Doctor Who Review - World Enough and Time

The Doctor is ready to give Missy a shot at doing good. What's the worst that could happen?
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[@IonicNebula]

See, I went into this episode 100% blind. I hadn't picked up DW since Hell Bent, so I didn't see anything about John Simms or the Cybermen. Honestly, that made the episode, ugh just so creepy. This version of the Cybermen is just, so creepy and horrifying. Honestly, the best part establishing what was going on was when Bill found out they were just putting the humans cries of pain on mute. That alone was just... uugghhh, it's so horrifying as a concept.

[@wolfwing1]

yeah, the nurse made me go OMG....when I realized he was still hitting the button over and over but nothing was being said.

[@Asimov16]

That is the best thing about original doctor who. The internet didn't exist and so we never knew when the Daleks were going to show up.

[@adrianburchell8075]

except Daleks was in the story title

[@deebeedaydreamer]

Except when they always made the cover of the TV guide.

[@raifintune]

I wnt into this season SO COMPLETELY blind that I didnt even know the master was set to return. Its probably the 1 moment in the series where i felt it was a bonus to not be too deep into the fandom.

[@finn7435]

“I’m cutting to the chase, baby, i’m streamlining, i’m saving us actual minutes” *dabs* i love Missy and she’s scottish so that just makes everything better.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

You know why the original Cybermen were so creepy? Because they weren't bulky and robotic, you could see they had been human once and that makes a difference. It ratches up the creep factor so much when they don't seem like robots.

[@joeworpole2295]

The Lone Ranger right, new who has tried to make them scarier by buffing them and making them more powerful but the scary thing for me when I was young was the idea of someone being kept alive by machines and having their brains and body parts shoved into a metal shell that creeped me and my sister out so much

[@ryno1509]

Missy is meeting her younger self so she'll remember everything and the Master won't that's how it's worked with the doctor, that's why she has no memory of being there before

[@j_6469]

Holy TARDIS, that episode was great. When the biggest issue of the episode that it wasn't marketed well it shows you just how great that episode is. The acting was all phenomenal, the atmosphere is creepy, and the cyberman became so much more scary and interesting. Hope the finale is better than Hell Bent, because I'm worried that The Doctor Falls will be a bit of a mess trying to tie all the plots together.

[@chanceneck8072]

EXACTLY! I mean we kind of got an origin story for the Cyberman right here and it made them one hell of a lot scarier to me, tbh! I just wonder, if Moffat would have come up with this brilliant idea of a story, had Peter Capaldi not stated that he loved the Mondassian Cyberman so much and would like to see them in a story again!....

[@ThatCringeCalledIggleboz]

This episode was great but I HATED the fact that the Mondasian Cybermen stomped.

[@stryletz]

Actually, a lot of this story was inspired by the Big Finish Cyberman story Spare Parts.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

How was it "not marketed well" ? It's been known for months that the Cybermen and the Master will be making return appearances in the Series 10 finale.

[@chanceneck8072]

OMG.................. @ZemplinTemplar That´s exactly the point, that everyone´s trying to make!!!! Fucking stupid!!!!

[@IG7799-c4u]

I kind of hate how they kept the clunky cyberman footstep noise they had from the modern cybermen. Is kind of ruins their creepy silent movement they had back in the Classic series. Anyone who has watched the Tenth planet will know what I mean.

[@tomkenning5482]

I kind of prefer it- they have more of a presence that way, best of both. They're still creepy, they still feel heavy and industrial.

[@NickMaksy]

I wouldnt say its impossible to keep the leaks out. The walking dead does an amazing job of keeping everything secret. Good proof that it can be done, and done well.

[@lorrawrj2189]

Nick Maksy that's the crew's faith in their show. DW can't control that.

[@davidh7088]

Walking Dead is the same every season so it doesn't matter anymore :-/

[@chanceneck8072]

I love your intros, man! Heaven Sent was the perfect example, why! Now I haven´t seen World Enough And Time yet, but I stopped this review at 4 seconds, because I´m going to watch it right the fuck now!! EXCITEMENT!!

