Dockside is Banned, Now What? | cEDH

[@LemorasCards]

What do you think about the new ban list changes? How does your deck hold up now? Let me know down below!

[@wolfgtod]

I played Korvold. I probably have to retire my entire deck at this point.

[@TheOrros]

I bet the ppl on the committee cashed in before doing this..

[@sharkmanyt4431]

Horrible

[@tylerharpley1298]

I hope you feel justified from this @lemora the cEDH rc approach was SO much better than this absolutely tone deaf announcement from the RC

[@bernharddollfuss6849]

the crypt and the lotus bannings are stupid… people lost a lot of money, Lgs lost money.

[@PubStompMTG]

Sorry for your loss Korvold players

[@jaybiggie5843]

This loss cuts deep for the cursed kings.

[@licenetospam]

Korvold littaraly having a yuligy before they close the discord I'm in

[@jacizzle55]

Time to try out Food Chain, as well as Chain of Smog/Storm-Kiln Artist/Witherbloom Apprentice

[@Saltymoles]

@@jacizzle55food chain has been in most lists already

[@joebias6706]

Only gave cedh a shot because of Korvold. Can't bring myself to play anything besides Korvold, so I feel as though I've been effectively banned from the format.

[@VeilXI]

Feels like a list made to protect a kitchen table battlecruiser meta that didn’t need protecting. High Power casual is a lot less fun and high power now. Red in cEDH is in shambles. Korvold, Magda, etc. is looking rough. Welcome to Dimir winter. cEDH RC is looking very appealing.

[@koreyg8552]

Magda isn’t affected. The dwarves made the treasures . Korvold and dargo decks got hosed

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@koreyg8552Magda gets affected by not having a 2 mana win on the spot card anymore

[@koreyg8552]

@@sharkmanyt4431 the deck functions fine without dockside. Its decks that revolve it’s entirely gameplay that gets hosed . I hardly ever see dockside even be played in actual gameplay because they have to draw into it or like gamble. It was not a card you can consistently get

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@koreyg8552 yes but it still is affected, just not AS affected

[@joepiedepoepie1234]

@@sharkmanyt4431 Magda was also often losing games due to other people winning with dockside enabled greatly by the Magda player.

[@DToxXx]

They pushed commander masters and LCI hard for those cards. To ban them shortly after just makes the decision to print out cards easier.

[@GabrielBarbosa-gs6vk]

Here in Brazil cEDH already runs on allowing decks to be fully printed, lots of fellas still had fully purchased decks with pimped cards, people bled with this. Nadu was an obvious ban. Dockside was on the table for years... The positive mana and their explanation are the long term concernment. They've said in the past that lotus and positive mana weren't considered for banning, I think Sheldon was the one who said that. This opens the door for banning all the others including sol ring in the future + low cost tutors....

[@SCP2264-5]

Honestly I think its cause they've realized WOTC will never reprint them in a way that allows for a majority of players to have them so they figured why not just get rid of the problem.

[@patrickwebb356]

Part of why I picked up magic again about 4 months ago was because of the relative stability of the commander ban list, I’d played magic for 14 years but left to play yugioh and found the “new ban list, light your most expensive cards on fire” ban list system of theirs too brutal. Came back, resumed commander play, cashed out a bunch of 40k I had around to pick up the big staples for my rakdos cedh deck: mana crypt, jeweled lotus, foil dockside. Literally just messaged my yugioh friends like “just got a yugioh ban list in magic guys, lit 550 dollars of cards I just got on fire.” The quarterly updates announcement paired with this butcher’s banlist legit makes me not want to buy cards, quarterly banlists were what drove me out of yugioh. Too stressful if you like playing with power.

[@joebias6706]

Korvold was the reason I got into cEDH. Over the years, I've tried other decks like Winota and Rogsi, but I never enjoyed them like I did with Korvold. RIP Korvold, it was fun while it lasted, cEDH is dead to me.

[@TwoHanderVGC]

Just got into cEDH 2 months ago, blinged out Korvold. What do we do now?

[@mgarratt101]

I think it's time we need a separate rules committee for CEDH, any volunteers?

[@Uberzooka]

Yeah, cedh really should be it's own format

[@nateridgewaymusic]

1,000%!!!!!!

[@olleicua]

Honestly I felt that way before this announcement but apparently lots of people didn't....

[@AlphaCitizen]

I nominate comedianmtg and Matthew from here to be the first 2 members of a new cedh committee

[@shivandragon1651]

Yeah

[@erik556]

Can we get a cedh rules committee now 😅

[@LemorasCards]

@@erik556 just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in...

[@ChevyRedneckGFX]

​@@LemorasCards if the CRC would've waited for an announcement a few weeks later I bet the drama wouldn't have been like it was

[@erik556]

@@LemorasCards😂😂

[@sk0omaalters96]

Multiple friends have called me today pissed off and are selling out of Magic entirely now

[@LemorasCards]

😔

[@Yukamii]

😂 your freinds need to have a rule 0 convo and keep the good cards in. Its looking like a cedh and casual separate ban list coming soon

[@BDbiogamer]

Good riddance 👋

[@Skyfysh]

I agree with them. I’m out too, financially at least. I’ll be proxying everything if I feel like continuing to play.

