Doctor Reacts to THE LAST OF US // Episode 2

[@jackprior0123]

I dont think Joel was actually on an Atkins diet, more of an excuse to avoid spending time with the neighbours. The whole first episode is littered with Joel and Sarah narrowely avoiding wheat/carbs (no pancake mix for his breakfast and forgetting to pick up a cake for his birthday).

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Yeh I think you are right, very clever to look back on

[@hellfish2309]

Rob Lowe is somewhere in this apocalypse with a fortress of Atkins henchmen

[@kylereese4822]

@@DrHopeSickNotes Fun fact... the head split open ones are actual fans of the game playing the parts so the body movements stay true to the game :)

[@jcaashby3]

The only flaw I see is if the flour is contaminated then I am sure Joel, Tommy and Sarah have eaten something with flour in it the day before or before that. Yes they did not on that Friday but what about the rest of the week? It is not like the contaminated foods were delivered to stores on Friday.

[@hellfish2309]

@@kylereese4822 i thought they were [among] the original mo-cap performers 🤔

[@CloneMalone]

What's also cool is how many times in the first episode bread type items were coincidentally avoided. The fact that they ran out of pancake mix and Joel forgot the cake for example, fantastic hints from the writers.

[@kaboshireacts]

Don't forget the Raisin cookies! Nobody likes oatmeal raisin over chocolate chip xD

[@costrodrock]

The grandma was also shown eating biscuits!

[@hellfish2309]

Atkins, baby! 😉

[@carlito19934]

Everyone just saying things they heard a youtuber say 100% none of you fuckers thought of this by yourself so dont comment this shit we get it 30 youtube videos came out so you have to share opinions that arent yours

[@costrodrock]

@merc 076 yikes, can't imagine how lonely it must be to be that cynical

[@SunChaoJun]

It seems like an extreme reaction from the mycologist, but in that short exchange, she learned that: -Patient zero is unaccounted for -The initial incident happened 30 hours ago -The subject managed to bite multiple coworkers in a short period and all of them turned within hours -14 workers from the plant are missing I'd say at that point, it's beyond any containment and more about limiting the ability to spread

[@DBT1007]

This is indonesia. Look at their covid19 management. And the avg IQ of the people there. Indonesia is a perfect candidate to be the ground zero for the zombie outbreak. Tropical region(humid and warm), high population density in Jawa island, lack of infrastructures, nearby another big populated regions like Japan, China, India. And southern india also a good candidate for the zombie outbreak especially with those discriminative extremist hindu

[@tonypee3465]

What's more worried about is the fact that the infected are become feral and dangerous.

[@estebanquinones5918]

Plus as she said there's no cure for cordyceps because there has never been a need for one. Since there's no vaccine and they already have so many possible infected missing there is no way of containing it.

[@davidsamollow]

No. It's extreme. It's insane to think otherwise.

[@sagelemmers7009]

With the cordyceps having infested the food supply, it showed up everywhere, all at once - there was no single Patient Zero, everyone who ate the contaminated flour became the Patient Zero in a localized outbreak, and with the bitten turning so quickly, the spread became exponential. The professor knew this was far bigger than the 14 missing factory workers.

[@TheAsmodha]

Just a correction about the game lore. In the game, the spores can't live in direct contact of sunlight. That's why, during the last stage of infection, the infected searches for a humid and dark area to die, bind itself to a wall or something and blow the spores. Also, "killing" the infected don't kill the fungus, so that can explain why they encounter so many sunlight areas with the carcass of the fungus.

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Thank you for the insight!

[@Tatsuya2014]

but is that after the bloater stage? How long does it take them to die lol

[@actually_a_catt]

@@Tatsuya2014 depends on the body. Like Joel said, some only last a few weeks, some have been walking around for twenty years. I think bloaters and clickers only happen with really resilient bodies that had a lot of stamina and vitality in life.

[@zakry3905]

@@DrHopeSickNotes He's not actually 100% correct... in reality, the spores can survive in sunlight, but they won't commonly be found outside because the wind disperses them too thinly to be infectious. Due to this, the infected seek out dark and damp conditions when they are nearing death, which is why they are found in sewers, tunnels, and college dorms in the game.

[@josephwatkins1190]

With the clickers it's confirmed in the game I think that the fungus eats the organs of the infected it doesn't need because the mycelium basically replaced their function which is why they can survive so long. In the case of the one with the fungus on the head it's skull did split open as the fungus eats the part of the brain it's not using to control the body, then grows outwards splitting the skull open as it bursts through the eye sockets and nasal cavities due to the bone being thinner there.

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Awww of course! Gonna talk about if they show up again

[@AwesomeIronGuy]

That comment about Pedro Pascal and needing to show his face had me rolling on the floor laughing

[@FulcanMal]

I should have seen it coming, but then the punchilne hit me like a ton of hilarious bricks.

[@NewFoundLife]

Jakarta also produces a ton of the world's flour, which is why it spread so quickly in the tv show. I think because the infection spreads so quickly inside a person, within 24 hours at the most, they just don't have any anti-fungals that can work that quickly and aggressively. Also, one of the theories is that this particular cordyceps mutation is absurdly resilient, so trying to treat it with traditional anti-fungals is like rubbing Neosporin on necrotic flesh. It survived in flour that would have been cooked at 350F/176C, it survives for years with limited nutrients, and it only takes a small dose to fully infect a human.