[@chanceneck8072]

Okay folks, I´m at the twelve (twelve, lol, funny!) minute mark and at first I was getting frustrated, annoyed and irritated with Missy and her whole bullshit banter, which apparently already cost someone´s life! But the talk between The Doctor and Bill explains almost everything in a beautiful way. This is fun! Kind of a live viewing report, lol.....

[@chanceneck8072]

Okay, 26 minutes, I don´t know if I´m into the episode yet, but that whole part about fast bottom and slow top is fucking BRILLIANT!!

[@chanceneck8072]

Okay, I cried! Conversation´s over, you all saw the episode! 10/10 even though I recognized some massive problems with this episode!

[@chanceneck8072]

M N exactly! Possibly my favourite episode of this season, I have to think about that, because I recognized some problems, but for the whole picture, I pretty much don´t fucking care! I thought better of Heaven Sent upon first viewing (and second, and third, and fourth, because that episode was just fucking awesome in its entirety!!), but I also didn´t hate Hell Bent all that much as most people did... So series 9 finale is still the one to beat for me!

[@Jedi_Spartan]

I like how John Simm Master referenced his time as Harold Saxon during the series 3 final when he reveals himself, as if he won't let that go. And then it's revealed next episode he ruled the lowest floor before being overthrown. I also love Missy pretending to be the doctor

[@FunnyLilNightmare]

I genuinely believe this is one of the best Capaldi episodes and would even call it my favourite Moffat era episode. I had zero spoilers going in (no idea about John or the Cybermen. I don't even watch the next time.) and I am so glad of it. When Bill got the the hospital I actually said "Hey, this would be a great set up for a Cyberman episode." and then when it was revealed it was so exciting and a genuine 'oh no' moment. When Mr Razor was talking to Missy I guessed he was a version of the Master but I actually thought it might be a future regeneration because Missy didn't remember him. One thing I really loved about the episode was how it had this Empty Child feel about it. I don't know if that was intentional or if it was just me but it really worked. It made the whole episode feel really unnerving. I agree with your point about opening with the doctor regenerating. For me, it really doesn't hold any weight to it anymore. It's either going to be a fake out (which they've already done this series) or it's his actual regeneration which we already know is coming. Either way, it's become pretty redundant to even have a scene like that. I really hope they don't ruin it with the second half because they've set it up so well.

[@codyw1]

Agreed. This could easily be the best Capaldi story so long as they don't screw up part 2...

[@CouncilofGeeks]

So jealous you didn't know those things going in. And yeah, fingers crossed for the next one.

[@SuperLaney81]

Oh you lucky thing :)

[@shathriel]

Mr Razor reminded me of Zathras, Babylon 5 and it was nice to see the really classic Cybermen who are far more creepy than the more modern style to me.

[@CaliVsAk]

Ive literally been refreshing your channel since finishing the episode. I need help processing all that lol. Best episode in a while by far.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I do my best to turn these around quickly, honestly it takes more time for the file to convert and get uploaded than it does to shoot and edit it. Be warned, I'm away next weekend so I'm not going to have the review out the same night.

[@CaliVsAk]

Totally understand that. And thanks for the heads up, hope you have a good trip. Keep up the awesome work!

[@wolfwing1]

I so want missy to be the companion from now on hehe :> Someone said it well, forget doctor for a season, have the two masters have to find the doctor.