[@tcgmetaslayer4202]

Why? Theres no law saying players have to abide ny the rules committee.im going to hold a small cedh event at my lgs monthly and we’ll play by the community banlist. We play edh without rules committee and we have more fun!

[@bautism8140]

Don’t worry guys!!! We still have mox tantalite and sol talisman!!!!

[@mrcury7260]

xerox mox

[@fredjohnson6693]

@@bautism8140 That comment may be the only good thing to come out of today. Has to spit out my beer when I read it👍

[@andrueurbane7361]

@@fredjohnson6693 I would argue that having a tasty cold beer is another good thing...

[@tylercraig5633]

I’m incredibly sad and angry. So much money down the drain and my two main decks are now dead. Might sell out of cEDH entirely

[@erik556]

I bought a jeweled lotus 2 days ago. feels good man.

[@LemorasCards]

@tylercraig5633 it's really tough to be in that spot. I hope the format offers something you enjoy as things shake out going forward.

[@Lorry_Draws]

Fuck it. My playgroup and I are completely ignoring the new bans. We are also making our own format entirely. We only play with each other so who cares

[@tylercraig5633]

@@Lorry_Draws that’s probably what my local group will do for now too but who knows

[@dimitriid]

That's kind of the key for me as well: I will still be playing for sure but I doubt I would ever spend more than a single dollar on a card: from now on it's either proxy *everything* without restrictions or I'm not interested in that table/pod/tournament.

[@porygonL]

Pulled a jeweled lotus and now I feel like a 🤡

[@adoo765]

At least now you have a gorgeous bookmarker

[@maxmustermann1111]

dont worry about it. Ripping boosters will always troll you. Yesterday i bought a single mh2 collector because i love that set. I pulled a fkin full art foil grief :D I have cracked a lot of mh2 and never pulled a grief. Now that its banned i get it full art foil and its like 16 bucks instead of what? 100? :D gotta see the humor in that^^ I cracked a commander legends draft display to draft with friends. Found 3 hullbreachers :D the only fkin banned card :D

[@reikominamoto23]

I bought one alongside mana crypt for cedh :)

[@CthulhuOGreatOne]

Pulled a textured foil from my festival pack and haven't stopped crying yet. Best pull I've ever had.

[@gbasso666]

As a Magda player, idk if the Dockside ban is THAT big of a deal, because honestly? Magda is a very artifact heavy deck that used to feed Dockside a lot. The worst feeling is having 3/4 treasure in play and having to sac them against an opposing Dockside trigger. I actually think the deck is still going to be strong, there are other massive treasure generators that Magda can play like Ancient Copper Dragon and Cavern Hoard Dragon, and being able to hold them forever without every risking an enemy dockside win? That's actually kinda neat.

[@alexanderpayne4652]

Agreed! I think even if the deck gets powered down a bit, Dockside isn't at all central to Magda's strategy. I'm sad about not being able to tutor out a null rod in response to a dockside trigger in order to make my own dockside better but I like the fact that the core plan of the deck doesn't change.

[@atliir]

Yeah, Lemora's cards is just being salty. This is great for Magda, 3 opponents searching for dockside every game was not easy at all to deal with. I am sure this will increase magda win % in competitive play.

[@christianroberts1121]

I think this is the Dagger that sends niv mizzet to the shadow realm

[@LemorasCards]

One of my favorite decks I've played and completely unplayable now.

[@topicalkek]

try a storm list if u haven't already!! i've had loads of success without these cards

[@dimitriid]

Niv-Mizzet was also the deck that got me to pay attention to cedh as well. I will miss that deck, however I've been using a Stella Lee deck on and off since that one shares a lot of the same 'Izzet good stuff' cards and just executes different win conditions. Mana Crypt does hurts Stella but there's other 0-1 CMC stuff you can throw in. It's not ideal but it's also reasonably entertaining for us Niv refugees.

[@fithelement7730]

Just recently got into cEDH playing Niv. 😢 So sad to see this after putting the time and now have no deck to play

[@stefanocavallo449]

@@topicalkeklist pls

[@Carriantor]

These bans will ultimately lead to other questions why other mana postive rocks are not banned, especially the RL ones. In the end this may be the final blow to fractured off a separate cEDH RC from casual commander.

[@9d7fish]

I lost niv mizzet today which was what originally got me into this channel and cedh. On top of that I was running my own brew of thrasios/jeska which is now done without dockside.

[@t3smith]

I feel this. Been playing Niv for years. Very sad. Not happy with the bans.

[@BrotherMax6]

Yea… he’s down to like high power casual at best now. Sucks. I’m probably going to rebuild him with some type of spellslinger storm theme. I refuse to let go of my dragon boi.