[@toomanyaccounts]

Ergot poisoning was throughout European history since the fungus on rye when baked survived the heat and water. baking flour into bread would kill most anything else harmful so for a time the connection wasn't spotted. there are ways to remove ergot from rye but these are expensive hence the outbreak in modern times when a flour processing plant cut corners. most cases of ergot poisoning today are from medications that have ergot alkaloids

[@timothysilviajr8055]

I love the game and show! They used a mutated form of Cordyceps that undergone quick and enormous evolution to where it can withstand high heat, human body temperatures and our complex immune system where it somehow overcame our defenses. This type of evolutionary act, if it happens at all, could take thousands of years to do so I love how they made it mutate so quickly.

[@RB_Eldritch]

The cooking is still a sticking point in my opinion, baking in particular, i think people probably got infected from handling flour and dough, and from products that have flour sprinkled on them like certain bread loaves,, rather than eating just any flour based food, cooking in a pan does leave some leway for it to survive though.

[@ToxicAWOL]

Oh fun note: at 13:30 when you are talking about the infected, in the game they are called clickers. They are evolved to be hyper aware with auditory signals, to the point where the "clicking" can be a form of echolocation, albeit a rough version of it. I am super happy how close to the game they are following it as the clickers are hyper aggressive and will try to kill their target like it tries in the show instead of just infecting them.

[@CChissel]

The actors that played the clickers are actual fans of the games, so they knew exactly what to do to imitate them, and I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure that was by design, they specifically looked for people that knew the game intimately. So pleased with this show

[@carlito19934]

Not echo location echolocations means seeing by hearing if you stand still and makr no sound they just dont register you so deff not echolocations by any fucking means

[@ToxicAWOL]

@@CChissel See the fact that they ACTUALLY know the source material makes me so happy. Beats whatever the fuck Halo was x.x

[@CChissel]

@@carlito19934 they do if you’re close, the clicks are what that’s used for. You can actually test it out yourself. Close your eyes and click, then get close to a wall or large object and click again, the sound changes. It’s why they don’t just run into walls and stuff but they’ll probably just think you’re an inanimate object instead, unless they bump into you or you make noise. It’s echolocation.

[@CChissel]

@@ToxicAWOL For sure! It’s like.. finally a group of people actually respecting the source and wanting to do it right. Gives me a lot of hope for the future of this show.

[@johnsmith6132]

I’m not even joking if you do the entire series I’m tuning in for all of them

[@shiningfaceofluzon5594]

7:00 I don't remember where I read it from, but someone who played the video game explained Ellie's "immunity." There are many kinds of cordyceps; the one featured hijacking people's brains is called UNILATERIS. Ellies immunity is actually the result of one of many cordyceps (not cordyceps Unilateris) already occupying her and preventing UNILATERIS from entering her body.

[@TheSDB13]

I think the writers have said that the fungus doesn't spread through spores for the series since it'd be hard to show compared to a game (especially with how it stayed concentrated in certain areas compared to irl where the wind and stuff would likely carry it) and they don't want the stars to have gas masks on for the majority of the time. This version is more of a hive mind sort of thing from what I can gather. Edit: I rewatched the scene where the doctor recommends bombing and you were a bit incredulous about it especially with anti-fungals but I think there's a line said by the general that played into her recommendation. He said that the people that women bit had to be executed a few hours later. If it spreads that quick and causes such aggressiveness to warrant execution I don't think any anti-fungal is gonna be able to be applied in time and there's atleast 15 vectors of spread not accounted for (patient zero and fourteen missing workers) and with such aggressiveness seen in episode 1 I don't think a quarantine is going to be enforceable so the only vector to stop the spread is to destroy it.

[@MARYWTHER]

Yeah that was my theory too about the bombing. She's asked for all the numbers, how many patients were infected, how many were missing, how fast it was going, etc. To me, it's the main component of her maths, the fact that it's spreading THAT FAST. Even tho there are anti-fungal treatments, there is none for cordyceps, and there was none in 2003 for sure, so you'd think she'd had all this figured out. Like how long it would take to come up with some miracle cure about an unknown super-evolution of a fungus that is basically mostly unknown as well in its methods of infecting only insects, so imagine humans. Not to mention that the general also said that it came from a grain and flour factory, which means she also probably thought about the market, exportation, importation, circulation. They don't know how patient 0 got infected: did they get bitten too? Did they eat the flour and that started it all? Did they breathe the flour and that started it all? Basically tons of alarming elements, no real answers to help figure out how to prevent more people getting infected super fast and in turn, infecting more and more people. I can easily see how she'd go like "yeah... it's the end..."

[@TheSDB13]

@@MARYWTHER Which probably explains why she asked to be with her family

[@theLOSTranger234]

all this true, and interesting- and the woman WAS the BEST in her field too, as she said she devoted her whole life to her work on fungus, (sound like a fun-gal?).. anyways, so yea, she did ask all the needed questions and kinda took a moment before looking up to the general telling him to bomb the city, if SHE calculated there's no real hope to save the city, then.. there wasnt, and destroying everything was the only and best solution maybe if she told him to destroy the city and pray??.... but ... also the fact, she could not stop from tumbling while holding her tea cup, showed how scared she was by her realization of how bad the situation was

[@Amaritudine]

You could practically see her running the numbers in her head: the rate at which the infection takes hold, how quickly and easily it can spread, and the number of missing - presumably infected - people still at large in a city of 9 million people after more than a day. She almost certainly worked out that there was no practicable way to contain the infection through conventional measures. She also likely knew that there's no way the military would actually agree to start bombarding the population. She knew it was over already, and just gave her completely frank assessment.