[@JohnAShort]

Except in the case of 'Time Crash' every time the Doctor meets newer incarnations of himself, he forgets it directly after the encounter. Three Doctors, Five Doctors, Two Doctors, Day of The Doctor. (Not to mention audio stories like The Sirens of Time and Light at the End.) Only his oldest incarnation remembers. Obviously we can presume it would be the same for the Master, too.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

Man, I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING that you said about World Enough and Time. Although the minute I saw Mr. Razor I recognised him as the Master who simply hadn't shaved in a while. Then he pulled another successful deception and until the moment he started laughing behind Missy's back I thought he was just a hobo, but I couldn't understand why a hobo works at a hospital. Then it all made sense. Aside from how Missy doesn't remember the colony ship. I mean, sure, the Time Streams are out of sync so the John Simm Master is going to forget himself meeting Missy (just like in the day of the Doctor), but why should he also forget ever being on the ship? Anyway, I really hope we won't get a big ball of wibbly-wobbly disappointment like we did with Death in Heaven. I liked Dark Water but Death in Heaven (which, funnily enough, also has a black person who is acquainted with the Doctor become a Cyberman against their will) was crap aside from Cyber-Brig. BRING BACK CYBER-BRIG, MOFF!!!!

[@Reprodestruxion]

At least him being Russian Razer was kept quiet, oh and the return of Venusian aikido.

[@andreamiller3578]

Somehow I missed those spoilers, so i had the delicious fun of gradually realizing what was really going on.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I’m officially jealous.

[@codyw1]

Shall I tell you what I've liked this season? They've ditched that "to be continued" shit! Just straight from the cliffhanger to the theme like they always did!

[@ironwarmonger]

One thing about Razor, was it just be or what the character, up until the reveal, feel like a love letter to Babylon 5's Zathros? Because even his clothes reminded me of Zathros.

[@andrewhayden1075]

Mondasian cyberman voice freaks me out

[@AhsimNreiziev]

I think the explanation for Missy not remembering being on the ship before is the whole "Out-of-Sync Time Streams" thingamajig that is key to all multi-Doctor stories -- and would therefore be expected to also play a role in a multi-Master story. In case anyone is confused, this phenomenon was last encountered in _The Day of the Doctor_ when both the War Doctor and the Tenth Doctor asked _"I won't remember this, will I?"_.

[@hugoalynstephens9166]

I like the idea you have of the meddling with time. Memory has been played with countless times now and going down the errors in time idea could be a great way to explain the in-universe consequences of the Second Big Bang that happened back in the second part of the Series 5 finale. This was both an upset and unsettling episode- refreshing though and a different experience to that I had of Doomsday, Earthshock, Utopia or Blink which were episodes/stories I have each felt an unusually unique and uneasy experience to unlike the usual way I feel when watching the show.

[@CarlB_1962]

Click on like if you want the BBC to stop pretty much ruining stories with trailers.

[@madelinekoh8499]

That thing you wish for about companion deaths does happen to Rory

[@Reprodestruxion]

Yeah, man it happened. That director should direct Doctor Who forever.

[@Emme-Kappa]

really hope they nail the finale... this was so incredible.

[@DPS31762]

Just got to see the episode when BBCAmerica re-ran it before the finale. Great episode, among other things it was nice to see the Master's fondness for disguise again.

[@matthewgarrette2512]

wow you got me hyped up. I've been binge playing Injustice 2 so I haven't watched a lot of TV this week I'm going to watch this first thing in the morning. I've never seen you so excited. okay let's do this thing

[@chanceneck8072]

...And???

[@Peel420]

Yeah..... ..... and???

[@Gojirawars03]

*BILL. POTTS.* *LOCATING...* *BILL POTTS.* *I AM...* *BILL POTTS.*

[@captainconfused2631]

5:18 Rory was killed in that way, but Amy chose to, which sorta undermined it

[@wolf1066]

I'm thankful I didn't hear any of the spoilers so the Mondasian Cybermen and the return of John Simm's Master both took me off guard - and you're right: that slow piecing together of what's going on and the dawning realisation that you were about to see the birth of a horror from the past... that was bloody awesome!