[@t3smith]

​@@BrotherMax6I am probably looking at yuriko shorikai or talion myself

[@BrotherMax6]

@@t3smith yurikos a blast

[@atliir]

Take a look at Kenrith my friend ;) reanimate niv and win. Kenrith will need to find new ways to win after the dockside ban. Start brewing

[@sayntfuu]

I want my, I want my, I want my $95 back from this dockside i bought 2 months ago that never once came up in play.

[@JacksonX94]

One of the things I love about this format is that even some fringe decks seemed viable only because of certain cards to play around. I build a Gev deck that uses a snoop pile and part of the more goblin package in my deck that I was brewing involved dockside. With cards like goblin matron, goblin recruiter, c. nightmare loops. All down the drain because I built the deck and brewed it until it finally won my cedh tournaments arounds my lgs. But no more and I think thats the sad thing, dockside made certain lower tier decks even somewhat viable that made it fun for me.

[@gr0gdorsg]

As an etali player I’m done I loved this deck so much I spent years and money trying to bling it out

[@Lorry_Draws]

Yeah rip etali. You have been completely fucked. Gaeas cradle next 😅

[@ESP4thaWin]

​@@Lorry_Draws First comment I've seen saying Gaeas next, I have been thinking the same!!

[@brian_simmons_]

*Nostalgic Wolverine Meme looking at picture of cEDH RC*

[@blindrocket]

I think that cEDH definitely needs its own ban list now.

[@Ragmesesis]

But if you do this do this with the global community of cedh gather people from all around the Globe

[@darkienescariot9361]

@@blindrocket the format has a banlist, including cards I disagree with. What makes you special?

[@blindrocket]

@@darkienescariot9361 Lots. 😉

[@MisterWebb]

@@Ragmesesis🇯🇵🇭🇰🇰🇷

[@maxmustermann1111]

Why? Lets put Nadu aside for being nadu. What really happened? The best permanent mana positive Rock got banned. Mana positive Rocks are the best thing you can include in your (c)EDH decks. And the single most best of them has been banned. Kinda reasonable under competitive view, right? The best ritual mana got banned. Literally a Black Lotus for the card(s) you are guaranteed to have access to and have "built your deck around". Its miles better than other mana rituals. It got banned. Kinda reasonable under competitive view, right? They banned the single best creature in the format, that can easily be tutored by multiple colors and gives the biggest mana boost in the game. And on top of that is one of the most common infinite mana wins and even brought a ton of other cards (copy cats) into the decks because it is so fkin powerful. It got banned. Kinda reasonably under competitive view, right? The ban list is not perfect. Sure. This iteration of bans possibly also have hit other cards or especially should have nerfed the currently very dominant blue color. Sure. But are the bans that did happened unreasonable? No. Not slight little bit. Im also sad that i lost a ton of money. But if you look at those cards, those are some of the most Powerful cards in the format. In my mind crypt is the single best card in the format because a crypt start is SO MUCH BETTER than any other single mana acceleration card. Imagine this: Goldfish your deck. But only draw 6 cards and then think about what would be the best 7th card from your deck if you could wish for it. probably at least 80% of the time its gonna be crypt or lotus unless you have them in hand already. They are just generically that good.

[@SodaPopToyShop]

I'm a simple man. I see there's an RC ban update, I pull up KZbin and search up Lemora's.

[@TheFROST513]

Dumb ban shits wack makes me wanna step away from the game for awhile.

[@nathanlarsen7847]

This is so devastating to those who just started to get into the format and invested. But like always, another great take by Lemora's cards

[@NiCkNaCkZsHuFfLeJuMp]

I JUST got into cedh and build two decks with red in them. RIP

[@LemorasCards]

@@nathanlarsen7847 those are some of the responses I've seen that hurt the most. Especially seeing people who bought into the format after seeing my videos and now hearing how much money they lost.

[@nathanlarsen7847]

@@NiCkNaCkZsHuFfLeJuMp Nadu was my deck 🥲 my first cEDH that got me into a top cut, was my favorite deck

[@tcgremedy]

@@NiCkNaCkZsHuFfLeJuMp same and I had 3 of them in my cart for my commander deck that I was going to purchase some time this week lol

[@NiCkNaCkZsHuFfLeJuMp]

@@nathanlarsen7847 RIP dude. Sorry for that loss

[@dimitriid]

I think you know what now: Pick the CEDH RC concept back up, no bans just unbans for now. EDIT: Not necessarily you specifically just the proverbial 'you all' in the cedh community.

[@BlasphemousActs]

Surely that just means the game stagnates in a different way, I think we need more major bans and unbans every quarter to keep the meta fresh.

[@LemorasCards]

@@dimitriid definitely seems to be more interest in it now, I don't know where I stand or that I'd want to lead that charge at this point but I'll be interested how people react.

[@davidreeves4165]

​@LemorasCards I wouldnt want you on the committee. All youve ever done is cry "dockside bad" without consideration for the entire archetypes that it enabled. Rather have more insightful content creators on staff

[@d.g4466]

@@davidreeves4165man’s just here to hate watch

[@dimitriid]

@@BlasphemousActs "Stagnates in a different way" seems like an oxymoron to me but ok.