[@HiAndHello-w9l]

@@Amaritudine I think the absurdity of the answer plays into why she suggested it. We all know how easily people can inglorious expert opinions on dangerous infections (cough COVID desires cough) and she needs to effectively convey how hopeless desperate this situation is to a military man, not a doctor or a colleague. So when she says born the city, she telling him they are absolutely fucked and MAYBE just maybe, the might limit the spread with a scorched earth policy, but a Pyrrhic victory is the best they can hope for

[@blitzgirl6522]

"The infected WhatsApp group" had me cackling! Your videos on this show so far have been entertaining and I'm glad you're appreciating the concepts this story is presenting!

[@logygm4335]

that was a really good one

[@JanetSnakehole28]

There's a theory that the fungus works as a symbiote a la Venom & produces glucose to feed the host, just to keep the body ticking along for the job of spreading the disease. Could kick in after a certain point in the infection when all fat reserves, etc have run out & the fungus panics. Pretty cool idea, I think Roanoke Gaming came up with it.

[@hellfish2309]

yeah they imply the parasitism isn’t strictly consumption, as the smoking scientist suggests our derivation of medications from fungus could be a mechanism implemented by the fungal parasite to keep it’s [human] host resilient to bioweapons and in turn immunization

[@danielaacevedo1150]

What appears weird to me is that in tlou2 they find dead animals that were killed and eaten by infected humans, maybe they also look for food by themselves?

[@Amaritudine]

It makes sense that the infected host would try to keep themselves fed and hydrated - it's not much use to the fungus if it dies too quickly. Cannibalising some of their uninfected victims would sadly make sense, especially since the infection can apparently metabolise human tissue with ease.

[@baron6588]

And when it panics, then come the spores as an emergency measure by the fungus to continue spreading, Craig said that their not technically removing spores from the show, but just think it doesn’t need to be in the story in this first season, but said nothing about later seasons.

[@hellfish2309]

@@baron6588 seems like the spore mechanic is pretty guaranteed as written out, otherwise the wall mounted Clicker in the first ep woulda spored the shit outta that place; if its host is trapped in the dark w/ no chance of food, why wouldn’t the fungus discharge dormant spores into the air?

[@anonymous4k4k]

Its so terrifying to think about the infection , especially the clicker stage. The people infected know what’s happening to them but have no control over their actions and are having a really bad trip on top of that , and to feel a mushroom piercing through your skull and flesh from the brain without being able to do anything about it i find horrific. To me these are the scariest zombies to think about it

[@GoldenLeafsMovies]

I'd think by that point the fungus would spread/cause enough damage that there would be no conscious anymore and it's just the fungus controlling the brain.

[@anonymous4k4k]

@@GoldenLeafsMovies true to be fair i think at some point that would be the case so maybe not the clicker phase , but during the stalker phase i think theyd still be able to feel it

[@GoldenLeafsMovies]

@@anonymous4k4k Yeah, I think that's why they sometimes scream or cry, which makes it more screwed up.

[@anonymous4k4k]

@@GoldenLeafsMovies thats so disturbing in the games when you can hear them crying

[@DizRupTnz]

@@GoldenLeafsMovies Yeah, the conciousness has surely gone by the time they hit Clicker stage. However in the games it takes around a year to become a Clicker (assuming the host body survives), so that's still a year of being trapped in your body as a Runner or Stalker. Slowly fading away in a prison of your own flesh that's becoming not your own, bit by bit. How lucid you are remains to be seen, but the games show Infected sobbing and crying when not 'active' so there is definitely some lucidity, if at least at first.

[@HoodieHorizon]

I saw a game theory video about Ellie’s “immunity”. It’s not that her body is capable of killing the fungus. Instead she’s immune because she’s infected with a second fungus that attacks the first. Which I would say makes more sense. Because if it’s the immune system then it would eventually wipe it all out leaving her as negative, but with a second fungus it’s possible that it’s just keeping it from spreading rather than completely killing it

[@GoldenLeafsMovies]

Didn't they explain in the game that it mutated and that's why she's immune?

[@HoodieHorizon]

@@GoldenLeafsMovies mostly the same thing. Different strain, haven’t seen that vid in a hot minute, just the general idea

[@themugwump33]

Doctor: “here I have a bunch of germs illustrated by these cute and cuddly little guys here, and this door is your body, and as you can see, they’re all trying to get in at once. We’re now calling this Montgomery Burns syndrome.” Ellie: “so you’re saying I’m immortal??” Doctor: “not in the slightest! I mean, even a gentle breeze could send you-“ Ellie: “Im-mor-ta-lity! …excellent.”

[@chriswhinery925]

@@themugwump33 Lol love it.

[@gnaius]

This makes sense! It also explains why she keeps testing positive. So that would mean the long-term hope is to get her version of the fungus into others. So even if they are bit, they don't turn

[@happymcdull-4209]

Considering the fact that Joel is a scary mother, taking on loads of people as a smuggler, he's most likely been in a lot of fights. So the "multiple traumas" you mentioned is pretty accurate to his lifestyle, considering he was easily able to guesstimate the kind of hand injury he got

[@CelestialDraconis]

9:40 Lol I love your snark there cause you are so right xD

[@ZiriO]

Love seeing you break these down! Also it's funny, the special effects when they were cutting into the victims actually squicked me out and I had to look away for a bit! Funny how I can handle that kind of thing in a video game but if the makeup artists do a great enough job with the practical effects I have to duck out 🤣

[@scirrhia_kruden]

I don't know of any antifungals that are actually safe for humans to ingest, which is kinda important if the fungus can survive INSIDE a human. All the antifungals I know of are topical ointments for topical infections, and have all sorts of giant warnings to not get them near your mouth.

