Doctor REACTS To Deadly Andrea Yates Case (Post Partum Psychosis Ends in Tragedy) | Part 2

[@stroodledoodles]

Honestly the thing that boils my blood the most about this case is that the husband didn't even TRY to support her through all of this, didn't attempt to make sure she was taking her meds or anything. Everything was so preventable if she just had better people around her, so sad.

[@Nikkibov81]

I think he & her were also brainwashed with the religious people they were following. Seems as though it was very cult-like. Anyone can fall prey to a cult and that line of thinking is extremely difficult to pucture.

[@jenniferredmond3592]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who is just livid at that man.

[@stroodledoodles]

@@jenniferredmond3592 I'll forever be infuriated at the fact that he was never charged with negligence, he KNEW he shouldn't have left her alone with the kids but he did anyway. The justice system is a joke.

[@jenniferredmond3592]

@@stroodledoodles it frustrates me so much that he left her alone, under the guise that her mom would be there soon. And it's one of those moments that forever altered the lives of every single person in their orbit, and he just seems to shrug it off. I can't imagine how guilty her mom (or his, can't remember which one it was right off the top of my head) felt for not being there in that moment.

[@stroodledoodles]

@@jenniferredmond3592 Exactly! Him not even seeming to care in the interviews just speaks volumes.

[@scriptorpaulina]

God, I can’t even imagine. My priests keep sending me BACK to therapy any time I show even the slightest hint of being sick, even the one who did an exorcism once. They make it their business to tell me to follow my doctors’ recommendations and take my meds. I just… I can’t imagine what kind of suffering she was going through.

[@jsomebody2289]

As someone with childhood onset schizophrenia / schizoaffective disorder depressive type, it's so weird hearing someone be able to describe hallucinations in such a detailed way who hasnt actually experienced them. Thank you for bringing awareness to these issues.

[@TobiasAdin]

I used to demonize Yates for her horrible actions, but now I'm just upset at how preventable it was. If her husband wasn't so dismissive, and if Andrea had gotten the care that she needed, this tragedy could have been prevented.

[@HeyLetsTalkAboutIt]

This is why mental health needs to be taken very seriously.

[@MearnieToon]

Who doesn’t take it serious?

[@maraque16]

@@MearnieToon Andrea's husband for starters

[@MearnieToon]

@@maraque16 I don’t know what to say to people who state the obvious. 🤐

[@maraque16]

@@MearnieToon If it was obvious, then what was the point of your comment?

[@MearnieToon]

@@maraque16 once again it’s obvious. Christ!

[@IWantToRideMyBike]

I had postpartum anxiety with depression.. I don’t think it’s talked about enough either. It ended up ramping up my OCD and 5 years out, it still hasn’t gone away and I’ve needed to remain medicated.

[@THErealOGse]

As someone who has used US, UK, Canadian, and Korean Healthcare for extended periods the US comes dead last as far as user friendliness and cost. I get dragged by some of my US friends for stating I'll never live there again.

[@MearnieToon]

Wow American health care is expensive? That’s crazy never heard that before. 🤯 Thanks for letting that secret out

[@THErealOGse]

@MearnieToon hugely expensive. You pay every time you get paid at work, you pay every time you use the care or your doctor orders something, you sometimes have to pay a certain amount before they'll even START covering your care, plus medications cost a lot, physical therapy/physio, medical equipment, etc. It is wild. Like I had really good insurance from what I'm understanding and I still owed a lot and my contribution was still high cost compared to others contributions to their Healthcare

[@ShyAnn291]

@@THErealOGse I had to get airlifted in 2017 and that was over $20,000 I don’t remember how much insurance paid but that’s crazy, I get that helicopters are expensive but still.

[@jenniferredmond3592]

As someone who had a grandmother who experienced post-partum psychosis and had a break so badly that she was hospitalized (in the 1950's, which was it's own special kind of hell and broke her in ways that were unmendable), this case always broke my heart. For the kids and for her, I can't even fathom what happened in that home, but i also can't fathom someone feeling so broken and feeling so lost that this was a way to make thing things better, to save her children.