[@At9poison]

It's a good day to be a proxy friendly cEDH player. My proxies have lost zero value and my fun will likely increase. RIP Mana Crypt.

[@Rabid_Wombat]

Well played Sir 👏

[@dealinoutdevon5498]

They’re bad bans, rog si is now by far the most powerful deck in the format

[@ponyboy256]

I literally bought my first dockside last night

[@MisterWebb]

Damn. That’s gotta hurt, bro. You can earn it back, though.

[@needlersneedler9186]

Fuck the Rules committee, i used to be against the Cedh "rules committee" idea but if i knew that they were planning this then I would have been on board day 1

[@darkinsanity98473]

Problem is, those on the potential CEDH RC wanted radical bans too, instead of letting things be as they should and evolve naturally.

[@morganbrewer4029]

@@darkinsanity98473not true. There was talk of maybe banning Rhystic study but the others were unbans

[@darkinsanity98473]

@@morganbrewer4029 Yeah, Rhystic is unacceptable as well, just like today's bans. That's what I meant. And if they wanted to hit that, they would probably hit others down the road. Same problem as with the RC today.

[@dimitriid]

@@darkinsanity98473 That's not so much a "problem" but more of a learning curve: if they or someone else tries a cedh RC again they know to basically just start with unbans and probably start smaller then take it from there. BTW it's also been a learning process for at least some players opposed to 'splitting the format' as in, I can see why they were reluctant of the negatives of splitting the format, but I most of us now agree that being directly targeted by the current RC is much, much worst for the format: doing nothing is no longer an option.

[@lomalindasmogcheck1]

A separate cedh committee would be better. It would be nimble and very receptive & consistent to playerbase. Unlike current edh RC

[@DarknessChampion]

After thinking about it, I just don't know who these bans were for. Casual players will rule 0 out any stuff they don't like in their local groups. Salty casuals will just choose not to play against stuff they dislike. Competitive players play the format because they want access to all the most powerful, broken stuff and know exactly what they are signing up for. Yet, competitive players like our favorite tourney goers are literally bound by these rules. So who benefits from the changes? No one...?

[@francishwlee]

I'm not so sure. I have played in multiple casual playgroups in addition to LGSs commander nights and I've literally only experienced a handful of games where the particular group's rule 0 was actually respected, and even then, it was only b/c half the pod was totally new. In my experience, casual groups just about always degenerate into toxic arms races, which is why I got into cedh in the first place. Things are so much better when people are clear on what the strongest strategies actually are and how to actually build and play them. Low power casual games can stay low power casual, and when the odd pubstomper(s) comes along, they usually get smashed or at least the pod can keep up. IMHO, these latest bans do nothing to fix this bad dynamic I keep seeing in casual playgroups, while seriously damaging the reputation of a parallel and imo, healthier community.

[@LiteDrift]

I dunno but I'm fine with it. If they added Sol Ring and Mana Vault, I wouldn't lose sleep. Yeah, that means green is still the "fastest" ramp color (regarding dorks and lands) but red and white still have land destruction, and EDH players at every power should be more open to it, in my opinion.

[@Asianmike8402]

@@LiteDriftoh for sure. I still have access to a ton of fast mana so this sucks but I’m not devastated by it. One of my cEDH decks is sad but if they ever decided to ban all fast mana, yeah I’m a red player. Throwing in a ton of mass land destruction like effects 😂😂😂

[@francishwlee]

@@Asianmike8402 just imagine everyone going amok with LD 😂

[@boredindividual]

The fact I sold my blue collection to fully complete a CEDH dihada deck 1 month ago and now this happens... great

[@Suspinded]

I can tell people that don't play against Nadu on the regular, because they don't think Nadu combing off is a boring slog of an experience.

[@daodude5515]

Agreed. Nadu was the only good ban imo.

[@dimitriid]

I was a regular Nadu player but I didn't get significant complains. Maybe I was fortunate enough of always playing with reasonable players but I usually just explained 'I already have enough scute swarm copies/free non-creature spells for Kitten to draw the entire deck and use my wincons if you have no interaction now' and most people either proceeding to try and kill the bird or concede. I know that *technically* that was a miss-play sure, but most people also didn't really expect others to manually process the entire Breach + LSD + Brainfreeze chain or even manually draw all deck to confirm I indeed correctly resolved my demonic consultation and such just stating the combo was good enough. Nadu could be built good enough to be considered deterministic. The issue was just casual tables getting salty about not running enough interaction and having overall very poorly constructed decks that couldn't remove an artifact or a creature consistently.

[@onyxgrnr666]

Many decks do that. Its not a reason to ban a card

[@TheTalladega238]

Let's look at rule counsel, I want to know how many of them sold there copies of these cards before ban

[@SOJACjac]

Why... is manacrypt ban... Cedh needs it's own list.