[@chriswhinery925]

Regarding the section "how long can you live without food", remember that at a certain point the human host is effectively already dead and it's the fungus itself that's living by devouring the host. How long humans can survive without food isn't really relevant to how long an infected could survive since the fungus can keep living even when the human is dead, the relevant factors would be how well the fungus can preserve the hosts tissues so they don't decompose and how much of the host the fungus has to consume over a period of time to keep going (how long can the fungus stretch it's "rations").

[@chriswhinery925]

@@Me-yq1fl That isn't how it looks in the show at all. I think you're wrong. We never see the infected eating. All we ever see is them using their mouth tentacles to infect other people. If the infected need to eat then they should be devouring their victims. But they aren't doing that.

[@ollie395]

Too bad you didn't cover the creepy and weird "kiss" as you could call it. But anyway, it's very nice to hear how close this all is to reality, what's real and where the leaps in logic take place! Very interesting!

[@theLOSTranger234]

not really spoilers: but is sorry, that is the one main difference I see between the game and the tv show, in game it was the military from the city- they managed to track them down, and Tess, whose infected in show and game (btw she was bitten in the exact same spot of tv show and game so nice detail) anyways, she stayed behind so joel and ellie could get away, (I forget "HOW" Tess died in the game though.... it wasnt the same way as tv show dont believe......

[@Amaritudine]

​@@theLOSTranger234 In the game, the Fireflies at the old town hall had died in a shootout with FEDRA soldiers. Reinforcements from FEDRA arrived after Tess had revealed her infection; she was killed in the ensuing firefight to cover Ellie and Joel's escape. The "kiss" from the TV adaptation makes grim sense if you think of it in terms of the infection simply trying to propagate itself. No need to claw or bite at prey that aren't trying to fight or flee, not when the infected can just regurgitate fungal tissue straight into the target's body. It's similar to what we saw the infected grandmother doing to one of her victims in the first episode.

[@iconoclast6555]

I think the moment that the professor knew that a bunch of people from the factory were missing, she knew containment/quarantine would be hopeless. We just saw how it was with Covid, especially in a third world country like Indonesia which is also very porous - very similar to my country which is also very porous and also 3rd world. Governments may try lockdown but as soon as even a handful of people get accounted for, it'll just be close to impossible to stop the disease.

[@enbysheriff]

What I liked about this episode's cold opening is that the idea of bombing came from the medical professional. Not only that mut the military man, the person who should be used to bombing, is in utter shock and horror at the idea

[@ramahikari1014]

That, and the fact that Indonesia at that time still struggling from their previous crisis in 90s making military logistic to bomb the whole town in 30 hours is impossible, so yeah, the general knows they're fucked up.

[@MinkyTwats]

@@ramahikari1014 not just town but the Entire City.. hell even the Entire Country at this point but nevertheless the World is fücked and humanity is already doomed.

[@Antony_Oscar]

Yeah, it's about the emotional impact. You could imagine military making such a suggestion, but when it's a scientist... you know it's bad.

[@micahmendoza288]

I loved where he referenced the mandalorian talking about not showing Pedro's face 😁

[@thecartoonrobot]

Just a quick fact, some fungi do utilize capillary movement, and some species do produce spore with flagella that are utilized for movement and propulsion. So, fungi are not universally immobile.

[@jessicahall7370]

Your explanation of infection rate also explains the proliferation of limb amputation in the Boston QZ seen in episode 1. You get bit in arm/leg, then there’s a window of opportunity to cut away infected area.

[@diannebdee]

I don't think Joel is on the Adkins diet. That was just him avoiding eating food her perhaps didn't want to eat. Considering how Mr. Adler was feeding the biscuits to his mother. Sarah didn't like raisins therefore, she didn't eat the cookies. Because he was late getting home from work, Joel forgot the cake. It was all just like they narrowly kept missing out on the flour due to a set of circumstances, not due to the Adkins diet. Remember Joel was relieved they didn't have any pancake mix/flour so they had eggs that Sarah cracked the shells into.

[@wickermind6668]

You were pretty spot-on with Clickers (the infected with the plates growing out of their face). Clickers are infected who've survived for several months, which gives the fungus enough time for plates to erupt out of the head and through the face. Due to this, it actually renders the hosts completely blind, forcing them to rely on echolocation, which is why they croak and click, giving them their name. Eyesight is usually the first to go when one's been infected with Cordyceps due to the fungus targeting the brain and eyes, even Runners (the newly infected) have poor eyesight, which only gets worse as the fungus destroys their eyes and face when transitioning to a Stalker, and eventually to a Clicker.

[@purpleYamask]

The "large exploding infected" ellie mentions are also in the game, but only a couple times as bosses.

[@Knightmare435]

You would think that a fungus couldn't possibly spread from a bite on your foot to your brain in 24 hours (Or from your face/neck into your brain in a few minutes) but there are some fungi capable of growing at rates up to 0.2 inches a minute when the resources for its growth are available. If this Ophidiocordyceps was consuming tissues as it expanded (or once it accesses the blood it can rapidly colonize in or around the brain) its possible that the fungi is flooding your blood stream with psychoactive chemicals to cause the initial symptoms (the twitching, agitation, psychosis, coughing and biting) as it colonizes the mouth to permit further transmission quickly. The mouth growths may actually erupt once the infection has progressed past that point which is why its only really present on people who have shown symptoms previous to losing their minds.