[@nlaw25]

I’m itching for part 3. I’ve heard this story before but never with as much detail and breakdown, can’t wait for the finale!

[@eileen_a_b]

I'm enjoying that I'm getting to see both of your professionals' perspective on this case. It's very sad what happened all around. I agree completely about rhe American health system.

[@jenniferellis2275]

This happened at about the same time my son was born. I had post partum depression, and was very undersupported at the time. I remember having disturbing intrusive thoughts and being terrified I would do something horrible.

[@lynnhettrick7588]

I had my firstborn in May 2001. I had intrusive thoughts too.

[@oriolesfan61]

After her next to last pregnancy, her doctor warned her husband NOT to get her pregnant again or else the lives of her children would be a grave risk. But her husband was a conservative Christian who was part of the Quiverful movement that believed a husband and wife must have as many children as possible.

[@mangantasy289]

I already said it in the first video on this. This poor women was failed by the system repeatedly. I totally feel you, watching and tearing my hair. So much pain that could have been avoided. Medical mistakes I bet (I'm not a professional. Just a patientwith severe mental health issues myself). An "insurance problem"? That is utterly outrageous. And I can't even imagine how difficult, as a mental health care (physical too I guess) professional, it must be to deal with a patient that is so deeply in the grip of a toxic cult that they, consciously or not, risk their own wellbeing. Makes me so mad at these cult-leaders, exploiting the most vulnerable. Drives me crazy that most likely (I honestly don't know much about the law system) ther would not even be any sort of legal hold against these kind of organizations. Similar for very very religious people. And I know that these kind of scenarios were taken into account in the DSM manuals. I'm sure you know the exact text, I don't, but sth. along the line "other than religious beliefs" (when it comes to delusions, illusions and the like). I guess the lines can be hard to draw here. I'm digressing, but I wonder waht could be done if someone for example was convinced that "God" was, physically, allways at his side. Like maybe even seing him. Could they be diagnosed with having hallucinations? Sorry for the long comment. Love your content.

[@lynnhettrick7588]

15:11 Thank you for mentioning that we no longer say “commit.”

[@aenwynn950]

The husband just saw her as a walking womb, it's really gross. He did not care at all about his wife's wellbeing.

[@cosplaymistake]

When I was in a partial hospitalization program one of the other people in my program had to get discharged even though she wasn't ready to leave because her insurance wouldn't cover more. This is a common thing in america when it comes to any kind of mental hospitalization. Your insurance can just be like nah and not cover anymore of your treatment.

[@crptpyr]

To be that guy, this wasn't murder. Andrea Yates killed her children, but she did not murder them. Murder requires a (legally) sound mind.

[@DoctorElliottCarthy]

You're getting ahead of part 3...

[@crptpyr]

@@DoctorElliottCarthy Okay, but that has the exact same vibes as my college science teacher telling me not to confuse the class by pointing out that things don't "create" energy because it was an idea that they could learn later It's but a one word substitution and I feel as though we should just get things like that right from the start where possible. I don't see a particularly good reason not to, especially when the alternative is just reinforcing existing misconceptions, making it harder to challenge them later.

[@flingonber]

The part about being discharged because her insurance wouldn't cover it was something I saw happen literally every day while I was in treatment for substance use disorders. It was supposed to be a 30-day program but the insurance had to be reauthorized every day, and every day people would randomly be discharged because their insurance stopped paying the $1000/day it cost. I paid out of pocket so I was one of the only people who was there for the full 30 days while I was there.

[@AuroraMeansDawn27]

Her husband should have been held accountable. He left her alone with the children and FORCED her to keep having children. She bathed in her own feces!!! Just breaks my heart, not inly for those precious babies, but for Andrea too.

[@KayosHybrid]

this was an inevitability the husband allowed to take place and now somehow isn't held responsible?

