tomcoryell]

If the notes are coming out clean and in time, that’s what matters.

[@mandohat]

That's true. But also it's important if someone wants to play at a higher speed, that their technique could scale up. A lot of people can't make the jump in speed because the technique that's ok at a moderate speed won't translate to a higher speed. Then they get frustrated, and realize they need to break bad habits.

[@tomcoryell]

@@mandohat Ha! I was just coming back to say that beginners should follow experienced player’s advice so that they don’t invest too much time creating bad habits they later have to break. You beat me to it! Good catch and well done! You are so right.

[@mandohat]

@@tomcoryell yup! You know what's up!

[@waylonfingers]

Andy I have a license in a car now you’re going to Winfield next year?

[@mandohat]

Will probably take another year off!

[@waylonfingers]

I want to start studying with you again man so I can get better

[@mandohat]

The class I am teaching called "beyond licks" is really helpful in understanding bluegrass guitar and breaks down to only $30 a lesson. You might like that!

[@nanciannecianci1784]

You should have mentioned that David Grier, one of the greatest Bluegrass players in the world, floats his hand.

[@mandohat]

David kind of hovers his wrist above the bridge pins. When I've seen him play up close, it looks to me like he might have planted his wrist when he started, and then at some point, it became so comfortable that he didn't need that point of contact anymore. David has also probably out-practiced any guitar player on the planet. He's truly the very best flatpicker alive today.

[@dharmaofdog7676]

Never quite understood the somewhat arrogant debate w/Float vs. Pinky Anchor. That goes for occasionally glancing down at your Guitar. IMHO, whatever makes one a better Player is what determines style & technique. I mean, in light of the fact that our Planet is basically falling apart, bottom line, who cares?!

[@alan4sure]

Plus it's all about having fun.😊

[@timjones3423]

I believe John Prine floats/floated his hand on his rhythm. I’m sure it just became natural.

[@mandohat]

Well, everyone floats on rhythm. I should clarify--the advice that people are hearing right now which is floating their right hand to play bluegrass-style flatpicking guitar runs, which is very difficult, and not necessary. By all means, keep floating on rhythm

[@michaelscheller6884]

I loved John Prine, but this discussion is about bluegrass flat picking. JP was not that.

[@timjones3423]

Sorry, wasn’t thinking correctly when I made the comment