[@kholwayd9839]

Just a note: In the game, the infected actually eat. You can sometimes surprise them while eating scraps, leftovers, animals, and all the food they can find. Of course, in a post-apocalyptic world, free food isn't something that you can find everywhere. This is the limiting factor to the infected's lifespans.

[@OGSinisterPotato]

I've been avoiding all The Last of us videos because it's infecting KZbin like a disease but the second I saw you upload on the topic my blood froze. Never clicked so fast. This channel is perfection.

[@OGSinisterPotato]

Pun not intended

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Thank you!

[@jembawls]

Another great vid as always doc! I really hope you keep up with the series. I just watched this with a friend and was just saying that the observations and information you present in these vids give me a greater and deeper understanding of what the writers likely intended with all their subtle details that I had missed.

[@matthewleisure8769]

Joel isn’t actually on Adkins diet. He was going to eat a cake with Sarah that night. He just didn’t want to eat any of the biscuits😂

[@evenglare]

Hey great video! I'm no biologist or mycologist , but I did get my degree in astrophysics. The last video you said that it's not possible or rather highly unlikely that a cordyceps could jump from say an ant (or whatever other species) to a human because they evolved that way with that particular host. That's fair enough, totally agree. BUT that's the thing about science right? You want to make sense or explain the phenomena with the information we have over a subject of documented patterns from similar systems. But that's the thing right? A major point about why this is so scary is that it's new. Something completely different that hasn't been seen before. The frontier is when you find something out that *almost* can be described but in some prominent way that doesn't conform to established theories. That's why science exists. The idea that we see stars orbiting what is essentially nothing, makes no sense, then you find out about neutron stars or black holes. On the leading edge we have dark matter holding galaxies together. We have Dark energy accelerating the universal expansion. We have no clue what those are, except that they have properties that we can describe, but other properties that we just simply do not understand at this point, but it happens. I'd hesitate to completely dismiss something like this human cordycep outright. The machination of life, is far far far more complex than physics, and we don't even have that figured out yet. It's not a worry for anyone because it can't happen... until it does. Need I remind people that Anatoly Dyatlov was adamant that it was impossible that Chernobyl could explode. He knew in every fiber of his being it was physically impossible. Ya know... until it did.

[@Oddball_E8]

I saw some video about Ellies condition. It was speculating that Ellie is infected by *another* cordyceps strain that is actually used as an anti-fungal medicine, meaning it kills off the "dangerous" cordyceps but still tests positive since it's a cordyceps. And that's why she's "immune" to the dangerous one. (She's not actually "immune", she's just infected by something else that stops the other one from infecting her.) It's an interesting theory. (Game theory! That's where I saw it! Just remembered now :P )

[@PyroOfZen]

I've always had a theory about Ellie's immunity, and you sorta touched on why. There is undeniably a fungus within her body (which isn't just a case in the show. This was a fact in the game as well). By all accounts, she is infected, but is asymptomatic. The fungus spread to her brain, and likely to the rest of the body as well, but it's my theory that it mutated in an unfortunate way (either in the infected who bit Ellie, or within Ellie before the incubation period was over), which makes it incapable of taking control of its host. It also doesn't progress to a point where it starts sprouting from her head, so even the spread and growth seems to become dormant. One thing is certain: It's still alive. It at no point dies off and then gets discarded by her immune system--honestly I think a fungal organism that widespread just dying off inside you would probably cause a lot more problems than the immune system could handle, but I'll leave that up to the medical doctor ;) The conclusion of this theory is that Ellie is not inherently special. She is not immune like the game or show claims. The fungus within her is just "broken" for lack of a better word. From the game, we know spores have a pretty rough, immediately noticeable effect on uninfected. They cough and sputter, but Ellie can breathe them in all day and night, and not show a single form of irritation. I believe the fungus within an infected's body also eradicates other invading fungi, likely to ensure that several individual organisms aren't vying for control within a single host. I think the hive mind aspect depicted in the show makes this less likely to be the case, as the individual organisms appear to cooperate quite intricately, but we have yet to see the immediate effects spores have on an uninfected person and Ellie in the show, so who knows. All just my opinion, of course, so grain of salt and all that. If my theory is correct, then all it would take for a "vaccine" to be developed is to get a sample of the fungus in Ellie and purposefully infect others with it (with a bit of genetic engineering required to be absolutely sure, I suspect). This has a major implication for the ending of the game (and I assume the show), but I'm not gonna spoil it here.

[@MarieTilly]

This theory is great!

[@gioiamariella]

Love your review of the series! I actually find it highly interesting how they were able to translate video game elements into "real life" practical effects. The clickers (zombies with mushrooms on their heads) look SO TERRIFYING. When you play the game a couple of times you get used to it, but I do remember Pedro and Bella saying that all the infected they have in the show are makeup and practical effects... the attention to detail of this show is just sooooo goooood!

[@dannileemeow]

Chemotaxis is amazing and fun to watch. I'm a bacteriologist and love teaching people about how bacteria move both in a mechanical sense and with various chemicals in the environment. For fungal, I have only seen Candida grow in 24 hours. It is crazy how fast Candia auris has started being a huge problem in hospitals now and pretty resistant!

[@fanonfridge]

Fungating Tumours are a thing I could quite happily have gone to the grave without knowing about. So thank you for that.