[@laurawonka-hardisty83]

The husband cared more about having children than he did about his wife.

[@malin9314]

Hi Elliot, you probably wont see this comment but I'd thought I'd give it a chance and write to you anyway. Let me preface this by saying that your videos regarding mental health have been a balm during my current depression, and even after more than 10 years in therapy you still teach me so many new things! So thank you for that! Now to my question: is there any chance you'd consider having a look at Bo Burnham's comedy special "Inside"? It's a little outside your wheelhouse but perhaps it could be fun to react to and discuss the themes Bo takes up (all of them relating to his own struggles with both anxiety disorders and depression). It's often times very funny, and often times very sad. I think you'd like it! Just food for though. xoxo

[@oriolesfan61]

Her husband should have been charged with manslaughter!

[@gacchan]

Seeing you break this down has been so fascinating. I'm so curious about catatonia, can you talk more about it sometime?

[@wheelofhands]

Scary stuff. Poor family

[@rosebroady6618]

What scares me the most is the subtle differences in attitude between the American vs British attitude to mental illness. I get the impression that American stills feels its the womens problem rather than a community's issue. If i was in thus situation id much rather be in England as there is a much more empathetic attitude

[@catsmom129]

It’s also why Americans are so deeply polarized. Some of us think loving America means wanting a society that works for *all* Americans. Others think loving America means dragging us all back to some previous century where the system worked for maybe the most privileged 20%.

[@rosebroady6618]

@@catsmom129 every country has its issues dealing with mental health, but as a society we need to be more not less aware. Unfortunately from what I see (I'm not an American) the health and political system seems to be practicing a form of Eugenics by making it far to expensive amd inaccessible for those who need the most help. Not saying all people subscribe to that thought process but it there enough at the high levels that it trickles down an causes a country wide infection

[@catsmom129]

@@rosebroady6618 yes, I completely agree

[@meadow2778]

10:20 Do psychiatrists have a good understanding of what exactly catatonia is? Not just what it looks like and how to treat it, but what exactly is causing it? I’m sorry if this is a weird question, but it’s really interesting to me how somebody with (I’m assuming) no training can just hold a stance like you described. Like, does your brain go “we’re doing this now” and you’re able to hold that position no matter what state your body is in?

[@crptpyr]

We don't actually know the exact mechanism behind catatonia. As for how someone could hold a posture so long that should be uncomfortable or difficult, you just probably wouldn't be getting those signals of pain or discomfort to tell you to move, or would be unable to respond to them. Your body can physically hold an uncomfortable position longer than it feels like, your brain just tells you at some point to stop doing that because you're going to do damage to yourself if you don't. While somewhat different physiologically, an example would be our ability to hold positions while we're asleep that would rather quickly become extremely uncomfortable if we were awake. Since we just aren't registering that discomfort or our brain isn't responding to it, we can hold that for hours at a time, and suffer the consequences later when we wake up. The mechanisms and the like would be different in catatonia, but it would be a similar sort of thing where you're able to hold a position for a very long time that you wouldn't otherwise be able to because your brain isn't communicating or responding to the stress. This is entirely speculative on my part since I couldn't find anything on this specifically, and since we don't know the mechanism of catatonia in general it can be hard to know exactly what processes are and aren't functioning as they should.

[@calliewright3128]

Love all of your content, always look forward to it ❤

[@Mrsknightful]

You are so smart and impressive. Seriously, we are the same age and you should be so proud of all you have accomplished. ❤

[@sandraisyearning]

looking forward to part 3 :)

[@Rose_Blue87]

the defense mechanisms talk made me think of something I struggle with imposer ocd. what presents as doubt weather I really have ocd or (in my case) am just a horrible person. the doubt can be intens. also question as am I ill enough for treatment or am I stealing a spot from someone that really is ill come up a lot. its hard

[@biniforreal]

big fan, I've been binging your videos this past week, do you think you could do a video about the south park episode "Put It Down"? I think it would be a great way to talk about anxiety disorders and dealing with them

[@rfrolicarts]

Hey, I see the book Butter in your background? Did you like it? I just finished it and I haven't seen anyone talking about it.