[@TripsAhoy]

Craziness. It's the rules committee that's needs to be banned. 😢😢😢

[@DBDpurekiller]

I think the dockside ban was a long time coming. The card was so powerful it warped the entire meta, a card so powerful kinnan players ran clone cards because they knew that someone at the table was going to run the card. I honestly feel bad for red because it was propped up on one singular card basically, granted that card is in conversation to be one of the best cards ever printed but one card still. I will agree that dockside was a little more fun than Thoracle and that should of also gotten the axe but it did need to go it was not healthy for the format.

[@elijahredmond133]

Sucks to see ob nixilis take a big hit, but tbh i think magda will be ok, crypt and jeweled lotus were definitely significant, but in magda resolving dockside was definitely a "oh look magda is gonna win" situation but also i think magda can work itself just fine without it, none of its big combos took a hit, she might just have a work a bit harder, but we'll see what the future holds

[@flukenukeem]

I agree that everyone saying Magda is cooked is overreacting a bit. She already had a bad summer and I don’t think it’s a top tier deck anyway. Losing crypt and Jlot are pretty minimal too. I am still going to run her. My Korvold deck is looking a lot worse though…

[@erik556]

@@flukenukeemkorvold is toast for sure

[@CrunchesFPS]

My poor baby ob nix. he got me in cedh now he will take me out of cedh id rather play him high power casual then not play him at all.

[@andrewkelley6039]

And thank you for the quick video! still about to watch it.

[@awoken5803]

For me this is the start of proxying everything that is considered a strong card because why would i spend money on something thats been around for years just to have it get banned

[@alucardlied]

i got my Mana Crypt las week :'), couldnt even use it once in a tournament LMAO

[@flipsam02]

I found this video strangely comforting. Excited to see how the format shakes up

[@decentparks3597]

I am very opposed to the jeweled lotus ban

[@ph8159]

I CHANGED MY MIND. PLEASE START NORMALIZING THE TOP DECK BAN LIST CAUSE THESE RULES COMMITY MEMEBERS ARE SO OUT OF TOUCH

[@jtyree0226]

😂

[@Kizzet373]

​@@jtyree0226 lmao, can't believe people assumed they weren't out of touch.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

Arguably the opposite. This ban is approved by 90% of casual players - they don't care about cedh players, and have always been open about that.

[@InsanityStreak95]

Irregardless about what happened with the CEDH RC... We need an independant RC now more than ever... An independant body that can truely represent the needs of the CEDH community. These bans just go to show how out of touch WOTC is in regards to CEDH and how much they really don't care. These bans are just for normal commander... With CEDH being an unfortunate bystander caught up in the crossfire. Therefore, we need a seperate format and a seperate RC.

[@josefranciscodasilvaeolive674]

Irregardless isn't a word. Regardless is a word.

[@d.g4466]

Also wizards isn’t the RC they a semi independent body

[@InsanityStreak95]

@@josefranciscodasilvaeolive674 Feel free to check a dictionary lol.

[@InsanityStreak95]

@@d.g4466 I think you've misunderstood my comment.

[@flukenukeem]

@@josefranciscodasilvaeolive674irregardlessly*

[@Chronovaya]

I think I’m done commander was the format that got me into magic and collecting. But this threat of high cost cards I worked toward buying becoming worthless instantly is too much.

[@tytippett6173]

Hey Lemora, Sisay pilot from the blue staples series event earlier this year. After performing so well at my second big event, I finally felt like I had found an indentity within the format . . . Now my favorite deck is dead as I know it and I'm out several hundred dollars. When I was in high school the initial draw to this format was its power level and I find it tragic that the play patterns I fell in love with over the years vanished in the blink of an eye.

[@LemorasCards]

I hate to hear that. I do think there's still hope for that deck, I hope you're able to find something you enjoy playing.

[@commanderpower99]

Isn't red strictly worse after this banning? We only have breach now.

[@LemorasCards]

Yeah it's pretty bad for red right now

[@andreaslion5877]

arguably there is wheel, ragavan, deflecting swat, pyroblast/REB, but it still sucks for red

[@mentosmuncher]

This is all boros had going for it and any red/green/x decks running dorks or hate bears were getting shit on by an easily slotable orcish bowmasters. Now they can slowly and easily be hated out by stray shots without a chance to reverse and catch up without dockside

[@tragicweather]

Woke up to a new banlist! First things first, does Lemora have a video yet? Answer: yes cause excellence!

[@koreyg8552]

It’s a fucked up ban that affects cedh not casual. As a cedh esper and midrange player, this actually powers up my decks, but I feel bad for everyone else

[@darkinsanity98473]

And yet, casual is why they made the changes because they said too much fast start enablers were trickling into casual lol. What a joke, casual in particular was self regulating.

[@atliir]

@@darkinsanity98473 This is made for cedh, not casual. I am all for it.. Every game... people would search for Dockside... Every game... if they didn't win, the next person would copy him and win.