[@MARYWTHER]

Something I noticed in this video and not when watching the episode (this has NOTHING to do with the medicine side of things), is the sound ambiance during the whole first scene. It's so reminiscent of Chernobyl, the looming threat and all, the same kinds of vibes in the music. It's such a great ambiance for a end-of-the-world-like show. So ominous, so powerful.

[@coma4330]

the two creators of the show, one of them is Craig Mazik who actually created the Chernobyl show, the other being Neil Druckmann who was the creative director and lead developer for the game. This honestly shows that HBO actually cares about the material and wants people who will truly do it justice. I think the show is an amazing first step to getting more good video game adaptations in the future, i personally thought episode 3 was an amazing deviation from the original game and it was done very tastefully.

[@adrianbrown9423]

I'm really hoping you keep this up for the rest of the series. Very cool to get a doctor's perspective on all these things!

[@jaives]

from his experience in Chernobyl, Craig Mazin avoided spored because taking masks on/off was a pain to shoot. in addition to not seeing your stars' faces, you get audio and continuity issues

[@pavelZhd]

7:14 there is a pretty nice analysis of this Ellie immunity on Game Theory channel. And their hypothesis is - prior to getting bitten by cordiceps-zombie, Ellie got another fungal infection. The thing is - a lot of fungi will try to avoid competition with different fungi species by producing anti-fungal agents that don't work again them but wipe out their competitors. So Ellie having another infection by a non mind-altering fungi makes her immune while still testing positive. And the implications here are - 1 it is technically possible to study her blood to isolate this cordiceps-killing agent and thus develop a cure. And two - probably she is not unique in having this kind of immunity... But most likely others who have it either never had a bite to need it. And those who got bitten probably were executed by others to not risk it. ... And this is why in the case of actual zombie abocalypse you don't just shoot people because they got bitten. You isolate and monitor them and only shoot when they show symptoms.

[@gacchan]

So glad you did more of this. Honestly, even though some of the science in this is a bit exaggerated, it really is impressive how much of it is grounded in reality.

[@kaiielle]

These videos are so fantastic, thank you! Looking forward to your thoughts on future episodes!

[@Iden_Elihio_1999]

7:57 THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING THIS BECAUSE I WAS CONSTANTLY ASKING WHAT " HAIRLINE " WAS HE TALKING ABOUT !?!

[@MrMadcow44]

I’m currently in nursing school and this is my favorite story series. WIN WIN

[@BoyBlunder66]

A pet theory I have is that they're using the fungal network to explain some of the more specialized infected, like the clickers. The idea behind their design is that the hardened fungal growth around their face exists specifically to shield the brain from damage, but in the game, they never established how the fungus would know to do that. I think they might explain it in the show by saying that the network itself has some level of intelligence, like a hivemind, and that it's at least smart enough to guide the fungus to grow in such advantageous ways.

[@emilbroseliger8506]

On the last of us podcast the creators also said that “carefull listeners will be rewarded with little bits & breadcumbs of knowledge”, & that breadcrumbs part pointes towards bread amd flour:)

[@magne7771]

One thing about the fungus, is that it is weirdly symbiotic, feeding the body nutrients in order to gain some form of mobility. To have _some_ kind of vector with which to spread. Technically, _you_ die, but your _body_ survives, so long as nutrients can be fed into it, like through an IV. Plus, whenever the infected are resting, they're connected to the fungus. Some, having to wrench themselves free.

[@archeryguy1701]

The showrunners actually addressed the lack of spores in the show... real world spores obviously get everywhere, and would theoretically be really hard to avoid. So the showrunners felt that the concept of spores staying extremely isolated/locational to a specific building/room/area like in the games would stretch the suspension of disbelief a little too far. And, like you noted, they didn't want their stars spending extended periods hidden behind gas masks, haha.

[@Xunkun]

8:42 - I think they do this to close up one minor plothole in the games: the environmental damage is often too severe for 'just' infected rampaging, so fantheory had it that there may have been other concurrent natural disasters at the time; earthquakes and floods and the like. Here, the entire world went full-on Racoon City to explain whole buildings toppled in just 20 years of neglect.

[@AngryShooter]

I think the show so far as done a good job at retaining the most interesting aspects of how real world fungi works, and knowing where to sacrifice realism to the benefit of the story.

[@speterm_004]

In the game and also the series, the prologue parts take place in 2003, so there's a chance that there were no, or not as effective antifungals that time

[@katjafrandsen1687]

For the spores, it's certainly been removed so as to not have the actors wear gas masks all the time, but it's also because in a video game it's way easier to suspend your belief that spores stay concentrated in one room/around one body rather than be carried away by the wind. In a live action TV series, the existence of spores would make everyone question how there's even any humans alive because it'd be way harder to actually lead a life if spores were implemented and worked as they would in the real world. Instead of the spores, they've made the fungi more aware and able to control a horde through a hivemind.

[@catgurl7947]

I just watched an interview with a mycologist talking about this show. I think you should check it out. It's on the New Rockstars channel. Hearing your take on this show from your perspective as a doctor and now the mycologist has made me enjoy this show even more. I can not wait for your take on 3rd episode

[@renskedunnewold1995]

Jesus, those fungating tumors sound horrifying. I think I'm too scared to google that

[@ImaJWalker]

if you notice, during the opening credits the cordyceps is the shape of entire United States ( as if to show it covered everything.) then shows it morphing into an infected human, then into Joel and Ellie. Awesome visuals.