[@IDPerson-]

I am very glad I hadn't read anything on that episode ahead of time. Well, I had read about the return of the master, but I meant the cyberman

[@Peel420]

The episode was awesome and I don't think I've come down from the high yet!! Your review echoes how I feel... you were all over the place lol. I loved it. As I've said previously, I really enjoy your reviews because even when an episode is not so good (or in your opinion not so good), you are enthusiastic and make me laugh. The only thing that could have made that episode perfect was, as you rightly say, if we hadn't known about the Master and the Mondasian Cybermen. However, it wasn't spoilt, it just didn't hit as hard as it could have. I too, am wavering between intense excitement for this weekend and nervousness that it won't deliver. Like you I've had a wish for a long time that they could surprise us with a regeneration and new Doctor reveal, but I don't think it could be possible. I don't know about the states, but over here in UK it's got to the stage of 'X', 'Y' or 'Z' was seen in Wales recently... could it be them? Lol. I try not to pay any attention because I'm a spoilerphobe and only take notice of 'official' news.... which doesn't necessarily keep me spoiler free!! I've actually been around since Doctor Who's beginnings in '63, so one of my earliest memories is of the original Mondasian Cybermen and William Hartnell's regeneration. These Cybermen are very very scary. Much scarier than the massive Cybermen of late (imo) and this story highlighted the creepiness of it all really well. I am a Dalek girl, but I think that throughout the 50 plus years of Who, the Cybermen have had better stories wound around them (on the whole). Anyway, after all that.... what I'm basically saying is... I agree with you lol. Roll on Saturday!!

[@carruthers97jc]

I agree - watching the episode, I understood how good it was but I didn't really feel it because we already knew about John Simm's Master and the Mondasian Cybermen. I envy the people who have only recently discovered Doctor Who because the impact of this episode without the spoilers will be incredible.

[@heatherrockwell9012]

That intro sums up every unspoiled reaction I've seen to this episode. I love it.

[@maldaror7097]

Does anyone remember Zathras? Because I think the Master does.

[@forrestalexander8179]

Tom Baker was required to come in at 2am for the 50th filming in order to keep his involvement secret. New Doctor will be the same.

[@WiloPolis03]

Best pre-finale since Heaven Sent ....oh wait

[@logansmith2703]

I'm glad I forgot he was going to be in this season. I really loved having the slow realization.

[@IDPerson-]

Wait... I must have somehow missed Missy calling Nardole and Bill Exposition and Comedic relief. Did Missy just break the forth wall?

[@wolfwing1]

I had three things spoiled, bill, cybermen and master. BUT the details I had missed thankfully on the last two, so that, "Wait....that headgear looks familuar." then OMG twin planet.....it can't be." and then yeah thats them :> Then I had heard about two masters, but I thought it meant missy regenerating into her next :> A weird thing that I hadn't caught on till 20 mins ago is...:> It was these cybermen that lead to the death of the original doctor, so his first regeneration in this set set off in an adventure dealing with them like last time.

[@andrewlamont9287]

can I just remind everyone of the photo on the doctors desk in episode 1? a pic of Susan from classic who, since this season seems to be revisiting some old stuff (like the mondasian cyber man) is there a chance she might show up in the finale? or maybe even next series like so I get reply's! I need to hear other peoples opinions

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I really don't think there's anything that's going to come of Susan's photo.

[@andrewlamont9287]

council of geeks in a way I was kind of right sure Susan didn't show up but the fact that the first doctor showed up, is something at least

[@chanceneck8072]

I wonder if Moffat would have come up with this brilliant idea of an episode, if Peter Capaldi hadn´t stated, that he loved the Mondassian Cyberman and wanted to see them again!...

[@CouncilofGeeks]

However this happened, I'm happy for it.

[@barry1369]

Apart from the beginning where Missy is like “Hello, I’m Doctor Who”, this episode is incredible!!!!!!!!!

[@WiloPolis03]

I was initially also disappointed in the second part, but after rewatching I would say it's at least just as good. Slowly turning Bill into a Cyberman, making the Doctor's best friend fail him, saying goodbye to Nardole, and having the Doctor fight a battle with the Cybermen is just brutal. Not much really makes me cry in media, but this one got pretty close. A fitting end to such an amazing series.

[@chanceneck8072]

WTAF??????? THAT WAS JOHN SIMM *THE WHOLE TIME?????* Dude, NO FUCKING WAY! There´s gotta be some actor with that hair.....