[@starvingboyinafrica9463]

They will unban when the commander master set and then Reban a year after the sets release

[@LelandMurphy-fo2wi]

The commander rc literally just turned millions of dollars of card equity into almost next too nothing...

[@Carriantor]

Here’s a thought pay $5 a piece for the rocks and then throw tournaments that allow it and Jeweled lotus / mana crypt for prizing.😂

[@andrewroy888]

Maddening

[@Revival_JamZ]

Having had some success with Tymna Thrasios with Nadu as the secret commander, I think the "banned as commander list" should be re-considered, in particular with meh creatures like Golos, Rofellos, Leovold, Emrakul and Erayo on it too. I was expecting though a bowmasters ban considering how warping and unfun in general is to play against it.

[@tenknq]

The big thing I don't understand is they edged us so hard to chase these cards in the more recent sets, mana crypt in caverns, jeweled lotus in commander masters, and dockside in double masters, only to ban them a handful of months later. Hell, they made a secret lair korvold and had a chinese new year version come out. I really cant wrap my head around this.

[@nateridgewaymusic]

Agreed! Bait and switch

[@TheM8]

The Edh Rules Committee is not part of WotC

[@darkienescariot9361]

@@tenknq imagine playing magic using non-playtest cards.

[@TPaether]

The Commander Rules Comitee is notmpart of WoTC, they aren't even in communication at all. You can't really blame Wotc or the rules comitee for the releases or the timing of the bans, as they can't really collude on this.

[@adraxer12]

@@darkienescariot9361 I was building my Yurki since 2 years. Self-printed cards tested against my horde decks and few games with other players. I "finished" deck last week not printing only null rod and underground sea since they are really too expensive. Now they flushed my 100$ down the drain and experience down the toilet. I got one game with deck I made

[@jeremiahchamberlain4179]

Cedh needs its own ban list period there is no other option now.

[@onlyhuman3281]

Im extremely angry and sad and feel ripped of in a huge way! My Lgs like all shops only offer 20% of the value of a card when you trade it in for store credit!! Well I lost over $600 in trade cards to get my single Mana Crypt from the store. Im glad I did not spend $500 + dollars to get a collector Box to Pull a Jeweled Lotus!! and now its Banned????? WTAF!!! Cedh vs Edh are two differing play formats!!!!!! Mr Bathwater can get F- - kd Im selling my entire 10k collection as whats next??? and why did they not Ban Mox? why no Bann LED???? Just watch all Cedh decks adjust to still running ZERO cost rocks??? why not ban Zero cost cards by this thinking??? FML F this Game they can just do this to any card why buy any cards at all they cant DESIGN THERE OWN DAM CARDS!!!!!! yet they can charge us TOP END CASH to purchase them in the beginning? I think Im done with the Hole Game the entire MTG thing.

[@Capt_McNugget]

You're not the only one. This was an epic mistake

[@ronjohnson2760]

You can absolutely blame WOTC for that not the RC. The RC is not in charge of card pull rates or sealed product prices. WoTC is literally the reason these cards cost so much and why CEDH as a format even after these bans is still almost totally unapproachable for anyone but the ultra wealthy or super veteran players who were fortunate enough to be actively playing the game when these cards were actually affordable.

[@BedroomPianist]

Banning Dockside because of food tokens and shit in casual is crazy

[@Dinnky13]

I played at the end of the flash era. It was a breath of fresh air from many people it felt. The ban this time has felt like a total gut punch. I primarily play esper and naya. The esper in me will be fine. But man am I going to miss the dopium of dropping a dockside. It's not format ruining for me, we survived flash, we'll survive this. We just need to stay calm, turn our brewing brains on again and see hoe the meta shakes out. Appreciate all your thoughts here! 🎉

[@jxhook]

I'm not for these bans. Just me, or is it a middle finger to the CEDH community? I find Thoracle and Rhystic more irritating that crypt or lotus.

[@Rabid_Wombat]

The RC have hated on the cEDH community for a long time

[@stevenreidy116]

Thank you, Matthew. This was helpful.

[@pierrebuthaud7640]

The axe is hard, but that makes me hyped for the format in the long term. I just can't wait to see your first top 16 post ban video.

[@Dafins100]

I wish Orcish Bowmasters was more annoying in casual so it would get banned. I think it needs a ban in cedh but that’s not how this works 🤷‍♂️

[@keithhowerton6185]

I was waiting for your take on this, guess we need to rule zero before a cedh game

[@sorry987654321]

Dockside is as much cEDH as Sol Ring is. I'm kinda pissed about this whole thing...

[@darkinsanity98473]

So is Mana Crypt. What an insane ban, all three not counting Nadu are ridiculous and should not have been banned.

[@ronjohnson2760]

The difference is Sol ring is printed in literally every commander product and is actually an affordable card.