[@HuskyMN2002]

9:41 Mandalorian shows up with the windows error sound effect 😂

[@sparklymishy96]

The underground network reminds me of why they say not to pick off a moldy spot on bread and eat the rest. Because it has already spread but you just can’t see all of it.

[@JustMe-gz4pu]

Back in the late 1800’s there was a bizarre outbreak of murders and suicides in Black River falls and Menomonie WI. It’s now thought that there was an ergot infection going around.

[@blobbydubs]

Speaking about the Clickers, the infected with their heads covered in fungus, the fungus does not grow around their face, if you look up concepts of their skulls, what happens is that the fungus becomes so massive that it breaks through the bone and exposes itself on the open

[@geminidcollective9221]

There are timeskips in between scenes in the show, so it could be believable during the scene with the mycologist that there was no such antifungal treatment available to help- both because it may not have existed yet or because their country is a second-world/third-world country.

[@makoent2231]

I only just realized after watching this video that the third episode is up now. Monday here in New Zealand, and its online at 3PM. It's 15:54 now.

[@jaytrip542]

Also, computer scientist here, the Japanese authorities used the "blob" fungi to solve a huge problem of finding the perfect map for their metro train system. Essentially the nutrients acted as a node of high density population and the way the fungi grew gave them the right way of building the train system. Or something like that.

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

Yes, I was hoping you would do more! I'm really loving how you break this series down

[@halokilla45]

She recommended bombing because of how quickly it spreads and the TERRIBLE response time they had 30 hours since the first attack and the person killed wasn’t even patient Zero and that 14 other workers were missing/infected it was way too late

[@shkotayd9749]

Doc, you are doing this incredible show the justice it deserves :D The nasty dudes at the end did echolocation through clicks though!

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Thanks! It’s a fantastic show. That would explain things a lot

[@theLOSTranger234]

at least more so in the game, in the show, seem they had super hearing~ just point out, maybe its both too?

[@shkotayd9749]

@@theLOSTranger234 echolocation is literally super hearing. You can almost see and with a lot of accuracy, the spaces around you and your target.

[@theLOSTranger234]

@@shkotayd9749 yea, what I meant was like, echolocation, they used the clicks, like bats screeches sending the sound out an bounches off the walls and stuff- which is how they were in the game- what I was kinda gettin from them in the show- the "clickers" where down stairs on the other side of the building it seems, and they heard when anyone made the tinyest noise and all came running! not really echolocation- but ultra hearing (yea echolocation is seeing with sound- they dont see the sound but just hear it from FAR AWAY, (or maybe they "feel" the vibrations in the ground like toph from avatar the last airbender)

[@shkotayd9749]

@@theLOSTranger234 Well I dont quite understand it in full, but constant echolocation seems to be a pretty good substitute for actual sight as we know it.

[@scottpowell8973]

According to Matt Patt, Ellie isn't immue but infected with a different fungus that doesn't turn her into a zombie but does keep the other fungus out of her body.

[@AmataTai]

Through background details Game theory showed that Ellie is most likely infected by an alternate strain of cordyceps that is not the zombie strain, which releases a common antifungal that would prevent a zombie strain from being able to take root and competing

[@ShinigamiH]

Don’t know if it’s been verbally explained in the show yet (has been visually), as time progresses with the infected individuals, they lose their eyesight. The two in the room couldnt see in the dark but react to sound (think they also react to contact of light but not sure) Also I think the growth of the fungus around the skull acts like an extra protective measure for the infected brain.

[@testfire3000]

This is a lot of fun and great insight. I don't really know what else you cover but this is good enough for a subscribe!

[@fishsteakyelk341]

Those split head open infected are nicknamed Clickers since their vocal cords are so degraded that they can only make contorted and clicking sounds which act as a sort of echo location

[@lizrochester80]

I don’t think I’d be able to watch this show but I am really interested in the science behind it so I appreciate and enjoy your commentary on it!

[@GoldYT722]

thanks man for explaining how this could never happen but still make me creeped out by the show because of all the details but still really good explanations

[@onizuka]

Enjoying you talk about it. Please keep posting em until the season is over.

[@codycarnes8200]

The whole no medicine part, It's 2003 in the beginning of the outbreak. 20 years makes a difference.

[@Iden_Elihio_1999]

11:36 That looks like the intro of the game .... I would not be surprised that the game intro was inspired by the , " Blob ....... "

[@lunarsnowberry]

I saw some people talking about why the fungus only grew the most around the head, I thought it was because the cordyceps wants to get to the highest point for its spores in real life so maybe it's the same in TLOU universe.

[@Amaritudine]

It seems to resemble the spread of _ophiocordyceps unilateralis_ in ants. It grows throughout the body, surrounding the ant's muscles so that it can basically control the insect like a puppet, but the infection only becomes visible when it erupts from the host's head.

[@Amateur.Nail.Art.1]

I made the mistake of googling Fungating tumor. I can never unsee that now. But you are very right how the fungal growth on the “clicker” does look similar in nature to that.

[@RandalReid]

I made the mistake of googling Fungating tumor because you said you made the mistake of googling Fungating tumor. Thanks you bastard : )

[@Amateur.Nail.Art.1]

@@RandalReid There is the mischievous part of me laughing gleefully at this comment. We can share the scarring experience. 😂

[@arcticwulf5796]

@@RandalReid I didn't Google it it first message, but I did from this one. Eww, feels like you should just cut them out straight away.