[@the0amazing0joe]

Missed the Mondas spoilers (but not the John Simm spoiler sigh) and yea... it was great :^) Actually didn't catch the twin planet comment until I saw the head-piece, then I put it all together so I spent the whole episode wondering what was going to happen to Bill. The reveal was so good specifically bc it was a cyberman reveal and "what's going to happen to Bill" reveal.

[@Imabassplayer2]

It blow me out of the world. I don't remember the last time Dr Who made me feel like this. Probably the Russel T Davies era gave me the same excitement for the last episode. This is Moffat's best finale by far (at this point before the last episode) I liked Hell Bent even though it was a bit messy and a lot going on. The reason for the intro was not a plot to show whats to come or a gimmick. Moffat wanted to grab people from the start. He wanted the person going out on Friday night grabbing there coat, walking to the door, opening the door and just before walking out they turn and see the opening shot. Then they stop and want to watch the episode. Dr Who fans know he is leaving so why not tease the regeneration. Keeps thing fresh

[@toddthesweatynerdguy1450]

It's not impossible to stop spoilers from being leaked for example Blair Witch (2016) was kept a secret from the start to the finish of it's entire production. Even the first audience to see the movie at 2016 Comic-Con were told the movie being shown to them was called the Woods during which audiences realized that the film was a sequel. That sequel Blair Witch. I think there may be a couple more examples but at the moment I am feeling lazy so one example will for me at the moment. I tried to look up how long it took to shoot the movie but I gave up after 20 minutes of searching for that info and like I said I'm feeling lazy, hey at least I'm honest.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

That example doesn't work though in comparison. Because the reason they were able to surprise everybody was because nobody knew that a new Blair Witch movie was even being made, so they didn't know to keep an eye out for it. If that'd been the case somebody might have figured it out sooner. With Doctor Who, we know the episodes are coming, we know the Doctor will be recast so people are combing for the information.

[@toddthesweatynerdguy1450]

That's very true and something I didn't consider. My hat off to you, thank you for being polite about it. Too many others would have insulted me at the same time and I appreciate how you didn't.

[@Lovemypirates11211]

I'm with you on starting with something from the end or middle and then showing the story from the beginning. I've seen this a lot this series. I saw something recently about writing that earned against taking a scene from the end or middle of the story and basically cutting and pasting and the beginning. I immediately thought of this series.

[@Reprodestruxion]

They went Tarantino in this

[@keithdick4965]

That is one this I missed with Dr who. Not know when the Doctor would regenerate. I started with the 9th DR and I knew nothing about regeneration. So when the DR regenerated into Tennants Dr I was shocked and confused. I never knew it was going to happen as the show was aired on SciFi at that time. Amd I Loved not knowing.

[@friendsofood-kindmediaprod4757]

best cyberman episode since earthshock. possibly the best cyberman episode ever. THE BEST MOFFAT HAS WRITEN!!!!! Amazing

[@captainconfused2631]

“The last time I got this excited about the second-to-last story was Heaven Sent” Of course it was, Heaven Sent was series 9 and this was series 10.

[@pipsdontlie3031]

What if Missy isn't actually the Master but instead thinks she is. That would explain why she doesn't remember this, as it never happened to her.

[@adorkability]

Like you, I would have loved to have been able to have gone into this episode without knowing about the cybermen and The Master. But I still enjoyed it quite a lot. Probably my favorite episode of the season.

[@smelkus]

If the space ship was affected by time dilation due to its proximity to a black hole why wasn't it affected by spagetification since if the differance in gravity is enough to spagetify a human then the differance in gravity would be much greater at the front and back of a 400 mile spaceship

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Because real physics only apply to the degree that it allows for a cool story point and no further.

[@TheWeepingDalek]

have you seen earthshock. classic 5th doctor episode. because i think that was the last time a companion died like you described.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I have, and that's pretty much the only time it's happened like that so far as I know.