[@chrisweaving5307]

Hi Dr Carthy, great video as per usual, just out of interest, what stage of your training path are you, have you completed training in your field? Love your content 😊

[@Roneish1996]

Based on the first two parts of this series I imagine that the final answer was no she wasn’t considered legally insane in large part due to the issues you discussed so far about minimisation of her mental health issues, despite the impact of her mental illnesses and the fact she is in a cult that I think all together points towards her being legally insane, but I could be misremembering the difference between types of insanity.

[@rachelann9362]

I will always blame the husband more than i blame her. She was sick, he wasn’t. He was absolutely culpable. I don’t know if they touched on this, but he was also VERY controlling, emotionally abusive, and reproductively abusive (she didn’t want more kids.the last few were REALLY scary for her and she spent a lot of time in hospital.) Financial abuse was a hallmark. She’d get a low budget to pay for groceries and other household things. Some weeks, she couldn’t really feed herself AND her kids. She chose to fed her kids. That didn’t come out enough in the trial and in media. She had been seeing drs. They KNEW she was a risk but there was only so much they could dog. The husband failed. All he had to do was wait until her parents arrived to supervise, like maybe an hour or two, and those kids just might still be alive. Before her last pregnancy, her drs warned her AND her husband that she should NOT have any more kids. The drs were genuinely worried she was going to act on the psychosis if it happened again. You know what her husband did? Be berated her to get off the meds. He refused to acknowledge she had a psychiatric. He KNOWINGLY left that morning with the knowledge that a) she was on the edge if not in psychosis, and b) he knew there was going to be a gap before her parents could come over.he was explicitly told to NEVER LEAVE HER ALONE with the kids after her final birth. How he was t charged with anything is beyond me. He was warned many times that she was a deadly risk to the children and he chose to dismiss that and left her alone. He was beyond reckless.

[@taramcflara]

The reason America struggles so much with the Healthcare system is in part due to old age of the people running the government; the aging brain is more resistant to change, plus, the older generation has significantly lower levels of emotional intelligence, evidenced by the stubbornness. I'm not trying to be ageist here, but the fight might be against biology rather than logic 🤷‍♀️

[@tobi601]

I really hope you do an episode about my name is earl, especially about whem he went to prison ans found that boy scout who's life he ducked up and how hard it is to rehabilitate after prison and the want to go back in jail because its the life he knows

[@chriscintron3320]

the insurance thing actually pisses me off cuz what??

[@boredutopia]