[@CrossoverPsycho]

@@ronjohnson2760 so we just print dockside into some precons and the problem is solved :)

[@SilentGe42]

Convinced the playgroup to jump on to the cedh train. One with godo and one with etali, they are probably "lost players" to the format now. Sad story that is all over the places atm i guess

[@danielvahtaric5091]

We NEED you guys back. It was a mistake to hate out the cEDH RC. Especially if blue farm is unbeatable now

[@dealinoutdevon5498]

They said we would ban sol ring but we’ve stuck it in every commander pre con so we can’t ban it as we’d then be selling products with a banned card in it

[@thechikage1091]

Who the hell is playing mana crypt in games that normally last 12+ turns.

[@THEDARKHORSES2001]

Cedh needs its own ban list. I said this two months ago, and after the dumpster fire about having our own banned list, THE RC DOES THIS??!?!?!. They are literally BEGGING US to play by different rules. The amount of decks that don’t work as effectively is crazy, I always said they were never considerate of us, and now they are not just leaving us be, but shoving their feet down our throat

[@jxhook]

The timing is kinda suspicious, being CEDH was contemplating it's own banlist.

[@atliir]

New decks will form.

[@turbo_vieja]

the sevinne precon is now illegal xd... laughable

[@AtlasAdvice254]

Red just got shot, looks like blood moon meta now

[@FatstaxMTG]

In a format that “regulates itself” power shouldn’t be looked at as bad.

[@hellproof2379]

Losing crypt was more painful than I thought as a rog si deck. No turn 1 wheels / rhystic. Post naus/necro is slightly harder. Been playing without and mulls are hard

[@TTXFLR6]

These bans also killed a bunch of fringe commander centric decks (especially low color). It's not only the bans, it's also the probable meta shift towards midrange value that's impossible to deal with for these decks.

[@CthulhuOGreatOne]

This last month has dunked on the momentum that cedh has had this year imo.

[@Smojiii]

why cant we just split the format 3 ways? let wizards have one, another can be the cedh we had and the 3rd can open the floodgates and be a fully unbanned legacy style cedh format

[@noahpetrasko6777]

Considering that cedh players were so upset about how the commander rc wasn't making changes, I'm sure they're ecstatic that the RC finally did make changes

[@SpaceAznZen]

As a Niv-Mizzet player, my deck is basically dead in the water and all that I’m left to do is grasp at straws to try and save my boy.

[@atliir]

I feel you, Consider going to Kenrith and reanimate Niv.

[@Kozi15]

As a High Powered EDH enjoyer who loves to play between Casual and cEDH me and my friends were devastated by the Crypt and JLo getting banned out of nowhere. Then we found out that RC and WotC were planning to ban Crypt a year ago and still pushes it into LCI, we feel we got milked by WoTc. Leaves a sour taste in mouth, now my friends are trying to sell out their collection and move on from magic.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

"Then we found out that RC and WotC were planning to ban Crypt a year ago and still pushes it into LCI," Source?

[@olleicua]

I think we are about to see a bunch of new strategies emerge. All the decks you listed play powerful cards that were pretty much exclusively being used to find, combo with, and take advantage of dockside. There's a lot of creative potential opening here. There will be new good decks.

[@abrahamrios1196]

Personally feels like a poor list not affecting the offset of other decks. Nadu- fair, boring to watch and can fail- seen it happen Dock- red hurting and sadly a big loss for all decks that needed it to keep up Crypt- lmao I don’t see this as a problem at all in higher power + especially with dockside as a counterbalance Jeweled lotus- what the …. I get it but literally format specific card and great way to bring bigger commanders into format- agree that it affects low commanders but still feels like a miss

[@regisphilbin529]

Ironically the bans killed my high power LOTR meme Kenrith list and none of my cedh decks.

[@mtgcatfish5993]

On a family vacation, explained this ban announcment to my Dad as if they took the three point shot out of basketball.

[@shikaku_]

Im a rog thras and najeela player. You could replace the dockside curio combo with isochron scepter and dramatic reversal. Thats what thrasios decks were doing before dockside was printed. Ill either switch to tymna kraum or make a more midrangey rog thrass

[@Indignation92]

I think about going for stax najeela since turbo is nerfed

[@shikaku_]

@Indignation92 stax najeela tends to shoot you in the foot more often than not. I'd go for a midrange adnaus build. Not to say stax pieces are bad. I'm on grand abolisher, dranith, orcish, ranger captain etc. A couple of hate bears to slow down your opponents. You still have thoracle and breach lines. It's just not as fast without the ability of turn 1 najeela

[@Indignation92]

@@shikaku_ depending on how the meta shifts it could both viable, bjt since najeela isnt that strong anymore maybe stax is they way, at least in my pod, just beat em down. Midrange could also work Well but i think for mid there are just better options than najeela

[@shikaku_]

@Indignation92 I've had the most success with the midrange varient but tell me how stax goes and send me your list I'll try it for myself

[@Indignation92]

@@shikaku_ will try but it will take some time, pretty sure wont be able to play it that much next weeks

[@Thryvetogether]

How much does the meta change after today? Is that good or bad after the dust settles?

[@LemorasCards]

@Thryvetogether more than anything has ever changed it I think. Whether it's good or bad is very hard to say.