[@meris8486]

If the premise for the episode was whether or not The Doctor could trust Missy then why not have it be her fault in some way that Bill gets shot.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Theory: Missy isn't really the Master. She's sort of his version of the Valyard, except instead of being the distillation of all of his evil she's the distillation of all of his insanity. He attempted to purge all of his insanity and she was the result. She honestly thinks she's the Master and has his memories but she's not really. The only issue with that is he talks to and about her like she really is his future self BUT that could've just been him humoring her for some reason. Maybe in addition to his insanity, she got all of his regenerations so he wants to capture her and find a way to get the regenerations back without taking the insanity back in too. Maybe there is some bit of tech the Mondos Cybermen have that he needs to build a machine for that or something.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Interesting theory.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

While it is extremely unfortunate that _we_ didn't get to experience neither the awesome comeback of Mondas and that will we never get a surprise regeneration, I think that all of us Whovians must do the next best thing: Make it a surprise for our children. When we show them Doctor Who episodes, we should _not_ show them any Next Time clips (for the modern series) and ask them to not view and DW content on the Internet until they're through with it so that every regeneration is a complete surprise and so that awesome mysteries like this one become actual mysteries. Anyone else feel that way?

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I'm in the process of introducing somebody to the show and I'll be eager to see their reactions to seeing these things for the first time.

[@Reprodestruxion]

Missy and Master spinoff please just like a Joker movie

[@alden5931]

Apparently it was Moffatt's kid that brought up the whole time dilation thing.

[@ukmediawarrior]

Looking at the comments here and on other reviews for this episode I'm seriously in the minority here ... but I didn't like it The genesis of the Cybermen has been established over the last 50 years of Doctor Who from when they first appeared in Tenth Planet with William Hartnell. We know how they came to be the way they are. This episode took that explanation and just gave a whole new genesis as if for the newbies to Doctor Who who don't know where the Cybermen came from. They could have just explained it, would have been quicker. Other than Missy stating the ship's from Mondas that's it, no other connection to that planet. They have basically rewritten classic Doctor Who cannon here. Originally Mondas was the twin planet of earth and got knocked out of our solar system. To survive the inhabitants started to replace body parts with machine parts and finally took away emotions altogether. Then they became a conquering society so they could 'reproduce'. See? The same story line as this episode. In here they have to replace their bodies with machine to survive the polluted air and to become strong to go above deck. The entire middle of this episode was boring to me and I think the reason was I knew where it was going. They spent the entire middle building to revealing these people are becoming Mondas Cybermen ... but we already knew that so it takes away any tension, we know what happening to Bill, what she is going to become. I agree though, I would have liked the BBC to have the guts to kill her off and shock everyone. I did think the huge hole in her chest was a little OTT though, lol. And I wouldn't have zoomed into her eye at the end to show the tear. Doing that showed she's still human inside the helmet. I would have had her say about waiting (oddly reminiscent of Amy waiting for the Doctor don't you think?), reach out a hand, then zoom enough to show the outer black eye hole and then a tear slipping down it without showing the human eye. I feel it would have been more impactful.

[@thestargateking]

I thought I should tell you incase you didn't know but the time flowing slower near a blackhole because of gravity is actually true, I'm not sure about the scale that the show has, but the ship is massive so I guess I give it a pass

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Yeah I know the very broad strokes of the theory, and since as I understand it the slowing would be exponential as you got closer then it's hard to say the scaling is that wildly off.

[@viinis939]

I didn't know the Master twist. So epic 😖

[@benmicek6829]

I liked it. So question... what did they call the beginning stages of the Mondas cyberman

[@chanceneck8072]

Still...: Why did the episode open with the Doctor regenerating all alone out of nowhere in the middle of fucking nowhere???