[@iamthejolson]

So in the game at least that fully infected is called a "Clicker" and can't see due to the intense fungal buildup on their head. They use a form of echolocation though, thus the clicking sound.

[@OthelloSilvermoon]

It's a running theory in historical areas that Argot was used by viking Berserker, to help them go into their famous rages.

[@HM4Hill]

Fun fact the Salem Witch trials over here in the US is theorized to have been caused by a strand of Ergot fungus in the wheat. Apparently Fungi arent very fun guys after all

[@TheBaconWizard]

How about the mycelium doesn't grow outward from the site of the wound to the brain, but small pieces or even spores can break-off and travel through the blood-stream until they lodge somewhere and begin to grow there too... that might explain the speed.

[@demetrius1942]

Thanks for the diagnosis Doc lol. I really enjoy your take on this I hope to see more content in the future.

[@AlteredCreation]

On the hairline fracture, I was given a diagnosis of a hairline fracture when I fell approximately one story onto my side hitting the ankle on the ground, going by your definition what I had was a closed non-displaced fracture. I'm not sure if doctors use the term interchangeably with closed non-displaced fracture, but it was definitely expressed to me as a hairline fracture.

[@TheLaw2063]

in The Last of Us (Game) Spores can infect people, very often Infected reaching the end of their life span and being unable to go on with the state of their bodies, rush to cold, humid, dark places, lean up against a wall and die there while the Fungus produces spores, in the TVShow that idea was cut because the actors using Gas masks alll the time wouldt be convenient, so it was replaced with the network of Fungus on the ground that can alert hordes as far as Kilometers away from the place.

[@lunacouer]

What's interesting about the real Cordyceps is it was discovered that when it infects ants, it doesn't actually infect the brain at all. Doesn't even touch it. What it does is surrounds and infiltrates the ant's muscle cells, then grows a network of hyphal tubes which communicate with each other. It's like it makes a secondary nervous system, but only for the muscles. Then, via a mystery process of detecting the exact leaf it wants the ant to go to, it forces the ant to move in that direction, using chemical signaling to move the ant's muscles. So it's not really mind control. It's more a sophisticated way to turn an ant into a car. And when I say exact, I mean exact. The leaf is always 25 cm off the ground on the North side, and the ant always clamps down on a vein on the underside of the leaf. Basically, the optimum conditions for it to grow within the ant and reproduce. So in the Last of Us, the fungus being in the muscles is closer to what the real cordyceps does than just being gross, lol. Of course, it takes a week for it to happen in an ant, so yeah, probably more like a month in a human, lol. Definitely long enough to know something is wrong. But still, it's creepy to think of a creature possibly having some awareness while it's being forced to move against its will. It's more like the original concept of zombies that came from Haitian culture. If anyone want to know more, there's a KZbin video by the channel Real Science that goes over this. It's called "Could the Cordyceps Fungus Really Take Over?"

[@Christian_Ellingsen]

I like your reactions! :D I wish you'd show a bit more though, from the show itself! :D Keep it up!

[@Da3mic]

Woot Sunday! Means new episode tonight and a new video!! Can’t wait!!😁

[@maybeyourbaby6486]

Such a good video!! 🥰 I legit think that HBO should partner with you, hearing your doctor's perspective really enhances everything. :) Also, I'm thinking the scientist going "bomb them" was just a bit of a fanservice moment 😅 I mean, I think we were all thinking it after the last episode lol

[@ASLTheatre]

This show makes me appreciate Bleach White Flour. What we use to store and clean flour with.

[@terithetacticalunicorn6003]

To be fair, in The Mandalorian, it isn't always Pedro under the helmet. He would pre-record most of his lines, and a stunt double would be in the suit.

[@ColrathD]

As far as Joel's injury being a hairline fracture, in this universe Joel has been fighting to survive and he has absolutely been in different fights up to this point. To me it is reasonable to believe that he has been diagnosed with a hairline fracture due--punching a lot of different people, infected or not, with his fist. I can imagine Joel sitting in as clean as possible room in at a FEDRA hospital with the consultation going something like, "You've got to tone it with the outbursts of rage when you see a military personal holding a gun because of your previous trauma with a soldier killing your daughter 20 years ago, then proceeding to beat them in the face with your hand until they're dead. It's really bad for your hand. Have you considered alternatives, like a pipe or a bat?" As an American, I can attest to this being a normal conversation between us and our doctors considering the hellscape we're living in over here right now. Very plausible Joel does understand that it's an injury from repeatedly punching people in the face.

[@abritabroadinthephilippines]

The Atkins diet comment from Joel was a joke to not eat the food from the neighbor. He was going to buy cake and pancake mix remember but was too lazy. That probably saved him also.

[@martianmason]

i think the game does show Ellie to be a carrier because later, towards the end of the game, she bites a man and explains to him how he's infected now. we don't get to see him turn or anything though so it could just be a bluff

[@magnus33john]

This reminds me of the Martian where the person (in this case persons) behind it really put in the homework and reached out to the professionals to find out how things should work.

[@georgeparkes3863]

Great video thanks! I can’t believe you didn’t mention the Anna Torv infected kiss at the end though! What a way to spread the disease. The grossest thing ever! 😬

[@szariq7338]

I specifically wonder about one thing: Did shroom find itself grain and flour reserves of colder and more dry enviroments like Russia, Scandinavia and central-eastern Europe, which don't rely on imports from equatorial areas, at least that much? If no, then I could definitely see some sort of international resistance against the infection, something similar to Z COM from zombie virus scenario in Plague Inc.