[@chrissmith1745]

It's a big change unfortunately I think the top 3 will be the same minus siss and add kinnon and puts an even bigger gap between 3 and the rest cedh becoming more homogeneous then ever from here out I am well was a korvold player and now I doubt I'll be playing mtg at all

[@TheRovingPunster]

This is about as much of a clean slate ban as mystical tutor ban in legacy or looting in modern.

[@jaredmick6319]

Damn. I was just getting back into mtg after a decade ago when I had 3 modern decks banned out back-to-back. Friend got me into cEDH scene and just picked up a bunch of staples. $400 spent is now worth $100 after a few weeks and didn’t even have a chance to play. Is it even worth getting back into?

[@Capt_McNugget]

proxy for me from now on

[@jaredmick6319]

@@Capt_McNugget the shop near me does its cEDH events with a 10 proxy limit. But yeah, if I stay, then same. Just sucks cuz I felt like I was really getting excited following the meta, building up. But now just anxious about the other $4k spent

[@supremecourt4131]

The pricedrop is simply not ok.. i payed 220€ for Crypt and Lotus and now they are worth dogsh!t… I left Yugioh back in the day because of the banlists and how they affected the pricepolicy..

[@LemorasCards]

@supremecourt4131 same, just got my Mana Crypt recently after having sold out and now it's worthless.

[@colinlibra7968]

I got to play my new lotus in 1 whole game before this ban. Where it got stolen by another player and cast. So i payed 90 bucks for my friend to cast it once.

[@supremecourt4131]

@@LemorasCards feels so bad man 😪..

[@RomanRobledo-kz8mx]

We need cedh players who make rules for cedh. We have be able to adjust to these bans but what happens when they ban necropotence and ad nauseum next quarter? We need independence

[@toctheyounger]

This hurt me right in the Dargo. Ngl that deck needs to change tack entirely now. I'm pretty ok with the rocks going, that's ok to me. Dockside going is savage, and frankly I dont think it's going to make a tangible difference to casual tables. Anyone who plays it at those tables is absolutely there to shake you down. Not having it in cedh kills so, so many diverse decks. It's a massive shame. Honestly I can see cedh either splintering off or just ignoring this banlist update. Who's gonna stop them?

[@nateridgewaymusic]

We need two separate rules committees: one for casual, and one for cEDH

[@MisterWebb]

Hear! Hear!

[@rajaspradhan7684]

Niv-Mizzet player here. The deck runs exclusively through getting out Dockside or JLo. Deck is BROKEN and honestly, every time I feel like brewing or playing, my motivation is just nerfed. You hit on people leaving the game, and I really feel that way with my favorite deck even though I have others :/ Hope you or some other leaders in the cEDH community can peel off and do something separate for cEDH

[@muddlewait8844]

So genuine question here: of the current banlist, what would you unban if cEDH had its own banlist? Would lotus, moxen, time walk, time vault etc. be in the format?

[@jacksonkmartin]

Just built a korvold deck and was signed up for a tourney this weekend. I think I have to be done with cEDH for a while. Honestly, I’m fine with crypt and jeweled lotus, but dockside balanced so many fun red decks that are now worthless. Really disappointed.

[@eisberg7681]

I had luck to pull exactly two cards multiple times while hitting nothing else. Got like 4 docksides and 3 jeweled lotus. Well there goes that..

[@garrettshouler9348]

Just imagine, we could have had Rhystic banned and other cards unbanned. Instead, this is what we get.

[@MrSonictheOtter]

We gotta know Eric's reaction to this ban list. Hoping he'll still play cEDH. Korvold took a huge hit today.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

I feel like you are correct about how this alienates players, even though I agree with the bans. The point is that the format should be stable and you should be able to properly predict the actions of the RC based on previous evidence. Nadu causes lots of problems, so it makes sense, but dockside being untouched for years doesn't. And of course, there's no change to the overall philosophy, meaning we just keep wondering what it means going forward. In 3 years will they ban The One Ring and Bowmasters along with Mana Vault/Grim Monolith? I think it's just more evidence that their bans are leashed by WotC reprint equity.

[@kevinhandlon8011]

Hey I know you felt like you were in a rush and all but I wanted to say that this haircut you got looks really killer and I didn't think you looked as bad as you made yourself out to in the intro.

[@dhcmatias]

It just reinforce que need for a separate list for cEDH. Or then, to limit the "flash" style Wins, Thassa's should also be banned.

[@TheOrros]

this is dumb.. let there be a competitive list and a casual ban list.. Explosive CEDH is so fun and the threat of it happening makes the game exciting. slowing the whole format down is silly. I hope game stores refuse this and ground zero this bs

[@harvenger0death]

I built Krarkashima and got to play it a couple months, and now this.. 3 out of the 4 cards banned were in the deck. Kinda awkward. Now, Dockside was cool but not needed in the deck. Stormkiln and Tavern Scoundrel give you consistent treasure tokens. The JLo and Mana Crypt definitely hurts. We'll see how it holds up now.