[@LordLOC]

He's not in the middle of nowhere (well he is, but logistics lol) he's actually at the south pole - which is where the Tenth Planet (an episode of some note lol) took place with the original Cybermen back in the classic who which not only introduced the Cybermen, but also the concept of regeneration to the series. So you know, callbacks etc. :)

[@chanceneck8072]

I get you. But you know that it´s the south pole from ... where? Exactly??? Just because it´s snowing?? Well I´d say fuck off for that! Because it can be snowing anywhere! It can be the south pole, it can be Alaska, it can be the north pole, it can be Canada, hell it can even be the Ood planet!! Before we get confirmation or a wider angle, I believe in nothing, you say!! :-)

[@codyw1]

I think people are assuming it's the setting of the 10th Planet because it's been leaked that David Bradley (who played William Hartnell in An Adventure in Space and Time) is in the Xmas special, most likely as the First Doctor.

[@fredjones2170]

I actually think these Mondasian Cybermen are in some ways better than either of the redesigns we got in New Who: Don’t get me wrong, the 2006 and 2012 designs certainly look cooler, but I think the original design best reflects how the Cybermen are humans who’ve replaced their humanity piece-by-piece. If they ever do another update to the current Cyberman design, I think it should still have some vestiges of organic parts, and not just look wholly robotic.

[@tomimpala]

Nahh, I think by the time the conversion therapy thing came up we'd know. And the master reveal was given away for me when his music came up when he met Bill.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Yeah, but even if you figure it out that early, wouldn't it have been great to realize it on your own? I kind of got to have that in Dark Water, because I'd totally forgotten that the Cybermen had been in early promotional stuff. So when the doors closed and it made their eye shape and the music cue kicked in I was alike "ooooooooooooooooh crap!" And it was awesome. And I wish I could have had that here.

[@tomimpala]

Aye, I know what you mean!

[@adrianmateo2831]

I will miss Missy so much!

[@gryffinclawgymgirls0911]

I didn't know he was coming when I watched it or the mondasian Cybermen were coming, I was completely blind and it was amazing

[@BreezerBigB]

Too true, not enough surprises these days

[@deanochannel]

Hopefully won't be a second time this series it'll cheat with teasing a regeneration but I highly doubt which is actually sad since I've loved Capaldi plus second time in his era of having a companion or friend turned into a Cybermen, first being Danny but both under very different circumstances of course but that is something

[@terris5988]

Quick comment on the "we need a companion to just leave...." I think Martha fits that bill (no pun intended.) She just wanted to "get out"

[@CouncilofGeeks]

She did. But the writers still brought her back.

[@IronSalamander8]

I enjoyed it. Not as much as you did but it was good. I wish Bill had lasted longer even if it was well played here. After so many companions that the universe seemed to revolve around (especially Clara), it was nice to get one that felt just like a normal person in challenging circumstances.

[@christopherleggett6662]

Any thoughts on Bill having on the same outfit she had on in The Pilot?

[@CouncilofGeeks]

No, because I hadn't noticed.

[@samuelbarber4154]

I want them to do a proper Genesis of the Cybermen storyline

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Blame modern technology and how advertising and TV works these days. Otherwise, best episode in ages.

[@doctorwhoarchive4640]

I wish I never new about the Modasian Cybermen or any leaks

[@ChildOfTheWilderness]

The show has been losing ratings over the years. Leaking this kind of thing is annoying, but it's the only way to get people to tune in more. Like when Davros came back, it would bring in old fans just to see him. But we knew he was coming back way in advance

[@liamwilliams6651]

Agree for the most part, still think the Mondasian Cybermen looked a bit hokey but it seems like an origin story or at least thats how I interpreted it so I forgive it, I actually prefer series 3 John Simm, would have loved if these things weren't spoiled cause they both would have been some shock, I still would have prefered they didn't announce these things cause even if leaks did happen they're still only leaks so they don't get to everyone and they could always be considered fake where as when BBC announces it you tend to find out much easier and its basically official so you can't even believe its fake.

[@jasond1500]

Wouldn't Rory fit a companion being killed off suddenly? He was basically killed from behind. Sure it was an angel so he lived in the past. But in present terms he was killed.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Yeah but it was like his fifth time being "killed." It kind of loses impact after that.