edit: sh*** think i should have skip those , these parts about auditory commands, halucinations and voices, particulary at 7:13 were such a trigger about incident i was involved to, i was at ''borderline'' or at begining of psychosis i think, looking back now, was 17, my dad was constantly drunk and becoming more agressive, wich triggered my ptsd, some blocked memories started to surface i started to have those, at first they were not scary, more like hide, be silent, dissaper, dont respond, the more agresive he become it started to be both visual and auditory, i started to unlock some memories, coz at that time when it happenedi was 9, when city felt, at one point during one event i shut myself completly, i guess i was like a robot, had no memories at all about big chunk of time, not hours but almost day and half. my brother at that time was actually in a ''good place''', wich was a pure luck. my dad was becomin more and more agressive towards everyone and that run, fight, froze kicked in. so the commands started, i was in full blown psycosis by that time i think and it start with defend yourself, find a weapon, sleep with an axe and simmilar. and one day my dad came to my room with a hammer and started to smash things coz i did not want to turn off pc. iin my head the voice said take it from him, smash him.. complete darkness after that, dont remember anything, nothing , not even today, next thimg i know, my brother is holding my both hands yelling let it go, drop it, drop it, my dad was on the floor and i had hammer in my hand. and my st*** mum when police and ambulance came made some bullshit story instead just saying the truth, she divorced him after that, i was more or less fine after it, coz the level of stress of threat was lowered, gone and in few months i packed my stuff and left for iceland. that scared the cr*** out of me and 3 years later i seeked on my own professional help coz i knew i cant go like that i need to remember everything, otherwise i will do something really bad to someone one day.. well at least a this point of my life i kinda see early signs where i am, so i act immidiatly or people around me do if i am unaware.. maybe i should just delete whole fckn comment now... and next day i even had to ask my mum, brother, sister did that really happen or did i imagine it. i was so fu** up that i was not even sure anymore what is real and what is not and then the flashes started too wich made everthing worse, coz i had no idea am i really there and imagine i am adult somewhere else to block horror around me, or the horror is memory and other me is reality.. what i cant understand here in her case, is actually her husband, so far it seems he is support to her, but dude you see enviroemnt you are in is bad for her and your kids, why he never ever just packed them all and left, moved to another city, state, found a job. that part i dont get. i mean you cant be in some cult/relegion or what ever wich is having one set of beleives wich actually harm your family, your spouse, unless you really beleive in those belives, so you actually are not a support to your spouse or your family. this is main reason why i cut all tides with my mum and sister, not completly, but i ignre their calls, talk to them once a week, refuse to do half of things i did before, coz those 2 are bad for my mental health, main source of stress, so i just gave up on them and refuse to be their solution for every problem they have and cleaner for every mess they made..the enviroment and people in it are very important factor when you suffer from some mental ilness/condition. they can help you or drown you...

[@laurawonka-hardisty83]

You know she's not a psychologist, and she's just reading history. Don't pick her apart too much. I'm speak8ng about Dr. Jones the OBGYN. And she's probably referencing the drug nam3s by b4and so that her audience understands better. If I say benadryl as opposed to diphenhydramine, people understand beyter

[@darkermatter125.35]

It is often joked about here that if you can't afford treatment, the response is "ok, I'll just die then," or some variation of that. But it is very much rooted in reality, and the younger generations use humor, while a large chunk of the older generations get bitchy about "everyone wanting handouts these days." An unbelievable amount of medical debt is paid by crowdfunding as well, including from those boomers, making this next part quite ironic. Our healthcare is so fucked up. We pay twice as much as Canada on healthcare in government spending, but we don't have free healthcare. They cannot grasp how free healthcare would work, bitching about "paying for other people," even though that's literally how health insurance works. You pay in, and those who get sick get covered, though it rarely covers much. So many people die or die much younger/have a bad quality of life because no one can afford preventative care. Everyone waits until things are unbearable or terrifying to go. Often it is too late or the damage is irreversible, or they can't afford things like physical therapy. It is an absolute mess. But we can't change, because sometimes there are wait times in countries with free health care. So even though it would be cheaper to have free health care, god forbid someone might wait for an elective procedure (though that generally happens feom underfunding, from what I understand... so it can always be fixed here by subtracting a billion or so from the military budget... or the billions in weapons we are passing around to other countries).

[@user-yq7hd9wg5o]

Hi Doctor Elliott! Question (kinda about this topic) : are there any signs a person might see themselves that would indicate they were going into a psychotic episode? Or are you essentially reliant on someone else to notice that it’s happening? Thank you in advance !

[@a_lethe_ion]

Hey Eliott, say something more about the serotonin syndrome bc hearing about SNRI. I had that. It was fucking weird. Also there's something that all SS seems to share. FEVER I went to 40°C and I had not have a fever since childhood. Also had akanthasia (i think that's how its written) like full body restless legs. Also issue with blood clotting/coagulation, my blood wouldn't dry. I was extremely thirsty, which was interesting bc i didn't have thirst usually. I drank a lot so shit went bad

[@katietallman641]

Everyone failed her and her children.

[@damianrobbins4167]

Not a flirty thing, but Dr. Elliott, you do wear both facial hair and clean shaven looks well, really is rare sir :)