[@3l_Raro]

I'm from Mexico so I haven't seen the episode :'(

[@breadloaf415]

5:10 Didn't rory do this? Like the setup with the whole paradox thing was a sacrifice and Amy was definitely of her will, but Rory just straight up died, out of nowhere.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

He did... sort of. But then it got played up as Amy's moment immediately after.

[@breadloaf415]

Council of Geeks Rory was kinda pushed away as a companion, wasn't he?

[@CouncilofGeeks]

There's really no way around that since he was only ever there because of Amy.

[@nadiarey4196]

Dude, the death of a companion in a non-grandiose way. I so agree with that! Television in general needs to do this. ...And, well, Doctor Who might need to do this about letting a character stay dead too. I'm a huge fan of Moffat, I think we wouldn't have a Doctor Who as amazing as it is today without him, I think his dialogs are amazing and plots smarters than the 90% of television and he made one of those every few months and that's espectacular and GOD I'll miss him and I'm mad at the haters... but if I had to agree with the critiques in one aspect, yeah, it'd have to be about this point about not letting a (main) character stay dead. But seriously, though, I love Moffat. (I don't think I'll ever love a writer as much as I do Moffat today, to the point I talk about him, the author, more than I do the characters. This is a first for me.) And this episode? Moffat all the way.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I'm going to be doing my best and worst Moffat written episodes once the Christmas special airs, so I'll get to talk about him more then. But in broad strokes I usually like him as a show writer on a per episode basis. I'm a little more conflicted on him as a show runner.

[@nathanyou1899]

this story took a lot from big finishes spare parts (NOT A BAD THING!)

[@uscman]

Seeing John Simm back as The Master is kind of depressing seeing him without Tennant as The Doctor, for me.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I just hope they don't ruin it by coming up with some B.S. way to save Bill. To me having her come back from being a Cyberman would ruin them as a threat. It would be like, in "Star Trek" when Captain Picard came back from being a Borg. From then on it was always in the back of your mind that someone could be assimilated and brought back they lost their threat. I also doubt there's a believable way to save her.

[@caleb7551]

Well fuck

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@caleb7551 Yeah, I guess I saw that coming but then again we all should have, the pattern was pretty well established by then. :)

[@caleb7551]

@@LibraGamesUnlimited yep. For how much I love Steven Moffat, he just keeps bringing dead characters back and it really annoys me.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@caleb7551 Well, I saw an interview he did where he said that companions should never die, that it makes the Doctor look bad or something. He even said, if he had been in charge, he would have brought Adric back (during the classic series). It's one thing if you don't want to kill them off, that's fine, but you can't have it both ways. You can't clearly say "companions can't die" than constantly kill them off just to bring them back the next episode. That is the kind of thing that works, once. You do it more than once it becomes predictable and loses all its effect. What's the old saying, 'pick a lane'?

[@danielhenze8182]

I knew what was coming, but somehow I forgot so I was ecstatic

[@Companion92]

I so happy I missed the spoilers about the master before I watched this episode

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Lucky!

[@kristienwhitneyjohns2215]

I live in the uk, so as you can imagine all the reveals were spoilt by the BBC. This definitely ruined the experience regarding the reveals of the mondasian cybermen and the master because honestly, I would nit have caught that..

[@nathanyou1899]

I'm not too keen on the title they could have just called it Exodus

[@IDPerson-]

I am 6 seconds in and all I got to say is same. That was my reaction when I watched this one.

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

The internet ruins surprises.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

No BBC did this one themselves, it's in the freaking "Next time on Doctor Who" segment.

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

Council of Geeks well the sentiment is still true. As you said it was inevitable because someone would have leaked it.

[@MovieMagic515]

@@WolvesbaneNetwork Not true. Was the Master leaked for Series 12?

[@chanceneck8072]

So... "Conversion Theatre", right?? Nice way to remind people of the fact, that Doctor Who is British!... lol

[@baronvonbeans9887]

Is that cyberman wearing a gimp mask?